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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15216	Posted - 2015.01.20 09:33:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players, we want to talk about District Timers, in particular, the not-so-much-intended practice of safeguarding Districts into difficult timezones. There are a few ideas already on the table, not a complete list and I expect Kain Spero to show up pretty much instantly. Methods to reset, if we go that way A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings B) Redistribute - all Timers will be reset and fixed in a ratio that aligns with average PCU C) Reset and allow +-X timers around the default District Timer D) Reset and reduce the available option for Timers E) Reset and allow incremental jumps from the default Timer, rising exponentially in ISK cost per 30 minutes. I will add more. Please discuss. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 809	Posted - 2015.01.20 09:49:00 - [2] - Quote First again! \o/
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1189	Posted - 2015.01.20 09:49:00 - [3] - Quote Do you mind if we also use this thread to discuss ways of removing timers alltogether? SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3731	Posted - 2015.01.20 09:52:00 - [4] - Quote I guess i'm for option B. I mean, fixed timers, some for Europe, some for America and some for Asia. Of course each zone should have a range of timers, example of a good EU timer is from 18 to 23 (UTC). Situational awareness also known as passive scan. Minmatar omni-merc
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 720	Posted - 2015.01.20 10:00:00 - [5] - Quote if i may ask, - What will be the main impact of each change? - What is the end goal? To shorten timers? keep more districts available? Keeping more districts available to attack is a good thing, but i would go with the timer adjustments that fall more in line with new PC mechanics being planned. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15218	Posted - 2015.01.20 10:16:00 - [6] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: if i may ask, - What will be the main impact of each change? - What is the end goal? To shorten timers? keep more districts available? Keeping more districts available to attack is a good thing, but i would go with the timer adjustments that fall more in line with new PC mechanics being planned. Making it less easy to hide Districts in difficult timers, thus requiring a certain player count in your corporation per held District, as is common in warfare. Think of it as minimum Mercenary Coverage, or Garrisons. We want Corporations to need new recruits, that hopefully get trained and stay with the game, plus to reduce the obvious "gaming of the rules" as by placing all your Districts on TQ DT + 00:30 and buying Cargo Hub SI's. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4273	Posted - 2015.01.20 10:35:00 - [7] - Quote You summoned me and I'm here. I really think that CCP reaching into the sandbox to manipulate timers to "reset" them is a core violation of the sandbox. You currently have 12 Alliances and 72 Corporations involved in the system ( www.dustcharts.com ). How does reducing all of their holdings to ash and nullifying what work they have put into PC as dysfunctional as it is seem justifiable in anyway? Screwing over everyone to address the outlier that is Nyain San seems like an overreaction. Their ownership share has been shrinking steadily and they are already feeling the pressure of not having players at their current timers which can be seen in them shifting their timers mainly from 1200 to 1300. Many ideas have been put on the table to address the issue including Pokey's expanding timers related to activity here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187670 I would also say that a majority of planetary conquest players are open to the idea of implementing some sort of window system that can be seen in posts like Fox's here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2561895#post2561895 This is not a situation where a magic wand can be waved to address the issue. A good system that allows players to choose when they want to play on the land that they own and relate their activity to the maintenance of timers and wealth generation of districts seems like worth taking the time to implement rather than going off and doing a simplistic and shoddy fix. Allow timers to be adjustable but implement with an escalation of cost as in E, but use Warbarge components rather than ISK to adjust these timers. Second, allow a timer to only be shifted X hours per cycle to allow an owner that has their district a way to counter attack. Another option would be to remove the ability to change the timer immediately after taking a district, but allow it to be changed after a 24 hour cycle. This would allow an owner to counter attack, but if the district is defended then the timer can be manipulated based on costs and rules regarding how much a timer can be shifted in one go. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6620	Posted - 2015.01.20 10:45:00 - [8] - Quote Has to be a flexible system But not so flexible you can hide districts in the dead hours. Or lock districts. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4273	Posted - 2015.01.20 10:56:00 - [9] - Quote Another thing that would dramatically reduce people using timer hiding would be to implement a system where you can only attack a district within X hours of your own timer. If you hide a district then you should also use the utility of those clones in any attacks you plan. This could be worked into the "attack from a list" system so districts outside your attack window don't show up. Clone packs generated by player activity would still be free to attack any timer they wish though. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3470	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:06:00 - [10] - Quote Any form of timer can be gamed. Just remove the dam things and introduce hourly rewards. Or simple have timezone areas so certain areas are always open to attack in EU time and then locked off etc. Or put in a shield system where barrage a bases shields and the defenders get a warning to rally troops or somthing. TIMERS DO NOT WORK. Or hell use the Eve system you attack a base knock into a vaun state then 24 hours later it's open to attack or somthing. Timers just ruin the spontaneous nature of what PC could be and will always be gamed no matter what you do. You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance

Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4275	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:31:00 - [11] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Any form of timer can be gamed. Just remove the dam things and introduce hourly rewards. Or simple have timezone areas so certain areas are always open to attack in EU time and then locked off etc. Or put in a shield system where barrage a bases shields and the defenders get a warning to rally troops or somthing. TIMERS DO NOT WORK. Or hell use the Eve system you attack a base knock into a vaun state then 24 hours later it's open to attack or somthing. Timers just ruin the spontaneous nature of what PC could be and will always be gamed no matter what you do. I think having a way to affect districts instantly is good and needed in the form of raids etc., but you do need some way to schedule a fight so you actually have people show up on either end. You could always give less warning ( 20 hour minimum delay instead of 24 hours would dramatically change the current system). Folks have been discussing having districts have 4 hour windows that the attacker can then select the hour they will have the attack land the next day. I think a system like that strikes a good balance between attacker and defender advantage and it make trying hold 50+ districts without the manpower to back it up pretty much impossible. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3470	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:54:00 - [12] - Quote I think option to raid which then triggers a schedule fight is a good middle ground but the defenders choice when this fight is must be limited so they don't just make it a stuiped time. An idea is keep the final attack within 3-5 hours this allows clever use of early bird scouts while trying to limit the nature counter effect of attacking at a silly time rather than defending. i'm typing a on a smart phone so will post more though out idea later on You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1128	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:55:00 - [13] - Quote My proposal: 1. Redistribute all existing timers (option B) 2. Allow a corporation to swap the timers of two districts they control 3. Aside from that, timers cannot be changed This means that corps will battle over their share of timers, but will also conquer districts from out of their prime time so they can consolidate good timers around their home systems and otherwise groom their holdings. Dust/Eve transfers
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4276	Posted - 2015.01.20 12:01:00 - [14] - Quote If the problem is timers being stacked around low PCU times rather than resetting all timers why not just tackle the problem area and do something like scramble timers set between 0800 to 1400 UTC? If you look at www.dustcharts.com you can see that timers are already fairly evenly distributed with the outlier being the spike at 1300. I still think that CCP going in and changing around the current timers feels like a violation of the sandbox though. At least minimize that violation. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15237	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:11:00 - [15] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: If the problem is timers being stacked around low PCU times rather than resetting all timers why not just tackle the problem area and do something like scramble timers set between 0800 to 1400 UTC? If you look at www.dustcharts.com you can see that timers are already fairly evenly distributed with the outlier being the spike at 1300. I still think that CCP going in and changing around the current timers feels like a violation of the sandbox though. At least minimize that violation. "violation" of sandbox, these are game rules that were decided at a single point in dusts life. They are no more sacred than any other rule. Doesn't mean it should be done without due diligence, but can and should be done if necessary. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:20:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we want to talk about District Timers, in particular, the not-so-much-intended practice of safeguarding Districts into difficult timezones. There are a few ideas already on the table, not a complete list and I expect Kain Spero to show up pretty much instantly. Methods to reset, if we go that way A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings B) Redistribute - all Timers will be reset and fixed in a ratio that aligns with average PCU C) Reset and allow +-X timers around the default District Timer D) Reset and reduce the available option for Timers E) Reset and allow incremental jumps from the default Timer, rising exponentially in ISK cost per 30 minutes. I will add more. Please discuss. A) - Screws everyone really and its luck if you get a timer that you can defend/attack because it is not then the district is lost B) - Depends on the ratio, may favour more corps than others C/D) Read the same to me E) Prob the best but richest corps profit F) Why is it bad if corps put all there districts into crappy timezones, its metagaming and being a pain in the arse which is EVE all over anyways
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2397	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:23:00 - [17] - Quote If timers are to be kept (and can be set by players), I'd put forward that whatever time is "set" be the middle of a 6 hour window. Example PCScrubs seizes a District successfully and sets their timer for 0000 UTC. Attacks can be started against them between 2100 UTC and 0300 UTC. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Now, having said that, I do not think that timers should be a thing unless they exist like POS timers do in Eve. Add X amount of fuel, District Defense Array RFs the District for Y hours. In any case, I think that timers are just a means of limiting the sandbox that we're supposed to be in. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 167	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:24:00 - [18] - Quote A) Stupid B) Stupid C) Stupid D) What does it mean? E) What is the default timer? Default for whom? Americans? Europeans? Japanese? Why do you ever want to reset timers? This is totally defenders matter, not even you as a developers. This timer help them to maximize their chance to protect their districts. Can you write in detail what is wrong with timers now? <[^_^]>
Mr Machine Guns 1000	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:42:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we want to talk about District Timers, in particular, the not-so-much-intended practice of safeguarding Districts into difficult timezones. There are a few ideas already on the table, not a complete list and I expect Kain Spero to show up pretty much instantly. Methods to reset, if we go that way A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings B) Redistribute - all Timers will be reset and fixed in a ratio that aligns with average PCU C) Reset and allow +-X timers around the default District Timer D) Reset and reduce the available option for Timers E) Reset and allow incremental jumps from the default Timer, rising exponentially in ISK cost per 30 minutes. I will add more. Please discuss. Timers are not the number 1 problem with pc atm. The main problem with pc is there is no incentive for new corps to get into pc because there is no good way to make isk back from using clone packs to take districts. CCP needs to introduce a new way to make pc profitable for corps in pc. The way i would see it is you have district make items for players in EVE and these items go into a market and the only way a corp makes isk is when a players buys said item and not dependent on a timer that adds clones when passive isk was in place. But to set timers to a random thing is just unfair considering CCP downtimes takes away district slots for Asian corps so that another thing CCP has to realize because no other time zone really has to deal with that have a timer when no district can be set to. I think CCP needs to fix the way corps make isk before timers need to be dealt with. This is something else you could do you can only set a certain % of your districts to a given timer because corps that have taken a district deserve the right to set the timer for their district.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1498	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:15:00 - [20] - Quote How about instead of limiting what times you can play there is some sort of penalty for multiple districts on same timer. CONCORD can tax the corp X amount of ISK for each additional district on a timer.

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6627	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:19:00 - [21] - Quote Skybladev2 wrote: This timer help them to maximize their chance to protect their districts. This statement is what is wrong with timers. Maximizing chances to defend are neat. Making it so no one else can really fight you for the district in the first place isn't playing the game. It's risk aversion and bluntly the reason a lot of this game is lost potential. If you want to have a district you should have to FIGHT to keep it. The ability to bury districts in bad time zones was an outlier, but it was as exploitive as district locking. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 809	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:23:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If the problem is timers being stacked around low PCU times rather than resetting all timers why not just tackle the problem area and do something like scramble timers set between 0800 to 1400 UTC? If you look at www.dustcharts.com you can see that timers are already fairly evenly distributed with the outlier being the spike at 1300. I still think that CCP going in and changing around the current timers feels like a violation of the sandbox though. At least minimize that violation. "violation" of sandbox, these are game rules that were decided at a single point in dusts life. They are no more sacred than any other rule. Doesn't mean it should be done without due diligence, but can and should be done if necessary. remove timers completely... battles start 24 hrs initiated by an aggressor, just like eve war dec mechanics.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4282	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:32:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If the problem is timers being stacked around low PCU times rather than resetting all timers why not just tackle the problem area and do something like scramble timers set between 0800 to 1400 UTC? If you look at www.dustcharts.com you can see that timers are already fairly evenly distributed with the outlier being the spike at 1300. I still think that CCP going in and changing around the current timers feels like a violation of the sandbox though. At least minimize that violation. "violation" of sandbox, these are game rules that were decided at a single point in dusts life. They are no more sacred than any other rule. Doesn't mean it should be done without due diligence, but can and should be done if necessary. Changing the rules around timers is one thing but unilaterally going in and changing everyone's timers for them seems like a horse of a different color. It seems that you all would be able to come up with a solution that introduces some form of counterplay to timer hiding without having to force people's hand. Can you let us know what the current % of players is per hour based on PCU, so players can provide some informed feedback on timer adjustments that are going to be based on something like that? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5480	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:51:00 - [24] - Quote Removing the ability to change timers simply makes sense. I've gotten a lot of feedback over the past few weeks on it, but I haven't gotten a single gameplay-justified reason to keep the ability to move a timer. It seemed to come down to an emotional appeal of "taking away something from players", even though the thing suggested to take away is bad for players, and we can introduce new, better mechanics instead in other ways. The ability to change a districts' timer really only has one purpose: To prevent it from getting attacked. That's not what we want in an environment of healthy, active district churn. And that's one of the problems with many of Kane's ideas. Kane Spero's suggestions are not designed to prevent squatting of districts, as taking away rewards for squatting districts is unsatisfactory. People will squat districts in odd timers for no reward too. Whether they're useful or not, districts should not be able to be hung onto if not being defended, as we want new players and new corps to have opportunities to get involved. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5480	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:54:00 - [25] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: You currently have 12 Alliances and 72 Corporations involved in the system ( www.dustcharts.com ). How does reducing all of their holdings to ash and nullifying what work they have put into PC as dysfunctional as it is seem justifiable in anyway? Effectively a new version of the game mode? Congrats on winning Season 1. Now time to start Season 2. Your rewards are the billions of free ISK you got. (Many competitive games reset standings seasonally, with such a major mechanics change, it makes sense to reset some things.) Kain Spero wrote: Another thing that would dramatically reduce people using timer hiding would be to implement a system where you can only attack a district within X hours of your own timer. If you hide a district then you should also use the utility of those clones in any attacks you plan. This could be worked into the "attack from a list" system so districts outside your attack window don't show up. Clone packs generated by player activity would still be free to attack any timer they wish though. Doesn't prevent squatting. Just prevents using squatted districts. Doesn't address the problem. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 146	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:54:00 - [26] - Quote CCP.....why you talking to Kain as if Kain is CPM still. I'm not a Kain hater never have been. He knows that. Just curious why Rattati you giving Kain special attention and he not even a CPM or has a corp to PC with. Again not a Kain hater just find it crazy a Dev pointed out a player in his post. Regardless what it is about. Kind of shows favoritism in my eyes. Like you miss Kain or something Ratatti. Anyways....I live on one side of the world. CCP it self is clearly on the other side of the world. The exact oppisite side. Having a window for every region. Nyain San and others on that side of the world. Are still going to put there timers for us 5am for them 5pm. Not the fault of Nyain San or any other corp where they are located in the world. No matter what system you put in. Not going to change that we are in totally different time zones. 12 hours apart in some areas. So what you going to do when an American team owns 20% and timers on 8pm est. guess what the others side of the world it's 8am. Again no matter what system you do. Prime time for me is not prime time for ASIA or EU. Or UK....it's impossible to cater to everyone. We live on two oppiste sides of the world. No matter what. No matter what!!! 8pm for me is 8am for the other side. Regardless what you do. You will always be benifit one side of the world or the other. Impossible to make it fair. Time is time and you can't change it, turn it back, slow it down, or speed it up. Time is time, and every part of the world has its own Prime Time Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5480	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:59:00 - [27] - Quote Ghostt Shadoww wrote: CCP.....why you talking to Kain as if Kain is CPM still. I'm not a Kain hater never have been. He knows that. Just curious why Rattati you giving Kain special attention and he not even a CPM or has a corp to PC with. If Kain was being talked to like a CPM, he would've been talked to on Skype in private. Rattati is merely noting the expectation that Kain would show up, as he has been incredibly vocal on the issue on the forums, on the podcast, and in a public Skype channel. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
zex ll X Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:00:00 - [28] - Quote Dust User wrote: How about instead of limiting what times you can play there is some sort of penalty for multiple districts on same timer. CONCORD can tax the corp X amount of ISK for each additional district on a timer. I like this idea.
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 146	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:05:00 - [29] - Quote My Suggestion....... I think the only way to make this fair for the entire world...is to make this like real life. Have no timers at all. When a corp attacks another corp. Battle starts in 24 hours from Attack. That way it's like real life in a way. CCP im 15 years U.S. Navy Retiredas you well know.mNow days we know where the battle is going to take place what day and time roughly for both side us and the enemy. Hard to do a surprise attack now. With all the satellite and radar now. We can see army's mass and getting ready for a strike. So we have time to form or make an extraction plan. So with that said. If I take a battle group from USA across the Pacific to China I'll be there in 24 hours. And china will see me coming and get themselves ready. War doesn't care what time it is. Or where you live in the world. But you do have notice. You can plan and prepare. So leave it open. That way it's kind of like eve. You have to protect your stuff 24/7 and be available at anytime. If someone attacks you at 5am we'll fight will be 5am tomorrow... You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... Honestly any other way. How can it be fair. You will always cater to a certain region without even knowing it Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 146	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:09:00 - [30] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: CCP.....why you talking to Kain as if Kain is CPM still. I'm not a Kain hater never have been. He knows that. Just curious why Rattati you giving Kain special attention and he not even a CPM or has a corp to PC with. If Kain was being talked to like a CPM, he would've been talked to on Skype in private. Rattati is merely noting the expectation that Kain would show up, as he has been incredibly vocal on the issue on the forums, on the podcast, and in a public Skype channel. It's favortism period....a Dev should never point out a player in a thread. Keep it professional. It can be taken wrong like I pointed out. No need to mention a player name. A Dev needs to give info to the community. Not say Hey Kain, I've done something think you would enjoy come check it out. There lots of talk and heat in the past with Kain , CPM, and Devs. So why add wood to the fire. Keep it professional not personal. Talk to Dust not an individual player. We are the voice. Not one man that doesn't even PC Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4432	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:18:00 - [31] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Many ideas have been put on the table to address the issue including Pokey's expanding timers related to activity here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187670 Damnit beat me to it "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 361	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:45:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we want to talk about District Timers, in particular, the not-so-much-intended practice of safeguarding Districts into difficult timezones. There are a few ideas already on the table, not a complete list and I expect Kain Spero to show up pretty much instantly. Methods to reset, if we go that way A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings B) Redistribute - all Timers will be reset and fixed in a ratio that aligns with average PCU C) Reset and allow +-X timers around the default District Timer D) Reset and reduce the available option for Timers E) Reset and allow incremental jumps from the default Timer, rising exponentially in ISK cost per 30 minutes. I will add more. Please discuss. If we go back in Summer 2013 on the feedback forums (and probably also in the war room), there are plenty of great suggestions and plenty of arguments. Back then, people (me included) used to complain about EU typical timers being vulnerable by both Asia / Australia and US timezones while the other two were almost invulnerable to EU players. EU typical timer: from 14:00 to 00:00 Eve Time. From 14:00 to 18:00 our districts are vulnerable to asian players while from 19:00 to 00:00 we are vulnerable to US timezone. But we also have no chance to attack back because of the 13:00 stack by "someone" and because of US typical timers being usually too late (remember being awake at 05:00 AM against Teamplayers, Syn etc, remember Mr. Gloo Gloo and Eukesei waking up because of a PC every 3 hours of sleep etc). I think a -1, +1 attack window, where attacker can decide when to attack in that 3 hours window would have solved the problem back then. But this wouldn't actually solve the problem now that the majority of the hardcore PC players are gone. I think the best and most reasonable thing to do is to reduce the available options for timers so that Planetary conquest is a bit more "under control". There could also be a crazy huge change. And by crazy huge change I mean a +2 / -2 attack window on each district. It may work, it may also "solve" somehow the problem with relatively small corporations holding too much land for their size and will help with land distribution, alliances forimg and maybe (seriously, maybe) someone who left long time ago may even come back. Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4433	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:49:00 - [33] - Quote Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 551	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:53:00 - [34] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? 1. Yes 2. Its the same in EVE 3. You play to your corps advantages and your enemies weakness 4. HTFU but in DUST it doesnt exist anymore
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6631	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:56:00 - [35] - Quote Ghostt Shadoww wrote: We are the voice. Not one man that doesn't even PC WE are the voice, regardless if we PC. get over yourself and quit being butthurt about Kain. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5482	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:04:00 - [36] - Quote Ghostt Shadoww wrote: It's favortism period....a Dev should never point out a player in a thread. Keep it professional. It can be taken wrong like I pointed out. No need to mention a player name. A Dev needs to give info to the community. Not say Hey Kain, I've done something think you would enjoy come check it out. There lots of talk and heat in the past with Kain , CPM, and Devs. So why add wood to the fire. Keep it professional not personal. Talk to Dust not an individual player. We are the voice. Not one man that doesn't even PC Actually, he was well aware Kain would NOT like this thread. o_o Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? This. Timers are crucial for ensuring the work you do while you're playing isn't immediately rendered pointless by things that happen during the time you can't play. Trying to hold anything would be impossible without timers. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4433	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:08:00 - [37] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? 1. Yes 2. Its the same in EVE 3. You play to your corps advantages and your enemies weakness 4. HTFU but in DUST it doesnt exist anymore So...basically what you want is districts being flipped basically back and forth daily. Japanese corps attack the American corps, American corps will wake up early for a while but eventually it'll get old. So Japanese corps will just take all the districts they want, and then the Americans will respond by taking them back the following day. Eventually no one bothers showing up because no one wants to wake up at 4AM every day to play a video game before work, and PC turns into nothing but no-shows. God that just sounds super fun! "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4290	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:10:00 - [38] - Quote As a few people have suggested, windows of attack in the 2-4 hour range seem to make a lot more sense than the specific 1 hour timer set-up that we have now. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 551	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:12:00 - [39] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? 1. Yes 2. Its the same in EVE 3. You play to your corps advantages and your enemies weakness 4. HTFU but in DUST it doesnt exist anymore So...basically what you want is districts being flipped basically back and forth daily. Japanese corps attack the American corps, American corps will wake up early for a while but eventually it'll get old. So Japanese corps will just take all the districts they want, and then the Americans will respond by taking them back the following day. Eventually no one bothers showing up because no one wants to wake up at 4AM every day to play a video game before work, and PC turns into nothing but no-shows. God that just sounds super fun! 1. Dont blame me blame the system 2. We can move timers to our advantage now anyways and really none of these propsals for PC even seem to work at all
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14526	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:13:00 - [40] - Quote If the timers are fixed, they better make geographical sense in the game. As in, districts close to each other are very very close in their timers. The districts on a planet should have a max deviance of 2 hours on their timers. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4435	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:15:00 - [41] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Dont blame me blame the system 2. We can move timers to our advantage now anyways and really none of these propsals for PC even seem to work at all I would love to hear your thoughts on the my proposal that Kane linked earlier in the thread, and any criticisms about how it would not work. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 148	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:24:00 - [42] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? 1. Yes 2. Its the same in EVE 3. You play to your corps advantages and your enemies weakness 4. HTFU but in DUST it doesnt exist anymore So...basically what you want is districts being flipped basically back and forth daily. Japanese corps attack the American corps, American corps will wake up early for a while but eventually it'll get old. So Japanese corps will just take all the districts they want, and then the Americans will respond by taking them back the following day. Eventually no one bothers showing up because no one wants to wake up at 4AM every day to play a video game before work, and PC turns into nothing but no-shows. God that just sounds super fun! Your stupid....that's what the alliance is for dumb dumb...anyways the real people are talking about this topic in the war room. Under Akins post about Nyain san.... Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 148	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:25:00 - [43] - Quote Rattati and all other Devs... Feel free to follow us in the war room about this topic. Where the real Dust community hangs out. Us dust Vets are currently brainstorming. Go read all our (Dust Vets) suggestions in the war room. Under Kain post about Nyain San and CCP See you there Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4435	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:26:00 - [44] - Quote Ghostt Shadoww wrote: Your stupid.... You're* "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 551	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:31:00 - [45] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Dont blame me blame the system 2. We can move timers to our advantage now anyways and really none of these propsals for PC even seem to work at all I would love to hear your thoughts on the my proposal that Kane linked earlier in the thread, and any criticisms about how it would not work. 1. You are forced to play pub matches by the looks of it and pub matches are bad enough
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5482	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:32:00 - [46] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: As a few people have suggested, windows of attack in the 2-4 hour range seem to make a lot more sense than the specific 1 hour timer set-up that we have now. This is a hugely exclusionary system that would greatly reduce the number of corps that could hold a district in PC. Because it multiplies the amount of time your corp has to be able to field full teams to be able to be viable, and forces PC organizers to block out their entire evening to defend a single district. I like Pokey's expanding timer system that doesn't unfairly punish single district holders who are actively using it. But I think it'd be a whole patch in itself to implement, and I'd rather get features like district raiding in first. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3472	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:32:00 - [47] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: It's favortism period....a Dev should never point out a player in a thread. Keep it professional. It can be taken wrong like I pointed out. No need to mention a player name. A Dev needs to give info to the community. Not say Hey Kain, I've done something think you would enjoy come check it out. There lots of talk and heat in the past with Kain , CPM, and Devs. So why add wood to the fire. Keep it professional not personal. Talk to Dust not an individual player. We are the voice. Not one man that doesn't even PC Actually, he was well aware Kain would NOT like this thread. o_o Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? This. Timers are crucial for ensuring the work you do while you're playing isn't immediately rendered pointless by things that happen during the time you can't play. Trying to hold anything would be impossible without timers. I skipped ahead because I wanted to address the point. why not change how rewards are dished out too. It's perfectly possable all the parts of PC are not really working. ownership is a EVE thing. We are about blowing the living **** out of anything that moves. Why not move PC into a king of a hill mindset. Longer you hold the space the more rent money. Secondly reduce the size of PC until hiding is not option. This encourages people to hack and hold what ever they got and hold it as long as possable thus generating fights. or put another way. Why are not just starting fresh and trying out new ideas. PC didn't work let's try again. Maybe this time put the focus on Corp numbers with option of small groups being hired out to fill these numbers. Again typing from work rushed sorry =ƒÿò You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4435	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:32:00 - [48] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Dont blame me blame the system 2. We can move timers to our advantage now anyways and really none of these propsals for PC even seem to work at all I would love to hear your thoughts on the my proposal that Kane linked earlier in the thread, and any criticisms about how it would not work. 1. You are forced to play pub matches by the looks of it and pub matches are bad enough I never said in the proposal that you're forced to play pubs. Battle activity during the window would generate fuel, this includes fighting in FacWar or PC. Anything else? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 551	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:40:00 - [49] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Dont blame me blame the system 2. We can move timers to our advantage now anyways and really none of these propsals for PC even seem to work at all I would love to hear your thoughts on the my proposal that Kane linked earlier in the thread, and any criticisms about how it would not work. 1. You are forced to play pub matches by the looks of it and pub matches are bad enough I never said in the proposal that you're forced to play pubs. Battle activity during the window would generate fuel, this includes fighting in FacWar or PC. Anything else? 1. What if you log on just for PC? 2. Windows are too large i mean 12hrs thats half a day where you could get hammered by a corp thats on a diff TZ which means back to same problems and luck of the draw and even then you have to put aside a whole evening incase you get attacked 3. Smaller corps or near dead corps who just want to play PC are punished by larger corps who just spam pubs so you get 1 hour window at best which again could be at there peak TZ and not yours so again back to the same problem
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4435	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:53:00 - [50] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Dont blame me blame the system 2. We can move timers to our advantage now anyways and really none of these propsals for PC even seem to work at all I would love to hear your thoughts on the my proposal that Kane linked earlier in the thread, and any criticisms about how it would not work. 1. You are forced to play pub matches by the looks of it and pub matches are bad enough I never said in the proposal that you're forced to play pubs. Battle activity during the window would generate fuel, this includes fighting in FacWar or PC. Anything else? 1. What if you log on just for PC? 2. Windows are too large i mean 12hrs thats half a day where you could get hammered by a corp thats on a diff TZ which means back to same problems and luck of the draw and even then you have to put aside a whole evening incase you get attacked 3. Smaller corps or near dead corps who just want to play PC are punished by larger corps who just spam pubs so you get 1 hour window at best which again could be at there peak TZ and not yours so again back to the same problem 1. If you're being attacked every day, defending that district every day should generate enough fuel to maintain that district. Additionally if you're attacking, a similar principle applies. As I mention in the thread, it may be beneficial to widen the fuel generation window slightly (Maybe 1 hour on either side) to account for PC attack battles that take place off of your timer but still within your effective daily time of play. The fact of the matter is that if you want to own a district, a proportional part of your corporation must be actively playing any part of the game around the time your districts timers are set up. 2. Maximum window is 12 hours if you consistently fail to generate enough fuel every day. If properly maintained with a reasonable amount of activity during your reinforcement time, the attack window is 1 hour long. You have to severely neglect your districts to end up with a 12 hour timer. Maintaining the 1 hour window would be easy given reasonable levels of play during those times if your player-count is reasonably proportionate to the number of districts held. 3. Again the required activity is relative to the number of districts held. If a corporation only has 16 guys, that's the minimum required to defend a district. It would be easy for 16 guys who play at a reasonable rate to produce enough fuel to maintain the 1 hour timer on a single district. It would however be more difficult for them to produce enough fuel for 2 or more districts. This limitation directly prevents small corporations from holding more land than their numbers should support. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Brush Master Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1400	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:15:00 - [51] - Quote Going with a simple approach. What if you go with timers that shift on a certain time frame, say every week. Disable current ability to change a timer Implement a script that time shifts every district on the weekly reset. Shift should only be 1-2 hrs and random +/- If needed, basic logic to make sure a single timer zone is not over saturated, aka if 13:00 has over xx % skip any shifts to that time frame. Besides the disable timer on the client side, everything sounds like something that a server side script would run and modify all the districts. Slow time shifts would encourage players to attack districts that have shifted into a friendly time frame? Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports
SoTa PoP Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 5764	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:45:00 - [52] - Quote .... Seriously CCP? The concept of region lock is broken for the same reason your match making is - not enough people. PC is a sandbox - stop trying to violate it. You've done enough damage with the removal of passive ISK without a decent replacement. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5482	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:49:00 - [53] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: PC is a sandbox - stop trying to violate it. You've done enough damage with the removal of passive ISK without a decent replacement. The notion "it's a sandbox" is irrelevant if it doesn't also offer compelling gameplay. This is not a valuable argument. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4436	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:57:00 - [54] - Quote Brush Master wrote: Going with a simple approach. What if you go with timers that shift on a certain time frame, say every week. Disable current ability to change a timer Implement a script that time shifts every district on the weekly reset. Shift should only be 1-2 hrs and random +/- If needed, basic logic to make sure a single timer zone is not over saturated, aka if 13:00 has over xx % skip any shifts to that time frame. Besides the disable timer on the client side, everything sounds like something that a server side script would run and modify all the districts. Slow time shifts would encourage players to attack districts that have shifted into a friendly time frame? I have a couple issues with restrictive or fixed timers. For one, you're basically entirely dependent on an algorithm to properly balance time zones and quite honestly I have zero faith that it would work properly, not to mention that automated systems meant to control player activity...are often prone to being gamed. However my main issue is that in the grand scheme of things, we want location to matter, right? And ideally the location of your districts and warbarge flotilla and assets should all matter. But now suddenly you have the game basically dictating where you can set up shop because its deciding where those reinforcement timers are going to be. So essentially 2 things can happen. 1. Location of timers is clumped together, so that one region of space is North America and another region is Asia, and another UK, ect. However now if an alliance wants to work with corporations from other regions, they are forcefully separated, and their districts and assets will not be able to readily support one another. 2. Location times are randomly spread out, so you have maybe a planet with 8 districts, 2 are NA, 2 are AU, 2 are UK, and 2 are JP. Well now if say a UK corporation have the manpower to hold 4 districts...they can really only hold 2 because that planet's timers make the other districts impossible to hold for them. Additionally those 4 groups will probably never fight one another despite being neighbors, because the timers are locked and at bad times for them, leading to further stagnation. Either way I don't see it working properly and it's a simple, but overly clunky system. This is the primary reasony why I made my proposal, to allow timers to be moved to avoid the restriction, but also force corporations to be active during their timer, as to stop them from moving them to a weird off-time. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 552	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:01:00 - [55] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: 1. If you're being attacked every day, defending that district every day should generate enough fuel to maintain that district. Additionally if you're attacking, a similar principle applies. As I mention in the thread, it may be beneficial to widen the fuel generation window slightly (Maybe 1 hour on either side) to account for PC attack battles that take place off of your timer but still within your effective daily time of play. The fact of the matter is that if you want to own a district, a proportional part of your corporation must be actively playing any part of the game around the time your districts timers are set up. 2. Maximum window is 12 hours if you consistently fail to generate enough fuel every day. If properly maintained with a reasonable amount of activity during your reinforcement time, the attack window is 1 hour long. You have to severely neglect your districts to end up with a 12 hour timer. Maintaining the 1 hour window would be easy given reasonable levels of play during those times if your player-count is reasonably proportionate to the number of districts held. 3. Again the required activity is relative to the number of districts held. If a corporation only has 16 guys, that's the minimum required to defend a district. It would be easy for 16 guys who play at a reasonable rate to produce enough fuel to maintain the 1 hour timer on a single district. It would however be more difficult for them to produce enough fuel for 2 or more districts. This limitation directly prevents small corporations from holding more land than their numbers should support. 1. So 1 match keeps it to a 1hour window of attack? 1a. If you make 3hr window then again it means you need to have 16 ready for 3hrs 2./3 If a small corp is good enough to maintain a number of districts by pure skill and teamwork then really why do they need this fuel bollocks because as it is now they could hold a number of districts anyways but under your plan they would be punished because they need more fuel so have to play alot more games for each member than a larger corp would have to - You are punishing them because of there corp size when its actual skill at playing the game that should determine who wins and how many districts they can hold before its too much
SoTa PoP Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 5764	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:13:00 - [56] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: PC is a sandbox - stop trying to violate it. You've done enough damage with the removal of passive ISK without a decent replacement. The notion "it's a sandbox" is irrelevant if it doesn't also offer compelling gameplay. This is not a valuable argument. Compelling gameplay is a problem with the core mechanics, and using it as an excuse to change PC how you want is just corrupt. This isn't going to make it more compelling with less land available and a higher chance that a corp will dominate your time zone completely. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4436	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:14:00 - [57] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. So 1 match keeps it to a 1hour window of attack? 1a. If you make 3hr window then again it means you need to have 16 ready for 3hrs 2./3 If a small corp is good enough to maintain a number of districts by pure skill and teamwork then really why do they need this fuel bollocks because as it is now they could hold a number of districts anyways but under your plan they would be punished because they need more fuel so have to play alot more games for each member than a larger corp would have to - You are punishing them because of there corp size when its actual skill at playing the game that should determine who wins and how many districts they can hold before its too much 1. Exact values may vary but essentially around that much, since you would have 16 people playing. Additionally PC could generate more fuel per match than pubs or facwar, requiring fewer PC matches to reach your quote and more pubs to reach the quota. 1a. Read carefully. I never said the attack window would increase to 3 hours, just that you would be able to generate fuel one hour prior to one our post the attack window. Values are of course subject to change but as an example if your time is set to 2000, you could generate fuel anytime between 1900 and 2100. 2. Well a small corp can't run multiple PC matches at once, so they would spread their windows out, meaning that the relative amount of activity per hour is still the same. Requiring small corps to actually play the game during the times they have their timers set, is not punishing them for being a small corp. If their districts are spread out over a 3-4 hour time period, then all they have to do is play a handful of matches over that 3-4 hour spread. As I've said before, the required quota for a 1 hour timer is not difficult to reach, and even a small corporation that spreads its timers out instead of stacking them would have zero difficulty maintaining several districts. What it does prevent however is prevent corps of any size from hiding their districts at odd times where no one in their corporation plays. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5482	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:20:00 - [58] - Quote Pokey, location mattering being partially mitigated by timer distribution is possibly the only justification for allowing timer changes. However, we don't know how location is going to matter yet. And I don't think empires should be so big that corps are controlling whole planets in a system as small as ours. I would think a group large enough and active enough to have such a large empire that fixed timers becomes an issue would be large enough to span multiple time zones anyways. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 555	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:22:00 - [59] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. So 1 match keeps it to a 1hour window of attack? 1a. If you make 3hr window then again it means you need to have 16 ready for 3hrs 2./3 If a small corp is good enough to maintain a number of districts by pure skill and teamwork then really why do they need this fuel bollocks because as it is now they could hold a number of districts anyways but under your plan they would be punished because they need more fuel so have to play alot more games for each member than a larger corp would have to - You are punishing them because of there corp size when its actual skill at playing the game that should determine who wins and how many districts they can hold before its too much 1. Exact values may vary but essentially around that much, since you would have 16 people playing. Additionally PC could generate more fuel per match than pubs or facwar, requiring fewer PC matches to reach your quote and more pubs to reach the quota. 1a. Read carefully. I never said the attack window would increase to 3 hours, just that you would be able to generate fuel one hour prior to one our post the attack window. Values are of course subject to change but as an example if your time is set to 2000, you could generate fuel anytime between 1900 and 2100. 2. Well a small corp can't run multiple PC matches at once, so they would spread their windows out, meaning that the relative amount of activity per hour is still the same. Requiring small corps to actually play the game during the times they have their timers set, is not punishing them for being a small corp. If their districts are spread out over a 3-4 hour time period, then all they have to do is play a handful of matches over that 3-4 hour spread. As I've said before, the required quota for a 1 hour timer is not difficult to reach, and even a small corporation that spreads its timers out instead of stacking them would have zero difficulty maintaining several districts. What it does prevent however is prevent corps of any size from hiding their districts at odd times where no one in their corporation plays. 1a. At 2100 its one hour past the 2000 so why bother? 2. Why shouldnt corps be allowed to whack timers into no play zones? you get no passive isk anyways since that is gone and either way if they play pubs all day then the no go timers still get shield or just get a token aussie in to play at odd times for the rest of the corp 3. I really cannot see how this solves anything, just makes it more complicated for the same problems to pop up
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 571	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:22:00 - [60] - Quote Just throwing a silly idea out there. What if the concept of an attack window were flipped around? So instead of the defenders selecting a +/-2 h window (in which the attackers can choose a specific time), let the attackers declare an attack 24/7, but the defenders can modify the attack time +/- Xh (for example +/-4h). So, unless they defenders take any action to modify the time, the attack will start after 24h.

Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 36	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:24:00 - [61] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Any form of timer can be gamed. Just remove the dam things and introduce hourly rewards. Or simple have timezone areas so certain areas are always open to attack in EU time and then locked off etc. Or put in a shield system where barrage a bases shields and the defenders get a warning to rally troops or somthing. TIMERS DO NOT WORK. Or hell use the Eve system you attack a base knock into a vaun state then 24 hours later it's open to attack or somthing. Timers just ruin the spontaneous nature of what PC could be and will always be gamed no matter what you do. I think the timers should be that your planet it open to attack during a window you set X to X. Then to not give the holding corp too much power, we throw in the pub or FW matches! FW version - Each corp aligns to a faction and gains bonuses accordingly. Then if that faction loses X battles the system security changes and now the timers are removed and the attackers determine the attack time. Another way to run this with pub matches is that the corp chooses, a district on a planet and a block of pub matches (say 3). If those are lost then the timer is nullified until the next up time and the district is unsecured and open to attacks set at any time by the attackers. If a corp tries to attack another corp while the timer is in place, the defending corp gets notified and the attacking corp has to say (attack one more time to capture the district). This will make corps pull for pub matches to be won. Or if you go FW matches. Finally the Caldari will have corps fighting for them (They better get a good bonus). Let me know what you think. I like the idea of incorporating the other matches. Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 407	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:26:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we want to talk about District Timers, in particular, the not-so-much-intended practice of safeguarding Districts into difficult timezones. There are a few ideas already on the table, not a complete list and I expect Kain Spero to show up pretty much instantly. Methods to reset, if we go that way A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings B) Redistribute - all Timers will be reset and fixed in a ratio that aligns with average PCU C) Reset and allow +-X timers around the default District Timer D) Reset and reduce the available option for Timers E) Reset and allow incremental jumps from the default Timer, rising exponentially in ISK cost per 30 minutes. I will add more. Please discuss. It's a real shame we don't have PvE. Abandoned districts (no activity over a set period of time) become invested with Proto-Drones. Needing a 16 man team to clear them or the district is lost to the corp for 7 days. This allows other corps to attack and claim the territory via the same PvE mechanic... rather than just dropping a clone pack on an abandoned district. In this way, corporations are limited by the number of matches they can field per hour. Ultimately a corporation cannot own too many districts on one timer due to the mechanic of Swarm Infestation. This is lore friendly due to our being in Molden Heath's Low-Sec Space is to help the Minmatar Thukker Tribe police the habital worlds, keeping the Pirates at bay. Inactivity equates into an opportunity to the Pirate Factions whom send in reprogrammed Rogue Drones to take possession of the planets. Original post from March 2014 What's that mercs? You have never seen the drones? Dust 514: Gathering Forces Trailer I think it is time to Beta Test that Drone AI bro... Want to get Warbarge Clone Packs dropped by small upcoming corps? Give non-land owners a clone boost if they beat the drones. Create WP events that grants players access to a Drone Infestation. Hell make that a mechanic, so that PvE does not put a strain on the normal PvP servers. Faction Drones opens up Fac Warfare to many more guys that often wait 2-3 hours for the queues to start running. Snowball effect begins as Critical Mass in the queues occurs due to players not logging off, more players with something to do rather than fight the same people over and over. Player retention is a Primary Goal, keeping them logged in and playing is key. This may be a path to that end. http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4436	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:41:00 - [63] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1a. At 2100 its one hour past the 2000 so why bother? 2. Why shouldn't corps be allowed to whack timers into no play zones? you get no passive isk anyways since that is gone and either way if they play pubs all day then the no go timers still get shield or just get a token aussie in to play at odd times for the rest of the corp 3. I really cannot see how this solves anything, just makes it more complicated for the same problems to pop up 1a. This is primarily to give people some wiggle room in when their activity takes place, but isn't required. 2. Um because players should have their districts at times people actually play at? Otherwise you get the same crap we've had before? You state that under the assumption that the profit and benefit of owning a district won't be changed. They will.. Also "A Token Aussie" would be incapable of maintaining an entire district by himself, and even if you had a handful of "token aussies" would have limitations on how many districts they can maintain, especially if you stack them on the same time slot. 3. Problems this proposal addresses a. Heavily discourages players from stacking districts on the same time slot b. Heavily discourages players from placing timers in time zones they are not active in c. Prevents very small groups from holding large chunks of land, but allows them to hold a reasonable amount relative to their size d. Avoids the rigid mess that is Static Timers e. Requires people to actually play the game in order to gain benefit from it "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 563	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:53:00 - [64] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1a. At 2100 its one hour past the 2000 so why bother? 2. Why shouldn't corps be allowed to whack timers into no play zones? you get no passive isk anyways since that is gone and either way if they play pubs all day then the no go timers still get shield or just get a token aussie in to play at odd times for the rest of the corp 3. I really cannot see how this solves anything, just makes it more complicated for the same problems to pop up 1a. This is primarily to give people some wiggle room in when their activity takes place, but isn't required. 2. Um because players should have their districts at times people actually play at? Otherwise you get the same crap we've had before? You state that under the assumption that the profit and benefit of owning a district won't be changed. They will.. Also "A Token Aussie" would be incapable of maintaining an entire district by himself, and even if you had a handful of "token aussies" would have limitations on how many districts they can maintain, especially if you stack them on the same time slot. 3. Problems this proposal addresses a. Heavily discourages players from stacking districts on the same time slot b. Heavily discourages players from placing timers in time zones they are not active in c. Prevents very small groups from holding large chunks of land, but allows them to hold a reasonable amount relative to their size d. Avoids the rigid mess that is Static Timers e. Requires people to actually play the game in order to gain benefit from it 1. If the timer is at 8 and you can fuel at 9 which is past 8 how does that work? does it work for the next 8 timer? 2. Why should they? It is there district to do as they please 2a. You stated that its only going to be a few pub games at best - Is that requiring 1 person or 16? 3a. You can stack timers now but cant play them all anyways so it doesnt solve it and if anything they would stack timers when they are on so how do you attack another corp in china tz? you dont so the same problems we have now are in this 3b. Not really you can still do it and get token aussies for example, it doesnt stop it 3c. If the small group is good enough to hold lots of land then they should be able to and not be punished because they are smaller 3d. I like static, it means i can pick and choose which districts to attack 3e. Its requiring ppl to play the game just so they can PC
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4436	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:07:00 - [65] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. If the timer is at 8 and you can fuel at 9 which is past 8 how does that work? does it work for the next 8 timer? 2. Why should they? It is there district to do as they please 2a. You stated that its only going to be a few pub games at best - Is that requiring 1 person or 16? 3a. You can stack timers now but cant play them all anyways so it doesnt solve it and if anything they would stack timers when they are on so how do you attack another corp in china tz? you dont so the same problems we have now are in this 3b. Not really you can still do it and get token aussies for example, it doesnt stop it 3c. If the small group is good enough to hold lots of land then they should be able to and not be punished because they are smaller 3d. I like static, it means i can pick and choose which districts to attack 3e. Its requiring ppl to play the game just so they can PC 1. Again just wiggle room to account for games that start within the window but end after it. Not a required feature, just a thought. 2. And they can move it out if they want, but its going to be a hell of a lot harder to defend if they do so because it doesn't have proper maintenance (thus a larger attack window). So sure, do as you want, but its going to be a lot harder to properly defend. 2a. It would be closer to 8-16 people playing a normal amount within the time frame. 3a. Fuel generated is distributed evenly between all districts within that time. Meaning that if you have 2 districts in the same time slot, you need double the activity in that time slot to maintain it. Additionally because profitability is also tied to maintenance, it would become increasingly less profitable the more you stacked timers. So if a corp wants to make money, it's going to avoid stacking timers and then just hiring ringers to defend it. 3b. It doesn't stop it but it heavily decreases the effect. 3c. We've been over this, small groups will not have an issue maintaining multiple districts if they're placed in their normal play time. This doesn't punish small groups unless they pull shenanigans like stacking timers or sticking them in odd places. 3d. We disagree on something. I'm shocked. 3e. Oh god requiring people to play the game so they can play the game? What was I thinking?! falls over Sorry but you shouldn't just be able to sit back and relax while the profit rolls in and then only show up when someone attacks your **. One should have to actually do something if they want to make money. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 565	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:19:00 - [66] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. If the timer is at 8 and you can fuel at 9 which is past 8 how does that work? does it work for the next 8 timer? 2. Why should they? It is there district to do as they please 2a. You stated that its only going to be a few pub games at best - Is that requiring 1 person or 16? 3a. You can stack timers now but cant play them all anyways so it doesnt solve it and if anything they would stack timers when they are on so how do you attack another corp in china tz? you dont so the same problems we have now are in this 3b. Not really you can still do it and get token aussies for example, it doesnt stop it 3c. If the small group is good enough to hold lots of land then they should be able to and not be punished because they are smaller 3d. I like static, it means i can pick and choose which districts to attack 3e. Its requiring ppl to play the game just so they can PC 1. Again just wiggle room to account for games that start within the window but end after it. Not a required feature, just a thought. 2. And they can move it out if they want, but its going to be a hell of a lot harder to defend if they do so because it doesn't have proper maintenance (thus a larger attack window). So sure, do as you want, but its going to be a lot harder to properly defend. 2a. It would be closer to 8-16 people playing a normal amount within the time frame. 3a. Fuel generated is distributed evenly between all districts within that time. Meaning that if you have 2 districts in the same time slot, you need double the activity in that time slot to maintain it. Additionally because profitability is also tied to maintenance, it would become increasingly less profitable the more you stacked timers. So if a corp wants to make money, it's going to avoid stacking timers and then just hiring ringers to defend it. 3b. It doesn't stop it but it heavily decreases the effect. 3c. We've been over this, small groups will not have an issue maintaining multiple districts if they're placed in their normal play time. This doesn't punish small groups unless they pull shenanigans like stacking timers or sticking them in odd places. 3d. We disagree on something. I'm shocked. 3e. Oh god requiring people to play the game so they can play the game? What was I thinking?! falls over Sorry but you shouldn't just be able to sit back and relax while the profit rolls in and then only show up when someone attacks your **. One should have to actually do something if they want to make money. 2. 8-16 so if you have 5 districts you need 40ppl on playing for fuel? people have lives and ** to do 3a. So 8ppl on but 5 districts stacked so you would have to 5times the fuel so instead of 40ppl you need 200ppl, i better get the chinese im sure they could spare a few 3b. Not if you have enough aussies 3c. They will now needing 200ppl because they want timers close to each other 3d. Current system aint that bad 3e. I can AFK in EVE and make money or press a button and make billions - If i want to get on and play 1 PC like i can do now i should be able to do it - What happens in EVE with towers, you group up hit it and 24hrs later do it again why cant i do that with a district like i do now?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4442	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:30:00 - [67] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 2. 8-16 so if you have 5 districts you need 40ppl on playing for fuel? people have lives and **** to do 3a. So 8ppl on but 5 districts stacked so you would have to 5times the fuel so instead of 40ppl you need 200ppl, i better get the chinese im sure they could spare a few 3b. Not if you have enough aussies 3c. They will now needing 200ppl because they want timers close to each other 3d. Current system aint that bad 3e. I can AFK in EVE and make money or press a button and make billions - If i want to get on and play 1 PC like i can do now i should be able to do it - What happens in EVE with towers, you group up hit it and 24hrs later do it again why cant i do that with a district like i do now? 2. Only if all of the districts are stacked at the same time. If you have 4 districts, timers set back to back, 8-16 people could play a reasonable amount of time over the course of 4 hours, and meet the quota. If you put all 4 timers on the same time slot, then it would take 4 * (8-16) so 32-64 people. The point is....don't stack timers on the same time slot unless you have a ton of people to maintain it. Spread them out...and it's perfectly reasonable. 3a. Sure, feel free to bring large amounts of people into your corporation to help you defend your PC. Is this a bad thing? 3b. Sure, then you'll be a mostly Australian corp ;) 3c. Only if they stack their timers. If they can commit to 4 districts in PC spread out over 4 hours, surely they can play the game over those 4 hours. 3d. lol let it go on record that Sparky thinks the system that ultimately came out of the cheesiness of the Blue Waffle's collective rectum "Aint that bad". I think my work here is done. 3e. Further evidence that you don't really care about what works best overall, rather what works best for your personal preference of play. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 565	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:51:00 - [68] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 2. 8-16 so if you have 5 districts you need 40ppl on playing for fuel? people have lives and **** to do 3a. So 8ppl on but 5 districts stacked so you would have to 5times the fuel so instead of 40ppl you need 200ppl, i better get the chinese im sure they could spare a few 3b. Not if you have enough aussies 3c. They will now needing 200ppl because they want timers close to each other 3d. Current system aint that bad 3e. I can AFK in EVE and make money or press a button and make billions - If i want to get on and play 1 PC like i can do now i should be able to do it - What happens in EVE with towers, you group up hit it and 24hrs later do it again why cant i do that with a district like i do now? 2. Only if all of the districts are stacked at the same time. If you have 4 districts, timers set back to back, 8-16 people could play a reasonable amount of time over the course of 4 hours, and meet the quota. If you put all 4 timers on the same time slot, then it would take 4 * (8-16) so 32-64 people. The point is....don't stack timers on the same time slot unless you have a ton of people to maintain it. Spread them out...and it's perfectly reasonable. 3a. Sure, feel free to bring large amounts of people into your corporation to help you defend your PC. Is this a bad thing? 3b. Sure, then you'll be a mostly Australian corp ;) 3c. Only if they stack their timers. If they can commit to 4 districts in PC spread out over 4 hours, surely they can play the game over those 4 hours. 3d. lol let it go on record that Sparky thinks the system that ultimately came out of the cheesiness of the Blue Waffle's collective rectum "Aint that bad". I think my work here is done. 3e. Further evidence that you don't really care about what works best overall, rather what works best for your personal preference of play. 2/3abc - Going round in circles currently 3d. You mean fighting anfd holding land is a bad thing? EON ruled because they were the best and no one would take the war to them and they won 3 wars back to back champions and the only reason they dropped is because of GTA5 - Are you really saying that you want no skilled corps to be on top but those with most members who have a large corp and can play pubs lots of times? 3e. I prefer the best corp/alliance to rule MH with skill/teamwork and tactics not some BS shield and playing pubs all day to reduce the timer 4. PC should be this - 2 teams fight, 1 wins and 1 loses and that is it
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4442	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:57:00 - [69] - Quote Oh Sparky, at least you're consistent in your irrationality and inability to actually read and fully comprehend what people say before vomiting out your opinion. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
ZymposieR Rusty Dead Man's Game RUST415 15	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:07:00 - [70] - Quote Timers should be spread out acording to number of active players across the galaxy. This way we get eu, us, and Asia planets and districts close to eachoter. Timers should be fixed and open for something like 2 - 6 hours, depending on how many districts an Corp holdes. Maby also numbers og active players and warbarge can affect this. .. Raiding should be open for anew even longer time but max player count should be like 4-8... Maby the defender should be allowed more players than the attacking raider...

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 750	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:08:00 - [71] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: PC is a sandbox - stop trying to violate it. You've done enough damage with the removal of passive ISK without a decent replacement. The notion "it's a sandbox" is irrelevant if it doesn't also offer compelling gameplay. This is not a valuable argument. "Compelling Gameplay" in the context of PC might be better defined as " a gamemode that isn't identical to a pub mode". FACT: If a corp can't field a team that can compete at the level successful PC corps do then what time the battle happens is irrelevant, except in cases of unworthy combatants looking for targets they don't have to actually fight. Resetting timers, redistributing availability windows or other fradulent "fixes" won't matter when the actual PC combat is still 16v16 and one side isn't up to par with their competition. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 567	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:12:00 - [72] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Oh Sparky, at least you're consistent in your irrationality and inability to actually read and fully comprehend what people say before vomiting out your opinion. 1. So you have stopped debating and trying to convince me that we should all have 500ppl playing at all times just to get a magic shield to refuel - dont you believe in your idea?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4442	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:19:00 - [73] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Oh Sparky, at least you're consistent in your irrationality and inability to actually read and fully comprehend what people say before vomiting out your opinion. 1. So you have stopped debating and trying to convince me that we should all have 500ppl playing at all times just to get a magic shield to refuel - dont you believe in your idea? No I'm saying that I've explained it to you multiple times and you clearly don't understand it. If you really think I think 500 people should be playing at all times, then you've missed the point completely. And to be honest I have better things to do with my time than try to explain this to you. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 750	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:22:00 - [74] - Quote And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 573	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:35:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we want to talk about District Timers, in particular, the not-so-much-intended practice of safeguarding Districts into difficult timezones. There are a few ideas already on the table, not a complete list and I expect Kain Spero to show up pretty much instantly. Methods to reset, if we go that way A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings B) Redistribute - all Timers will be reset and fixed in a ratio that aligns with average PCU C) Reset and allow +-X timers around the default District Timer D) Reset and reduce the available option for Timers E) Reset and allow incremental jumps from the default Timer, rising exponentially in ISK cost per 30 minutes. I will add more. Please discuss. I vote no to a-d. E is the best idea of the lot but it seems like you didn't put much thought into it. Molon Labe CEO
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4299	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:36:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings Would this mean changing up the timers but not allowing any within X hours of downtime or something similar? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Roman837 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 778	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:39:00 - [77] - Quote End of discussion is this. Allow people to put timers where never they want to. But give the attackers an option to attack 2 or 3 hours left or right of the defenders chosen timer. Done. Districts don't necessarily need to produce isk. But make them stock pile clones to a corporation storage. Make that hold up to 1000 So when my districts are full my corp then can stock pile an additional 1000. So we can either attack with or use to reinforce without taking clones from our districts. This would help teams that get removed to get back in. Done and done. Your welcome CCP. Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16709	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:41:00 - [78] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Sounds ******* boring. Fought a generic battle. Called it raiding. Achieved nothing that any other attack at any other time would have achieved. Called it raiding. A raid is a rapid "SUPRISE" attack. In Dust you politely register your name on a form in triplicate, ensure the other corporations Public Relations, Financial Officers, and CEO are all aware of your efforts, and invite them to tea afterwards. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Shiyou Hidiyoshi Ancient Exiles. 1224	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:14:00 - [79] - Quote Ratati if you are on, there is a chatroom with maaaany pc leaders in it. Are you willing to join? "I don't always lock threads but when I do, I vigorously masturbat afterwards." - CCP LockingBro
Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Capital Punishment. 389	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:28:00 - [80] - Quote My suggestion: a CORP should be limited in the amount of districts they can hold to their name or garrison so to speak. TIMERS and DISTRICTS How? by [ ACTIVE PLAYER ] count in a time period, say your corp averages 16 active players in a 3 hour period say 6:00 - 9:00 EVE time, then you can have ONE district in any of those timers, say you have 32 active players in that same time frame, then you can have TWO. Say your corp being quite large averages 16 active players in another time period, then you can have another district timed on that period. Number of active players and time period wedges mentioned is arbitrary, CCP could gauge the numbers more carefully, 4 hour periods or 6 active players, etc. In this way a CORP or ALLIANCE can't farm all the land in space and we could start proposing some good incentives for holding land ( PC rewards ) This proposal not only limits the district count a corp can hold, it also limits its battle timers, while some might see 'convenient' to set a timer to unpopular hours, it hurts the game as a whole. This way a Corp is forced to set a timer in a period it is by nature active in (as determined by their active players) RAIDS If a corp has sensible timers by nature, you can open interaction for 'Raid' attacks initiated on the same day, say a 30 minutes notice that doesn't conquer the district, but instead just plunders resources (maybe stealing part of the cool reward the holder would've gotten) or weaken defenses. By this method if you have a timer open on your prime time, you should have players to back up your defense. A move to conquer could still need a 24h notice though. I picture a way of setting to Raid or Conquer when setting up an attack. ACTIVE PLAYERS Now, I mention the word ACTIVE player around fairly often, this is highly important for this particular proposal to work, this term ties into the PC - Minimum Attack Threshold thread as well. Taking from that, I would suggest that an ACTIVE PLAYER be one that as x daily missions in the corp's name or alternatively it could be a fixed number of WPs accrued in a time period, a director should be able to see a corp's activity graph in a management screen and be able to set district timers or initiate conquer attacks only in time frames where there's activity. SELF LOCKING DISTRICTS By this method to initiate an attack a corp needs an ACTIVE PLAYERS count on the timer, while possible to do this with alts, I'm hoping that the grind required to keep a player marked as 'active' is enough deterrent to lock with an alt corp. Alliance corps should not be able to attack friendly districts without one or the other leaving. Friendly non-allied corps could still lock, but this method is not foolproof, still, better than current. NOTES This method has some caveats, if you don't have the active player count you can't attack on fringe timers (to your corp) unless you're ringing, but say, EURO corps can raid AMERICAN corps all they want if even if they can't keep the district if not enough active players on the timers. Your corp needs to keep the average active player count or risk loosing your district due to inactivity. www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 751	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:05:00 - [81] - Quote True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Sounds ******* boring. Fought a generic battle. Called it raiding. Achieved nothing that any other attack at any other time would have achieved. Called it raiding. A raid is a rapid "SUPRISE" attack. In Dust you politely register your name on a form in triplicate, ensure the other corporations Public Relations, Financial Officers, and CEO are all aware of your efforts, and invite them to tea afterwards. Sure it sounds boring. Thing is, it exists. You and 5 of your friends want to "raid"? Send those clones. My point in it is that its possible, as proven by all the corps and players currently PC active who are doing exactly as I describe. PC battles are identical to pub skirm in structure. That being the case doesn't warrant a major overhaul of timers to correct, it warrants an overhaul of the PC combat mechanics/mode style itself. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3474	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:21:00 - [82] - Quote True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Sounds ******* boring. Fought a generic battle. Called it raiding. Achieved nothing that any other attack at any other time would have achieved. Called it raiding. A raid is a rapid "SUPRISE" attack. In Dust you politely register your name on a form in triplicate, ensure the other corporations Public Relations, Financial Officers, and CEO are all aware of your efforts, and invite them to tea afterwards. Its the Amarr way :P. back on topic i agree with True Raids need a surprise element to it, it needs to be a OH GOD FIND ANYONE RIGHT NOW! i think how RnK operate in EvE is a very good example of smaller corps sticking it to the bigger ones, sure the bigger corps have power the manpower for huge ops, but that doesn't stop RnK for wreaking face. A simlier system not matter what form it takes needs to be in place in PC. overall man power is required to hold space and pull in the big bucks, but small man corps that are elite can still do "raids" and stick it to the man and make a good amount of cash in the mean time. from my experience in other PvP games. Raids tend to explode into big events quite often. a big corp expecting a quite night could suddenly find it self having to defend it self from number of small pirate corps raiding leading to a lot of enjoy fights all around that took no "pre arranging". another key thing is, players should be so busy in PC that they dont really need to pub matches anymore, much like how 0.0 peeps dont really fly to empire (unless its an alt) You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2402	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:36:00 - [83] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Sounds ***** boring. Fought a generic battle. Called it raiding. Achieved nothing that any other attack at any other time would have achieved. Called it raiding. A raid is a rapid "SUPRISE" attack. In Dust you politely register your name on a form in triplicate, ensure the other corporations Public Relations, Financial Officers, and CEO are all aware of your efforts, and invite them to tea afterwards. Sure it sounds boring. Thing is, it exists. You and 5 of your friends want to "raid"? Send those clones.** My point in it is that its possible, as proven by all the corps and players currently PC active who are doing exactly as I describe. PC battles are identical to pub skirm in structure. That being the case doesn't warrant a major overhaul of timers to correct, it warrants an overhaul of the PC combat mechanics/mode style itself. So raiding exists for people that already play PC or anyone that wants to pay for a clone pack just so they can have a chance at PC payouts? Sounds oh so inviting and appealing, I'ma get right to it! Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 751	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:40:00 - [84] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Sounds ***** boring. Fought a generic battle. Called it raiding. Achieved nothing that any other attack at any other time would have achieved. Called it raiding. A raid is a rapid "SUPRISE" attack. In Dust you politely register your name on a form in triplicate, ensure the other corporations Public Relations, Financial Officers, and CEO are all aware of your efforts, and invite them to tea afterwards. Sure it sounds boring. Thing is, it exists. You and 5 of your friends want to "raid"? Send those clones.** My point in it is that its possible, as proven by all the corps and players currently PC active who are doing exactly as I describe. PC battles are identical to pub skirm in structure. That being the case doesn't warrant a major overhaul of timers to correct, it warrants an overhaul of the PC combat mechanics/mode style itself. So raiding exists for people that already play PC or anyone that wants to pay for a clone pack just so they can have a chance at PC payouts? Sounds oh so inviting and appealing, I'ma get right to it! Awesome! "Come and knock on our door...We'll be waiting for you....." Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7918	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:47:00 - [85] - Quote Is there anything wrong with allowing enemy entities to initiate an attack when they choose and adding 12 - 36 hours at random to when the attack actually takes place? This is similar to how it's done with reinforcement timers in Eve Online but the defender usually has a bit more control. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5483	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:53:00 - [86] - Quote With regards to raiding: I definitely agree that is the area to work on low-warning more-flexible battles, and something I really want to see. Locking down timers for capture battles is a quick change, and allows us to move on into developing features like that with more flexibility. If we get hung up on a very complicated timer system for capture battles with moving timers and windows and crud, I think it'd delay CCP's ability to fix other issues with PC or get more PC content out. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 132	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:27:00 - [87] - Quote You should create an option in corporation managment or with the corporation warbarge. It would allow a CEO or Director to define a time zone for the districts (euro, US or asia). Depending on your time zone, you get a different set of timers, with some crossing. Like US districts at 22 Eve and EU districts at 00 Eve. Thanks to your datas, you can also give a set of timers based on which server is more often used by the players of a given corp. Or, I don't know if that's possible, but you could use stats about the average time where players are connected in a corporation. There are people playing all over the day of course, but in general, there is a "spike point" where players are more connected. But what I'm truly afraid of is the consequences of any timer changes on summer and winter time. Currently if I put a timer at 22h (Eve), I'll have a fight beetween 23h and midnight (Paris). But if timers are messed up, and once summer timers are applied, my 22h (Eve) would be placed beetween midnight and 01H (Paris). As for the others proposition CCP has made so far. I don't find anything good, not to say irrelevant... Prima Gallicus diplomat Eve 21 day Trial
Avallo Kantor SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 430	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:28:00 - [88] - Quote A relatively low-cost idea to promote District Timers in a corps Prime Time + incentive: During a Districts Vulnerable Period for each district, add a small bonus payout to each corp member in ISK. In addition to this small bonus, the corp gets a "free" tax bonus as well. Example: A player plays during his corp's District Timer Period. (DTP) vs normal hours: Normal Hours: Player Makes 100% ISK, Corp makes 0% 'tax-free' income DTP Hours: Player Makes 105% ISK, Corp makes 10% 'tax-free' income In this way, a corp that can hold Districts will be able to make more money by having their DTP during their corp's prime time hours. Corps that can hold multiple districts (and then stack the DTP) can earn even more money in this fashion from the stacking bonuses. Players are happy to fight and be online during a DTP, especially if it's at a good time for them. Meanwhile, corps that hold crappy DTPs will not be able to reap these bonuses. In this way you motivate players to be active in a District holding corp, when that district is vulnerable. Enhancements to base idea: - Allow Corps to set larger (not smaller) DTP periods, for example, extend a DTP to 2 or 3 hours. (Not too extreme though) -Have the bonus only apply / apply more when a player is fighting along side OTHER CORP MEMBERS. I do not know how complicated this would be, so I added it as an enhancement to the idea instead of being part of the base concept. Basically: -1 player solo: 0 bonus -2 corp member squad: 10% of max bonus -3 corp member squad: 30% of max bonus -4 corp member squad: 50% of max bonus -5 corp member squad: 75% of max bonus -6 corp member squad: 100% of max bonus As I feel the bonus should only apply if the corp is working together, and playing together, otherwise it's just a bonus for having a tag under your name. This idea also works well with your proposed Income changes, as it will provide a "de-facto" bonus to PC battles on the defensive, allowing players to have a slight income edge on the defense, one which can be equally counteracted by more "risky" attackers who chose to attack during their own districts DTP.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4304	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:35:00 - [89] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: With regards to raiding: I definitely agree that is the area to work on low-warning more-flexible battles, and something I really want to see. Locking down timers for capture battles is a quick change, and allows us to move on into developing features like that with more flexibility. If we get hung up on a very complicated timer system for capture battles with moving timers and windows and crud, I think it'd delay CCP's ability to fix other issues with PC or get more PC content out. There was a meeting of minds today of pretty much every major leader in Planetary Conquest happened to be there. They agree that PC needs to be addressed, but the opinion was unanimous that region locking timers is a bad idea. Some of those in attendance: Arirana, Badgerr Ragerr, dy5t0pia, Evan Gotabor, Ghostt Shadoww, Gilgamesh iBUN, Hawkin Pete, Kalante Schiffer, Kane Spero, Kardia Scorpio, Maylar Snow, Mr Machine Guns, Noktix Luxifer, Poncho Polous, Roman837, saxonmish, Shepherd Grey, Shiyou Hidiyoshi, Silver Strike44, SoTa PoP, TheD1CK, Viktor Hadah, xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx, Zaria MinDeir, Ydubbs81 RND, and others. Corps big and small, casual and elite, people that combined have 1,000s of hours of experience having to deal with Planetary Conquest and it's faults and would like nothing more than to see it flourish. These folks currently involved in planetary conquest do want to see new people be brought into the system and many have even been trying to even give districts away but struggle to find interested parties. Some don't have districts right now but would like to have their names on the map. There is excitement about coming changes to planetary conquest but they don't want to see mechanics like fixed timers potentially mess up that recovery. For these folks goals like owning a planet are something to aspire to and for many geography and placement really does matter. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 361	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:37:00 - [90] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Kain Spero wrote: As a few people have suggested, windows of attack in the 2-4 hour range seem to make a lot more sense than the specific 1 hour timer set-up that we have now. This is a hugely exclusionary system that would greatly reduce the number of corps that could hold a district in PC. Because it multiplies the amount of time your corp has to be able to field full teams to be able to be viable, and forces PC organizers to block out their entire evening to defend a single district. That's why people would and should form alliances. In a 3-4 hours attack window people don't necessarily have to be online: if you have a medium-size corporation there's always 16 players to field: it will simply stop people from holding too much land when they actually can't defend it. the expanding timer is a good thing, but hell it "force" people to play, again. And when you "force" someone to play..well, we all already know what happened to Cronos, right? We all simply didn't want to play PC anymore, we just had enough of playing at 4 in the morning and then again defending in the same afternoon against someone else. With a larger attack window, instead, you already know you can have 1 or 2 districts at best, you just need an alliance if you actually want more than 1 district, all the others will be free for other corporations/alliances, hence the planetary conquest is revitalized. Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn

Zene Ren Hired Ghost 101	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:10:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we want to talk about District Timers, in particular, the not-so-much-intended practice of safeguarding Districts into difficult timezones. There are a few ideas already on the table, not a complete list and I expect Kain Spero to show up pretty much instantly. Methods to reset, if we go that way A) Randomize - all Timers will be reset to a random TZ within the allowed Begin and End settings B) Redistribute - all Timers will be reset and fixed in a ratio that aligns with average PCU C) Reset and allow +-X timers around the default District Timer D) Reset and reduce the available option for Timers E) Reset and allow incremental jumps from the default Timer, rising exponentially in ISK cost per 30 minutes. I will add more. Please discuss. can we please just remove all timers from PC and give more tools for multi time zone alliances to defend districts pls? seriously only no timers IMO will heal this PC stagnation, invigorate new corps to try PCs, invigorated to create multi time zones communities and let us at last measure the real power of corps or corporate/alliance leadership that would also IMO just demand from every corp to take as many newbie players to join under their wings and care for those new players as it would really improve corp power output later on and with those new SP weekly caps it wont take that long make PC a sandbox at last, where people and their ability to socialize build a community leads to reign and supreme victory in new eden planetary conquest ;) every artificial limitation (aka timers for attack or defense) beside your ability to buy clones set up team of at least 16 man and deploy warbarges should be removed from PC for now untill we will have bigger eve dust connection i really think this and only this would really measure the strenght of corporations and alliances (multi timezone would be a must!) as a last note i only will add every artificial limitation aka timers is only preventing a power struggle that we could have in the game play IMO, limiting participation, creating a stale environment where small corps can hold more ground that they should (setting timers to prevent others from attacking the land that you have no real man power to defend is not a skill in the gun game type of game that dust 514 should be IMO sorry) beside that introduce raiding districts for those "skilled" smaller corps so that they can earn the income and pillage smth pillaged district should not have IMO 24h warning only 2 to 3 hours and should lock the district from production for a weak (debatable period) those two mechanics plus added later on things from CCP should really invigorate and spice up PC battles IMO despite the drawbacks the positive will out weight the negative in the grand scheme of things thus making PC more competitive and demanding please add back corp battles as well with this, standard income pub brawls for practice for newer corps do not let those whining people in smaller corps dictate the game rules set in stone for the rest it should always be socializing and creating bigger corps then alliances and communities within the game setting the power struggle not some barriers like in this case timers on districts nothing more nothing less cheers Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15282	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:12:00 - [92] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: With regards to raiding: I definitely agree that is the area to work on low-warning more-flexible battles, and something I really want to see. Locking down timers for capture battles is a quick change, and allows us to move on into developing features like that with more flexibility. If we get hung up on a very complicated timer system for capture battles with moving timers and windows and crud, I think it'd delay CCP's ability to fix other issues with PC or get more PC content out. There was a meeting of minds today of pretty much every major leader in Planetary Conquest happened to be there. They agree that PC needs to be addressed, but the opinion was unanimous that region locking timers is a bad idea. Some of those in attendance: Arirana, Badgerr Ragerr, dy5t0pia, Evan Gotabor, Ghostt Shadoww, Gilgamesh iBUN, Hawkin Pete, Kalante Schiffer, Kane Spero, Kardia Scorpio, Maylar Snow, Mr Machine Guns, Noktix Luxifer, Poncho Polous, Roman837, saxonmish, Shepherd Grey, Shiyou Hidiyoshi, Silver Strike44, SoTa PoP, TheD1CK, Viktor Hadah, xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx, Zaria MinDeir, Ydubbs81 RND, and others. Corps big and small, casual and elite, people that combined have 1,000s of hours of experience having to deal with Planetary Conquest and it's faults and would like nothing more than to see it flourish. These folks currently involved in planetary conquest do want to see new people be brought into the system and many have even been trying to even give districts away but struggle to find interested parties. Some don't have districts right now but would like to have their names on the map. There is excitement about coming changes to planetary conquest but they don't want to see mechanics like fixed timers potentially mess up that recovery. For these folks goals like owning a planet are something to aspire to and for many geography and placement really does matter. The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem I'm kidding, but you know "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 362	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:44:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem There has never been such a "mafia" problem. Never. Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4305	Posted - 2015.01.21 02:58:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem I'm kidding, but you know Well we have a ready gang of players who know the game intimately and are well connected on top of that in that channel and it seems ignoring their knowledge about Planetary Conquest, the problems they've had to go through, and discounting their experience doesn't seem to make much sense. They DO think there are problems with PC and no they don't think timers are perfect. Option (E) was the most popular by far, but region locking was universally thought of as a stupid idea. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 746	Posted - 2015.01.21 04:25:00 - [95] - Quote Get rid of timers all together. Let the attackers decide when they want to launch their attack. Give the attackers a window to choose their attack, maybe 3-9 hours from the time they choose to attack to give the defenders some warning. This is far more realistic, and far more sandbox friendly. This prevents anyone from making their districts hard to attack. This promotes recruiting, and allying with corps in other time zones to help keep troop counts high for possible attacks.
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1047	Posted - 2015.01.21 06:05:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: With regards to raiding: I definitely agree that is the area to work on low-warning more-flexible battles, and something I really want to see. Locking down timers for capture battles is a quick change, and allows us to move on into developing features like that with more flexibility. If we get hung up on a very complicated timer system for capture battles with moving timers and windows and crud, I think it'd delay CCP's ability to fix other issues with PC or get more PC content out. There was a meeting of minds today of pretty much every major leader in Planetary Conquest happened to be there. They agree that PC needs to be addressed, but the opinion was unanimous that region locking timers is a bad idea. Some of those in attendance: Arirana, Badgerr Ragerr, dy5t0pia, Evan Gotabor, Ghostt Shadoww, Gilgamesh iBUN, Hawkin Pete, Kalante Schiffer, Kane Spero, Kardia Scorpio, Maylar Snow, Mr Machine Guns, Noktix Luxifer, Poncho Polous, Roman837, saxonmish, Shepherd Grey, Shiyou Hidiyoshi, Silver Strike44, SoTa PoP, TheD1CK, Viktor Hadah, xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx, Zaria MinDeir, Ydubbs81 RND, and others. Corps big and small, casual and elite, people that combined have 1,000s of hours of experience having to deal with Planetary Conquest and it's faults and would like nothing more than to see it flourish. These folks currently involved in planetary conquest do want to see new people be brought into the system and many have even been trying to even give districts away but struggle to find interested parties. Some don't have districts right now but would like to have their names on the map. There is excitement about coming changes to planetary conquest but they don't want to see mechanics like fixed timers potentially mess up that recovery. For these folks goals like owning a planet are something to aspire to and for many geography and placement really does matter. The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem I'm kidding, but you know Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15305	Posted - 2015.01.21 07:56:00 - [97] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 132	Posted - 2015.01.21 08:13:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: With regards to raiding: I definitely agree that is the area to work on low-warning more-flexible battles, and something I really want to see. Locking down timers for capture battles is a quick change, and allows us to move on into developing features like that with more flexibility. If we get hung up on a very complicated timer system for capture battles with moving timers and windows and crud, I think it'd delay CCP's ability to fix other issues with PC or get more PC content out. There was a meeting of minds today of pretty much every major leader in Planetary Conquest happened to be there. They agree that PC needs to be addressed, but the opinion was unanimous that region locking timers is a bad idea. Some of those in attendance: Arirana, Badgerr Ragerr, dy5t0pia, Evan Gotabor, Ghostt Shadoww, Gilgamesh iBUN, Hawkin Pete, Kalante Schiffer, Kane Spero, Kardia Scorpio, Maylar Snow, Mr Machine Guns, Noktix Luxifer, Poncho Polous, Roman837, saxonmish, Shepherd Grey, Shiyou Hidiyoshi, Silver Strike44, SoTa PoP, TheD1CK, Viktor Hadah, xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx, Zaria MinDeir, Ydubbs81 RND, and others. Corps big and small, casual and elite, people that combined have 1,000s of hours of experience having to deal with Planetary Conquest and it's faults and would like nothing more than to see it flourish. These folks currently involved in planetary conquest do want to see new people be brought into the system and many have even been trying to even give districts away but struggle to find interested parties. Some don't have districts right now but would like to have their names on the map. There is excitement about coming changes to planetary conquest but they don't want to see mechanics like fixed timers potentially mess up that recovery. For these folks goals like owning a planet are something to aspire to and for many geography and placement really does matter. The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem I'm kidding, but you know I agree that for the moment, every proposition I have read from CCP is completly wrong. However I still wonder why I got to that "reunion" instead of going to bed . I think the better way would be to introduce a new parameter in corp managment or in corp warbarge once it will be there. This parameter would allow a corp to choose 1 set of timer (US, EU, AS) which would be calculated on a specific time zone. As an exemple, a EU corp would have timers spreading beetween 18h and midnight, US would be beetween 22 and 04 and I don't know the best timer for asian corporations (outside 13 of course). It would help to put down some timers like 06 or 08. Prima Gallicus diplomat Eve 21 day Trial
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 320	Posted - 2015.01.21 08:26:00 - [99] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. You do know that most PC players are scrubs and will only do stuff that benefit them. The same applies for a majority of the playerbase. Its fine that you're molding the game in accordance to community feedback but remember you're only making this game better for the usual playerbase and not new players. Proud member of Glitched Connection "Only idiots start a fight they can't win" - Sora (No Game No Life)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15305	Posted - 2015.01.21 08:47:00 - [100] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3479	Posted - 2015.01.21 08:55:00 - [101] - Quote The point he is badly making is you guys won't agree to anything that puts you at a disadvantage or outright screw over the current power base. Sure you guys can point out problems but everybody allready knows what those are. was/is a problem in EVE too. That vested intrests scream blue bloody murder the moment the Devs try and make the game better but upsets the power balance You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7921	Posted - 2015.01.21 09:05:00 - [102] - Quote How's about amount of districts owned affects the deviation in timer..? If you own 'x' districts your timer deviation (+/- whatever you want it set at) increases..? This way corporations/alliances are free to own as many districts as they can feasibly control but in the same sense they have less control on when those districts can be attacked? EXAMPLES: Corp A owns five (5) districts and sets their timer for 12:00 Eve Time. Because of the small amount of districts owned, their timers are deviated by +/- one (1) hour, able to be attacked between 11:00 - 13:00. Corp B owns fifteen (15) districts and sets their timer for 12:00 Eve Time. Because of the larger amount of districts - and arguably more people to cover them - their timers are deviated by +/- three (3) hours, able to be attacked between 09:00 - 15:00. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 132	Posted - 2015.01.21 09:11:00 - [103] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. Better and better, now we must adapt our very own corporations to your ideas... Leaving us with the 2 choices : calling ringers or renounce to play PC at all... Does the idea of being part of a corporation, of a community must be sacrificed to play PC ? Locked timers WOULD be a good idea if the community was split on separated servers that respect their primary time zone. We play international here... Focus first on removing fake corporations and compare the evolution of the timers. Before and after. Prima Gallicus diplomat Eve 21 day Trial
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2254	Posted - 2015.01.21 09:47:00 - [104] - Quote Ok, stepping into the lions den here..... I don't normally speak about PC as it's not my area of expertise in the game and I'm not the greatest fan of it to be honest as the other CPM will attest to but Rattati has highlighted my main problem with it so what the hell.. Empire building is fine, no problem with that. Organised competitive battles, great, more of them please. Mud slinging between Corps to make the battles a bit more spicy, awesome. Elitist cliques of players stifling competition and using poorly thought game mechanics to control a section of the game that only a small minority even play, while using up a lot of Dev time to correct said problems that only that minority will even know about... that I have a real problem with. Don't worry, Rattati is a huge fan of PC and the end game it represents for Dust 514 so it's not going anywhere. But PC's main problem is that the bar is too high for most to enter and once there corps are 'dug in like an Alabama tick' to quote Predetor. PC should be total war. Enemies attacking you left and right and at times that aren't exclusively convenient to you. You want to defend your territory? Then recruit more players to defend your interests around the clock, not just the top 16 players in your corp EVERY TIME. It's all just too agreeable right now, too many interests are best served by not actually fighting. It should be total carnage, smaller corps able to mount raids with no notice, testing the big boys ability to rustle up a defence at the drop of a hat. Larger corps planning a massive offensive in secret ABLE to attack at a time when their resources can be used to best effect. You want to defend against such an onslaught? Then use spies to find out when it's coming and be prepared and not cowardly hide behind a 'timer' as your main defence. That was the original hope for PC. It can still be all that but frankly an easier course and self interest will always trump uncertainty and risk. And that's why I find PC boring. Nothing happens that hasn't already been agreed on, either explicitly by one to one agreement or implicitly with the use of timers. Dull, dull, dull. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
xAckie Ghost. Mob 477	Posted - 2015.01.21 10:06:00 - [105] - Quote I would like to see 24/7 attacks on a district. I realise this is not feasible due to low play count and realistic time zones etc. what you could do is make the attack window for a district 8 /10/ 12 hours. Take your pick Rat. That way a corp couldn't stack timers as they are open to attack in a broad time window. So staggering timers won't help. If a corp at the moment has timers at 17/18/19 gmt etc they can go into battle back to back. And this allows a corp that can only field 16 or 10 players or less defeat stickers without any real attrition. With a broad attack window.: coalitions can attack these 3 districts at say 1700 or even 2200 when the broad 8 hour timer for the corp is open. And the defending corp can then/ has to decide which district the corp wants to defend/ keep. If districts allow different team sizes such as 8 or 12 you can alter the broad attack window to a smaller band of hours. This would match with rewards for owning the district being less. though realise this can be gamed. Pc is such a chore due to the launch/ 24 hour wait/ wait, organise, fight / lock nature. It needs to become more fluid.
xAckie Ghost. Mob 477	Posted - 2015.01.21 10:07:00 - [106] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Elitist cliques of players stifling competition and using poorly thought game mechanics to control a section of the game that only a small minority even play, while using up a lot of Dev time to correct said problems that only that minority will even know about... that I have a real problem with. god forbid Dust gets closer to Eve's DNA
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6784	Posted - 2015.01.21 11:10:00 - [107] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. Yes, because recruitment is just a matter of wishing for more players. A short time later a full team of players magically appears in your corp's application inbox.../s It's disappointing that PC 2.0 will continue to lockout any corporation that doesn't boast a couple hundred members, minimum. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3479	Posted - 2015.01.21 11:11:00 - [108] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Ok, stepping into the lions den here..... I don't normally speak about PC as it's not my area of expertise in the game and I'm not the greatest fan of it to be honest as the other CPM will attest to but Rattati has highlighted my main problem with it so what the hell.. Empire building is fine, no problem with that. Organised competitive battles, great, more of them please. Mud slinging between Corps to make the battles a bit more spicy, awesome. Elitist cliques of players stifling competition and using poorly thought game mechanics to control a section of the game that only a small minority even play, while using up a lot of Dev time to correct said problems that only that minority will even know about... that I have a real problem with. Don't worry, Rattati is a huge fan of PC and the end game it represents for Dust 514 so it's not going anywhere. But PC's main problem is that the bar is too high for most to enter and once there corps are 'dug in like an Alabama tick' to quote Predetor. PC should be total war. Enemies attacking you left and right and at times that aren't exclusively convenient to you. You want to defend your territory? Then recruit more players to defend your interests around the clock, not just the top 16 players in your corp EVERY TIME. It's all just too agreeable right now, too many interests are best served by not actually fighting. It should be total carnage, smaller corps able to mount raids with no notice, testing the big boys ability to rustle up a defence at the drop of a hat. Larger corps planning a massive offensive in secret ABLE to attack at a time when their resources can be used to best effect. You want to defend against such an onslaught? Then use spies to find out when it's coming and be prepared and not cowardly hide behind a 'timer' as your main defence. That was the original hope for PC. It can still be all that but frankly an easier course and self interest will always trump uncertainty and risk. And that's why I find PC boring. Nothing happens that hasn't already been agreed on, either explicitly by one to one agreement or implicitly with the use of timers. Dull, dull, dull. This so much this. If u want to hold space 24/7 build a 24/7 corp. This is what everyone wanted from PC. Just please get rod of timers or let us raid just somthing that let's us mount supprise attacks. If i want to do normal game play i would load up FW. PC should be about numbers. Strats scouts and if needed alarm clocks =ƒÿå You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4309	Posted - 2015.01.21 13:05:00 - [109] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. Again, if you think that these planetary conquest players don't think there are problems in the game mode you'd be wrong. They acknowledge that planetary conquest is stagnate, needs change, better less-gameable rewards, it needs battles that are less high stake and more immediate so players other than "the 16" can get a chance, it needs a timer system where attackers and defender can meet in the middle, it needs a logistical revamp so it's not simply whoever has the most districts wins in the end, it needs a timer system that allows organizations to aspire to goals like owning a planet, it needs the lab map removed until it can be optimized, and the list goes on. Some PC players want windows, others want the 1 hour timers, generally people that read through it liked Pokey's proposal etc. Getting this group to come to an agreement on anything (these are people that have been going in a merry go round fighting each other for 2 years in addition to some fresh faces) is usually a trying experience. The players generally thought "region locking was stupid" but they did think that exponentially increasing costs to change your timers was fair. Most are even fine with there being a reset; however, there really isn't an agreement on what timers should be. The opinions vary far and wide, but that doesn't mean they should be discounted when they look at a list of options and can pick out ones that are bad outright. Not every player is a designer. Sometimes the best they can do is look at what's being proposed and identify which options are bad. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 101	Posted - 2015.01.21 13:44:00 - [110] - Quote timers in any form in PC are only hindering game play people that have few hours of play time and want to log in for some PC action are denied that form of fun only because any form of timers if those so called "skilled vets" worry about not being able to hold a district only because there is no timer mechanic, they should just organize better within the game for alliance assistance no one ever said that small corp or even a medium sized corp should be able to hold whole planet for them self, only with timers mechanic it is possible thus making the game stale and PC action on hold for everyone else, this is wrong direction then does more harm because bigger number of people wanting to get into PC is denied with this for the sake of smaller tight knit "skilled vets" that are and will abuse any form of timers and locks mechanic everytime (alts, district hopping, manipulation with attack windows etc.) timers and locking mechanic is wrong at its core and will always make PC stale in any form and any time within multi time zoned game Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding

Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 570	Posted - 2015.01.21 14:07:00 - [111] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Oh Sparky, at least you're consistent in your irrationality and inability to actually read and fully comprehend what people say before vomiting out your opinion. 1. So you have stopped debating and trying to convince me that we should all have 500ppl playing at all times just to get a magic shield to refuel - dont you believe in your idea? No I'm saying that I've explained it to you multiple times and you clearly don't understand it. If you really think I think 500 people should be playing at all times, then you've missed the point completely. And to be honest I have better things to do with my time than try to explain this to you. 1. You mean i found holes in it which you cannot patch up while trying to make PC more complicated and pushing out the smaller corps who are actually good and could hold more land than there corps allows because they have good players who actually win with skill tactics and teamwork
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4311	Posted - 2015.01.21 14:39:00 - [112] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: timers in any form in PC are only hindering game play people that have few hours of play time and want to log in for some PC action are denied that form of fun only because any form of timers if those so called "skilled vets" worry about not being able to hold a district only because there is no timer mechanic, they should just organize better within the game for alliance assistance no one ever said that small corp or even a medium sized corp should be able to hold whole planet for them self, only with timers mechanic it is possible thus making the game stale and PC action on hold for everyone else, this is wrong direction then does more harm because bigger number of people wanting to get into PC is denied with this for the sake of smaller tight knit "skilled vets" that are and will abuse any form of timers and locks mechanic everytime (alts, district hopping, manipulation with attack windows etc.) timers and locking mechanic is wrong at its core and will always make PC stale in any form and any time within multi time zoned game The funny thing is there is a contingent of PC vets that would like nothing more than to go to a completely timerless system. I think the key is to strike a balance between the two extremes of restrictive timers and timerless gameplay. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 15:06:00 - [113] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: timers in any form in PC are only hindering game play people that have few hours of play time and want to log in for some PC action are denied that form of fun only because any form of timers if those so called "skilled vets" worry about not being able to hold a district only because there is no timer mechanic, they should just organize better within the game for alliance assistance no one ever said that small corp or even a medium sized corp should be able to hold whole planet for them self, only with timers mechanic it is possible thus making the game stale and PC action on hold for everyone else, this is wrong direction then does more harm because bigger number of people wanting to get into PC is denied with this for the sake of smaller tight knit "skilled vets" that are and will abuse any form of timers and locks mechanic everytime (alts, district hopping, manipulation with attack windows etc.) timers and locking mechanic is wrong at its core and will always make PC stale in any form and any time within multi time zoned game The funny thing is there is a contingent of PC vets that would like nothing more than to go to a completely timerless system. I think the key is to strike a balance between the two extremes of restrictive timers and timerless gameplay. because it is the only way to do, to not prevent people in participating in PC thus making the mode accessible and active as it should be what we have now is stale isk farm elite club and it will always be like that with timers and what we should have is 90% or 100% of SP eligible people to play PC all the time thus leaving PUBs for newbies and FW for medium advanced SP wise people that it is why people are begging for corp battles back why is it so hard for those elitists vets abusing mechanics of timers to open the game mode for all?!?! everyone will benefit from that, well maybe not all because this 5% that we have now will cry i can not time lock my district because it is mine, because i won it and now it should always be mine, because my real life, because of my other hobbies, because i will lose my progress etc. etc. etc. kids logic they are unable to understand that losing this progress for others and then fighting for it back, this activity is and should always be the dynamic for PC game mode in dust depending on power from your alliance people, numbers wise multi time zone, involved to defend it and not some silly timers mechanic shutting down the fun for other 95% of community Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4311	Posted - 2015.01.21 15:13:00 - [114] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: what we have now is stale isk farm elite club and it will always be like that with timers and what we should have is 90% or 100% of SP eligible people to play PC all the time thus leaving PUBs for newbies and FW for medium advanced SP wise people that it is why people are begging for corp battles back why is it so hard for those elitists vets abusing mechanics of timers to open the game mode for all?!?! If you really think that most players in planetary conquest wouldn't like to see and end to the stagnation and more people in the game mode so folks can choose to be PCing most of the time I have a bridge to sell you. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 15:19:00 - [115] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: what we have now is stale isk farm elite club and it will always be like that with timers and what we should have is 90% or 100% of SP eligible people to play PC all the time thus leaving PUBs for newbies and FW for medium advanced SP wise people that it is why people are begging for corp battles back why is it so hard for those elitists vets abusing mechanics of timers to open the game mode for all?!?! If you really think that most players in planetary conquest wouldn't like to see and end to the stagnation and more people in the game mode so folks can choose to be PCing most of the time I have a bridge to sell you. man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4311	Posted - 2015.01.21 15:28:00 - [116] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3484	Posted - 2015.01.21 15:43:00 - [117] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? put blunt yes. 3 smallish corps in 3 diffrent timezones could also achieve the same effect with little stress. needing numbers means bodies over skill. Which means by its very nature will be more open to the player base. network and alliances are a huge part of EVE and frankly it's not as a big as problem as people make out you create the demand for bodies to cover other timezones they will show up. Ffs the players are their it's just this communty can never be assed to try and speak to communtys that don't speak English. You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15327	Posted - 2015.01.21 15:50:00 - [118] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 15:51:00 - [119] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? the vision is like that because the foundations laid under Eve/dust are like that world wide, one server for all players any other option will make the PC game mode stale with artificial boundaries because we have multi time zone community don't we? they don't need to be massive corporations just inter national, multi time zone alliances, eanlish is pretty common now around the world isn't it? for small tight knit (anti social if i may say) groups there should be an option to RAID if they want to stay small and have good isk payouts and some instant PC action w/o obligations, this should be instant with 10 to 30 mins warning for defending alliance, with some penalty when the RAID is successful to hinder production from district for a time this could've stack more if more raiders want to ride this particular district easy fix for PC and tons of fun for all, newbies have their own plays in pub matches because vets are only playing PC, medium advanced SP guys play FW as a prelude to PC, PC crowd is not locked from their primarily activity by some artificial (stupid IMO) boundaries and the game is on! Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5483	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:14:00 - [120] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem I'm kidding, but you know Well we have a ready gang of players who know the game intimately and are well connected on top of that in that channel and it seems ignoring their knowledge about Planetary Conquest, the problems they've had to go through, and discounting their experience doesn't seem to make much sense. They DO think there are problems with PC and no they don't think timers are perfect. Option (E) was the most popular by far, but region locking was universally thought of as a stupid idea. You have a ready gang of players who know the old model intimately and are occasionally unnecessarily attached to it. FTFY. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1620	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:17:00 - [121] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: With regards to raiding: I definitely agree that is the area to work on low-warning more-flexible battles, and something I really want to see. Locking down timers for capture battles is a quick change, and allows us to move on into developing features like that with more flexibility. If we get hung up on a very complicated timer system for capture battles with moving timers and windows and crud, I think it'd delay CCP's ability to fix other issues with PC or get more PC content out. There was a meeting of minds today of pretty much every major leader in Planetary Conquest happened to be there. They agree that PC needs to be addressed, but the opinion was unanimous that region locking timers is a bad idea. Some of those in attendance: Arirana, Badgerr Ragerr, dy5t0pia, Evan Gotabor, Ghostt Shadoww, Gilgamesh iBUN, Hawkin Pete, Kalante Schiffer, Kane Spero, Kardia Scorpio, Maylar Snow, Mr Machine Guns, Noktix Luxifer, Poncho Polous, Roman837, saxonmish, Shepherd Grey, Shiyou Hidiyoshi, Silver Strike44, SoTa PoP, TheD1CK, Viktor Hadah, xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx, Zaria MinDeir, Ydubbs81 RND, and others. Corps big and small, casual and elite, people that combined have 1,000s of hours of experience having to deal with Planetary Conquest and it's faults and would like nothing more than to see it flourish. These folks currently involved in planetary conquest do want to see new people be brought into the system and many have even been trying to even give districts away but struggle to find interested parties. Some don't have districts right now but would like to have their names on the map. There is excitement about coming changes to planetary conquest but they don't want to see mechanics like fixed timers potentially mess up that recovery. For these folks goals like owning a planet are something to aspire to and for many geography and placement really does matter. The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem I'm kidding, but you know Best CCP response ever lol In our defence that group was much smaller, invite spam and curiosity filled it up I can see your point even if veiled behind humour, but the fact is Those players joined because they care about PC, I'm sure agenda's could be involved But the reason for that discussion was to evaluate your proposal with active PC mercs As a merc with a fraction the experience of those in channel, I can relate to the smaller corps Screwing with timers does not fix the problem that new corps face. Currently there is no penalty for Big Corps attacking New Corps (except honour in a video game lol) Honour in a video game set in New Eden of all places So if you really want growth in PC, penalties need to be added when attacking smaller corps. eg. ToP vs THOD // MuLa vs OUTCAST MERCS // SoG vs Y.A.M.A.H // Prima vs Pendejito's read left to right and thats the winner of each which was decided before the battles began Why? Because smaller corps need practice before facing veteran teams Currently the incentive for most is bring your top 16 and get a paycheck Where if corps had 'security' ratings this could limit that.. The rating would affect payouts, so they could still be attacked by All But if you bring a top 16 vs newb 16, you recieve low payout This encourages corps to bring in new players when facing new teams Rather than HTFU GG QQ, just don't let people profit off beating small corps down The only point I can agree with so far, is the proposals from either side are not that great (CCP/Vets) You want PC to be the go-to for mercs that think your talking about a computer when PC is mentioned?? I can't see timer changes having much affect on this.. other than adding more restrictions. But even looking at this, no proposal will be perfect and none have been so far No matter what you do, someone will reap the benefits and another will pay the price
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1470	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:20:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. It would encourage it since it would become necessity. Little surprised we are going down the full Planetside 2 route but this is a solid discussion and worth exploring. Question to you Rattati...do all districts need the same mechanic? Can there be different mechanics for differnt types of districts? Example: 1) For a Corp's single designated "home district" you have a traditional timer similar to what we have or from my perspective with a fairly small attack window. You designate it and perhaps have to purchase a special upgrade for it. 2) Optional...In addition to the designated corp 'home district" you could spend major ISK / Activity resources to upgrade a very limited number of systems to having a window but broad enough of one to ensure it touches the edges of different TZs. Maybe you can have no more than two or three of these for the entire Corp; you could also tie them geographically to the "home district" so it only works if they are on the same planet...call it an Integreated Early Warning / Defense Network. I guess you could operate numerous alt corps to produce "home districts" and pseudo-protected districts but you could make the cost of upgrade so high it's not tenable and if you fall below a certain level of activity (ie. resource / fuel production or whatever we are calling it) the defense network goes down and it's open season across time zones on you. Ergo...alt corp for home districts quickly becomes more trouble than it's worth and simply not practical due to activity and perhaps corp size requirements. 3) Everything else...wild west. Is that a technical possibility? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:28:00 - [123] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. I talk about it all the time. It pisses off the portion of the PC community that's been able to control things with relatively few elite players. I like Pokey's ideas a lot. As long as there is some spontaneous raiding mechanic that takes away profits if land holders don't show up or successfully defend raids. If they no show in succession I think the raids should work to "soften up" districts where they could be attacked instantly and flipped if nobody shows. I don't like attacks happening 24-48 hours after the attack is made because I think it's always allowed groups to hire ringers they know can flip districts or prevent them from being flipped. Over time it caused many average corps to just give up and more and more talent poured into the corps that kept their hat in the game. BUT I do think the raiding mechanic would allow average players to keep elite players from holding too much of the pie. I have seen very few proposals from anyone from a PC power corp that would have done anything other than keep their thumbs on the masses. Ariana had a nice window timer proposal that I liked a lot, but outside of that I can't recall anything that would open PC at all. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:28:00 - [124] - Quote i have to repeat any kind of timers and districts control from corp will only result in stale PC and vets playing FW or pubs because their primary activity is locked for the time being timers and locks are a bad core mechanic that needs to disappear those people that want to be entitled to have a district and are anti social thus not in multi time zone alliance should not be able to defend the district or play 24/7 if you want to control a district and earn it while defending it with your alliance get a multi time zone alliance fro district security Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:33:00 - [125] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: i have to repeat any kind of timers and districts control from corp will only result in stale PC and vets playing FW or pubs because their primary activity is locked for the time being timers and locks are a bad core mechanic that needs to disappear those people that want to be entitled to have a district and are anti social thus not in multi time zone alliance should not be able to defend the district or play 24/7 if you want to control a district and earn it while defending it with your alliance get a multi time zone alliance fro district security There's already a game for that. It's called Planetside 2. There has to be someway to manage it to make the landholding worthwhile. Having a window timer that's up-gradable to get a window of say 2 hours would be sufficient to create the gameplay you'd like to see. An elite corp would probably find it worthwhile to upgrade their districts for the smallest windows possible, but a large corp full of low to medium skill players would probably just leave it at 4-8 hours for example. During those windows battles would spin up nearly instantly. I don't think this is as critical if you have a raid mechanic that I described above. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:39:00 - [126] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Zene Ren wrote: i have to repeat any kind of timers and districts control from corp will only result in stale PC and vets playing FW or pubs because their primary activity is locked for the time being timers and locks are a bad core mechanic that needs to disappear those people that want to be entitled to have a district and are anti social thus not in multi time zone alliance should not be able to defend the district or play 24/7 if you want to control a district and earn it while defending it with your alliance get a multi time zone alliance fro district security There's already a game for that. It's called Planetside 2. There has to be someway to manage it to make the landholding worthwhile. Having a window timer that's up-gradable to get a window of say 2 hours would be sufficient to create the gameplay you'd like to see. An elite corp would probably find it worthwhile to upgrade their districts for the smallest windows possible, but a large corp full of low to medium skill players would probably just leave it at 4-8 hours for example. During those windows battles would spin up nearly instantly. I don't think this is as critical if you have a raid mechanic that I described above. no PS2 has 3 factions and and only few persistant maps thus it fails at "land holding" we have corps and alliance and one big server for whole world unlike PS2 the whole community in one place we have connection to eve that should be deepen later so that pilots needs to weeken the 1st defense and after that mercs come in we have more maps and places that fight can be done and as it was planned PC should be an equivalent of previous corp battles for all everybody has to have a chance to attack when online ATM and alliance security needs to be informed and ready for defence it is critical to rid off all timers for people that only want to do PC while online, why hurt 95% of community when this 5% want to be elite and keep locks on "their" land ity should be not possible for one small corp with elite players to keep the rest in check because of lock(artificial and stupid mechanic IMO) and keep the rest from playing their primarily game mode by doing so PC needs to be open for everybody 24/7 or else we are back at status quo, broken game mode that hand full plays while rest needs to play FW or proto stomp pubs this needs to end Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 16:55:00 - [127] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. As Jaysyn said it would encourage that because it's necessary. But as I pointed out before, if you allow attackers to attack whenever they want, you're looking at any point in a 24 hour window. Sure people can wake up early to do a PC match, but if the other side is doing it in a comfortable afternoon and you're defending at 4AM, that's not sustainable. So you really have to go under the assumption of what is possible in the long rune. So if we say the average person can devote 8 hours to playing the game in a sustainable fashion, that means you need 16 guys for every 8 hours. You can recruit others to cover the empty time, so 2 more teams of 16 for a grand total of 48 players to defend a single district. 48 players needed for a single district seems excessive to me. Hell I think 8 hours might be a little much to expect, if people get off at 6PM and play till mightnight, that's only 6 hours for each group which would push the total needed players to 64). There is also the issue of imbalance between regions in that there are far more NA players than Oceania and I imagine Europe lands somewhere in the middle. So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot. As an aside, I'll admit that I'm not Uber Hardcore like some of the guys here. And while I'm willing to make some changes every once in a while, you have to remember that at the end of the day this is still a video game. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if I have to literally change my lifestyle, sleep, or work schedule so I can play the game....the fun starts to quickly evaporate and it turns into a chore. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:01:00 - [128] - Quote You wish 5% of the game played PC, it's nowhere near that high. This came from the only people versed in full team play being closed beta players that pooled their talent while participating in corporation battles. When PC dropped there was no way for anyone to practice for PC outside of spending 80 million ISK for a single clone pack. The number of players and corps in PC was much higher in the beginning, but it became clear that the mechanics were too much in the favor of those that were either small, elite groups or had those groups on speed dial. You can't go from one extreme to another. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:07:00 - [129] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. As Jaysyn said it would encourage that because it's necessary. But as I pointed out before, if you allow attackers to attack whenever they want, you're looking at any point in a 24 hour window. Sure people can wake up early to do a PC match, but if the other side is doing it in a comfortable afternoon and you're defending at 4AM, that's not sustainable. So you really have to go under the assumption of what is possible in the long rune. So if we say the average person can devote 8 hours to playing the game in a sustainable fashion, that means you need 16 guys for every 8 hours. You can recruit others to cover the empty time, so 2 more teams of 16 for a grand total of 48 players to defend a single district. 48 players needed for a single district seems excessive to me. Hell I think 8 hours might be a little much to expect, if people get off at 6PM and play till mightnight, that's only 6 hours for each group which would push the total needed players to 64). There is also the issue of imbalance between regions in that there are far more NA players than Oceania and I imagine Europe lands somewhere in the middle. So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot. As an aside, I'll admit that I'm not Uber Hardcore like some of the guys here. And while I'm willing to make some changes every once in a while, you have to remember that at the end of the day this is still a video game. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if I have to literally change my lifestyle, sleep, or work schedule so I can play the game....the fun starts to quickly evaporate and it turns into a chore. just make multi time zone alliance you don't have to defend 24/7 alliance security is for that people like you always think it seems my district only i have to defend it that is bad and only will hinder the game for others that want a shot at PC you got friends outside of corp or alliances they are called mercs for a reason need two more because you're short hire them if the attack is on the asia time zone let asia time zone corp from your alliance to handle it simple as that if some one will take most oceania players so what man? it is politics and new eden life is harsh one time you lose one time you winn the community will balance it self w/o any artificial boundaries that are keeping others from playing their primarly game mode when they are online seriously we need to stop with this elite approach and let the community dictate the power struggle alliances and corps not some timers and lock, we have one universe for that no one demands for you to change your life style but still you're trying to be special not everything suppose to rely on only your or your corp shoulders, get into multi time zone alliance and problem solved i have to repeat more timers or any iteration of them will only result in stale game play and vets ruining noobs life in the game that will not grow because newbies will not have will to continue and grow to vets PC should be dynamic and active like corp battles were and vets have to play it 24/7 w/o locks or the status quo will stay as it is and that is small community because people needs time to grow in this game and they will not grow because vets have noting to do(locked districts) and will farm newbs in pub matches or q sync for them or play FW while wanting to play PC only Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:08:00 - [130] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. As Jaysyn said it would encourage that because it's necessary. But as I pointed out before, if you allow attackers to attack whenever they want, you're looking at any point in a 24 hour window. Sure people can wake up early to do a PC match, but if the other side is doing it in a comfortable afternoon and you're defending at 4AM, that's not sustainable. So you really have to go under the assumption of what is possible in the long rune. So if we say the average person can devote 8 hours to playing the game in a sustainable fashion, that means you need 16 guys for every 8 hours. You can recruit others to cover the empty time, so 2 more teams of 16 for a grand total of 48 players to defend a single district. 48 players needed for a single district seems excessive to me. Hell I think 8 hours might be a little much to expect, if people get off at 6PM and play till mightnight, that's only 6 hours for each group which would push the total needed players to 64). There is also the issue of imbalance between regions in that there are far more NA players than Oceania and I imagine Europe lands somewhere in the middle. So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot. As an aside, I'll admit that I'm not Uber Hardcore like some of the guys here. And while I'm willing to make some changes every once in a while, you have to remember that at the end of the day this is still a video game. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if I have to literally change my lifestyle, sleep, or work schedule so I can play the game....the fun starts to quickly evaporate and it turns into a chore. If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well **** that. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:11:00 - [131] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. As Jaysyn said it would encourage that because it's necessary. But as I pointed out before, if you allow attackers to attack whenever they want, you're looking at any point in a 24 hour window. Sure people can wake up early to do a PC match, but if the other side is doing it in a comfortable afternoon and you're defending at 4AM, that's not sustainable. So you really have to go under the assumption of what is possible in the long rune. So if we say the average person can devote 8 hours to playing the game in a sustainable fashion, that means you need 16 guys for every 8 hours. You can recruit others to cover the empty time, so 2 more teams of 16 for a grand total of 48 players to defend a single district. 48 players needed for a single district seems excessive to me. Hell I think 8 hours might be a little much to expect, if people get off at 6PM and play till mightnight, that's only 6 hours for each group which would push the total needed players to 64). There is also the issue of imbalance between regions in that there are far more NA players than Oceania and I imagine Europe lands somewhere in the middle. So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot. As an aside, I'll admit that I'm not Uber Hardcore like some of the guys here. And while I'm willing to make some changes every once in a while, you have to remember that at the end of the day this is still a video game. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if I have to literally change my lifestyle, sleep, or work schedule so I can play the game....the fun starts to quickly evaporate and it turns into a chore. just make multi time zone alliance you don't have to defend 24/7 alliance security is for that people like you always think it seems my district only i have to defend it that is bad and only will hinder the game for others that want a shot at PC you got friends outside of corp or alliances they are called mercs for a reason need two more because you're short hire them if the attack is on the asia time zone let asia time zone corp from your alliance to handle it simple as that if some one will take most oceania players so what man? it is politics and new eden life is harsh one time you lose one time you winn the community will balance it self w/o any artificial boundaries that are keeping others from playing their primarly game mode when they are online seriously we need to stop with this elite approach and let the community dictate the power struggle alliances and corps not some timers and lock, we have one universe for that no one demands for you to change your life style but still you're trying to be special not everything suppose to rely on only your or your corp shoulders, get into multi time zone alliance and problem solved i have to repeat more timers or any iteration of them will only result in stale game play and vets ruining noobs life in the game that will not grow because newbies will not have will to continue and grow to vets PC should be dynamic and active like corp battles were and vets have to play it 24/7 w/o locks or the status quo will stay as it is and that is small community because people needs time to grow in this game and they will not grow because vets have noting to do(locked districts) and will farm newbs in pub matches or q sync for them or play FW while wanting to play PC only What you propose won't cause people to enter alliances. It would cause all the serious players to quit and the vacuum would be filled by people who can't spell grabbing people out of local chat. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:14:00 - [132] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Ghostt Shadoww wrote: You can't wake up and defend. Then that's your problem ... For me its more like, I'm not going to leave my job to do a PC match. If my corp is working and we always get attacked while we're all at work, are we just screwed until the weekend? Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation. As Jaysyn said it would encourage that because it's necessary. But as I pointed out before, if you allow attackers to attack whenever they want, you're looking at any point in a 24 hour window. Sure people can wake up early to do a PC match, but if the other side is doing it in a comfortable afternoon and you're defending at 4AM, that's not sustainable. So you really have to go under the assumption of what is possible in the long rune. So if we say the average person can devote 8 hours to playing the game in a sustainable fashion, that means you need 16 guys for every 8 hours. You can recruit others to cover the empty time, so 2 more teams of 16 for a grand total of 48 players to defend a single district. 48 players needed for a single district seems excessive to me. Hell I think 8 hours might be a little much to expect, if people get off at 6PM and play till mightnight, that's only 6 hours for each group which would push the total needed players to 64). There is also the issue of imbalance between regions in that there are far more NA players than Oceania and I imagine Europe lands somewhere in the middle. So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot. As an aside, I'll admit that I'm not Uber Hardcore like some of the guys here. And while I'm willing to make some changes every once in a while, you have to remember that at the end of the day this is still a video game. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if I have to literally change my lifestyle, sleep, or work schedule so I can play the game....the fun starts to quickly evaporate and it turns into a chore. If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well **** that. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2. and this is the elite mentality i was refering to "PC corps only don't want" everyone needs to have a chance not only 5% as it is now there will be no need for 500 players too, from where do you guys take those numbers, no alliance should have that many districts again man i am not a seer or fortune teller but i know that 5% should not dictate or discurage 95% from participating in PC because they can not handle 24/7 defence so what if you lose some because your alliance could not defend all and after that not only will go on holidays those attackers will have them too Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:19:00 - [133] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: What you propose won't cause people to enter alliances. It would cause all the serious players to quit and the vacuum would be filled by people who can't spell grabbing people out of local chat. man seriously you behave like a fortune teller how do you know that all would leave or that new players will not be able to seriously talking about self entitlement nvm mind though community newbs and vets would control that after some time the community playing community would balance itself also as in every sandbox game the community always balance it self w/o any issue those artificial boundaries (timers in this case) are what makes imbalance Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:21:00 - [134] - Quote Zene Ren, you didn't fully read everything I said since I already addressed your counterpoints in the original post. Thor Odinson42 wrote: If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well ** that. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2. My point exactly. Even with a full day's notice, being attacked any time of the day is going to quickly cause issues. If we had an even distribution of players around the world it would be less of an issue, but which certain regions have small player bases that tend to clump into singular groups, whoever grabs those groups first is going to dominate. What you'll end up with is a handful of alliances dominating PC because they hold all of the players from a certain region, allowing them to freely take any district because the defenders will simply be unable to find anyone to recruit in those time zones. I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:25:00 - [135] - Quote Zene Ren, I've advocated to open up PC to more players through different mechanics for nearly 2 years. I've begged CCP for nearly 2 years to give us some other form of team deploy to get the masses prepared for PC. I've asked for more incentives to win pub matches, to push people into squads, etc. It's not an elite mentality that I am coming from. You think that a new to PC corp will be willing to invest 100s of millions of ISK to see it all lost while they sleep? They may once, but they won't do it again. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:30:00 - [136] - Quote i can tell you guys one thing for sure we had timers mechanic till now did it worked? did a variations of it worked? instead of game mode for all vets we have elite club that most people within even tell it does not work and every variation will not i am only saying most vets do stomp newbs because they are locked off from the game mode they want to play only do not worry about holding the districts for now open the flood gates let everybody who wants to play it as a focused mode play it and then just do minor tweaks with penalties or benefits after that when we will have data what needs to be done "I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle." we got that because of those locks and abusing mechanics constantly needing tweaks instead of adding new things still if there is not that many of those then why are you even mentioning the threat of being attacked constantly at 4 am or some other not good for you hours? ( on a side note your arguments are starting to contradict each other) Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:32:00 - [137] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren, you didn't fully read everything I said since I already addressed your counterpoints in the original post. Thor Odinson42 wrote: If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well **** that. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2. My point exactly. Even with a full day's notice, being attacked any time of the day is going to quickly cause issues. If we had an even distribution of players around the world it would be less of an issue, but which certain regions have small player bases that tend to clump into singular groups, whoever grabs those groups first is going to dominate. What you'll end up with is a handful of alliances dominating PC because they hold all of the players from a certain region, allowing them to freely take any district because the defenders will simply be unable to find anyone to recruit in those time zones. I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle. To point out where he's coming from here Zene. No new to PC corps would be able to take anything from the sure to pop up super alliance during the North American prime times. Their only hope would be to hit them during Euro, Asian, or Australian prime times. But they'd quickly find out that the super alliance had locked up all the talent in that timezone as well. If CCP completely removed timers one of two things would happen: 1) ALL of the current PC community would band together to prevent the "wake up and everything is gone" scenario OR 2) CCP's most dedicated, highest spending clientele would exit the building and give up the last of the hope they had left. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:40:00 - [138] - Quote pokey, "So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot." so what you will have at least what to do battling PC to reclaim them in your preferred time zone and the"wheel will be constantly turning" PC guys will have constant PC, newbs will have peace in public contracts w/o proto stompers and advanced SP people will have FW where is harm in that? i can't believe that only the honor of those PC vet elite group will be damaged a bit because they would have to reclaim lost districts but guess what PC will be open and the game mode everybody vet wants to be in will be used in time as i said community will balance itself out with how many districts you can control and hold for longer as in every open sandbox environment Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:41:00 - [139] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: i can tell you guys one thing for sure we had timers mechanic till now did it worked? did a variations of it worked? instead of game mode for all vets we have elite club that most people within even tell it does not work and every variation will not i am only saying most vets do stomp newbs because they are locked off from the game mode they want to play only do not worry about holding the districts for now open the flood gates let everybody who wants to play it as a focused mode play it and then just do minor tweaks with penalties or benefits after that when we will have data what needs to be done "I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle." we got that because of those locks and abusing mechanics constantly needing tweaks instead of adding new things still if there is not that many of those then why are you even mentioning the threat of being attacked constantly at 4 am or some other not good for you hours? ( on a side note your arguments are starting to contradict each other) I understand your frustration with how PC has played out. But I think you don't totally understand how and why things have played out the way they have. The locking and the abusing of mechanics came about because the people that couldn't contend with the super corps needed something to keep themselves on the field. If not for the ability to lock, PC would have been dead a LONG time ago and we probably would have seen the need for an ISK wipe. Your concerns for accessibility and entry for the masses into PC are addressed by a raiding mechanic. If done properly they would put pressure on established corps to maintain their districts or they'd risk losing them easily. BUT it would still keep a place for a small, elite corp to be successful through quality not quantity. CCP can't make it 100% about the zerg. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5777	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:42:00 - [140] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: pokey, "So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot." so what you will have at least what to do battling PC to reclaim them in your preferred time zone and the"wheel will be constantly turning" PC guys will have constant PC, newbs will have peace in public contracts w/o proto stompers and advanced SP people will have FW where is harm in that? i can't believe that only the honor of those PC vet elite group will be damaged a bit because they would have to reclaim lost districts but guess what PC will be open and the game mode everybody vet wants to be in will be used in time as i said community will balance itself out with how many districts you can control and hold for longer as in every open sandbox environment If it's a constant gain and loss of districts you'd never be able to recoup your ISK investment. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.

Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:45:00 - [141] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren, you didn't fully read everything I said since I already addressed your counterpoints in the original post. Thor Odinson42 wrote: If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well **** that. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2. My point exactly. Even with a full day's notice, being attacked any time of the day is going to quickly cause issues. If we had an even distribution of players around the world it would be less of an issue, but which certain regions have small player bases that tend to clump into singular groups, whoever grabs those groups first is going to dominate. What you'll end up with is a handful of alliances dominating PC because they hold all of the players from a certain region, allowing them to freely take any district because the defenders will simply be unable to find anyone to recruit in those time zones. I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle. To point out where he's coming from here Zene. No new to PC corps would be able to take anything from the sure to pop up super alliance during the North American prime times. Their only hope would be to hit them during Euro, Asian, or Australian prime times. But they'd quickly find out that the super alliance had locked up all the talent in that timezone as well. If CCP completely removed timers one of two things would happen: 1) ALL of the current PC community would band together to prevent the "wake up and everything is gone" scenario OR 2) CCP's most dedicated, highest spending clientele would exit the building and give up the last of the hope they had left. i took that under consideration Thor but still PC will be open for others to try and play that mode only, we can not say that everybody will consolidate to "rule them all" but the game mode will be there and underdogs will have a constant shot at playing PC where's harm in that for a start, later we can tweak that but w/o those forsaken timers and locking ready to be abused mechanic Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 103	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:47:00 - [142] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: If it's a constant gain and loss of districts you'd never be able to recoup your ISK investment. but the wheel for everybody that wants to participate in PC when he is online will be turning and that is what should be the point of PC IMO Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5778	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:49:00 - [143] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: What you propose won't cause people to enter alliances. It would cause all the serious players to quit and the vacuum would be filled by people who can't spell grabbing people out of local chat. man seriously you behave like a fortune teller how do you know that all would leave or that new players will not be able to, seriously talking about self entitlement nvm mind though... community newbs and vets would control that after some time the community playing the game would balance itself also as in every sandbox game the community always balance it self w/o any issue those artificial boundaries (timers in this case) are what makes imbalance You think the best players in the game that have spent nearly 2 years fighting in PC feel entitled? I guess I'd have to agree. I'm sure all of null sec in Eve would feel pretty entitled and would act negatively to say the least if they made mining ships, ratting ships, and mobile siphon units invincible. That's basically the same thing right? Giving the casual players the ability to completely **** all over the sandbox they've worked to build. I'd rather CCP not go from one extreme to another. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5778	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:52:00 - [144] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren, you didn't fully read everything I said since I already addressed your counterpoints in the original post. Thor Odinson42 wrote: If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well **** that. I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2. My point exactly. Even with a full day's notice, being attacked any time of the day is going to quickly cause issues. If we had an even distribution of players around the world it would be less of an issue, but which certain regions have small player bases that tend to clump into singular groups, whoever grabs those groups first is going to dominate. What you'll end up with is a handful of alliances dominating PC because they hold all of the players from a certain region, allowing them to freely take any district because the defenders will simply be unable to find anyone to recruit in those time zones. I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle. To point out where he's coming from here Zene. No new to PC corps would be able to take anything from the sure to pop up super alliance during the North American prime times. Their only hope would be to hit them during Euro, Asian, or Australian prime times. But they'd quickly find out that the super alliance had locked up all the talent in that timezone as well. If CCP completely removed timers one of two things would happen: 1) ALL of the current PC community would band together to prevent the "wake up and everything is gone" scenario OR 2) CCP's most dedicated, highest spending clientele would exit the building and give up the last of the hope they had left. i took that under consideration Thor but still PC will be open for others to try and play that mode only, we can not say that everybody will consolidate to "rule them all" but the game mode will be there and underdogs will have a constant shot at playing PC where's harm in that for a start, later we can tweak that but w/o those forsaken timers and locking ready to be abused mechanic Why not start with timer mechanics and tweak them as needed? Going from what we have now to zero timers would be a horrible mistake. I can assure you as can anyone that knows me in this game that I've wanted to see PC accessible to more of the community for a long time. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 104	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:52:00 - [145] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: What you propose won't cause people to enter alliances. It would cause all the serious players to quit and the vacuum would be filled by people who can't spell grabbing people out of local chat. man seriously you behave like a fortune teller how do you know that all would leave or that new players will not be able to, seriously talking about self entitlement nvm mind though... community newbs and vets would control that after some time the community playing the game would balance itself also as in every sandbox game the community always balance it self w/o any issue those artificial boundaries (timers in this case) are what makes imbalance You think the best players in the game that have spent nearly 2 years fighting in PC feel entitled? I guess I'd have to agree. I'm sure all of null sec in Eve would feel pretty entitled and would act negatively to say the least if they made mining ships, ratting ships, and mobile siphon units invincible. That's basically the same thing right? Giving the casual players the ability to completely **** all over the sandbox they've worked to build. I'd rather CCP not go from one extreme to another. there are no rules in null sec man... that is why it is called null sec no timers and locks only community owning particular system amt with man power and time availability so why should we have rules in our null sec our timers and locks?!?! it should be community power struggle not artificial boundaries... Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 17:57:00 - [146] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: i can tell you guys one thing for sure we had timers mechanic till now did it worked? did a variations of it worked? instead of game mode for all vets we have elite club that most people within even tell it does not work and every variation will not i am only saying most vets do stomp newbs because they are locked off from the game mode they want to play only do not worry about holding the districts for now open the flood gates let everybody who wants to play it as a focused mode play it and then just do minor tweaks with penalties or benefits after that when we will have data what needs to be done "I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle." we got that because of those locks and abusing mechanics constantly needing tweaks instead of adding new things still if there is not that many of those then why are you even mentioning the threat of being attacked constantly at 4 am or some other not good for you hours? ( on a side note your arguments are starting to contradict each other) We never had a real variant on timers, only how end of battle results would proc to help mitigate the district locking. No major or substantial change was made to the way timers worked. You're running under the assumption that any sort of timer whatsoever will have the same results but that thought process is misguided. I'm not advocating for some elite club, I'm advocating that a corporation shouldn't just automatically win because it's in a time zone the other side can't defend against. And I'm not contradicting myself. If a single Japanese corp can casually launch PC matches during the afternoon against a NA corporation at some god awful hour in the morning, they can keep those attacks up forever and do so without breaking a sweat, whereas the NA corp will burn out quickly because of **** times. Ok so the NA corp has to recruit a Japanese corp to fight the Japanese....but what do they do if all of the Japanese Corps are already taken? Additionally you'll come back with "Well the Americans can just attack back at a time that works for them and the Japanese will be in the same boat!" but heres the deal. Due to the LARGE spready in player count, a Japanese corp will NEVER have a hard time finding a NA alliance to defend for them becuase there are a lot of NA groups. However a NA Alliance will struggle to find a Japanese corp for their alliance. Even if we assume there are 2 NA alliances for every Oceanic corporation, that means that half the alliances will be unable to defend the Oceanic time slot. Does that seem right to you? So what choice do they have? THey'll be forced to just merge with another alliance, ok so now we have just a small handful of Super Alliances, and their numbers will basically be entirely dictated by the number of separate group available in odd time regions. And you're not really correct, there were indeed more Oceanic groups before PC went to , but there was never even close an even distribution of players globally, so this problem would have persisted anyways. Hell the Oceanic server was shut down BECAUSE there were so few players on it. No amount of increased activity will avoid this issue unless the global player population is brought up to be nearly even. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 105	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:05:00 - [147] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: i can tell you guys one thing for sure we had timers mechanic till now did it worked? did a variations of it worked? instead of game mode for all vets we have elite club that most people within even tell it does not work and every variation will not i am only saying most vets do stomp newbs because they are locked off from the game mode they want to play only do not worry about holding the districts for now open the flood gates let everybody who wants to play it as a focused mode play it and then just do minor tweaks with penalties or benefits after that when we will have data what needs to be done "I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle." we got that because of those locks and abusing mechanics constantly needing tweaks instead of adding new things still if there is not that many of those then why are you even mentioning the threat of being attacked constantly at 4 am or some other not good for you hours? ( on a side note your arguments are starting to contradict each other) We never had a real variant on timers, only how end of battle results would proc to help mitigate the district locking. No major or substantial change was made to the way timers worked. You're running under the assumption that any sort of timer whatsoever will have the same results but that thought process is misguided. I'm not advocating for some elite club, I'm advocating that a corporation shouldn't just automatically win because it's in a time zone the other side can't defend against. And I'm not contradicting myself. If a single Japanese corp can casually launch PC matches during the afternoon against a NA corporation at some god awful hour in the morning, they can keep those attacks up forever and do so without breaking a sweat, whereas the NA corp will burn out quickly because of **** times. Ok so the NA corp has to recruit a Japanese corp to fight the Japanese....but what do they do if all of the Japanese Corps are already taken? Additionally you'll come back with "Well the Americans can just attack back at a time that works for them and the Japanese will be in the same boat!" but heres the deal. Due to the LARGE spready in player count, a Japanese corp will NEVER have a hard time finding a NA alliance to defend for them becuase there are a lot of NA groups. However a NA Alliance will struggle to find a Japanese corp for their alliance. Even if we assume there are 2 NA alliances for every Oceanic corporation, that means that half the alliances will be unable to defend the Oceanic time slot. Does that seem right to you? So what choice do they have? THey'll be forced to just merge with another alliance, ok so now we have just a small handful of Super Alliances, and their numbers will basically be entirely dictated by the number of separate group available in odd time regions. And you're not really correct, there were indeed more Oceanic groups before PC went to **, but there was never even close an even distribution of players globally, so this problem would have persisted anyways. Hell the Oceanic server was shut down BECAUSE there were so few players on it. No amount of increased activity will avoid this issue unless the global player population is brought up to be nearly even. they will struggle to get other time zone corps but it will not be impossible like it is now with any form of timers and locks yes you 're contradicting a bit because you aver estimate other regions fighting force and then try to put fear into people that stay behind opened mechanic by crating artificial scenarios although they are better then constantly abusing timers mechanic to rule them all by it it still be always open to play for underdogs that want to do only PC and the wheels will turn all the time yes but then they did not have any alliance tools to respond for an attack on any of their corp districts beside mailing and pub channels and that is not enough where is the sense in playing PC if it is always closed for participants creating other issues for other game modes? Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:09:00 - [148] - Quote LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 105	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:13:00 - [149] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:16:00 - [150] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: they will struggle to get other time zone corps but it will not be impossible like it is now with any form of timers and locks yes you 're contradicting yourself a bit because you over estimate other regions fighting force and then try to put fear into people that stay behind open mechanic by crating artificial scenarios although they are better then constantly abusing timers mechanic to rule them all by it it still be always open to play for underdogs that want to do only PC and the wheels will turn all the time yes but then they did not have any alliance tools to respond for an attack on any of their corp districts beside mailing and pub channels and that is not enough where is the sense in playing PC if it is always closed for participants creating other issues for other game modes? Im not creating artificial scenarios, I'm staying that there is not enough of a player balance globally for everyone to properly defend all time zones, this is a fact. There are other options that can deal with the Timer associated issue other than simply removing them. For the sake of discussion, could you please clearly list out the issues you see with the current timer mechanic so I can offer up solutions? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Flyingconejo Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1142	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:19:00 - [151] - Quote Timers are not the problem. Low PC population is. Juggle with the timers all you want, in the end, it wont change anything, and PC will still be empty save for the 100-150 players that have always been there. There are not enough players to make the current system work. There are not enough players to make any of the proposed changes work. You have focused so much in making your game hard that forgot to make it fun. For most players trying to get into PC, they get a very low Fun/Effort ratio. PC battles are the best thing this game has to offer, but for most new corps, it takes too much time to get good enough so they can start having fun with them, and they give up, never to come back. Give them an intermediate step where they can train and have fun. FW is not good enough because you can't choose your opponent, so bring back the corp battle system from the open beta, but with 16 vs 16, with both sides knowing who they are going to fight beforehand, and very low stakes beyond the equipment used. That would be fun and help people prepare for PC. And being in PC should offer something to district owners that would compel them to bother with it instead of playing in the minor, corp battle league. That's my 2 cents. Anyway, for me PC is broken at its core from the start, so any band aid you try will have very little effect, apart from starting over from zero. If you are not going to do that, you might as well leave it as is.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:23:00 - [152] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then big inhale we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! big inhale WAAAAAA!!!!!" Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1760	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:29:00 - [153] - Quote Get rid of the timers. You want PC to be fun? Get rid of the timers. Give a 30 minute warning to the corp being attacked. Watch PC turn into an actual conquest mode. Go Here and vote! 1 like is 1 vote!
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:32:00 - [154] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: they will struggle to get other time zone corps but it will not be impossible like it is now with any form of timers and locks yes you 're contradicting yourself a bit because you over estimate other regions fighting force and then try to put fear into people that stay behind open mechanic by crating artificial scenarios although they are better then constantly abusing timers mechanic to rule them all by it it still be always open to play for underdogs that want to do only PC and the wheels will turn all the time yes but then they did not have any alliance tools to respond for an attack on any of their corp districts beside mailing and pub channels and that is not enough where is the sense in playing PC if it is always closed for participants creating other issues for other game modes? Im not creating artificial scenarios, I'm staying that there is not enough of a player balance globally for everyone to properly defend all time zones, this is a fact. There are other options that can deal with the Timer associated issue other than simply removing them. For the sake of discussion, could you please clearly list out the issues you see with the current timer mechanic so I can offer up solutions? there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM sorry pokey but you can not anything with this with timers PC was meant to be a replacement for corp battles and with timers people can not play their game mode of choice when and where they want because 5% lock districts with the entitlement of IT IS MINE Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:34:00 - [155] - Quote Put simply, PC right now has the LOWEST bar for entry it ever has ( we give districts away for FREE) , the best conditions for a sustained presence from ANY group (the widely PC community agreed upon, accepted, and enforced "Last District Rule") as well as a wealth of diversity in corp strengths, open to attack timer spreads and extra available manpower if needed. All this talk about, " Oh yeah, well just get some corp members from a different timezone" can be applied just as justifiably to any noobcorp trying to get in and not seeing a timer they can field a challenge to. All this talk about, "Oh yeah, well just join an alliance that will help you" can also be applied just as justifiably to any noobcorp trying to get in and not seeing a corp whose memberbase they can field a challenge to. Quite frankly, from what I've seen of PC the last two years, both from outside it as well as inside it, if you can't plant a flag in it right now then you aren't competent enough as a player to realistically ever expect to. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:34:00 - [156] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then big inhale we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! big inhale WAAAAAA!!!!!" man seriously are you some kind of Pokeys parrot attorney? you know you don't have to be, pls keep it civil and i can respond w/o any issue the artificial scenario is: people want to play only PC because they are online they have enough SP and they have the team and with timers it is not possible simple as that Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:35:00 - [157] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:37:00 - [158] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it? players with the right amount of SP, team mates, and time at the moment they are online, want to queue for PC and play that mode this is not possible with timers Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:37:00 - [159] - Quote RemingtonBeaver wrote: Get rid of the timers. You want PC to be fun? Get rid of the timers. Give a 30 minute warning to the corp being attacked. Watch PC turn into an actual conquest mode. LOOOOOLOLOLOL YES! The tears!! The delicious tears that will fall!!! PC will be the absolute EPITOME of a protostomped pub!!! And then, when tired, the stompers will retire back to casually protostomping ACTUAL pubs!!! LOL, its the Snake That Eats its Tail!!!! LOOOOOoL!1!1!111!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2403	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:38:00 - [160] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then big inhale we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! big inhale WAAAAAA!!!!!" Wow, you need reading comprehension. He is basically stating that if there were a "Surprise Raiding" mechanic a new breed of PC participant could arise. The Pirate. We don't hold land (**** that, let you greedy bastards pay the Sov bill), we can't be kicked out because we don't hold land and we can still run a profit at your expense while you're off making yourself feel good by being "competitive" with the other mouthbreathers. What don't you understand about that? Who will your "Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad" corps attack in retaliation while we're raiding your District while you're off attacking someone else? Not everyone who wants to play PC wants to hold land, only the "competitive" apes who need pixels to be proud of will be pursuing that (or their sycophants). Here's hoping that CCP does include a Sov Bill mechanic Please Rattati, please. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:41:00 - [161] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it? players with the right amount of SP, team mates, and time at the moment they are online, want to queue for PC and play that mode this is not possible with timers So...so we're clear, you want people to be able to attack a district at any time of the day with minimal notice? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4314	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:44:00 - [162] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:49:00 - [163] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it? players with the right amount of SP, team mates, and time at the moment they are online, want to queue for PC and play that mode this is not possible with timers So...so we're clear, you want people to be able to attack a district at any time of the day with minimal notice? Personally, I think this right here is a necessity for raiding. No warning, if you're not paying attention to some kind of activity monitor, we could technically conduct the entire raid without you ever realizing it. Make raids not support more than 1 squad of raiders which will be blue to one another. If other raiders decide to raid at the same time my squad is raiding, then we're red to everyone who isn't us (yay Escalation!!). I do like the idea of needing a beachhead to mount a formal attack, there should be minimal warning (but warning nonetheless) for this beachhead attack. Raiding NEEDS to be a thing in PC. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:50:00 - [164] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then big inhale we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! big inhale WAAAAAA!!!!!" man seriously are you some kind of Pokeys parrot attorney? you know you don't have to be, pls keep it civil and i can respond w/o any issue the artificial scenario is: people want to play only PC because they are online they have enough SP and they have the team and with timers it is not possible simple as that Not at all, Pokey and I actually butt heads pretty often (kinda often? Sometimes. We disagree sometimes. ) My point is you're making a case to increase the exacerbation of noobs in PC, as you think you are making a case to improve your own odds of success. End results: 1) you no more "active" in PC than you are now, 2) existing PC corps being little to no less dominant in PC than they are now, 3) and all those other PCnoobs that used to at least be able to buttress their PC holdings in a minimal manner so they could defend them actively will be vulnerable to the predatory mindsets of the existing PC murdercorps all day, every day. I really think your naivete of PC and what being competitive in PC means is becoming clear here. HINT: Anything you do to make it easier for yourself to succeed will make it easier for the guys that are already able to succeed. So, ask yourself, in that scenario, who winds up ultimately more successful? And who winds up QQing (cough again cough) that the rules/conditions are too hard? Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:51:00 - [165] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again. This was one of the reasons I had no interest in PC from the start. There was no option for people who didn't want to build an empire, I want to mount guerilla warfare against the powers-that-be and make them need to do more than just kiss their neighbors ass to hold their District and turn a profit from it. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:52:00 - [166] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Personally, I think this right here is a necessity for raiding. No warning, if you're not paying attention to some kind of activity monitor, we could technically conduct the entire raid without you ever realizing it. Make raids not support more than 1 squad of raiders which will be blue to one another. If other raiders decide to raid at the same time my squad is raiding, then we're red to everyone who isn't us (yay Escalation!!). I do like the idea of needing a beachhead to mount a formal attack, there should be minimal warning (but warning nonetheless) for this beachhead attack. Raiding NEEDS to be a thing in PC. Raiding? Absolutely. Flipping a district? God no. Theres too much riding on the line for Suprise Buttsex PC attacks if they can take your district in the process. Battles that happen on the fly that give a PC similar experience with less riding on the line? Totally cool with that. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:52:00 - [167] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again. #QQKain Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:54:00 - [168] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Not at all, Pokey and I actually butt heads pretty often (kinda often? Sometimes. We disagree sometimes. ) I'd say its a 5 part love to 4 part hate ratio, +/- 1 depending on the day. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:58:00 - [169] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again. #QQKain Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:59:00 - [170] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Personally, I think this right here is a necessity for raiding. No warning, if you're not paying attention to some kind of activity monitor, we could technically conduct the entire raid without you ever realizing it. Make raids not support more than 1 squad of raiders which will be blue to one another. If other raiders decide to raid at the same time my squad is raiding, then we're red to everyone who isn't us (yay Escalation!!). I do like the idea of needing a beachhead to mount a formal attack, there should be minimal warning (but warning nonetheless) for this beachhead attack. Raiding NEEDS to be a thing in PC. Raiding? Absolutely. Flipping a district? God no. Theres too much riding on the line for Suprise Buttsex PC attacks if they can take your district in the process. Battles that happen on the fly that give a PC similar experience with less riding on the line? Totally cool with that. IDK, I agree and disagree at the same time. Flipping a District should be possible through raiding though much, much harder to do than to just mount a formal attack. If I am constantly raiding one of your outlying District and you never pay attention to it doesn't it make sense that I would eventually become more familiar with that District than you are? If I raid your District a dozen times over the course of a month and you have shown no activity there wouldn't it make sense that your grip on the District would decay as my raids became more frequent? By no means should it be a simple "we're going to raid this District tonight and it'll be ours tomorrow". Though if I wage a war of attrition on that District and you simply ignore it shouldn't it make sense that I would eventually be able to embezzle your profits while you still foot the bill on paper? Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4452	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:02:00 - [171] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: IDK, I agree and disagree at the same time. Flipping a District should be possible through raiding though much, much harder to do than to just mount a formal attack. If I am constantly raiding one of your outlying District and you never pay attention to it doesn't it make sense that I would eventually become more familiar with that District than you are? If I raid your District a dozen times over the course of a month and you have shown no activity there wouldn't it make sense that your grip on the District would decay as my raids became more frequent? By no means should it be a simple "we're going to raid this District tonight and it'll be ours tomorrow". Though if I wage a war of attrition on that District and you simply ignore it shouldn't it make sense that I would eventually be able to embezzle your profits while you still foot the bill on paper? Can raiding have a factor in weakening the defenses of a District? I don't see an issue with that. But I think the final battle that decides the ownership really needs to have more notice so both teams can make sure the best of the best are online for the big finale. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5779	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:15:00 - [172] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: What you propose won't cause people to enter alliances. It would cause all the serious players to quit and the vacuum would be filled by people who can't spell grabbing people out of local chat. man seriously you behave like a fortune teller how do you know that all would leave or that new players will not be able to, seriously talking about self entitlement nvm mind though... community newbs and vets would control that after some time the community playing the game would balance itself also as in every sandbox game the community always balance it self w/o any issue those artificial boundaries (timers in this case) are what makes imbalance You think the best players in the game that have spent nearly 2 years fighting in PC feel entitled? I guess I'd have to agree. I'm sure all of null sec in Eve would feel pretty entitled and would act negatively to say the least if they made mining ships, ratting ships, and mobile siphon units invincible. That's basically the same thing right? Giving the casual players the ability to completely **** all over the sandbox they've worked to build. I'd rather CCP not go from one extreme to another. there are no rules in null sec man... that is why it is called null sec no timers and locks only community owning particular system amt with man power and time availability so why should we have rules in our null sec our timers and locks?!?! it should be community power struggle not artificial boundaries... Null Sec is/was driven by timers. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:19:00 - [173] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then big inhale we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! big inhale WAAAAAA!!!!!" man seriously are you some kind of Pokeys parrot attorney? you know you don't have to be, pls keep it civil and i can respond w/o any issue the artificial scenario is: people want to play only PC because they are online they have enough SP and they have the team and with timers it is not possible simple as that Not at all, Pokey and I actually butt heads pretty often (kinda often? Sometimes. We disagree sometimes. ) My point is you're making a case to increase the exacerbation of noobs in PC, as you think you are making a case to improve your own odds of success. End results: 1) you no more "active" in PC than you are now, 2) existing PC corps being little to no less dominant in PC than they are now, 3) and all those other PCnoobs that used to at least be able to buttress their PC holdings in a minimal manner so they could defend them actively will be vulnerable to the predatory mindsets of the existing PC murdercorps all day, every day. I really think your naivete of PC and what being competitive in PC means is becoming clear here. HINT: Anything you do to make it easier for yourself to succeed will make it easier for the guys that are already able to succeed. So, ask yourself, in that scenario, who winds up ultimately more successful? And who winds up QQing (cough again cough) that the rules/conditions are too hard? man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that: people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids" as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment? new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only nothing more nothing less Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4453	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:22:00 - [174] - Quote Zene, could you please answer my question at the top of the page? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5779	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:24:00 - [175] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: Timers are not the problem. Low PC population is. Juggle with the timers all you want, in the end, it wont change anything, and PC will still be empty save for the 100-150 players that have always been there. There are not enough players to make the current system work. There are not enough players to make any of the proposed changes work. And that is because you have focused so much in making your game hard, that forgot to make it fun. For most players trying to get into PC, they get a very low Fun/Effort ratio. PC battles are the best thing this game has to offer, but for most new corps, it takes too much time to get good enough so they can start having fun with them, and they give up, never to come back. Give them an intermediate step where they can train and have fun. FW is not good enough because you can't choose your opponent, so bring back the corp battle system from the open beta, but with 16 vs 16, with both sides knowing who they are going to fight beforehand, and very low stakes beyond the equipment used. That would be fun and help people prepare for PC. And being in PC should offer something to district owners that would compel them to bother with it instead of playing in the minor, corp battle league. That's my 2 cents. Anyway, for me PC is broken at its core from the start, so any band aid you try will have very little effect. Unless you scrap it and start over from zero, you might as well leave it as is. I'd argue that the current timer mechanics are the number one reason why PC is played by so few. There is no element of surprise. In war a lesser enemy can overcome a stronger opponent if they time their attack right in an advantageous location. We can't really set ambushes in advantageous geological locations, but an element of surprise could and should be implemented. The details are the problem. People have been hung up on far reaching complexities and it appears we will get stuck with timer mechanics that only favor a Zerg. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5779	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:28:00 - [176] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: IDK, I agree and disagree at the same time. Flipping a District should be possible through raiding though much, much harder to do than to just mount a formal attack. If I am constantly raiding one of your outlying District and you never pay attention to it doesn't it make sense that I would eventually become more familiar with that District than you are? If I raid your District a dozen times over the course of a month and you have shown no activity there wouldn't it make sense that your grip on the District would decay as my raids became more frequent? By no means should it be a simple "we're going to raid this District tonight and it'll be ours tomorrow". Though if I wage a war of attrition on that District and you simply ignore it shouldn't it make sense that I would eventually be able to embezzle your profits while you still foot the bill on paper? Can raiding have a factor in weakening the defenses of a District? I don't see an issue with that. But I think the final battle that decides the ownership really needs to have more notice so both teams can make sure the best of the best are online for the big finale. I think this is the area where future tweaking could swing the pendulum of quantity vs quality. If AE is able to get a couple of squads worth of guys to log in and swing an entire war then obviously they might need to look at battles spinning up quickly while making the window of attack smaller. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:31:00 - [177] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene, could you please answer my question at the top of the page? "So...so we're clear, you want people to be able to attack a district at any time of the day with minimal notice? " sure i can raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district as i said with out PC timers pub contracts will be free from q syncs and proto slayers terrorizing newbies, improoving those newbies experience and game play w/o doing anything more advanced SP players will mostly play FW or trying the raiding mechanic while the big boys will have constantly open PC game mode as we had corp battles with raids and district flipping those are only first ideas that come to mind but with minimal effort and resources we could fix most bad things that happen within the game (proto stomping newbies, q syncs for pub contracts etc. etc. etc.) and improve new players numbers also the list goes on and on the most important thing is and will be PC will be approachable and open to all that want to participate and not blocked by game mode breaking rule set Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4453	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:35:00 - [178] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think this is the area where future tweaking could swing the pendulum of quantity vs quality. If AE is able to get a couple of squads worth of guys to log in and swing an entire war then obviously they might need to look at battles spinning up quickly while making the window of attack smaller. Well heres my deal. I totally think that Zerging should have a place in PC. If you're able to spin up battles on the fly and send a swarm of players to collectively devour the enemy's profits by overwhelming them with the sheer number of battles, I think something along that line is fine. However you also don't want zerging to be the ONLY part of PC....quality has to trump quantity in other situations too. That's why I've been moving more towards the "Sure, you can raid whenever you want and if corporations want to defend against it, they need a lot of people to do so. You can make money doing this and it can work to weaken the enemy's empire" at the same time skill and ability also has to matter, so if you want to completely rip a district away from someone, you need to actually win the important battles to obtain land. It leaves a place for those who want to have PC on the fly, but also means that skilled players can still hold and defend land against the swarm. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4453	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:38:00 - [179] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: "yes" Ok so lets say players are on in 6 hour shifts, 16 players each, 4 shifts a day... are you saying that an alliance needs to have 64 players for every district the alliance owns to properly defend it? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 729	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:42:00 - [180] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. - Pats Incubus on the side - reads post - Pats incubus on the side again Those words really stung, and PC guys, you had better get your act together and try to propose something constructive, trust me i fly, and have seen what comes when you make Rattati angry. YOU DONT WANT TO SEE RATTATI ANGRY! In all seriousness though, the bare minimum a timer reset and removing control from the corps is a good thing. Instead of offering a false brick wall (what are you gonna do? go on strike? lol burn jita? ) i would go with the option that seems the most egalitarian of the lot. And by far Pokey's is the best one. @Pokey, With the "fuel" needed to keep the shield up and reduce the attack window, how about having it a sort of resource per day that a daily surplus can be traded out to other districts held by the same corp to keep the other districts shields up? Defend district A, Consecutive wins/ lack of attacks keep the window 1 hr and shield fully charged. Take district B, add surplus to reduce window quicker. Consecutive wins on districts A and B, and if the corp manages to take district C then the surplus from the A & B shorten C's attack window. Since all 3 of the Districs are vulnerable to attack it still requires the manpower and recruits needed to beat off raids 3 serperate hours of the day. Rewards holding a district as well as enabling expansion. Yet, over extend your forces with out the player count to back a corp up, you'll end up losing a district. Raids give 15 min notice, but major invasion fleets give 24hr notice. Basically the difference between a raiding merc warbarge and a large attacking Corp warbarge. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:58:00 - [181] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district My view on raids differs from yours, here's how Raids are a "Zero Warning" activity. What this means is that there is absolutely no warning that the raid is about to happen or is progress unless you have someone actively monitoring your District(s) on the Star Map (or some other new UI related to revamped PC). Raiders can bring a single squad, if other Raiders are encountered on the same District they are treated as though they are red. Defenders can bring up to 16 mercs to defend their District. Defenders are obviously red to all Raiders. Raids would be a simple single Skirmish match, Raiders controlling Letters generates Asset Wealth for the Raiders that they receive in the EoM screen. Defenders need to hold onto the Letters to prevent themselves from hemorrhaging said Asset. If the Defenders don't defend then it will be a quick match ripe with easy loot. Perhaps eventually, there could be other benefits to Raiding that would be directly related to the SI that the Defenders had on the District. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:59:00 - [182] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: "yes" Ok so lets say players are on in 6 hour shifts, 16 players each, 4 shifts a day... are you saying that an alliance needs to have 64 players for every district the alliance owns to properly defend it? pokey i think you are exaggerating a bit, this is still a game when you're writing shifts etc. i am starting to think you're more hardcore gamer then you think you're saying ;) basically if you want to defend it above all cost yes but that is the wrong mind set that i think was hindering our PC community from the beginning we will manage this by in game community deals within the game after initial chaos of district flips and it will not be that hard to manage alliance security, it will IMO spice the end game play for vets make politics more relevant and beside that as you said in earlier post either EU or asia/oceania will not have enough fire power or will to flip constantly or try to after the "dust" sets down we will have open PC game mode w/o restrictions of play time which every player wanted from the beginning we will have tiers of modes set up w/o any more messing within code to change things, there is still going to be an option for a vet to slay newbs but what for if they compete with vets constantly. about the district holds i think the PC game mode should be unforgivable seriously yes 64 to properly defend, if PC will be set up with timer/lock rules the game play will always be stale and stale end game is bad for every end game so yes i think dedication and proper constructed alliance force should be a must to hold ground in PC district owning part easy end game > boring end game (locking) boring end game > stale status (current PC) stale status = not enough of fresh blood (pub stomping out of boredom and locked game play of choice) not enough fresh blood = boring game play (vets leaving the game) Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4455	Posted - 2015.01.21 19:59:00 - [183] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: And by far Pokey's is the best one. @Pokey, With the "fuel" needed to keep the shield up and reduce the attack window, how about having it a sort of resource per day that a daily surplus can be traded out to other districts held by the same corp to keep the other districts shields up? Defend district A, Consecutive wins/ lack of attacks keep the window 1 hr and shield fully charged. Take district B, add surplus to reduce window quicker. Consecutive wins on districts A and B, and if the corp manages to take district C then the surplus from the A & B shorten C's attack window. Hmmmmmmmmm I dunno. I mean the idea is to force players to be on during their timers and I have concerns that corps could stack districts at an odd time and then just zerg a single districts open at a normal time, allowing them to fuel many districts but only really be active for one of them. With some limitations....maybe? I get what you're going for but I'm a little reluctant on being too lenient to be with the fuel distribution. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:01:00 - [184] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that: people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids" as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment? new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only nothing more nothing less PC IS accessible. Especially to smaller groups. EVERYTHING you've advocated for is currently available, EXCEPT the ability to stage district attacks and have them opened on a whim. Be careful what you ask for though, if the existing PC powerhouses have the ability to stage attacks on-the-fly it will be those same smaller groups that will bear the majority of the burden. Theirs will be the districts most profitable to hit. Put it this way- We're all BankRobbers. What banks are most likely to be robbed most often, the occasional large one, with layers of security, located in the center of a metropolitan area OR the tiny podunk countrybanks dotting the countryside? Which banks will more appealing for a robbery by the strongest crews? You want to "open" PC. And I maintain it already is. Is it as easy as forming a squad and searching a PC battle in your battlefinder? No. But why should it be? Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:02:00 - [185] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Zene Ren wrote: raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district My view on raids differs from yours, here's how Raids are a "Zero Warning" activity. What this means is that there is absolutely no warning that the raid is about to happen or is progress unless you have someone actively monitoring your District(s) on the Star Map (or some other new UI related to revamped PC). Raiders can bring a single squad, if other Raiders are encountered on the same District they are treated as though they are red. Defenders can bring up to 16 mercs to defend their District. Defenders are obviously red to all Raiders. Raids would be a simple single Skirmish match, Raiders controlling Letters generates Asset Wealth for the Raiders that they receive in the EoM screen. Defenders need to hold onto the Letters to prevent themselves from hemorrhaging said Asset. If the Defenders don't defend then it will be a quick match ripe with easy loot. Perhaps eventually, there could be other benefits to Raiding that would be directly related to the SI that the Defenders had on the District. this is really nice but it will require a ton of coding when my proposal for start will just set up PC open for all at minimal cost and after that we could try some more elaborate techniques ;) Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:07:00 - [186] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that: people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids" as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment? new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only nothing more nothing less PC IS accessible. Especially to smaller groups. EVERYTHING you've advocated for is currently available, EXCEPT the ability to stage district attacks and have them opened on a whim. Be careful what you ask for though, if the existing PC powerhouses have the ability to stage attacks on-the-fly it will be those same smaller groups that will bear the majority of the burden. Theirs will be the districts most profitable to hit. Put it this way- We're all BankRobbers. What banks are most likely to be robbed most often, the occasional large one, with layers of security, located in the center of a metropolitan area OR the tiny podunk countrybanks dotting the countryside? Which banks will more appealing for a robbery by the strongest crews? You want to "open" PC. And I maintain it already is. Is it as easy as forming a squad and searching a PC battle in your battlefinder? No. But why should it be? Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. yes yes and yes to play PC at whim when we got players with vet status online is the most valued thing in that all and a crucial one it will give vets their home mode to play w/o terrorizing newbies as it is now new eden is and should be a harsh place w/o artificial rules only with in game community set up rules that are still not preventing anyone from trying on the whim because they are online ATM that is the dust i always wanted free from artificial rules like eve is, where only the players communicate and make those rules by power struggle of corps and alliances and pirates, that is what i always thought it would be in dust Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4455	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:08:00 - [187] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: "yes" Ok so lets say players are on in 6 hour shifts, 16 players each, 4 shifts a day... are you saying that an alliance needs to have 64 players for every district the alliance owns to properly defend it? pokey i think you are exaggerating a bit, this is still a game when you're writing shifts etc. i am starting to think you're more hardcore gamer then you think you're saying ;) I've played EVE, I know what it's like to pay $15 a month for the right to work a second job. Thing is you really do need to have people on all the time because literally a single person could wake up at an odd time when your alliance has no one on, and sweep all of your districts. Yes it's an extreme case but extreme cases happen in games like this more often than you may expect. I mean if I knew that there was a 6 hour period where and alliance didnt have sufficient people online, I would take a squad and steal everything they have, every single change I got. Like I don't disagree that people should be able to participate in PC on the fly pretty much any time of day, but the fact of the matter is that if you shift 100% of PC to that model, suddenly it takes very few people to attack but a shitload more to defend. You're basically taking the issue of overly restrictive timers and completely reversing it, but the opposite extreme is just as bad for number of reasons. Thats why I'm pushing for a more hybrid system, seperating Raids vs Conquest so that the Zergs and the Elites can each have a place in the game without totally dominating the field. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:11:00 - [188] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1054	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:12:00 - [189] - Quote Do you people really not get what will happen in planetary conquest if a completely timerless system is implemented? No shows. More and more no shows. Because some people want to play with their friends, make corps with people they actually like playing with, not recruit hundreds and hundreds of players just to make up numbers. Great, fine, let's go with the argument that no one should be allowed to own a district if they can't be on to defend it 24/7. Great for those of you who just see PC as a way to farm resources to give you an edge in pubs, what better way to do that than go and attack a district while its owners are at work, asleep, whatever. No effort, just need to keep different hours than your target. Some of us are in PC because we enjoy playing matches that challenge us. We enjoy putting together a team to try and beat another team, not get thrown against randoms by Scotty. So, fine, let's make PC not about competitive matches, but just about resource farming. Can we then at least get another game mode? Give us back corp battles? Something, for those of us who actually want to play against people and not trade districts back and forth in a series of no shows? Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:13:00 - [190] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Zene Ren wrote: raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district My view on raids differs from yours, here's how Raids are a "Zero Warning" activity. What this means is that there is absolutely no warning that the raid is about to happen or is progress unless you have someone actively monitoring your District(s) on the Star Map (or some other new UI related to revamped PC). Raiders can bring a single squad, if other Raiders are encountered on the same District they are treated as though they are red. Defenders can bring up to 16 mercs to defend their District. Defenders are obviously red to all Raiders. Raids would be a simple single Skirmish match, Raiders controlling Letters generates Asset Wealth for the Raiders that they receive in the EoM screen. Defenders need to hold onto the Letters to prevent themselves from hemorrhaging said Asset. If the Defenders don't defend then it will be a quick match ripe with easy loot. Perhaps eventually, there could be other benefits to Raiding that would be directly related to the SI that the Defenders had on the District. this is really nice but it will require a ton of coding when my proposal for start will just set up PC open for all at minimal cost and after that we could try some more elaborate techniques ;) No, your proposal stages a pubmatch on a PC district. It minimizes your risk potential while maximizing your reward potential. I, for one, look forward to this type of system being integrated so I and my mangy vampire dog horde friends can utilize it for our own profitability AND read through the tearthreads after about a week. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:17:00 - [191] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Zene Ren wrote: raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district My view on raids differs from yours, here's how Raids are a "Zero Warning" activity. What this means is that there is absolutely no warning that the raid is about to happen or is progress unless you have someone actively monitoring your District(s) on the Star Map (or some other new UI related to revamped PC). Raiders can bring a single squad, if other Raiders are encountered on the same District they are treated as though they are red. Defenders can bring up to 16 mercs to defend their District. Defenders are obviously red to all Raiders. Raids would be a simple single Skirmish match, Raiders controlling Letters generates Asset Wealth for the Raiders that they receive in the EoM screen. Defenders need to hold onto the Letters to prevent themselves from hemorrhaging said Asset. If the Defenders don't defend then it will be a quick match ripe with easy loot. Perhaps eventually, there could be other benefits to Raiding that would be directly related to the SI that the Defenders had on the District. this is really nice but it will require a ton of coding when my proposal for start will just set up PC open for all at minimal cost and after that we could try some more elaborate techniques ;) No, your proposal stages a pubmatch on a PC district. It minimizes your risk potential while maximizing your reward potential. I, for one, look forward to this type of system being integrated so I and my mangy vampire dog horde friends can utilize it for our own profitability AND read through the tearthreads after about a week. Funny thing is, the tears will be coming from those who choose to hold Districts, not those raiding them. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:20:00 - [192] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: pokey extreme cases are spicing things up so that boredom is not coming in but pokey you do not need to own a district as you can play a pirate with raids till you build a proper security for owned land but do not prohibit it for others that have time and will to do it freedom of choice because there are some that have this time now and are discouraged by the timers limitation thus limiting our player numbers also it should be opened as possible "suddenly it takes very few people to attack but a shitload more to defend" only when you want to bite more then you can chew solutions in between are always bad "Thats why I'm pushing for a more hybrid system, seperating Raids vs Conquest so that the Zergs and the Elites can each have a place in the game without totally dominating the field." no one will be happy with this we can make flipping a district to require more wins and matches but the timer system is a really bad thing i have nothing against bigger gets more but not when even when he is bigger he is still secured by locks and abusing them thus any hybrid system within this game will also fail Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5780	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:20:00 - [193] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that: people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids" as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment? new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only nothing more nothing less PC IS accessible. Especially to smaller groups. EVERYTHING you've advocated for is currently available, EXCEPT the ability to stage district attacks and have them opened on a whim. Be careful what you ask for though, if the existing PC powerhouses have the ability to stage attacks on-the-fly it will be those same smaller groups that will bear the majority of the burden. Theirs will be the districts most profitable to hit. Put it this way- We're all BankRobbers. What banks are most likely to be robbed most often, the occasional large one, with layers of security, located in the center of a metropolitan area OR the tiny podunk countrybanks dotting the countryside? Which banks will more appealing for a robbery by the strongest crews? You want to "open" PC. And I maintain it already is. Is it as easy as forming a squad and searching a PC battle in your battlefinder? No. But why should it be? Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. PC isn't accessible. The mechanics are on the extreme spectrum as they stand currently. Not only are the mechanics such that only the best of the best can succeed, but there is currently no way to prepare for it other than by participating in PC itself. PC is the most accessible it's ever been currently because there are no rewards for ownership. If the stakes were what they were before passive ISK was removed most of the people holding districts currently would not be on the map. Most of the corps currently in PC are nowhere near ready for battles against veteran PC corps. I think the pendulum has to swing in the favor of quantity over quality for some time while more people are introduced and versed in team play. The only thing that I see that allows for this is the ability for lesser corps to surprise and zerg more powerful corps. If that's through raids or a more favorable timer mechanic then great. If new to PC corps are not allowed some level of success then it's going to fall on it's face. We can either have hardcore mode with dozens of players or we can swing it back to intermediate mode and capture a large portion of our community. As players adapt to a more serious style of gameplay the pendulum could be swung more in the other direction. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7934	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:23:00 - [194] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: You have a ready gang of players who know the old model intimately and are occasionally unnecessarily attached to it. FTFY. :) Is there ever a time you -don't- call bias whenever someone disagrees with you..? Just curious... Zene Ren wrote: there are no rules in null sec man... that is why it is called null sec no timers and locks only community owning particular system amt with man power and time availability so why should we have rules in our null sec our timers and locks?!?! it should be community power struggle not artificial boundaries... Null-sec is nothing but timers and I'm actually really offended by your assertion that it has none. Initiative lost the Second Catch War because we got burnt out from shooting stations and POSes every damn day while AAA came in with Triage Carriers and undid the damage... every day. That's all it was for months until we finally just gave up and went back to high sec because of the gimmicky timer system. We had plenty of momentum, were winning the war by a land-slide using good tactics and strategy, but we eventually lost because no-one likes station bashing and waking up on Thanksgiving morning to go shoot a station that will just get repped as soon as we leave. I know, because I was there. Pokey Dravon wrote: Raiding? Absolutely. Flipping a district? God no. Theres too much riding on the line for Suprise Buttsex PC attacks if they can take your district in the process. Battles that happen on the fly that give a PC similar experience with less riding on the line? Totally cool with that. Agree'd. Kinda dumb to potentially lose everything with no opportunity to bring it back. While I give Eve Online's sov system flak because of the gimmicky mechanics mentioned above, I certainly wouldn't want it to be "Hey we caught you with your pants down, give us everything you own for #reasons". Zene Ren wrote: yes yes and yes to play PC at whim when we got players with vet status online is the most valued thing in that all and a crucial one it will give vets their home mode to play w/o terrorizing newbies as it is now new eden is and should be a harsh place w/o artificial rules only with in game community set up rules that are still not preventing anyone from trying on the whim because they are online ATM that is the dust i always wanted free from artificial rules like eve is, where only the players communicate and make those rules by power struggle of corps and alliances and pirates, that is what i always thought it would be in dust Bearing in mind, of course, that Eve Online is -nothing- but artificial rules. When a certain entity (can't remember which) no-one ever heard of amassed 47+ allied corporations to fight against Goon Swarm and started winning, the CSM and CCP imposed a cost to add allies to a declared war that got exponentially higher (billions of ISK per month at times) depending on how many allies you had. This rule was set because "no-one wanted to be locked into a war" but it had much less to do with it than the fact that they were actually winning against an entity hundreds of times larger than them because they openly invited anyone to participate in their war without making an alliance themselves. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:23:00 - [195] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: hmmm pub match with PC rule set and penalty for defenders if they lose nothing wrong with that competition will be hard, reward will be big enough to run proto in it and it will be always open game mode for vets what do you want more? Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5780	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:24:00 - [196] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7934	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:25:00 - [197] - Quote Linking this proposal that I made a few pages back because there was no feedback given on it and I feel it might have been over-looked over the "Thor, Pokey, and Zene discuss whether or not timers should be a thing". Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 729	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:26:00 - [198] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: And by far Pokey's is the best one. @Pokey, With the "fuel" needed to keep the shield up and reduce the attack window, how about having it a sort of resource per day that a daily surplus can be traded out to other districts held by the same corp to keep the other districts shields up? Defend district A, Consecutive wins/ lack of attacks keep the window 1 hr and shield fully charged. Take district B, add surplus to reduce window quicker. Consecutive wins on districts A and B, and if the corp manages to take district C then the surplus from the A & B shorten C's attack window. Hmmmmmmmmm I dunno. I mean the idea is to force players to be on during their timers and I have concerns that corps could stack districts at an odd time and then just zerg a single districts open at a normal time, allowing them to fuel many districts but only really be active for one of them. With some limitations....maybe? I get what you're going for but I'm a little reluctant on being too lenient to be with the fuel distribution. Give the fuel consumption diminshed returns. Cap on surplus. 1 trade per 24 hrs. Any extra trading of fuel will be removed from home district timer. Fuel will be expended during transport, -25% per transport. e.g 100 units needed for restocking shield window. 100 unit surplus. 75 units from A to B. 50 units from A to C. 25 units from A to D. 0 from A to E. This way you can shore up defenses in times of war. Fuel can be 'raided'. Loss of units means expansion of timer. Districs close by however can benefit and be supported. Districts farther out, not at all and will therefore be more susceptible to raids, just like outer worlds seperated from a home planet. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:27:00 - [199] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Null-sec is nothing but timers and I'm actually really offended by your assertion that it has none. Initiative lost the Second Catch War because we got burnt out from shooting stations and POSes every damn day while AAA came in with Triage Carriers and undid the damage... every day. That's all it was for months until we finally just gave up and went back to high sec because of the gimmicky timer system. We had plenty of momentum, were winning the war by a land-slide using good tactics and strategy, but we eventually lost because no-one likes station bashing and waking up on Thanksgiving morning to go shoot a station that will just get repped as soon as we leave. that is why i dont want any timers in the game we had corp battles we were assured PC will be corp battles 2.0 but with timers of any kind it is impossible... Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5780	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:30:00 - [200] - Quote Just to clarify things on what I think is going on. Current PC groups want: the same but with more ISK Soraya: Doesn't want it to be the same, but wants to keep 24 notice of battles. Adding some bells and whistles, thinks things will change. Random Dudes with no PC experience want: PS2 Is this about right? I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5780	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:37:00 - [201] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Linking this proposal that I made a few pages back because there was no feedback given on it and I feel it might have been over-looked over the "Thor, Pokey, and Zene discuss whether or not timers should be a thing". Pokey has proposed something similar. I don't like the 24 hour notice. I guess I don't see much of a difference if an active PC corp is on during their prime time handling battles that happen that instant or if they are fighting battles initiated the day before. I think the biggest difference is that you'd have to have more people in your PC chat ready to go that instant vs making arrangements with people to be there the next day. My scenario seems to be the one more likely to cause current PC corps to recruit and train more players. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:38:00 - [202] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Just to clarify things on what I think is going on. Current PC groups want: the same but with more ISK Soraya: Doesn't want it to be the same, but wants to keep 24 notice of battles. Adding some bells and whistles, thinks things will change. Random Dudes with no PC experience want: PS2 Is this about right? this char is closed beta char, yeah still random for community though been playing in and out through the time the game is on thus i have ideas coming from participation in few PC matches when i was still in tritan industries back in the day within new eden it will not be PS2 or something similar when you build right infrastructure for defense you will not lose your land the possibility will be there it wont be instant gratification though just a ton of communication and socializing while building proper security alliance this will also prevent of over biting more land then you can chew as the ingame community will verify your ability to defend not some timers or locks and it will be constant open game mode for vets, when they leave newbies terror in pubs or semi vets in FW maybe our community will grow more w/o to much coding win win win Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4457	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:38:00 - [203] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: "suddenly it takes very few people to attack but a shitload more to defend" only when you want to bite more then you can chew No, it will take multiple teams of 16 to defend a district, but only one team to attack it. Owning a single district would mean it takes more defenders than it takes attackers. Zene Ren wrote: solutions in between are always bad "Thats why I'm pushing for a more hybrid system, seperating Raids vs Conquest so that the Zergs and the Elites can each have a place in the game without totally dominating the field." no one will be happy with this In a true compromise, no one is 100% happy. If you're not interested in working towards a compromise, then there is really no reason to continue debating. In the end the only person I need to convince has a blue tag next to his name. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:44:00 - [204] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: No, it will take multiple teams of 16 to defend a district, but only one team to attack it. Owning a single district would mean it takes more defenders than it takes attackers. i never said that when a district is attacked ATM some one else can attack it in the same time that is over interpretation from your side attackers should be queued for the fight for the attacked district Pokey Dravon wrote: In a true compromise, no one is 100% happy. If you're not interested in working towards a compromise, then there is really no reason to continue debating. In the end the only person I need to convince has a blue tag next to his name. again over interpretation P. never said i am not interested but a compromise with any form of timers will be staying at status quo Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4457	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:45:00 - [205] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: No, it will take multiple teams of 16 to defend a district, but only one team to attack it. Owning a single district would mean it takes more defenders than it takes attackers. i never said that when a district is attacked ATM some one else can attack it in the same time that is over interpretation from your side attackers should be queued for the fight for the attacked district It will take multiple teams of 16 to cover the defense of the district over a 24 hour period. Thus it will take more than 16 unique players to be available to defend the district. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7935	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:45:00 - [206] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: that is why i dont want any timers in the game we had corp battles we were assured PC will be corp battles 2.0 but with timers of any kind it is impossible... Thor Odinson42 wrote: Pokey has proposed something similar. I don't like the 24 hour notice. I guess I don't see much of a difference if an active PC corp is on during their prime time handling battles that happen that instant or if they are fighting battles initiated the day before. I think the biggest difference is that you'd have to have more people in your PC chat ready to go that instant vs making arrangements with people to be there the next day. My scenario seems to be the one more likely to cause current PC corps to recruit and train more players. Doesn't even have to be a 24 hour notice. If memory serves, Eve Online does it based on the amount of Stront in the POS at the time. Could be anywhere from 12 - 36 hours. It wouldn't make too much of a difference either way, honestly. When you have a six (6) hour window to attack a larger corporation, they're expected to have the player-base associated to defend that six (6) hour window, regardless of the notice. The system proposed is more along the lines of a timer with less strict controls as to when you decide the fight takes place and there's a lot of ways that can be tweaked. I think it'd go a long way to being a happy medium between having timers and not having timers, especially if the notice given was variable depending on the size of the corporation as well. Essentially stating that: More players in corp = Larger attack window /// Less notice. Because, as stated, if you have a large territory you should be expected to have the people to defend it. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Flyingconejo Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1144	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:50:00 - [207] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Flyingconejo wrote: snip I'd argue that the current timer mechanics are the number one reason why PC is played by so few. There is no element of surprise. No need to argue, because I agree. I'm not sure it was the main reason, but it surely was important. The current timer mechanic was designed to allow small groups of players to defend a high number of districts. Just to make sure they did not get burn out, CCP graciously extended the grace period before the battle an extra 24 hours, which made it even easier. Of course, that made 90% of the potential pc players completely irrelevant, so they left. But what I meant saying that timers don't matter is that I don't think it matters what you do with them now. No timers, window timers or current timers, I don't see that affecting PC population in a positive way. The gap is too big. Quote: In war a lesser enemy can overcome a stronger opponent if they time their attack right in an advantageous location. We can't really set ambushes in advantageous geological locations, but an element of surprise could and should be implemented. The details are the problem. People have been hung up on far reaching complexities and it appears we will get stuck with timer mechanics that only favor a Zerg. English is not my main language, so I apologize if I understood the following wrong. From what I've read of you the last couple of years, you have always been in favour of removing partially or totally the "grace period" a defending corp has between the attack has been launched and the battle actually happens. I think this is what you refer to with the element of surprise part. So basically, you would be in favour of removing the wait between the attack and the battle, but maintaining the timer. From what I've read in this thread, you probably would agree with a "window timer" option or consider it at least the less bad option, right? But in the second part, you seem to dislike a system that would allow an attacker to attack multiple districts at the same time by zerging them. But window timers would made zerging much easier for an attacking corp. They would stack 3-4 district at the same hour. And as for removing the "grace period", it would have been a great idea a year ago, but with the current populations, I think it also would allow the attacking corp to zerg easily. After all, they know when they are going to attack, but for the defender...How many corps/alliances are left that can form up a full 16 team within 1 hour? And 2 teams? I'm afraid that the best system against a "zerg" kind of attack, is actually the current timer system that the game has now. It was actually designed as an anti-zerg mechanic. The moment a system allows for a surprise attack, or to choose even slightly the time for the attack, it opens the door for zerging. On topic: PC is broken, and can't be mended. The best you can do is: Step 1: Bring back the old corp battle system. Tweak it for 16vs16, almost no rewards. An intermediate place to prepare for PC. Step 2: Districts should give something, so owners have a reason to care about them, and give new corps a reason to move from corp battles to PC.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:50:00 - [208] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: No, it will take multiple teams of 16 to defend a district, but only one team to attack it. Owning a single district would mean it takes more defenders than it takes attackers. i never said that when a district is attacked ATM some one else can attack it in the same time that is over interpretation from your side attackers should be queued for the fight for the attacked district It will take multiple teams of 16 to cover the defense of the district over a 24 hour period. Thus it will take more than 16 unique players to be available to defend the district. this will only encourage to build bigger alliances nothing more IMO you do not need every defender to be a "pro gamer" also as there will be not only pro gamers attacking ;) and i've edited my last post also but i will add here that i am not against compromise only that i am against any form of timers for a veteran players game more that will hinder an accessibility to that mode and that will lead again to proto stomping pubs from boredom etc. etc. Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:51:00 - [209] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. Any "Ownership" system will be paintable as a "Tournament Ladder". Any " Evolution" that could be even remotely considered an "evolution" needs a change NOT in PC timers but in the PC GAMEMODE. Are you tired of seeing the same 16 ringers? Maybe, just maybe, coordinate an attack (like a raid must have a defense coordinated, just spur of the moment) so that any of those terrible ringers are committed there and not available elsewhere. "Status Quo" currently has PC fully active for those not so busy crying about how PC sucks they actually play PC. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1505	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:53:00 - [210] - Quote Here's my opinion on the matter. My dust experience (if it matters) includes being in beta since June 2012 and participating in PC extensively since Day 1. I like the idea of timer windows +- X amount of hours each way. You set the timer yourself but if you have overlapping timer windows your corp gets taxed by CONCORD X amount of ISK. The amount of ISK will multiply as more timer windows overlap. The attacker can then choose which timer to attack within the window like it is now with the 24 hour notice. This is for district ownership battles, raids I'm still undecided but like the idea of roaming around with the crew making ISK from instant battles.

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1027	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:54:00 - [211] - Quote Personally, I support a timer window of +/- x hours and the removal of the 24/48 hours time till battle. IMO, battles should start 1 hour after the attack is launch if it falls within the timer window, otherwise the battle starts at the start of the next attack window. Battle start time should NOT be random. It should be set to exactly 1 hour after the attack (rounded to 5 mins increments say). Overlord of Broman
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:56:00 - [212] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Zene Ren wrote: raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district My view on raids differs from yours, here's how Raids are a "Zero Warning" activity. What this means is that there is absolutely no warning that the raid is about to happen or is progress unless you have someone actively monitoring your District(s) on the Star Map (or some other new UI related to revamped PC). Raiders can bring a single squad, if other Raiders are encountered on the same District they are treated as though they are red. Defenders can bring up to 16 mercs to defend their District. Defenders are obviously red to all Raiders. Raids would be a simple single Skirmish match, Raiders controlling Letters generates Asset Wealth for the Raiders that they receive in the EoM screen. Defenders need to hold onto the Letters to prevent themselves from hemorrhaging said Asset. If the Defenders don't defend then it will be a quick match ripe with easy loot. Perhaps eventually, there could be other benefits to Raiding that would be directly related to the SI that the Defenders had on the District. this is really nice but it will require a ton of coding when my proposal for start will just set up PC open for all at minimal cost and after that we could try some more elaborate techniques ;) No, your proposal stages a pubmatch on a PC district. It minimizes your risk potential while maximizing your reward potential. I, for one, look forward to this type of system being integrated so I and my mangy vampire dog horde friends can utilize it for our own profitability AND read through the tearthreads after about a week. Funny thing is, the tears will be coming from those who choose to hold Districts, not those raiding them. Yeah, you think. Until, of course, noone holds districts since they're susceptible to constant petty crime and then since no one holds them they don't generate anything of value and become subsequently worthless for raiding. #QQAdvocatingAgainstYourOwnInterests Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7936	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:57:00 - [213] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Personally, I support a timer window of +/- x hours and the removal of the 24/48 hours time till battle. IMO, battles should start 1 hour after the attack is launch if it falls within the timer window, otherwise the battle starts at the start of the next attack window. Battle start time should NOT be random. It should be set to exactly 1 hour after the attack (rounded to 5 mins increments say). Eh, maybe. Usually takes an hour to round everyone up and get everyone oriented to squads and what not. I'm not entirely against it but I think there should be a little more time so the defenders can actually bat-phone some people who aren't online, if necessary, rather than being completely screwed. 24 hours is excessive but 1 hour isn't nearly enough. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4458	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:58:00 - [214] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: No, it will take multiple teams of 16 to defend a district, but only one team to attack it. Owning a single district would mean it takes more defenders than it takes attackers. i never said that when a district is attacked ATM some one else can attack it in the same time that is over interpretation from your side attackers should be queued for the fight for the attacked district It will take multiple teams of 16 to cover the defense of the district over a 24 hour period. Thus it will take more than 16 unique players to be available to defend the district. this will only encourage to build bigger alliances nothing more IMO you do not need every defender to be a "pro gamer" also as there will be not only pro gamers attacking ;) and i've edited my last post also but i will add here that i am not against compromise only that i am against any form of timers for a veteran players game more that will hinder an accessibility to that mode and that will lead again to proto stomping pubs from boredom etc. etc. Bigger alliances like the ones that dominate Null in EVE? lol. Super Corps and Alliances are something that should always be avoided. Granular groups leads to more combat, large groups lead to stagnation. Heres what I don't get about your argument is that I offer up "Here, Raids will give you exactly what you're asking for, the ability for vets to jump into a PC pretty much whenever they want, the only thing they can't do is capture whenever they want." but you come back with "Nope if they can't capture then they'll just go back to stomping pubs" even though they're getting the PC battles you're asking for, the only difference is the end condition of the district. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1029	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:59:00 - [215] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Personally, I support a timer window of +/- x hours and the removal of the 24/48 hours time till battle. IMO, battles should start 1 hour after the attack is launch if it falls within the timer window, otherwise the battle starts at the start of the next attack window. Battle start time should NOT be random. It should be set to exactly 1 hour after the attack (rounded to 5 mins increments say). Eh, maybe. Usually takes an hour to round everyone up and get everyone oriented to squads and what not. I'm not entirely against it but I think there should be a little more time so the defenders can actually bat-phone some people who aren't online, if necessary, rather than being completely screwed. 24 hours is excessive but 1 hour isn't nearly enough. So an hour is my personal preference and that could be tweaked, or maybe a district could be upgraded to slightly increase the amount of time you have. However, the current 24/48 hour system is way to big a notice. You should be able to look at your corp, get 16 guys together and say lets to a PC battle tonight. Not wait till the next day and find out that your missing some roles. Overlord of Broman
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5781	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:59:00 - [216] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. Any "Ownership" system will be paintable as a "Tournament Ladder". Any " Evolution" that could be even remotely considered an "evolution" needs a change NOT in PC timers but in the PC GAMEMODE. Are you tired of seeing the same 16 ringers? Maybe, just maybe, coordinate an attack (like a raid must have a defense coordinated, just spur of the moment) so that any of those terrible ringers are committed there and not available elsewhere. "Status Quo" currently has PC fully active for those not so busy crying about how PC sucks they actually play PC. Currently PC is able to be participated in by newer corps because veteran PC corps let them. I don't think the mechanics should be kept such a way that we have wars started because one corp got in trouble for taking a corporation's last district. I assume you are saying that you believe the FEC style coalitions where billions of ISK is spent mass attacking resulting in little or no territorial gains is the way for new PC corps to break into PC? I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:04:00 - [217] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Heres what I don't get about your argument is that I offer up "Here, Raids will give you exactly what you're asking for, the ability for vets to jump into a PC pretty much whenever they want, the only thing they can't do is capture whenever they want." but you come back with "Nope if they can't capture then they'll just go back to stomping pubs" even though they're getting the PC battles you're asking for, the only difference is the end condition of the district. this will only lead to abusing any form of timers and locks by land owners again as it is now, limiting accessibility and motion in MH, thus i seriously do not want timers. we had this till now big guys will be untouchable as they are now... Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5781	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:06:00 - [218] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Personally, I support a timer window of +/- x hours and the removal of the 24/48 hours time till battle. IMO, battles should start 1 hour after the attack is launch if it falls within the timer window, otherwise the battle starts at the start of the next attack window. Battle start time should NOT be random. It should be set to exactly 1 hour after the attack (rounded to 5 mins increments say). Eh, maybe. Usually takes an hour to round everyone up and get everyone oriented to squads and what not. I'm not entirely against it but I think there should be a little more time so the defenders can actually bat-phone some people who aren't online, if necessary, rather than being completely screwed. 24 hours is excessive but 1 hour isn't nearly enough. So an hour is my personal preference and that could be tweaked, or maybe a district could be upgraded to slightly increase the amount of time you have. However, the current 24/48 hour system is way to big a notice. You should be able to look at your corp, get 16 guys together and say lets to a PC battle tonight. Not wait till the next day and find out that your missing some roles. Or to find out that the corp you were fighting has hired the #1 merc corp. People dismiss this, but when the ISK was flowing this is the way it happened. You've got a couple corps out there that started from the bottom and earned their way into relevance, but most of those have made enough connections to ensure they have access to top tier ringers as well. Ringers are a great part of Dust, but 24 notice allows for their wallets to swell and usually nobody else. It'll take a window timer with immediate attacks or a complex raiding system that discourages small groups from holding too much land. To me I think they should start with a window timer that is affected by activity, size, or whatever and have the battles start soon after an attack is initiated. As they develop a raiding system they can tweak the timers. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4458	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:11:00 - [219] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Heres what I don't get about your argument is that I offer up "Here, Raids will give you exactly what you're asking for, the ability for vets to jump into a PC pretty much whenever they want, the only thing they can't do is capture whenever they want." but you come back with "Nope if they can't capture then they'll just go back to stomping pubs" even though they're getting the PC battles you're asking for, the only difference is the end condition of the district. this will only lead to abusing any form of timers and locks by land owners again as it is now, limiting accessibility and motion in MH, thus i seriously do not want timers. we had this till now big guys will be untouchable as they are now... Um zerging their districts and stealing all of their profits is hardly "untouchable". And what exactly are you getting at with "Locking"? Do you mean moving them to an undesirable time slot? Or are you talking about self attacking to lock? I've already proposed a solution to the first and there is a thread discussing how to prevent the latter. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1030	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:12:00 - [220] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Personally, I support a timer window of +/- x hours and the removal of the 24/48 hours time till battle. IMO, battles should start 1 hour after the attack is launch if it falls within the timer window, otherwise the battle starts at the start of the next attack window. Battle start time should NOT be random. It should be set to exactly 1 hour after the attack (rounded to 5 mins increments say). Eh, maybe. Usually takes an hour to round everyone up and get everyone oriented to squads and what not. I'm not entirely against it but I think there should be a little more time so the defenders can actually bat-phone some people who aren't online, if necessary, rather than being completely screwed. 24 hours is excessive but 1 hour isn't nearly enough. So an hour is my personal preference and that could be tweaked, or maybe a district could be upgraded to slightly increase the amount of time you have. However, the current 24/48 hour system is way to big a notice. You should be able to look at your corp, get 16 guys together and say lets to a PC battle tonight. Not wait till the next day and find out that your missing some roles. Or to find out that the corp you were fighting has hired the #1 merc corp. People dismiss this, but when the ISK was flowing this is the way it happened. You've got a couple corps out there that started from the bottom and earned their way into relevance, but most of those have made enough connections to ensure they have access to top tier ringers as well. Ringers are a great part of Dust, but 24 notice allows for their wallets to swell and usually nobody else. It'll take a window timer with immediate attacks or a complex raiding system that discourages small groups from holding too much land. To me I think they should start with a window timer that is affected by activity, size, or whatever and have the battles start soon after an attack is initiated. As they develop a raiding system they can tweak the timers. Absolutely, i didn't list it, but ringers are a big issue we've all seen if you've been in PC. With a smaller notice it will be more likely you'll face who you attack (to some degree). The changes i support will go a fair way IMO to fixing things while requiring the minimal amount of coding. Overlord of Broman

Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7936	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:13:00 - [221] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Personally, I support a timer window of +/- x hours and the removal of the 24/48 hours time till battle. IMO, battles should start 1 hour after the attack is launch if it falls within the timer window, otherwise the battle starts at the start of the next attack window. Battle start time should NOT be random. It should be set to exactly 1 hour after the attack (rounded to 5 mins increments say). Eh, maybe. Usually takes an hour to round everyone up and get everyone oriented to squads and what not. I'm not entirely against it but I think there should be a little more time so the defenders can actually bat-phone some people who aren't online, if necessary, rather than being completely screwed. 24 hours is excessive but 1 hour isn't nearly enough. So an hour is my personal preference and that could be tweaked, or maybe a district could be upgraded to slightly increase the amount of time you have. However, the current 24/48 hour system is way to big a notice. You should be able to look at your corp, get 16 guys together and say lets to a PC battle tonight. Not wait till the next day and find out that your missing some roles. Or to find out that the corp you were fighting has hired the #1 merc corp. People dismiss this, but when the ISK was flowing this is the way it happened. You've got a couple corps out there that started from the bottom and earned their way into relevance, but most of those have made enough connections to ensure they have access to top tier ringers as well. Ringers are a great part of Dust, but 24 notice allows for their wallets to swell and usually nobody else. It'll take a window timer with immediate attacks or a complex raiding system that discourages small groups from holding too much land. To me I think they should start with a window timer that is affected by activity, size, or whatever and have the battles start soon after an attack is initiated. As they develop a raiding system they can tweak the timers. Right right. I think this is a step in the right direction honestly. Another factor I'd like to see is: Larger the Stakes = Larger the Notice. If you're sending six (6) guys to just cause a ruckus but not actually take anything, I'm totally cool with a one (1) hour timer. Ten (10) guys to cause even more of a ruckus but nothing permanent? Eh, four (4) or six (6) hours couldn't hurt. But if you're sending a full team to try and secure a district take over - full on invasion sort of stuff - the enemy team needs more time to prepare. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1030	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:14:00 - [222] - Quote Exact specifics aside of how it is implemented, i think the three key items are: Short time from attack to battles. Knowing the exact battle start time when you launch the attack. Slightly larger attack windows to compensate for timezone differences. Overlord of Broman
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 812	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:15:00 - [223] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Yes! Reverend Rattati tell them! Preach the truth! Everyone lay down your heathen timers! Embrace the sandbox!
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1030	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:15:00 - [224] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Exact specifics aside of how it is implemented, i think the three key items are: Short time from attack to battles. Knowing the exact battle start time when you launch the attack. Slightly larger attack windows to compensate for timezone differences. Dang, make that 4 points. Get rid of EVE OB's. It grants to big of an advantage and their is not enough integrations between the games to allow the majority of corps to get EVE support. Overlord of Broman
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7936	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:16:00 - [225] - Quote This isn't to say that size of the corporation couldn't impact it as well. Consider, if you will: Sixteen (16) man team attacks a large corporation that has fifteen (15) districts. They can attack within a six (6) hour window and when they do, the defending corporation gets four (-4) less hours of notice from the twelve (12) they would originally have due to their large territory size. So, at this point, they're sitting at eight (8) hours of notice. Due to the fact that they are trying to take it over, however, the defending team gets two (+2) additional hours of notice because the stakes are extremely high and they could potentially lose the district if the attackers fight hard enough. Making their notice ten (10) hours, total. Just as an example, but there are a lot of factors that can be put in to make the game fair for both teams. A raiding party of six (6) people could even -REDUCE- the notice because the stakes aren't very high, they're just trying to get ISK and Salvage afterall. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:26:00 - [226] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: hmmm pub match with PC rule set and penalty for defenders if they lose nothing wrong with that competition will be hard, reward will be big enough to run proto in it and it will be always open game mode for vets what do you want more? LOL I'm curious what you're talking about with, "PC rule set"? And a penalty for defenders if they lose? But no penalty for attackers when they lose? Exemplify my statement about what I said about this being all about minimizing risk while maximizing reward more. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Avallo Kantor SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 430	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:29:00 - [227] - Quote If we are just talking about changing how timers work, why don't we set up something that is relatively straight forward to understand: An attacking force may declare an attack at -any- time (short of the period right around downtime). The Battle will become available in the next 24 hours after that initial attack time. The defender may then, up until 2 hours prior to the match, extend the timer (via ISK / Stronium Resource) for a full 3(?) hours past that initial attack (again, accounting for down time) OR may extend the timer by 21 - 23 hours [aka: up to 3 hours before the initial attack time, but with an extra days warning, to give both sides a fair shake] Like Rattati's E proposal, each hour that they delay it by costs increasingly more. (For the purposes of extending it to the next day, they only count in relation to distance from the attack hour) To counterbalance the possibility of attackers trying to hit at "odd times" so that defenders are forced to push it to a reasonable one, the attacking team must show up in a full team or the defender is reimbursed for it's payment to move the timer. Overall the idea is that the attackers have some degree of flexibility in the offense, and it's on the odus of the defense to protect it's districts, perhaps at unfavorable times. This idea also assumes that the defending a district is a more lucrative option than simply attacking, to explain why the attacker is given the advantage in initiating the attack.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:33:00 - [228] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Heres what I don't get about your argument is that I offer up "Here, Raids will give you exactly what you're asking for, the ability for vets to jump into a PC pretty much whenever they want, the only thing they can't do is capture whenever they want." but you come back with "Nope if they can't capture then they'll just go back to stomping pubs" even though they're getting the PC battles you're asking for, the only difference is the end condition of the district. this will only lead to abusing any form of timers and locks by land owners again as it is now, limiting accessibility and motion in MH, thus i seriously do not want timers. we had this till now big guys will be untouchable as they are now... Um zerging their districts and stealing all of their profits is hardly "untouchable". And what exactly are you getting at with "Locking"? Do you mean moving them to an undesirable time slot? Or are you talking about self attacking to lock? I've already proposed a solution to the first and there is a thread discussing how to prevent the latter. alt corps, region time zone locking there are and will always be people that abuse timer system in their favor and seriously it will leave us in the place that we are now, all in all timers are bad and the argument about PS2 is not that valid as people claim to be we can now build mulit time zone alliances within the game to keep our land w/o the need to leave it unguarded we have one server and one community and we should have one end game mode for vet players that want to do PC only i seriously need to repeat myself ;( having timers will and are leading to vets playing in pub matches because they can not do PC at any given moment solutions like the fuel and other for the latter thing you mentioned plus a solution for pub proto stompers and q syncs are only a band aid for PC that is available 24/7 seriously so many proplem dealt with one solution, no timers Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:36:00 - [229] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: hmmm pub match with PC rule set and penalty for defenders if they lose nothing wrong with that competition will be hard, reward will be big enough to run proto in it and it will be always open game mode for vets what do you want more? LOL I'm curious what you're talking about with, "PC rule set"? And a penalty for defenders if they lose? But no penalty for attackers when they lose? Exemplify my statement about what I said about this being all about minimizing risk while maximizing reward more. lol man seriously no comment... penalty for attackers that fail: 0 pay, nada, non only costs for lost suits penalty for defenders when they fail smaller dwindled or halted isk or any other district generated resource PC rule set, you do not understand even that? FF on and only vets on the other side what do you want more? Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4462	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:00:00 - [230] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Heres what I don't get about your argument is that I offer up "Here, Raids will give you exactly what you're asking for, the ability for vets to jump into a PC pretty much whenever they want, the only thing they can't do is capture whenever they want." but you come back with "Nope if they can't capture then they'll just go back to stomping pubs" even though they're getting the PC battles you're asking for, the only difference is the end condition of the district. this will only lead to abusing any form of timers and locks by land owners again as it is now, limiting accessibility and motion in MH, thus i seriously do not want timers. we had this till now big guys will be untouchable as they are now... Um zerging their districts and stealing all of their profits is hardly "untouchable". And what exactly are you getting at with "Locking"? Do you mean moving them to an undesirable time slot? Or are you talking about self attacking to lock? I've already proposed a solution to the first and there is a thread discussing how to prevent the latter. alt corps, region time zone locking there are and will always be people that abuse timer system in their favor and seriously it will leave us in the place that we are now, all in all timers are bad and the argument about PS2 is not that valid as people claim to be we can now build mulit time zone alliances within the game to keep our land w/o the need to leave it unguarded we have one server and one community and we should have one end game mode for vet players that want to do PC only i seriously need to repeat myself ;( having timers will and are leading to vets playing in pub matches because they can not do PC at any given moment solutions like the fuel and other for the latter thing you mentioned plus a solution for pub proto stompers and q syncs are only a band aid for PC PC that is available 24/7 will deal seriously with so many problems with one solution, no timers A raid is PC. I can be done at any given moment. The only difference is that they cant steal a district by default at some god awful hour. Raiding encourages alliance to have 24 hour patrol, but doesn't make it a complete necessity. I mean honestly would you be fine If I solo flipped all of your alliance's districts by doing it in a time slot where you don't have people on? Are you REALLY ok with that mechanic? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1055	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:03:00 - [231] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. This very response proves you have not been paying very much attention. And by your tone, one can only assume you really aren't that interested in rectifying that anyway. There is no "PC lobby" to present a "collective proposal"... There are players who have opinions, based on experiences in game. Different players have different opinions, there is no one agreed upon proposal all current and past PC players can give you wrapped in a neat, easily digestible package. Your attitude seems basically the same as Soraya's in this matter, which saddens me. Please try to understand this: just because someone doesn't think your proposal is good, and points out what they concider its flaws, it doesn't mean they think the current system is awesome, either. It has already been estalished that change is needed, that was established among most PC players ages ago. We are not discussing maintaining the present state as an option, so why pretend that anyone who critises a specific proposal is doing it just to protect the status quo? Many of us have already chimed in to say that Pokey's proposal is pretty much closest to an actually working proposal we have encountered. Others have chimed in to disagree. I personally don't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel, when someone has already done the work. Though, I do see a critical flaw in Pokey's proposal, which is why it quite likelly never make it very far. It would require some effort from the developers A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Many alternative suggestions have been proposed, some of them bad, some of them less bad, almost all of them better than region locking in my opinion. The only thing worse than region locking is removing timers entirely, my reasons for thinking so are explained earlier in this thread. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:05:00 - [232] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: A raid is PC. I can be done at any given moment. The only difference is that they cant steal a district by default at some god awful hour. Raiding encourages alliance to have 24 hour patrol, but doesn't make it a complete necessity. I mean honestly would you be fine If I solo flipped all of your alliance's districts by doing it in a time slot where you don't have people on? Are you REALLY ok with that mechanic? i seriously do not understand how can you be so hesitant to try and build after some time of chaos and district flipping a proper security multi time zone alliance this is seriously strange IMO we have one server one universe why lock players behind timers in the game with that core system is really beyond me Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4462	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:09:00 - [233] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Many of us have already chimed in to say that Pokey's proposal is pretty much closest to an actually working proposal we have encountered. Others have chimed in to disagree. I personally don't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel, when someone has already done the work. Though, I do see a critical flaw in Pokey's proposal, which is why it quite likelly never make it very far. It would require some effort from the developers cries It was a rough cut, don't hate me! In all honesty, I unfortunately do no get paid to do this stuff and I have a lot of projects on my plate on top of my actual job and life. I by no means think my idea is perfect and I think I even said it needs like.....a shitload of polish, but constructive criticism is appreciated If anything I'm just trying to produce very rough ideas for the Developers to run with, you know? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4462	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:13:00 - [234] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: A raid is PC. I can be done at any given moment. The only difference is that they cant steal a district by default at some god awful hour. Raiding encourages alliance to have 24 hour patrol, but doesn't make it a complete necessity. I mean honestly would you be fine If I solo flipped all of your alliance's districts by doing it in a time slot where you don't have people on? Are you REALLY ok with that mechanic? i seriously do not understand how can you be so hesitant to try and build after some time of chaos and district flipping a proper security multi time zone alliance this is seriously strange IMO we have one server one universe why lock players behind timers in the game with that core system is really beyond me just leave it all to the in game community and let PC crown have their PC constantly... And again, to avoid the situation I described, you would need people online, 24/7. We're talking 48-64 players for every single district an alliance owns. There's what....245 districts or so? So in order for all alliances to properly defend 24/7 you would need 11,760-15,680 players playing PC actively every day for 6-8 hours a day. We do not have the player count to support that kind of system no matter how you try to justify its existence. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:15:00 - [235] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that: people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids" as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment? new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only nothing more nothing less PC IS accessible. Especially to smaller groups. EVERYTHING you've advocated for is currently available, EXCEPT the ability to stage district attacks and have them opened on a whim. Be careful what you ask for though, if the existing PC powerhouses have the ability to stage attacks on-the-fly it will be those same smaller groups that will bear the majority of the burden. Theirs will be the districts most profitable to hit. Put it this way- We're all BankRobbers. What banks are most likely to be robbed most often, the occasional large one, with layers of security, located in the center of a metropolitan area OR the tiny podunk countrybanks dotting the countryside? Which banks will more appealing for a robbery by the strongest crews? You want to "open" PC. And I maintain it already is. Is it as easy as forming a squad and searching a PC battle in your battlefinder? No. But why should it be? Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. PC isn't accessible. The mechanics are on the extreme spectrum as they stand currently. Not only are the mechanics such that only the best of the best can succeed, but there is currently no way to prepare for it other than by participating in PC itself. PC is the most accessible it's ever been currently because there are no rewards for ownership. If the stakes were what they were before passive ISK was removed most of the people holding districts currently would not be on the map. Most of the corps currently in PC are nowhere near ready for battles against veteran PC corps. I think the pendulum has to swing in the favor of quantity over quality for some time while more people are introduced and versed in team play. The only thing that I see that allows for this is the ability for lesser corps to surprise and zerg more powerful corps. If that's through raids or a more favorable timer mechanic then great. If new to PC corps are not allowed some level of success then it's going to fall on it's face. We can either have hardcore mode with dozens of players or we can swing it back to intermediate mode and capture a large portion of our community. As players adapt to a more serious style of gameplay the pendulum could be swung more in the other direction. While I can agree there needs to be conditions to create an uptick of quantity to dilute the quality in exchange is a major error. From my perspective, the only reason people aren't better versed in teamplay isn't anything to do with timers or "elites" and everything to do with an unwillingness to use what we already have readily available to achieve the goals created. Pubs, as they are, are the free-for-all people want PC to be. Instant battle, no thinking, launch and go. Pubs, as they should be, would be the place that an individual goes to train their aim (bush) their area control (Dom) and finally organized map control ( skirm). None of this neccessitates any changes to Pubs whatsoever except for the mentality of the people going in. Instead of, oh yeah I need isk so Ima gonna protostomp me some bush, hurrdurr! it'd be Well, we want to attack a known competitive force in PC so we better train like crazy in skirms and when we're ready to dress rehearse we launch in FW and after we're confident enough in our ability to have a plan and execute it we'll launch in PC. Winner take all. Yes, districts are free. This is NOT synonymous with value-less. Districts still generate clones, which is the "currency" of attacks. A corp can buy a clonepack and send attacks, or have a couple districts generating the clones that they attack with. Does a district generate free isk? Nope, and they haven't for a while. But they save isk when attacking, and as the old adage goes, isk saved is isk earned. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5495	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:17:00 - [236] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Zaria, here's my problem with this: Nobody can tell me why it's not a good solution, other than it's different from what we have now, and people are resistant to change. Arguments like "taking away choice" or "violating the sandbox" are generally invalid, because games are built on limits, and if a function is not assisting gameplay, it needs to die. I've heard ONE good argument against locking down timer changes, and that's the potential for it to interfere with the "location matters" goal, but that's likely not to be an immediate issue anyways. And if we turn changing timers off, we can still turn it back on later, when the mode is developed further. So even if this did become a problem, I'd be inclined to lock it down for now, and iterate on it, and reopen the capability later. Loss aversion is a huge psychological thing. People are very resistant to losing things or options, even if the alternative is actually better. It's a human nature thing. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 41	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:35:00 - [237] - Quote Here is my solution to all the complaints about the timers being absent from raiding: A. Stop being scared about fighting for what you want, this is a war game, not Farmville. We interact with other corps through fighting. B. Make it so that materials are fought back and forth over by corps (This happens in PC today) Corp A attacks Corp B Corp B wins and for vengence strikes back against Corp A Corp B takes Corp A's district - Profit? C. Make raiding require in game fighting against randoms hired by the corp (Pub contracts or other alliance members) You hire your protectors for when you are gone from your profits. D. Realize that the biggest problem with holding land is that, YOU ARE HOLD LAND! This is a finite item that will be hard but valuable to hold. Expect everyone and their dog, to try and take it from you. That is a reason to keep fighting, like daily missions, you have to log in and fight to reclaim, almost everyday to hold it. "Wait their are people in our district fighting. Guess I need to go defend myself again." (Solo player goes in and proto stomps raiders because he is that good) "Hey they kicked us out of our district, lets go take it back. Now lets smash up their warbarge so they can't hit us again tomorrow. (Proceed to raid them til they are harmless. Wow, that was a lot of fighting.)" See, lots of options. Just unclench and be constructive. Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:50:00 - [238] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: hmmm pub match with PC rule set and penalty for defenders if they lose nothing wrong with that competition will be hard, reward will be big enough to run proto in it and it will be always open game mode for vets what do you want more? LOL I'm curious what you're talking about with, "PC rule set"? And a penalty for defenders if they lose? But no penalty for attackers when they lose? Exemplify my statement about what I said about this being all about minimizing risk while maximizing reward more. lol man seriously no comment... penalty for attackers that fail: 0 pay, nada, non only costs for lost suits penalty for defenders when they fail smaller dwindled or halted isk or any other district generated resource PC rule set, you do not understand even that? FF on and only vets on the other side what do you want more? So attackers get paid for losses when their attacks fail? Is another example of "Failure=IskReward" available somewhere in New Eden? I'm curious and would like to compare the two. No, "PC rule set" without an explanation I do not understand, that's why I asked. Funny thing about what you describe: FF on <- identical to Faction Warfare, so no, not unique as a "PC rule" Only vets <- Not created by your idea. Since attacks will happen at will, defenders will be composed of members available, not all of whom will neccessarily be "vets". " Only Vets" is a condition created by corps having the ability to take the time to ensure they have PC capable teammembers available. You realize you're just asking for PC to be a pub match, but without the competition, yet? Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:00:00 - [239] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Zaria, here's my problem with this: Nobody can tell me why it's not a good solution, other than it's different from what we have now, and people are resistant to change. Arguments like "taking away choice" or "violating the sandbox" are generally invalid, because games are built on limits, and if a function is not assisting gameplay, it needs to die. I've heard ONE good argument against locking down timer changes, and that's the potential for it to interfere with the "location matters" goal, but that's likely not to be an immediate issue anyways. And if we turn changing timers off, we can still turn it back on later, when the mode is developed further. So even if this did become a problem, I'd be inclined to lock it down for now, and iterate on it, and reopen the capability later. Loss aversion is a huge psychological thing. People are very resistant to losing things or options, even if the alternative is actually better. It's a human nature thing. Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:02:00 - [240] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: And again, to avoid the situation I described, you would need people online, 24/7. We're talking 48-64 players for every single district an alliance owns. There's what....245 districts or so? So in order for all alliances to properly defend 24/7 you would need 11,760-15,680 players playing PC actively every day for 6-8 hours a day. We do not have the player count to support that kind of system no matter how you try to justify its existence. player number would increase IMO substantially when we will remove veterans from pub contracts thus removing proto stompers from the newbie game mode as i mentioned before but those new players need time to learn that the era of q syncs and proto stomping in pub matches has ended by opening PC 24/7 why do you intend to defend all districts from the get go and why are you assuming that one alliance should have and defend all districts this mode will thrive on dynamic flipping at start till we adjust it later just w/o timers while i agree that later in development there should be an orbital bombardment required to open the district for flipping as of now we should just lay the foundations for that systems with removing artificial timers that prevent attacking the districts and limiting vets from playing end game mode of choice aka PC w/o 24 hour preparation or timer windows there is a lot of districts plenty of targets not necessary yours will be the target all the time while you assume with your statement that it will be, this is wrong when we will have more systems opened it will be even bigger pool of targets but the game needs to grow and with timers we are running in a magic cycle of band aid for bad end game mechanic that constantly leaves veterans terrorizing pubs newbies IMO we need to open the flood gates first adjust it later with bigger bonuses for successful defense, penalties will be controlled by the community in game. the penalty is losing a district by not being able to defend it 24/7, or temporal losing of bonus from owning a district by being the victim of constant raiding players within the game will create everything they need to succeed newbies , newer and older vets i know the numbers yes they are correct but as i said timers= stale game play for vets when we need ASAP a game mode for vets from the get go when they are online so that they will not stomp new players straight out of academy as i said before at start there will be chaos with district locking but after some time players will organize just stop preventing them from doing what they want only and this is PC combat quick and approachable Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5497	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:02:00 - [241] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. I think it was Kane who invented this term "region locking". I am not suggesting any sort of "region lock". I am suggesting the timers do not change from where they're originally seeded at, which should be scattered around the map to create a fairly varied play map. If you have 16 players who can fight on the Asian prime time you should be able to keep whatever you take, assuming you can also defend it in the Asian prime time. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:11:00 - [242] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: So attackers get paid for losses when their attacks fail? Is another example of "Failure=IskReward" available somewhere in New Eden? I'm curious and would like to compare the two. No, "PC rule set" without an explanation I do not understand, that's why I asked. Funny thing about what you describe: FF on <- identical to Faction Warfare, so no, not unique as a "PC rule" Only vets <- Not created by your idea. Since attacks will happen at will, defenders will be composed of members available, not all of whom will neccessarily be "vets". " Only Vets" is a condition created by corps having the ability to take the time to ensure they have PC capable teammembers available. You realize you're just asking for PC to be a pub match, but without the competition, yet? pc rule set also means team deploy does it not? only in PC you can deploy full 16 man squad above that friendly fire and a few million isk rewards with some nice salvage raid attacker winner takes tons of isk while being able to deploy full team for the match w/o any hassle q syncs and nice salvage (we clear FW from q sync stompers as they will have their end game mode with better/bigger rewards) raid attacker defeated lose suits and does not get money or salvage when they lose plus loses the initiation cost required for raid attack big ISK risk/big ISK reward raid defender winner gets tons of ISK is able to deploy whole team again no q sync hassle and praying for success while doing so and salvage raid defender loser does not get ISK or salvage and loses some % of district production for instance and cost of suits here you go Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4463	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:13:00 - [243] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: You don't seem to understand. We don't have the playerbase in the entire game to support what you're asking for. Fixing PC is not going to make people magically flock to play Dust, and certainly not in the required numbers to support your idea. Additionally you still have not told me how your idea gets past the imbalance in regional playerbase as well as excessive talent pooling we see in other areas such as Japan. Because why bother even trying to get a district if you know some guy in a different time zone will steal it out from under you? You're basically going balls deep with "Oh just send the entire system into total chaos and hopefully the playerbase will magically triple to make it all work!" Here's the deal. PC is unique because people always bring the best of the best to the fight. You want EVERYONE to be involved, everyone in the game. All the time. Which means what you get is a mix of everyone, newbies, vets, and everyone in between. You know what other game mode is like that? Public Contracts. If you make PC so chaotic, so manpower intensive that alliances are scraping together anyone they can get just to fill the damn time slots....what do you end up with? A public match. And since ownership wont matter because it'll just get flipped the second your patrols have an opening, how is that any different from a pub match? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:14:00 - [244] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. I think it was Kane who invented this term "region locking". I am not suggesting any sort of "region lock". I am suggesting the timers do not change from where they're originally seeded at, which should be scattered around the map to create a fairly varied play map. If you have 16 players who can fight on the Asian prime time you should be able to keep whatever you take, assuming you can also defend it in the Asian prime time. So, timers. Just not adjustable. Whose times are spread out to certain times for certain regions. Thats region locking, regardless of who coined the phrase. Taking it in Asian prime to then leave it in Asian prime isn't taking it. Its borrowing it. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:19:00 - [245] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: You don't seem to understand. We don't have the playerbase in the entire game to support what you're asking for. Fixing PC is not going to make people magically flock to play Dust, and certainly not in the required numbers to support your idea. Additionally you still have not told me how your idea gets past the imbalance in regional playerbase as well as excessive talent pooling we see in other areas such as Japan. Because why bother even trying to get a district if you know some guy in a different time zone will steal it out from under you? You're basically going balls deep with "Oh just send the entire system into total chaos and hopefully the playerbase will magically triple to make it all work!" Here's the deal. PC is unique because people always bring the best of the best to the fight. You want EVERYONE to be involved, everyone in the game. All the time. Which means what you get is a mix of everyone, newbies, vets, and everyone in between. You know what other game mode is like that? Public Contracts. If you make PC so chaotic, so manpower intensive that alliances are scraping together anyone they can get just to fill the damn time slots....what do you end up with? A public match. And since ownership wont matter because it'll just get flipped the second your patrols have an opening, how is that any different from a pub match? FKN-A Dude, That!!^^^^^^^^Right there^^^^^^ Pub PC without the competition that makes PC what it is. Want team deploy for your pubstar buds? Start a thread for it and call it what it is- Team Deployed Pub Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2405	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:24:00 - [246] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? Yeah, I am not seeing where he is coming from because from what I've read el Operator seems to be the Lazer Fo Cused of PC. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1056	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:25:00 - [247] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Zaria, here's my problem with this: Nobody can tell me why it's not a good solution, other than it's different from what we have now, and people are resistant to change. Arguments like "taking away choice" or "violating the sandbox" are generally invalid, because games are built on limits, and if a function is not assisting gameplay, it needs to die. I've heard ONE good argument against locking down timer changes, and that's the potential for it to interfere with the "location matters" goal, but that's likely not to be an immediate issue anyways. And if we turn changing timers off, we can still turn it back on later, when the mode is developed further. So even if this did become a problem, I'd be inclined to lock it down for now, and iterate on it, and reopen the capability later. Loss aversion is a huge psychological thing. People are very resistant to losing things or options, even if the alternative is actually better. It's a human nature thing. Location does matter. PC is, in the end, player created contect, and giving value to arbitrary things is what drives that. Location does also matter if there is any eve interaction (as there is now), if there is any effect of distance on attacing (the way there is clone attrition now) etc. Also. You saying that an argument is invalid because you feel like it doesn't actually make it so. Your opinion is also just an opinion, like all of ours. You can keep repeating the phrase "your argument is invalid" at everyone who disagrees with you, but you're not actually convincing anyone of anything by doing so. And, sure. We can go with whatever system now, there is always an option to change it later How long does it usually take CCP to get around to these things, if we look at the history of Dust? Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4463	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:29:00 - [248] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? Well to be fair, isn't that middle ground supposed to be FacWar or PC Raiding? And then Conquest being the most challenging? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:29:00 - [249] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: You don't seem to understand. We don't have the playerbase in the entire game to support what you're asking for. Fixing PC is not going to make people magically flock to play Dust, and certainly not in the required numbers to support your idea. Additionally you still have not told me how your idea gets past the imbalance in regional playerbase as well as excessive talent pooling we see in other areas such as Japan. this thing will solve itself out by it self, when we will have alliance tools for response after the initial chaos people will get it that they need to have a multi time zone alliance to have and own a district for longer, do not worry about this as this will be the thing for community to consolidate within the game as they will know for sure that w/o owning a district will be not possible. Pokey Dravon wrote: Because why bother even trying to get a district if you know some guy in a different time zone will steal it out from under you? You're basically going balls deep with "Oh just send the entire system into total chaos and hopefully the player base will magically triple to make it all work!" yeah man i would not worry about that 24/7 veteran mode open means people need to think and get into world wide alliance and yes till they make that happen it will be chaos, after first multi time zone alliances form we will be able to polish this mode more Pokey Dravon wrote: Here's the deal. PC is unique because people always bring the best of the best to the fight. You want EVERYONE to be involved, everyone in the game. All the time. Which means what you get is a mix of everyone, newbies, vets, and everyone in between. You know what other game mode is like that? Public Contracts. players will know that in PC mode only vets are playing trust me when they enter the fray and will get their asses delivered for them on the plate because full 16 man enemy defends it and profits it greatly while attacker when fails loses every invested isk trust me this penalty will teach them and no in public contracts we have a reward either way if you lose or if you win to some extent and we can not deploy full 16 man team for that Pokey Dravon wrote: If you make PC so chaotic, so manpower intensive that alliances are scraping together anyone they can get just to fill the damn time slots....what do you end up with? A public match. And since ownership wont matter because it'll just get flipped the second your patrols have an opening, how is that any different from a pub match? no man a full team deployed match still that teaches team play and coordination and i will doubt that more then 1-3 new players will be invited for PC defense or attack and i am sure that when enabled, the no timer rule, vets who want to own and play will consolidate for sure so do not worry they will have their end game mode while new players will still play public contracts on its rules so 6 man squad deploy tons of random people etc. etc. etc. that was my vision for end game in dust from beta and yet i still wonder why no one wanted to achieve that ;( Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4317	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:34:00 - [250] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. I think it was Kane who invented this term "region locking". I am not suggesting any sort of "region lock". I am suggesting the timers do not change from where they're originally seeded at, which should be scattered around the map to create a fairly varied play map. If you have 16 players who can fight on the Asian prime time you should be able to keep whatever you take, assuming you can also defend it in the Asian prime time. Timezones are based on regions and if timers are locked and unchangeable then yes, you are proposing region locking PC. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1058	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:35:00 - [251] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well to be fair, isn't that middle ground supposed to be FacWar or PC Raiding? And then Conquest being the most challenging? Yes, it's supposed to be. Which is why it is particularly ridiculous that so many people want to make sure that PC becomes a way to spin up matches at will where you can almost quarantee there will be no opposition present at all, let alone something you'll have to work at to beat. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4464	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:46:00 - [252] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Holy ***. What part of "WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS IN ALL THE TIME ZONES TO MAKE TRUE MULTI-TIME ZONE ALLIANCES" are you not getting? If we had 50,000 players logging in and playing daily I would actually probably agree with you but we dont. Yeah there will be total and utter chaos, and then 90% of the people will say "* this, it's cheaper to just play pubs!" and we'll be right back to where we are now.c Not good enough to take a district in PC? Just do it at a weird time when they're not online! But that's ok because the group that's better than you that you ganked the district from will come right back and kick you in the teeth anyways and take it back. What you want is a place for a group to deploy as a 16 man team to learn teamwork and practice for PC. What you're asking for is to turn PC into a training ground rather than a competative enviroment. What I'm offering is allowing part of PC to be used for training without completely undermining the competative nature of PC. Want to give your new guys a chance to train? Put them in charge of defending against Raids. Want to give your vets a change to fight against the best of the best? Put them in charge of defending against Conquest. If your corporation is not good enough to forcefully take a district without making use of ambush attacks, then they are not good enough to defend that district. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7940	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:47:00 - [253] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Zaria, here's my problem with this: Nobody can tell me why it's not a good solution, other than it's different from what we have now, and people are resistant to change. Arguments like "taking away choice" or "violating the sandbox" are generally invalid, because games are built on limits, and if a function is not assisting gameplay, it needs to die. I've heard ONE good argument against locking down timer changes, and that's the potential for it to interfere with the "location matters" goal, but that's likely not to be an immediate issue anyways. And if we turn changing timers off, we can still turn it back on later, when the mode is developed further. So even if this did become a problem, I'd be inclined to lock it down for now, and iterate on it, and reopen the capability later. Loss aversion is a huge psychological thing. People are very resistant to losing things or options, even if the alternative is actually better. It's a human nature thing. Assuming I'm understanding what is being referred to as 'region locking' correctly, It's not a good solution because people sleep, and work, totaling upwards of 75-96 hours a week. Players would like the opportunity to be able to take districts but if the enemy's primary defense is to schedule their timer(s) at times which they know most of the people in that region work/sleep. It pretty much forces you to get foreign entities on the job or lose sleep/miss work to be able to engage them. Lot of Americans will be quick to tell you that they don't particularly enjoy having to be up at 03:00 AM to try and fight another corporation for a variety of reasons. A few American corps would even schedule their timers in off-the-wall times just because they knew no-one would attack them. What we need is a way to create leniency on the timers to be a bit more forgiving for both parties instead of the defenders always being able to schedule around their potential attackers. Does it "violate the sandbox"? Sure it does. It's a very gimmicky game mechanic that is ripe for abuse. Does it "take away choice"? Yes, it does, because if your corporation is primarily from one region of the world it genuinely does limit who you can and cannot engage. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4464	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:48:00 - [254] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Well to be fair, isn't that middle ground supposed to be FacWar or PC Raiding? And then Conquest being the most challenging? Yes, it's supposed to be. Which is why it is particularly ridiculous that so many people want to make sure that PC becomes a way to spin up matches at will where you can almost quarantee there will be no opposition present at all, let alone something you'll have to work at to beat. I completely agree. Rework Conquest be what it was always intended to be, the best of the best fighting each other. Rework FacWar and/or Raids to be the opportunity new players need to be involved in PC without putting a corporation's land on the line. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7942	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:48:00 - [255] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Holy ***. What part of "WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS IN ALL THE TIME ZONES TO MAKE TRUE MULTI-TIME ZONE ALLIANCES" are you not getting? If we had 50,000 players logging in and playing daily I would actually probably agree with you but we dont. Yeah there will be total and utter chaos, and then 90% of the people will say "*** this, it's cheaper to just play pubs!" and we'll be right back to where we are now.c Not good enough to take a district in PC? Just do it at a weird time when they're not online! But that's ok because the group that's better than you that you ganked the district from will come right back and kick you in the teeth anyways and take it back. What you want is a place for a group to deploy as a 16 man team to learn teamwork and practice for PC. What you're asking for is to turn PC into a training ground rather than a competative enviroment. What I'm offering is allowing part of PC to be used for training without completely undermining the competative nature of PC. Want to give your new guys a chance to train? Put them in charge of defending against Raids. Want to give your vets a change to fight against the best of the best? Put them in charge of defending against Conquest. If your corporation is not good enough to forcefully take a district without making use of ambush attacks, then they are not good enough to defend that district. Alright, Pokey, calm down. Take a smoke break, get your head back in the game, I'm the only one allowed to make a fool of themselves on the forums because it makes guys like you look a lot more level-headed. Really hard for me to do that when you're doing what I'm doing and getting frustrated. Take a breather broseph, lemme be the one that nerd rages so you look a lot more reasonable. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1062	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:51:00 - [256] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Holy ***. What part of "WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS IN ALL THE TIME ZONES TO MAKE TRUE MULTI-TIME ZONE ALLIANCES" are you not getting? If we had 50,000 players logging in and playing daily I would actually probably agree with you but we dont. Yeah there will be total and utter chaos, and then 90% of the people will say "*** this, it's cheaper to just play pubs!" and we'll be right back to where we are now.c Not good enough to take a district in PC? Just do it at a weird time when they're not online! But that's ok because the group that's better than you that you ganked the district from will come right back and kick you in the teeth anyways and take it back. What you want is a place for a group to deploy as a 16 man team to learn teamwork and practice for PC. What you're asking for is to turn PC into a training ground rather than a competative enviroment. What I'm offering is allowing part of PC to be used for training without completely undermining the competative nature of PC. Want to give your new guys a chance to train? Put them in charge of defending against Raids. Want to give your vets a change to fight against the best of the best? Put them in charge of defending against Conquest. If your corporation is not good enough to forcefully take a district without making use of ambush attacks, then they are not good enough to defend that district. This, so much this. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5796	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:51:00 - [257] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. I think it was Kane who invented this term "region locking". I am not suggesting any sort of "region lock". I am suggesting the timers do not change from where they're originally seeded at, which should be scattered around the map to create a fairly varied play map. If you have 16 players who can fight on the Asian prime time you should be able to keep whatever you take, assuming you can also defend it in the Asian prime time. Horrible idea. Again the time zones didn't create the problems. The mechanics that allowed for small groups to dominate everything caused the problems. The only thing this idea would do is cause low participation time zones to farm ISK all day long. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:52:00 - [258] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Holy ***. What part of "WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS IN ALL THE TIME ZONES TO MAKE TRUE MULTI-TIME ZONE ALLIANCES" are you not getting? If we had 50,000 players logging in and playing daily I would actually probably agree with you but we dont. Yeah there will be total and utter chaos, and then 90% of the people will say "*** this, it's cheaper to just play pubs!" and we'll be right back to where we are now.c Not good enough to take a district in PC? Just do it at a weird time when they're not online! But that's ok because the group that's better than you that you ganked the district from will come right back and kick you in the teeth anyways and take it back. What you want is a place for a group to deploy as a 16 man team to learn teamwork and practice for PC. What you're asking for is to turn PC into a training ground rather than a competative enviroment. What I'm offering is allowing part of PC to be used for training without completely undermining the competative nature of PC. Want to give your new guys a chance to train? Put them in charge of defending against Raids. Want to give your vets a change to fight against the best of the best? Put them in charge of defending against Conquest. If your corporation is not good enough to forcefully take a district without making use of ambush attacks, then they are not good enough to defend that district. don't worry that much about player base when we will have good rule set and proto bears and q sync will stop terrorizing pubs community will grow not instantly but trust me it will, dust is free and unique people when not stomped will come towards it and will want to learn more about it we just need some brave moves from devs ;) i see though you will not leave the timer idea that is your right but i will not let timers to stay either in our debate ps. thanks for the time and replies though Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4467	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:58:00 - [259] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alright, Pokey, calm down. Take a smoke break, get your head back in the game, I'm the only one allowed to make a fool of themselves on the forums because it makes guys like you look a lot more level-headed. Really hard for me to do that when you're doing what I'm doing and getting frustrated. Take a breather broseph, lemme be the one that nerd rages so you look a lot more reasonable. sigh I know I know, I just get frustrated when I tell people "Here, you can have what you want except for this minor detail because you know...compromise" and the answer is "Nope, I want 100%". I need a beer. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7942	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:59:00 - [260] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Holy ***. What part of "WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS IN ALL THE TIME ZONES TO MAKE TRUE MULTI-TIME ZONE ALLIANCES" are you not getting? If we had 50,000 players logging in and playing daily I would actually probably agree with you but we dont. Yeah there will be total and utter chaos, and then 90% of the people will say "*** this, it's cheaper to just play pubs!" and we'll be right back to where we are now.c Not good enough to take a district in PC? Just do it at a weird time when they're not online! But that's ok because the group that's better than you that you ganked the district from will come right back and kick you in the teeth anyways and take it back. What you want is a place for a group to deploy as a 16 man team to learn teamwork and practice for PC. What you're asking for is to turn PC into a training ground rather than a competative enviroment. What I'm offering is allowing part of PC to be used for training without completely undermining the competative nature of PC. Want to give your new guys a chance to train? Put them in charge of defending against Raids. Want to give your vets a change to fight against the best of the best? Put them in charge of defending against Conquest. If your corporation is not good enough to forcefully take a district without making use of ambush attacks, then they are not good enough to defend that district. don't worry that much about player base when we will have good rule set and proto bears and q sync will stop terrorizing pubs community will grow not instantly but trust me it will, dust is unique people when not stomped will come towards it and will want to learn more about it we just need some brave moves from devs ;) i see though you will not leave the timer idea that is your right but i will not let timers to stay either in our debate ps. thanks for the time and replies though Consider this for a moment: If we removed timers all together and allowed for districts to be attacked, whenever, however. How many people would have to be online to attack and defend at any given time? 245 districts * 16 players = 3,920 245 districts * 32 players = 7,840 Let's assume that only half of that is being attacked at any given time, throughout the day. That's still 1,920 players. Even in the best case scenario, we don't have enough people to field to be able to engage in battles constantly, non-stop. There has to be some sort of filter, barrier, or limitation in order for players to have down-time between matches and be able to coordinate. We haven't had more than 3,500 players online at any given time since August. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback

Zene Ren Hired Ghost 106	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:09:00 - [261] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Consider this for a moment: If we removed timers all together and allowed for districts to be attacked, whenever, however. How many people would have to be online to attack and defend at any given time? 245 districts * 16 players = 3,920 245 districts * 32 players = 7,840 Let's assume that only half of that is being attacked at any given time, throughout the day. That's still 1,920 players. Even in the best case scenario, we don't have enough people to field to be able to engage in battles constantly, non-stop. There has to be some sort of filter, barrier, or limitation in order for players to have down-time between matches and be able to coordinate. We haven't had more than 3,500 players online at any given time since August. that is nice and yeah you have a point but if we do not give our vets a game mode for them dust new players will still be stomped and discouraged to invest more time in this game thus leaving us in a dwindling spiral no longer academy or things like that will prevent them from hitting the reality after, with proto stompers and q syncs from pure boredom in pub matches thus going deeper into tier side and other solutions that will only make the game experience more sterile and not appealing on the opposite side if we enable vets their end game mode 24/7 with lots of targets and an option to start the PC almost instantly vets will be happy and new players also veterans needs to have high risk high reward mode enabled for them 24/7 or we will stay in status quo that is the base for my argumentation Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:13:00 - [262] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? Yeah, I am not seeing where he is coming from because from what I've read el Operator seems to be the Lazer Fo Cused of PC. Just el OPERATOR, thanks. Like the sig reads, main and original. Someday I'll remember to add "Only". Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2405	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:35:00 - [263] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? Yeah, I am not seeing where he is coming from because from what I've read el Operator seems to be the Lazer Fo Cused of PC. Just el OPERATOR, thanks. Like the sig reads, main and original. Someday I'll remember to add "Only". Again, Reading Comprehension. Another way to say what I did is that you are to PC what Lazer Fo Cused is to Vehicle balance. Never did I say that you had an alt named Lazer Fo Cused (because frankly I already know that is Takahiro Kashuken) Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:48:00 - [264] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? Yeah, I am not seeing where he is coming from because from what I've read el Operator seems to be the Lazer Fo Cused of PC. Just el OPERATOR, thanks. Like the sig reads, main and original. Someday I'll remember to add "Only". Again, Reading Comprehension. Another way to say what I did is that you are to PC what Lazer Fo Cused is to Vehicle balance. Never did I say that you had an alt named Lazer Fo Cused (because frankly I already know that is Takahiro Kashuken)[/quote] And that is relevant how to the discussion at hand?? Except for the analogy of PC now being like Vehicles then, in which case you may have a winner since while (look it up) the forums were full of trash players QQing about vehicle imbalance I was playing matches and utterly eviscerating ezmode vehicle pilots with my PLC/AV nade combo. While posting that, while imbalanced for sure, vehicles were FAR from invincible OR unkillable. So if I'm LazorFocused, I guess you'd have to beee.... random forum playertrash that doesn't even participate in the gamemode you are trying to dictate settings for. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5509	Posted - 2015.01.22 01:10:00 - [265] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. I think it was Kane who invented this term "region locking". I am not suggesting any sort of "region lock". I am suggesting the timers do not change from where they're originally seeded at, which should be scattered around the map to create a fairly varied play map. If you have 16 players who can fight on the Asian prime time you should be able to keep whatever you take, assuming you can also defend it in the Asian prime time. Timezones are based on regions and if timers are locked and unchangeable then yes, you are proposing region locking PC. Introducing some sensible mechanics associated with timer changes like escalating cost makes way more sense than trying to force timers that are unchangeable for all time. How does that solve the problem though? Aeon Amadi wrote: Assuming I'm understanding what is being referred to as 'region locking' correctly, It's not a good solution because people sleep, and work, totaling upwards of 75-96 hours a week. Players would like the opportunity to be able to take districts but if the enemy's primary defense is to schedule their timer(s) at times which they know most of the people in that region work/sleep. It pretty much forces you to get foreign entities on the job or lose sleep/miss work to be able to engage them. Lot of Americans will be quick to tell you that they don't particularly enjoy having to be up at 03:00 AM to try and fight another corporation for a variety of reasons. It is in fact that solution which fixes that. If people can't change the timers, they no longer have to get up at 3 AM if they want their district back, because it will still be in the timer they left it. They enemy can't "schedule" the timer at a time when you're asleep. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 989	Posted - 2015.01.22 01:35:00 - [266] - Quote Just to be clear: Talented, skilled, and dedicated players that cluster together into cohesive organizations will ALWAYS dominate competitive games. You will not ever formulate a ruleset to make PC "More Inclusive", the best will always rise to the top along whatever rails you provide and will squeeze others out, and you will never stop that. So please do not misplace the desire of having meaningful activities for casual or lesser-skilled players into the PVP end-game of Dust. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Grimmiers 767	Posted - 2015.01.22 01:41:00 - [267] - Quote Are we going to expand beyond molden heath? If there's a great distance between what corps you're able to find based on location players should naturally group up based on their timezones. If we had a contract system you could have ringers defend your districts while you're sleeping.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4319	Posted - 2015.01.22 01:44:00 - [268] - Quote Soraya, that depends on what you think is the core problem. Is it that CCP hasn't engaged the Asian and even the EU community to participate in PC? Is it that clones at 1200 can be used to attack a 2300 timer so that North American players meta the control of the 1200 districts rather than taking them for themselves? Is it that timers can be drastically changed right after capture to prevent counter Attack? Is it that districts don't have enough intrinsic value to make it worthwhile for many corps? Is it that the barrier of entry is too high currently paired with winner-takes-all mechanics? Region locking addresses a symptom without addressing the core problems while at the same time creating new ones. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7944	Posted - 2015.01.22 01:53:00 - [269] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Soraya, that depends on what you think is the core problem. Is it that CCP hasn't engaged the Asian and even the EU community to participate in PC? Is it that clones at 1200 can be used to attack a 2300 timer so that North American players meta the control of the 1200 districts rather than taking them for themselves? Is it that timers can be drastically changed right after capture to prevent counter Attack? Is it that districts don't have enough intrinsic value to make it worthwhile for many corps? Is it that the barrier of entry is too high currently paired with winner-takes-all mechanics? Region locking addresses a symptom without addressing the core problems while at the same time creating new ones. The core problems, I am to understand, are that: - Strictly set timers suck - Nothing that makes districts worthwhile or valuable over any of the others - High barrier of entry The first can easily be addressed by a change of game-play mechanics that include more leniency toward attackers through the creation of uncertainty. Defenders setting a time roughly around when they want their battles to take place instead of the exact hour of the day. EDIT: Or perhaps giving the attackers a means at which to manipulate those times and timers. The second comes through the creation and implementation of valuable commodities beyond just ISK and Clones as a standard currency, but instead something else (warbarge components, more than likely). EDIT: I'd suspect that some districts are more valuable than others, providing 'moar stuff' to encourage entities to compete over those districts. Another option would be to limit the tactical availability of those districts through other means (for instance: deep low-sec districts can't be attacked by clone packs or something, just spit-balling). The third, on the other hand, is largely a psychological and metaphysical aspect of the game that cannot be directly changed. It can be encouraged, absolutely, but if we are to... for example... impose a ruleset such as: "Six (6) man raids can only be fielded by players in Standard gear" it limits the propensity for use of high-end gear but veterans are still going to have the upper hand. However, I think it'd be a good opportunity to implement more controlled game-modes that better benefit a more competitive environment without strictly needing to have high-end gear and a lot of accumulated SP. After all, Raids are all about the taking of valued commodities or ISK, so I think a gear restriction would do well to encourage corporations to recruit outside of the veterancy pool. Just a thought. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5809	Posted - 2015.01.22 03:13:00 - [270] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Just to be clear: Talented, skilled, and dedicated players that cluster together into cohesive organizations will ALWAYS dominate competitive games. You will not ever formulate a ruleset to make PC "More Inclusive", the best will always rise to the top along whatever rails you provide and will squeeze others out, and you will never stop that. So please do not misplace the desire of having meaningful activities for casual or lesser-skilled players into the PVP end-game of Dust. I can buy that, but how do we know where the competive level of Dust is? The way PC was released without any other form of team play. We have players more than a year experience who've never been in a position to team deploy. What if they've never joined a corp? What if they've been in a corp for 6 months that tried PC a couple times, but didn't like the mechanics? We aren't talking about a gamemode that was released with all the proper elements. Forget the SP gap, the players that had corp battle experience in corps that evolved into elite corps with over 2 years of team play experience pretty much won the game before it started with the tools made available since 5/13. I understand where you are coming from, but I think people give themselves too much credit for having a huge head start on the competition. If it doesn't become more inclusive what's the point of developing Dust anymore at all? I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.

hfderrtgvcd 1743	Posted - 2015.01.22 04:14:00 - [271] - Quote Excellent idea from Derrith: Well, here comes another long winded post from Derrith. And what a twist, I'm not ranting about ADS! Anyway, on to the subject matter, we all know PC is a flawed and rather crappy system. Let's see just how we can implement a decent fix for that. Issue 1: Passive isk. Personally I believe we should bring that back, with some modifications. Mod 1: I believe in order to avoid what I call "The Nyain Effect", we should add to each district owned by X corp to have a 25% penalty to any district with corresponding timers under X corp. Example: Say FA has a district at 2100 and we make about (random number) 20mil isk a day off it. Having a second district under that timer would lower the isk production rate of both the first district and the corresponding district. District 1 will make 15mil a day, as will district 2. Having a third district on this timer would render third district useless, and have no need of said district, FA will definitely sell it to some newb corp for money (we're nice people that way). Issue 2: Alt corps/ and vanity corps. I've heard FAs fair Princess Zatata argue that if this change would be implemented, there would be an increased number of alt and vanity corps. Let me start off by saying you can't stop vanity corps, or alt corps. This idea should get the ball rolling in highly discouraging it, however. Mod 2: When AE and FA merged to become the Last of Dust (pretty horrid fail, almost as bad as MHPD), I had a panty dropper library inside FA that I put on a word document to transfer over to TLODs private GD thread. I had to wait two weeks, and the corp had to have about 10 members inside of corp for me to transfer my said panty dropper library. Now my question to CCP is this, why is it that I have to wait two weeks and have ten or so corp members to make as simple and insignificant as a GD thread, yet I can create a corp instantly and launch clone packs all over the place? That just doesn't make sense to me. Proposed fix: Make a corp have to exist for at least a week and have at least 20 members inside of corp. Again, you can't stop alt corps, but this will greatly discourage it, if I'm correct. Issue 3: Spreading more combat in Molden Heath. As it is right now, MH is a smoldering ruin of hippies, and beatnicks. How to get rid of them, you ask? The answer is probably simple. Mod 3: Increasing rewards for flipping a district and successfully defending a district. As it is currently, we get isk based off of a 150 clone count, no matter the winning side, or how many of those clones we kill on enemy team, along with gear destroyed in battle. But there's no real reward for defending a district from 400 clones, you get the same reward if you defended it from 150, along with destroyed clones. Make defenses to where if a district is successfully defended, the biomass of attacking clones turns to isk, and goes right into the defenders wallets, making for a nice paycheck on their end. And on the attackers side. Giving a reason to flip the district is the key. As it is right now, people will go into some new corps turf, beat the crap out of him, but not so much to where he can't come back and have it happen all over again. Solution to this being that if you flip the district, an extra isk reward will be given to mercs in said battle. Another idea that pops up is to make the Surface research lab the district type that if you successfully defend or flip, an extra reward on top of the defense or flip reward would make those areas bloodbaths. Issue 4: A lot of PC have been shouting about this for a while now. I'm sure I'm not the only guy who thinks "Gee, I'm getting kind of sick of having to fight on the cargo hub map over and over and over again. Mod 4: Introduce new maps every time a re-attack takes place. The initial defense will be the same old map, but the re-attack will have a different map waiting for you, and thus a different plan. BTW, on a side note, nearly every PC vet I've talked to despises the Gallente research facility, that map has produced better slideshows than Microsoft Powerpoint. Just kill that map. Issue 5: Getting new corps in PC. A lot of new corps complain that it's hard getting in PC. And for the most part, you're right. Clone packs are too expensive, and pub isk gained is laughable. Mod 5A: This idea does not come from me. I take no credit, Sota Pop came up with this idea. For new corps trying to get into PC, it would be prudent and helpful to give them discounts on the clone packs so they don't have to grind for so long for it. Mod 5B: increase pub isk by 50%. Typically we get about 200k per match in a pub, which for new corps, grinding that out is rather frustrating. Increasing the pub isk would give pubbies a good reason to keep playing so they don't have to go dirt poor nearly every match, and would help the isk grind for the new boys and girls. Again, sorry for the long windedness. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
ZDub 303 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 3351	Posted - 2015.01.22 04:17:00 - [272] - Quote My feedback would be to try and create a system where both the attackers and the defenders have some amount of agency on when the battle takes place. In that spirit, I would choose option C. Create a system where the defenders choose the window in which they can be attacked and then create a UI interface that allows attackers to choose within X minute resolution when the actual attack takes place. Of course, once the attack is set no other attacks can take place. Okay, so this on its own does not solve the DT +0.5 issue you've stated. So the logical solution would seem to be to restrict when defenders can place defend windows. To solve this.. it would seem the best option is to lock the timers to a certain specific time and distribute those based on regional activity... but I think this is just a fundamentally poor idea as it gives neither the attacker nor the defender any agency on when the fight can happen. This, in my opinion, goes against the sandbox nature of New Eden and will overall just feel bad. However... could we find a balance between both solutions perhaps? Maybe a window in which district timers can be changed within but allow a hardstop on certain times? Say create a -¦ 4 to 5 hour window for defense timers to be changed and a -¦ 1 to 1.5 hour window in which attackers are available to set the actual attack time? Then round the exact selectable times to either 10 or 15 minute increments? You could also include 'resource raid' mechanics into this fairly nicely... giving a wider window for raids and a smaller window for sov battles perhaps. This would be my feedback on this as a solution.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15374	Posted - 2015.01.22 04:40:00 - [273] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: As it is right now, MH is a smoldering ruin of hippies, and beatnicks. How to get rid of them, you ask? The answer is probably simple. Haha, that made me choke on my coffee "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Derrith Erador Heaven's Lost Property 3326	Posted - 2015.01.22 04:51:00 - [274] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: As it is right now, MH is a smoldering ruin of hippies, and beatnicks. How to get rid of them, you ask? The answer is probably simple. Haha, that made me choke on my coffee I'll be taking credit for that gag, TY! 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
Derrith Erador Heaven's Lost Property 3326	Posted - 2015.01.22 04:59:00 - [275] - Quote But on a serious note, set timers is a seriously bad idea. The problem with this is that it won't stop any sort of universal conquest for any corp on that timer. They may do it for farming, which would be what most of us do. Or just to be a-holes. You need a system that makes to where it just isn't profitable to have more than a set number of districts on a set timer. 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 730	Posted - 2015.01.22 05:08:00 - [276] - Quote Derrith how would you feel on staggered hours on a planet's districts. They are supposed to be planets, with a day night cyle. On small planets it can be staggered say hourly District 1 through 5 have a 5 hour staggered window, which encourages raiding in low population areas. Larger planets have more overlapping windows. Planets with roughly 12 or more districts can have them overlap every half hour. District I, 1:00, District II 1:30 District III 2:00 and so on. The reason they should not over lap on larger planets is because we dont want to have PC window near or during down time. Everytime the devs need to do some maintenance work it would give those corps a massive advantage. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Derrith Erador Heaven's Lost Property 3326	Posted - 2015.01.22 05:21:00 - [277] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Derrith how would you feel on staggered hours on a planet's districts. They are supposed to be planets, with a day night cyle. On small planets it can be staggered say hourly District 1 through 5 have a 5 hour staggered window, which encourages raiding in low population areas. Larger planets have more overlapping windows. Planets with roughly 12 or more districts can have them overlap every half hour. District I, 1:00, District II 1:30 District III 2:00 and so on. High population areas with large garrisions should be easier to defend agains raiders. The reason they should not over lap on larger planets is because we dont want to have PC window near or during down time. Everytime the devs need to do some maintenance work it would give those corps a massive advantage. Wait, would the owner of these districts be able to set a timer? Then if so, the others would be set on other hourly intervals in correspondence to that one? 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5521	Posted - 2015.01.22 05:35:00 - [278] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Just to be clear: Talented, skilled, and dedicated players that cluster together into cohesive organizations will ALWAYS dominate competitive games. You will not ever formulate a ruleset to make PC "More Inclusive", the best will always rise to the top along whatever rails you provide and will squeeze others out, and you will never stop that. So please do not misplace the desire of having meaningful activities for casual or lesser-skilled players into the PVP end-game of Dust. It's really not hard. You need to introduce mechanics that make holding more territory than you need unhealthy. ZDub 303 wrote: To solve this.. it would seem the best option is to lock the timers to a certain specific time and distribute those based on regional activity... but I think this is just a fundamentally poor idea as it gives neither the attacker nor the defender any agency on when the fight can happen. This, in my opinion, goes against the sandbox nature of New Eden and will overall just feel bad. The attacker and defender do have a choice. They're choosing what district to attack. o_o ZDub 303 wrote: Maybe a window in which district timers can be changed within but allow a hardstop on certain times? Say create a -¦ 4 to 5 hour window for defense timers to be changed and a -¦ 1 to 1.5 hour window in which attackers are available to set the actual attack time? Then round the exact selectable times to either 10 or 15 minute increments? You could also include 'resource raid' mechanics into this fairly nicely... giving a wider window for raids and a smaller window for sov battles perhaps. Semi-flexible defense windows are actually another thing I proposed (which everyone promptly forgot about since Kane wants to defend Nyain San's method of acquiring districts). The attack windows I am very iffy about because they decrease the number of corps who can defend a district successfully, since they'll need more PC grade people on since the time they can be hit is wider. If it's maybe only two hours, I could may get behind that. And resource raiding with a wider flexibility and/or less warning is definitely something I want to see. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 730	Posted - 2015.01.22 06:02:00 - [279] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Wait, would the owner of these districts be able to set a timer? Then if so, the others would be set on other hourly intervals in correspondence to that one? No the timers would be have to be pre-set by CCP, invading corps should pick the timers that work best for them. That being said, since larger planets will have more overlapping timers it ought to be easy to find a planet with many corrseponding timezones to your own. Stronger Corps could take control of larger population centers, and thus be able to defend more successfully against raids having a smaller window, weaker corps pushed out to the fringes of space, where a less habital planet with few population centers would have large windows would be very difficult to defend all the districts from raids out there. sore of like the difference between enforcing the lawn int the north east where DC, boston, new york, baltimore and philadelphia are just a few hours apart and trying to hold on to nevada with las vegas and a few other no name towns along the way. alot more potential for lawlessness and raiding. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4327	Posted - 2015.01.22 08:16:00 - [280] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: ..... since Kane wants to defend Nyain San's method of acquiring districts.... Soraya, you've obviously not been paying attention. An exponential increasing cost to switch a timer the further you try to change would not allow a team to use 1 TZ team to acquire (NS using US and EU players) and then 1 TZ team to defend (NS then using Japanese players) after dramatically altering a timer. Also, disallowing using those districts to attack too many hours outside of a districts reinforcement timer would prevent players from seeing value in the districts as a logistical asset in their own time zone. This value is why players in North America have defended Nyain San's districts time and again. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3487	Posted - 2015.01.22 08:29:00 - [281] - Quote Based on what facts... it won't happen like that. Also grabbing people out of local to take part in PC is exactly what we want. Please get out of pro club only mentality. We want everyone in PC not just a few. This stuiped pro gamer ides is a large factor that screwed up dust. It should have always been about corps throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other. 24 hour wars mean you recruit till u can plug the gaps. Only idots would count on the same players 24/7 a well run corp will always have men and women it can count on. If that means all the old powers die out so be it. I would rather see PC full of 1000 idots having fun. Than 100 pro gamers who do everything they can to avoid a fight Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 4327	Posted - 2015.01.22 08:36:00 - [282] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps This is why quoting is always the safest bet. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3488	Posted - 2015.01.22 09:00:00 - [283] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps This is why quoting is always the safest bet. People like posting essays here which screw up my phone heh. Ontopic as someone who played a **** ton of global agenda. Region timers also do not work. They tried counting this with a system where you place bids for an attack....this lead to bid locking alt corps... In one case I was part of I alliance where we invaded the EU timezones just because we could and we'll yeh. My strong dislike of timers is based on hard experience. My best gaming was when in beta it was 24 hours. It was awsome fights all the time never had to do a pub match. We never understood the logic of region locking... Noone was fussed if u didn't want to get it you built a shield and made sure noone build nukes near you. You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1368	Posted - 2015.01.22 11:43:00 - [284] - Quote I've not read all of the responses, no need. I will say this; timers are not broken. The timer system works. The complaints are from people that are lazy. Basically this is being directed at NS(Japanese Corp). I've searched and can not find a single thread from NS about timers outside of their prime time. They did what they had to do, took the districts and set them to their prime time. You don't like them, go take the districts from them and set the timer to what you want. Spoon feeding the lazy people is not a fix. You are encouraging another "fix" when the next corp dominates MH. You know why there are no Mexicans on Star Trek? They don't work in the future either.
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1368	Posted - 2015.01.22 11:46:00 - [285] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Based on what facts... it won't happen like that. Also grabbing people out of local to take part in PC is exactly what we want. Please get out of pro club only mentality. We want everyone in PC not just a few. This stuiped pro gamer ides is a large factor that screwed up dust. It should have always been about corps throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other. 24 hour wars mean you recruit till u can plug the gaps. Only idots would count on the same players 24/7 a well run corp will always have men and women it can count on. If that means all the old powers die out so be it. I would rather see PC full of 1000 idots having fun. Than 100 pro gamers who do everything they can to avoid a fight Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps Get your 16 mercs from local and attack someone then. Please post your results. You'll see, that playing with the same corp group of players is very advantageous. The game mode is called Planetary Conquest. Do I need to define, "conquest" for you? You know why there are no Mexicans on Star Trek? They don't work in the future either.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 112	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:15:00 - [286] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Based on what facts... it won't happen like that. Also grabbing people out of local to take part in PC is exactly what we want. Please get out of pro club only mentality. We want everyone in PC not just a few. This stuiped pro gamer ides is a large factor that screwed up dust. It should have always been about corps throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other. 24 hour wars mean you recruit till u can plug the gaps. Only idots would count on the same players 24/7 a well run corp will always have men and women it can count on. If that means all the old powers die out so be it. I would rather see PC full of 1000 idots having fun. Than 100 pro gamers who do everything they can to avoid a fight Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps Get your 16 mercs from local and attack someone then. Please post your results. You'll see, that playing with the same corp group of players is very advantageous. The game mode is called Planetary Conquest. Do I need to define, "conquest" for you? why do you care if this 16 man pug will win or lose OMFG it is not about that it is about the availability of the mode 24/7 so that this pug group has a shot (yes they will probably lose so what? ) and this 16 man team will have the game mode of their choice available to play also wheels are turning game mode is active and dynamic everybody gets their instant chance when they can afford it they got the skills and a team even of randoms the whole idea of this 1337 club is broken at it's core and the idea of timers also it is and always will be shutting this game mode from everybody just so that 16 man "skilled vets" lol can have their G damn prize, their name on the planets pixel jeez this is the worst thing that can happen it is the barrier of entry for people that are online ATM and want to compete against similar killed vets in 16 man team mode deploy and any form of timers prevents that simple as that veterans community needs their end game mode enabled for instant action 24/7 or else, as i said before, proto stompers proto bears and q syncs will still be terrorizing newbs in pubs from bordom Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3491	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:16:00 - [287] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Based on what facts... it won't happen like that. Also grabbing people out of local to take part in PC is exactly what we want. Please get out of pro club only mentality. We want everyone in PC not just a few. This stuiped pro gamer ides is a large factor that screwed up dust. It should have always been about corps throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other. 24 hour wars mean you recruit till u can plug the gaps. Only idots would count on the same players 24/7 a well run corp will always have men and women it can count on. If that means all the old powers die out so be it. I would rather see PC full of 1000 idots having fun. Than 100 pro gamers who do everything they can to avoid a fight Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps Get your 16 mercs from local and attack someone then. Please post your results. You'll see, that playing with the same corp group of players is very advantageous. The game mode is called Planetary Conquest. Do I need to define, "conquest" for you? I am unable to express how stuiped this comment is. We are not talking about PC right now we talking about how we would like to make it. And that was a repose to a covo while ago I forgot to quote Please try and keep up! It normally involves reading the tread You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1368	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:24:00 - [288] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: bigolenuts wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Based on what facts... it won't happen like that. Also grabbing people out of local to take part in PC is exactly what we want. Please get out of pro club only mentality. We want everyone in PC not just a few. This stuiped pro gamer ides is a large factor that screwed up dust. It should have always been about corps throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other. 24 hour wars mean you recruit till u can plug the gaps. Only idots would count on the same players 24/7 a well run corp will always have men and women it can count on. If that means all the old powers die out so be it. I would rather see PC full of 1000 idots having fun. Than 100 pro gamers who do everything they can to avoid a fight Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps Get your 16 mercs from local and attack someone then. Please post your results. You'll see, that playing with the same corp group of players is very advantageous. The game mode is called Planetary Conquest. Do I need to define, "conquest" for you? I am unable to express how stuiped this comment is. We are not talking about PC right now we talking about how we would like to make it. And that was a repose to a covo while ago I forgot to quote Please try and keep up! It normally involves reading the tread no need, comments from people who do not participate in a mode does not interest me. Not everyone started in PC. Some worked at the game and got in the hard way. Participation medals are what has made todays youth weak, You know why there are no Mexicans on Star Trek? They don't work in the future either.
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 112	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:27:00 - [289] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: bigolenuts wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Based on what facts... it won't happen like that. Also grabbing people out of local to take part in PC is exactly what we want. Please get out of pro club only mentality. We want everyone in PC not just a few. This stuiped pro gamer ides is a large factor that screwed up dust. It should have always been about corps throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other. 24 hour wars mean you recruit till u can plug the gaps. Only idots would count on the same players 24/7 a well run corp will always have men and women it can count on. If that means all the old powers die out so be it. I would rather see PC full of 1000 idots having fun. Than 100 pro gamers who do everything they can to avoid a fight Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps Get your 16 mercs from local and attack someone then. Please post your results. You'll see, that playing with the same corp group of players is very advantageous. The game mode is called Planetary Conquest. Do I need to define, "conquest" for you? I am unable to express how stuiped this comment is. We are not talking about PC right now we talking about how we would like to make it. And that was a repose to a covo while ago I forgot to quote Please try and keep up! It normally involves reading the tread no need, comments from people who do not participate in a mode does not interest me. Not everyone started in PC. Some worked at the game and got in the hard way. Participation medals are what has made todays youth weak, laugh my ass off seriously? really? 5% elite dictating the shut down of game mode for 95% vets geez talking about self entitlement no need to discuss the matter with you any longer... Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1368	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:42:00 - [290] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: bigolenuts wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: bigolenuts wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Based on what facts... it won't happen like that. Also grabbing people out of local to take part in PC is exactly what we want. Please get out of pro club only mentality. We want everyone in PC not just a few. This stuiped pro gamer ides is a large factor that screwed up dust. It should have always been about corps throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other. 24 hour wars mean you recruit till u can plug the gaps. Only idots would count on the same players 24/7 a well run corp will always have men and women it can count on. If that means all the old powers die out so be it. I would rather see PC full of 1000 idots having fun. Than 100 pro gamers who do everything they can to avoid a fight Edit.....so my phone posted this message 6 hours late....opps Get your 16 mercs from local and attack someone then. Please post your results. You'll see, that playing with the same corp group of players is very advantageous. The game mode is called Planetary Conquest. Do I need to define, "conquest" for you? I am unable to express how stuiped this comment is. We are not talking about PC right now we talking about how we would like to make it. And that was a repose to a covo while ago I forgot to quote Please try and keep up! It normally involves reading the tread no need, comments from people who do not participate in a mode does not interest me. Not everyone started in PC. Some worked at the game and got in the hard way. Participation medals are what has made todays youth weak, laugh my ass off seriously? really? 5% elite dictating the shut down of game mode for 95% vets geez talking about self entitlement no need to discuss the matter with you any longer... If there are 95% of you, get them together. See, that is where the problems lies. You guys are lazy. Get together these mercs you claim that are in the game and come to PC. You'd be surprised at how easy it is really. Hell, I gave away all of our districts when we retired. I was practically begging in GD for new corps to come over and at least give it a try. They wouldn't. Main reason was they didn't have proto gear. So according to you, since players put time in the game, made a team of like-minded individuals and practiced tactics, they should be punished. Talk about self entitlement. no need to discuss the matter with you any longer. You know why there are no Mexicans on Star Trek? They don't work in the future either.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3494	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:50:00 - [291] - Quote Zene select username then hide posts. Dude is just trolling. You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 113	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:55:00 - [292] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: Get your 16 mercs from local and attack someone then. Please post your results. You'll see, that playing with the same corp group of players is very advantageous. The game mode is called Planetary Conquest. Do I need to define, "conquest" for you? I am unable to express how stuiped this comment is. We are not talking about PC right now we talking about how we would like to make it. And that was a repose to a covo while ago I forgot to quote Please try and keep up! It normally involves reading the tread[/quote] no need, comments from people who do not participate in a mode does not interest me. Not everyone started in PC. Some worked at the game and got in the hard way. Participation medals are what has made todays youth weak, [/quote] laugh my ass off seriously? really? 5% elite dictating the shut down of game mode for 95% vets geez talking about self entitlement no need to discuss the matter with you any longer... [/quote] If there are 95% of you, get them together. See, that is where the problems lies. You guys are lazy. Get together these mercs you claim that are in the game and come to PC. You'd be surprised at how easy it is really. Hell, I gave away all of our districts when we retired. I was practically begging in GD for new corps to come over and at least give it a try. They wouldn't. Main reason was they didn't have proto gear. So according to you, since players put time in the game, made a team of like-minded individuals and practiced tactics, they should be punished. Talk about self entitlement. no need to discuss the matter with you any longer.[/quote] man seriously this is a closed beta character... been playing few PC as a EU player within US corp named tritan industries before when outer heaven was removing RofL from the MH the issue is and always will be timers locking game mode for instant team deployed action and no defense from your side will change it no one wants your grace ohhh "lord" lots of F. laugh free districts when you retire lol seriously OMFG now you are starting to remind me a delusional person no more comment here needed... people want to be able to jump into the fray when they are ATM in game ready for some PC and not wait for the grace of defender to show up because their district is magically locked it should be simple you don't have the man power to hold your ground 24/7 you will lose it not an abusing timer mechanics because wait i can not play ATM so we will lock them then... Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1368	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:55:00 - [293] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Zene select username then hide posts. Dude is just trolling. typical, consider a response a troll attempt if it does not agree with your ideology. lol This is exactly what I am talking about. Don't stand up for yourself, just ignore the issue and hope/pray someone else fixes it so that you can win on your terms. You do know, regardless of what happens in PC, the top players will remain the top players. Just in case you never thought of that. It may take longer but they will eventually push out the corps that are not versed in tactics and have the players who are not as good. Then you will have another excuse to come on here and cry about PC. I use to play this game, but my dog got sick- Zatara the Pizza Boy
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5815	Posted - 2015.01.22 12:57:00 - [294] - Quote Only 5% of you play this gamemode. You other 95% are lazy!!! Nothing to do with poor NPE, lack of incentives to push team play and/or winning in pubs, nowhere to team deploy at all without spending 50 mil ISK. Makes sense. I live in Texas I hear rationale like this everyday. Usually from people missing teeth, but by God someday they are going to be rich too!! I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 356	Posted - 2015.01.22 13:04:00 - [295] - Quote https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2UsLIbXM7Qs *RED LIGHT*
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1368	Posted - 2015.01.22 13:05:00 - [296] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Only 5% of you play this gamemode. You other 95% are lazy!!! Nothing to do with poor NPE, lack of incentives to push team play and/or winning in pubs, nowhere to team deploy at all without spending 50 mil ISK. Makes sense. I live in Texas I hear rationale like this everyday. Usually from people missing teeth, but by God someday they are going to be rich too!! My "someday" has been here for years. Everything you mentioned above, incentives, team play, etc the people in PC now accomplished. I do understand your complaint. You are salty. You've been at the game forever and have yet to find yourself or corp relevant in any way, shape or form. I do understand changes need to be made. I will agree, PC is not perfect and hard to get into. But by making the path easy what are you really accomplishing? It doesn't make sense to me to hand feed people/corps into it. I am not without ideas on how to make it better. Don't think I am just shooting it down without having something else. I'm just not good at relaying the idea to paper. Over a year ago I had a CPM member FINALLY agree to listen and all that was said was, "would take to much coding and they won't do it". Never heard anything else about it. But, continue taking shots at me for being elitist, having no teeth, etc, etc, etc. I wish you could be 25% as successful as me and have a tenth of the smile I do lol I use to play this game, but my dog got sick- Zatara the Pizza Boy
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2406	Posted - 2015.01.22 13:35:00 - [297] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. I think this is a step in the right direction honestly. Another factor I'd like to see is: Larger the Stakes = Larger the Notice. If you're sending six (6) guys to just cause a ruckus but not actually take anything, I'm totally cool with a one (1) hour timer. Ten (10) guys to cause even more of a ruckus but nothing permanent? Eh, four (4) or six (6) hours couldn't hurt. But if you're sending a full team to try and secure a district take over - full on invasion sort of stuff - the enemy team needs more time to prepare. Yes, because every war ever wasn't started without a telegraphed notice. You mentioned Stront earlier, why not incorporate a mechanic like that? We attack you, you get 5 minutes notice (if that). This first battle determines if we succeed in establishing a beachhead on your District. We succeed and your District goes into RF mode for X hours before coming out of it and being available for attack again (the District should still be raidable while RFed though). Second battle determines if we take the District. This way, there is the element of surprise from the attacker and (if they know how much Stront is in the District) they can dictate when the second battle will occur. However the defenders can guarantee themselves a "preparation window" to get ready for the actual battle. I understand why there needs to be a way to prevent constant District flipping once the owners go to sleep, though there needs to be an element of surprise to the whole affair. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2406	Posted - 2015.01.22 13:46:00 - [298] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: And that is relevant how to the discussion at hand?? Except for the analogy of PC now being like Vehicles then, in which case you may have a winner since while (look it up) the forums were full of trash players QQing about vehicle imbalance I was playing matches and utterly eviscerating ezmode vehicle pilots with my PLC/AV nade combo. While posting that, while imbalanced for sure, vehicles were FAR from invincible OR unkillable. So if I'm LazorFocused, I guess you'd have to beee.... random forum playertrash that doesn't even participate in the gamemode you are trying to dictate settings for. Wow, you really are intellectually challenged aren't you? The analogy had nothing to do with PC v Vehicles and everything to do with you being for PC what Lazer Fo Cused is for Vehicles. Which is to say, inflammatory, needlessly obtuse and excessively narcissistic. I am sorry that you could understand that from the first time I posted it and then felt the need to insult me because I'm not a monosyllabic mouthbreather like you are. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14551	Posted - 2015.01.22 13:56:00 - [299] - Quote I have a problem with the UI. Unless you actively check, it would be very difficult to tell when a PC match is up and coming. The notifications tab is small and to the upper right, you are likely to not even notice it. I would recommend to bring back the old Orbital Strike warning from back in closed beta that was large and bright, and have it display on the screen when a PC match is an hour away and again when it's 30 minutes away, saying "PC BATTLE IN X MINUTES". This will make sure that everyone who is ready to play will notice it in time. Right now players have to send messages constantly pestering everyone, which is a pain in the arse for organization. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1625	Posted - 2015.01.22 14:00:00 - [300] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Only 5% of you play this gamemode. You other 95% are lazy!!! Nothing to do with poor NPE, lack of incentives to push team play and/or winning in pubs, nowhere to team deploy at all without spending 50 mil ISK. Makes sense. I live in Texas I hear rationale like this everyday. Usually from people missing teeth, but by God someday they are going to be rich too!! ^^ I am hoping CCP have it thought out what changes they will make to make pc to go-to gamemode. As it stands, the minority of PC mercs are because it's a race to field the top 16 get paid and repeat so there has only been room left for that 5% while the others pushed aside.. I'm lost at who they should listen to - The vets that have played PC by themselves - The blues who have no idea what PC is - CPM who have no idea what this game is - D1CK's making ill-informed opinions Either way, some won't be happy. But seeing as at one stage the 5% controlled near 100% And still nothing changed shows that the change needs to come from outside whats already failed.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3495	Posted - 2015.01.22 14:01:00 - [301] - Quote ^^ (cat merc) valid point that needs addressing. For the record im ok with buffer timers say. You lose you have 1 hour to get ready for stage 2 if u lose that stage 3 is 10 hours away you lose you lose the D. That allows for plenty of openers and misdirection Edit oh god dammit fourms hate me today You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14553	Posted - 2015.01.22 14:35:00 - [302] - Quote Another useful thing would be the ability to mark yourself as "Active" by going to the battle finder and pressing on that PC match. That way people who are organizing it would have a list of people ready to play, rather than have to ask around and pester people all the time. Could also have a temporary chat for each specific match that would serve a similar purpose. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3496	Posted - 2015.01.22 15:18:00 - [303] - Quote Tbh squad finder fills that role. We should be in a state that any 16 is good enough... But we are dragging this convo off topic You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Psycho Mascara Banished Mercenaries 0	Posted - 2015.01.22 15:22:00 - [304] - Quote What I think they should do with PC is make it like a monopoly or the board game "risk". 1. Just give players that has Corporations districts by random and every month in downtime randomly give corporation districts to fight for more like Dynasty Warriors games does it in Empires. 2. give the CEO of the corporations power by having corps fight not jumping from planet to planet but if they are next to that neribohing area they can only fight for that place across from them. (cause I think that's how NS got some of every districts cause corps can jump from different planets instead of fight a area at a time) 3. I forgot the game name but I know it was done by Sega when they have mechs fight for land. (These are just ideals of games I seen and played that would be a good way for PC to work)
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1369	Posted - 2015.01.22 15:27:00 - [305] - Quote Psycho Mascara wrote: What I think they should do with PC is make it like a monopoly or the board game "risk". 1. Just give players that has Corporations districts by random and every month in downtime randomly give corporation districts to fight for more like Dynasty Warriors games does it in Empires. 2. give the CEO of the corporations power by having corps fight not jumping from planet to planet but if they are next to that neribohing area they can only fight for that place across from them. (cause I think that's how NS got some of every districts cause corps can jump from different planets instead of fight a area at a time) 3. I forgot the game name but I know it was done by Sega when they have mechs fight for land. (These are just ideals of games I seen and played that would be a good way for PC to work) Psycho, just curious. How much experience do you have in PC and how mechanics work there now? Not trolling, just curious. I use to play this game, but my dog got sick- Zatara the Pizza Boy
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5819	Posted - 2015.01.22 16:47:00 - [306] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Only 5% of you play this gamemode. You other 95% are lazy!!! Nothing to do with poor NPE, lack of incentives to push team play and/or winning in pubs, nowhere to team deploy at all without spending 50 mil ISK. Makes sense. I live in Texas I hear rationale like this everyday. Usually from people missing teeth, but by God someday they are going to be rich too!! ^^ I am hoping CCP have it thought out what changes they will make to make pc to go-to gamemode. As it stands, the minority of PC mercs are because it's a race to field the top 16 get paid and repeat so there has only been room left for that 5% while the others pushed aside.. I'm lost at who they should listen to - The vets that have played PC by themselves - The blues who have no idea what PC is - CPM who have no idea what this game is - D1CK's making ill-informed opinions Either way, some won't be happy. But seeing as at one stage the 5% controlled near 100% And still nothing changed shows that the change needs to come from outside whats already failed. The % that controlled 100% of MH was much smaller than that. I'm talking about the current state of PC with the 5%. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5819	Posted - 2015.01.22 16:52:00 - [307] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Only 5% of you play this gamemode. You other 95% are lazy!!! Nothing to do with poor NPE, lack of incentives to push team play and/or winning in pubs, nowhere to team deploy at all without spending 50 mil ISK. Makes sense. I live in Texas I hear rationale like this everyday. Usually from people missing teeth, but by God someday they are going to be rich too!! My "someday" has been here for years. Everything you mentioned above, incentives, team play, etc the people in PC now accomplished. I do understand your complaint. You are salty. You've been at the game forever and have yet to find yourself or corp relevant in any way, shape or form. I do understand changes need to be made. I will agree, PC is not perfect and hard to get into. But by making the path easy what are you really accomplishing? It doesn't make sense to me to hand feed people/corps into it. I am not without ideas on how to make it better. Don't think I am just shooting it down without having something else. I'm just not good at relaying the idea to paper. Over a year ago I had a CPM member FINALLY agree to listen and all that was said was, "would take to much coding and they won't do it". Never heard anything else about it. But, continue taking shots at me for being elitist, having no teeth, etc, etc, etc. I wish you could be 25% as successful as me and have a tenth of the smile I do lol Wasn't taking shots at you. I was referring to the people in Texas that are missing teeth driving a 20 year old pickup but support policies that hurt them and benefit the 5%. I own a construction business in Texas and do pretty well for myself. I'm in the 5%, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the plight of others. It's better for the 5% to have the poors doing well for themselves because they are able to use that money on things that further enrich the 5%. Same applies to PC. I may not be part of a corporation that can take over everything at the drop of the hat, but being in the 5% isn't anything to complain about. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5819	Posted - 2015.01.22 16:57:00 - [308] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Another useful thing would be the ability to mark yourself as "Active" by going to the battle finder and pressing on that PC match. That way people who are organizing it would have a list of people ready to play, rather than have to ask around and pester people all the time. Could also have a temporary chat for each specific match that would serve a similar purpose. Platoon or Team Builder UI would seem to make this much easier. Whomever is building the team doesn't have to ask each squad leader 15x how many people he has or keep track on a piece of paper. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1376	Posted - 2015.01.22 17:12:00 - [309] - Quote The point I am trying to make it is; it seems the game is catering to those who do not want to put the effort in to meet other like-minded players, practice, make allegiances and/or grind it out like those before them did. Again, I can agree changes need to be made. But see how I was responded to here? As soon as I didn't agree I was stupid, not worth carrying on with etc, etc, etc. THAT is the type of player that is being catered to. I don't recall anyone just inviting me into PC. I played a lot, met people and got better. How does that not work now? Hell, there is even FW to practice PC on now. The best we had back then was 8v8 corp battles. Take NS for example. Not spoken to anyone in that corps for months but it is shameful what is happening to them. They are being forced to give up their district or have them taken away by CCP for playing the game the way it was intended. Changes are needed, agreed. But don't make it easy. I use to play this game, but my dog got sick- Zatara the Pizza Boy
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 358	Posted - 2015.01.22 18:51:00 - [310] - Quote Incoming sports metaphor: Dust currently is like high school football with a variety, JV, c squad mentality where JV and c squad get to play when the varsity players finally start to hate dust and take a break. Anyone who played football and can appreciate that also remembers pop warner little league. Where every Saturday am the park was filled with a dozen games going on at the same time. The difference was EVERYONE PLAYED in the end the good kids still went undefeated. Why is that such a bad model? *RED LIGHT*

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5820	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:01:00 - [311] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: The point I am trying to make it is; it seems the game is catering to those who do not want to put the effort in to meet other like-minded players, practice, make allegiances and/or grind it out like those before them did. Again, I can agree changes need to be made. But see how I was responded to here? As soon as I didn't agree I was stupid, not worth carrying on with etc, etc, etc. THAT is the type of player that is being catered to. I don't recall anyone just inviting me into PC. I played a lot, met people and got better. How does that not work now? Hell, there is even FW to practice PC on now. The best we had back then was 8v8 corp battles. Take NS for example. Not spoken to anyone in that corps for months but it is shameful what is happening to them. They are being forced to give up their district or have them taken away by CCP for playing the game the way it was intended. Changes are needed, agreed. But don't make it easy. But the people that pushed through the bad mechanics and lack of corporation interfaces, logistical tools, training grounds etc are outliers. Hence the low population in PC. We ALL complained that CCP rushed Uprising, we complained about the mechanics of PC when they were released. You yourself have quit the game. If things were so great you wouldn't have left. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5820	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:19:00 - [312] - Quote IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: Incoming sports metaphor: Dust currently is like high school football with a variety, JV, c squad mentality where JV and c squad get to play when the varsity players finally start to hate dust and take a break. Anyone who played football and can appreciate that also remembers pop warner little league. Where every Saturday am the park was filled with a dozen games going on at the same time. The difference was EVERYONE PLAYED in the end the good kids still went undefeated. Why is that such a bad model? Roman tried to use the NFL as a metaphor. I said it would be more like the NFL having had a beta. The only place prior to launch for people to play as a team was beta. After launch the only time you could play as a team was vs an NFL team. Despite this clearly being the situation for Dust players I still got the "we are the greatest video game players in history" routine. I take nothing away from the work PC corps put in. I know firsthand, but I also know what it's when there are proper rewards for PC. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1378	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:19:00 - [313] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: bigolenuts wrote: The point I am trying to make it is; it seems the game is catering to those who do not want to put the effort in to meet other like-minded players, practice, make allegiances and/or grind it out like those before them did. Again, I can agree changes need to be made. But see how I was responded to here? As soon as I didn't agree I was stupid, not worth carrying on with etc, etc, etc. THAT is the type of player that is being catered to. I don't recall anyone just inviting me into PC. I played a lot, met people and got better. How does that not work now? Hell, there is even FW to practice PC on now. The best we had back then was 8v8 corp battles. Take NS for example. Not spoken to anyone in that corps for months but it is shameful what is happening to them. They are being forced to give up their district or have them taken away by CCP for playing the game the way it was intended. Changes are needed, agreed. But don't make it easy. But the people that pushed through the bad mechanics and lack of corporation interfaces, logistical tools, training grounds etc are outliers. Hence the low population in PC. We ALL complained that CCP rushed Uprising, we complained about the mechanics of PC when they were released. You yourself have quit the game. If things were so great you wouldn't have left. I left because I felt betrayed by CCP. Remember Fanfest 14? The majority of AE. leaving also played a large part in my leaving. TBH, I always liked the game. It was bad, but very playable IMO. I've been spotted around again the past couple of weeks here and there. I sent you in-game messaages I thought lol There has to be a better way to get people into PC aside from just giving them the path. Tiered is my idea and I think it would work if it could be coded. Get with me in game and I'll explain it. To much for me to type and I don't do a very good job of putting idea to paper. It would get every player in the game involved, protect lower level players from upper players and still provide rewards. I use to play this game, but my dog got sick- Zatara the Pizza Boy
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 159	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:20:00 - [314] - Quote Zene Ren.... You have my Attention! Allow me to introduce myself. Iam Ghostt Shadoww http://imgur.com/O1jxC4j (I'm the Big Mouth and True Real Life Warrior of The Dust Vets) I'm one of the first Logistics character in Dust 514. At one point I Reached as High as 4th all time War Points. (Left with other vets to new games for a couple months) I helped organize the 1000 Clone Army Blitz against Nyain San. And other failed blitzes I was involved in. (Reason for me telling you this will be clear in a moment) Later in my Dust Career I joined Top PC corps. At one point had my very own districts. Mine alone outside of my corp. I have about a Billion ISK am probably one of the most single richest individuals in the game. I have seen vehicles come and go. Glitches exploited to the Max. Frame rate so bad that you learn to fight thru. People swear you are cheating but that's just the Elite Team Communication game play we all learn together. The people speaking in this thread are the LAST Dust Vets left. Majority of these people are my enemy's. Yet we all get together and speak. We do our best every year to make this game more enjoyable for us. As well as the community. Every one of us at one point. Started this game like you. A Dust Bunnie http://imgur.com/YiKIvIT But unlike You Sir. We are not Cowards! ..... Why any of My Dust Brethren even giving you attention this long is beyond me. After 16 pages of reading every comment. I see you must like the easy way out of things. See we have had to learn to establish relationships all across the Globe. http://imgur.com/NrSoTZl .... We have broken speech barriers, culture, time zone differences all types of stuff just to be that 1% http://imgur.com/HTqwoIu that you so lovingly are very jealous of. You want the easy way out. Just to come while people are sleeping. Take what you can and good bye. Wow, what a coward. How my Dust Brethren even talk to you any more. after that was pointed out is beyond me. Yes we are the 1% that learned how to work together http://imgur.com/ZfTCSXS and Become the Elite you wish you were. Mr Ren, it doesn't matter what happens to the Timers. (I'm for Open World FYI) We have adapted from FlayLocks to Bolt Pistols. Mass Drivers destroying Tanks. To Tanks leaping over buildings. When there is a new update. We are the first to logg on. And see what changes are trully made. What is now broken and what did get fixed. Do I need to change my suit load out to benifit update. There so many factors involved to be an Elite PC Player. That any Pub Player will Never understand. Titans of Industri. Really, yeah I'm so listening to what you have to say. What a Joke! Do we (Dust Vets) have more say then the community? I would should sure hope so. If not us then who? The newbs that complain about anything. Any Dust Vet can pick up any Militia weapon and Destroy anyone in Pub. If we want to take Bolt pistols que sync any faction. We would win. Simply becuase we have been here since day one. We know this game like that. We can make any weapon look OP. Even a Plasma cannon. We can run thru maps literally with our eyes closed. We can walk backwards thru any map as if we were walking forward. That's how detailed we know this game. And we are more then fair when it comes to the public. We Want (Dust Vets) everyone possible in PC that can hold at least a 20 man active Roster. To have a spot in PC. All top PC corps can leave PC today. Leave it open for x amount of time. And we can come back and take it ALL at any moment. It takes Isk,skill, teamwork etc etc to take and HOLD land. But you know this Mr. Ren. Hince why you want the easy way out. You want to be a coward and have No Notice and come get what you can and leave in the night. Since you own no land there is no way for anyone to retaliate against you. This is not Eve this is Dust. I can't go hunt you down by name. Kill you and take what you have. So why do you think it's okay. For you to come while a corp is sleeping to take what you want. And No One can come at you for it...pretty much that's what you saying in the 16 pages I have read and for that Sir you are a Coward. And You deserve The Reaper http://imgur.com/rikmsyU I will no longer acknowledge you in this community. And I hope others follow me. You are a Troll, and a Coward. Either, don't deserve any more of My Attention...... ...................................................... Dust Community.........After reading all these pages of comments. Sounds like to me that the public want a way to attack the big boys. And they want to get something out of it. Not only that but some how hurt us in some kind of way.....Sounds like some of you have 6 good players on every day some of you hav 16 some of you have 30. But can't get into PC due to real life time issues. Or you just don't have enough Isk to battle the Vets. Some of you don't want to take the time to make a corporation. Do all the hard work. Go thru u 6 months of building and training. And spy's , and good corps taking your best players. Blah blah blah blah blah....so many factors involved just to be able to one day Attack one of the big guys. To then realize oh my goodness. This is really expensive. How the heck do these top guys fight in PC all day every day. I'll never be able to get them out. Not only do you have to deal with a corp. But it's alliance of 6 to 10 corps all with active bad ass players..... Oh my goodness Dust is so huge how am I ever going to even scratch those big guys. Aaaarrrrrgggggggggggg...... I get it. It's overwhelming I know been there done that. In the game and IRL. So you have some Badasses from COD on Right Now. You have a proto gun and proto suit. You ready and wish you could fight those leaderboard punks....cuz now you have 20sp and you feel hard....but what I said above you just don't want to go thru..... Corp Battles....no major Codeing involved. You already had this system at one Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 159	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:20:00 - [315] - Quote Typed so much cut me off lmao....will finish one sec Ps....yes every pic is real and myself. No Cowardness in this Body Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 159	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:29:00 - [316] - Quote Corp battles..... That will give the community a chance to fight us if they want. Without have to go thru a year of making friends and growing to become a PC force. Now they can fight the best when ever they want win win for both.... As for elites never playing pub ever only PC....that's funny will never happen. We will always play Pubs...Always PC wars burn you out. Imagine PC like that all day everyday only...I don't see it happening. To much Isk will be burned. Someone is going to go broke Take timers off leave them on. I really don't care. My vote take them off. But corp needs notice of Attack. Point is we all need to trully talk about this. If the community wants to battle us but not go thru what we went through to do so. Then bring back corp battles. No Codeing involved that's major, you already had it... Anyways ....what needs to be done is a true group meeting to take place. Across one week. All in a chat room Public Player and Dust Vets and PC players. Come togethe and speak on this matter. Us dust vets can get a council of 5 or 7 no problem made up. To represent Us. And I suggest the Public to get 5 to 7 known names in there community to get togeter make your own counsel. Let us know who they are. And the two groups can meet and talk Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 159	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:32:00 - [317] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless. No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. I'm working on it. Hopefully two counsels can be made. And they can speak with one another. And we can get back with you with some reasonable feed back Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5821	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:33:00 - [318] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: bigolenuts wrote: The point I am trying to make it is; it seems the game is catering to those who do not want to put the effort in to meet other like-minded players, practice, make allegiances and/or grind it out like those before them did. Again, I can agree changes need to be made. But see how I was responded to here? As soon as I didn't agree I was stupid, not worth carrying on with etc, etc, etc. THAT is the type of player that is being catered to. I don't recall anyone just inviting me into PC. I played a lot, met people and got better. How does that not work now? Hell, there is even FW to practice PC on now. The best we had back then was 8v8 corp battles. Take NS for example. Not spoken to anyone in that corps for months but it is shameful what is happening to them. They are being forced to give up their district or have them taken away by CCP for playing the game the way it was intended. Changes are needed, agreed. But don't make it easy. But the people that pushed through the bad mechanics and lack of corporation interfaces, logistical tools, training grounds etc are outliers. Hence the low population in PC. We ALL complained that CCP rushed Uprising, we complained about the mechanics of PC when they were released. You yourself have quit the game. If things were so great you wouldn't have left. I left because I felt betrayed by CCP. Remember Fanfest 14? The majority of AE. leaving also played a large part in my leaving. TBH, I always liked the game. It was bad, but very playable IMO. I've been spotted around again the past couple of weeks here and there. I sent you in-game messaages I thought lol There has to be a better way to get people into PC aside from just giving them the path. Tiered is my idea and I think it would work if it could be coded. Get with me in game and I'll explain it. To much for me to type and I don't do a very good job of putting idea to paper. It would get every player in the game involved, protect lower level players from upper players and still provide rewards. I'm the same way. I think PC dudes see what I type and think I'm wanting Candyland. That is not the case. I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 991	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:43:00 - [319] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Just to be clear: Talented, skilled, and dedicated players that cluster together into cohesive organizations will ALWAYS dominate competitive games. You will not ever formulate a ruleset to make PC "More Inclusive", the best will always rise to the top along whatever rails you provide and will squeeze others out, and you will never stop that. So please do not misplace the desire of having meaningful activities for casual or lesser-skilled players into the PVP end-game of Dust. It's really not hard. You need to introduce mechanics that make holding more territory than you need unhealthy. Well, what you need probably correlates to the size of your organization. What if my organization is composed of 1000 of the best mercenaries in the game? Hey, it's going to be real hard to keep all my mercs clothed and fed, and it looks like I can field multiple teams simultaneously in any given timezone. I'm gonna need a hundred districts or so. Oh hey, what if the 2nd best organization is 5,000 of the next tier of player. They might need a few hundred. What if the 3rd best organization is a semi-competent Zerg of 10k? They might need a thousand. And so on. The result will be another "blue donut" composed of the best players in the game, as usual, because the best are the best, and no ruleset will make a bad team of bad players relevant in an instanced 16v16 FPS. Save the scrub-dreams for PVE and other non-competitive elements. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Ghostt Shadoww Carne Con Papas 159	Posted - 2015.01.22 19:50:00 - [320] - Quote Mr Ratatti, I like the Fuel/Shield idea a lot. Looks like a lot other vets do as well. But might be to expensive for CCP to even get into. But if CCP can do something like this. Be good to know so we not waisting time on a proposal that can't never ever be done. Something Awful is going on around here. Hehe

bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1386	Posted - 2015.01.22 20:05:00 - [321] - Quote As crazy as this might sound. Ghostt makes some sort of sense in his first post of 3/4 lol I use to play this game, but my dog got sick- Zatara the Pizza Boy
Zene Ren Hired Ghost 115	Posted - 2015.01.22 20:21:00 - [322] - Quote Ghostt Shadoww wrote: bunch of crap tritan industries to be frank open beta PC corp never a top dog yet still owners of some district back then and an active PC players for some time, i wasn't taking the credit i was simply referring to someone that was stating i just came here... true life warrior, please do not make me laugh, irrelevant sorry man we can always meet in person and we can talk those things out such statements and bunch of random photos do not impress nor they make your arguments any more valid to me i could even call this behaviour a bit different but i am too old for that... sorry again but your isk mostly farmed because of abusing the system that was out after 1.0v of the game does not impress me either sorry calling a coward someone that you know nothing of, is really a sign of intellectual impotence IMO, keep it up though and cheers (you do not impress me with that one too) easy is and it probably was for every defender in a multi time zone game with one server and one community to artificially lock most districts so that only your "1337" group could defend them because when it would require to build a multi time zone alliance you would not be on that ISK level with you higher authority attitude yes keep telling yourself that the 95% of the rest will never understand what you know or don't, man seriously now you're just funny in not a positive way i will leave the rest to your imagination... "Simply because we have been here since day one" you are not unique with that but maybe if you will repeat that more often to yourself you can feel like that for real... "We Want (Dust Vets) everyone possible in PC that can hold at least a 20 man active Roster. To have a spot in PC. All top PC corps can leave PC today. Leave it open for x amount of time. And we can come back and take it ALL at any moment. It takes Isk,skill, teamwork etc etc to take and HOLD land."- this will never work good in multi time zone environment, it would if every region had its own server nice thing you read my comments though... "But you know this Mr. Ren. Hince why you want the easy way out." if you seriously think that the game would be easy when no timers rule would be applied man you're just wrong completely opposite, we would have situation, at last, that promotes attackes and not COWARD defenders behind timers, cowards that not once or twice abused the system to get this ISK status that you're so proud of having "You want to be a coward and have No Notice and come get what you can and leave in the night" never said no notice, alliance tools to be able to respond and proper structure to defend your land 24/7 w/o an ability to abuse one way or another "Since you own no land there is no way for anyone to retaliate against you. This is not Eve this is Dust" again "elite" mentality ego maniac i am not talking and was not talking about myself nor i was referring to me learn to understand what you read... "So why do you think it's okay. For you to come while a corp is sleeping to take what you want." multi time zone server/game the create multi time zone alliance for security 24\7 tough guy no comments further needed and you cowards want to stay behind timer locks to show your e peen pixel districts man you're my hero (not) lol keep telling yourself you're special though Ghostt Shadoww wrote: Dust Community.........After reading all these pages of comments. Sounds like to me that the public want a way to attack the big boys. And they want to get something out of it. Not only that but some how hurt us in some kind of way.....Sounds like some of you have 6 good players on every day some of you hav 16 some of you have 30. But can't get into PC due to real life time issues. Or you just don't have enough Isk to battle the Vets. Some of you don't want to take the time to make a corporation. Do all the hard work. Go thru u 6 months of building and training. And spy's , and good corps taking your best players. Blah blah blah blah blah....so many factors involved just to be able to one day Attack one of the big guys. To then realize oh my goodness. This is really expensive. How the heck do these top guys fight in PC all day every day. I'll never be able to get them out. Not only do you have to deal with a corp. But it's alliance of 6 to 10 corps all with active bad ass players..... Oh my goodness Dust is so huge how am I ever going to even scratch those big guys. Aaaarrrrrgggggggggggg...... I get it. It's overwhelming I know been there done that. In the game and IRL. So you have some Badasses from COD on Right Now. You have a proto gun and proto suit. You ready and wish you could fight those leaderboard punks....cuz now you have 20sp and you feel hard....but what I said above you just don't want to go thru..... Corp Battles....no major Codeing involved. You already had this system at one i am responding because you called me out thinking about yourself you're special grow up pls... no one will be able to jump in and win those "big boys" they will be able to attack you though if they got ISK and train and please don't worry about ISK of others not only you abused the time when it was really profitable seriously i am starting to think of you a lot less then before i got to the part you called me a coward now you're just delusional too many hours in virtual world probably... while i agree with one thing skirmish 1.0 and corp battles would be welcomed addition again along with raiding and no timers Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 767	Posted - 2015.01.22 20:29:00 - [323] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And that is relevant how to the discussion at hand?? Except for the analogy of PC now being like Vehicles then, in which case you may have a winner since while (look it up) the forums were full of trash players QQing about vehicle imbalance I was playing matches and utterly eviscerating ezmode vehicle pilots with my PLC/AV nade combo. While posting that, while imbalanced for sure, vehicles were FAR from invincible OR unkillable. So if I'm LazorFocused, I guess you'd have to beee.... random forum playertrash that doesn't even participate in the gamemode you are trying to dictate settings for. Wow, you really are intellectually challenged aren't you? The analogy had nothing to do with PC v Vehicles and everything to do with you being for PC what Lazer Fo Cused is for Vehicles. Which is to say, inflammatory, needlessly obtuse and excessively narcissistic. I am sorry that you could understand that from the first time I posted it and then felt the need to insult me because I'm not a monosyllabic mouthbreather like you are. Sure, kid. You're the intellectual litmus for all of DUST514, anyone that doesn't think so is an intellectually challenged mouth breather and PC is bad or wrong somehow. I'm not sorry that I, in my mouthbreathing, intellectual inferiority, have been able to learn DUST, work at it and earn a place in PC. Didn't happen overnight, didn't happen by crying about it not being fair, didn't happen by talking down the other people who worked to get it done. Fact is, for all your intellectual superiority and my inflammatory inferiority, YOU were the individual to start with the negative associations, while I AM one of the few individuals in this conversation who've been able to find solutions to problems instead of just crying about the existence of problems. idgaf who LazorFocused is, how he expressed himself somewhere else at some other time, igaf that some scrub bullshitter like you, who has already said he never wanted **** to do with PC NOW wants to turn around and dictate ANY evolutionary element to it. All so that when it (again) isn't exactly how you want it to be you can be a dismissive whiner and cry on the forums about it while I go relearn the skills to be successful and move forward Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2409	Posted - 2015.01.22 20:54:00 - [324] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Sure, kid. You're the intellectual litmus for all of DUST514, anyone that doesn't think so is an intellectually challenged mouth breather and PC is bad or wrong somehow. I'm not sorry that I, in my mouthbreathing, intellectual inferiority, have been able to learn DUST, work at it and earn a place in PC. Didn't happen overnight, didn't happen by crying about it not being fair, didn't happen by talking down the other people who worked to get it done. Fact is, for all your intellectual superiority and my inflammatory inferiority, YOU were the individual to start with the negative associations, while I AM one of the few individuals in this conversation who've been able to find solutions to problems instead of just crying about the existence of problems. idgaf who LazorFocused is, how he expressed himself somewhere else at some other time, igaf that some scrub bullshitter like you, who has already said he never wanted **** to do with PC NOW wants to turn around and dictate ANY evolutionary element to it. All so that when it (again) isn't exactly how you want it to be you can be a dismissive whiner and cry on the forums about it while I go relearn the skills to be successful and move forward Aww, is the open beta newb mad now? Want to know why I never had a desire to participate in PC? Because I knew from the DevBlog before it was released that it was going to be a rushed POS popularity contest. Want to know why I am adding my two cents now? Because I hope that PC2.0 is something that surpasses the garbage that PC1.0 is/was and IMHO some of the ideas I've had will help that to occur. Even if it isn't the ideal scenario I picture it to be in mind, I will participate in PC2.0. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 768	Posted - 2015.01.22 21:41:00 - [325] - Quote Since no thread was opened by Rattati or CPM looking for PC improvement feedback that I can recall, aside from the current "This is what we're doing, discuss" stickies, I'll leave some input here. PC improvements: 1)open the starmap up. I suggested this earlier, later saw a response but didn't find it when looking to respond to it just now. Open The StarMap Up. Molden Heath is already proven as a very small space for the sort or dynamic interactions ANY ground-based element of EVE online should have. There are hundreds of systems, a couple thousand planets and the existing lore easily accomodates the idea of fledgling corps existing in districts on planetary surfaces immune to disruption (HiSec) where they are protected and can learn and grow while more advanced and experienced groups exist elsewhere (Low or NullSec), risking more by being there but earning more also. 2) Districts having value beyond simple isk or clones. Passive isk, while the easiest, is a proven bad idea, ruining not just internal corp dynamics ( people demanding paychecks since the corp has districts) but a large part of the NPE in public modes (protostompers). Clones being generated I don't think has been bad, the districtnmakes clones that are sent to attack other districts and fighting the battle gets everyone involved paid, relative to their ability to be individually profitable in general. Again, not bad IMO, but still lacking a certain relevence insofar as the greater ideas of wealth or wealth generation are concerned. Personally I don't care really "what" the particular widget is that makes a district valuable, be it fuel, nanites, clones, raw somethinganium that Capsuleers use, PSN codes, w/e. Just ensure districts are worth fighting over. 3) Timers have proven worthwhile but tricky. True, full scale PC battles should NOT occur at the drop of a hat. Anybody claiming a timer-less "raiding" system will produce this is either completely inexperienced in current PC, lying to themselves and others or both. Current PC mechanics allow for the gathering of PC teams, YES. Sometimes, this means for an attacker that they face the same people sometimes, YES. And they people they face are skilled, competent TEAM members, YES. SO, the battles are tough. They are competitive. They are NOT going to be the rabblegroup from a pub or FW. AND they shouldn't be. The time delay between attack sent and barge opening ensures those best competition groups can be formed. The trick, as I see, is for Timers to enable attacks to occur within windows created by DEFENDERS not attackers. Maybe instead of 1 timer, with 1 open hour window and + or - this or that its 1 timer with 4 thirty minute windows, allowing the owner to open a district for 2 hours concurrent OR some mix in half-hour blocks around the clock. Either way, the district is open for more time and for smaller groups whose memberbase is spread globally they can dial more finely their times to ensure they have their coverages. 3) The actual PC gamemode itself could use a change away from just being a skirmish match. Someone, somewhere, some other time proposed an idea that would make a PC battle basically all 3 current gamemodes combined, an Ambush to beachhead, a Dom to reinforce and a Skirm to invade. I like this idea a lot, especially if the maps themselves canj be run across end to end, the bush area borders the dom area and you RUN your ass from one to the other. 4) I'm down for district hit-n-run raids being available 24/7 with a couple caveats: - Raiding is performed by 1 squad, 6 people or the 8 that was proposed as an increase for PC/FW elsewhere. The group that deploys on the raid is the only group allowed, no switching or being joined by another party. -Raid Defending is performed by up to 16. Whoever is available can defend, up to PC team limit max. -Raiders, win or lose, keep whatever salvage they generate based off of what they destroy. -Defenders, win or lose, get paid isk automatically from their corps' wallet commiserate to standard pub dom scale. -Raiders, in killing clones, are potentially able to reduce the physical clone count on a district while... -Defenders, in killing Raiders, are able to destroy individual Raiders' WarBarges . Individual Raider falls below a certain clonecount, his barge is what gets destroyed. No barge, no raiding or any other activity in MH until the barge is replaced. (buy a new one from Concord or whoever makes the things in the first place) -The mode itself is basically a Dom, with the attack triggering a barge entrance for the Raiders and an open contract alert/deployment for the Defenders where the Defenders spawn into an already all blue point and map near the console and the Raiders spawn at the traditional Dom spawnpoints. 6) The WarBarge/Flotilla element is a cool idea, I've been watching that thread some though not saying a lot since it's still "in the rough". Incorporating it and the easy to grasp physical location element that, properly created and deployed, the idea brings will work wonders at surpassing some of existing issues people seem to have with PC while bypassing potential problems/imbalances other idea Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 768	Posted - 2015.01.22 21:45:00 - [326] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Sure, kid. You're the intellectual litmus for all of DUST514, anyone that doesn't think so is an intellectually challenged mouth breather and PC is bad or wrong somehow. I'm not sorry that I, in my mouthbreathing, intellectual inferiority, have been able to learn DUST, work at it and earn a place in PC. Didn't happen overnight, didn't happen by crying about it not being fair, didn't happen by talking down the other people who worked to get it done. Fact is, for all your intellectual superiority and my inflammatory inferiority, YOU were the individual to start with the negative associations, while I AM one of the few individuals in this conversation who've been able to find solutions to problems instead of just crying about the existence of problems. idgaf who LazorFocused is, how he expressed himself somewhere else at some other time, igaf that some scrub bullshitter like you, who has already said he never wanted **** to do with PC NOW wants to turn around and dictate ANY evolutionary element to it. All so that when it (again) isn't exactly how you want it to be you can be a dismissive whiner and cry on the forums about it while I go relearn the skills to be successful and move forward Aww, is the open beta newb mad now? Want to know why I never had a desire to participate in PC? Because I knew from the DevBlog before it was released that it was going to be a rushed POS popularity contest. Want to know why I am adding my two cents now? Because I hope that PC2.0 is something that surpasses the garbage that PC1.0 is/was and IMHO some of the ideas I've had will help that to occur. Even if it isn't the ideal scenario I picture it to be in mind, I will participate in PC2.0. LOl, sure, scrub. Obligatory, " If We Lower the Bar Enough You'll GOML" comment. And I've no doubt you'll be in PC 2.0, you'll need the credibility when you return to the forums with your QQ and renewed promise to never participate. Not that it matters to me, you fail now, you'll fail then. GG Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2410	Posted - 2015.01.22 22:47:00 - [327] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Self-Important Tripe You're still on this? You simply want to derail this thread further and have stopped "contributing". While you're fumbling to insult me and look cool, I'll be trying to be constructive. On Topic: Timers should exist as fuel with little to no timer for the initial assault though the main attack shouldn't occur until after the fuel runs out (if the attackers win the initial assault) Seriously though, when German National Socialists invaded Poland in 1939 did they send a telegraph first saying: Hello, We're going to come visit you next week for genocide and annexation. Prepare thy anus. --Sincerely, Adolph H. No, they didn't, warning is only something you should get if you can turn one of the attackers so they inform you or by planting a spy of your own in their organization. As I said earlier in the thread, I understand the need for some "delay the final battle" mechanic, though to have that delay occur before aggressions have is just asinine. Even if it is requiring people to attack within an 8 hour window, that in effect is still warning since the aggressors will be attacking when the defenders choose to allow them the opportunity. Giving little to no warning will keep corps vigilant. Requiring Fuel to delay the seizure attempt is a reasonable timer in that it gives the defenders an amount of time that they can control in which to gather their troops (whether they be corporate members or independent contractors). This allows attackers to still retain the element of surprise while also giving the defenders a way to actively delay the attack on their District. Ad Space Available Here 1m Isk/day Mail me message after transferring Isk (sig updated upon transfer completion)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 769	Posted - 2015.01.22 23:26:00 - [328] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Self-Important Tripe Timers should exist as fuel with little to no timer for the initial assault though the main attack shouldn't occur until after the fuel runs out (if the attackers win the initial assault) Seriously though, when German National Socialists invaded Poland in 1939 did they send a telegraph first saying: Hello, We're going to come visit you next week for genocide and annexation. Prepare thy anus. --Sincerely, Adolph H. No, they didn't, warning is only something you should get if you can turn one of the attackers so they inform you or by planting a spy of your own in their organization. As I said earlier in the thread, I understand the need for some "delay the final battle" mechanic, though to have that delay occur before aggressions have is just asinine. Even if it is requiring people to attack within an 8 hour window, that in effect is still warning since the aggressors will be attacking when the defenders choose to allow them the opportunity. Giving little to no warning will keep corps vigilant. Requiring Fuel to delay the seizure attempt is a reasonable timer in that it gives the defenders an amount of time that they can control in which to gather their troops (whether they be corporate members or independent contractors). This allows attackers to still retain the element of surprise while also giving the defenders a way to actively delay the attack on their District. 1. Early warning systems not present in 1939 should be present in 20Million AD. Even if those systems are just some piece of communication intercept software that "sees" the aggressor troop movements and "warns" the intended target. Same with some form of sub-orbital defense network that keeps an enemy MCC/Flotilla from coming too close. 2. Attackers HAVE the element of suprise NOW, if you actually tried the game you'd be well aware that front corps occassionally are used to stage attacks, with the actual attack force being "ferried" in and the defending group has no idea who is actually going to meet them on the field until they load onto the barge OR INTO the battle itself. Only missing "surprise" element is the "when" which, if you're actually interested in having a fight with a PC Team and not an empty/noob battle, you wouldn't want it like that anyway. 3. IF you're unable to field a worthwhile group OR take part in one, there isn't a timer modification in the world that is going to help you. You can keep trying to turn territory "possession" into a constant flipflop back and forth between players on different sides of the planet, but the final outcome will be no-one owns anything, so no district generates anything, so no district is worth being fought over. Besides being able to brag, "Yeah we beat them all right. Went right over when no-one was there and beat them." Totally useless in any way in facillitating DUST being more than a simple lobby shooter. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 1392	Posted - 2015.01.23 03:44:00 - [329] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Self-Important Tripe You're still on this? You simply want to derail this thread further and have stopped "contributing". While you're fumbling to insult me and look cool, I'll be trying to be constructive. On Topic: Timers should exist as fuel with little to no timer for the initial assault though the main attack shouldn't occur until after the fuel runs out (if the attackers win the initial assault) Seriously though, when German National Socialists invaded Poland in 1939 did they send a telegraph first saying: Hello, We're going to come visit you next week for genocide and annexation. Prepare thy anus. --Sincerely, Adolph H. No, they didn't, warning is only something you should get if you can turn one of the attackers so they inform you or by planting a spy of your own in their organization. As I said earlier in the thread, I understand the need for some "delay the final battle" mechanic, though to have that delay occur before aggressions have is just asinine. Even if it is requiring people to attack within an 8 hour window, that in effect is still warning since the aggressors will be attacking when the defenders choose to allow them the opportunity. Giving little to no warning will keep corps vigilant. Requiring Fuel to delay the seizure attempt is a reasonable timer in that it gives the defenders an amount of time that they can control in which to gather their troops (whether they be corporate members or independent contractors). This allows attackers to still retain the element of surprise while also giving the defenders a way to actively delay the attack on their District. Actually, Adolf demanded that the British not interfere with his plans to annex Poland yet a treaty between Britain, Poland and France had already been signed. **** renounced his non-aggression act with Poland then demanded again the British not interfere, wanted protection for German Poles, etc, etc, etc and then said ** it and invaded anyway. So yeah, there was an early warning system considering. I use to play this game, but my dog got sick- Zatara the Pizza Boy
hfderrtgvcd 1771	Posted - 2015.01.23 03:48:00 - [330] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Self-Important Tripe You're still on this? You simply want to derail this thread further and have stopped "contributing". While you're fumbling to insult me and look cool, I'll be trying to be constructive. On Topic: Timers should exist as fuel with little to no timer for the initial assault though the main attack shouldn't occur until after the fuel runs out (if the attackers win the initial assault) Seriously though, when German National Socialists invaded Poland in 1939 did they send a telegraph first saying: Hello, We're going to come visit you next week for genocide and annexation. Prepare thy anus. --Sincerely, Adolph H. No, they didn't, warning is only something you should get if you can turn one of the attackers so they inform you or by planting a spy of your own in their organization. As I said earlier in the thread, I understand the need for some "delay the final battle" mechanic, though to have that delay occur before aggressions have is just asinine. Even if it is requiring people to attack within an 8 hour window, that in effect is still warning since the aggressors will be attacking when the defenders choose to allow them the opportunity. Giving little to no warning will keep corps vigilant. Requiring Fuel to delay the seizure attempt is a reasonable timer in that it gives the defenders an amount of time that they can control in which to gather their troops (whether they be corporate members or independent contractors). This allows attackers to still retain the element of surprise while also giving the defenders a way to actively delay the attack on their District. giving little to no warning will mean ringer use will increase drastically and small corps will be pushed out of pc. Is that what you really want? Only raids should be launched with little to no warning. Flipping a district should require a 24 hour notice You can't fight in here! This is the war room.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 573	Posted - 2015.01.23 07:00:00 - [331] - Quote The warning time is minimum 24h in PC today, right? (honestly not sure how it works as I don't play PC..., yeah I know... I'm one of those people...) I.e. if you declare an attack on a district @09:00 which has a timer window @15:00 the same day, do you need to wait 30h before the battle starts, or just 6h? For the sake of argument I am assuming its 30h, so please correct me if I am wrong. What if the declaration time to battle (i.e. minimum warning time) was reduced drastically, and the warning time was based on the timer itself? - So if a defending corporation sets a very narrow window of opportunity (1h), you can declare an attack very short time before (2-4h), giving little warning and preparation time. Basically the corporation is stating, Yes, you can only attack us at this specific time, but we will be prepared. - If a defending corporation sets a larger window of opportunity (4h) in which the attackers can specify a specific time, the minimum time to declare an attack (warning) is increased (8-16h). "We don't know the exact time of the battle, but we will have more time to prepare" TDLR: Small attack window = short preparation time Large attack window = Longer preparation time Combine the above with: A corporation can only select one timer window which applies to all owned districts. This means small corps can take one district and put a very narrow attack window, and defend it properly. But if they want to expand with more districts, they either need to keep the attack window small, resulting in near simultaneous attacks (requiring more people), or expand the attack window and need to be vigilant for a longer duration. The possibility of simultaneous attacks still exists with a larger attack window, but you would have more time to prepare. It would be increasingly more difficult to hold many districts unless you have many players ready to step in and defend. It also would give corporations the option to select which option suites them better, regardless of size. Just a thought....

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15519	Posted - 2015.01.23 07:06:00 - [332] - Quote We are closing this thread, as we have resolved the feedback into a Proposal, found here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=188510&find=unread "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



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