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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9590
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Posted - 2013.10.21 20:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Should be team work on both sides of the equation.
Teamwork to kill a tank.
Teamwork to make a tank effective.
No team = Useless tank
Wonder what would happen if you gave infantry the anti-missile flare launcher and the bubble shield strong enough to deflect forge gun shots, smoke rounds, infantry having the only ability to resupply vehicles, and rebooting their repair systems?
No team the tank becomes an expensive gun on wheels.
However the tank must become far more capable of supporting its host as well. Extra transport spots, deployable bunker walls, sensors, structure removal like blowing up a gate or taking out heavily armored turrets that are self repairing.
Long range artillery tank? Have spotters and guide the shots in.
Pesky aircraft? Have laser designators to guide missiles in.
Need to short range fire fight, have infantry help pump the coolant to the blasters to keep them from overheating and lowering their overheat seizing.
We need more interplay overall. A first start would be having passengers able to fire in a non turret seat. making non turret seats on specialist vehicles meaningful (logi turret) (ewar manager) Mine layers and EOD infantry. The list can go on and on. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9591
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Should be team work on both sides of the equation.
Teamwork to kill a tank.
Teamwork to make a tank effective.
No team = Useless tank
Wonder what would happen if you gave infantry the anti-missile flare launcher and the bubble shield strong enough to deflect forge gun shots, smoke rounds, infantry having the only ability to resupply vehicles, and rebooting their repair systems?
No team the tank becomes an expensive gun on wheels.
However the tank must become far more capable of supporting its host as well. Extra transport spots, deployable bunker walls, sensors, structure removal like blowing up a gate or taking out heavily armored turrets that are self repairing.
Long range artillery tank? Have spotters and guide the shots in.
Pesky aircraft? Have laser designators to guide missiles in.
Need to short range fire fight, have infantry help pump the coolant to the blasters to keep them from overheating and lowering their overheat seizing.
We need more interplay overall. A first start would be having passengers able to fire in a non turret seat. making non turret seats on specialist vehicles meaningful (logi turret) (ewar manager) Mine layers and EOD infantry. The list can go on and on. Exactly! Sure but are you saying the a tanker my risk his ISK on the luck of his team being intelligent enough to know when to activate internal tank functions? If so I'm giving up right now. Sounds cool but impractical.
Infantry have to risk their wallet rely on a scout reliably deploying a drop uplink in a safe spot. Infantry have to rely on their squad mates scans are good coverage to prevent getting flanked. Infantry have to rely on their logi-bros to keep them in the game. Infantry have to rely on their team mates not dying in stupid hard to reach areas to revive them. Infantry have to rely on their teammates from not dropping a bad orbital on their heads. Anti-infantry infantry have to rely on their AV infantry to kill tanks that are murdering the crap out of their teams and doing so allows them to spend isk and SP into being specialist in killing other players or facilitating combat.
Cost wise, infantry have the highest cost potential over even the most expensive HAVs. Case in point officer weapons. Kill a guy with balac's and you could have set him back 20-30-40? matches? They don't drop often anymore. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9591
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Infantry have to risk their wallet rely on a scout reliably deploying a drop uplink in a safe spot. Infantry have to rely on their squad mates scans are good coverage to prevent getting flanked. Infantry have to rely on their logi-bros to keep them in the game. Infantry have to rely on their team mates not dying in stupid hard to reach areas to revive them. Infantry have to rely on their teammates from not dropping a bad orbital on their heads and cost wise, have the highest cost potential over even the most expensive HAVs. Case in point officer weapons. Kill a guy with balac's and you could have set him back 20-30-40? matches? They don't drop often anymore. I do plenty fine with my infantry builds without relying on ANY teammates, not in any coordinated fashion anyways. Infantry are just fine by themselves, and if they want to bring officer gear to a pub that's their own damn fault if they lose it. Officer gear =/= vehicles
isk wise? you're right officer gear about 20-40x more in cost.
I mean what you just said is like trying to compare a megathron to a daredevil. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9593
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:The legend345 wrote:
Thus tank vs tank becomes more important. Which is a positive thing!!! That's how tanking was in chromosome, minus the overpowered rail factor, tanks had to focus on other tanks because is you let one go unmatched it could do some damage.
Chromosome tanks were notorious for being OP. It was so bad that CCP had to remove marauder tanks from the game. Proto Tanks need come back. Why cant we have proto too?
They got replaced by lolforcers |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9594
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Posted - 2013.10.22 00:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
There has to be a way to lessen the gap between easy and impossible to kill. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9597
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Posted - 2013.10.22 01:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Infantry have to risk their wallet rely on a scout reliably deploying a drop uplink in a safe spot. Infantry have to rely on their squad mates scans are good coverage to prevent getting flanked. Infantry have to rely on their logi-bros to keep them in the game. Infantry have to rely on their team mates not dying in stupid hard to reach areas to revive them. Infantry have to rely on their teammates from not dropping a bad orbital on their heads and cost wise, have the highest cost potential over even the most expensive HAVs. Case in point officer weapons. Kill a guy with balac's and you could have set him back 20-30-40? matches? They don't drop often anymore. I do plenty fine with my infantry builds without relying on ANY teammates, not in any coordinated fashion anyways. Infantry are just fine by themselves, and if they want to bring officer gear to a pub that's their own damn fault if they lose it. Officer gear =/= vehicles isk wise? you're right officer gear about 20-40x more in cost. I mean what you just said is like trying to compare a megathron to a daredevil. Well I'm just trying to wrap my head around your original comment then, maybe I just misread it. I thought who you were responding to whoever was saying how we would have to rely on infantry to keep us alive by using Anti AV gear to help us out, which would indicate that tanks are still **** all easy to kill, but you now have to pray your blues are on point (in squad or not). My response was more or less saying that infantry don't have to rely on other infantry to nearly such an extent, especially when ISK is factored in. People who are good don't die a whole lot, and tend to rely more on themselves than others. Tanks right now are laughably easy to kill in most situations (speaking as a proto AV user and someone with a reasonable amount of SP in tanks already) As it stands a tanker has to be 100% on point the entire game, in comms, calling out enemies and watching for any and all AV, watching for remote explosives as they book it around the field, watching out for terrain because stopping = death, which can be hard to do when driving backwards full speed trying to shoot that AV guy as you try to duck around a corner. Your cooldowns have to be hit at the perfect time, and you better pray your modules don't glitch. This all comes with a massive ISK tag to it. Proto AV just feels entirely too strong, from both ends of the spectrum.
I won't discount you guys get @#$%^ on easily. However I have seen situations where the players doing the @%# got @#$ in return by a different tank pilot. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9600
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 01:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Want to talk nerfing
I used to remember the days where my heavy suit could eat a railgun shell to the shoulder and live. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9600
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 02:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Imps who?
Talking about imps is like talking about band of brothers in eve. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9601
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well you have your Soma at standard, Madrugger at adv and Surya/Falcion at proto. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9601
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well you have your Soma at standard, Madrugger at adv and Surya/Falcion at proto.
I bet you if they ever do add what you guys want standard/adv/proto tanks all of them will have the same HP, Speed, Performance, Stats like infantry do with only one major defining change between each tier, slots and fit.
Which last I check is probably going to be worse than what you guys currently have. Wait you are saying the Enforcers are proto? They are worse than standard. But the issue is where are the Marauders now? Will they come back, will I get my goddamn respect for the changing of skills and general bullshit.
To argue otherwise would be to call the Surya and Sagaris Militia tanks as well and anyone who had to face these things back in beta will abosultely laugh at the idea of such classification.
They're both in the same tier very different stats to which the stats on the enforcer are lol worthy. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9601
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Commander Tzu wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well you have your Soma at standard, Madrugger at adv and Surya/Falcion at proto. Um, wrong, the Soma is actually Militia, so it's less than standard which leaves the Madrugar as the standard level and the Surya at Advanced. And yea Enforcers suck so they aren't exactly "Advanced", why do you think they are being removed with all the other vehicle variants that don't work?
Most Milita = Standard with a slight notch in it. Which comes in the form of higher fitting which at low level don't matter jack much. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9604
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well you have your Vayu/Falcion at militia, Sica/Soma at standard, and Gunnlogi/Madrugger at adv. fixed it for you
Stats wise maybe, tree wise far from. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9604
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 03:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:I have a Falchion at Level 3 with proto missile turrets, two 30% hardeners, 6300 Shields and 2 Damage mods but it wasn't enough to destroy a Ion Cannon Madrugar with 5000 Armor + Proto Rep + 2 hardeners... I TRIED MY BEST DAMN IT.
I am scared to **** of madrugers in my sica, I only ever managed to kill them when I shove three full vollies into their pipes before the rdv dropped it off. |
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