It used to be

Was awesome back in the day

300k is nothing, i pay upto 2mil for a basic hull/mods and a proto turret which gets outshined by a handheld AV weapon which is cheaper and easier to use

Also proto AV vs basic vehicles which cannot be upgraded

Tanks can't be the best counter because that forces everyone to use a tank. And I don't want to have to pull mine out every time I want to take down an enemy HAV.

So if I pay 300k AUR for a BPO with IA Swarm Launchers, Lai Dais, and two complex damage mods, I should be a god killer and be the best because I paid more? LOL NO!

Again, it's PRO AV. Should it tickle? Should it fire warning shots? Should I just try spraying and praying with my SMG to let you know that I'm about to fire at you? Has your IQ dropped to 30?

PRO Modules

It used to be

Was awesome back in the day

300k is nothing, i pay upto 2mil for a basic hull/mods and a proto turret which gets outshined by a handheld AV weapon which is cheaper and easier to use

Also proto AV vs basic vehicles which cannot be upgraded

No, but the prices should reflect the effective output of an item, but this has no place in the argument because its a general problem with the game right now.

Tanks can't be the best counter because that forces everyone to use a tank. And I don't want to have to pull mine out every time I want to take down an enemy HAV.

So if I pay 300k AUR for a BPO with IA Swarm Launchers, Lai Dais, and two complex damage mods, I should be a god killer and be the best because I paid more? LOL NO!

Again, it's PRO AV. Should it tickle? Should it fire warning shots? Should I just try spraying and praying with my SMG to let you know that I'm about to fire at you? Has your IQ dropped to 30?

It used to be

Was awesome back in the day

300k is nothing, i pay upto 2mil for a basic hull/mods and a proto turret which gets outshined by a handheld AV weapon which is cheaper and easier to use

Also proto AV vs basic vehicles which cannot be upgraded

"It used to be, was awsome back in the day"

Yeah it used to be awsome for YOU, ever spared a thought for all those poor avers who would have been more effective hurling rocks? All the infantry that had to hide ride round corners!

Also I told you not too use those arguments, they have been dismissed many times. 300k is small in comparison, but your forgetting the sp required for

Proto suit, (to have pg/cpu)
Swarm profciency (for damage)
Swarm ammo (for TIC)
Swarm reload (as above)
Swarm optimization (for pg/cpu)
Weapon upgrades (for dmg mods)
Armour/shield modules (for survivability)
Sidearm modules (as many as swarm modules)
Nanocircuitry (for hives)

Thats for a decent aver, who only runs av. So id say its about even. A tank might be 10x the cost, but a swarmer will probably die a lot more often than 10x per tank he decommissions.

Heavies aren't that heavily armoured, correct, thats the point the HAV of suits isn't as survivable as its lighter counterparts. Your weapons are useless? ******** tell that to the droves of infantry that die to them! Prehaps if you are using missiles against infantry you should try the fragmented, it seems to work pretty well!

Well, I know I said I was gonna ignore this thread cause it was getting stupid but I wanna see what kind of backlash I can cause! Anyway, here we go:

The SP required for a pure AV fit is less than what you need for a pure tank character. The reason is because tanks really only do one thing, kill stuff. The dropsuits are designed around the idea that one (I am just assuming your using assault suit here, this is less true with Heavies) can fulfill many different roles. The tanks only get three options really, and that's the type of turret they want to use. Sure there are active and passive tanks but those are just two different ways of doing the same thing, like choosing whether to use armor or shield dropsuit, or deciding between using armor plates and shield extenders or shield rechargers/regulators or armor reppers. The SP cost of tanks and dropsuits can't really be compared because the trees are set up around a totally different idea, one is set up so you can have a huge variety of weapons and tactics available to you, the other only really lets you decide between how you wanna kill things and which of the two tanks you want to drive. LAV's and Dropships are in the vehicle skill tree and can add variety but skilling into the standard ones is not really worth it right now unless you just really really like them, almost all the jobs they do can be done just as well as the militia versions for less ISK. LLAV's were once good but that was only because the game engine was kinda screwed when it came to running people over, now it might get a few roadkills but unless your enemy is just newbs or horrible you are probably better off just using a militia lav and getting out to shoot them.

BTDubs, if you're trying to make a point as to how many skills dropsuits need, that's kinda hilarious. Tanks had way more skills in Chromosome (Mainly because so many of the upgrade skills now worked for everything then) than they do now and even though we still had a little less, the multipliers were higher to compensate. Only reason we lost those skills is because QQVers.

this is not how New Eden is working, your point is null and void.

"It used to be, was awsome back in the day"

Yeah it used to be awsome for YOU, ever spared a thought for all those poor avers who would have been more effective hurling rocks? All the infantry that had to hide ride round corners!

Also I told you not too use those arguments, they have been dismissed many times. 300k is small in comparison, but your forgetting the sp required for

Proto suit, (to have pg/cpu)
Swarm profciency (for damage)
Swarm ammo (for TIC)
Swarm reload (as above)
Swarm optimization (for pg/cpu)
Weapon upgrades (for dmg mods)
Armour/shield modules (for survivability)
Sidearm modules (as many as swarm modules)
Nanocircuitry (for hives)

Thats for a decent aver, who only runs av. So id say its about even. A tank might be 10x the cost, but a swarmer will probably die a lot more often than 10x per tank he decommissions.

Heavies aren't that heavily armoured, correct, thats the point the HAV of suits isn't as survivable as its lighter counterparts. Your weapons are useless? ******** tell that to the droves of infantry that die to them! Prehaps if you are using missiles against infantry you should try the fragmented, it seems to work pretty well!

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

[quote=Atiim]Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

you sir are an idiot. that being said, you are a troll. did you forget the cost of a tank? how about we make swarms 2 mill isk and 10 mill sp to use? sorry you cant do your 360 no-scope with a basic swarm and solo tanks and infantry. this is dust, if you hate vehicles then go back to COD.

you sir are an idiot. that being said, you are a troll. did you forget the cost of a tank? how about we make swarms 2 mill isk and 10 mill sp to use? sorry you cant do your 360 no-scope with a basic swarm and solo tanks and infantry. this is dust, if you hate vehicles then go back to COD

ps: i tank and use AV. i solo them and i get solod by them. AV needs a COMPLETE rework. i bet you never even drove a tank.

1. No downside are you high. The only defense I have is a fking SMG with a 15m optimal range. Any AR user can kill me with little to no effort

2. 500k SP investment? You must be forgetting that to be effective at AV you first have to have at least advanced suits, complex damage mods, shield and/or armor modules so you don't die instantly, and have at least advanced swarms (Standard ones are shit

3. You guys can redline snipe why can't we redline AV?

Back in the day i went pure infantry, proto suit/proto breach AR/24mil into pure assault and it was awesome and beast and when i saw i tank i **** myself and ran as fast as i could in the opposite direction because missiles would **** me up, a good hit with e rail would kill me or wipe out my shield tank and blaster would ****

You know what i did when SP was 4x the rate it was an unlimited? i went from a tryhard into a vehicle and started to tank so if a tank did pop out i could bring my own out and i liked it so much and went back into tanks

Now its like meh, missiles need a direct hit/rail needs a direct hit and maybe blaster is the best for getting at least a good hit on something

Also that list is meh to what a basic tank needs, let alone we dont even have the pilot suit yet and dont even know if it will bring any new mods to the table and now our turrets have a few more skills and they have taken out some mods which also require skills and 12 vehicles which also require skills which are supposed to be coming back

If you want to say well PG/CPU is a 5x for infantry well good for you at least you get a skill which actually gives bonuses where ours are SP sinks and useless like our turret prof is a bonus to turret rotation speed where as any other prof for a handheld weapon is more damage

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

LOL You are not a tanker. Stop lying to everybody.

Many loltankers say "We should be able to solo you and you shouldn't because we're just dumb"

Well lets name the most common example of AV (with swarms). You are mid range (because long range swarms are easily avoidable), the tank is firing at you and so are the enemy infantry. If you are really lucky then you are able to wail on the tank, and destroy it, which most times is not the case. We will be gunned down by infantry long before this happens.

Now lets name the perfect example (The ones people QQ about). The tank drives in a wide open field. Not paying attention, the Swarms wail on him to death with everything it's got, and the tanker QQs about being destroyed.

So CCP listens to thier BS reasons and balance AV around teamwork. So for arguments sake, lets say that it now takes 3 people (half a squad) to tank out a tank. The LOLTank squad now uses 5-6 tanks, and we all have to use teamwork to defeat them.

But it is "balanced" to force 3 people to take out ONE Tank.

That would mean 15-16 people on AV just to deal with them (WHICH IS ONE ENTIRE TEAM!). And what about the enemy infantry? You think that they are just gonna sit there and watch the fireworks? NO!! They will go after all the objectives while the tanks freely stomp everyone without good AV resistance.

Then you have the drug users who say MLT AV OHKO's thier "good" loltank. Well the only way to OHKO a "good" loltank would be to have Profecincy lvl 4 or 5 and a complex damage mod.

These loltankers want tanks to become god and have MCC level health and resistance. They know what would happen if we "balance" AV this way. Don't let them stomp us! AV users unite! Let your voice be heard and put this evil to rest.

And if CCP does listen to the tankers and tanks become the most OP thing in video game history, I'm gonna file a help ticket and Demand 1B ISK and 1M AUR, as well as a store front picture on the market of me saying I TOLD YOU SO!

AV is supposed to be buffer damage to assist your allied armor in taking out enemy tanks.

Sorry that you want to camp on a tower spamming the right trigger thinking you're good.

So your telling me you enjoyed being on the recieving end of an indestructible tank? Come on, don't give me that. You thought it was fair that without at least 1 tanker on your team your guaranteed failure, you were happy having to run home with a tail between youf legs every time a turret turned to face you? You were happy hiding on maps with no where to get away? Really?

And no the skill tree for infantry is not nothing in comparison! Infact after the changes they will be almost identical! Except for an aver needs to skill 2 light weapons and 1 sidearm to be effective! Tankers won't even fit light turrets to there tanks anymore! As for your complaint about prof not giving damage, you do enough already, passive damage bonuses to a large turret would be broken! Increased tracking speed is very useful!

But this still comes down to a single point!
1 man in a TANK should NOT be additivily worth more than 1 man on the ground!
If you can't understand that then I might as well try and convince white is black, it would be a lot easier to do!

And you are not av, get out of an av thread, jack***

Dumbass HAV drivers need to stop cheering about being able to take the Small Turrets off their tanks and grow a damn brain.

If it has 3 seats, don't you think that's part of the balance for them? Why the hell aren't you getting squad members to occupy those and help defend you from AV?

Dumbass HAV drivers need to stop cheering about being able to take the Small Turrets off their tanks and grow a damn brain.

If it has 3 seats, don't you think that's part of the balance for them? Why the hell aren't you getting squad members to occupy those and help defend you from AV?