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Gregor stormwalker Closed Beta Retirement Home 125	Posted - 2015.05.15 15:31:00 - [151] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Dragonet Minamoto wrote: Avallo Kantor wrote: Robert Conway wrote: How would Officer suits work due to their unique style? Officer dropsuits have unique slot configurations. Powercores (as proposed) do not have the ability to modify slot layout. As such, Officer Dropsuits would still be separate. Powercores, as currently described, only enhance PG/CPU layout, which in combination with a 'teiricide' effort would effectively reduce the number of dropsuits from 120 down to a handful. Brilliant idea. But why couldn't certain power cores not also unlock slots. I mean the dropsuit could already have all slots coded into, but they are "offline" until powered up by a certain power core. So a prototype power core gives + x power grid, + x CPU and power, +1 additional high slot etc. You could easily argue that with lower power cores, the suit can't handle all slots filled. Sounds viable to me without complicating the whole approach too much. But even the original idea would be much better than what we have now! Because getting rid of slot progression is the point To my mind the brilliance of this idea is in the memory saving by off loading the PG/CPU to a module their is little reason why slot layout can not also be off loaded, In fact if you do not how do you give a logie more equipment slots than an assault with out having 2 suits of the same size with different slot layouts. also a better name than "powercores" would be "sub-system" so you choose/skill into your base suit then equip/skill a sub system for that suit (Gallente assault sub system).
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9980	Posted - 2015.05.15 15:32:00 - [152] - Quote kiarbanor wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I'm going to flat out say no the APEX being advanced cores. There must be a better way. Yeah, I can't think of one. I know the standard BPO modules that can't be put on any other suit will not be enough. So, there has to be something else I'm not thinking. As of right now with this idea, the only difference between a standard BPO and an Apex BPO are the standard BPO modules/weapons. Let's say you use standard non-BPO modules/weapons on a standard BPO. How much would that cost? Like 20k ISK? That's not enough to justify the time or money spent on Apex's. The inherent problem here is APEX suits were designed without tiericide in mind, and by introducing tiericide is hard to fix APEX suits. This will be on my mind all day, I'd like to find a solution without scrapping them and giving refunds. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9980	Posted - 2015.05.15 15:33:00 - [153] - Quote Gregor stormwalker wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Dragonet Minamoto wrote: Avallo Kantor wrote: Robert Conway wrote: How would Officer suits work due to their unique style? Officer dropsuits have unique slot configurations. Powercores (as proposed) do not have the ability to modify slot layout. As such, Officer Dropsuits would still be separate. Powercores, as currently described, only enhance PG/CPU layout, which in combination with a 'teiricide' effort would effectively reduce the number of dropsuits from 120 down to a handful. Brilliant idea. But why couldn't certain power cores not also unlock slots. I mean the dropsuit could already have all slots coded into, but they are "offline" until powered up by a certain power core. So a prototype power core gives + x power grid, + x CPU and power, +1 additional high slot etc. You could easily argue that with lower power cores, the suit can't handle all slots filled. Sounds viable to me without complicating the whole approach too much. But even the original idea would be much better than what we have now! Because getting rid of slot progression is the point To my mind the brilliance of this idea is in the memory saving by off loading the PG/CPU to a module their is little reason why slot layout can not also be off loaded, In fact if you do not how do you give a logie more equipment slots than an assault with out having 2 suits of the same size with different slot layouts. also a better name than "powercores" would be "sub-system" so you choose/skill into your base suit then equip/skill a sub system for that suit (Gallente assault sub system). I like sub systems. Also clears up any confusion between power core and power grid. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 10185	Posted - 2015.05.15 15:33:00 - [154] - Quote Gregor stormwalker wrote: also a better name than "powercores" would be "sub-system" so you choose/skill into your base suit then equip/skill a sub system for that suit (Gallente assault sub system). "Sub-system" is already used by the warbarge as a kind of module. Prototype Gallente Assault Sub-System Advanced Caldari Logistics Sub-System Militia Minmatar Light Sub-System Pretty easy to understand. It could work. I thought about "motherboard", but that denotes CPU more than PG. Naming things is hard. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8784	Posted - 2015.05.15 15:36:00 - [155] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: kiarbanor wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I'm going to flat out say no the APEX being advanced cores. There must be a better way. Yeah, I can't think of one. I know the standard BPO modules that can't be put on any other suit will not be enough. So, there has to be something else I'm not thinking. As of right now with this idea, the only difference between a standard BPO and an Apex BPO are the standard BPO modules/weapons. Let's say you use standard non-BPO modules/weapons on a standard BPO. How much would that cost? Like 20k ISK? That's not enough to justify the time or money spent on Apex's. The inherent problem here is APEX suits were designed without tiericide in mind, and by introducing tiericide is hard to fix APEX suits. This will be on my mind all day, I'd like to find a solution without scrapping them and giving refunds. True tiericide and the elimination of about 140 discrete suits from the arsenal means there's potential room for a few nonstandard setups and specialist suits that behave in a manner not identical to other dropsuits of the same type. LP dropsuits could potentially set the gold standard for that tier gap between standard dropsuits and officer fits. Doesn't necessarily mean they'd have a better power core (unless you buy one with LP) WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
vogon mugwump Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 73	Posted - 2015.05.15 15:37:00 - [156] - Quote Why not just core or reactor?
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. 514	Posted - 2015.05.15 16:54:00 - [157] - Quote Rip, you would bring in the color scheme. And I'm not sure a little more CPU/PG will be that much of an incentive to buy Apex over standard BPO. What if Apex suits get two advanced mods/weapon BPOs. For Assaults, you get both weapons moved to advanced. But they're BPOs. You can't move them to another suit, just like the standard mods/weapons are now. For Logis, you get an advanced weapon and one advanced piece of equipment. As for the core, you only get the militia/standard BPO. So, with the advanced weapons or equipment BPOs on the suit, it will make it tougher to fit more stuff. However, you still have a pretty big incentive to buy them--in my humble opinion--because you get a couple advanced BPO pieces. That's just one thought that came to my mind as I was eating lunch.
Jaran Vilktar Ultimate Spawn Smart Deploy 215	Posted - 2015.05.15 16:56:00 - [158] - Quote Best thing I've read in GD since forever. +3 Also, yes I managed to like your post 3 times. I can't believe I did it. 514 Logins
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1002	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:01:00 - [159] - Quote In all my years (!) of being a part of Dust and it's forums this has to be one of the best threads/ideas ever. Call them 'dropsuit cores' or 'dropsuit core modifiers' or whatever, but make this happen. Such a simple but disruptive idea that could transform the game. The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 7417	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:06:00 - [160] - Quote AeroGÇª BrilliantGÇª just bloody brilliant. Still wish your awesome FW idea had been implemented. MOAR Ladders SpadeGÇª Remember your Warbarge

castba Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 888	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:14:00 - [161] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: kiarbanor wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I'm going to flat out say no the APEX being advanced cores. There must be a better way. Yeah, I can't think of one. I know the standard BPO modules that can't be put on any other suit will not be enough. So, there has to be something else I'm not thinking. As of right now with this idea, the only difference between a standard BPO and an Apex BPO are the standard BPO modules/weapons. Let's say you use standard non-BPO modules/weapons on a standard BPO. How much would that cost? Like 20k ISK? That's not enough to justify the time or money spent on Apex's. The inherent problem here is APEX suits were designed without tiericide in mind, and by introducing tiericide is hard to fix APEX suits. This will be on my mind all day, I'd like to find a solution without scrapping them and giving refunds. The module and weapon loadout could still apply when selecting the Apex powercore, thus the advantage is still a shiney golden free fully kitted out suit. "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 702	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:22:00 - [162] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Taking an idea from Avallo Kantor and expanding it. Currently we have 120 unique base suits. 5 roles 4 races 3 tiers 3 variants aurum and ISK and LP Compounded together is 180. The SKIN system looks to eliminate redundant assets of BPO's, but let's take it a step further. Give all suits the slot layout of their prototype, then add a power core slot similar to the SKIN slot. The power core would add the tier appropriate CPU and PG. Suits would cost the same as standard, and then power cores will cost the equivalent difference in tier costs. There will also be aurum cores and LP cores unlocked early. Now you have 5 roles 4 races nothing else Compounded is 20 unique suits You just shaved off 160 suits from the memory cap. Even more if you do this to basic suits as well. Mind Blown. I am going to spreadsheet some stuff. Yes, Rat. Do this feature! Death is a serious businessGÇª So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2346	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:22:00 - [163] - Quote How about COREs? Command-operating recalcitrant-engines? Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. 514	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:27:00 - [164] - Quote castba wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: kiarbanor wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I'm going to flat out say no the APEX being advanced cores. There must be a better way. Yeah, I can't think of one. I know the standard BPO modules that can't be put on any other suit will not be enough. So, there has to be something else I'm not thinking. As of right now with this idea, the only difference between a standard BPO and an Apex BPO are the standard BPO modules/weapons. Let's say you use standard non-BPO modules/weapons on a standard BPO. How much would that cost? Like 20k ISK? That's not enough to justify the time or money spent on Apex's. The inherent problem here is APEX suits were designed without tiericide in mind, and by introducing tiericide is hard to fix APEX suits. This will be on my mind all day, I'd like to find a solution without scrapping them and giving refunds. The module and weapon loadout could still apply when selecting the Apex powercore, thus the advantage is still a shiney golden free fully kitted out suit. The problem, castba, is that people will not invest time in FW or money to buy an Apex suit that only gives you standard BPO modules. One of the main reasons people invested the time or money in Apex was because they have the slot configuration of a proto suit. With this new idea, a proto suit and a standard suit will have the same slot configuration. There needs to be a clearer distinguishing factor between Apex and standard BPO, other than standard pre-fitted weapons/mods. And Aero, I think you fix the Frontline issue by just biting the bullet and having those suits have a different slot configuration than their "real" counterparts. I still vote that we eliminate all basic suits. That will free up even more room.
Marcus Stormfire G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 97	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:56:00 - [165] - Quote Love it! +1 Raise of hands to whoever would love to sport a shiny neon green and Purple Quafe core. (Raises Hand) -Marcus -I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1207	Posted - 2015.05.15 18:10:00 - [166] - Quote Simply a great idea
Avallo Kantor 677	Posted - 2015.05.15 19:22:00 - [167] - Quote kiarbanor wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: kiarbanor wrote: Joel II X wrote: Awesome idea, but if I have a BPO suit and add a prototype core, wouldn't it be a cheaper BPO since it's a proto fit minus the cost of a STD suit? 3 ISK may seem like nothing, but it adds up eventually. Other than that, it really is a grand idea. +1 Maybe make it so that with any BPO suit you can't change out the core; it's automatically fitted with a militia or standard BPO core. But this makes me think of other BPOs. What about Apex suits? How do you justify buying (or already having purchased) an Apex when you can simply get a Quafe standard suit that will have the same slot layout and the same type of core? I won't spend all that AUR--or time in FW--just to get BPO modules that can't be used on any other suit. Also, what about Frontline suits? Will they essentially be a standard BPO with a standard or militia core? And won't that deter anyone from buying a handful of standard BPO suits? Just some thoughts that popped up in my head as I digested this great idea. I'm thinking perhaps all suits are cheap one time purchase BPOs and we delegate the regular cost to the power cores. For your BPOs you'd get a BPO power core in exchange. APEX power cores could perhaps fill in the slots with free gear as well that you could swap out. Good point with starter fits though. Yeah, my initial thought is that the only way this will work with BPOs is if you make them "better" than they were before, or else you're going to get a major outcry from the playerbase. The standard BPOs would be better with this core idea since you're gaining extra slots. The ones I would worry about are Apex. Even Frontline isn't a huge concern since there is no money or time exchanged for those. But if Apex isn't figured out correctly and properly thought through--knowing full well CCP will most likely never refund money--then there is a chance that people will get very, very upset. Would it be too much to give Apex an advanced BPO core on top of having the BPO modules that can't be used on other suits? Would that be too much? I mean, in essence, you're only adding the cost of a current advanced suit, which isn't that much ISK. It will be able to fit more proto/advanced modules and weapons, but--then again--the user is taking on the risk of losing ISK. I don't know, I would have to think it through some more. Recall, the initial idea with SKIN Modules is to divide all current BPOs with unique textures (which is all of them?) into a "regular BPO" and the "SKIN", so that you will eventually be able to sport that Quafe skin on any version of that suit. So alot of those BPOs are already going into the more important part, the SKIN, and now perhaps a 'std' Powercore BPO to go along with it, as Aero suggested. As for Frontline, they could always be their own dropsuit class, or perhaps be reevaluated in the process to perhaps become a 'militia' version of an existing medium frame. After all the intent with frontline suits is still to keep them as a 'baseline' level of competitiveness for play.
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3967	Posted - 2015.05.15 19:25:00 - [168] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Taking an idea from Avallo Kantor and expanding it. Currently we have 180 unique base suits. 5 roles 4 races 3 tiers 3 variants aurum and ISK and LP Compounded together is 180. The SKIN system looks to eliminate redundant assets of BPO's, but let's take it a step further. Give all suits the slot layout of their prototype, then add a power core slot similar to the SKIN slot. The power core would add the tier appropriate CPU and PG. Suits would cost the same as standard, and then power cores will cost the equivalent difference in tier costs. There will also be aurum cores and LP cores unlocked early. Now you have 5 roles 4 races nothing else Compounded is 20 unique suits You just shaved off 160 suits from the memory cap. Even more if you do this to basic suits as well. Holy moly, what a likefarm! Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 28/30 exclusively Minja
VAHZZ 2108	Posted - 2015.05.15 19:37:00 - [169] - Quote I just now noticed you are near 100 likes on OP. DAMN YOU AERO! cries in corner "I bring nothing; I bless nothing, I save nothing, I just; erase. Completely. Shatter."
RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 812	Posted - 2015.05.15 20:29:00 - [170] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Copypasting from other thread and expanding with a little extra stream of thought: Would it be possible to assign a suits role bonus to the powercore module? and allow it to enable/disable slots? So in theory you only have light, medium and heavy frames but the powercore applies the role bonus (via referencing a check on player skill level), pg/cpu values and flavors/enables weapon loadouts - assuming tiericide here. Commandos might need their own frame still but that drops the huge number of suits in the game down to 16 or so. It sounds like this set up might take some load off of the server as there'd no longer be a huge number of unique dropsuits just the same suits running different skins/powercores. All suits come with 'militia powercores' fitted that don't have role bonuses and provide the current stats of militia suits, then skilling into [flavor of dropsuit] both unlocks the powercore/doctrine (I like the sound of [racial assault] doctrine because datacores already exist in eve), this might allow us to prune it down to like 3 suits per race. If it can be set up so that powercores enable or disable specific slots (ie commando's 2 light weapons, logis -> more equipment & no sidearm) it might be possible to get it down to 12 dropsuits total. Powercores could be bought with LP, Aur or Isk. I get it. and from a spreadsheet point of view it could work. However we are also speaking that visually these suits are different. Thus it may only eliminate the 2 medium roles as they share the same frame. Good inspiration, but I feel that problems will arise the deeper we go into the subject matter. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower

RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 812	Posted - 2015.05.15 20:48:00 - [171] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: kiarbanor wrote: Joel II X wrote: Awesome idea, but if I have a BPO suit and add a prototype core, wouldn't it be a cheaper BPO since it's a proto fit minus the cost of a STD suit? 3 ISK may seem like nothing, but it adds up eventually. Other than that, it really is a grand idea. +1 Maybe make it so that with any BPO suit you can't change out the core; it's automatically fitted with a militia or standard BPO core. But this makes me think of other BPOs. What about Apex suits? How do you justify buying (or already having purchased) an Apex when you can simply get a Quafe standard suit that will have the same slot layout and the same type of core? I won't spend all that AUR--or time in FW--just to get BPO modules that can't be used on any other suit. Also, what about Frontline suits? Will they essentially be a standard BPO with a standard or militia core? And won't that deter anyone from buying a handful of standard BPO suits? Just some thoughts that popped up in my head as I digested this great idea. I'm thinking perhaps all suits are cheap one time purchase BPOs and we delegate the regular cost to the power cores. For your BPOs you'd get a BPO power core in exchange. APEX power cores could perhaps fill in the slots with free gear as well that you could swap out. Good point with starter fits though. Better. It has taken me a while to come around to the idea but yes. BPO suits = skin, suit, STD power core forever APEX suits = skin, suit, 'X' power core, and preloaded equipment forever Redbleach... just a skin suit. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1197	Posted - 2015.05.15 22:15:00 - [172] - Quote Suggestions on the topic of APEX suits and how "roles" should be addressed: Each "role" should have it's own CORE. Example: Adv. Caldari Logi CORE Proto Minmatar Heavy Frame CORE Basic Gallente Sentinel CORE Adv. Amarr Commando CORE APEX suits will be transformed into COREs (as well as SKINs) and upoon equipping them to the proper suit, they will automatically fill the module slots with their predefined configuration. It remains to be decided if they should be editable after that or not, but certainly possible. Also wish to remind everyone that currently, editable APEX suits are THE BASIC suits of Tiercide, all slots unlocked but only basic levels PG / CPU. They are the living breathing examples of Tiercide for Dust514. Know what cannot be known.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6402	Posted - 2015.05.15 22:18:00 - [173] - Quote All this suit/module/whatever bpo needs to die in a fire...if there is no cost then there is no reason for me to play this over the next CoD (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3136	Posted - 2015.05.15 22:26:00 - [174] - Quote I currently like how apex functions right now and unlocking it has provided a great argument from tiericide - even if every other suit was changed to apex slots, they are a bpo dropsuit that comes with a huge amount of free modules and can be run ENTIRELY free or you can change a few things up and it becomes 5-15k per suit or so and a lot 'better'. A few small customizations and they become a desireable and cheap suit for all game modes. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Avallo Kantor 685	Posted - 2015.05.15 22:38:00 - [175] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: All this suit/module/whatever bpo needs to die in a fire...if there is no cost then there is no reason for me to play this over the next CoD I think you misunderstand the point of this argument, the powercore idea is such that the powercores cost an ammount of ISK / AUR / LP equal to what is currently available for said suit, and then having the actual dropsuit itself become a BPO. Without said powercore it is, in effect, a militia level suit. (which many players already have a BPO in some form via newplayer suits) In this way the economy in no way changes, but the number of dropsuits (which impact performance / memory for the game) is reduced by a drastic amount. This in turn allows more room to be freed up for performance / other things. The end effect in game wise is that you still pay the same amount for Suit X, but instead of buying the suit, you buy the powercore for said suit. This also allows a good degree more ease in 'upgrading' fittings, as you don't have to create a whole new suit when you are ready to move up a tier, just copy the current suit, replace the powercore, and you are good to go. Trust me when I say I in no way want this idea to take away the economy that makes this game so unique, and in my opinion, fun. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Hawkings Greenback Dead Man's Game 357	Posted - 2015.05.15 22:47:00 - [176] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: All this suit/module/whatever bpo needs to die in a fire...if there is no cost then there is no reason for me to play this over the next CoD The "core" and modules would still cost ISK. If needed the cost of both could be increased to compensate for the lost cost of the suit. Easy. But every night I burn. Screaming the animal scream. Every night I burn. Dreaming the crow-black dream.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6402	Posted - 2015.05.15 22:49:00 - [177] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: All this suit/module/whatever bpo needs to die in a fire...if there is no cost then there is no reason for me to play this over the next CoD The "core" and modules would still cost ISK. If needed the cost of both could be increased to compensate for the lost cost of the suit. Easy. The dropsuit also needs to cost isk. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Avallo Kantor 685	Posted - 2015.05.15 23:05:00 - [178] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: All this suit/module/whatever bpo needs to die in a fire...if there is no cost then there is no reason for me to play this over the next CoD The "core" and modules would still cost ISK. If needed the cost of both could be increased to compensate for the lost cost of the suit. Easy. The dropsuit also needs to cost isk. It could well cost ISK, but a BPO would probably be a better solution. Again, the core will cost the SAME AMOUNT as what the same level dropsuit currently costs. There is NO difference in the cost of a dropsuit. With this model the economy of losing suits in NO WAY changes. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5176	Posted - 2015.05.15 23:32:00 - [179] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Could we make the suits 1-time purchase BPOs so you only need to restock power cores? This is something I was thinking of as well. Make the suits BPOs and shift their cost to the power core. This power core idea has me grinning ear to ear though. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Hawkings Greenback Dead Man's Game 357	Posted - 2015.05.15 23:56:00 - [180] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: All this suit/module/whatever bpo needs to die in a fire...if there is no cost then there is no reason for me to play this over the next CoD The "core" and modules would still cost ISK. If needed the cost of both could be increased to compensate for the lost cost of the suit. Easy. The dropsuit also needs to cost isk. Why if the cost of the suit is shifted to the core ? But every night I burn. Screaming the animal scream. Every night I burn. Dreaming the crow-black dream.



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