DUST Search - Eliminating Redundant Assets: Power Core Slot

IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:

Anyone any views on tiericide marginalising suits with lesser slot progression?

eg. currently, scouts get one slot per tier, max. six. Assaults get two per tier, max. eight. Assaults will have an extra two slots for PG/CPU mods, scouts the one. Power creep is higher.

It's likely that the Cores will be categorized by both race and role.

Yeah that's my thinking too, but it doesn't address my question, which I don't think I explained very well.

Scouts will get six slots. Assaults will get eight. Assaults get more room for PG/CPU mods, allowing their power to creep more than scouts.

G Clone wrote:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pHiL03gy5uNwjFAUQEljbFOn1bKJB96rT098BgoPpbo/edit?usp=sharing

Looks like current escalation in CPU/PG differs between suit-sizes.

Wow that's a surprise. STD assault has less PG/CPU than a STD scout (at least the Minmatar race that I looked at). But it doesn't continue in that fashion. ADV assault has more PG/CPU than ADV scout. Makes sense as they have more slots to fit...

Anyway as Maken said, I think there will be cores per race / class, so the additional core bases not in your sheet will allow those multipliers to be even. If I understood that correctly.

Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:59:00 - [391] - Quote I don't think Power Cores should affect bandwidth since it'd be flatly applied to all suits, giving some roles and races more or less bandwidth than they would have normally. Being able to drop Up-Links and Nano-Hives as a Logi and then switching over to a Sentinel to cover an area completely by yourself seems a bit much. And it seems like it'd be a pain to code it to react to specific races, roles, and suit sizes. Instead, could we possibly have separate Cores, simply calling it a Role Core for now, that would affect bandwidth and apply the role? That way we could cut down both on suit numbers and on numbers of cores, having the tiers of Power Core (Militia, Standard, Advanced, etc.) and simple Role Cores (Assault Core, Logistics Core, Sentinel Core, etc.) that would receive bonuses based on the tier of the Power Core, and the current suit bonuses (MinLogi's increased range and HPRep) could be flagged by the Role Core. It seems a lot easier to have a Role Core that could apply role bonuses, bandwidth, and react to Power Core tier than to have the Power Core try to do all those things intelligently.
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 07:25:00 - [392] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - 10000000 This is great, but what about the skill points? Would we be respecked, and how about adding this to vehicles too. Why would there be a SP refund? In order to get proto CPU and PG you would still need a PRO core unlocked at level 5. ++++++++++++++ Something I haven't seen mentioned. What happens to bandwidth? Does it get flattened like the suit slots in the scenario or is that something that can be attached to the power core as well? Excellent question. I'm not sure which would be better. Perhaps you could keep the B/W stat on the suits but make them a modifier of PG and / or CPU to achieve the current numbers? Much the same as the cores dictating how much you can fit, they would also dictate how much B/W your suit has....but the attributes can stay on the suit. Or maybe as Aero said it's no biggie to put the B/W attribute on the cores themselves...though we should probably be careful about dumping more and more attributes onto the cores as problems are found.
Avallo Kantor 792	Posted - 2015.05.21 14:51:00 - [393] - Quote Update: Rattati is working on the powercore / tiericide Google doc. So it seems he has plans to implement it. proceedes to run around screaming in excitement. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
castba Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 901	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:01:00 - [394] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Update: Rattati is working on the powercore / tiericide Google doc. So it seems he has plans to implement it. proceedes to run around screaming in excitement. Maybe this change will free up enough memory to implement the racial vehicle models (and/or other stuff that is not currently possible) in future. "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 17:55:00 - [395] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Update: Rattati is working on the powercore / tiericide Google doc. So it seems he has plans to implement it. proceedes to run around screaming in excitement. Just had a vision of this
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.21 19:03:00 - [396] - Quote Super excited! Still hoping for officer power cores for Avallo and myself Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition No Context 270	Posted - 2015.05.21 19:53:00 - [397] - Quote So, would we need 180 or how many suits there are powercores to make all of the suit layouts we have currently? It will be over soon, and when the Dust settles, no one will be left playing.
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6	Posted - 2015.05.21 20:37:00 - [398] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - 10000000 This is great, but what about the skill points? Would we be respecked, and how about adding this to vehicles too. Why would there be a SP refund? In order to get proto CPU and PG you would still need a PRO core unlocked at level 5. ++++++++++++++ Something I haven't seen mentioned. What happens to bandwidth? Does it get flattened like the suit slots in the scenario or is that something that can be attached to the power core as well? I think we would need a dedicated logi's opinion on this. However, we would also need a relatively new logi, who made it to proto under the bandwidth system. I don't see an issue with flattening bandwidth, but I rarely logi, and when I do, it isn't equipment based. Some details can be ignored
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 594	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:34:00 - [399] - Quote Good idea! Don't know if it'll ever be a real thing, but at least you had a great likefarm thread^^ Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.21 23:53:00 - [400] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Good idea! Don't know if it'll ever be a real thing, but at least you had a great likefarm thread^^ Certainly sounds like it's going to be a real thing Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control

SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 163	Posted - 2015.05.22 00:34:00 - [401] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Taking an idea from Avallo Kantor and expanding it. Currently we have 180 unique base suits. 5 roles 4 races 3 tiers 3 variants aurum and ISK and LP Compounded together is 180. The SKIN system looks to eliminate redundant assets of BPO's, but let's take it a step further. Give all suits the slot layout of their prototype, then add a power core slot similar to the SKIN slot. The power core would add the tier appropriate CPU and PG. Suits would cost the same as standard, and then power cores will cost the equivalent difference in tier costs. There will also be aurum cores and LP cores unlocked early. Now you have 5 roles 4 races nothing else Compounded is 20 unique suits You just shaved off 160 suits from the memory cap. Even more if you do this to basic suits as well. You forgot frame suits. There would still be 32 suits. My 6th respec put me into the same things as my 2nd respec, only this time I have 12 million more SP =P
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.22 02:35:00 - [402] - Quote SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Taking an idea from Avallo Kantor and expanding it. Currently we have 180 unique base suits. 5 roles 4 races 3 tiers 3 variants aurum and ISK and LP Compounded together is 180. The SKIN system looks to eliminate redundant assets of BPO's, but let's take it a step further. Give all suits the slot layout of their prototype, then add a power core slot similar to the SKIN slot. The power core would add the tier appropriate CPU and PG. Suits would cost the same as standard, and then power cores will cost the equivalent difference in tier costs. There will also be aurum cores and LP cores unlocked early. Now you have 5 roles 4 races nothing else Compounded is 20 unique suits You just shaved off 160 suits from the memory cap. Even more if you do this to basic suits as well. You forgot frame suits. There would still be 32 suits. Even then, 32 suits is a hell lot smaller than 180. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
JIMvc2 Consolidated Dust 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 06:15:00 - [403] - Quote I agree. I bet all the vehicles would benefit this too. Instead of them releasing the Logi vehicles why not the Logi skins and bam you may even saved more. Instead of Amarr and Minmatar reskinned tanks again why not release the skin of it and not the model. By giving skins to everything = you'll eliminate many things = more room to add more content. Weapons as well can benefit from this. Look at how many assault rifles, CR, RR, PC, FG, HMG, ect... and with skins = boom shaving off the useless models focusing on ONE model = if you want proto or whatever. Simple just apply the skin and that Skin will have all the stats. :) (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Die YOU SHADOW BEING IN THE DARK!!!
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.22 08:11:00 - [404] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN wrote: You forgot frame suits. There would still be 32 suits. Even then, 32 suits is a hell lot smaller than 180. Right, and how many frame suits do you see at a time in battle anyway? I've seen the odd one or two. Let's not forget the important savings here are related to battles, and only manifest themselves in battle. So you can only ever save a maximum of 31 memory allocations, assuming 32-player battles. You're not gonna run all 180 variants in the same match - different battles would see different levels of performance increase depending on the suits (cores) being used. I would tentatively say that a battle between all variants of all suit roles (say 32 suits) would see far less performance increase than say, a battle between all Amarr Logis (which would give the aforementioned maximum memory reduction). In fact this is even testable now with 32 guinea-pigs, the right skills, and the purest q-syncs ever seen ;-)
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 11:13:00 - [405] - Quote Eliminated for stupidity on my part Plasma Cannon Advocate
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2015.05.22 13:46:00 - [406] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN wrote: You forgot frame suits. There would still be 32 suits. Even then, 32 suits is a hell lot smaller than 180. Right, and how many frame suits do you see at a time in battle anyway? I've seen the odd one or two. Let's not forget the important savings here are related to battles, and only manifest themselves in battle. So you can only ever save a maximum of 31 memory allocations, assuming 32-player battles. You're not gonna run all 180 variants in the same match - different battles would see different levels of performance increase depending on the suits (cores) being used. I would tentatively say that a battle between all variants of all suit roles (say 32 suits) would see far less performance increase than say, a battle between all Amarr Logis (which would give the aforementioned maximum memory reduction). In fact this is even testable now with 32 guinea-pigs, the right skills, and the purest q-syncs ever seen ;-) Correct if im wrong, which i quite possibly am, but hasnt Ratatti stated that the battles load ALLLLLL art assests into the actual battle, because ya know, random change each asset will be used at some point? Not just the ones actually deployed. Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.22 17:52:00 - [407] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Correct if im wrong, which i quite possibly am, but hasnt Ratatti stated that the battles load ALLLLLL art assests into the actual battle, because ya know, random change each asset will be used at some point? Not just the ones actually deployed. If that is the case, then all the more reason to implement the CORE idea. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.22 19:58:00 - [408] - Quote Just so that everyone here can know, I have scheduled a new lecture this Saturday 23 May @ 1500 EST / 1900 GMT at the Lecture.D-UNI chat channel. The purpose of this lecture is to help bring this discussion to the game. Apparently there are a still a lot of players in Dust who don't know about this discussion and have often times made their disagreements known about this idea of the Core either because they are confused about it or because there are certain questions left unanswered. They don't visit the forums for whatever reason such as lack of access to a computer, not wanting to bother reading a 21-page threadnought, or because they just don't ever visit the forums at all. Therefore if anyone here likes to join in and help me explain things better to those people, that would be great. Aero, Avallo, and Rattati, if any of you can attend at that time, I will be happy. Just let me know. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.22 20:04:00 - [409] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Correct if im wrong, which i quite possibly am, but hasnt Ratatti stated that the battles load ALLLLLL art assests into the actual battle, because ya know, random change each asset will be used at some point? Not just the ones actually deployed. If that is the case, then all the more reason to implement the CORE idea. @Soldner I hadn't heard that but that doesn't mean you're wrong. As Maken said, in that case...
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.22 20:29:00 - [410] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Just so that everyone here can know, I have scheduled a new lecture this Saturday 23 May @ 1500 EST / 1900 GMT at the Lecture.D-UNI chat channel. The purpose of this lecture is to help bring this discussion to the game. Apparently there are a still a lot of players in Dust who don't know about this discussion and have often times made their disagreements known about this idea of the Core either because they are confused about it or because there are certain questions left unanswered. They don't visit the forums for whatever reason such as lack of access to a computer, not wanting to bother reading a 21-page threadnought, or because they just don't ever visit the forums at all. Therefore if anyone here likes to join in and help me explain things better to those people, that would be great. Aero, Avallo, and Rattati, if any of you can attend at that time, I will be happy. Just let me know. I'm available to record it if you think it useful..let me know.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.22 20:32:00 - [411] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Just so that everyone here can know, I have scheduled a new lecture this Saturday 23 May @ 1500 EST / 1900 GMT at the Lecture.D-UNI chat channel. The purpose of this lecture is to help bring this discussion to the game. Apparently there are a still a lot of players in Dust who don't know about this discussion and have often times made their disagreements known about this idea of the Core either because they are confused about it or because there are certain questions left unanswered. They don't visit the forums for whatever reason such as lack of access to a computer, not wanting to bother reading a 21-page threadnought, or because they just don't ever visit the forums at all. Therefore if anyone here likes to join in and help me explain things better to those people, that would be great. Aero, Avallo, and Rattati, if any of you can attend at that time, I will be happy. Just let me know. I'm available to record it if you think it useful..let me know. That would be great. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.22 23:35:00 - [412] - Quote Anyone any views on tiericide marginalising suits with lesser slot progression? eg. currently, scouts get one slot per tier, max. six. Assaults get two per tier, max. eight. Assaults will have an extra two slots for PG/CPU mods, scouts the one. Power creep is higher.
Criteria Shipment The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 980	Posted - 2015.05.22 23:46:00 - [413] - Quote Tbh, I never really thought of this. Any of us, even the devs themselves. This'll definetly help lengthen this game's lifetime.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.22 23:52:00 - [414] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Anyone any views on tiericide marginalising suits with lesser slot progression? eg. currently, scouts get one slot per tier, max. six. Assaults get two per tier, max. eight. Assaults will have an extra two slots for PG/CPU mods, scouts the one. Power creep is higher. It's likely that the Cores will be categorized by both race and role. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.23 01:16:00 - [415] - Quote Ok, I finally put together my lecture notes to use which will be using this thread as a primary reference. For those of you who never attended my lectures, just remember that the name of the channel is this: Lecture.D-UNI Type it in the search exactly as you see it here including that period. I often get a few players asking me why they can't get in when in reality they committed a spelling error. Again, it's going to be held this Saturday 23 May @ 1500 EST / 1900 GMT. I usually announce my lectures on Twitter. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
G Clone Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 121	Posted - 2015.05.23 07:02:00 - [416] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pHiL03gy5uNwjFAUQEljbFOn1bKJB96rT098BgoPpbo/edit?usp=sharing Looks like current escalation in CPU/PG differs between suit-sizes.
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.23 11:33:00 - [417] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Anyone any views on tiericide marginalising suits with lesser slot progression? eg. currently, scouts get one slot per tier, max. six. Assaults get two per tier, max. eight. Assaults will have an extra two slots for PG/CPU mods, scouts the one. Power creep is higher. It's likely that the Cores will be categorized by both race and role. Yeah that's my thinking too, but it doesn't address my question, which I don't think I explained very well. Scouts will get six slots. Assaults will get eight. Assaults get more room for PG/CPU mods, allowing their power to creep more than scouts. G Clone wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pHiL03gy5uNwjFAUQEljbFOn1bKJB96rT098BgoPpbo/edit?usp=sharing Looks like current escalation in CPU/PG differs between suit-sizes. Wow that's a surprise. STD assault has less PG/CPU than a STD scout (at least the Minmatar race that I looked at). But it doesn't continue in that fashion. ADV assault has more PG/CPU than ADV scout. Makes sense as they have more slots to fit... Anyway as Maken said, I think there will be cores per race / class, so the additional core bases not in your sheet will allow those multipliers to be even. If I understood that correctly.
pedro green Ormand Green Industries 2	Posted - 2015.05.23 12:10:00 - [418] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Taking an idea from Avallo Kantor and expanding it. Currently we have 120 unique base suits. 5 roles 4 races 3 tiers 3 variants aurum and ISK and LP Compounded together is 180. The SKIN system looks to eliminate redundant assets of BPO's, but let's take it a step further. Give all suits the slot layout of their prototype, then add a power core slot similar to the SKIN slot. The power core would add the tier appropriate CPU and PG. Suits would cost the same as standard, and then power cores will cost the equivalent difference in tier costs. There will also be aurum cores and LP cores unlocked early. Now you have 5 roles 4 races nothing else Compounded is 20 unique suits You just shaved off 160 suits from the memory cap. Even more if you do this to basic suits as well. Mind Blown. I am going to spreadsheet some stuff. YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2015.05.23 13:22:00 - [419] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Anyone any views on tiericide marginalising suits with lesser slot progression? eg. currently, scouts get one slot per tier, max. six. Assaults get two per tier, max. eight. Assaults will have an extra two slots for PG/CPU mods, scouts the one. Power creep is higher. It's likely that the Cores will be categorized by both race and role. Yeah that's my thinking too, but it doesn't address my question, which I don't think I explained very well. Scouts will get six slots. Assaults will get eight. Assaults get more room for PG/CPU mods, allowing their power to creep more than scouts. G Clone wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pHiL03gy5uNwjFAUQEljbFOn1bKJB96rT098BgoPpbo/edit?usp=sharing Looks like current escalation in CPU/PG differs between suit-sizes. Wow that's a surprise. STD assault has less PG/CPU than a STD scout (at least the Minmatar race that I looked at). But it doesn't continue in that fashion. ADV assault has more PG/CPU than ADV scout. Makes sense as they have more slots to fit... Anyway as Maken said, I think there will be cores per race / class, so the additional core bases not in your sheet will allow those multipliers to be even. If I understood that correctly. Your second explanation is much clearly, the first time made it sound like you wanted to put in a steeper power curve. Which., no bad Sometimes I THINK you're r-tarded, most times I KNOW you're r-tarded. I less than three you DUST forums.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.23 13:52:00 - [420] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Anyone any views on tiericide marginalising suits with lesser slot progression? eg. currently, scouts get one slot per tier, max. six. Assaults get two per tier, max. eight. Assaults will have an extra two slots for PG/CPU mods, scouts the one. Power creep is higher. It's likely that the Cores will be categorized by both race and role. Yeah that's my thinking too, but it doesn't address my question, which I don't think I explained very well. Scouts will get six slots. Assaults will get eight. Assaults get more room for PG/CPU mods, allowing their power to creep more than scouts. It was my understanding that scouts are always weaker than assaults in some areas. But what you're forgetting here are the bonuses. Scouts are the only suits that benefit from the cloaking fitting bonus and EWAR. Assaults do not benefit from this at all. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy



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