DUST Search - Eliminating Redundant Assets: Power Core Slot

xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Aero Yassavi wrote:

NextDark Knight wrote:

Question being does this help inventory system or the actual game engine while playing?

Because aren't we just going to reuse all the same models we already have in the game. Most of them are just reskins right?

Problem is for whatever silly reason Old CCP designed this game such that say an Assault C-1, Neo Assault C-1, and Assault C/1-Series all are viewed by the game as a unique object despite having the exact same character model. So yes, reducing the number of suits and replacing them by mods will definitely help.

That irks the hell out of me because it only shows how little thought CCP gave to the system when they first launched the game. But I'm gonna stop complaining about that as that won't change the past. But at the very least I look forward to seeing what CCP Rattati comes up with since now we know he's doing some spreadsheet stuff related to the OP.

I honestly don't have much concern over the APEX and Officer suits as well since those are just very few suits compared to the number of redundant suits your proposal eliminates.

yup just better to start fixing it now.

IWS, since you're here and since it has been told me to talk to a CPM, would you please have a read at my proposal a few pages back and tell me/ask if it is doable? and, pretty please, if it isn't would you ask why (simple curiosity, since I'm studying Game Design)?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Pwnycorn 3192	Posted - 2015.05.18 00:42:00 - [331] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Interesting thought, power cores should be able to affect other stats as well besides just fitting space. Also the role skill would apply to the core not the suit (or at least should). This would open the door to class variation (Type 1 Type 2) as well as perhaps sub classes or such (Pirate power cores with the correctly themed pirate skill bonuses for instance). One step at a time. I know all the cliches, but I wasn't to dream. As long as the developers are focused. Emphasis on just "Focused" instead "Laser Focused". ha! I Knew it! btw, I didn't know Pretorian resigned from CCP Last year...he was the "Laser Focused" man, for those who didn't know. Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10153	Posted - 2015.05.18 02:15:00 - [332] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Interesting thought, power cores should be able to affect other stats as well besides just fitting space. Also the role skill would apply to the core not the suit (or at least should). This would open the door to class variation (Type 1 Type 2) as well as perhaps sub classes or such (Pirate power cores with the correctly themed pirate skill bonuses for instance). One step at a time. I know all the cliches, but I wasn't to dream. As long as the developers are focused. Emphasis on just "Focused" instead "Laser Focused". ha! I Knew it! btw, I didn't know Pretorian resigned from CCP Last year...he was the "Laser Focused" man, for those who didn't know. poor guy probably was in the dark like all of us. Sadly CCP execs couldn't man up and correct him even though it appears at that point the initial Legion idea was set. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Viktor Skirov Algintal Core Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2015.05.18 02:26:00 - [333] - Quote Both Mister Yassavi and Mister Kantor, do you mind if i take this topic to the Spanish forums? Kinda to open up discussion and check what kind of ideas are born in there. I'll post them here If, i get anything and don't get laughed at in the process, With your permission of course.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10155	Posted - 2015.05.18 02:30:00 - [334] - Quote Viktor Skirov wrote: Both Mister Yassavi and Mister Kantor, do you mind if i take this topic to the Spanish forums? Kinda to open up discussion and check what kind of ideas are born in there. I'll post them here If, i get anything and don't get laughed at in the process, With your permission of course. Please and translate any interesting feedback here! Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Viktor Skirov Algintal Core Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2015.05.18 02:37:00 - [335] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Viktor Skirov wrote: Both Mister Yassavi and Mister Kantor, do you mind if i take this topic to the Spanish forums? Kinda to open up discussion and check what kind of ideas are born in there. I'll post them here If, i get anything and don't get laughed at in the process, With your permission of course. Please and translate any interesting feedback here! Understood. Also, if you wish to answer to one of those ideas, do tell me and i'll translate your answer and send it to the idea's owner. P.S: Our concept of interesting may be different, so my sincere apologies if i bring something that i thought was interesting but that you would not like.
Avallo Kantor 764	Posted - 2015.05.18 03:15:00 - [336] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Viktor Skirov wrote: Both Mister Yassavi and Mister Kantor, do you mind if i take this topic to the Spanish forums? Kinda to open up discussion and check what kind of ideas are born in there. I'll post them here If, i get anything and don't get laughed at in the process, With your permission of course. Please and translate any interesting feedback here! Agreed! Sharing between multiple languages is a great idea. If you can perhaps share some of the other enhancements found in this thread as well, since many of those are worth Sharing as well. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Viktor Skirov Algintal Core Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2015.05.18 03:19:00 - [337] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Viktor Skirov wrote: Both Mister Yassavi and Mister Kantor, do you mind if i take this topic to the Spanish forums? Kinda to open up discussion and check what kind of ideas are born in there. I'll post them here If, i get anything and don't get laughed at in the process, With your permission of course. Please and translate any interesting feedback here! Agreed! Sharing between multiple languages is a great idea. If you can perhaps share some of the other enhancements found in this thread as well, since many of those are worth Sharing as well. I'll read again all of the pages tomorrow to gather all the info I can and then update the Spanish post tomorrow. Would do it at this moment, but it's 22:48 right now. Good night.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19570	Posted - 2015.05.18 05:02:00 - [338] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Question being does this help inventory system or the actual game engine while playing? Because aren't we just going to reuse all the same models we already have in the game. Most of them are just reskins right? Problem is for whatever silly reason Old CCP designed this game such that say an Assault C-1, Neo Assault C-1, and Assault C/1-Series all are viewed by the game as a unique object despite having the exact same character model. So yes, reducing the number of suits and replacing them by mods will definitely help. That irks the hell out of me because it only shows how little thought CCP gave to the system when they first launched the game. But I'm gonna stop complaining about that as that won't change the past. But at the very least I look forward to seeing what CCP Rattati comes up with since now we know he's doing some spreadsheet stuff related to the OP. I honestly don't have much concern over the APEX and Officer suits as well since those are just very few suits compared to the number of redundant suits your proposal eliminates. yup just better to start fixing it now. IWS, since you're here and since it has been told me to talk to a CPM, would you please have a read at my proposal a few pages back and tell me/ask if it is doable? and, pretty please, if it isn't would you ask why (simple curiosity, since I'm studying Game Design)? Subsystems are a tricky thing and they do add confusion that we likely don't need for an early player; while I do like the idea of a highly customization suit I rather it be a true and proper 'tech 3' that is found near end game playing when players are expected to have closer to true understanding of modules; stats weight; and slot weights being thrown against PG and CPU costs. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10160	Posted - 2015.05.18 06:01:00 - [339] - Quote Oooh so we're sticked now, interesting Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2380	Posted - 2015.05.18 07:17:00 - [340] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Interesting thought, power cores should be able to affect other stats as well besides just fitting space. Also the role skill would apply to the core not the suit (or at least should). This would open the door to class variation (Type 1 Type 2) as well as perhaps sub classes or such (Pirate power cores with the correctly themed pirate skill bonuses for instance). One step at a time. I know all the cliches, but I wasn't to dream. As long as the developers are focused. Emphasis on just "Focused" instead "Laser Focused". Core Focus Crusade

IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2380	Posted - 2015.05.18 07:19:00 - [341] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Question being does this help inventory system or the actual game engine while playing? Because aren't we just going to reuse all the same models we already have in the game. Most of them are just reskins right? Problem is for whatever silly reason Old CCP designed this game such that say an Assault C-1, Neo Assault C-1, and Assault C/1-Series all are viewed by the game as a unique object despite having the exact same character model. So yes, reducing the number of suits and replacing them by mods will definitely help. That irks the hell out of me because it only shows how little thought CCP gave to the system when they first launched the game. But I'm gonna stop complaining about that as that won't change the past. But at the very least I look forward to seeing what CCP Rattati comes up with since now we know he's doing some spreadsheet stuff related to the OP. I honestly don't have much concern over the APEX and Officer suits as well since those are just very few suits compared to the number of redundant suits your proposal eliminates. Yeah it's better than now, and it requires all those unique suits to be in the same 32-player battle at one time to cause a detrimental effect. [edit] So PC / raids perhaps...
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3996	Posted - 2015.05.18 11:27:00 - [342] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Taking an idea from Avallo Kantor and expanding it. Currently we have 180 unique base suits. 5 roles 4 races 3 tiers 3 variants aurum and ISK and LP Compounded together is 180. The SKIN system looks to eliminate redundant assets of BPO's, but let's take it a step further. Give all suits the slot layout of their prototype, then add a power core slot similar to the SKIN slot. The power core would add the tier appropriate CPU and PG. Suits would cost the same as standard, and then power cores will cost the equivalent difference in tier costs. There will also be aurum cores and LP cores unlocked early. Now you have 5 roles 4 races nothing else Compounded is 20 unique suits You just shaved off 160 suits from the memory cap. Even more if you do this to basic suits as well. When CCP Z suggests something similar, everyone tells him to go to hell. But when you suggest it, apparently you're the messiah. Lol. I guess people who are desperate for performance gains will do pretty much anything. To be fair: 1. People might not have been angry at the idea that Z had; they might have just been royally pissed at the Rouge Wedding. I still contend that people were mad with how it was released and told rather than the actual fact that they were looking to transition. Z's entire thing even came down to "this is all for Legion", which further pisses people off. 2. Z's idea was a hell of a lot more involved than "keep your suits; the modules are what are important." With each thing being tied to a separate dropsuit role, you were going to have to go down a certain line of dropsuit just to get a certain module. Being a 100% Assault suit guy and having to make a detour into Scout or Logistics for a Nova Knife or Mass Driver sucks. People could have easily been more angry at that idea than "you mean to tell me that the prices will be tied to modules rather than suits?" 3. A lot has changed. People calm down, see it a different way. A bad idea in June might not be such a bad idea in December and in another year it might even be a great idea. 4. This idea is delivered in a way that people can easily understand. Z's idea, which is still a lot more than just this, was delivered in a bungled kind of way. That confusion and shock of something so different. Honestly, I support this idea even if there isn't a single bit of jump in performance. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 3472	Posted - 2015.05.18 13:17:00 - [343] - Quote I think that the coolest part of this is that we're going to convince four mutually aggressive races to adopt this method of weapons development simultaneously and in perfect parallel. .emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
Haerr The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2	Posted - 2015.05.18 14:05:00 - [344] - Quote Weapon optics. Once weapon cores and skins come along let us either have 2 base versions of each weapon, one with optics and the other with iron sights, or give optics its own slot. Edit: Perhaps you could even let us fit weapons like we fit suits. And then let us put a 'weapon fit' into the weapon slots of our dropsuit fits.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 890	Posted - 2015.05.18 14:19:00 - [345] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Fair enough. But then how do you explain current BPOs and how all our inventory travels with us so rapidly across the cluster? I like to imagine when we deploy to battle we transfer our consciences to a clone already at the destination planet, and rather than buying physical items from the market we are buying licenses of use that get cashed in as we take the item from the stockpile at each battle site. BPOs are then an infinite license of use. May not be official canon but it's the only way that makes sense to me. Either way the end result is the same so I don't care THAT much. Game design and usability trumps Lore any day of the week in my book. If the power core module idea gets implemented as is (with no other changes apart from Tiericide) I am all for turning the suites to BPOs, as I would hate having to restock two different things to get one functional entity. The problem is you can't "unturn" them later, if and when a solution to the restock problem is found. Technically there will be no difference if the suites are BPOs or cost ISK. Both will be an item in the database and won't give any performace Impact either way. So, if the only purpose of turning all suites to BPOs is to solve the restock problem, why don't we try and find a solution to that instead? Personally I never liked the "draw directly from inventory" Loadout building and the problems it gives. It's as big resource hog as multiple suites (I say without any proof or reliable sources ). I really hate when suites which share modules goes invalid mid battle because I died in another suite. TDLR: Given today's system I am all for switching to BPOs, but I think we can gain further improvments by separating the Loadouts from our inventory. If the "restock" problem disappear, it hardly matters if the suites are BPO or not?
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.18 14:31:00 - [346] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Oooh so we're sticked now, interesting Sticky means greenlight. The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Avallo Kantor 768	Posted - 2015.05.18 15:06:00 - [347] - Quote sabre prime wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Oooh so we're sticked now, interesting Sticky means greenlight. Not guaranteed, but it's a -very- good sign. I'm excited. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 686	Posted - 2015.05.18 15:15:00 - [348] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: I think that the coolest part of this is that we're going to convince four mutually aggressive races to adopt this method of weapons development simultaneously and in perfect parallel. To be fair, we are immortal mercenaries with questionable loyalties. Maybe some Dustbunnies came together and decided to make those pesky dropsuits more flexible and easier to transport, by stripping out the internal systems and forcing the manufacturers to stop selling crappy proprietary fully kitted suits. This system should lower prices quite a bit, by enabling competition on the market and making transport of suits cheaper and allowing suit sellers to be more focused, as they don't need specialist frames anymore. I'd like the final name of the system to actually imply some backstory like this.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.18 15:25:00 - [349] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: I think that the coolest part of this is that we're going to convince four mutually aggressive races to adopt this method of weapons development simultaneously and in perfect parallel. Not too outlandish when you consider the implant tech we all use now was gifted to all the factions by Empress Jamyl Sarum because the current route everyone else was on with reverse engineering led to many going "514" and the Amarr found it better to share their improved tech with everyone over that. Amarr shared once, Amarr can share again. P.S. Avallo and I are both Amarr supporters so the lore really should tie to the Amarr rather than pirates. Heck, why not do the literal sense and say Avallo and myself created this, we are characters in the lore after all. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Viktor Skirov Algintal Core Gallente Federation 64	Posted - 2015.05.18 15:29:00 - [350] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: I think that the coolest part of this is that we're going to convince four mutually aggressive races to adopt this method of weapons development simultaneously and in perfect parallel. Not too outlandish when you consider the implant tech we all use now was gifted to all the factions by Empress Jamyl Sarum because the current route everyone else was on with reverse engineering led to many going "514" and the Amarr found it better to share their improved tech with everyone over that. Amarr shared once, Amarr can share again. P.S. Avallo and I are both Amarr supporters so the lore really should tie to the Amarr rather than pirates. Heck, why not do the literal sense and say Avallo and myself created this, we are characters in the lore after all. Sincerely, i agree. After all you two are the ones who came and built the idea, I would give credit to you. Officially a ghost.... Spoooooooooky

Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5	Posted - 2015.05.18 15:43:00 - [351] - Quote For me I'm thinking about the suits being BPO in terms of the fitting design and UI. If the suits are BPOs it would be very easy to just replace the "module" at the top (where the suit currently is) in the fitting screen and have that be where you slot in your power core. All of the currently owned suits would just become a bpo of the suit type and the number of power cores you had stocked. Heck there is already an art asset for a power core module in Eve as well from the Micro Auxiliary Power Core: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/eve/images/d/d6/Icon35_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20081129173428 Can't tell you how awesome it would be to finally be able to switch between a LP suit and ISK "suit" on the fly just by changing out the power core. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Avallo Kantor 772	Posted - 2015.05.18 15:48:00 - [352] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: For me I'm thinking about the suits being BPO in terms of the fitting design and UI. If the suits are BPOs it would be very easy to just replace the "module" at the top (where the suit currently is) in the fitting screen and have that be where you slot in your power core. All of the currently owned suits would just become a bpo of the suit type and the number of power cores you had stocked. Heck there is already an art asset for a power core module in Eve as well from the Micro Auxiliary Power Core: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/eve/images/d/d6/Icon35_14.png/revision/latest?cb=20081129173428 Can't tell you how awesome it would be to finally be able to switch between a LP suit and ISK "suit" on the fly just by changing out the power core. Yes! This was our exact line of reasoning for liking the BPO idea so much. Also gives a smoother NPE progression when you can use one suit from day one to day "proto", just swapping out cores and modules as you skill into them. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Avallo Kantor 772	Posted - 2015.05.18 15:49:00 - [353] - Quote Also since I double posted I'll add that I completely agree with Aeros comment about us building them. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.18 16:22:00 - [354] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Also since I double posted I'll add that I completely agree with Aeros comment about us building them. Building them in our offshoot non military corporation AA Solutions Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Viktor Skirov Algintal Core Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2015.05.18 16:25:00 - [355] - Quote Mister Kantor and Mister Yassavi. Before updating the Spanish post with the improvements made to the discussion.. I am ashamed to ask some questions that are answered between page one to 18, but that i really have little time to check and resume as i'm a little occupied here. (I actually escaped for a second to write this). So here are the questions: In the case of the APEX: How are they gonna be implemented?, will the APEX core fill the empty slots of said suits and apply a STD+ PG/CPU to the suit?, Of course, this PwrC will be a BPO, i have that acknowledged. In the case of suits: Will they also be a one time buy BPO and then the cost of the Core will compensate the missing cost of the suit, right? Last question, How are newbros going to have their militia BPO?, i mean, the new player racial suit given to the person when his/her Dust career begins. Will they have a reduced amount of modules on top of a, presumably, changeable PwrC? I can't think of any other question, but if you'd like to add a little thing, I'll really thank you. My apologies for having to ask. Officially a ghost.... Spoooooooooky
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.18 17:06:00 - [356] - Quote My problem with the auxiliary power core symbol from EVE is it had the power grid symbol as part of it which is furthering the reason I don't actually want this to be called a power core. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 687	Posted - 2015.05.18 17:13:00 - [357] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: My problem with the auxiliary power core symbol from EVE is it had the power grid symbol as part of it which is furthering the reason I don't actually want this to be called a power core. Also, it would provide computational capacity and not just power. Is there maybe an object in EVE lore that can both produce power an do calculations at the same time?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.18 17:58:00 - [358] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: To be fair: 1. People might not have been angry at the idea that Z had; they might have just been royally pissed at the Rouge Wedding. I still contend that people were mad with how it was released and told rather than the actual fact that they were looking to transition. Z's entire thing even came down to "this is all for Legion", which further pisses people off. 2. Z's idea was a hell of a lot more involved than "keep your suits; the modules are what are important." With each thing being tied to a separate dropsuit role, you were going to have to go down a certain line of dropsuit just to get a certain module. Being a 100% Assault suit guy and having to make a detour into Scout or Logistics for a Nova Knife or Mass Driver sucks. People could have easily been more angry at that idea than "you mean to tell me that the prices will be tied to modules rather than suits?" 3. A lot has changed. People calm down, see it a different way. A bad idea in June might not be such a bad idea in December and in another year it might even be a great idea. 4. This idea is delivered in a way that people can easily understand. Z's idea, which is still a lot more than just this, was delivered in a bungled kind of way. That confusion and shock of something so different. Honestly, I support this idea even if there isn't a single bit of jump in performance. I will admit that CCP Z's idea had some substance, but there were several things going against his idea. CCP Z's presentation was lacking in clarity. A lot of the information we got about his idea for Legion had to be fished out of him. And at the time came across as somewhat rigid with his ideas even though many of us gave him recommendations to improve upon his ideas. The last words I read from him were "I'm looking into it" or something to that effect. We have not heard from him since. In fact, I'm starting to doubt if he even still works for CCP at this point as the Monetization & Progression Director. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.18 18:05:00 - [359] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: My problem with the auxiliary power core symbol from EVE is it had the power grid symbol as part of it which is furthering the reason I don't actually want this to be called a power core. Also, it would provide computational capacity and not just power. Is there maybe an object in EVE lore that can both produce power an do calculations at the same time? I would probably call it a CORE module for simplicity sake since it will be the main thing that could provide many things for the suit. Not just the tiers in PG/CPU but maybe even dropsuit bonuses. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.18 18:54:00 - [360] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: I think that the coolest part of this is that we're going to convince four mutually aggressive races to adopt this method of weapons development simultaneously and in perfect parallel. Not too outlandish when you consider the implant tech we all use now was gifted to all the factions by Empress Jamyl Sarum because the current route everyone else was on with reverse engineering led to many going "514" and the Amarr found it better to share their improved tech with everyone over that. Amarr shared once, Amarr can share again. P.S. Avallo and I are both Amarr supporters so the lore really should tie to the Amarr rather than pirates. Heck, why not do the literal sense and say Avallo and myself created this, we are characters in the lore after all. Its was actually stolen by a pirate faction... (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!



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