My feedback on this is that the game is virtually unplayable for infantry players (i.e. 90%+ of the playerbase).

The expectation was something like a 5% or at most 10% nerf to AV. I wouldn't have liked that, as I think the current tank/infantry balance is good (I see tanks going 40+/0 frequently in pubs, and good tankers are the most valuable asset in PC), but I could have lived with it. 33% nerf to damage for swarms and 31% for AV nades (at PRO) is just ridiculous. Add to that the 56% nerf to swarm launcher range and it is clear that the intention is to make that weapon (the primary AV weapon) unusable.

Do you guys have such short memories that you can't remember the indestructible tanks in beta? Because that's what you will go back to with these numbers.

Looks like I'm late to this party....as usual.

Anyway please CCP..consider this.....the health of logi lavs and HAVs. How could you put the hammer on AV nades and SL lock on distance? A LAV will be able to simply drive out of range before we will be able to lock on it. Even if we get one shot on it...logi lavs will eat that proto swarm launcher and keep it moving. Packed AV nades were a joke against lavs (especially logi lavs)...now you're making the proto av nade weaker than a current packed AV nade?? Where is the sense in that? I need you guys to play this game when you guys are considering nerfing things.

Have you guys played this game where a tank just sits on a hill (that you guys allow because of the design of these maps) and rails down on objectives? How will we be able to scare him off of the redline now? Now, you're making it so only heavies can attack vehicles...but what if there aren't any in the game? We will just have to die aimlessly then, huh?

I'd rather you give the tanks more health or more effective modules for survivability then to remove our only ways to defend ourselves. I mean, seriously.....proto AV nades 1000hp??? What will that do for tanks and lavs with armor and shield resistance? Some logi lavs still had shields after 3 Lai Dai Packed nades hit them....how will we defend ourselves against them now?

This is the only game where you have to go AV OR Assault. AV nades are going to be a joke against a good tank now and SLs just the same. But for assault class, the SL is our best defense and we can't even use a SL with our primary weapon....which leaves us vulnerable to infantry. It will require 3 or 4 assaults at the same time to take a tank out...and now, all the tanks have to do is run a few meters.

This is another bad idea, CCP...horrible, in fact. You guys don't ever compromise...it is always one extreme or the other. And that is terrible practice as far as balancing a game is concerned.

I lol at all these guys crying about their easy mode swarms getting nerfed. Being the easiest AV weapon to use, they should also do the least damage. Balance.

They lock on.They could do even less damage and still be balanced.

16. Tanks cant run

yip 175m is well beyond the effective range on any blaster, if you are attacking blaster tanks closer than 50 m your doing it wrong and if your targeting any rail or missile tank beyond 100 m your doing it wrong.

touching AV is a big mistake, CCP Wolfman

I never got why the swarm launchers did 2.3x more damage than the plasma cannon which takes skill to use while you could train a monkey to fire swarm launchers.

Finally things are even, Stupid Caldari weapons.

Looks like I'm late to this party....as usual.

Anyway please CCP..consider this.....the health of logi lavs and HAVs. How could you put the hammer on AV nades and SL lock on distance? A LAV will be able to simply drive out of range before we will be able to lock on it. Even if we get one shot on it...logi lavs will eat that proto swarm launcher and keep it moving. Packed AV nades were a joke against lavs (especially logi lavs)...now you're making the proto av nade weaker than a current packed AV nade?? Where is the sense in that? I need you guys to play this game when you guys are considering nerfing things.

Have you guys played this game where a tank just sits on a hill (that you guys allow because of the design of these maps) and rails down on objectives? How will we be able to scare him off of the redline now? Now, you're making it so only heavies can attack vehicles...but what if there aren't any in the game? We will just have to die aimlessly then, huh?

I'd rather you give the tanks more health or more effective modules for survivability then to remove our only ways to defend ourselves. I mean, seriously.....proto AV nades 1000hp??? What will that do for tanks and lavs with armor and shield resistance? Some logi lavs still had shields after 3 Lai Dai Packed nades hit them....how will we defend ourselves against them now?

This is the only game where you have to go AV OR Assault. AV nades are going to be a joke against a good tank now and SLs just the same. But for assault class, the SL is our best defense and we can't even use a SL with our primary weapon....which leaves us vulnerable to infantry. It will require 3 or 4 assaults at the same time to take a tank out...and now, all the tanks have to do is run a few meters.

This is another bad idea, CCP...horrible, in fact. You guys don't ever compromise...it is always one extreme or the other. And that is terrible practice as far as balancing a game is concerned.

Would recalling the tank, then calling in a new one reset the ammo count?

If yes, what is stopping the tanker from hightailing an empty tank to his redline and replenishing the ammo that way?

This is a team based game but you dont need team work to drive a tank or to increase its offensive ability or defensive ability in anyway, please explain how "This is team based" holds up under that?
And since the obvious thing to mention is small turrets Ill counter that right now, small turrets will be removable which is something many tank drivers have been asking for and is the first thing many plan to remove thus negating even the illusion of a good tank requiring teamwork to operate

touching AV is a big mistake, CCP Wolfman

I attack tanks closer than 50m all the time. Tankers never use 3rd person, so if you come up behind them they don't know you're there unless you get scanned. Pop 3 advanced AV grenades on him once his hardeners are down and follow up with a swarm, and they start running for cover. As long as you've picked an ambush location that doesn't have cover nearby he's toast, thanks to the nearly infinite lock range.

I kill madrugars like this several times a week...with a militia swarm launcher.

All the QQ from the duvolle AR users who are upset about their favorite weapon not being the best at all ranges is pure gold. Yeah...you skilled into a close range weapon. You can't just run straight across a field anymore like you're some kind of god, big deal. Learn a thing or two from the shotgun users and get close to the rail rifle guy, he won't stand a chance.

Well the swarm launcher Nerf and AV Nerf... It will be just like in the beta with 4 tanks and now assault drop-ships to deal with too... seems you want to have the actual infantry removed from game. With no real way to counteract these. That is without everyone in tanks and drop-ships... Sounds like a game called EVE... where is this FPS heading...


Well i guess now we will be wearing forge guns... Till they get nerfed....

As a proto swarm user I find that the proposed changes are a joke and is only a gift to all users of vehicles. I have seen the damage cut from 350 per missile to 330, the removal of dumb-fireing & the internal magazine cut to 3 flights. It is shear stupidity to cut the range of an anti-armour missile launcher. swarm lanuncher already have to ambush Hav's as their guns have greater range and damage. You should try to copy current anti-armour systems which have better range and damage potential than in game weapons.

Yet your double standards are that it shouldn't take teamwork to destroy a tank.

Swarm nerf is once again, way too large, way too fast. I can see a damage nerf, but the lock-on nerf? That pretty much renders dropships invincible and non-removable, and the same goes for sniper tanks behind redlines.

But I can't wait to see a Forgegun nerf. Why would you punish swarms so bad and leave that annoying thing alone? I mean, it's good against tanks, but too good against dropships. Plus, it can kill infantry!! Swarms cannot.

But WHAT ABOUT FORGEGUNS??? why not reduce their range or at least make a drastic (i mean drastic) damage reduction over distance?

You keep using those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean
It would only be a double standard if I said you needed two tankers to take out a single player with AV and please point out where I said that and not that it should take one player to take out one player

Oh and since "Waaah isk cost" is something that gets trotted out Ill just say that all that isk cost buys you more health, more speed, more attack range, and resistance to most weapons with only 3 able to harm you in any practical sort of way and with two of those being specialized to only be effective on vehicles they damn well better actually be effective against them in a meaningful way, none of this "Herp derp they dropped my shields, Id better switch on my modules and drive away"

You know its funny, you guys freak out that swarms lock on and call it a crutch but then I look at all the bonuses tanks have while still retaining versatility while the swarm is good at one thing and one thing only and I have to wonder, who has the bigger crutch?

You keep using those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean
It would only be a double standard if I said you needed two tankers to take out a single player with AV and please point out where I said that and not that it should take one player to take out one player

Oh and since "Waaah isk cost" is something that gets trotted out Ill just say that all that isk cost buys you more health, more speed, more attack range, and resistance to most weapons with only 3 able to harm you in any practical sort of way and with two of those being specialized to only be effective on vehicles they damn well better actually be effective against them in a meaningful way, none of this "Herp derp they dropped my shields, Id better switch on my modules and drive away"

You know its funny, you guys freak out that swarms lock on and call it a crutch but then I look at all the bonuses tanks have while still retaining versatility while the swarm is good at one thing and one thing only and I have to wonder, who has the bigger crutch?

Just quoting the, IMO, relevant portions. Namely, a nerf to the already brokenly terrible heavy class. Seriously, as a part-time heavy, I am incredibly offended by your frothing desire to take the only useful and effective weapon that heavies currently have, and NERF INTO THE GROUND.

You sir, are an atrocious disgrace, and I fervently hope that you are Forge Gunned at least 7 times in every single match you play from now until the end of New Eden. Which will coincide with the end of the world.

New weapons are of course welcome.I just hope my ARs aren't being touched.
I use all 4 types and im not interested in getting Caldari fashionable railthing. You guys better wait for more variations of these new weapons to come instead of wanting Gallente AR types removed.

But I can't wait to see a Forgegun nerf. Why would you punish swarms so bad and leave that annoying thing alone? I mean, it's good against tanks, but too good against dropships. Plus, it can kill infantry!! Swarms cannot.

I can understand perfectly the swarm nerf tho. It's kinda made for dropships, since LAVs can outrun them easily by using terrain to their advantage, and Tanks are easier to aim at so there's no need for a lock-on against them.
You can't shoot from a dropship from a very long distance, so there's a point in reducing the lock-on range in swarms.
But WHAT ABOUT FORGEGUNS??? why not reduce their range or at least make a drastic (i mean drastic) damage reduction over distance?

Our aim and hit detection plus rendering makes our range about the same, so no. Plus, the health is a non-factor when AV comes into play, in which many people has at least to adv. at this point. Plus, we lose most of our mobility for the speed, and we become giant targets, so that one doesn't count. ANd for CAldari HAV's, all you need is 3 fluxes and a breach MD, and it's gone, your're just not creative enough to think of that. There's lots more combo's that you can do too. Lastly, What bonuses do we get? WE risk several games worth of ISK for what? SO we can be the biggest and baddest things on the field. And that's what's happening. Bye bye AR514, hello Dust 514. The mixture era is about to start SOONtm, and it's all thanks to the Saint Wolfman. SUCK IT.

Swarms obviously, because they lock on.

If you can't destroy tanks, you're doing it wrong.

the only useful and effective weapon that heavies currently have

Prove your ranges are worse, pull up the stats of a blaster and compare its optimal and effective ranges to infantry weapons, you beat everything but sniper rifles forges and swarms, that and tanks hiding in the red line with rail guns kills your "We dont have better range"
Speed is speed so it still counts even if you arent turning on a dime, grasp those straws
Also read the word "practical" can a tank be taken out with grenades and a MD yes but its not practical due to how squishy a suit is and the range of the engagement, its like saying a normal guy can enter a body building competition, doable but not practical so there goes that counter

As for all your last stuff it just sounds like a defense of the pay to win model to me, if thats what you want there are plenty of other games that will let you throw money at them to overcome your lack of ability, you wont even need 6 months of tears