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Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 122	Posted - 2014.06.12 12:11:00 - [15301] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? If sniper rifles are to be buffed, then they need their range nerfed to force people to come out of the redline. Nah, not a range nerf. The red lines need to get peeled back a bit (a lot) on some (most) of the maps. Ground spawn plus the area where you land when dropping out of the MCC, plus 50m toward the enemy base and 10 meters in the opposite direction.. That should be the red line. No more than that. Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 913	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:18:00 - [15302] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? If you want opinions on sniper rifles, I'm sure you'd find the majority of people would agree with Moody's video The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5207	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:21:00 - [15303] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? Minmatar Scout is practically useless outside of pubs. I'm not kidding. I haven't even played much Dust after Alpha due to it. Been playing EVE. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 913	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:21:00 - [15304] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Ground spawn plus the area where you land when dropping out of the MCC, plus 50m toward the enemy base and 10 meters in the opposite direction.. That should be the red line. No more than that. That will just make people not use sniper rifles. The sole problems are with the fact you have to crouch to be even slightly effective with them which forces people to want to just camp. What's the best place to camp? Obviously a place that the enemy team can't shoot at you. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3577	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:30:00 - [15305] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? Scope sway is my largest problem with the SR. Head shot bonus would be a good thing. How am holding up as a scout Gal - Great though I find it interesting that I now have a greater capacity to brick tankGÇª I don't but it is easy to do Cal - Great easier than ever before Amarr - Really no change except traded out damps for more eHPGÇª pretty sure that was not the point of Alpha but Damps are less valuable than eHP Minja - See Ghosts response he is right KRRROOOOOOM
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1727	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:47:00 - [15306] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? On Sniper Rifles + Increase Zoom Fidelity + Increase Headshot Multiplier * May add more after watching Moody's video (thx Thunder!) On Post-Alpha Scouts, Upsides * Scout Suit is arguably no longer FoTM; GalScout is absolutely no longer FoTM. * Cloak duration nerf was well-measured; fire-from-cloak appears to have been resolved. * GalScout remains good at sneaking, but can no longer do so with massive HP reserves. On Post-Alpha Scouts, Downsides * MinScout is now PG-starved (moreso than before) due to need to fit ADV/PRO cloak. * Hiding from CalScouts requires too much investment on the part of the MinScout. * A larger percentage of "Old Scouts" now favor HP modules over other modules. On Post-Alpha Scouts, Consensus * We've yet to reach consensus on how to fix the CalScout and MinScout. * We've yet to reach consensus on a meaningful role for the Amarr Scout. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Haerr Legio DXIV 815	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:58:00 - [15307] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? (From my POV) The changes to the dampening bonus on cloak fields hit the Amarr and Minmatar scouts harder than anyone else. The changes to the Gallente dampening bonus is fine. The changes to the Gallente scan range bonus is not as annoying as I suspected it would be. The changes to armour modules is pretty neat as ferroscales and reactives are now useful. It still feels like the basics armour plates are to useful for the cpu/pg they take up. On the scanning changes: please consider removing the dampening bonus on the Gallente scout and reducing the bonus to the Caldari scout's scan precision & reducing the bonus to the Gallente logistics bonus to scan precision on active scanners. The reason being that somewhere close to giving up half your module slots or two module slots + a prototype cloak there is a breaking point for most fits where they quite simply are no longer competitive. Removing slow down on hit is making a huge difference, even though the CCP guys have said that they've removed it from all weapons it still feels like you sometimes still 'get stuck' when someone is shooting at you. Sprint bugs are still here, the one you have to crunch then jump to get rid of seems to have made a come back and the other one where you are doing something and then start sprinting and you do the 'heavy walk' while stamina is draining is still here in full force. Still getting stuck on corners sometimes. But even with all these problems just getting rid of slow down on hit feels like a major improvement. I've tried out the AR for a bit both on a Gallente assault suit and on the scout suit; Can't really tell if the assault bonus to the AR is working or not it just seems to be working similar regardless of which suit you are in. Also can't say that I'm noticing the buff to the ARs damage. The fitting space on the assault suit is pitiful compared to any other type of suit, please fix. The Sniper Rifle - the weapon that came prefitted on our Arbiter starter fits and where ?most? of us scouts started out. Can't really say, hardly ever use it anymore, not sure I even have a fit with one. I do have it skilled up though, it's just not a very fun weapon to use on most maps, if it was more useful closer to the fights I'd probably have a fitting with one.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5212	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:19:00 - [15308] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? Oh Yeah, Sniper Rifles. Base damage is fine IMO. Just take the headshot multiplier TO THE MOON. Seriously, you give them the ability to hit for 700-800 damage with a headshot, and people WILL start using them again. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Appia Nappia 915	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:21:00 - [15309] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? oh! oh! oh! pick me! pick me! Sniper Rifle is absolutely terrible. DUST514 is basically the only game where a headshot doesn't kill you in 1 hit. My STD scout suits (which I have all 4 of) are surviving headsots from Ishukone and Kaalakiota sniper rifles. They're also surviving body shots from the Charge Sniper Rifle and Thale's TAR-07 Sniper Rifle I've posted the damage calculations all over the forums for the past 13 months. The damage does not scale at all. The numbers were absolutely wonderful in Chromosome but the average suit HP has dramatically increased since then. It got so much worse when they buffed armor plates. And again when they changed the damage from +/-0 to -10/+10. The STD Tactical Sniper Rifle needs to kill the average STD suit with a headshot. The STD Sniper Rifle needs to kill the average STD suit in 2 body shots The ADV Tactical Sniper Rifle needs to kill the average ADV suit with a headshot. The ADV Sniper Rifle needs to kill the average ADV suit in 2 body shots The Kaalakiota Tactical Sniper Rifle needs to kill the average PRO suit with a headshot The Ishukone Sniper Rifle needs to kill the average PRO suit with 2 body shots The Charge Sniper RIfle should be killing an lightly tanked Medium Frame with 1 body shot, a heavily tanked medium frame with a headshot and it should kill a heavy in 2 headshots But aside from the fact that Prototypes Snipers are annoying little flies buzzing about me that can't even kill my G-I Scout, the rendering is just absolutely embarrassing. Z-fighting on Surface Installations, people don't appear outside 200 meters unless your squadmates has scanned them first. Counter Sniper is nearly impossible and just ridiculous. Sniper v Sniper combat isn't about DPS or Alpha Damage... it's all about who renders who first. Oh, almost forgot about range. 599m is absolutely nothing. It may seem like a lot on, say Manus Peak- Domination, where both sides spawn within 300m of eachother, but for the new maps it isn't even half the distance across the field. The fact that some devs tried to specifically take away sniper's perches or stopped sniper from shooting into a null cannon console and added walls so no one could be up high. . . there are very few places to be useful. Or that a fricken Scrambler Rifle with its charge shot makes a better sniper than a sniper rifle because of the crap-tastic rendering system forcing you in way too damn close for a weapon that has no reticle for hip-fire. Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 125	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:27:00 - [15310] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Ground spawn plus the area where you land when dropping out of the MCC, plus 50m toward the enemy base and 10 meters in the opposite direction.. That should be the red line. No more than that. That will just make people not use sniper rifles. The sole problems are with the fact you have to crouch to be even slightly effective with them which forces people to want to just camp. What's the best place to camp? Obviously a place that the enemy team can't shoot at you. Sniping in a scout suit (none of this super tanked proto logi or commando bullshit - though I WILL eventually rock the Caldari commando suit for sniping due to the rail damage bonus), I don't do the redline. I move out along the ridge, I take a Myron to a good vantage point, I get down in between shipping crates, I creep around with the SMG in between vantage points, I hack objectives and CRUs and then run to a vantage point to snipe the guy who comes to hack it back. If a scrub wants to stop sniping because there's no more cozy little redline where I can't run up behind him and knife him in the neck, then good. Snipers need to GOML and be useful to their team or find some other way to puff up their KDR (like it matters if your team loses - "We lost, but I went 30/0 with my Thales lolololol") Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(

Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5212	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:35:00 - [15311] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Ground spawn plus the area where you land when dropping out of the MCC, plus 50m toward the enemy base and 10 meters in the opposite direction.. That should be the red line. No more than that. That will just make people not use sniper rifles. The sole problems are with the fact you have to crouch to be even slightly effective with them which forces people to want to just camp. What's the best place to camp? Obviously a place that the enemy team can't shoot at you. Sniping in a scout suit (none of this super tanked proto logi or commando bullshit - though I WILL eventually rock the Caldari commando suit for sniping due to the rail damage bonus), I don't do the redline. I move out along the ridge, I take a Myron to a good vantage point, I get down in between shipping crates, I creep around with the SMG in between vantage points, I hack objectives and CRUs and then run to a vantage point to snipe the guy who comes to hack it back. If a scrub wants to stop sniping because there's no more cozy little redline where I can't run up behind him and knife him in the neck, then good. Snipers need to GOML and be useful to their team or find some other way to puff up their KDR (like it matters if your team loses - "We lost, but I went 30/0 with my Thales lolololol") Roam Sniper is Best Sniper Still, Headshot damage needs a HUGE buff. When I'm stacking damage mods and aiming for center mass instead of going for headshots somethings wrong. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 126	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:40:00 - [15312] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Roam Sniper is Best Sniper Still, Headshot damage needs a HUGE buff. When I'm stacking damage mods and aiming for center mass instead of going for headshots somethings wrong. Totally agree. I don't have proto rifle yet unless I use AUR or grind Caldari LP, so I'm sighing in dismay when I still haven't dropped a militia heavy after three headshots. Really liking what Appia said re: where the variants' damage should be for head- and body shots. Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1735	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:40:00 - [15313] - Quote @ Appia / Haerr / Brothers Now that Bravo's locked down, let's get back to business :-) Appia's Proposal is the closest we've come to consensus on the MinScout / CalScout problem (here's Haerr's Interpretation as well). We've also gathered new information in that changes to Scan Mechanics are off-the-table (included shared passive scans). Let's pick up where we left off and figure this sht out before non-Scouts (well intended or not) figure it out for us ... Appia's proposal removes the role of ghost from Gal and splits the role of recon between Gal and Cal. I'm very much in favor of fixing Cal precision to help the MinScout, but I am wholly opposed to its diluting its role in recon. Similarly, I'm opposed to throwing away a perfectly good Scout role (ghost). Here's how I see Scouts Gal - Ghost * Cal - Recon * Min - Ninja * Amr - Biotic -- or -- Tank Here's my counterproposal * Gal - Ghost (bonus profile dampeners and cloak duration) * Cal - Recon (bonus to scan precision and range) * Min - Ninja (bonus to hacks and knives) * Amr - Biotic (bonus to all biotics) -- or -- Tank (bonus to armor penalty) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 127	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:50:00 - [15314] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Counter Sniper is nearly impossible and just ridiculous. Sniper v Sniper combat isn't about DPS or Alpha Damage... it's all about who renders who first. Agree with pretty much all that you said, but I wanted to comment on this point. It's definitely who renders who first, but I have had some success with counter-sniper work - situationally. If I'm running about, hacking and stabbing and melting militia suits with my RS-90, and in the killfeed I'm seeing a particular sniper just getting his rocks off, I'll try to get an idea of where he's at. I'll watch for bodies to go flying without a tank or forge gun being involved and look in the direction opposite where the body flew. If I see a squadmate fall to the sniper via the killfeed, I'll yell into comms if I have to to try and get an indication of where he was when he died (and thus, where vantages with a clear shot at that location might be). I don't find the sniper every time, but when I suicide to spawn in my sniper fit, the enemy sniper has already settled in and gotten lazy. He scanned for snipers when he first started and is comfortable that he's an apex predator with no competition. Then s/he catches a headshot as soon as I find him or her. Most hostile snipers hang it up after that rather than try to find me... but I'll stick around and watch A: their perch and B: the path from their ground spawn or MCC dropzone (whichever's closer) to the perch and catch them coming back to it - unless I've already seen their drop uplink through my scope, then I just watch that. The problem I have is when it's a super tanked Logi or a Commando or, jfs a bloody basic heavy suit and that first headshot doesn't kill them. I know from playing on another character that even a charge won't OHK one of these targets on a headshot. In those cases, I rarely get the kill, but they go put their Thale's away in a hurry. Also, Tactical sniper rifle's ROF is too slow, imo. Shouldn't be full auto, but should be a lot more rapid. Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 127	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:57:00 - [15315] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Notes * Keeps things simple (easy to understand and easy to pitch to Rattati). * Solves the CalScout / MinScout problem using Appia's figures. * Shifts the CalScout from role of Scout Hunter to role of Recon Expert. * Permits the GalScout a meaningful bonus that will keep him fun and competitive. * Moves discussions forward on the topic of Amarr Scout. I suck at maths, so forgive me but could you clarify/confirm the following: The numbers Appia posted in her spreadsheet mean that CalScout would no longer be able to see a scout running damps (instead of tank/biotics/codebreakers), even with nothing but PEs across their highs, but would still see scouts who weren't damped? Am I understanding that correctly? Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1735	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:59:00 - [15316] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Notes * Keeps things simple (easy to understand and easy to pitch to Rattati). * Solves the CalScout / MinScout problem using Appia's figures. * Shifts the CalScout from role of Scout Hunter to role of Recon Expert. * Permits the GalScout a meaningful bonus that will keep him fun and competitive. * Moves discussions forward on the topic of Amarr Scout. I suck at maths, so forgive me but could you clarify/confirm the following: The numbers Appia posted in her spreadsheet mean that CalScout would no longer be able to see a scout running damps (instead of tank/biotics/codebreakers), even with nothing but PEs across their highs, but would still see scouts who weren't damped? Am I understanding that correctly? That's the goal ... I'll check the math ... Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 129	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:03:00 - [15317] - Quote If it's so, and CCP actually does it, I think we should start a campaign to replace CCP Hilmar with CCP Appia as CEO of the company. Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1735	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:07:00 - [15318] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: If it's so, and CCP actually does it, I think we should start a campaign to replace CCP Hilmar with CCP Appia as CEO of the company. If you've nothing to contribute, then go back to the kid's table. The adults are trying to work here :-) Edit: Obvious jest is obvious. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3582	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:11:00 - [15319] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: If it's so, and CCP actually does it, I think we should start a campaign to replace CCP Hilmar with CCP Appia as CEO of the company. If you've nothing to contribute, then go back to the kid's table. The adults are trying to work here :-) Edit: Obvious jest is obvious. Hit the sauce early today KRRROOOOOOM
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1737	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:13:00 - [15320] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Hit the sauce early today Lol ... no. Just want to get this ball rolling before I leave for work :-) @ Haerr The Min/Max Scenario I'm envisioning is ... Non-GalScout + 2 Cmp Damps + Proto Cloak evades Max CalScout GalScout + 2 Cmp Damps + Any Cloak evades Max CalScout I don't have enough time to nail down the exact percentages. Will do it later if need be. Does this OK to everyone? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Llast 326 An Arkhos 3582	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:17:00 - [15321] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Hit the sauce early today Lol ... no. Just want to get this ball rolling before I leave for work :-) @ Haerr The Min/Max Scenario I'm envisioning is ... Non-GalScout + 2 Cmp Damps + Proto Cloak evades Max CalScout GalScout + 2 Cmp Damps + Any Cloak evades Max CalScout I don't have enough time to nail down the exact percentages. Will do it later if need be. Does this OK to everyone? Basic goal looks good to me Will toss down some non-math related ideas (which are essentially a compilation of many thoughts that have been presented by Bastards lately that I think could form an overall awesome interplay) KRRROOOOOOM
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 130	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:33:00 - [15322] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The basic premise is that the "ghost" part of being a GalScout means he can get away with running a lower-end cloak. The recon-savvy CalScout can still hunt Scouts who fail to dampen, but in a more balanced manner than at present (i.e. he has to commit more highs to the hunt, and still can't detect those who sufficiently dampen). Does this sound OK to everyone? Seems fair to me! Fit for stealth or fit for tank, but not both and all scouts have the option of being stealthy and scouting or being light assaults. Seems like everybody wins. Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
Haerr Legio DXIV 815	Posted - 2014.06.12 17:05:00 - [15323] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia / Haerr / Brothers Now that Bravo's locked down, let's get back to business :-) Appia's Proposal is the closest we've come to consensus on the MinScout / CalScout problem (here's Haerr's Interpretation as well). We've also gathered new information in that changes to Scan Mechanics are off-the-table (included shared passive scans). Let's pick up where we left off and figure this sht out before non-Scouts (well intended or not) figure it out for us ... Appia's proposal removes the role of ghost from Gal and splits the role of recon between Gal and Cal. I'm very much in favor of fixing Cal precision to help the MinScout, but I am wholly opposed to its diluting its role in recon. Similarly, I'm opposed to throwing away a perfectly good Scout role (ghost). Here's how I see Scouts Gal - Ghost * Cal - Recon * Min - Ninja * Amr - Biotic -- or -- Tank Here's my Counter Proposal * Gal - Ghost (bonus profile dampeners and cloak duration) * Cal - Recon (bonus to scan precision and range) * Min - Ninja (bonus to hacks and knives) * Amr - Biotic (bonus to all biotics) -- or -- Tank (bonus to armor penalty) Notes * Keeps things simple (easy to understand and easy to pitch to Rattati). * Solves the CalScout / MinScout problem using Appia's figures. * Shifts the CalScout from role of Scout Hunter to role of Recon Expert. * Permits the GalScout a meaningful bonus that will keep him fun and competitive. * Moves discussions forward on the topic of Amarr Scout. Proposition Gino GOOGLE DOCS Gallente Scout - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 15% -> 0% Caldari Scout - Bonus to GÇÿScan PrecisionGÇÖ 25% -> 0% Caldari Scout - Bonus to GÇÿPrecision EnhancerGÇÖ efficacy 0% -> 25% Focused Active Scanner - GÇÿScan PrecisionGÇÖ 20 dB -> 22 dB Advanced Cloak Field - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 5% -> 7.5% Prototype Cloak Field - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 10% -> 15% What is Gino? Gino is a swedish dessert! RECIPE For bonus points put sliced almonds on top of the white chocolate! (Or serve with pre roasted sliced almonds on the side.)
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3586	Posted - 2014.06.12 18:18:00 - [15324] - Quote Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia / Haerr / Brothers Now that Bravo's locked down, let's get back to business :-) Appia's Proposal is the closest we've come to consensus on the MinScout / CalScout problem (here's Haerr's Interpretation as well). We've also gathered new information in that changes to Scan Mechanics are off-the-table (included shared passive scans). Let's pick up where we left off and figure this sht out before non-Scouts (well intended or not) figure it out for us ... Appia's proposal removes the role of ghost from Gal and splits the role of recon between Gal and Cal. I'm very much in favor of fixing Cal precision to help the MinScout, but I am wholly opposed to its diluting its role in recon. Similarly, I'm opposed to throwing away a perfectly good Scout role (ghost). Here's how I see Scouts Gal - Ghost * Cal - Recon * Min - Ninja * Amr - Biotic -- or -- Tank Here's my Counter Proposal * Gal - Ghost (bonus profile dampeners and cloak duration) * Cal - Recon (bonus to scan precision and range) * Min - Ninja (bonus to hacks and knives) * Amr - Biotic (bonus to all biotics) -- or -- Tank (bonus to armor penalty) Notes * Keeps things simple (easy to understand and easy to pitch to Rattati). * Solves the CalScout / MinScout problem using Appia's figures. * Shifts the CalScout from role of Scout Hunter to role of Recon Expert. * Permits the GalScout a meaningful bonus that will keep him fun and competitive. * Moves discussions forward on the topic of Amarr Scout. Proposition Gino GOOGLE DOCS Gallente Scout - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 15% -> 0% Caldari Scout - Bonus to GÇÿScan PrecisionGÇÖ 25% -> 0% Caldari Scout - Bonus to GÇÿPrecision EnhancerGÇÖ efficacy 0% -> 25% Focused Active Scanner - GÇÿScan PrecisionGÇÖ 20 dB -> 22 dB Advanced Cloak Field - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 5% -> 7.5% Prototype Cloak Field - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 10% -> 15% What is Gino? Gino is a swedish dessert! RECIPE For bonus points put sliced almonds on top of the white chocolate! (Or serve with pre roasted sliced almonds on the side.) Will make that next week Yummeh Here Gino is a Sicilian man who owns a lot of property, and has a number of "business ventures". It is best if Gino likes you, and you do not interfere with "business" KRRROOOOOOM
Appia Nappia 918	Posted - 2014.06.12 18:50:00 - [15325] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Hit the sauce early today Lol ... no. Just want to get this ball rolling before I leave for work :-) @ Haerr / Appia / Numbers Guys The Min/Max Scenario I'm envisioning is ... Non-GalScout + 2 Damps + Proto Cloak evades Max CalScout GalScout + 2 Damps + Any Cloak evades Max CalScout I don't have enough time to nail down the exact percentages right now. Will do it later. The basic premise is that the "ghost" part of being a GalScout means he can get away with running a lower-end cloak. The recon-savvy CalScout can still hunt Scouts who fail to dampen, but in a more balanced manner than at present (i.e. he has to commit more highs to the hunt, and still can't detect those who sufficiently dampen). Does this sound OK to everyone? absolute quickest way to do this: Caldari Scout 4% to efficacy of Precision Enhancers per level Gallente Scout +1% to Dampening Bonus on cloaks per level Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5216	Posted - 2014.06.12 18:57:00 - [15326] - Quote Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia / Haerr / Brothers Now that Bravo's locked down, let's get back to business :-) Appia's Proposal is the closest we've come to consensus on the MinScout / CalScout problem (here's Haerr's Interpretation as well). We've also gathered new information in that changes to Scan Mechanics are off-the-table (included shared passive scans). Let's pick up where we left off and figure this sht out before non-Scouts (well intended or not) figure it out for us ... Appia's proposal removes the role of ghost from Gal and splits the role of recon between Gal and Cal. I'm very much in favor of fixing Cal precision to help the MinScout, but I am wholly opposed to its diluting its role in recon. Similarly, I'm opposed to throwing away a perfectly good Scout role (ghost). Here's how I see Scouts Gal - Ghost * Cal - Recon * Min - Ninja * Amr - Biotic -- or -- Tank Here's my Counter Proposal * Gal - Ghost (bonus profile dampeners and cloak duration) * Cal - Recon (bonus to scan precision and range) * Min - Ninja (bonus to hacks and knives) * Amr - Biotic (bonus to all biotics) -- or -- Tank (bonus to armor penalty) Notes * Keeps things simple (easy to understand and easy to pitch to Rattati). * Solves the CalScout / MinScout problem using Appia's figures. * Shifts the CalScout from role of Scout Hunter to role of Recon Expert. * Permits the GalScout a meaningful bonus that will keep him fun and competitive. * Moves discussions forward on the topic of Amarr Scout. Proposition Gino GOOGLE DOCS Gallente Scout - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 15% -> 0% Caldari Scout - Bonus to GÇÿScan PrecisionGÇÖ 25% -> 0% Caldari Scout - Bonus to GÇÿPrecision EnhancerGÇÖ efficacy 0% -> 25% Focused Active Scanner - GÇÿScan PrecisionGÇÖ 20 dB -> 22 dB Advanced Cloak Field - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 5% -> 7.5% Prototype Cloak Field - Bonus to GÇÿScan ProfileGÇÖ 10% -> 15% What is Gino? Gino is a swedish dessert! RECIPE For bonus points put sliced almonds on top of the white chocolate! (Or serve with pre roasted sliced almonds on the side.) I like this. A lot. All they need to do after this is adjust min scout PG and change base hack to 1.25 and I'll be happy Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3586	Posted - 2014.06.12 18:57:00 - [15327] - Quote So this is some of the ideas that I have seen that I think are feasible and may work well together. I am not digging back through stuff o cite or credit the brilliant folk who come up with these ideas but you know who you are and be proud If one of your ideas is not here it's not necessarily because it is bad (though it might be) it's because It did not fit within the concept, or i forgot about it. Always feedback, tell me I am an idiot (yes Appia I know ) *Assume the balance numbers that Appia and Haerr have/are working are applied. Preface - I believe that Precision and Dampening are the most powerful tools that scouts have and many of the problems we face revolve around these bonuses. For this reason I feel that the Gal and Cal scouts should only have one bonus while the Min and Amarr scouts can have two bonuses as a balance factor. Gal Scout - Dampening bonus as per Math folks (Tied to Module use) The Gal scout has enough intrinsic bonuses to not warrant the range bonus, Dampening itself is one of the most potent bonuses Scouts can have, couple this with a fitting capacity that most easily accommodates the Proto Cloak and Gal is in a good place still. Cal Scout - Precision bonus as per Math folks (tied to Module use) Without the range bonus the Precision becomes more balanced, while the ability to increase range can be achieved through modules. Shared scans can likely remain without being a shutdown to all scouts, as every scout would have a viable way to counter Precision, though not without making sacrifices in fitting choice. Amarr Scout - Stamina bonus as is now (not tied to Module bonus), Range Amplification bonus (tied to Module use) The reason for not requiring the Stamina bonus to be tied to Module use is that really the Amarr does not need a Jar to function, and keeps it's fitting versatility this way. Fitting versatility is one of the strengths of the Amarr suit that is overlooked, I do not want to inadvertently nerf this aspect. The Range bonus gives an EWAR Bonus to the Amarr scout, something that many feel it is lacking. This also plays to the group function of the Amarr, and helps it support it's team. Min scout - Hacking Bonus (tied to Codebreaker?), Nova Knife Bonus (Obviously tied to Nova Knife use) The question of 'if the Hacking bonus needs to be tied to the Codebreaker for the Min' arises because the NK bonus already requires a specific fitting requirement to be usefulGÇª so input? The other problem the Min faces is the ability to fit what it needs, hence the calls for a PG buff. This does not need to be a huge buff in PG, but the strengths of the Min suit requires more high PG items, coupled with the slot layout this creates a PG deficit that needs addressing. I suggest the same PG as the Cal scout, which would be a 2/3/4 for Basic/Adv/Proto. I think this would place all scouts in a good place internally (Scouts to Scouts), But i would appreciate and remind us to look at how this would be Externally (Scouts to Everything else) KRRROOOOOOM
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 545	Posted - 2014.06.12 20:34:00 - [15328] - Quote I got my golden ticket in my email this morning. Did anybody else get into the Destiny "alpha"? Heading over to Destiny Beta and a few others Hit me up for Skype and PSN
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1964	Posted - 2014.06.12 21:44:00 - [15329] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Those of you wondering bravo seems to be locking up and get getting hammered out now; it wont be long before we start talking about charlie. I wonder what you guys think of the sniper rifles and what should happen those? Also how are scouts holding up after alpha so far? Minmatar Scout is practically useless outside of pubs. I'm not kidding. I haven't even played much Dust after Alpha due to it. Been playing EVE. The only thing I would disagree with Ghost about is the viability of the suit below proto in pubs for those that aren't on his skill level. At least in previous iterations, I could be uber squishy and stealthy. Now I am just a squishy bullseye. I could go on, but I will leave it at that. As a result, I am pretty much done in game for awhile. No sense in frustrating myself and knowing any relief isn't likely just around the corner. The REAL Internet King
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 893	Posted - 2014.06.12 22:14:00 - [15330] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: I got my golden ticket in my email this morning. Did anybody else get into the Destiny "alpha"? Just got mine, downloading now. 3 hrs to go lol. Anyone else playing over on the ps4? PS4 psn = J0LLYxR0G3R Underscore before and after the x



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