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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
852
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Posted - 2013.10.22 10:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
This? Again?
But here is a simple question, why should 1 man in a tank, require more than 1 man with av to neutrilize?
Answers that aren't valid:
I have invested Money and SP
So did the guy using Proto AV
Its a tank
Against anti-tank weaponry
It doesn't fit the rock paper scissors style of this game
Of course it does Infantry < Tank < AV < Infantry
Its supposed to be highly armoured
So is the heavy
Our weapons are useless
The new ones coming soon look pretty damn good to me
I can't fufill my role if I can't stay on the frontline
of course you can, tanks are infantry close support, not muderous juggernauts |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
853
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 16:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:This? Again?
But here is a simple question, why should 1 man in a tank, require more than 1 man with av to neutrilize?
Answers that aren't valid:
I have invested Money and SP
So did the guy using Proto AV
Its a tank
Against anti-tank weaponry
It doesn't fit the rock paper scissors style of this game
Of course it does Infantry < Tank < AV < Infantry
Its supposed to be highly armoured
So is the heavy
Our weapons are useless
The new ones coming soon look pretty damn good to me
I can't fufill my role if I can't stay on the frontline
of course you can, tanks are infantry close support, not muderous juggernauts Why cant the best counter to a tank be another tank? Investing less than 2mil for lolswarms is not an investment when it takes at least 8mil for the basic tank and costs 10times more at least, at least investing in the FG is more of an investement because of the suit Its a tank, meaning its supposed to be the most heavily armored thing on the battlefield, yet it get solo'd frequently because lolbasic vehicle vs proto AV The heavy is not that highly armored, also a scout or medium suit using swarms is not highly armored at all so that goes out the window completely as they bunny hop the map Our weapons are useless, blaster hit detection is poor, railguns have less damage and splash than a FG while costing 10times more in ISK, missiles barely hit infantry half the time unless you get a direct hit and cant kill with splash while the MD can Tanks can't be the best counter because that forces everyone to use a tank. And I don't want to have to pull mine out every time I want to take down an enemy HAV. So if I pay 300k AUR for a BPO with IA Swarm Launchers, Lai Dais, and two complex damage mods, I should be a god killer and be the best because I paid more? LOL NO! Again, it's PRO AV. Should it tickle? Should it fire warning shots? Should I just try spraying and praying with my SMG to let you know that I'm about to fire at you? Has your IQ dropped to 30? It used to be Was awesome back in the day 300k is nothing, i pay upto 2mil for a basic hull/mods and a proto turret which gets outshined by a handheld AV weapon which is cheaper and easier to use Also proto AV vs basic vehicles which cannot be upgraded
"It used to be, was awsome back in the day"
Yeah it used to be awsome for YOU, ever spared a thought for all those poor avers who would have been more effective hurling rocks? All the infantry that had to hide ride round corners!
Also I told you not too use those arguments, they have been dismissed many times. 300k is small in comparison, but your forgetting the sp required for
Proto suit, (to have pg/cpu)
Swarm profciency (for damage)
Swarm ammo (for TIC)
Swarm reload (as above)
Swarm optimization (for pg/cpu)
Weapon upgrades (for dmg mods)
Armour/shield modules (for survivability)
Sidearm modules (as many as swarm modules)
Nanocircuitry (for hives)
Thats for a decent aver, who only runs av. So id say its about even. A tank might be 10x the cost, but a swarmer will probably die a lot more often than 10x per tank he decommissions.
Heavies aren't that heavily armoured, correct, thats the point the HAV of suits isn't as survivable as its lighter counterparts. Your weapons are useless? ******** tell that to the droves of infantry that die to them! Prehaps if you are using missiles against infantry you should try the fragmented, it seems to work pretty well! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
855
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 17:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Commander Tzu wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Why cant the best counter to a tank be another tank?
Investing less than 2mil for lolswarms is not an investment when it takes at least 8mil for the basic tank and costs 10times more at least, at least investing in the FG is more of an investement because of the suit
Its a tank, meaning its supposed to be the most heavily armored thing on the battlefield, yet it get solo'd frequently because lolbasic vehicle vs proto AV
The heavy is not that highly armored, also a scout or medium suit using swarms is not highly armored at all so that goes out the window completely as they bunny hop the map
Our weapons are useless, blaster hit detection is poor, railguns have less damage and splash than a FG while costing 10times more in ISK, missiles barely hit infantry half the time unless you get a direct hit and cant kill with splash while the MD can
Tanks can't be the best counter because that forces everyone to use a tank. And I don't want to have to pull mine out every time I want to take down an enemy HAV. So if I pay 300k AUR for a BPO with IA Swarm Launchers, Lai Dais, and two complex damage mods, I should be a god killer and be the best because I paid more? LOL NO! Again, it's PRO AV. Should it tickle? Should it fire warning shots? Should I just try spraying and praying with my SMG to let you know that I'm about to fire at you? Has your IQ dropped to 30? It used to be Was awesome back in the day 300k is nothing, i pay upto 2mil for a basic hull/mods and a proto turret which gets outshined by a handheld AV weapon which is cheaper and easier to use Also proto AV vs basic vehicles which cannot be upgraded "It used to be, was awsome back in the day" Yeah it used to be awsome for YOU, ever spared a thought for all those poor avers who would have been more effective hurling rocks? All the infantry that had to hide ride round corners! Also I told you not too use those arguments, they have been dismissed many times. 300k is small in comparison, but your forgetting the sp required for Proto suit, (to have pg/cpu) Swarm profciency (for damage) Swarm ammo (for TIC) Swarm reload (as above) Swarm optimization (for pg/cpu) Weapon upgrades (for dmg mods) Armour/shield modules (for survivability) Sidearm modules (as many as swarm modules) Nanocircuitry (for hives) Thats for a decent aver, who only runs av. So id say its about even. A tank might be 10x the cost, but a swarmer will probably die a lot more often than 10x per tank he decommissions. Heavies aren't that heavily armoured, correct, thats the point the HAV of suits isn't as survivable as its lighter counterparts. Your weapons are useless? ******** tell that to the droves of infantry that die to them! Prehaps if you are using missiles against infantry you should try the fragmented, it seems to work pretty well! Well, I know I said I was gonna ignore this thread cause it was getting stupid but I wanna see what kind of backlash I can cause! Anyway, here we go: The SP required for a pure AV fit is less than what you need for a pure tank character. The reason is because tanks really only do one thing, kill stuff. The dropsuits are designed around the idea that one (I am just assuming your using assault suit here, this is less true with Heavies) can fulfill many different roles. The tanks only get three options really, and that's the type of turret they want to use. Sure there are active and passive tanks but those are just two different ways of doing the same thing, like choosing whether to use armor or shield dropsuit, or deciding between using armor plates and shield extenders or shield rechargers/regulators or armor reppers. The SP cost of tanks and dropsuits can't really be compared because the trees are set up around a totally different idea, one is set up so you can have a huge variety of weapons and tactics available to you, the other only really lets you decide between how you wanna kill things and which of the two tanks you want to drive. LAV's and Dropships are in the vehicle skill tree and can add variety but skilling into the standard ones is not really worth it right now unless you just really really like them, almost all the jobs they do can be done just as well as the militia versions for less ISK. LLAV's were once good but that was only because the game engine was kinda screwed when it came to running people over, now it might get a few roadkills but unless your enemy is just newbs or horrible you are probably better off just using a militia lav and getting out to shoot them. BTDubs, if you're trying to make a point as to how many skills dropsuits need, that's kinda hilarious. Tanks had way more skills in Chromosome (Mainly because so many of the upgrade skills now worked for everything then) than they do now and even though we still had a little less, the multipliers were higher to compensate. Only reason we lost those skills is because QQVers.
Prescisely, tanks are already bloody effecient at killing that is why they cost so much money and sp, on scale of usefulness vs sp a tank gets more bang for its buck, av gets well av! All the more reason for Takahiro to STFU!
Oooh, I understand why people like saying that! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
862
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Why cant the best counter to a tank be another tank?
Investing less than 2mil for lolswarms is not an investment when it takes at least 8mil for the basic tank and costs 10times more at least, at least investing in the FG is more of an investement because of the suit
Its a tank, meaning its supposed to be the most heavily armored thing on the battlefield, yet it get solo'd frequently because lolbasic vehicle vs proto AV
The heavy is not that highly armored, also a scout or medium suit using swarms is not highly armored at all so that goes out the window completely as they bunny hop the map
Our weapons are useless, blaster hit detection is poor, railguns have less damage and splash than a FG while costing 10times more in ISK, missiles barely hit infantry half the time unless you get a direct hit and cant kill with splash while the MD can
Tanks can't be the best counter because that forces everyone to use a tank. And I don't want to have to pull mine out every time I want to take down an enemy HAV. So if I pay 300k AUR for a BPO with IA Swarm Launchers, Lai Dais, and two complex damage mods, I should be a god killer and be the best because I paid more? LOL NO! Again, it's PRO AV. Should it tickle? Should it fire warning shots? Should I just try spraying and praying with my SMG to let you know that I'm about to fire at you? Has your IQ dropped to 30? It used to be Was awesome back in the day 300k is nothing, i pay upto 2mil for a basic hull/mods and a proto turret which gets outshined by a handheld AV weapon which is cheaper and easier to use Also proto AV vs basic vehicles which cannot be upgraded "It used to be, was awsome back in the day" Yeah it used to be awsome for YOU, ever spared a thought for all those poor avers who would have been more effective hurling rocks? All the infantry that had to hide ride round corners! Also I told you not too use those arguments, they have been dismissed many times. 300k is small in comparison, but your forgetting the sp required for Proto suit, (to have pg/cpu) Swarm profciency (for damage) Swarm ammo (for TIC) Swarm reload (as above) Swarm optimization (for pg/cpu) Weapon upgrades (for dmg mods) Armour/shield modules (for survivability) Sidearm modules (as many as swarm modules) Nanocircuitry (for hives) Thats for a decent aver, who only runs av. So id say its about even. A tank might be 10x the cost, but a swarmer will probably die a lot more often than 10x per tank he decommissions. Heavies aren't that heavily armoured, correct, thats the point the HAV of suits isn't as survivable as its lighter counterparts. Your weapons are useless? ******** tell that to the droves of infantry that die to them! Prehaps if you are using missiles against infantry you should try the fragmented, it seems to work pretty well! Back in the day i went pure infantry, proto suit/proto breach AR/24mil into pure assault and it was awesome and beast and when i saw i tank i **** myself and ran as fast as i could in the opposite direction because missiles would **** me up, a good hit with e rail would kill me or wipe out my shield tank and blaster would **** You know what i did when SP was 4x the rate it was an unlimited? i went from a tryhard into a vehicle and started to tank so if a tank did pop out i could bring my own out and i liked it so much and went back into tanks Now its like meh, missiles need a direct hit/rail needs a direct hit and maybe blaster is the best for getting at least a good hit on something Also that list is meh to what a basic tank needs, let alone we dont even have the pilot suit yet and dont even know if it will bring any new mods to the table and now our turrets have a few more skills and they have taken out some mods which also require skills and 12 vehicles which also require skills which are supposed to be coming back If you want to say well PG/CPU is a 5x for infantry well good for you at least you get a skill which actually gives bonuses where ours are SP sinks and useless like our turret prof is a bonus to turret rotation speed where as any other prof for a handheld weapon is more damage
So your telling me you enjoyed being on the recieving end of an indestructible tank? Come on, don't give me that. You thought it was fair that if at least 1 tanker on your team your guaranteed failure, you were happy having to run home with a tail between youf legs every time a turret turned to face you? You were happy hiding on maps with no where to get away? Really?
And no the skill tree for infantry is not nothing in comparison! Infact after the changes they will be almost identical! Except for an aver needs to skill 2 light weapons and 1 sidearm to be effective! Tankers won't even fit light turrets to there tanks anymore! As for your complaint about prof not giving damage, you do enough already, passive damage bonuses to a large turret would be broken! Increased tracking speed is very useful!
But this still comes down to a single point!
1 man in a TANK should NOT be additivily worth more than 1 man on the ground!
If you can't understand that then I might as well try and convince white is black, it would be a lot easier to do!
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
872
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 11:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Atiim wrote:Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"
Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.
Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.
So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.
But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.
That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.
Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.
These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.
And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO! LOL You are not a tanker. Stop lying to everybody.
And you are not av, get out of an av thread, jack***
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