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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1047
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Posted - 2015.01.21 06:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:With regards to raiding: I definitely agree that is the area to work on low-warning more-flexible battles, and something I really want to see. Locking down timers for capture battles is a quick change, and allows us to move on into developing features like that with more flexibility. If we get hung up on a very complicated timer system for capture battles with moving timers and windows and crud, I think it'd delay CCP's ability to fix other issues with PC or get more PC content out. There was a meeting of minds today of pretty much every major leader in Planetary Conquest happened to be there. They agree that PC needs to be addressed, but the opinion was unanimous that region locking timers is a bad idea. Some of those in attendance: Arirana, Badgerr Ragerr, dy5t0pia, Evan Gotabor, Ghostt Shadoww, Gilgamesh iBUN, Hawkin Pete, Kalante Schiffer, Kane Spero, Kardia Scorpio, Maylar Snow, Mr Machine Guns, Noktix Luxifer, Poncho Polous, Roman837, saxonmish, Shepherd Grey, Shiyou Hidiyoshi, Silver Strike44, SoTa PoP, TheD1CK, Viktor Hadah, xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx, Zaria MinDeir, Ydubbs81 RND, and others. Corps big and small, casual and elite, people that combined have 1,000s of hours of experience having to deal with Planetary Conquest and it's faults and would like nothing more than to see it flourish. These folks currently involved in planetary conquest do want to see new people be brought into the system and many have even been trying to even give districts away but struggle to find interested parties. Some don't have districts right now but would like to have their names on the map. There is excitement about coming changes to planetary conquest but they don't want to see mechanics like fixed timers potentially mess up that recovery. For these folks goals like owning a planet are something to aspire to and for many geography and placement really does matter. The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem  I'm kidding, but you know
Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1054
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Posted - 2015.01.21 20:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do you people really not get what will happen in planetary conquest if a completely timerless system is implemented?
No shows. More and more no shows. Because some people want to play with their friends, make corps with people they actually like playing with, not recruit hundreds and hundreds of players just to make up numbers.
Great, fine, let's go with the argument that no one should be allowed to own a district if they can't be on to defend it 24/7. Great for those of you who just see PC as a way to farm resources to give you an edge in pubs, what better way to do that than go and attack a district while its owners are at work, asleep, whatever. No effort, just need to keep different hours than your target.
Some of us are in PC because we enjoy playing matches that challenge us. We enjoy putting together a team to try and beat another team, not get thrown against randoms by Scotty.
So, fine, let's make PC not about competitive matches, but just about resource farming.
Can we then at least get another game mode? Give us back corp battles? Something, for those of us who actually want to play against people and not trade districts back and forth in a series of no shows?
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1055
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Posted - 2015.01.21 22:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:
Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless.
No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.
This very response proves you have not been paying very much attention. And by your tone, one can only assume you really aren't that interested in rectifying that anyway.
There is no "PC lobby" to present a "collective proposal"... There are players who have opinions, based on experiences in game. Different players have different opinions, there is no one agreed upon proposal all current and past PC players can give you wrapped in a neat, easily digestible package.
Your attitude seems basically the same as Soraya's in this matter, which saddens me. Please try to understand this: just because someone doesn't think your proposal is good, and points out what they concider its flaws, it doesn't mean they think the current system is awesome, either. It has already been estalished that change is needed, that was established among most PC players ages ago. We are not discussing maintaining the present state as an option, so why pretend that anyone who critises a specific proposal is doing it just to protect the status quo?
Many of us have already chimed in to say that Pokey's proposal is pretty much closest to an actually working proposal we have encountered. Others have chimed in to disagree. I personally don't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel, when someone has already done the work. Though, I do see a critical flaw in Pokey's proposal, which is why it quite likelly never make it very far. It would require some effort from the developers 
A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Many alternative suggestions have been proposed, some of them bad, some of them less bad, almost all of them better than region locking in my opinion. The only thing worse than region locking is removing timers entirely, my reasons for thinking so are explained earlier in this thread.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1056
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Posted - 2015.01.21 23:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Zaria, here's my problem with this: Nobody can tell me why it's not a good solution, other than it's different from what we have now, and people are resistant to change. Arguments like "taking away choice" or "violating the sandbox" are generally invalid, because games are built on limits, and if a function is not assisting gameplay, it needs to die. I've heard ONE good argument against locking down timer changes, and that's the potential for it to interfere with the "location matters" goal, but that's likely not to be an immediate issue anyways. And if we turn changing timers off, we can still turn it back on later, when the mode is developed further. So even if this did become a problem, I'd be inclined to lock it down for now, and iterate on it, and reopen the capability later. Loss aversion is a huge psychological thing. People are very resistant to losing things or options, even if the alternative is actually better. It's a human nature thing.
Location does matter. PC is, in the end, player created contect, and giving value to arbitrary things is what drives that.
Location does also matter if there is any eve interaction (as there is now), if there is any effect of distance on attacing (the way there is clone attrition now) etc.
Also. You saying that an argument is invalid because you feel like it doesn't actually make it so. Your opinion is also just an opinion, like all of ours. You can keep repeating the phrase "your argument is invalid" at everyone who disagrees with you, but you're not actually convincing anyone of anything by doing so.
And, sure. We can go with whatever system now, there is always an option to change it later How long does it usually take CCP to get around to these things, if we look at the history of Dust?
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1058
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Posted - 2015.01.21 23:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
Well to be fair, isn't that middle ground supposed to be FacWar or PC Raiding? And then Conquest being the most challenging?
Yes, it's supposed to be. Which is why it is particularly ridiculous that so many people want to make sure that PC becomes a way to spin up matches at will where you can almost quarantee there will be no opposition present at all, let alone something you'll have to work at to beat.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1062
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Posted - 2015.01.21 23:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Holy ****. What part of "WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS IN ALL THE TIME ZONES TO MAKE TRUE MULTI-TIME ZONE ALLIANCES" are you not getting? If we had 50,000 players logging in and playing daily I would actually probably agree with you *but we dont*. Yeah there will be total and utter chaos, and then 90% of the people will say "**** this, it's cheaper to just play pubs!" and we'll be right back to where we are now.c Not good enough to take a district in PC? Just do it at a weird time when they're not online! But that's ok because the group that's better than you that you ganked the district from will come right back and kick you in the teeth anyways and take it back. What you want is a place for a group to deploy as a 16 man team to learn teamwork and practice for PC. What you're asking for is to turn PC into a training ground rather than a competative enviroment. What I'm offering is allowing part of PC to be used for training without completely undermining the competative nature of PC. Want to give your new guys a chance to train? Put them in charge of defending against Raids. Want to give your vets a change to fight against the best of the best? Put them in charge of defending against Conquest. If your corporation is not good enough to forcefully take a district without making use of ambush attacks, then they are not good enough to defend that district.
This, so much this.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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