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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 178 post(s) |
Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
939
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Posted - 2014.08.31 05:58:00 -
[21181] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:because they play with risk
I'm not sure what part of "I am in the burn zone, not in the redline, and have absolutely zero cover from most of my spots" isn't getting communicated clearly... all it takes is someone to look at the range I killed them from and look up. As stated, I've been forged off my spots, 80gj railed off my spots, ADS'd off my spots, LASER RIFLED off my spots. And, of course, sniped off my spots. There's plenty of risk involved. You knock me off that spire, I'm not going back up there - I know you know where to look for me, and I don't necessarily know where you got me from. Thus, killing me once has effectively ended my sniping campaign on most maps (at which point I start trying to stab all the things).
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
939
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Posted - 2014.08.31 06:02:00 -
[21182] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:next step is to shade out where you can't actually hit target 
Right. Those rings look about right, but now you consider all of the obstructions and cover a target can run into/move behind. Even with such a high perch, I don't just have a clear shot at everything. Hell, shooting from Charlie CRU to Alpha on Fracture Road is a very opportunistic thing with all the pipes in the way. At that range, I basically need someone standing still at the blaster turret installation or the supply depot so I can get that headshot, which is so much more difficult now with the circle reticule. Also, at that range, both mercs and the environment renders VERY poorly. Almost as badly as shooting down at the green mushroom dome on the maps where Bravo is inside that building - you know the one. Gal Research Facility, is it? Help me out here, Apps, the one where if you're beyond 250m (and you ALWAYS will be from any perch high enough to look down on it) you can't see ANYTHING uness it's standing right on the edge of the mushroom because it simply won't render for you?
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Venerable Phage
Red Shirts Away Team
250
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Posted - 2014.08.31 06:30:00 -
[21183] - Quote
Just had a quick half game... Had to go halfway through a skirmish. But I was 12/1 top of the board just using proto knives, advanced Minimatar suit, and a pair of basic KinCats.
Just one of those games when I was in the zone and timed runs right.
My take on 514:
Five Empires, One Dead, Four Alive
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
480
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Posted - 2014.08.31 06:37:00 -
[21184] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:voidfaction wrote:because they play with risk I'm not sure what part of "I am in the burn zone, not in the redline, and have absolutely zero cover from most of my spots" isn't getting communicated clearly... all it takes is someone to look at the range I killed them from and look up. As stated, I've been forged off my spots, 80gj railed off my spots, ADS'd off my spots, LASER RIFLED off my spots. And, of course, sniped off my spots. There's plenty of risk involved. You knock me off that spire, I'm not going back up there - I know you know where to look for me, and I don't necessarily know where you got me from. Thus, killing me once has effectively ended my sniping campaign on most maps (at which point I start trying to stab all the things). And you play in a scout suit do you not?
Or have you gone the route led by appia to use a heavy suit for more dmg and greater eHP since you will not need mobility sniping where your only likely to be hit by snipers?
My gripe is not against targets that can be taken out with a counter sniper. Not even if they are in the redline as those are my favorites. It's the heavies in the redline or towers that anything short of a dropship can't take them out. They are not going to limit sniper to low eHP toons so pulling them out of the redline or off the towers is the only way to fix the problem.
You have Nkers, AR, CR, etc etc that can't take out a scout sniperis as well and don't think it is right the sniper can kill them from 600m but they can't kill them.
should it take a tank to kill a tank? If so then remove all infantry AV
should it take a sniper to kill a sniper? if so give them enough dmg to 1 shot a full tanked heavy and let them keep 600m range
as long as a heavy can use a sniper rifle from 600m they will be.
not everyone wants balance they want to exploit everything because they know deep down they suck so have to have every advantage.. that is why you see so many qsynced proto stompers in pubs. they don't want fair matches. they want to be bullies. They say its because they have so much isk but as I have found FW has less proto. Makes sense right.
You think snipers have really high K/D because they are good? LOL
No its because they are super low risk. low risk deserves less dmg not more dmg. low risk need pulled into higher risk.
tanks and dropships have more risk than snipers lets give them back 600m rail guns and forget about balancing AV weapons.
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
941
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Posted - 2014.08.31 06:41:00 -
[21185] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:Right-wing Extremist wrote:voidfaction wrote:because they play with risk I'm not sure what part of "I am in the burn zone, not in the redline, and have absolutely zero cover from most of my spots" isn't getting communicated clearly... all it takes is someone to look at the range I killed them from and look up. As stated, I've been forged off my spots, 80gj railed off my spots, ADS'd off my spots, LASER RIFLED off my spots. And, of course, sniped off my spots. There's plenty of risk involved. You knock me off that spire, I'm not going back up there - I know you know where to look for me, and I don't necessarily know where you got me from. Thus, killing me once has effectively ended my sniping campaign on most maps (at which point I start trying to stab all the things). And you play in a scout suit do you not? Or have you gone the route led by appia to use a heavy suit for more dmg and greater eHP since you will not need mobility sniping where your only likely to be hit by snipers? I stopped reading here. Yes, I've switched to the Calmando for the damage bonus - not for the eHP. I still get OHK'd by a headshot from a Charge or Thale's, 2HK from Ishukone sniper, 3HK from Kaalakiota TAC SR, OHK by Forge gun, OHK by 80gj rails, 2-3HK by militia small missiles on lavs or ADS...
Have died every time someone looked up and saw me.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Cass Caul
1022
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Posted - 2014.08.31 06:49:00 -
[21186] - Quote
You know what would do a great job of balancing heavy frames with sniper rifles?
let the sniper rifle do enough damage that they can be killed with a single headshot. Liquid Fox88 did a great job explaining it here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2333506#post2333506
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4648
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Posted - 2014.08.31 06:54:00 -
[21187] - Quote
I personally wouldn't mind if high proficiency Charged Sniper Rifle headshot OHK'd all.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
480
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Posted - 2014.08.31 06:57:00 -
[21188] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:I personally wouldn't mind if high proficiency Charged Sniper Rifle headshot OHK'd all.
with that ringing it is a ULTRA HIGH RISK weapon. Real life loss of hearing risk that is.
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
480
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Posted - 2014.08.31 07:09:00 -
[21189] - Quote
I would sign off on that.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16250
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Posted - 2014.08.31 08:50:00 -
[21190] - Quote
I disagree with OHK weapons especially if said weapons are extremely hard to register point of origin. Which is why i haven't protested any forge gun changes focused on making them less of a sniper weapon.
I want enough meta to allow players to have a chance to change the meta of their survival on the field from a sniper; but I want to bring snipers up to the point that the opportunity to strike down a player is considerably fair.
2-3 (4 being the most extreme wcs) body shots
1-2 head shots (3 shouldn't happen period)
Now if we want to discourage sentinels from using snipers we could try to convince CCP Ratatti taking a look at discouraging fitting bonuses for echo (double light weapon fitting for sentinels for example)
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
943
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Posted - 2014.08.31 09:30:00 -
[21191] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:2-3 (4 being the most extreme wcs) body shots
1-2 head shots (3 shouldn't happen period) )
That's where we are now, except 3 DOES happen, frequently.
And no, IWS, that's NOT what a top-tier sniper rifle with millions of SP investment in the role should be.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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voidfaction
Nos Nothi
480
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Posted - 2014.08.31 10:00:00 -
[21192] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:voidfaction wrote:Right-wing Extremist wrote:voidfaction wrote:because they play with risk I'm not sure what part of "I am in the burn zone, not in the redline, and have absolutely zero cover from most of my spots" isn't getting communicated clearly... all it takes is someone to look at the range I killed them from and look up. As stated, I've been forged off my spots, 80gj railed off my spots, ADS'd off my spots, LASER RIFLED off my spots. And, of course, sniped off my spots. There's plenty of risk involved. You knock me off that spire, I'm not going back up there - I know you know where to look for me, and I don't necessarily know where you got me from. Thus, killing me once has effectively ended my sniping campaign on most maps (at which point I start trying to stab all the things). And you play in a scout suit do you not? Or have you gone the route led by appia to use a heavy suit for more dmg and greater eHP since you will not need mobility sniping where your only likely to be hit by snipers? I stopped reading here. Yes, I've switched to the Calmando for the damage bonus - not for the eHP. I still get OHK'd by a headshot from a Charge or Thale's, 2HK from Ishukone sniper, 3HK from Kaalakiota TAC SR, OHK by Forge gun, OHK by 80gj rails, 2-3HK by militia small missiles on lavs or ADS... Have died every time someone looked up and saw me.
So I take it the little added dmg is not worth the low survivability of being slow, and scanned by everything. calmando for the dmg but lacks more in survivability when a sitting duck than the regualar HP stacked heavy snipers.
It takes one shot and I almost always know where the sniper is. I have read if you die in one shot you don't get direction indicator. I seem to get them almost every time and almost always a 1 hit kill to snipers. Might be headshots dont have indicator. half the time just seeing the kill feed tells you where the sniper is. proto or thales start looking in the redline if not there look in the towers. I die in the enemy redline with my thales just to pop them in the head with it from 1m.
If your not going to stack HP than a heavy is not the best sniper. sure you can get 40 more dmg with a lvl 5 calmando and a thales but you lose more than you gain.
looks good by dmg numbers and that is it. 961 eHP is not worth it IMO. unless you got a logi repairing while sitting on repair hives.
I think you would have been better off using your min scout running around with sniper / smg while hacking. ignoring the heavy snipers as they are about not dieing not highest dmg.
I can do well enough with 2x cDMG on my gal scout with kal sniper vs real players and ignoring the KDR heavy snipers.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16250
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Posted - 2014.08.31 10:04:00 -
[21193] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:2-3 (4 being the most extreme wcs) body shots
1-2 head shots (3 shouldn't happen period) ) That's where we are now, except 3 DOES happen, frequently. And no, IWS, that's NOT what a top-tier sniper rifle with millions of SP investment in the role should be.
Forgot to add within tier.
So an advanced shooting a basic fit should shave a shot off. Proto would deal with the most extreme in that manner and officer should be close to dealing the person in.
Inversely don't be expecting a militia sniper to deal with a tanked proto or officer level suit.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
943
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Posted - 2014.08.31 10:17:00 -
[21194] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Inversely don't be expecting a militia sniper to deal with a tanked proto or officer level suit.
Of course not. But at current, the Thale's and Charge SRs perform terribly against HP stacked STD and BPO suits.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16250
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Posted - 2014.08.31 10:32:00 -
[21195] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Inversely don't be expecting a militia sniper to deal with a tanked proto or officer level suit. Of course not. But at current, the Thale's and Charge SRs perform terribly against HP stacked STD and BPO suits.
and this should be fixed.
Ultimately though while you may have spent millions into your sniper there should be some reward for those that spend their millions in their tanking as well.
Anyways...
I drafted up this resource to help out
I didn't bother with medium suits since they're going to have ehp values between.
Min fits is to help account for bad less than spectacular fits
The max fits is to help cover an expected average tank range.
Then of course the most extreme case scenario is listed as well.
Page 2 is TL;DR version
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0
Going to do some damage models tommorrow and see if I hit all the needed goals.
Meanwhile
Magazine sizes? should they change at all?
Fitting I know is about right for the weapon; its one of the least complained about things about it. Though its always an option to use as a nerf I rather not do so as creating too high of a compromise in basic suit functionality and making the assault the de facto sniper because of the fitting bonus.
I think Charge can use a damage buff but lower mag and would pull a shot ahead of the baseline within tier
Tacticals a higher mag but not as much as a buff as the other snipers and pull a shot behind baseline within tier
and regular snipers remain about the same and become the baseline for the buff in base damage and headshot bonus with earlier stated goals within tier.
Thale's should be scary.
Thoughts?
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16251
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Posted - 2014.08.31 10:48:00 -
[21196] - Quote
On a separate subject; the desire to reduce power projection fo the sniper rifle is heavily warranted.
However so has the conversation that mostly deals with the nature of the sniper itself and the relationship it has with the game.
In all honesty the redline is a poor mechanic on many levels.
The maps do not cater to the play style
and sniper play style is currently rather unique to dust 514 (I do not recall any other shooter lately that shares similar stabilizing mechanics with our rail gun sniper rifle)
then rendering issues as well; one example is trails cannot be seen if shooter is out of render distance making the shot invisible by all accounts if you cannot see the point in origin.
Another conversation I often see missed is sniper victims. Often this conversation doesn't come up often is because snipers are really in a poor state. The ones complaining are in similar nature to the snipers themselves that the fact their game play cannot be appreciated is why they don't feel valued either when they lack the ability to kill the sniper with any of the tools they currently have. To pre-emptively silence the potential future sniper victims is a risky move but with hot fixes getting workload wise larger with every turn I don't want to risk seeing this game turn into Sniper 514.
I doubt the suggestions going forward initially and then the added community forge hammer applied to it would lead to sniper 514 but that is something that has to get into our hands to see happen.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
3387
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Posted - 2014.08.31 11:18:00 -
[21197] - Quote
While you're here Wolf, I'd like ask you something completely unrelated.
Has there been any discussions on the whole Assault dropship skill stacking thing? Are the cpm/ccp opposed or for it? (I know Judge is for, but he's far too biased in this case)
Or has it just never been brought up?
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Bayeth Mal
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1344
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Posted - 2014.08.31 11:43:00 -
[21198] - Quote
Changed corp tag :)
We'll bang, OK?
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
943
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Posted - 2014.08.31 12:20:00 -
[21199] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:So I take it the little added dmg is not worth the low survivability of being slow, and scanned by everything. calmando for the dmg but lacks more in survivability when a sitting duck than the regualar HP stacked heavy snipers.
It takes one shot and I almost always know where the sniper is. I have read if you die in one shot you don't get direction indicator. I seem to get them almost every time and almost always a 1 hit kill to snipers. Might be headshots dont have indicator. half the time just seeing the kill feed tells you where the sniper is. proto or thales start looking in the redline if not there look in the towers. I die in the enemy redline with my thales just to pop them in the head with it from 1m.
If your not going to stack HP than a heavy is not the best sniper. sure you can get 40 more dmg with a lvl 5 calmando and a thales but you lose more than you gain.
looks good by dmg numbers and that is it. 961 eHP is not worth it IMO. unless you got a logi repairing while sitting on repair hives.
I think you would have been better off using your min scout running around with sniper / smg while hacking. ignoring the heavy snipers as they are about not dieing not highest dmg.
I can do well enough with 2x cDMG on my gal scout with kal sniper vs real players and ignoring the KDR heavy snipers.
If you're taken by a headshot, there's no hit marker. I've been OHK by body shots in my less-than-200-eHP scout suit, and you do indeed briefly see the hit marker indicating direction of attack.
I've seen you through my sniper scope, that time we were in squad together. You also run under 200 HP, or maybe just above it. So aye, you should see the direction because when they see we've got so little shield/armor hp, they don't bother looking for the headshot.
VF, mate, you don't snipe often enough in the current meta to have a clue what you're talking about. At Prof 3 with a Charge, at Calmando 3 in a neo ck.0 suit, I'm OHK'ing on a headshot where with 3x complex damage mods on my Minja suit I was tagging the headshot and watching them run behind cover with between 0-30 armor HP remaining. 40 damage is bloody well worth it.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Bayeth Mal
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1344
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Posted - 2014.08.31 13:15:00 -
[21200] - Quote
When occasionally I do snipe I very rarely take body shots.
Just shooting at everyone you can or taking body shots simply tells everyone "hey, sniper over here, just thought I should let everyone know where I'm at".
But then again I also avoid sniping from skyline positions or anywhere I really have to expose myself, and never stay in one place more than 50% of the match.
Though I do tend to mostly counter snipe or shoot people camping on roofs. When I've gone over to the enemy redline and fired back into the centre of my map I've one shotted people, had them get rezed and then take cover on the wrong side thinking I fired from our redline. So obviously they're not getting the directional marker.
We'll bang, OK?
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
943
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Posted - 2014.08.31 14:14:00 -
[21201] - Quote
Bayeth Mal wrote:When I've gone over to the enemy redline and fired back into the centre of my map I've one shotted people, had them get rezed and then take cover on the wrong side thinking I fired from our redline, where I then kill them again. So obviously they're not getting the directional marker.
It's very, very brief but it's there - next time we're on together, we should go into an FW. You spawn in a militia suit and I'll demonstrate it - you'll know what direction I'm in to begin with so you'll know where to expect the hit marker to flash. I swear it's there (I've seen it often enough, but never when I go straight to 'clone terminated' (which is the other indicator of a headshot)
Jaceon Pale-eye.
And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
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Bayeth Mal
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1344
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Posted - 2014.08.31 14:34:00 -
[21202] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:Bayeth Mal wrote:When I've gone over to the enemy redline and fired back into the centre of my map I've one shotted people, had them get rezed and then take cover on the wrong side thinking I fired from our redline, where I then kill them again. So obviously they're not getting the directional marker. It's very, very brief but it's there - next time we're on together, we should go into an FW. You spawn in a militia suit and I'll demonstrate it - you'll know what direction I'm in to begin with so you'll know where to expect the hit marker to flash. I swear it's there (I've seen it often enough, but never when I go straight to 'clone terminated' (which is the other indicator of a headshot)
I should have phrased better, I'm agreeing with you, OHK head shots don't give a directional marker, but yeah, if I'm body shot in a scout fit there's like a 0.25 second moment before the death screen and you get the marker then.
I should have said:
Bayeth Mal wrote: I've OHK head shotted people,
We'll bang, OK?
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4653
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Posted - 2014.08.31 15:31:00 -
[21203] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Thoughts?
1. That's a really useful HP table :-)
2. The Thale's shouldn't be factored into balance discussions.
3. Would prefer a big headshot bonus over a small damage bonus + small headshot bonus.
4. Defer on clip size. Perhaps increase tactical variant by 1 or 2?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4656
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Posted - 2014.08.31 15:49:00 -
[21204] - Quote
Thank goodness he hasn't bought the bullsh*t.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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mollerz
5227
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Posted - 2014.08.31 16:36:00 -
[21205] - Quote
I feel like there's a good ginger ale joke hidden in here.
Coiled and Ready to Strike
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
3666
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Posted - 2014.08.31 17:25:00 -
[21206] - Quote
Someone with Gal Scout questions could use some help.
You can always tell a Millford Minja
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icdedppul
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
164
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Posted - 2014.08.31 17:51:00 -
[21207] - Quote
On snipers
as a sniper victim (running suits with <400hp, some times in the 200s) my only complaint is I cant do anything to fight back
normally I wouldn't care the odd time I get hit is my own fault for being in their view as most of us know where we can get shot by snipers.
except when they have a view of some of the funnest areas for infantry combat, there is nothing quite annoying as having a very intense gun battle suddenly cut short by someone not even playing the game
and I cant do anything about it, he is so far into the redline that even fully kinkatted I wont be able to reach an kill him in the 20s I have back there
on buffing the sniper rifle I would rather see a HS bonus increase vs damage, I get OHKed body shot enough already, reward skill not some scrub spamming sniper bullets at soft targets |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1697
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Posted - 2014.08.31 18:06:00 -
[21208] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Charles EWAR updated to reflect bugged CalScout range vs intended CalScout range.
What happened to the old version? I liked that one
My Youtube
Biomassed Podcast
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4663
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Posted - 2014.08.31 18:08:00 -
[21209] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Charles EWAR updated to reflect bugged CalScout range vs intended CalScout range. What happened to the old version? I liked that one
Pages hidden in favor of summary grid.
I'll unhide 'em for you post haste.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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J0LLY R0G3R
And the ButtPirates
1193
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Posted - 2014.08.31 18:55:00 -
[21210] - Quote
Just play on same squad as Shotty, u'll never have to worry about snipers again.
XD
J0LLY is a Streaker
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