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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1135
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:33:00 -
[661] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Delta 749 wrote:
You keep using those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean
It would only be a double standard if I said you needed two tankers to take out a single player with AV and please point out where I said that and not that it should take one player to take out one player
Oh and since "Waaah isk cost" is something that gets trotted out Ill just say that all that isk cost buys you more health, more speed, more attack range, and resistance to most weapons with only 3 able to harm you in any practical sort of way and with two of those being specialized to only be effective on vehicles they damn well better actually be effective against them in a meaningful way, none of this "Herp derp they dropped my shields, Id better switch on my modules and drive away"
You know its funny, you guys freak out that swarms lock on and call it a crutch but then I look at all the bonuses tanks have while still retaining versatility while the swarm is good at one thing and one thing only and I have to wonder, who has the bigger crutch?
Swarms obviously, because they lock on. If you can't destroy tanks, you're doing it wrong. We should call you ostrich with all that time you spend with your head in the sand, also you should petition for dumb fire swarms since you cry about them so much Hell I would even sign that since if you give me direct fire I wont have to worry about them hitting the ground or rocks or walls and what have you and could get you to cry even more about them And since I know its coming because you also cry about guys on roof tops, if you were actually a decent tanker you would be shooting down dropships at the start of a match and then you wouldnt have to worry about them, hell if they are desperate to get up there you could be farming dropships for a match I know Ive done it myself a few times and no more worrying about forge gunners on rooftops Honestly Im surprised most tank drivers havent figured that out since even including the angle limitations on the turrets there are a lot of areas that let you angle up by driving on them
LOL You obviously have never been in a PC either. Don't talk to me about things you know nothing about. |
Templar 514
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:44:00 -
[662] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote: That just means that the Heavy needs fixing, not to give it one single crutch and ruin everyone else's fun.
My main issue with what that guy said was that he more-or-less desired for the Forge Gun to be nerfed into uselessness. I DO agree that heavies in general need fixing, but right now the biggest thing that makes them at least passable is the Forge Gun. Until I see anything regarding dropsuit rebalance, then I will continue to say "don't nerf Forge Gun, because then heavy=useless".
I'm hoping that 1.7/1.8 brings a much needed update to dropsuits in general (would like more variety in heavies to shoot at, since I'm AmarrSuitsForLife), and especially to heavies and our incredibly hardcore scoutbros, but until then. Yeah. Forges don't need a lot of "nerfing", so much as "tweaking".
Fizzer94 wrote:Just quoting the stupid part.
I didn't realize Heavies couldn't use ARs.
Just quoting the stupid part. I didn't think people thought AR+Heavy is a good idea. Hint: A medium frame anything will do that infinitely better. I also didn't think that people would be so daft as to believe I was speaking of all weapon classes, rather than the class-specific Heavy Weapons that no one but Heavies can carry. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
659
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:49:00 -
[663] - Quote
Templar 514 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote: That just means that the Heavy needs fixing, not to give it one single crutch and ruin everyone else's fun. My main issue with what that guy said was that he more-or-less desired for the Forge Gun to be nerfed into uselessness. I DO agree that heavies in general need fixing, but right now the biggest thing that makes them at least passable is the Forge Gun. Until I see anything regarding dropsuit rebalance, then I will continue to say "don't nerf Forge Gun, because then heavy=useless". I'm hoping that 1.7/1.8 brings a much needed update to dropsuits in general (would like more variety in heavies to shoot at, since I'm AmarrSuitsForLife), and especially to heavies and our incredibly hardcore scoutbros, but until then. Yeah. Forges don't need a lot of "nerfing", so much as "tweaking". Fizzer94 wrote:Just quoting the stupid part.
I didn't realize Heavies couldn't use ARs.
Just quoting the stupid part. I didn't think people thought AR+Heavy is a good idea. Hint: A medium frame anything will do that infinitely better. I also didn't think that people would be so daft as to believe I was speaking of all weapon classes, rather than the class-specific Heavy Weapons that no one but Heavies can carry.
The Forge Gun shouldnt be OP, just because the heavy isn't that great. It is OP by the way, for being so easy to use, it shouldn't be able to kill both Vehicles and Dropshots so efficiently. It needs to lose the splash damage.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
459
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:58:00 -
[664] - Quote
If people weren't using Logi suits before, they will be now. Remote Explosives are now the best and pretty much only viable way for Medium Frames to take down tanks and LAVs. Freedom MD with 3 damage mods gets a special mention, since it's not complete garbage against Infantry, although Flux nades are needed, and it's hard to get a good shot with those against a moving vehicle or being vulnerable in the open.
Swarms are absolute garbage, any tanker with a brain is not worried about them now. Militia Forge on a Militia Heavy is more effective then Proto swarms against vehicles, while being able to 1 shot Infantry, and that's a shame. AV Nade Damage nerf makes them barely viable as AV.
There is now no reason not to use ARs. Lasers are outclassed again, and MD aren't worth the hassle, needing elevation to be able to even compete with the AR RIGHT NOW. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1328
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Posted - 2013.10.29 05:04:00 -
[665] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Delta 749 wrote:
You keep using those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean
It would only be a double standard if I said you needed two tankers to take out a single player with AV and please point out where I said that and not that it should take one player to take out one player
Oh and since "Waaah isk cost" is something that gets trotted out Ill just say that all that isk cost buys you more health, more speed, more attack range, and resistance to most weapons with only 3 able to harm you in any practical sort of way and with two of those being specialized to only be effective on vehicles they damn well better actually be effective against them in a meaningful way, none of this "Herp derp they dropped my shields, Id better switch on my modules and drive away"
You know its funny, you guys freak out that swarms lock on and call it a crutch but then I look at all the bonuses tanks have while still retaining versatility while the swarm is good at one thing and one thing only and I have to wonder, who has the bigger crutch?
Our aim and hit detection plus rendering makes our range about the same, so no. Plus, the health is a non-factor when AV comes into play, in which many people has at least to adv. at this point. Plus, we lose most of our mobility for the speed, and we become giant targets, so that one doesn't count. ANd for CAldari HAV's, all you need is 3 fluxes and a breach MD, and it's gone, your're just not creative enough to think of that. There's lots more combo's that you can do too. Lastly, What bonuses do we get? WE risk several games worth of ISK for what? SO we can be the biggest and baddest things on the field. And that's what's happening. Bye bye AR514, hello Dust 514. The mixture era is about to start SOONtm, and it's all thanks to the Saint Wolfman. SUCK IT.  Prove your ranges are worse, pull up the stats of a blaster and compare its optimal and effective ranges to infantry weapons, you beat everything but sniper rifles forges and swarms, that and tanks hiding in the red line with rail guns kills your "We dont have better range" Speed is speed so it still counts even if you arent turning on a dime, grasp those straws Also read the word "practical" can a tank be taken out with grenades and a MD yes but its not practical due to how squishy a suit is and the range of the engagement, its like saying a normal guy can enter a body building competition, doable but not practical so there goes that counter As for all your last stuff it just sounds like a defense of the pay to win model to me, if thats what you want there are plenty of other games that will let you throw money at them to overcome your lack of ability, you wont even need 6 months of tears
Can't do that because like I said, the aiming... dammit my bad, tracking with the turrets is off, the sight is off at times by a slight margin, and hit detection makes it a closer than what it says for the optimal and effective. And therefore you don't because of said things. Plus that's only for blasters; missiles and rails have it worse, especially rails.
Mobility ain't about turning on dimes dipshit. It's about where you can go, which is pretty limited for a vehicle.
As for practicality of ways on taking down vehicles, yes, if it works a lot, and it's not overly difficult, then yea you could say that it's practical. Get on my level scrub, and learn to adapt. Oh wait, all you know how to do is ***** and moan to get your way 
Lastly, **** you. this **** has more skill then you. GO play COD if you want no vehicle presence.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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CharCharOdell
1370
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Posted - 2013.10.29 05:39:00 -
[666] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm nerf is once again, way too large, way too fast. I can see a damage nerf, but the lock-on nerf? That pretty much renders dropships invincible and non-removable, and the same goes for sniper tanks behind redlines. A dropship can't hurt you from such distance, why would you want to destroy it?
nope. better get ur own sniper tank, then :)
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Templar 514
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2013.10.29 05:42:00 -
[667] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:The Forge Gun shouldnt be OP, just because the heavy isn't that great. It is OP by the way, for being so easy to use, it shouldn't be able to kill both Vehicles and Dropshots so efficiently. It needs to lose the splash damage.
Look, I'm just going to start off by being upfront about this: I was a diehard, all-fatty-all-the-time type of guy in Chromosome, where it was incredibly expensive to be so bootylicious that you could carry Heavy weapons. Uprising comes along, and I pretty much go a mix of Amarr Assault and Amarr Logi, with just a little heavy thrown in in preparation for the eventual arrival of an Amarr heavy weapon. You know why? Because Assaults with ARs are cutting me down in my HMG's optimal range, where I *should* have the DPS and EHP advantage. Because of my still-undying hatred of the GAR, I have refused to spec into it, despite having two GAR BPOs in my inventory.
I didn't switch because I wanted to be that AR guy. I switched because I wanted to have a fighting chance again. Outrange me when I have my HMG? Fine, I accept that loss with dignity. Outnumber and surround me? I'll accept it, especially if I take one or two guys with me. But rush me point blank with an AR, and gun me down with impunity when I should have the DPS and EHP advantage? I call broken balance- I should not have to fit an AR to a fatsuit in order to be on equal terms in close quarters, because the HMG is supposed to fill that role for the heavy.
Yes, right now heavies are cheaper to run, and have ever-so-slightly more EHP than in Chrome, but ARs are still cutting us fatties down at point blank range. 99% of the time it's a medium frame that does it. HMGs are probably the worst weapon in the game (yes, even the PlasCan works better than the HMG, trust me, I use both), on one of the most brokenly bad suits in the game, to the point that the only other heavy weapon in the game makes being a Heavy actually useful to a team.
Forges are one of the few things where the description gives an accurate expectation of what you're going to get. It's described as more-or-less an anti-everything gun. I DO agree that Forge Guns need balancing work done, but I don't think that they are brokenly good.
For the most part, I'd say that Assault forges are a bit out of line- they are dealing more damage than the garden-variety charge-holding variant, in both direct and splash damage. I don't think that the actual splash damage values are too high- if anything I would say that doing the following would be a good way to begin iteration on Forge Gun balance:
Swap Forge Gun/AFG damage values
Reduce splash radius on regular/assault FGs [Breach Forges are already difficult enough to use, I have literally only been killed by a Breach FG ONCE, and I was in a tank to boot; I also have a single BreachFG kill to my name, because some people turn off their brains when they jump in a turret]
And then working from there. Also, WHY do you think Forges are OP? I mean, tower-sniping is pretty bad, but mostly it's AFGs that are out of wack. Keep in mind that most dedicated tower Forge snipers tend to rely on splash damage to get their kills, so reducing the radius is actually a good way to kill tower sniping with FGs- it becomes too difficult for the average splash-happy Forge sniper.
As an aside, I enjoy blapping people with the Forge Gun, but I also ALWAYS try to go for the direct hit, AND I dislike the AFG for doing such things. I also don't generally get onto high vantage points- partly due to laziness (I'd rather just stand here and blap dudes, since I can already see them), partly due to being a terrible derpship pilot (think I'm above a tower, get out, fall to ground and have said derpship land on top of me. True story.).
Yes, it's a wall of text. If you want a TL;DR, then here it is: Forge Guns need tweaking, not nerfing, heavies are brokenly bad, HMGs are brokenly nigh-useless, and until then I will continue to harvest tears when I blap dudes with my Forge from a ground level position.
As a final note, can you at least explain in *some* measure of detail why you think FGs are OP? |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
663
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Posted - 2013.10.29 06:11:00 -
[668] - Quote
My reasoning behind FGs being OP is that they only sacrifice very little ease of use for very high versatility. IMO if a weapon can kill anything in the game, and OHK people, it should be exceedingly hard to use.
I like to call this concept of making hard to use weapons better 'balancing for skill'.
The FG flies in the face of balancing for skill. It has one of the longest ranges in the game, does the most damage, and has perfect accuracy, and isn't really that hard to use at all.
The only downside of the FG is its charge and its limited Ammo supply, and the charge isn't even much of a downside because you can hold it.
It outperforms the Plasma Cannon in almost every way, despite being easier to use. It has a higher DPS, doesn't have projectile drop(or slow speed), has a faster fire rate and can fire more rounds before it has to reload(which is only barely longer than the Placons reload I might add).
Keep in mind that I don't want to nerf the FGs DPS. It needs it to be an effective AV weapon. What I want is for it to be much harder to use against infantry. In the same way the Placon is better at killing infantry than vehicles, I want the FG to be better at killing vehicles than infantry, by making it harder to use against infantry.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2877
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 06:18:00 -
[669] - Quote
Just an observation: four days since this thread was made, and it already has more pages of posts than the vehicle thread. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
663
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 06:21:00 -
[670] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Just an observation: four days since this thread was made, and it already has more pages of posts than the vehicle thread.
There are a lot more infantry than vehicle specialists. Also the swarm nerf is a huge deal I guess.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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JP Acuna
RoyalSquad514
25
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Posted - 2013.10.29 07:09:00 -
[671] - Quote
Templar 514 wrote:JP Acuna wrote:But I can't wait to see a Forgegun nerf. Why would you punish swarms so bad and leave that annoying thing alone? I mean, it's good against tanks, but too good against dropships. Plus, it can kill infantry!! Swarms cannot.
But WHAT ABOUT FORGEGUNS??? why not reduce their range or at least make a drastic (i mean drastic) damage reduction over distance? Just quoting the, IMO, relevant portions. Namely, a nerf to the already brokenly terrible heavy class. Seriously, as a part-time heavy, I am incredibly offended by your frothing desire to take the only useful and effective weapon that heavies currently have, and NERF INTO THE GROUND. You sir, are an atrocious disgrace, and I fervently hope that you are Forge Gunned at least 7 times in every single match you play from now until the end of New Eden. Which will coincide with the end of the world.
Heavies broken? HMG worse than Plasma Cannon? you sir are not a good heavy then.
Heavies are a nightmare at close quarters. There's a reason why i hate them. You accurately unload on them, switch to sidearm, unload, and they just keep walking towards you shooting that noisy bulky HMG without having to reload at any time because of their huge mag until you're dead. And that's when he's alone, when there are more guys you die earlier. There's a teamwork and a specific role to them, you can't expect to eat the bullets of three or four guys at the same time by yourself and get away with 200 WP just because you're a heavy (which sometimes even happens!). I hate it but i'm ok with that because they're the 'fats'. I tried it once and didn't work for me, so i'm not saying fats are OP, they just need to know how to do their thing and some actually do.
Despite of your qualms about assault forge guns, which i deeply respect, you seriously sound like you want your stuff to be OP.
How can it not be OP a weapon that you can snipe with, you can take vehicles down with, and that's not even tricky to use? Heavies are not even easy to take down with a single sniper, so they can be camping all the match.
You took me wrong: i don't want to nerf forgeguns into the ground, just hoped they get balanced with other weapons and vehicles, especially dropships.
But as i didn't like your attitude, i fervently hope to meet you in every single match from now on and claim at least 7 kills with a weapon that requires risk and real skill.
(With all due respect to serious forgegunners out there) |
dogmanpig
black market bank
23
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Posted - 2013.10.29 07:21:00 -
[672] - Quote
from one troll to forum community. HTFU
swarms still do 1320(proto) which still puts one AV guy able to kill a tank before running out of ammo w/o hives
as for av nades that is the normal ones the packed ones will 1500~ (proto) still putting them as highest alpha and DPS damage.
range nerf well they can't fix the rendering on vehicles... balance is less range on AV.
combat rifle= burst fire thats = to or less then assault rifle but more range
rail rifle = increased reaction gap so bad for CQC where that matters and high recoil means bad at range.
HTFU and stop complaining. |
Kira Lannister
Ancient Exiles
1695
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 07:59:00 -
[673] - Quote
dogmanpig wrote:from one troll to forum community. HTFU swarms still do 1320(proto) which still puts one AV guy able to kill a tank before running out of ammo w/o hives as for av nades that is the normal ones the packed ones will 1500~ (proto) still putting them as highest alpha and DPS damage. range nerf well they can't fix the rendering on vehicles... balance is less range on AV which they still gave them more range then rendering  combat rifle= burst fire thats = to or less then assault rifle but more range rail rifle = increased reaction gap so bad for CQC where that matters and high recoil means bad at range. HTFU and stop complaining.
I thought the assault variant of the combat rifle is 1200 rpm?
"The Ancient Templars will guard fearlessly the people, the land and the heavens of the empire."
Book of Exiles 1:3
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Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation
Top Men.
205
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:16:00 -
[674] - Quote
If the forgegun is nerfed i demand we rename the heavy to handicap. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
136
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:18:00 -
[675] - Quote
Easy fix to forge guns I either posted or read before on this forum.
The reticule should not turn red when aimed at dropsuits.
There, forge gun tower spammers and anti-infantry duties fixed.
BTW this is coming from someone who uses forge guns ALOT. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
663
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:26:00 -
[676] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Easy fix to forge guns I either posted or read before on this forum.
The reticule should not turn red when aimed at dropsuits.
There, forge gun tower spammers and anti-infantry duties fixed.
BTW this is coming from someone who uses forge guns ALOT.
Oh and the heavy has bigger problems than the forge gun being the only viable weapon. Those problem should be addressed, not covered up.
Do that and reduce splash diameter(or damage, reducing damage would make it an assist machine though) and the Forge Gun would be an actual skillshot weapon.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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dogmanpig
black market bank
23
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:44:00 -
[677] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:That link states 400 milliseconds... which is 0.4 seconds.
quote for LOLs
.1= tenths
.01= hundredths
.001= thousandths
" 4/1000ths of a second"
You owe me your first born daughter when she is 18.
You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way.
Level 7 1/3 Forum alt.
"Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
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dogmanpig
black market bank
23
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Posted - 2013.10.29 09:07:00 -
[678] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:dogmanpig wrote:from one troll to forum community. HTFU swarms still do 1320(proto) which still puts one AV guy able to kill a tank before running out of ammo w/o hives as for av nades that is the normal ones the packed ones will 1500~ (proto) still putting them as highest alpha and DPS damage. range nerf well they can't fix the rendering on vehicles... balance is less range on AV which they still gave them more range then rendering combat rifle= burst fire thats = to or less then assault rifle but more range rail rifle = increased reaction gap so bad for CQC where that matters and high recoil means bad at range. HTFU and stop complaining. I thought the assault variant of the combat rifle is 1200 rpm?
yea but did you look at the damage... proto level is still less then proto level AR and i didn't bring up the branches of combat rifle or rail.
You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way.
Level 7 1/3 Forum alt.
"Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
474
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Posted - 2013.10.29 13:47:00 -
[679] - Quote
dogmanpig wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:That link states 400 milliseconds... which is 0.4 seconds. quote for LOLs .1= tenths .01= hundredths .001= thousandths- that is one millisecond " about 300 to 400 milliseconds or 3/1000ths to 4/1000th" You owe me your first born daughter when she is 18. They will die from "nature causes" any time now with that kind of smarts. can't wait to see it on the news
Please do enlighten me as to how what I said was incorrect? The answer does in fact say 400 milliseconds first and 400 milliseconds is in fact 0.4 seconds (shocker, huh). |
ABadMutha13
Nihil-Obstat Mercs
General Tso's Alliance
63
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Posted - 2013.10.29 15:22:00 -
[680] - Quote
Summing up this entire thread quicklyGǪ.
Tanks get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô HAHAHHA we win we win, stewpid tanks!
Tankers GÇôWe donGÇÖt want much just a chance to play our class.
AVGÇÖs get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô WAAAAAAA not fair WAAAAAAAA, someone change my diaper WAAAAAAA
Tankers- I think this will balance everything out rather nicely.
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
460
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Posted - 2013.10.29 16:01:00 -
[681] - Quote
ABadMutha13 wrote:Summing up this entire thread quicklyGǪ.
Tanks get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô HAHAHHA we win we win, stewpid tanks!
Tankers GÇôWe donGÇÖt want much just a chance to play our class.
AVGÇÖs get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô WAAAAAAA not fair WAAAAAAAA, someone change my diaper WAAAAAAA
Tankers- I think this will balance everything out rather nicely.
More like
Tanker Uprising 1.1 = Tanks not worth it no one will run them, even though that's been proven false in PC and Pub matches.
Tankers Uprising 1.4 = Swarm supposed buff, Death of tanks, we quit even though we don't.
Tankers Uprising 1.7 = Who cares if it's not balanced, after all we've endured we deserve tank supremacy.
With alot of WAAAAAAAAAAA. More or less. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
669
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Posted - 2013.10.29 18:22:00 -
[682] - Quote
dogmanpig wrote:Krom Ganesh wrote:That link states 400 milliseconds... which is 0.4 seconds. quote for LOLs .1= tenths .01= hundredths .001= thousandths- that is one millisecond " about 300 to 400 milliseconds or 3/1000ths to 4/1000th" You owe me your first born daughter when she is 18. They will die from "nature causes" any time now with that kind of smarts. can't wait to see it on the news
Lrn2maths.
1 millisecond is 1/1000 of a second.
So, 400 milliseconds is 400/1000 of a second.
400/1000 ++ 100 = 4/10
4/10 = 0.4
So, 400 milliseconds = 0.4 seconds.
You did horrible math, then demanded to **** his daughter.
You sir are the worst kind of stupid. That was like 5th Grade Mathematics.
GET OFF MY FORUMS!
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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NICK PETRONE
SUICIDAL ARMY
3
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Posted - 2013.10.29 18:24:00 -
[683] - Quote
Well if you're going to nerf the swarms and the AV grenades you might as well nerf the proximity explosions too and make killing a tank an entire match excursion... Dumb idea. Tanks are still really hard to kill. Esp. when your going up against an experienced tanker with a missile launcher that can take you out in one blast. Not cool at all.
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Templar 514
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2013.10.29 21:53:00 -
[684] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:{snipped well-written Forge/PlasCan balance and general gudpost, because text limits}
I'll be honest, I *really* LIKE that you want Forges to be their own kind of thing, where it is a skillshot weapon. Incidentally, this is why I like the 1.6 patch notes- they indicate that Forges are getting a splash radius nerf, increasing the skillshot aspect of the weapon.
Now, I will say that I think Forge-vs-PlasCan balance is actually pretty good (IMHO)- but this has to do more with the limitations that Heavy weapons impose upon the player (only Heavy Frame/Sentinel suits, no equipment, glacial speed), while the PlasCan can be slapped on any suit whatsoever, and is still quite deadly- especially when benefiting from 2+ damage mods.
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Easy fix to forge guns I either posted or read before on this forum.
The reticule should not turn red when aimed at dropsuits.
There, forge gun tower spammers and anti-infantry duties fixed.
BTW this is coming from someone who uses forge guns ALOT.
Oh and the heavy has bigger problems than the forge gun being the only viable weapon. Those problem should be addressed, not covered up.
I disagree. I think that reducing splash radius (which will be in 1.6, see above devblog link), and a possible reduction in splash damage, is all that is necessary. While Forges have perfect accuracy, the reticle is the size of a barn and is actually kind of tricky to line up long range shots with, in my experience.
I do agree, however, that the Forge being the only viable heavy weapon is the LEAST of the heavy's problems, and I DEFINITELY agree that said problems should be addressed rather than covered up.
JP Acuna wrote:{snipped general stupidity about how heavies are "fine", even though he doesn't know jack about heavies}
I absolutely LOVE how players that have no idea what it's like to be heavy tell us heavybros that we're "bad heavies" since we lose to AR scrubs in pointblank shootouts while using HMGs /sarcasm. Guess what? Heavies are broken. HMGs are even more broken.
Did you know that the HMGs hit detection is actually so broken, that in order to get ANY hits you MUST have the incredibly-teeny-tiny center dot on target? I'm quite certain that you have no idea that that's the case. I also like the argument of "you need teamwork to make heavies work well", but then follow up with "a single sniper can't take down a heavy".
You want to kill some dork who's tower forging? GET A FREAKIN' BUDDY AND SYNC YOUR SNIPER FIRE. If a heavy needs teamwork in order to function (which Assaults do not, and I'll even put ISK on the fact that you're an Assault scrub who runs AR), then either shut up and deal, or complain to team/squad mates to help you, if you can't kill a heavy. Or drop an OB on them, that's always an option for squads.
For the record, no, I do not expect to soak fire from 3+ guys and still gun them down with impunity. I even said as much in a previous post, where I also talk about the problem where AR dorks are gunning us heavies down at point blank, and 1v1.
I also mentioned in said post that I will Forge snipe FROM THE GROUND. I don't sit on towers and try to Forge snipe people- mostly because I paradoxically find it difficult to blap people from such incredibly high vantage points, and the total lack of zoom the Forge has doesn't help.
SO, to recap: No, I don't want heavies to be OP. Yes, they are brokenly bad. Yes, HMGs are worse off than PlasCans (at least you can HIT people with PlasCans, instead of having imaginary bullet cone of fluffy tickles with center-bullet-hose-dot). No, Forges are not uncounterable, you're simply too lazy.
NICK PETRONE wrote:Well if you're going to nerf the swarms and the AV grenades you might as well nerf the proximity explosions too and make killing a tank an entire match excursion... Dumb idea. Tanks are still really hard to kill. Esp. when your going up against an experienced tanker with a missile launcher that can take you out in one blast. Not cool at all.
I like how people don't read the Vehicle changes, or how the AV changes are only coming in 1.7 WHEN VEHICLE CHANGES GO LIVE /sarcasm.
For the record, Proxy explosives are already bad, so nerfing them is unnecessary. Also, current Large Missile Turrets are incredibly unpredictable, and therefore unreliable. Also also, READ THE OP BETTER. Seriously. New Rifles+rifle changes are coming in 1.7, along with vehicle and AV changes. Pretty much says it on the tin. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1333
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Posted - 2013.10.29 22:47:00 -
[685] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:ABadMutha13 wrote:Summing up this entire thread quicklyGǪ.
Tanks get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô HAHAHHA we win we win, stewpid tanks!
Tankers GÇôWe donGÇÖt want much just a chance to play our class.
AVGÇÖs get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô WAAAAAAA not fair WAAAAAAAA, someone change my diaper WAAAAAAA
Tankers- I think this will balance everything out rather nicely.
More like Tanker Uprising 1.1 = Tanks not worth it no one will run them, even though that's been proven false in PC and Pub matches. Tankers Uprising 1.4 = Swarm supposed buff, Death of tanks, we quit even though we don't. Tankers Uprising 1.7 = Who cares if it's not balanced, after all we've endured we deserve tank supremacy. With alot of WAAAAAAAAAAA. More or less.
Pretty sure the best guys said we're not quitting.... Also, yes, there has been hardly any HAV's in PC as far as I've seen. Only good/really good pilots have been using them, or bluedots who don't know better.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
314
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 23:43:00 -
[686] - Quote
If explosive AV is getting nerfed atleast buff RE to stick to vehicles along with a damage up |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
673
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 23:58:00 -
[687] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:If explosive AV is getting nerfed atleast buff RE to stick to vehicles along with a damage up
REs do plenty of damage. If you want vehicles to die as quickly as they do in BF, then vehicle should get coaxial blasters and be able to destroy cover and buildings.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
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Jakar Umbra
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
337
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 03:38:00 -
[688] - Quote
Since I generally refuse to read through 34 pages worth of posts, I'm curious as to if anyone brought up the fact that when the map sizes and ranges increase, unless CCP builds all the maps with structures spaced as they do now, which is unlikely for the sake of mixing it up, these weapon ranges may have to change again.
Every now and then I read a comment on the internet and then I realise something very important...
We're boned...
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General John Ripper
MoIden Heath PoIice Department
EoN.
11331
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 04:47:00 -
[689] - Quote
bump
Level 5 Forum Warrior Prof 5
Founder of the Forum Warrior Club
King of Tacos
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Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
444
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 04:54:00 -
[690] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:thank god i stopped wasting sp in swarms after the last change. not 1 but a double nerf into oblivion. can i have my sp back so i can put into something that is actually going to work double standerd, tanks don't get respec, you AV don't get respec. "deal with it"
A Double Standard is applying different a set of values on various groups. For ADAM-OF-EVE's statement to be a Double Standard he would have had to try denying the possibility of repecs for pilots.
Godin Thekiller wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:
snip
snip PLC is obviously not getting the nerf bat, and they have to nerf the FG, otherwise it will be too strong compared to the swarm, plus it can still snipe easily. I bet you now, it's getting one.\ EDIT: My bad, PLC isn't, as it's already good enough other than a few things like the projectile speed.
Medium Frames with stacked Light Complex Damage modifiers already made swarms a far better anti-vehicle weapon than forge guns. In of itself toning down one item is not a viable reason to tone down another item.
Any re-balancing on Forge Guns should happen if testing shows them to have a broken advantage with some of the vehicle changes. Which in my opinion will have to happen to some degree if the regen-tanking aspect on vehicles is nerfed. As a member of the Forge Gunner Master Race I can say the constant regeneration of shields with their damage advantage after the last Hybrid-Rail damage-type nerf is significant. Not as much as the armor reppers which made it possible for a tank to duck and soon after pop back out healthy again or in some cases remain out in the open.
Since both of those tanking aspects are being reduced it wouldn't be surprising if in their testing some kind of direct damage nerf was applied to Forge Guns.
My hope would be more of a re-balance since the class of weapon was already drastically altered when ground vehicles got the speed boost. The 3.5 second base time was tricky enough when dealing with someone trying to make street pizza, it forced me into using assault forge guns. With any reduction in damage at the very least some kind of muzzle velocity increase or match to other rails would be nice.
With regards to the game changes. Bring it, experimentation is win. Any unforscene imbalance can always be patched later.
"She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
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