Moar swarm buffs plz, tanks are OP

I'm not saying tanks are OP. I'm saying that they would become OP

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

---

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

---

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

Moar swarm buffs plz, tanks are OP

It brings me a small level of comfort knowing that the best tankers STILL deal with this idiotic **** that has completely shut me out of tanking till the respec.

I float at around 100,000 ISK most days because I try to make tanks work without max skills (close, but not maxed yet). I've had people donate 5-10 million ISK to me, only to watch it evaporate in a day or two as I try and make this work. It's exactly the same as my experience with Dropships when Uprising launched. (don't get me wrong, a good number of my deaths are certainly my fault, though more than half are from imbalance and glitchy mechanics)

If you aren't already maxed out in vehicles, there isn't much point in calling anything other than an LLAV in, and that's just assuming you want to troll around, maybe chase a tank if you're lucky. It's infuriating and discouraging knowing that I wouldn't have any ISK problems if I'd just proto stomp in my infantry gear, but it's so ******* boring.

I need this respec. Every point is going into vehicles, and if vehicles aren't properly balanced at that time, I will quit for a few months and just sit on my vehicle skills till they're worth a ******* damn.

AV is supposed to be buffer damage to assist your allied armor in taking out enemy tanks.

Sorry that you want to camp on a tower spamming the right trigger thinking you're good.

I like how people say that the swarms are fire and forget so they shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Well then give me a nice dumb fire AV weapon (Plasma Cannon is a joke. I would also be able to defend myself). I would like it better that way anyways (I hate swarms)

I like how people say that the swarms are fire and forget so they shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Well then give me a nice dumb fire AV weapon (Plasma Cannon is a joke. I would also be able to defend myself). I would like it better that way anyways (I hate swarms)

Reading comprehension: 0

You did read the part where I said that long ranges with swarms are not good for effectively using AV right?

AV is supposed to be used for ANTI--VEHICLE. Where does the description does it say that it's main purpose is to help allied tanks?

Attim I was starting to like you.... then this....

Auto Locking double DPS weapons that are fire and forget do not deserve to be, nor should have the capability to solo HAV. We need to reach a point of balance where players actually want to deploy tanks to the map, this way we get the fights that we see in trailers.....

However as you and many others would have it. AV dominates the map with no downsides nor need to leave the red line granting free 150 + 50 WP at regular intervals for doing nothing.

Your 500K SP, and 300K ISK investment is denying dynamic gameplay and destroying 10+ Million SP, and destroying 1-2 Million SP vehicles with too much ease.

Swarm Lock time needs an increase, fire rate needs to remain the same, with swarms not making 180- degree turns and able to be unlocked by terrain and such.

I think what you are looking for is called a Forge Gun.

Edit... this original post is bad. Let them buff tanks and dropships. Lets see how it goes.. FFS they have been relatively underpowered for a looong time. Give them something to look forward to and changes can be a good thing. Right now it is not a big challenge to take a tank out of the equation either by blowing it up or making it run for the hills.

Reading comprehension: 0

You did read the part where I said that long ranges with swarms are not good for effectively using AV right?

AV is supposed to be used for ANTI--VEHICLE. Where does the description does it say that it's main purpose is to help allied tanks?

Reading comprehension: 0

You did read the part where I said that long ranges with swarms are not good for effectively using AV right?

AV is supposed to be used for ANTI--VEHICLE. Where does the description does it say that it's main purpose is to help allied tanks?

Reading comprehension: 0

You did read the part where I said that long ranges with swarms are not good for effectively using AV right?

AV is supposed to be used for ANTI--VEHICLE. Where does the description does it say that it's main purpose is to help allied tanks?

CCP wants Vehicles to kill vehicles.

This means that AV is a suppression tactic. Run solo, you will be suppressing. If you want to kill vehicles with AV, you'll need to coordinate.

Tankers actually use far more skill than AV will ever have to. I'd say pilots too, but they die too quick for their skill to be relevant. As someone who owns prototype AV and plenty of vehicles I can safely say that AV as is takes extremely little skill. If you work as a squad, it basically requires no skill.

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

CCP wants Vehicles to kill vehicles.

hang on... let me just... there we go brain is successfully unplugged. I think I might be on your level now...

so, AV call it 50k suit should be able to solo a 1m tank.

"tanks shouldn't be balanced around price!"

right, so a tank should cost as much as a dropsuit?

"long range swarms are easy to avoid"

and they are also invisible, didn't know swarms had cloaking devices did you?

EDIT: bolding for better visibility... maybe we should bold swarms.

LOL

CCP doesn't know what they want half the time ... how you can claim to know just makes me laugh !

AV does require pretty much no skill but that isn't my fault. If it was my choice I would have an RPG style AV weapon instead of swarms but of course the only AV weapon that's kind of like that is the most underpowered weapon this game has (Plasma Cannon).

1. No downside are you high. The only defense I have is a fking SMG with a 15m optimal range. Any AR user can kill me with little to no effort

2. 500k SP investment? You must be forgetting that to be effective at AV you first have to have at least advanced suits, complex damage mods, shield and/or armor modules so you don't die instantly, and have at least advanced swarms (Standard ones are shit

3. You guys can redline snipe why can't we redline AV?

I know it's been said that they want vehicle vs vehicle combat, I'm not in the mood to go hunting though.

Just saying that AV is too strong and only very delusional players think otherwise. If people wanted balance they would want vehicles to be built around fighting vehicles, that way they don't **** infantry and infantry don't **** them, and everyone has a more even gaming experience.

But no, people want to park on towers and feel like Zeus.

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

DUST is trying to combine the 2 into balanced gameplay for everyone, that means HAVs that can't sit there annihilating infantry, infantry that can't instakill vehicles, and AV that doesn't completely gimp infantry against infantry. Not an easy balance to achieve, but they're working on a new model for it ... wait and see how it works.

Arn't you that bad tanker that I killed twice with my assault dropship? Yes you are...... who jumps out their tank to fire swarms at a dropship... lolz

That is pathetic, no true tanker would do that. Have some respect for your machine Atiim.

1. No downside are you high. The only defense I have is a fking SMG with a 15m optimal range. Any AR user can kill me with little to no effort

2. 500k SP investment? You must be forgetting that to be effective at AV you first have to have at least advanced suits, complex damage mods, shield and/or armor modules so you don't die instantly, and have at least advanced swarms (Standard ones are shit

3. You guys can redline snipe why can't we redline AV?

1.) Hardly. Your argument lacks substance on this one. That's like saying. I use and ScR, but and AR user can kill me at any time. I use an HMG, but an AR user can kill me at any time. But what you not taking into account are the benefits of infantry vs a vehicle, in your case the capacity to easily traverse complex terrain features and make use of the hard cover it provides.

2.) Yup but do your dropsuits at standard level cost 200K ISK a pop, do your turrets or weapons cost you 500K Isk to be effective. No it does not. You can field 5-10 suits against one tank that I can field.

3.) Redline snipers are ******* cowards and should not be able to shoot in the Red Line. End of.

And the bad thing is, its on video True Adamance, if you want to see it, go to CEOPyrex's channel and watch kicking dust 2.57, after he jumped out we killed him and blew up his unattended tank, we costed him some good isk :)

You got Atiim?

Props to you!

Please correct me If I am wrong, but I am seeing a majority of players who complain about AV hate swarms, and don't get me wrong they really are kind of a stupid weapon, but if this is the case then this discussion is going All wrong.

If forge guns are deemed acceptable or at least not "game breaking" and AV mades are fine, then why don't we talk about only the crux of the issue. Swarms suck, they take no skill to deal a huge chunk of damage.

Decrease damage rate and level of target tracking, increase clip size and ammo count. Is this not a solution?

1. Ok so since I can navigate better then you that instantly makes my argument invalid even though I have pretty much no defense against other infantry. At least you can kill both infantry and vehicles while I'm limited to one or the other unless I want to get a heavy suit just for a forge gun in which then my navigation abilities are limited by quite a bit. Lets see you try and defend yourself from an hmg, AR, ScR, shotgun, or really any primary weapon. Hell even the plasma cannon has a slight advantage over the SMG thanks to the range you can shoot people from with that thing.

2. No but my standard dropsuits die about 10 times faster then your tank does so yea (Also it's not like infantry AV use standard gear. The lowest tier gear you'll see any infantry AV use is advanced gear which still dies 6 times faster then your tank).

3. I agree with you on this one (For both tanks and infantry)

Sarcasm? :/ can't tell, otherwise thank you. Got him twice.

Will agree somewhat it 1 and 3. But 2 is a big ******* no.

One 1 It means you can make use of internal, or vertical coiver both are things tanks cannot deal with, that inherently give you a very distinct advantage. You under estimate the SMG greatly. Though you do as as previous poster mentioned skill into the infantry tree with AV being a sub class. HAV are a full class, we have no other options like you guys do, who can turn around and pull a GEK at the drop of a hat.

Most tankers are just bad players who cant shoot a weapon so decided to play tankemsmashem. The few good players who skilled into tanks make them work and are successful and profitable. they utilize teamwork and communication every match they bring in a tank, avoid scenarios on the battlefield that would put them at a disadvantage, and they play within their means.

The rest of the tankers come on the forums and cry, or they are broke.

Forge gunning from the tower is awesome, worth while, and gives me lots of kills, war points, isk, and helps my team win.

What game are you playing? lol

You sound like you know **** all about tankers. The best are on here telling people about how AV is ridiculous. I have met 3 people who could utterly best me in HAV combat.

One is ST Evilsbitch, one is Void Echo, the other is some Samurai guy.

Everyone else has exchanged tanks in combat with me.

I don't fear to fight tanks, the one thing I have to is the ******* **** with Swarms or forges sitting on a hill outside my render range the terrifies me, and that is the one weapon AVers have on us that we cannot get over.

Makes fun of bad players

Admits to using low skill high reward tactics

Its ironic, isnt it! lol

Dont hate the player, hate the game son.

The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!)

When there is an AV outside of your render range what commands do you give to the rest of your squad? Start there... this is a team sport.. sport.

I've still never seen anyone come up with a reasonable answer to this.

I just have a quick question here about the whole tank vs AV debate, and let me preface it by saying that I would love for it to be balanced completely. I have also never messed with driving a tank and have my swarm skill up to level 3. My perspective for this is coming from playing pub matches as well, so don't apply it to PC since that is quite different.

In my experience, running around with adv swarms with two adv damage mods is still relatively useless against most tanks that I would come across on the battlefield. They either just don't care that I'm there or they scurry away and I can't do anything about it. Again I have not used tanks and perhaps it does take an immense amount of skill to drive a tank at high speeds back into the hills. I rarely even pull out my swarms since they are so ineffective at destroying tanks, the best that I can usually hope for is just to bother the tanker enough that he just runs away and recalls out of fear that he MIGHT lose his tank.

The problems in my experience from an infantry perspective are as follows:
-Tanks are just too fast to be able to destroy. I can get their health down but they can always get away before I can kill them.
-Tanks are too expensive for what they provide. Tank drivers are too worried about losing their precious tanks and therefore behave quite cautiously/selfishly rather than helping their team. On the flip side using price as an argument is pretty ridiculous as well since just because a proto AV fit only costs 200k they are still a lot more likely to get killed trying to kill a tank since they are giving up their anti-personnel capabilities. Despite all of the whining, AV isn't necessarily a bargain compared to tanking.
-Recalling a vehicle is a ridiculous mechanic. I don't think that it should be removed completely, but it should be a much more high risk proposition than it currently is. It should involve and RDV coming down to slowly pick it up or something. As it is now every time a tank gets low they just hurry away and recall and don't have to worry about a thing (other than random teammates sitting in a turret and not getting out).
-If tankers get their way and say that it should require an army to take them down, then AV weapons should be equally effective against infantry. It's not fair to make yourself completely vulnerable to infantry in an effort to take down a tank if you still don't have a chance at killing it alone.
-Once you get more than one tank in a match it is pretty much unbearable to play against as they can't really be stopped without coordination, which you aren't going to get in a pub match.
-Rail sniping is a joke. There is no way to destroy a rail tank in the redline before they just reverse down the hill and out of sight. Again I haven't tried it, but I guess it's just a way for people that aren't good enough to play as infantry or a real tanker to still get some WP.

Should be team work on both sides of the equation.

Teamwork to kill a tank.

Teamwork to make a tank effective.

No team = Useless tank

Wonder what would happen if you gave infantry the anti-missile flare launcher and the bubble shield strong enough to deflect forge gun shots, smoke rounds, infantry having the only ability to resupply vehicles, and rebooting their repair systems?

No team the tank becomes an expensive gun on wheels.

However the tank must become far more capable of supporting its host as well. Extra transport spots, deployable bunker walls, sensors, structure removal like blowing up a gate or taking out heavily armored turrets that are self repairing.

Since when were vehicles ment to be a 'bread and butter' class ... in my opinion Vehicles should be an endgame specialisation (hence the high costs both SP and ISK) skilled for after you've mastered (or at least got to a good level in) your chosen FPS class.

It's not AVs fault people have decided to skip to the endgame without the income to support it.

I've pretty much stepped out of this vehicles/AV debate for a while, since changes are coming and we don't know the half of them yet, but this just occered to me so I thought I'd share it.

I just have a quick question here about the whole tank vs AV debate, and let me preface it by saying that I would love for it to be balanced completely. I have also never messed with driving a tank and have my swarm skill up to level 3. My perspective for this is coming from playing pub matches as well, so don't apply it to PC since that is quite different.

In my experience, running around with adv swarms with two adv damage mods is still relatively useless against most tanks that I would come across on the battlefield. They either just don't care that I'm there or they scurry away and I can't do anything about it. Again I have not used tanks and perhaps it does take an immense amount of skill to drive a tank at high speeds back into the hills. I rarely even pull out my swarms since they are so ineffective at destroying tanks, the best that I can usually hope for is just to bother the tanker enough that he just runs away and recalls out of fear that he MIGHT lose his tank.

The problems in my experience from an infantry perspective are as follows:
-Tanks are just too fast to be able to destroy. I can get their health down but they can always get away before I can kill them.
-Tanks are too expensive for what they provide. Tank drivers are too worried about losing their precious tanks and therefore behave quite cautiously/selfishly rather than helping their team. On the flip side using price as an argument is pretty ridiculous as well since just because a proto AV fit only costs 200k they are still a lot more likely to get killed trying to kill a tank since they are giving up their anti-personnel capabilities. Despite all of the whining, AV isn't necessarily a bargain compared to tanking.
-Recalling a vehicle is a ridiculous mechanic. I don't think that it should be removed completely, but it should be a much more high risk proposition than it currently is. It should involve and RDV coming down to slowly pick it up or something. As it is now every time a tank gets low they just hurry away and recall and don't have to worry about a thing (other than random teammates sitting in a turret and not getting out).
-If tankers get their way and say that it should require an army to take them down, then AV weapons should be equally effective against infantry. It's not fair to make yourself completely vulnerable to infantry in an effort to take down a tank if you still don't have a chance at killing it alone.
-Once you get more than one tank in a match it is pretty much unbearable to play against as they can't really be stopped without coordination, which you aren't going to get in a pub match.
-Rail sniping is a joke. There is no way to destroy a rail tank in the redline before they just reverse down the hill and out of sight. Again I haven't tried it, but I guess it's just a way for people that aren't good enough to play as infantry or a real tanker to still get some WP.

Should be team work on both sides of the equation.

Teamwork to kill a tank.

Teamwork to make a tank effective.

No team = Useless tank

Wonder what would happen if you gave infantry the anti-missile flare launcher and the bubble shield strong enough to deflect forge gun shots, smoke rounds, infantry having the only ability to resupply vehicles, and rebooting their repair systems?

No team the tank becomes an expensive gun on wheels.

However the tank must become far more capable of supporting its host as well. Extra transport spots, deployable bunker walls, sensors, structure removal like blowing up a gate or taking out heavily armored turrets that are self repairing.

Long range artillery tank? Have spotters and guide the shots in.
Pesky aircraft? Have laser designators to guide missiles in.
Need to short range fire fight, have infantry help pump the coolant to the blasters to keep them from overheating and lowering their overheat seizing.

We need more interplay overall. A first start would be having passengers able to fire in a non turret seat. making non turret seats on specialist vehicles meaningful (logi turret) (ewar manager) Mine layers and EOD infantry. The list can go on and on.

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

Well said.

Ive heard enough quality tankers complain about tanks for long enough I just want you fools buffed, honestly, so you will shut up about it lol.

There are tankers out there who dont complain and do well, then there are the rest of you. Somethings gotta be working for them, and the only answer I can come up with is strategy, tactics, teamwork. I'm sure you all shared notes with the "best" tankers that it doesnt come down to a fitting problem... you are just getting outplayed.

Buff tanks so we can move onto the next QQ topic please! Thanks (also buff derpships.. leading them is fun with my forge it would be awesome if it took more than 1 shot).. thanks againl.

the only effective way to kill a redline tank that i've found so far is a well timed orbital combined with AV and/or an ADS swooping don on the thing either just before/after the strike or during the strike itself. which means that if the tank is under the MCC it isn't dying, period.

Exactly!

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Sure but are you saying the a tanker my risk his ISK on the luck of his team being intelligent enough to know when to activate internal tank functions? If so I'm giving up right now. Sounds cool but impractical.

Sure but are you saying the a tanker my risk his ISK on the luck of his team being intelligent enough to know when to activate internal tank functions? If so I'm giving up right now. Sounds cool but impractical.

Infantry have to risk their wallet rely on a scout reliably deploying a drop uplink in a safe spot. Infantry have to rely on their squad mates scans are good coverage to prevent getting flanked. Infantry have to rely on their logi-bros to keep them in the game. Infantry have to rely on their team mates not dying in stupid hard to reach areas to revive them. Infantry have to rely on their teammates from not dropping a bad orbital on their heads and cost wise, have the highest cost potential over even the most expensive HAVs. Case in point officer weapons. Kill a guy with balac's and you could have set him back 20-30-40? matches? They don't drop often anymore.

I do plenty fine with my infantry builds without relying on ANY teammates, not in any coordinated fashion anyways. Infantry are just fine by themselves, and if they want to bring officer gear to a pub that's their own damn fault if they lose it.

Officer gear =/= vehicles

isk wise? you're right officer gear about 20-40x more in cost.

I mean what you just said is like trying to compare a megathron to a daredevil.

hang on... let me just... there we go brain is successfully unplugged. I think I might be on your level now...

so, AV call it 50k suit should be able to solo a 1m tank.

"tanks shouldn't be balanced around price!"

right, so a tank should cost as much as a dropsuit?

"long range swarms are easy to avoid"

and they are also invisible, didn't know swarms had cloaking devices did you?

EDIT: bolding for better visibility... maybe we should bold swarms.

1. No downside with AV NADES The only defense I have is a SMG with a 15m optimal range. Any AR user can kill me, no

because LOLav force us to redline snipe

Never had a problem with invisible swarms in my Madrugar

Then again, I guess we are both probably ignorant of the glitches that the other side faces while in combat.

Well I'm just trying to wrap my head around your original comment then, maybe I just misread it.

I thought who you were responding to whoever was saying how we would have to rely on infantry to keep us alive by using Anti AV gear to help us out, which would indicate that tanks are still **** all easy to kill, but you now have to pray your blues are on point (in squad or not). My response was more or less saying that infantry don't have to rely on other infantry to nearly such an extent, especially when ISK is factored in. People who are good don't die a whole lot, and tend to rely more on themselves than others. Tanks right now are laughably easy to kill in most situations (speaking as a proto AV user and someone with a reasonable amount of SP in tanks already)

As it stands a tanker has to be 100% on point the entire game, in comms, calling out enemies and watching for any and all AV, watching for remote explosives as they book it around the field, watching out for terrain because stopping = death, which can be hard to do when driving backwards full speed trying to shoot that AV guy as you try to duck around a corner. Your cooldowns have to be hit at the perfect time, and you better pray your modules don't glitch. This all comes with a massive ISK tag to it.

Proto AV just feels entirely too strong, from both ends of the spectrum.

what protoav do you use?

DUST is trying to combine the 2 into balanced gameplay for everyone, that means HAVs that can't sit t

what protoav do you use?

Ishukone Assault Forge Gun, proficiency 3 right now

I would also use Lai Dai AV nades but proto grenades are impossible to fit on a heavy without gimping the rest of your fit, or so I find. I could just be doing it wrong.

Please correct me If I am wrong, but I am seeing a majority of players who complain about AV hate swarms, and don't get me wrong they really are kind of a stupid weapon, but if this is the case then this discussion is going All wrong.

If forge guns are deemed acceptable or at least not "game breaking" and AV mades are fine, then why don't we talk about only the crux of the issue. Swarms suck, they take no skill to deal a huge chunk of damage.

Decrease damage to 280 or 260, increase lock time, decrease clip size to 2 and ammo count and make it so swarms and forge guns dont get ammo at nanohives then block off towers. Is this not a solution for the best counter to a tank should be a tank?

Well I don't fit proto grenades because I like my advanced nanohives.....

Both AV nades and Forge guns are also far too strong.

Lai Dai = Die

Ishukone = God Gun

what protoav do you use?

lai dias should have a max 800 dmg and pro AFG max8-900 impact or lower, pro breach should be 1500 with charge time cut a little

''Why Making Good AV Require Teamwork is A Bad Idea?''

IF tanks can solo , AV should be able to solo.

If AV needs team work, Make tanks Equally Teamwork dependant.

= Balance

/End thread

No no it does. Every AVer in that equation is self sufficient and can work together without even need to use team chat.

If you mean to say a tank needs, a driver, gunner, and moduler to be useful not only do you kill any sense of vehicle balance you kill driving vehicles as a whole. Why do infantry not understand this. Your game would be so boring, not to mention dead without the 500 or more vehicle users in this game.

I mean I'd head straight for battlefield and never look back.

Congratulations you would all have your CoD514.

No a Tanker Should be able to efficiently drive his tank solo, hell he could even choose to remove the small turrets and run it alone,but it shouldnt be very effective , same as 1 single AV is not very effective vs a good tanker.

Now as I see it, tankers feel they should be able to solo whole games since their tanks are expensive.
IMO You are just wearing a 6000HP + Dropssuit that is immune to all but 4 weapons and moves fast.

We've had this discussion 10000000000000000 times. like srsly ,wait for the changes then we can whine and rant....

No a Tanker Should be able to efficiently drive his tank solo, hell he could even choose to remove the small turrets and run it alone,but it shouldnt be very effective , same as 1 single AV is not very effective vs a good tanker.

Now as I see it, tankers feel they should be able to solo whole games since their tanks are expensive.
IMO You are just wearing a 6000HP + Dropssuit that is immune to all but 4 weapons and moves fast.

We've had this discussion 10000000000000000 times. like srsly ,wait for the changes then we can whine and rant....

AV is supposed to be buffer damage to assist your allied armor in taking out enemy tanks.

Sorry that you want to camp on a tower spamming the right trigger thinking you're good.

h

well... the difference is that our vehicles cost over 10x more than a single dropsuit you have, we also spent 10x the amount of SP you do to deploy anything..

and if balance isn't based around personal investment in this game, then why the **** do we even have personal investment, might as well make this call of duty where even the most ******** dumbass can destroy an entire planet by himself like you want.

''Why Making Good AV Require Teamwork is A Bad Idea?''

IF tanks can solo , AV should be able to solo.

If AV needs team work, Make tanks Equally Teamwork dependant.

= Balance

/End thread

well... the difference is that our vehicles cost over 10x more than a single dropsuit you have, we also spent 10x the amount of SP you do to deploy anything..

and if balance isn't based around personal investment in this game, then why the **** do we even have personal investment, might as well make this call of duty where even the most ******** dumbass can destroy an entire planet by himself like you want.

Yes that is a big ISK difference. But you know this before buying the vehicle. Nobody is making you run tanks every match, thats is your decision. IMO you are just buying a 4th Tier Dropsuit. Thats all, and for balance sake even if it cost x10 a Tier 3 dropsuit (proto) still shouldnt give you the right to solo matches.

The SP part is totall BULLCRAP and tankers know this,need to stop using that as an excuse , i have over 13mill on my AV fittings. The Suit,Skills,Passive skills, Proficiency,Rapid reload ,Sidearm Equipment,etc....

And lastly ..'even the most ******** dumbass can destroy an entire planet by himself like you want''
LOL THATS what YOU want, be able to solo games without teamwork, dont push that onto me, im saying everything uses teamwork, or it doesnt.

NOT YOUR: ''Yeah tanks can solo BUT you will need 2-4 PROTO AVs to take me down LOLOLO>...''

NO.

why is this not call of duty I have to think here, why do I need to think? why is the tank not the god particle!!!

Yes that is a big ISK difference. But you know this before buying the vehicle. Nobody is making you run tanks every match, thats is your decision. IMO you are just buying a 4th Tier Dropsuit. Thats all, and for balance sake even if it cost x10 a Tier 3 dropsuit (proto) still shouldnt give you the right to solo matches.
Its like me running PRoto every match and complaining a single STARTER fit dropped me with MLT Grenades.LOL

The SP part is totall BULLCRAP and tankers know this,need to stop using that as an excuse , i have over 13mill on my AV fittings. The Suit,Skills,Passive skills, Proficiency,Rapid reload ,Sidearm Equipment,etc....

And lastly ..'even the most ******** dumbass can destroy an entire planet by himself like you want''
LOL THATS what YOU want, be able to solo games without teamwork, dont push that onto me, im saying everything uses teamwork, or it doesnt.

NOT YOUR: ''Yeah tanks can solo BUT you will need 2-4 PROTO AVs to take me down LOLOLO>...''

NO.

im always giving you people real balance, yet you come round and blow it all away because you want call of duty.

You are one of the most Biased Tankers i've ever met, not as much as SPRK4whateves...but still, your ''balance'' is one sighted.

So its not balance.

You are one of the most Biased Tankers i've ever met, not as much as SPRK4whateves...but still, your ''balance'' is one sighted.

So its not balance.

and you are biased as well "if a 50 ton machine half the size of a building can solo, so can a dropsuit the size of a forge gun". that's biased

I'll just say it one more time.

Tank or no tank, Proto or MLT.

If you can Solo playing as a tanker; then you should be able to solo said tanker if you have equally tier'd equipment.




Why because this is for balance sake, even if you spent 50 milion sp and 500 billions in tanks, if you get in a game ALONE, then ALONE you should be able to die....

It might sound biased,but its for the sake of balance.

I say the same thing to you.

If we think of it a it SHOULD be, you 50 ton machine should take a lot of fire and survive, but as it is we dont have enough players per game to support powerful vehicles like this.

Example: If i need 2-3 guys to kill a tank, then what happens when void, adamance,TheLegend,Godin, SPRK4 etc..get all in a match and deploy 5-6 tanks in a 12 vs 12 match?

INBALANCE.thats what we have....

You tank with me King you know there is not balance, HAV needs buffs or AV needs nerfs.

I can be using Team work all match, what do I get for it. A downed maddy that made me run negative while, you,Aero, Lea, and the rest all make some ISK. I can down and assist 15 Tanks like I did the other night, still all 4 of the matches and 15 HAV downed for my one lost tank barely covered that HAV I did lose.

Most of the time I was running from Swarmers which magically attune to my location even after swinging right out past me around buildings.

I'll just say it one more time.

Tank or no tank, Proto or MLT.

If you can Solo playing as a tanker; then you should be able to solo said tanker if you have equally tier'd equipment.




Why because this is for balance sake, even if you spent 50 milion sp and 500 billions in tanks, if you get in a game ALONE, then ALONE you should be able to die....

This Is BS, not balance. In EVE you can kill Battleship with Frig, yes it is possible but only if BS-guy gone make a lot of mistakes.

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

that's not imbalance that's just ****** up matchmaking lol.

its not my fault the enemy never bothered to bring out av or didn't bother to skill into it.

if they bring out 3 avrs then those avrs have the ability to destroy us.

do not confuse balance with match making.

Double standards blaring in the face, infantry doesn't have to use teamwork to destroy tanks, but tankers have to use teamwork to stay alive.

Stop lying, you're not a tanker, go back to Call of Duty.

But i am not., This is a very possible scenario with or without bad matchmaking.

Lets say you are 6 tankers VS EQUALLY skilled 6 AVers.
As it is now, they (AV) do have a chance of winning.
I Admit, their chance is probablly higher than your chance of winning (TANKS).

But if they apply the :'' 2-3 AVers to take down 1 tank'' theory, even if the matchmaking was FLAWLESS and 12 EQUALLY SKilled , with EQUAL SP players got in the same match, they wont be able to stop you tankers....
You would win, 100% guaranteed.THIS IS NOT BALANCE.


By the numbers they would need at LEAST 12 Avers to take down 5-6 tanks...

I wouldnt MIND a tank buff, and an AV nerf. But if they set a TANK limit on the field. 2 per team in FQ and Pubs....

But i am not., This is a very possible scenario with or without bad matchmaking.

Lets say you are 6 tankers VS EQUALLY skilled 6 AVers.
As it is now, they (AV) do have a chance of winning.
I Admit, their chance is probablly higher than your chance of winning (TANKS).

But if they apply the :'' 2-3 AVers to take down 1 tank'' theory, even if the matchmaking was FLAWLESS and 12 EQUALLY SKilled , with EQUAL SP players got in the same match, they wont be able to stop you tankers....
You would win, 100% guaranteed.THIS IS NOT BALANCE.


By the numbers they would need at LEAST 12 Avers to take down 5-6 tanks...

I wouldnt MIND a tank buff, and an AV nerf. But if they set a TANK limit on the field. 2 per team in FQ and Pubs....

Well, that was a wonderful thread, very compelling lol.

Wait you are saying that 5 Dedicated AV specialists could not take down 5 Maddy Tanks?

I'm betting the other way. Were talking 15X Swarm groups in the air in 6 seconds. Stand on Nano's were talking infinite Ammo. Not to mention Lai Dai AV grenades and AV in a building.

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

Back on Chromosone and an Imperfects at the time, Me, Protoman and others played against Metro, The Legend, Dr. Spazz and one other tanker in a regular ambush on the smallest map (we called it "Bowl" aka Tank hell). We only had one tank on our side, a good one too, while the enemy had 4, 2 of which were Surya. Even against those odds we WON against top tier tankers because WE USED TEAMWORK and by no means was our AV OP. The tankers could've been able to wipe us out if they had lined up and flanked the bowl together, sure one or two tanks may have been destroyed as a result but then the remaining two would've proceeded to kill my whole team.

AV should require teamwork to blow up a tank, AV as it is makes easy to blow up vehicles especially when the guy is using a Logi LAV for transport.

your making yourself look to stupid to do more than one thing, if 6 avers are on the field, and 6 tankers, then 3 of them would each have their own tank to destroy, and if theres 3 avrs on the field, those 3 avrs would destroy all the tanks in the battle... seriously, your amiability to multitask is pathetic.

ADAMANCE PLEASE READ. You know im not some mindless AV hot head , read what i wrote.

Im saying 6 Avers vs 6 Tankers as it is RIGHT NOW, (AND OF COURSE depending on the map) AVs have more chance of winning.

If you make it for 2-3 AVers needed to take down ONE tank, then 6 TAnkers will always win Vs 6 AVs, even if equally skilled.

--Extra note: If a tanker lets a Avers STAND on nanos i think he deserves to get killed lol. (NOTE THE big letters on the STAND)

Again, its very map dependant.

Ok echo, i forgot you are a VERY slow dude here i go again:

GÖª If 2 Guys are needed to take down ONE tank.
GÖª The 6 Avers and 6 Tankers have lets say 15 Mill SP, and are EQUALLY skilled, there by PERFECT matchmaking.
GÖª We put the 6 AVers and The 6 TAnks in a 300mts completley PLAIN terrain.
GÖª The 6 Tankers will win, 100% of the time.
GÖª Because to take out the 6 tankers you would need 12 AVers; 6 Avers will only take down 3 and then get outdamaged by the other 3 tanks.

I understand where you are coming from with your little re7arded explanation, but im assuming the Tankers are actually doing something more than standing still. DUh....

No actually your to much of an elitist indenilistist (lol) that you didnt noticed that srgentnovastar called out his rail tank. That was when a rail could 3shot any tank. So while we were preoccupied he killed us then your squad prevented us from getting our tanks in.

You used teamwork alot but it was always the rail tank that would end up beating me. Every time i played zitro id put on the tryhard panties kill him with a surya a few times then hed call out an lolrail tank and **** me with the help of you pinning me.

Thus tank vs tank becomes more important. Which is a positive thing!!! That's how tanking was in chromosome, minus the overpowered rail factor, tanks had to focus on other tanks because is you let one go unmatched it could do some damage.

Ok echo, i forgot you are a VERY slow dude here i go again:

GÖª If 2 Guys are needed to take down ONE tank.

3 guys would be balance..

GÖª The 6 Avers and 6 Tankers have lets say 15 Mill SP, and are EQUALLY skilled, there by PERFECT matchmaking.

then the avers would decimate the tankers before they got halfway through the map.

GÖª We put the 6 AVers and The 6 TAnks in a 300mts completley PLAIN terrain.

avers would win in less than a minute.

GÖª The 6 Tankers will win, 100% of the time.

lol no we wouldn't win, with the efficiency of av vs tanks, if the av is standing completely still and doing nothing, then we would win.

GÖª Because to take out the 6 tankers you would need 12 AVers; 6 Avers will only take down 3 and then get outdamaged by the other 3 tanks.

in order to take out one tank you would need 3 avers, so IF THERE IS MORE THAN ONE TANK ON THE FIELD, THOSE 3 GUYS WOULD BE ALL YOU NEED TO DESTROY THE TANKS.

I understand where you are coming from with your little re7arded explanation, but im assuming the avers are actually doing something more than standing still. DUh....

Thus tank vs tank becomes more important. Which is a positive thing!!! That's how tanking was in chromosome, minus the overpowered rail factor, tanks had to focus on other tanks because is you let one go unmatched it could do some damage.

Chromosome tanks were notorious for being OP. It was so bad that CCP had to remove marauder tanks from the game.

Proto Tanks need come back. Why cant we have proto too?

It might sound biased,but its for the sake of balance.

If we think of it a it SHOULD be, you 50 ton machine should take a lot of fire and survive, but as it is we dont have enough players per game to support powerful vehicles like this.

Example: If i need 2-3 guys to kill a tank, then what happens when void, adamance,TheLegend,Godin, SPRK4 etc..get all in a match and deploy 5-6 tanks in a 12 vs 12 match?

INBALANCE.thats what we have....

But i am not., This is a very possible scenario with or without bad matchmaking.

Lets say you are 6 tankers VS EQUALLY skilled 6 AVers.
As it is now, they (AV) do have a chance of winning.
I Admit, their chance is probablly higher than your chance of winning (TANKS).

But if they apply the :'' 2-3 AVers to take down 1 tank'' theory, even if the matchmaking was FLAWLESS and 12 EQUALLY SKilled , with EQUAL SP players got in the same match, they wont be able to stop you tankers....
You would win, 100% guaranteed.THIS IS NOT BALANCE.


By the numbers they would need at LEAS

Proto Tanks need come back. Why cant we have proto too?

ADAMANCE PLEASE READ. You know im not some mindless AV hot head , read what i wrote.

Im saying 6 Avers vs 6 Tankers as it is RIGHT NOW, (AND OF COURSE depending on the map) AVs have more chance of winning.

If you make it for 2-3 AVers needed to take down ONE tank, then 6 TAnkers will always win Vs 6 AVs, even if equally skilled.

--Extra note: If a tanker lets a Avers STAND on nanos i think he deserves to get killed lol. (NOTE THE big letters on the STAND)

Again, its very map dependant.

Ok echo, i forgot you are a VERY slow dude here i go again:

GÖª If 2 Guys are needed to take down ONE tank.
GÖª The 6 Avers and 6 Tankers have lets say 15 Mill SP, and are EQUALLY skilled, there by PERFECT matchmaking.
GÖª We put the 6 AVers and The 6 TAnks in a 300mts completley PLAIN terrain.
GÖª The 6 Tankers will win, 100% of the time.
GÖª Because to take out the 6 tankers you would need 12 AVers; 6 Avers will only take down 3 and then get outdamaged by the other 3 tanks.

I understand where you are coming from with your little re7arded explanation, but im assuming the Tankers are actually doing something more than standing still. DUh....

Ok echo, i forgot you are a VERY slow dude here i go again:

GÖª If 2 Guys are needed to take down ONE tank.
GÖª The 6 Avers and 6 Tankers have lets say 15 Mill SP, and are EQUALLY skilled, there by PERFECT matchmaking.
GÖª We put the 6 AVers and The 6 TAnks in a 300mts completley PLAIN terrain.
GÖª The 6 Tankers will win, 100% of the time.
GÖª Because to take out the 6 tankers you would need 12 AVers; 6 Avers will only take down 3 and th

I think what you are looking for is called a Forge Gun.

Edit... this original post is bad. Let them buff tanks and dropships. Lets see how it goes.. FFS they have been relatively underpowered for a looong time. Give them something to look forward to and changes can be a good thing. Right now it is not a big challenge to take a tank out of the equation either by blowing it up or making it run for the hills.

*sigh* AGAIN
it wouldn't take 12 av'rs, stupid, 3 av on 1 tank each as in
3 guy are av, all fire on 1 tank, boom move on do the same for all tanks, if you fail to comprehend that you are ********.

im talking in the case
tank get a buff, Av an nerf an 2+ Avers are needed to take down 1 single tank, yall of your answers are assuming everything stay as it is, except the fist one : ''3 guys would be balance..'' which confirmes you are a demented biased tanker.

How can I stop and Aver standing on his own nano hives?

And you are Lueko #2. Make my tanks cost less than 200k for a REALLY good one and ill agree with you.

If he is on a roof?

reply to your post above.
you are THE MOST STUPID PERSON ON THESE FORUMS.
1. infrantry can use cover and fire swarms over without risk.
2. tower camping
3. a hill
4. distraction
5. tank isn't looking
i can keep going on.....if you reply saying "herp derp av standing still" or "if you cant kill them in cover you deserve to die" i will probably make a thread how ******** you are

reply to your post above.
you are THE MOST STUPID PERSON ON THESE FORUMS.
1. infrantry can use cover and fire swarms over without risk.
2. tower camping
3. a hill
4. distraction
5. tank isn't looking
i can keep going on.....if you reply saying "herp derp av standing still" or "if you cant kill them in cover you deserve to die" i will probably make a thread how ******** you are

There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill.

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill.

There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill.

Hard to kill but easy to disable.

Ok b..

Attim I was starting to like you.... then this....

Auto Locking double DPS weapons that are fire and forget do not deserve to be, nor should have the capability to solo HAV. We need to reach a point of balance where players actually want to deploy tanks to the map, this way we get the fights that we see in trailers.....

However as you and many others would have it. AV dominates the map with no downsides nor need to leave the red line granting free 150 + 50 WP at regular intervals for doing nothing.

Your 500K SP, and 300K ISK investment is denying dynamic gameplay and destroying 10+ Million SP, and destroying 1-2 Million SP vehicles with too much ease.

Swarm Lock time needs an increase, fire rate needs to remain the same, with swarms not making 180- degree turns and able to be unlocked by terrain and such.

I do. But that was a golden time when I was a young Aver hunting down great monsters. Back then it was an accomplishment to AV well, not something every joker out there could do.

I do want Chromo Tanks back, as our proto type HAV.

Yeah but 5 is really the tankers own damn fault. So is 4.

There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill.

This post is so one sided.

-With 5 Tanks on the field they have 5 less infantry to take Objectives. Most objectives can be defended against Infantry without exposing yourself to a Tank, although having a tank there makes it a real pain.

-If it takes 3 guys to kill a tank, the same 3 guys can kill the next tank, and then the next. The other 3 guys should be keeping the infantry off your back. By the time you get the third tank they will be recalling the other two.

-Militia Swarm Launchers will still suck, but they are free and everyone has them, so it would not be unusual to see 4 blueberries with militia swarms and some dude on a turret.

-The 3 AV to kill a Tank idea applies to properly tanked tanks. Glass Cannons, and half-ass fits will still fall to a single Proto Swarm Launcher.


Fox Guide: Swarm Launcher, Unleashing the Swarm

remove/nerf pro av

I do. But that was a golden time when I was a young Aver hunting down great monsters. Back then it was an accomplishment to AV well, not something every joker out there could do.

I do want Chromo Tanks back, as our proto type HAV.

Surya was a good start. At proto level tanks need to be tough to kill.

Double standards blaring in the face, infantry doesn't have to use teamwork to destroy tanks, but tankers have to use teamwork to stay alive.

Stop lying, you're not a tanker, go back to Call of Duty.

Think of it this way: Try fighting against a duvolle in a militia/standard suit. That's what's been going on with tanks and AV- proto tanks don't exist. Enforcers don't count since they're basically a militia tank with an extra slot.

I see where you are coming from:
Tanks do need a buff, thats not in discussion here.

BTW bad example, My Cal BPO runs 640 HP and an Exile. An i can do with Duvolle user with this,VERY often too..... XD

It's sad when you've earned the respect of someone that you've sworn to kill over and over again. It's even sadder when s/he has earned your respect as well.

Anyways "fire and forget". Yes, but swarms are only "fire and forget" when they are in the perfect situation that I listed here. And I kinda forgot to bold some text that you should read again.

Reading comprehension: 6.2 (Rusty)

im talking in the case
tank get a buff, Av an nerf an 2+ Avers are needed to take down 1 single tank, yall of your answers are assuming everything stay as it is, except the fist one : ''3 guys would be balance..'' which confirmes you are a demented biased tanker.