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Flyingconejo
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1142
   |
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:19:00 -
[151] - Quote
Timers are not the problem. Low PC population is. Juggle with the timers all you want, in the end, it wont change anything, and PC will still be empty save for the 100-150 players that have always been there. There are not enough players to make the current system work. There are not enough players to make any of the proposed changes work.
You have focused so much in making your game hard that forgot to make it fun.
For most players trying to get into PC, they get a very low Fun/Effort ratio.
PC battles are the best thing this game has to offer, but for most new corps, it takes too much time to get good enough so they can start having fun with them, and they give up, never to come back.
Give them an intermediate step where they can train and have fun. FW is not good enough because you can't choose your opponent, so bring back the corp battle system from the open beta, but with 16 vs 16, with both sides knowing who they are going to fight beforehand, and very low stakes beyond the equipment used. That would be fun and help people prepare for PC.
And being in PC should offer something to district owners that would compel them to bother with it instead of playing in the minor, corp battle league.
That's my 2 cents. Anyway, for me PC is broken at its core from the start, so any band aid you try will have very little effect, apart from starting over from zero. If you are not going to do that, you might as well leave it as is. |
el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
756
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:23:00 -
[152] - Quote
Zene Ren wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district
Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then *big inhale* we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! *big inhale* WAAAAAA!!!!!"
Open-Beta Vet.
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This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1760
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:29:00 -
[153] - Quote
Get rid of the timers.
You want PC to be fun?
Get rid of the timers.
Give a 30 minute warning to the corp being attacked.
Watch PC turn into an actual conquest mode.
Go Here
and vote! 1 like is 1 vote!
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Zene Ren
Hired Ghost
106
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:32:00 -
[154] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Zene Ren wrote:
they will struggle to get other time zone corps but it will not be impossible like it is now with any form of timers and locks
yes you 're contradicting yourself a bit because you over estimate other regions fighting force and then try to put fear into people that stay behind open mechanic by crating artificial scenarios although they are better then constantly abusing timers mechanic to rule them all by it
it still be always open to play for underdogs that want to do only PC and the wheels will turn all the time
yes but then they did not have any alliance tools to respond for an attack on any of their corp districts beside mailing and pub channels and that is not enough
where is the sense in playing PC if it is always closed for participants creating other issues for other game modes?
Im not creating artificial scenarios, I'm staying that there is not enough of a player balance globally for everyone to properly defend all time zones, this is a fact. There are other options that can deal with the Timer associated issue other than simply removing them. For the sake of discussion, could you please clearly list out the issues you see with the current timer mechanic so I can offer up solutions?
there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM
sorry pokey but you can not anything with this with timers
PC was meant to be a replacement for corp battles and with timers people can not play their game mode of choice when and where they want because 5% lock districts with the entitlement of IT IS MINE
Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
756
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:34:00 -
[155] - Quote
Put simply, PC right now has the LOWEST bar for entry it ever has ( we give districts away for FREE) , the best conditions for a sustained presence from ANY group (the widely PC community agreed upon, accepted, and enforced "Last District Rule") as well as a wealth of diversity in corp strengths, open to attack timer spreads and extra available manpower if needed.
All this talk about, " Oh yeah, well just get some corp members from a different timezone" can be applied just as justifiably to any noobcorp trying to get in and not seeing a timer they can field a challenge to.
All this talk about, "Oh yeah, well just join an alliance that will help you" can also be applied just as justifiably to any noobcorp trying to get in and not seeing a corp whose memberbase they can field a challenge to.
Quite frankly, from what I've seen of PC the last two years, both from outside it as well as inside it, if you can't plant a flag in it right now then you aren't competent enough as a player to realistically ever expect to.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Zene Ren
Hired Ghost
106
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Zene Ren wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then *big inhale* we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! *big inhale* WAAAAAA!!!!!"
man seriously are you some kind of Pokeys parrot attorney? you know you don't have to be, pls keep it civil and i can respond w/o any issue
the artificial scenario is: people want to play only PC because they are online they have enough SP and they have the team and with timers it is not possible simple as that
Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4452
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:35:00 -
[157] - Quote
Zene Ren wrote:there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM
Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Zene Ren
Hired Ghost
106
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:37:00 -
[158] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Zene Ren wrote:there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it?
players with the right amount of SP, team mates, and time at the moment they are online, want to queue for PC and play that mode
this is not possible with timers
Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
|
el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
756
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:Get rid of the timers.
You want PC to be fun?
Get rid of the timers.
Give a 30 minute warning to the corp being attacked.
Watch PC turn into an actual conquest mode.
LOOOOOLOLOLOL YES! The tears!! The delicious tears that will fall!!! PC will be the absolute EPITOME of a protostomped pub!!! And then, when tired, the stompers will retire back to casually protostomping ACTUAL pubs!!! LOL, its the Snake That Eats its Tail!!!! LOOOOOoL!1!1!111!!
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2403
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:38:00 -
[160] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Zene Ren wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then *big inhale* we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! *big inhale* WAAAAAA!!!!!"
Wow, you need reading comprehension.
He is basically stating that if there were a "Surprise Raiding" mechanic a new breed of PC participant could arise.
The Pirate.
We don't hold land (**** that, let you greedy bastards pay the Sov bill*), we can't be kicked out because we don't hold land and we can still run a profit at your expense while you're off making yourself feel good by being "competitive" with the other mouthbreathers.
What don't you understand about that? Who will your "Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad" corps attack in retaliation while we're raiding your District while you're off attacking someone else?
Not everyone who wants to play PC wants to hold land, only the "competitive" apes who need pixels to be proud of will be pursuing that (or their sycophants).
*Here's hoping that CCP does include a Sov Bill mechanic
Please Rattati, please.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4452
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:41:00 -
[161] - Quote
Zene Ren wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Zene Ren wrote:there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it? players with the right amount of SP, team mates, and time at the moment they are online, want to queue for PC and play that mode this is not possible with timers
So...so we're clear, you want people to be able to attack a district at any time of the day with minimal notice?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
4314
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:44:00 -
[162] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Zene Ren wrote:
man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do
inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration
this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less
making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club
Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. 
Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2404
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:49:00 -
[163] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Zene Ren wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Zene Ren wrote:there is only one and it is the most irritating people from what i know and it is inability to play PC constantly for players with enough SP and is and with 16 man of friends when they are online ATM Sorry I'm not tracking what you mean, could you rephrase it? players with the right amount of SP, team mates, and time at the moment they are online, want to queue for PC and play that mode this is not possible with timers So...so we're clear, you want people to be able to attack a district at any time of the day with minimal notice?
Personally, I think this right here is a necessity for raiding.
No warning, if you're not paying attention to some kind of activity monitor, we could technically conduct the entire raid without you ever realizing it.
Make raids not support more than 1 squad of raiders which will be blue to one another. If other raiders decide to raid at the same time my squad is raiding, then we're red to everyone who isn't us (yay Escalation!!).
I do like the idea of needing a beachhead to mount a formal attack, there should be minimal warning (but warning nonetheless) for this beachhead attack.
Raiding NEEDS to be a thing in PC.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
757
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:50:00 -
[164] - Quote
Zene Ren wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:Zene Ren wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then *big inhale* we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! *big inhale* WAAAAAA!!!!!" man seriously are you some kind of Pokeys parrot attorney? you know you don't have to be, pls keep it civil and i can respond w/o any issue the artificial scenario is: people want to play only PC because they are online they have enough SP and they have the team and with timers it is not possible simple as that
Not at all, Pokey and I actually butt heads pretty often (kinda often? Sometimes. We disagree sometimes. )
My point is you're making a case to increase the exacerbation of noobs in PC, as you think you are making a case to improve your own odds of success. End results:
1) you no more "active" in PC than you are now,
2) existing PC corps being little to no less dominant in PC than they are now,
3) and all those other PCnoobs that used to at least be able to buttress their PC holdings in a minimal manner so they could defend them actively will be vulnerable to the predatory mindsets of the existing PC murdercorps all day, every day.
I really think your naivete of PC and what being competitive in PC means is becoming clear here. HINT: Anything you do to make it easier for yourself to succeed will make it easier for the guys that are already able to succeed. So, ask yourself, in that scenario, who winds up ultimately more successful? And who winds up QQing (*cough* again *cough*) that the rules/conditions are too hard?
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2404
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:51:00 -
[165] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again.
This was one of the reasons I had no interest in PC from the start.
There was no option for people who didn't want to build an empire, I want to mount guerilla warfare against the powers-that-be and make them need to do more than just kiss their neighbors ass to hold their District and turn a profit from it.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4452
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Posted - 2015.01.21 18:52:00 -
[166] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
Personally, I think this right here is a necessity for raiding.
No warning, if you're not paying attention to some kind of activity monitor, we could technically conduct the entire raid without you ever realizing it.
Make raids not support more than 1 squad of raiders which will be blue to one another. If other raiders decide to raid at the same time my squad is raiding, then we're red to everyone who isn't us (yay Escalation!!).
I do like the idea of needing a beachhead to mount a formal attack, there should be minimal warning (but warning nonetheless) for this beachhead attack.
Raiding NEEDS to be a thing in PC.
Raiding? Absolutely.
Flipping a district? God no.
Theres too much riding on the line for Suprise Buttsex PC attacks if they can take your district in the process. Battles that happen on the fly that give a PC similar experience with less riding on the line? Totally cool with that.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
757
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:52:00 -
[167] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Zene Ren wrote:
man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do
inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration
this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less
making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club
Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again.
#QQKain
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4452
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:54:00 -
[168] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:
Not at all, Pokey and I actually butt heads pretty often (kinda often? Sometimes. We disagree sometimes. )
I'd say its a 5 part love to 4 part hate ratio, +/- 1 depending on the day. 
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
757
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:58:00 -
[169] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Zene Ren wrote:
man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do
inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration
this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less
making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club
Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again.
#QQKain
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2404
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 18:59:00 -
[170] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
Personally, I think this right here is a necessity for raiding.
No warning, if you're not paying attention to some kind of activity monitor, we could technically conduct the entire raid without you ever realizing it.
Make raids not support more than 1 squad of raiders which will be blue to one another. If other raiders decide to raid at the same time my squad is raiding, then we're red to everyone who isn't us (yay Escalation!!).
I do like the idea of needing a beachhead to mount a formal attack, there should be minimal warning (but warning nonetheless) for this beachhead attack.
Raiding NEEDS to be a thing in PC.
Raiding? Absolutely. Flipping a district? God no. Theres too much riding on the line for Suprise Buttsex PC attacks if they can take your district in the process. Battles that happen on the fly that give a PC similar experience with less riding on the line? Totally cool with that.
IDK, I agree and disagree at the same time.
Flipping a District should be possible through raiding though much, much harder to do than to just mount a formal attack.
If I am constantly raiding one of your outlying District and you never pay attention to it doesn't it make sense that I would eventually become more familiar with that District than you are?
If I raid your District a dozen times over the course of a month and you have shown no activity there wouldn't it make sense that your grip on the District would decay as my raids became more frequent?
By no means should it be a simple "we're going to raid this District tonight and it'll be ours tomorrow". Though if I wage a war of attrition on that District and you simply ignore it shouldn't it make sense that I would eventually be able to embezzle your profits while you still foot the bill on paper?
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4452
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:02:00 -
[171] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
IDK, I agree and disagree at the same time.
Flipping a District should be possible through raiding though much, much harder to do than to just mount a formal attack.
If I am constantly raiding one of your outlying District and you never pay attention to it doesn't it make sense that I would eventually become more familiar with that District than you are?
If I raid your District a dozen times over the course of a month and you have shown no activity there wouldn't it make sense that your grip on the District would decay as my raids became more frequent?
By no means should it be a simple "we're going to raid this District tonight and it'll be ours tomorrow". Though if I wage a war of attrition on that District and you simply ignore it shouldn't it make sense that I would eventually be able to embezzle your profits while you still foot the bill on paper?
Can raiding have a factor in weakening the defenses of a District? I don't see an issue with that. But I think the final battle that decides the ownership really needs to have more notice so both teams can make sure the best of the best are online for the big finale.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5779
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 19:15:00 -
[172] - Quote
Zene Ren wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Zene Ren wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
What you propose won't cause people to enter alliances. It would cause all the serious players to quit and the vacuum would be filled by people who can't spell grabbing people out of local chat.
man seriously you behave like a fortune teller how do you know that all would leave or that new players will not be able to, seriously talking about self entitlement nvm mind though... community newbs and vets would control that after some time the community playing the game would balance itself also as in every sandbox game the community always balance it self w/o any issue those artificial boundaries (timers in this case) are what makes imbalance You think the best players in the game that have spent nearly 2 years fighting in PC feel entitled? I guess I'd have to agree. I'm sure all of null sec in Eve would feel pretty entitled and would act negatively to say the least if they made mining ships, ratting ships, and mobile siphon units invincible. That's basically the same thing right? Giving the casual players the ability to completely **** all over the sandbox they've worked to build. I'd rather CCP not go from one extreme to another. there are no rules in null sec man... that is why it is called null sec no timers and locks only community owning particular system amt with man power and time availability so why should we have rules in our null sec our timers and locks?!?! it should be community power struggle not artificial boundaries...
Null Sec is/was driven by timers.
I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
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Zene Ren
Hired Ghost
106
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:19:00 -
[173] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Zene Ren wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:Zene Ren wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then *big inhale* we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! *big inhale* WAAAAAA!!!!!" man seriously are you some kind of Pokeys parrot attorney? you know you don't have to be, pls keep it civil and i can respond w/o any issue the artificial scenario is: people want to play only PC because they are online they have enough SP and they have the team and with timers it is not possible simple as that Not at all, Pokey and I actually butt heads pretty often (kinda often? Sometimes. We disagree sometimes. ) My point is you're making a case to increase the exacerbation of noobs in PC, as you think you are making a case to improve your own odds of success. End results: 1) you no more "active" in PC than you are now, 2) existing PC corps being little to no less dominant in PC than they are now, 3) and all those other PCnoobs that used to at least be able to buttress their PC holdings in a minimal manner so they could defend them actively will be vulnerable to the predatory mindsets of the existing PC murdercorps all day, every day. I really think your naivete of PC and what being competitive in PC means is becoming clear here. HINT: Anything you do to make it easier for yourself to succeed will make it easier for the guys that are already able to succeed. So, ask yourself, in that scenario, who winds up ultimately more successful? And who winds up QQing (*cough* again *cough*) that the rules/conditions are too hard?
man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that:
people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM
with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible
if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids"
as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules
what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment?
new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only
nothing more nothing less
Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4453
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:22:00 -
[174] - Quote
Zene, could you please answer my question at the top of the page?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5779
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:24:00 -
[175] - Quote
Flyingconejo wrote:Timers are not the problem. Low PC population is. Juggle with the timers all you want, in the end, it wont change anything, and PC will still be empty save for the 100-150 players that have always been there. There are not enough players to make the current system work. There are not enough players to make any of the proposed changes work.
And that is because you have focused so much in making your game hard, that forgot to make it fun.
For most players trying to get into PC, they get a very low Fun/Effort ratio.
PC battles are the best thing this game has to offer, but for most new corps, it takes too much time to get good enough so they can start having fun with them, and they give up, never to come back.
Give them an intermediate step where they can train and have fun. FW is not good enough because you can't choose your opponent, so bring back the corp battle system from the open beta, but with 16 vs 16, with both sides knowing who they are going to fight beforehand, and very low stakes beyond the equipment used. That would be fun and help people prepare for PC.
And being in PC should offer something to district owners that would compel them to bother with it instead of playing in the minor, corp battle league.
That's my 2 cents. Anyway, for me PC is broken at its core from the start, so any band aid you try will have very little effect. Unless you scrap it and start over from zero, you might as well leave it as is.
I'd argue that the current timer mechanics are the number one reason why PC is played by so few. There is no element of surprise. In war a lesser enemy can overcome a stronger opponent if they time their attack right in an advantageous location. We can't really set ambushes in advantageous geological locations, but an element of surprise could and should be implemented.
The details are the problem. People have been hung up on far reaching complexities and it appears we will get stuck with timer mechanics that only favor a Zerg.
I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5779
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:28:00 -
[176] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
IDK, I agree and disagree at the same time.
Flipping a District should be possible through raiding though much, much harder to do than to just mount a formal attack.
If I am constantly raiding one of your outlying District and you never pay attention to it doesn't it make sense that I would eventually become more familiar with that District than you are?
If I raid your District a dozen times over the course of a month and you have shown no activity there wouldn't it make sense that your grip on the District would decay as my raids became more frequent?
By no means should it be a simple "we're going to raid this District tonight and it'll be ours tomorrow". Though if I wage a war of attrition on that District and you simply ignore it shouldn't it make sense that I would eventually be able to embezzle your profits while you still foot the bill on paper?
Can raiding have a factor in weakening the defenses of a District? I don't see an issue with that. But I think the final battle that decides the ownership really needs to have more notice so both teams can make sure the best of the best are online for the big finale.
I think this is the area where future tweaking could swing the pendulum of quantity vs quality.
If AE is able to get a couple of squads worth of guys to log in and swing an entire war then obviously they might need to look at battles spinning up quickly while making the window of attack smaller.
I'm selling Templar Codes. 3 of 4 remaining. 200 mil ISK. Message me in game.
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Zene Ren
Hired Ghost
106
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:31:00 -
[177] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Zene, could you please answer my question at the top of the page?
"So...so we're clear, you want people to be able to attack a district at any time of the day with minimal notice? "
sure i can
raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid
you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so.
raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match
while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district
as i said with out PC timers pub contracts will be free from q syncs and proto slayers terrorizing newbies, improoving those newbies experience and game play w/o doing anything more
advanced SP players will mostly play FW or trying the raiding mechanic while the big boys will have constantly open PC game mode as we had corp battles with raids and district flipping
those are only first ideas that come to mind but with minimal effort and resources we could fix most bad things that happen within the game (proto stomping newbies, q syncs for pub contracts etc. etc. etc.) and improve new players numbers also the list goes on and on
the most important thing is and will be PC will be approachable and open to all that want to participate and not blocked by game mode breaking rule set
Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4453
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:35:00 -
[178] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I think this is the area where future tweaking could swing the pendulum of quantity vs quality.
If AE is able to get a couple of squads worth of guys to log in and swing an entire war then obviously they might need to look at battles spinning up quickly while making the window of attack smaller.
Well heres my deal. I totally think that Zerging should have a place in PC. If you're able to spin up battles on the fly and send a swarm of players to collectively devour the enemy's profits by overwhelming them with the sheer number of battles, I think something along that line is fine. However you also don't want zerging to be the ONLY part of PC....quality has to trump quantity in other situations too.
That's why I've been moving more towards the "Sure, you can raid whenever you want and if corporations want to defend against it, they need a lot of people to do so. You can make money doing this and it can work to weaken the enemy's empire" at the same time skill and ability also has to matter, so if you want to completely rip a district away from someone, you need to actually win the important battles to obtain land.
It leaves a place for those who want to have PC on the fly, but also means that skilled players can still hold and defend land against the swarm.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4453
|
Posted - 2015.01.21 19:38:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ok so lets say players are on in 6 hour shifts, 16 players each, 4 shifts a day... are you saying that an alliance needs to have 64 players for every district the alliance owns to properly defend it?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
729
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:42:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:
Yes. Because we sure don't want to pay any attention to the people who not only have extensive experience in planetary conquest in the past, but are still actively involved and are actually interested in its future. Because their opinions are obviously worthless.
No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget: "Region locking is stupid" There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group. I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.
- Pats Incubus on the side
- reads post
- Pats incubus on the side again
Those words really stung, and PC guys, you had better get your act together and try to propose something constructive, trust me i fly, and have seen what comes when you make Rattati angry. YOU DONT WANT TO SEE RATTATI ANGRY!
In all seriousness though, the bare minimum a timer reset and removing control from the corps is a good thing. Instead of offering a false brick wall (what are you gonna do? go on strike? lol burn jita? ) i would go with the option that seems the most egalitarian of the lot.
And by far Pokey's is the best one.
@Pokey, With the "fuel" needed to keep the shield up and reduce the attack window, how about having it a sort of resource per day that a daily surplus can be traded out to other districts held by the same corp to keep the other districts shields up?
Defend district A, Consecutive wins/ lack of attacks keep the window 1 hr and shield fully charged. Take district B, add surplus to reduce window quicker. Consecutive wins on districts A and B, and if the corp manages to take district C then the surplus from the A & B shorten C's attack window.
Since all 3 of the Districs are vulnerable to attack it still requires the manpower and recruits needed to beat off raids 3 serperate hours of the day. Rewards holding a district as well as enabling expansion. Yet, over extend your forces with out the player count to back a corp up, you'll end up losing a district.
Raids give 15 min notice, but major invasion fleets give 24hr notice. Basically the difference between a raiding merc warbarge and a large attacking Corp warbarge.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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