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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
3698
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Posted - 2013.10.21 18:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
so you basically want the vehicles people pour millions of isk and sp into (far more than is required to max the av tree) to be weak and easily taken out by 1 guy? i'm sure people will flock in droves to drive tanks then, and totally won't go "**** this ****" and quit tanking, thus depriving you of your wp source, and thus as is the circle of life, the AV'er will starve and its population will decrease till tanking is once again viable.
also as for your example, perhaps rather than having the entire team dealing with the tanks (wwhich is stupid and the berries deserve to die if this happens) you have 1 squad of 6 people (OMG sensible teamwork) who concentrate thier fire on 1 or 2 tanks, utterly annihilating them then targeting the next one, which given how powerful proto AV is and will probably continue to be won't take that long.
also as for tanker demanding and i quote "MCC level health and resistance", i accuse you of wanting tanks nerfed into the ground so you don't have to work for your WP, two can play at this game.
oh and before you accuse me of being a tanker who wants "MCC level and resistances", i'm a dropship pilot, there's more to the AV/Vehicle dynamic than tanks. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
3702
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Posted - 2013.10.21 20:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:True Adamance wrote:Attim I was starting to like you.... then this....
Auto Locking double DPS weapons that are fire and forget do not deserve to be, nor should have the capability to solo HAV. We need to reach a point of balance where players actually want to deploy tanks to the map, this way we get the fights that we see in trailers.....
However as you and many others would have it. AV dominates the map with no downsides nor need to leave the red line granting free 150 + 50 WP at regular intervals for doing nothing.
Your 500K SP, and 300K ISK investment is denying dynamic gameplay and destroying 10+ Million SP, and destroying 1-2 Million SP vehicles with too much ease.
Swarm Lock time needs an increase, fire rate needs to remain the same, with swarms not making 180- degree turns and able to be unlocked by terrain and such. 1. No downside are you high. The only defense I have is a fking SMG with a 15m optimal range. Any AR user can kill me with little to no effort 2. 500k SP investment? You must be forgetting that to be effective at AV you first have to have at least advanced suits, complex damage mods, shield and/or armor modules so you don't die instantly, and have at least advanced swarms (Standard ones are sh it 3. You guys can redline snipe why can't we redline AV?
The SMG is a very good weapon, you just need to get close, which as an AV class you should be trying to avoid since infantry are your hard counter, you also have the range advantage due to rendering, oh and theres also something called teamwork, get your squad to protect you, that'll stop enemy infantry killing you, letting you focus on the tanks.
everyone of those skills you mentioned (barring swarms of course) is a skill every infantry player will max out anyway to make their main infantry suit better, since AV is predominantly a secondary specialization it means the only skill you really have to focus on is your weapon, the swarm launcher, which as a weapon skill requires relatively little sp to get to lv5.
anyone who redlines snipes/whatever is someone i have no respect for.
oh and one other thing, vehicle users have to split their sp between 2 separate trees, infantry and vehicles, AV'ers on the other hand put all their sp into one tree, infantry. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
3704
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Assault Chileanme wrote:I just have a quick question here about the whole tank vs AV debate, and let me preface it by saying that I would love for it to be balanced completely. I have also never messed with driving a tank and have my swarm skill up to level 3. My perspective for this is coming from playing pub matches as well, so don't apply it to PC since that is quite different.
In my experience, running around with adv swarms with two adv damage mods is still relatively useless against most tanks that I would come across on the battlefield. They either just don't care that I'm there or they scurry away and I can't do anything about it. Again I have not used tanks and perhaps it does take an immense amount of skill to drive a tank at high speeds back into the hills. I rarely even pull out my swarms since they are so ineffective at destroying tanks, the best that I can usually hope for is just to bother the tanker enough that he just runs away and recalls out of fear that he MIGHT lose his tank.
The problems in my experience from an infantry perspective are as follows:
-Tanks are just too fast to be able to destroy. I can get their health down but they can always get away before I can kill them.
-Tanks are too expensive for what they provide. Tank drivers are too worried about losing their precious tanks and therefore behave quite cautiously/selfishly rather than helping their team. On the flip side using price as an argument is pretty ridiculous as well since just because a proto AV fit only costs 200k they are still a lot more likely to get killed trying to kill a tank since they are giving up their anti-personnel capabilities. Despite all of the whining, AV isn't necessarily a bargain compared to tanking.
-Recalling a vehicle is a ridiculous mechanic. I don't think that it should be removed completely, but it should be a much more high risk proposition than it currently is. It should involve and RDV coming down to slowly pick it up or something. As it is now every time a tank gets low they just hurry away and recall and don't have to worry about a thing (other than random teammates sitting in a turret and not getting out).
-If tankers get their way and say that it should require an army to take them down, then AV weapons should be equally effective against infantry. It's not fair to make yourself completely vulnerable to infantry in an effort to take down a tank if you still don't have a chance at killing it alone.
-Once you get more than one tank in a match it is pretty much unbearable to play against as they can't really be stopped without coordination, which you aren't going to get in a pub match.
-Rail sniping is a joke. There is no way to destroy a rail tank in the redline before they just reverse down the hill and out of sight. Again I haven't tried it, but I guess it's just a way for people that aren't good enough to play as infantry or a real tanker to still get some WP.
the only effective way to kill a redline tank that i've found so far is a well timed orbital combined with AV and/or an ADS swooping don on the thing either just before/after the strike or during the strike itself. which means that if the tank is under the MCC it isn't dying, period. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
3712
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Posted - 2013.10.22 01:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:Right I am seeing horrible reasoning If we make it team work and you guys call in 6 tanks we will need 12 to 16 guys in AV to take them all out.
Actually no you would only need 4 smart AV players to clear the field easily. Yes there might be a little choas right away But truely if we mad it using team work where at least 2 AV needed to take down a tank at decent rate of time. 4 good av guys working together would handle 6 tanks no problem.
You do not run around like chickens with your heads cut off you actually play smart. You set up in a location you know a tank is coming to jump it 1 down. You move as a group behind your team next tank comes to kill them you kill it 2 down. pretty soon you have the tanks down to 1 or 2 with just 4 guys. Yes if you run in throwing AV nades sucidal against 2-3 tanks together expect to die.
Just because something takes teamwork does not mean that if there are more then 1 tank in the game that you need to keep doubling to match with AV. Hell it is even better for AV to have more tanks because that means less infantry to counter while setting up to jump tanks.
Sorry your reasoning is thrown out the window.
One thing I expect is during those 30-45 seconds I am running my modules is to be able to take AV fire and push a little help my team. then retreat to recover before my next push. As a smart tanker I will be thinking and looking out for any traps that might happen as I recover. A smart AV team will work to push as I attack but have a guy set up to catch me on retreat when my modules are down and I am easy pickings.
Currently in my armor tank with all modules running fully pimped out reping I can be taken down by a single guy in 10 seconds. Any fully set up AV pro can take me out in 10 seconds while I am running all modules no matter the build.
During the time I am running my modules I should expect 4-5 guys taking 20 seconds+ to bust my tank. Yes one guy should be able to take me if my pants are down and I am on full cool down but he should be bent over for trying to take me on while I have access to active modules.
If I run a full passive fit I should expect 2 guys take around 20 seconds to drop me 3+ will do quick work.
Remember this is me running full proto and them running full proto.
I do not want to be god but I do expect fo be rewarded for playing smart. And forcing AV players to play just as smart to take me out. Yeah CURRENTLY it only takes 4 AV players to take down LOLTank squads. Now with the an AV nerf and the fact that most tankers want to see ppl have to use 3-4 ppl to take out ONE tank, It WILL take an entire team of AV to deal with them. And BTW it's proto AV. It does it's job. Do you think that they are supposed to tickle? Do you think that they are supposed to fire warning shots to tanks out in the open? And If your tanks modules are down and/or your are retreating then why complain if we destroy your crap Has your IQ dropped to 30? And other than the brown (or blue) aura around your tank when your reppers are on, how do we push together and know when your tank's modules are down? From my 4+ months of tanking I can guarantee that it is not possible.Huh look. My friend named Common Sense grabbed my reasoning and placed it back on the table. Now look, he won't even let your bad reasoning in through the back door. watch the health bar for one, if its refilling reps are on, if your doing less damage than you should be per hit its clear that some kind of hardeners are on, keep up the pressure till the mods hit cooldown then maximize your dps while he's on his cooldown, how do you think dropships kill tanks? by making sure that the tank is always taking damage to reduce the effectiveness of his reps and by hitting them hard when the reps are down, its not hard, in fact if you hadn't figured that out its clearly your competence that is the issue here. |
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