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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3477
   |
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:15:00 -
[181] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Think of it this way: Try fighting against a duvolle in a militia/standard suit. That's what's been going on with tanks and AV- proto tanks don't exist. Enforcers don't count since they're basically a militia tank with an extra slot.
I see where you are coming from:Tanks do need a buff, thats not in discussion here.BTW bad example, My Cal BPO runs 640 HP and an Exile. An i can do with Duvolle user with this,VERY often too..... XD
I wish I had a BPO Soma.... and large blaster turret. |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
160
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:18:00 -
[182] - Quote
Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:Attim I was starting to like you.... then this....
Auto Locking double DPS weapons that are fire and forget do not deserve to be, nor should have the capability to solo HAV. We need to reach a point of balance where players actually want to deploy tanks to the map, this way we get the fights that we see in trailers.....
However as you and many others would have it. AV dominates the map with no downsides nor need to leave the red line granting free 150 + 50 WP at regular intervals for doing nothing.
Your 500K SP, and 300K ISK investment is denying dynamic gameplay and destroying 10+ Million SP, and destroying 1-2 Million SP vehicles with too much ease.
Swarm Lock time needs an increase, fire rate needs to remain the same, with swarms not making 180- degree turns and able to be unlocked by terrain and such. It's sad when you've earned the respect of someone that you've sworn to kill over and over again. It's even sadder when s/he has earned your respect as well. Anyways "fire and forget". Yes, but swarms are only "fire and forget" when they are in the perfect situation that I listed here. And I kinda forgot to bold some text that you should read again. Reading comprehension: 6.2 (Rusty)
"Perfect situation for swarms", I got hit six times by proto swarms on Manus peak I was driving over to the road near "C" from "A" ground spawn side when I got hit by proto swarms Turned on mods got hit twice more. I then rounded a corner on the road to "C" swarms made the 90 degree turn and hit me again as I sped up two more volleys hit me. That swarmer did 15000 damage in less than 15 seconds and hit me despite my attempt to move to another location. He should not have been able to hit me with his fire and forget missiles in two different places in a short period of time for that much damage. |
Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:21:00 -
[183] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:
your making yourself look to stupid to do more than one thing, if 6 avers are on the field, and 6 tankers, then 3 of them would each have their own tank to destroy, and if theres 3 avrs on the field, those 3 avrs would destroy all the tanks in the battle... seriously, your amiability to multitask is pathetic.
Ok echo, i forgot you are a VERY slow dude here i go again: GÖª If 2 Guys are needed to take down ONE tank. 3 guys would be balance..GÖª The 6 Avers and 6 Tankers have lets say 15 Mill SP, and are EQUALLY skilled, there by PERFECT matchmaking. then the avers would decimate the tankers before they got halfway through the map. GÖª We put the 6 AVers and The 6 TAnks in a 300mts completley PLAIN terrain. avers would win in less than a minute.GÖª The 6 Tankers will win, 100% of the time. lol no we wouldn't win, with the efficiency of av vs tanks, if the av is standing completely still and doing nothing, then we would win.GÖª Because to take out the 6 tankers you would need 12 AVers; 6 Avers will only take down 3 and then get outdamaged by the other 3 tanks. in order to take out one tank you would need 3 avers, so IF THERE IS MORE THAN ONE TANK ON THE FIELD, THOSE 3 GUYS WOULD BE ALL YOU NEED TO DESTROY THE TANKS.I understand where you are coming from with your little re7arded explanation, but im assuming the avers are actually doing something more than standing still. DUh.... im talking in the case tank get a buff, Av an nerf an 2+ Avers are needed to take down 1 single tank, yall of your answers are assuming everything stay as it is, except the fist one : ''3 guys would be balance..'' which confirmes you are a demented biased tanker.
So in your view of the 1.7 changes it will take three AVers to kill a tank? So that still means if all 6 AVers concentrate their fire on a single tank they can take it down fast. Plus, I really don't want to make any judgements about the updates in 1.7, the data I have seen is a little difficult to apply practically since so many of the modules have drastic changes made. Plus, I see too many things wrong in what the changes are going to be to get a good idea on what Tank vs AV warfare is going to be. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9597
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:26:00 -
[184] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Infantry have to risk their wallet rely on a scout reliably deploying a drop uplink in a safe spot. Infantry have to rely on their squad mates scans are good coverage to prevent getting flanked. Infantry have to rely on their logi-bros to keep them in the game. Infantry have to rely on their team mates not dying in stupid hard to reach areas to revive them. Infantry have to rely on their teammates from not dropping a bad orbital on their heads and cost wise, have the highest cost potential over even the most expensive HAVs. Case in point officer weapons. Kill a guy with balac's and you could have set him back 20-30-40? matches? They don't drop often anymore. I do plenty fine with my infantry builds without relying on ANY teammates, not in any coordinated fashion anyways. Infantry are just fine by themselves, and if they want to bring officer gear to a pub that's their own damn fault if they lose it. Officer gear =/= vehicles isk wise? you're right officer gear about 20-40x more in cost. I mean what you just said is like trying to compare a megathron to a daredevil. Well I'm just trying to wrap my head around your original comment then, maybe I just misread it. I thought who you were responding to whoever was saying how we would have to rely on infantry to keep us alive by using Anti AV gear to help us out, which would indicate that tanks are still **** all easy to kill, but you now have to pray your blues are on point (in squad or not). My response was more or less saying that infantry don't have to rely on other infantry to nearly such an extent, especially when ISK is factored in. People who are good don't die a whole lot, and tend to rely more on themselves than others. Tanks right now are laughably easy to kill in most situations (speaking as a proto AV user and someone with a reasonable amount of SP in tanks already) As it stands a tanker has to be 100% on point the entire game, in comms, calling out enemies and watching for any and all AV, watching for remote explosives as they book it around the field, watching out for terrain because stopping = death, which can be hard to do when driving backwards full speed trying to shoot that AV guy as you try to duck around a corner. Your cooldowns have to be hit at the perfect time, and you better pray your modules don't glitch. This all comes with a massive ISK tag to it. Proto AV just feels entirely too strong, from both ends of the spectrum.
I won't discount you guys get @#$%^ on easily. However I have seen situations where the players doing the @%# got @#$ in return by a different tank pilot. |
Caeli SineDeo
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
709
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:29:00 -
[185] - Quote
Right I am seeing horrible reasoning If we make it team work and you guys call in 6 tanks we will need 12 to 16 guys in AV to take them all out.
Actually no you would only need 4 smart AV players to clear the field easily. Yes there might be a little choas right away But truely if we mad it using team work where at least 2 AV needed to take down a tank at decent rate of time. 4 good av guys working together would handle 6 tanks no problem.
You do not run around like chickens with your heads cut off you actually play smart. You set up in a location you know a tank is coming to jump it 1 down. You move as a group behind your team next tank comes to kill them you kill it 2 down. pretty soon you have the tanks down to 1 or 2 with just 4 guys. Yes if you run in throwing AV nades sucidal against 2-3 tanks together expect to die.
Just because something takes teamwork does not mean that if there are more then 1 tank in the game that you need to keep doubling to match with AV. Hell it is even better for AV to have more tanks because that means less infantry to counter while setting up to jump tanks.
Sorry your reasoning is thrown out the window.
One thing I expect is during those 30-45 seconds I am running my modules is to be able to take AV fire and push a little help my team. then retreat to recover before my next push. As a smart tanker I will be thinking and looking out for any traps that might happen as I recover. A smart AV team will work to push as I attack but have a guy set up to catch me on retreat when my modules are down and I am easy pickings.
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
During the time I am running my modules I should expect 4-5 guys taking 20 seconds+ to bust my tank. Yes one guy should be able to take me if my pants are down and I am on full cool down but he should be bent over for trying to take me on while I have access to active modules.
If I run a full passive fit I should expect 2 guys take around 20 seconds to drop me 3+ will do quick work.
Remember this is me running full proto and them running full proto.
I do not want to be god but I do expect fo be rewarded for playing smart. And forcing AV players to play just as smart to take me out. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
278
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:30:00 -
[186] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:Please correct me If I am wrong, but I am seeing a majority of players who complain about AV hate swarms, and don't get me wrong they really are kind of a stupid weapon, but if this is the case then this discussion is going All wrong.
If forge guns are deemed acceptable or at least not "game breaking" and AV mades are fine, then why don't we talk about only the crux of the issue. Swarms suck, they take no skill to deal a huge chunk of damage.
Decrease damage rate and level of target tracking, increase clip size and ammo count. Is this not a solution?
No it's not.
We already had lock time nerfs
DPS is only OP when tanks are out in the open and exposed.
Do you use swarms? |
Caeli SineDeo
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
709
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:32:00 -
[187] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Infantry have to risk their wallet rely on a scout reliably deploying a drop uplink in a safe spot. Infantry have to rely on their squad mates scans are good coverage to prevent getting flanked. Infantry have to rely on their logi-bros to keep them in the game. Infantry have to rely on their team mates not dying in stupid hard to reach areas to revive them. Infantry have to rely on their teammates from not dropping a bad orbital on their heads and cost wise, have the highest cost potential over even the most expensive HAVs. Case in point officer weapons. Kill a guy with balac's and you could have set him back 20-30-40? matches? They don't drop often anymore. I do plenty fine with my infantry builds without relying on ANY teammates, not in any coordinated fashion anyways. Infantry are just fine by themselves, and if they want to bring officer gear to a pub that's their own damn fault if they lose it. Officer gear =/= vehicles isk wise? you're right officer gear about 20-40x more in cost. I mean what you just said is like trying to compare a megathron to a daredevil. Well I'm just trying to wrap my head around your original comment then, maybe I just misread it. I thought who you were responding to whoever was saying how we would have to rely on infantry to keep us alive by using Anti AV gear to help us out, which would indicate that tanks are still **** all easy to kill, but you now have to pray your blues are on point (in squad or not). My response was more or less saying that infantry don't have to rely on other infantry to nearly such an extent, especially when ISK is factored in. People who are good don't die a whole lot, and tend to rely more on themselves than others. Tanks right now are laughably easy to kill in most situations (speaking as a proto AV user and someone with a reasonable amount of SP in tanks already) As it stands a tanker has to be 100% on point the entire game, in comms, calling out enemies and watching for any and all AV, watching for remote explosives as they book it around the field, watching out for terrain because stopping = death, which can be hard to do when driving backwards full speed trying to shoot that AV guy as you try to duck around a corner. Your cooldowns have to be hit at the perfect time, and you better pray your modules don't glitch. This all comes with a massive ISK tag to it. Proto AV just feels entirely too strong, from both ends of the spectrum. I won't discount you guys get @#$%^ on easily. However I have seen situations where the players doing the @%# got @#$ in return by a different tank pilot.
Guys do not even try to reason with Iron Wolf He knows nothing. He runs militant tanks and thinks that all of a sudden the tank gods blessed him with knowledge. He sucks with AV but thinks he is good and he has trouble so they must be close to balanced. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3479
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:34:00 -
[188] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:Right I am seeing horrible reasoning If we make it team work and you guys call in 6 tanks we will need 12 to 16 guys in AV to take them all out.
Actually no you would only need 4 smart AV players to clear the field easily. Yes there might be a little choas right away But truely if we mad it using team work where at least 2 AV needed to take down a tank at decent rate of time. 4 good av guys working together would handle 6 tanks no problem.
You do not run around like chickens with your heads cut off you actually play smart. You set up in a location you know a tank is coming to jump it 1 down. You move as a group behind your team next tank comes to kill them you kill it 2 down. pretty soon you have the tanks down to 1 or 2 with just 4 guys. Yes if you run in throwing AV nades sucidal against 2-3 tanks together expect to die.
Just because something takes teamwork does not mean that if there are more then 1 tank in the game that you need to keep doubling to match with AV. Hell it is even better for AV to have more tanks because that means less infantry to counter while setting up to jump tanks.
Sorry your reasoning is thrown out the window.
One thing I expect is during those 30-45 seconds I am running my modules is to be able to take AV fire and push a little help my team. then retreat to recover before my next push. As a smart tanker I will be thinking and looking out for any traps that might happen as I recover. A smart AV team will work to push as I attack but have a guy set up to catch me on retreat when my modules are down and I am easy pickings.
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
During the time I am running my modules I should expect 4-5 guys taking 20 seconds+ to bust my tank. Yes one guy should be able to take me if my pants are down and I am on full cool down but he should be bent over for trying to take me on while I have access to active modules.
If I run a full passive fit I should expect 2 guys take around 20 seconds to drop me 3+ will do quick work.
Remember this is me running full proto and them running full proto.
I do not want to be god but I do expect fo be rewarded for playing smart. And forcing AV players to play just as smart to take me out.
Indeed. Many tankers I see on the maps do not play smart. I am guilty of doing the occasions bonehead play of sitting on the front lines, but besides that I am always trying to consider where it is best for me to attack from, especially with other HAV on the field. However the issue is much of the time I can roll up on a point and be immediately forced back off of it by anyone withSwarms.
Coupled with shoddy blaster hit mechanics, lag, and the insane strafe speed of these suits, dropping them can be incredibly tough. |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1984
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:37:00 -
[189] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
t
This is the kind of BS tankers want us to believe LOL
If thats true: You tank sucks balls and so do you
And why do i know its a lie?:
I have tried soloing tanks with a LOT of damage at the same time: 4-PE + PRO Packed Grenades + up to 5 PROTO SWARMS WITH PROF AND DAM MODs , and they survive and run away.
SURVIVE and RUN AWAY. This means in good theory if he had seen me before i saw him he could have killed me without me able to inflict ANY important damage.
I run ADV P/E + Proto SWARMS + Lai Dai Packed nades on an Amarr logi.And even while emptying EVERYTHING tanks have been able to survive. Your pitiful.'' aw gawd my tank gets soloed all the time by 1 AVer'' just makes you look bad, you are not fooling anyone.
On other notes. Yeah tanks need a buff, just not chromo level buff.... |
Soldiersaint
Deepspace Digital
475
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:39:00 -
[190] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:AV is supposed to be buffer damage to assist your allied armor in taking out enemy tanks.
Sorry that you want to camp on a tower spamming the right trigger thinking you're good.
Its not about being good. We could care less. While your busy looking good we are smashing enemy armor to bits. to hell with being good. Its about defeating the enemy by any means. And i do mean ANY! |
|
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
REAPERS REPUBLIC
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:40:00 -
[191] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill. remove/nerf pro av Nerf Whiny tankers
nerf the bitchy infrantry that got tanks nerfed a billion times and av buffed |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
278
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:41:00 -
[192] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:Right I am seeing horrible reasoning If we make it team work and you guys call in 6 tanks we will need 12 to 16 guys in AV to take them all out.
Actually no you would only need 4 smart AV players to clear the field easily. Yes there might be a little choas right away But truely if we mad it using team work where at least 2 AV needed to take down a tank at decent rate of time. 4 good av guys working together would handle 6 tanks no problem.
You do not run around like chickens with your heads cut off you actually play smart. You set up in a location you know a tank is coming to jump it 1 down. You move as a group behind your team next tank comes to kill them you kill it 2 down. pretty soon you have the tanks down to 1 or 2 with just 4 guys. Yes if you run in throwing AV nades sucidal against 2-3 tanks together expect to die.
Just because something takes teamwork does not mean that if there are more then 1 tank in the game that you need to keep doubling to match with AV. Hell it is even better for AV to have more tanks because that means less infantry to counter while setting up to jump tanks.
Sorry your reasoning is thrown out the window.
One thing I expect is during those 30-45 seconds I am running my modules is to be able to take AV fire and push a little help my team. then retreat to recover before my next push. As a smart tanker I will be thinking and looking out for any traps that might happen as I recover. A smart AV team will work to push as I attack but have a guy set up to catch me on retreat when my modules are down and I am easy pickings.
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
During the time I am running my modules I should expect 4-5 guys taking 20 seconds+ to bust my tank. Yes one guy should be able to take me if my pants are down and I am on full cool down but he should be bent over for trying to take me on while I have access to active modules.
If I run a full passive fit I should expect 2 guys take around 20 seconds to drop me 3+ will do quick work.
Remember this is me running full proto and them running full proto.
I do not want to be god but I do expect fo be rewarded for playing smart. And forcing AV players to play just as smart to take me out.
Yeah CURRENTLY it only takes 4 AV players to take down LOLTank squads. Now with the an AV nerf and the fact that most tankers want to see ppl have to use 3-4 ppl to take out ONE tank, It WILL take an entire team of AV to deal with them.
And BTW it's proto AV. It does it's job. Do you think that they are supposed to tickle? Do you think that they are supposed to fire warning shots to tanks out in the open? And If your tanks modules are down and/or your are retreating then why complain if we destroy your crap Has your IQ dropped to 30?
And other than the brown (or blue) aura around your tank when your reppers are on, how do we push together and know when your tank's modules are down? From my 4+ months of tanking I can guarantee that it is not possible.
Huh look. My friend named Common Sense grabbed my reasoning and placed it back on the table. Now look, he won't even let your bad reasoning in through the back door. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
REAPERS REPUBLIC
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:41:00 -
[193] - Quote
Atiim wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill. Thats what i think, but loltankers here want chromo tanks back... Pfft... Exactly, I don't want tanks to be paper, but these guys are crazy. They want an AV nerf and a Tank buff at the same time! And their teamwork model Idea is evil!
tanks were nerfed a billion times and av got buffed too |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
REAPERS REPUBLIC
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:44:00 -
[194] - Quote
Blake Kingston wrote:The usual stuff - 'tankers' wont say how much they want to pwn - they will just complain about what stops them pwn'ing in particular ways...oh, which just coincidentally helps them pwn more and more - and they wont stop complaining ever, so really it's just a desire to auto win if you can call a tank.
Exactly how much power do tankers, on average, want?
For some of them, they are too ashamed to admit what they want for what it'll look like. So they complain about little things that stop them from pwn'ing.
tanks will have ammo which will force them to retreat, they need a survivalbily buff too to help them, they wont be pwning because ammo |
Caeli SineDeo
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
709
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:45:00 -
[195] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
t
This is the kind of BS tankers want us to believe LOLIf thats true: You tank sucks balls and so do youAnd why do i know its a lie?: I have tried soloing tanks with a LOT of damage at the same time: 4-PE + PRO Packed Grenades + up to 5 PROTO SWARMS WITH PROF AND DAM MODs , and they survive and run away. SURVIVE and RUN AWAY. This means in good theory if he had seen me before i saw him he could have killed me without me able to inflict ANY important damage. I run ADV P/E + Proto SWARMS + Lai Dai Packed nades on an Amarr logi.And even while emptying EVERYTHING tanks have been able to survive. Your pitiful.'' aw gawd my tank gets soloed all the time by 1 AVer'' just makes you look bad, you are not fooling anyone.
On other notes. Yeah tanks need a buff, just not chromo level buff....
First off you need to go talk to any recognizable player in this forum. And ask him who I am. And if I am good. Before you say I suck and do not know what I am doing.
Consider me a ******* god compared to your scrawny noobie self.
And yes any armor tank can be dropped in 10 seconds by AV. While modules are running. I can run a 4 damage mod LOL Swarm Fire 2 Shots then throw 4 AV nades in 10 seconds. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3481
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:49:00 -
[196] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:Right I am seeing horrible reasoning If we make it team work and you guys call in 6 tanks we will need 12 to 16 guys in AV to take them all out.
Actually no you would only need 4 smart AV players to clear the field easily. Yes there might be a little choas right away But truely if we mad it using team work where at least 2 AV needed to take down a tank at decent rate of time. 4 good av guys working together would handle 6 tanks no problem.
You do not run around like chickens with your heads cut off you actually play smart. You set up in a location you know a tank is coming to jump it 1 down. You move as a group behind your team next tank comes to kill them you kill it 2 down. pretty soon you have the tanks down to 1 or 2 with just 4 guys. Yes if you run in throwing AV nades sucidal against 2-3 tanks together expect to die.
Just because something takes teamwork does not mean that if there are more then 1 tank in the game that you need to keep doubling to match with AV. Hell it is even better for AV to have more tanks because that means less infantry to counter while setting up to jump tanks.
Sorry your reasoning is thrown out the window.
One thing I expect is during those 30-45 seconds I am running my modules is to be able to take AV fire and push a little help my team. then retreat to recover before my next push. As a smart tanker I will be thinking and looking out for any traps that might happen as I recover. A smart AV team will work to push as I attack but have a guy set up to catch me on retreat when my modules are down and I am easy pickings.
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
So when we have proto tanks you will not cry OPwhen we shrug off your ishukone forge guns?
During the time I am running my modules I should expect 4-5 guys taking 20 seconds+ to bust my tank. Yes one guy should be able to take me if my pants are down and I am on full cool down but he should be bent over for trying to take me on while I have access to active modules.
If I run a full passive fit I should expect 2 guys take around 20 seconds to drop me 3+ will do quick work.
Remember this is me running full proto and them running full proto.
I do not want to be god but I do expect fo be rewarded for playing smart. And forcing AV players to play just as smart to take me out. Yeah CURRENTLY it only takes 4 AV players to take down LOLTank squads. Now with the an AV nerf and the fact that most tankers want to see ppl have to use 3-4 ppl to take out ONE tank, It WILL take an entire team of AV to deal with them. And BTW it's proto AV. It does it's job. Do you think that they are supposed to tickle? Do you think that they are supposed to fire warning shots to tanks out in the open? And If your tanks modules are down and/or your are retreating then why complain if we destroy your crap Has your IQ dropped to 30? And other than the brown (or blue) aura around your tank when your reppers are on, how do we push together and know when your tank's modules are down? From my 4+ months of tanking I can guarantee that it is not possible. Huh look. My friend named Common Sense grabbed my reasoning and placed it back on the table. Now look, he won't even let your bad reasoning in through the back door.
So you will not cry OP when I am shrugging off you Ishukone forge gun in my Proto Tank? I mean it is a proto tank and its supposed to do its job. |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1985
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:49:00 -
[197] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill. remove/nerf pro av Nerf Whiny tankers nerf the bitchy infrantry that got tanks nerfed a billion times and av buffed
Wow cool comeback dude. truly impressive. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
REAPERS REPUBLIC
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:50:00 -
[198] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Slag Emberforge wrote:Please correct me If I am wrong, but I am seeing a majority of players who complain about AV hate swarms, and don't get me wrong they really are kind of a stupid weapon, but if this is the case then this discussion is going All wrong.
If forge guns are deemed acceptable or at least not "game breaking" and AV mades are fine, then why don't we talk about only the crux of the issue. Swarms suck, they take no skill to deal a huge chunk of damage.
Decrease damage rate and level of target tracking, increase clip size and ammo count. Is this not a solution? No it's not. We already had lock time nerfs DPS is only OP when tanks are out in the open and exposed. Do you use swarms?
i took out 3 tanks in 1 match with MLT swarms |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3481
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:51:00 -
[199] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill. remove/nerf pro av Nerf Whiny tankers nerf the bitchy infrantry that got tanks nerfed a billion times and av buffed Wow cool comeback dude. truly impressive.
NO seriously king how many times have infantry been nerfed at a fundamental level? |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1985
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:51:00 -
[200] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
t
This is the kind of BS tankers want us to believe LOLIf thats true: You tank sucks balls and so do youAnd why do i know its a lie?: I have tried soloing tanks with a LOT of damage at the same time: 4-PE + PRO Packed Grenades + up to 5 PROTO SWARMS WITH PROF AND DAM MODs , and they survive and run away. SURVIVE and RUN AWAY. This means in good theory if he had seen me before i saw him he could have killed me without me able to inflict ANY important damage. I run ADV P/E + Proto SWARMS + Lai Dai Packed nades on an Amarr logi.And even while emptying EVERYTHING tanks have been able to survive. Your pitiful.'' aw gawd my tank gets soloed all the time by 1 AVer'' just makes you look bad, you are not fooling anyone.
On other notes. Yeah tanks need a buff, just not chromo level buff.... First off you need to go talk to any recognizable player in this forum. And ask him who I am. And if I am good. Before you say I suck and do not know what I am doing. Consider me a ******* god compared to your scrawny noobie self. And yes any armor tank can be dropped in 10 seconds by AV. While modules are running. I can run a 4 damage mod LOL Swarm Fire 2 Shots then throw 4 AV nades in 10 seconds.
You might be a god compared to me skill wise, but not a very smart one if you are exposed for so long that gets your tank killed by ONE ;Aver...LOLnot as good as self proclaimed then....
BTW insulting me wont get you nowhere, i dont take any of this personal,not like you... pushed you buttons there scrubby?
Oh im sorry you thought that being skilled made you less of a scrub > LOL |
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1985
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:52:00 -
[201] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
NO seriously king how many times have infantry been nerfed at a fundamental level?
None.I know tanks recieved unesesary nerfs countless times....But what does that has to do with anything, we are discussing TANKS here and AV. not Infantry Dropsuits. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
279
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:53:00 -
[202] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
t
This is the kind of BS tankers want us to believe LOLIf thats true: You tank sucks balls and so do youAnd why do i know its a lie?: I have tried soloing tanks with a LOT of damage at the same time: 4-PE + PRO Packed Grenades + up to 5 PROTO SWARMS WITH PROF AND DAM MODs , and they survive and run away. SURVIVE and RUN AWAY. This means in good theory if he had seen me before i saw him he could have killed me without me able to inflict ANY important damage. I run ADV P/E + Proto SWARMS + Lai Dai Packed nades on an Amarr logi.And even while emptying EVERYTHING tanks have been able to survive. Your pitiful.'' aw gawd my tank gets soloed all the time by 1 AVer'' just makes you look bad, you are not fooling anyone.
On other notes. Yeah tanks need a buff, just not chromo level buff.... First off you need to go talk to any recognizable player in this forum. And ask him who I am. And if I am good. Before you say I suck and do not know what I am doing. Consider me a ******* god compared to your scrawny noobie self. And yes any armor tank can be dropped in 10 seconds by AV. While modules are running. I can run a 4 damage mod LOL Swarm Fire 2 Shots then throw 4 AV nades in 10 seconds.
Nah you suck. Consider ME a god compared to your scrawny noobie tank.
Where do you go of addressing people like that? |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3481
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:54:00 -
[203] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
You might be a god compared to me skill wise, but not a very smart one if you are exposed for so long that gets your tank killed by ONE ;Aver...LOLnot as good as self proclaimed then....
BTW insulting me wont get you nowhere, i dont take any of this personal,not like you... pushed you buttons there scrubby?
Oh im sorry you thought that being skilled made you less of a scrub > LOL
He isn't joking King when we shoot at you half our shots phase right through you. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
169
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:55:00 -
[204] - Quote
This is a really tricky issue and it makes people upset. :( Things are really far from balanced at the moment.
Here are my thoughts on how things should be.
-You can't balance by isk cost initially. Take the PC overlords for example, they effectively have infinite isk. The only way that isk would become an issue would be during extended (weeks or months) campaigns for which we don't have appropriate gameplay. Once things are balanced when cost is not an issue you can then add costs to taste, as a tie breaker or to fine tune how you want various things to be used.
-Player A should be able to take out or neutralise player B if he pulls out scissors to B's paper. This should apply to everything not just AV/tanks. If you have a super shield tank and I have a laser I should have a decent chance or taking you out or at the least making you run away. If you have a tank and I have an appropriate AV weapon then the same should apply. With the appropriate equipment then it should only take one player to deal with another single player. When a single player can neutralise multiple players (be it OP AV or super tanky tanks) then they need an appropriate weakness.
-Tanks don't have a role. They're just giant heavy suits with wheel and bigger guns. They don't do anything special. Dropships can fly and LAVs can go fast but what do tanks do? They kill people just like infantry. They go kinda fast but so do DS and LAVs. They're tough but that doesn't really achieve anything. If we can give tanks a solid role on the battlefield then we can start to balance around that. |
8213
Grade No.2
489
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:57:00 -
[205] - Quote
Common argument is:
HAV costs 500,000-2.5 million ISK. Swarms on a Protobuild costs 150,000 ISK. One player shouldn't be able to destory a HAV with an kind of ease.
However, what if the other team has 5 HAVs on it? This has been happening more and more, because now Squad Finder is making teams of nothing but HAV users.
What if the other team has 10 HAVs on it? All 16 are in HAVs...
So, the other team can't compete against that (especially in Ambush). The only thing that can combat this is to bring in 5, 10, or 16 HAVs on your side...
Eventually DUST will turn into HAV wars as more players finish their Infantry SP Grind and go into Vehicles. After a player hits the 10 million marks, they are safe to start their HAV build... the longer the game goes, the more people will just be using HAVs. |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1985
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:58:00 -
[206] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:
You might be a god compared to me skill wise, but not a very smart one if you are exposed for so long that gets your tank killed by ONE ;Aver...LOLnot as good as self proclaimed then....
BTW insulting me wont get you nowhere, i dont take any of this personal,not like you... pushed you buttons there scrubby?
Oh im sorry you thought that being skilled made you less of a scrub > LOL
He isn't joking King when we shoot at you half our shots phase right through you.
What? Yeah i know, same as swarms being invisible, they are ALL problem thatneeds fix
But True A. You are not following me here. As response from you tankers LOOSING the main argument,you know: '' Why should tankers run solo and AV be done in teams'' You are coming out with all kind of possible arguments that are not to the case...
We all know swarms are invisible, yup
We know rendering is still crap, tank turret hit detection is not as good as it should be.
We all know tanks need buffs
We all know tanks are not worth their ISK price.
But comming to tell me a GOD tanker gets dropped by ONE Avers EVERYTIME in less than 10 secs..? please bro, if thats true then True Adamamance must be the King Of Gods of Tanking ; Surviving multiple Avers with a SCOUT tanks.... |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
3712
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:58:00 -
[207] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:Right I am seeing horrible reasoning If we make it team work and you guys call in 6 tanks we will need 12 to 16 guys in AV to take them all out.
Actually no you would only need 4 smart AV players to clear the field easily. Yes there might be a little choas right away But truely if we mad it using team work where at least 2 AV needed to take down a tank at decent rate of time. 4 good av guys working together would handle 6 tanks no problem.
You do not run around like chickens with your heads cut off you actually play smart. You set up in a location you know a tank is coming to jump it 1 down. You move as a group behind your team next tank comes to kill them you kill it 2 down. pretty soon you have the tanks down to 1 or 2 with just 4 guys. Yes if you run in throwing AV nades sucidal against 2-3 tanks together expect to die.
Just because something takes teamwork does not mean that if there are more then 1 tank in the game that you need to keep doubling to match with AV. Hell it is even better for AV to have more tanks because that means less infantry to counter while setting up to jump tanks.
Sorry your reasoning is thrown out the window.
One thing I expect is during those 30-45 seconds I am running my modules is to be able to take AV fire and push a little help my team. then retreat to recover before my next push. As a smart tanker I will be thinking and looking out for any traps that might happen as I recover. A smart AV team will work to push as I attack but have a guy set up to catch me on retreat when my modules are down and I am easy pickings.
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
During the time I am running my modules I should expect 4-5 guys taking 20 seconds+ to bust my tank. Yes one guy should be able to take me if my pants are down and I am on full cool down but he should be bent over for trying to take me on while I have access to active modules.
If I run a full passive fit I should expect 2 guys take around 20 seconds to drop me 3+ will do quick work.
Remember this is me running full proto and them running full proto.
I do not want to be god but I do expect fo be rewarded for playing smart. And forcing AV players to play just as smart to take me out. Yeah CURRENTLY it only takes 4 AV players to take down LOLTank squads. Now with the an AV nerf and the fact that most tankers want to see ppl have to use 3-4 ppl to take out ONE tank, It WILL take an entire team of AV to deal with them. And BTW it's proto AV. It does it's job. Do you think that they are supposed to tickle? Do you think that they are supposed to fire warning shots to tanks out in the open? And If your tanks modules are down and/or your are retreating then why complain if we destroy your crap Has your IQ dropped to 30? And other than the brown (or blue) aura around your tank when your reppers are on, how do we push together and know when your tank's modules are down? From my 4+ months of tanking I can guarantee that it is not possible.Huh look. My friend named Common Sense grabbed my reasoning and placed it back on the table. Now look, he won't even let your bad reasoning in through the back door. watch the health bar for one, if its refilling reps are on, if your doing less damage than you should be per hit its clear that some kind of hardeners are on, keep up the pressure till the mods hit cooldown then maximize your dps while he's on his cooldown, how do you think dropships kill tanks? by making sure that the tank is always taking damage to reduce the effectiveness of his reps and by hitting them hard when the reps are down, its not hard, in fact if you hadn't figured that out its clearly your competence that is the issue here. |
Void Echo
Blades of Dust
1911
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:58:00 -
[208] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
t
This is the kind of BS tankers want us to believe LOLIf thats true: You tank sucks balls and so do youAnd why do i know its a lie?: I have tried soloing tanks with a LOT of damage at the same time: 4-PE + PRO Packed Grenades + up to 5 PROTO SWARMS WITH PROF AND DAM MODs , and they survive and run away. SURVIVE and RUN AWAY. This means in good theory if he had seen me before i saw him he could have killed me without me able to inflict ANY important damage. I run ADV P/E + Proto SWARMS + Lai Dai Packed nades on an Amarr logi.And even while emptying EVERYTHING tanks have been able to survive. Your pitiful.'' aw gawd my tank gets soloed all the time by 1 AVer'' just makes you look bad, you are not fooling anyone.
On other notes. Yeah tanks need a buff, just not chromo level buff.... First off you need to go talk to any recognizable player in this forum. And ask him who I am. And if I am good. Before you say I suck and do not know what I am doing. Consider me a ******* god compared to your scrawny noobie self. And yes any armor tank can be dropped in 10 seconds by AV. While modules are running. I can run a 4 damage mod LOL Swarm Fire 2 Shots then throw 4 AV nades in 10 seconds. Nah you suck. Consider ME a god compared to your scrawny noobie tank. Where do you go of addressing people like that?
well:
1. he has more likes than you, so its probably that he has more respect overall because his posts appeal to people.
2. hes in imperfects, without a doubt one of the best corps to be in this game even in retirement status.
3. iv never heard of you before a month ago lol.
4. your just making yourself a joke with these threads. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9600
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:59:00 -
[209] - Quote
Want to talk nerfing
I used to remember the days where my heavy suit could eat a railgun shell to the shoulder and live. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3481
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 02:00:00 -
[210] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:True Adamance wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:
You might be a god compared to me skill wise, but not a very smart one if you are exposed for so long that gets your tank killed by ONE ;Aver...LOLnot as good as self proclaimed then....
BTW insulting me wont get you nowhere, i dont take any of this personal,not like you... pushed you buttons there scrubby?
Oh im sorry you thought that being skilled made you less of a scrub > LOL
He isn't joking King when we shoot at you half our shots phase right through you. What? Yeah i know, same as swarms being invisible, they are ALL problem thatneeds fix But True A. You are not following me here. As response from you tankers LOOSING the main argument,you know: '' Why should tankers run solo and AV be done in teams'' You are coming out with all kind of possible arguments that are not to the case... We all know swarms are invisible, yup We know rendering is still crap, tank turret hit detection is not as good as it should be. We all know tanks need buffs We all know tanks are not worth their ISK price. But comming to tell me a GOD tanker gets dropped by ONE Avers EVERYTIME in less than 10 secs..? please bro, if thats true then True Adamamance must be the King Of Gods of Tanking ; Surviving multiple Avers with a SCOUT tanks....
I keep telling you I am not good. Just lucky. |
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