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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 750	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:08:00 - [1] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: PC is a sandbox - stop trying to violate it. You've done enough damage with the removal of passive ISK without a decent replacement. The notion "it's a sandbox" is irrelevant if it doesn't also offer compelling gameplay. This is not a valuable argument. "Compelling Gameplay" in the context of PC might be better defined as " a gamemode that isn't identical to a pub mode". FACT: If a corp can't field a team that can compete at the level successful PC corps do then what time the battle happens is irrelevant, except in cases of unworthy combatants looking for targets they don't have to actually fight. Resetting timers, redistributing availability windows or other fradulent "fixes" won't matter when the actual PC combat is still 16v16 and one side isn't up to par with their competition. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 750	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:22:00 - [2] - Quote And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 751	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:05:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Sounds ******* boring. Fought a generic battle. Called it raiding. Achieved nothing that any other attack at any other time would have achieved. Called it raiding. A raid is a rapid "SUPRISE" attack. In Dust you politely register your name on a form in triplicate, ensure the other corporations Public Relations, Financial Officers, and CEO are all aware of your efforts, and invite them to tea afterwards. Sure it sounds boring. Thing is, it exists. You and 5 of your friends want to "raid"? Send those clones. My point in it is that its possible, as proven by all the corps and players currently PC active who are doing exactly as I describe. PC battles are identical to pub skirm in structure. That being the case doesn't warrant a major overhaul of timers to correct, it warrants an overhaul of the PC combat mechanics/mode style itself. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 751	Posted - 2015.01.20 22:40:00 - [4] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: True Adamance wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And, as anyone who is actually active in PC currently knows, RAIDS do very much exist and have ever since PC isk payouts were changed a couple months back. Put simply, RAIDING is committed by attacking corps fielding a team, winning the initial attacks (it takes 3 successful, successive attacks to "flip" district ownership) and then NOT showing for the third, final flip attack. 2 battles with individual payouts of 3-7 Million isk each = 6-14Million isk earned, per player, per full matchset district attack. Easily 90% of the initiative inspiring this proposal is less a case of conditions being "unfair" or "inaccessible " and more just players are unwilling to rise to the challenge, and demanding it be lowered down to them. Don't like Nyan, think they hold too much or can't protect what they have? Gather a team and attack them. Have doubts as to whether or not a corp that has a bunch of districts at, say, 0600 is actually active at that time (since you know they all log off at 0559)? Field a team and attack them. Sounds ***** boring. Fought a generic battle. Called it raiding. Achieved nothing that any other attack at any other time would have achieved. Called it raiding. A raid is a rapid "SUPRISE" attack. In Dust you politely register your name on a form in triplicate, ensure the other corporations Public Relations, Financial Officers, and CEO are all aware of your efforts, and invite them to tea afterwards. Sure it sounds boring. Thing is, it exists. You and 5 of your friends want to "raid"? Send those clones.** My point in it is that its possible, as proven by all the corps and players currently PC active who are doing exactly as I describe. PC battles are identical to pub skirm in structure. That being the case doesn't warrant a major overhaul of timers to correct, it warrants an overhaul of the PC combat mechanics/mode style itself. So raiding exists for people that already play PC or anyone that wants to pay for a clone pack just so they can have a chance at PC payouts? Sounds oh so inviting and appealing, I'ma get right to it! Awesome! "Come and knock on our door...We'll be waiting for you....." Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:09:00 - [5] - Quote LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:23:00 - [6] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then big inhale we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! big inhale WAAAAAA!!!!!" Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:34:00 - [7] - Quote Put simply, PC right now has the LOWEST bar for entry it ever has ( we give districts away for FREE) , the best conditions for a sustained presence from ANY group (the widely PC community agreed upon, accepted, and enforced "Last District Rule") as well as a wealth of diversity in corp strengths, open to attack timer spreads and extra available manpower if needed. All this talk about, " Oh yeah, well just get some corp members from a different timezone" can be applied just as justifiably to any noobcorp trying to get in and not seeing a timer they can field a challenge to. All this talk about, "Oh yeah, well just join an alliance that will help you" can also be applied just as justifiably to any noobcorp trying to get in and not seeing a corp whose memberbase they can field a challenge to. Quite frankly, from what I've seen of PC the last two years, both from outside it as well as inside it, if you can't plant a flag in it right now then you aren't competent enough as a player to realistically ever expect to. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 756	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:37:00 - [8] - Quote RemingtonBeaver wrote: Get rid of the timers. You want PC to be fun? Get rid of the timers. Give a 30 minute warning to the corp being attacked. Watch PC turn into an actual conquest mode. LOOOOOLOLOLOL YES! The tears!! The delicious tears that will fall!!! PC will be the absolute EPITOME of a protostomped pub!!! And then, when tired, the stompers will retire back to casually protostomping ACTUAL pubs!!! LOL, its the Snake That Eats its Tail!!!! LOOOOOoL!1!1!111!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:50:00 - [9] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed? OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7. US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March". http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea raids are for people who want to attack and play PC without the obligation to defend or conquer, they just want to play PC and earn ISK on the win scenario while dwindling production for defenders from attacked district Now who's making up artificial scenarios? Raids as you've described them will attract the current PC slayersquad masses who will roflstomp the everliving **** out of EVERYONE. And then the QQnoobery about how PC is too elitist will continue, albeit from the perspective of, " Waaa, we tried to raid in PC and got punked and then big inhale we got our district stomped out from under us * big inhale* and now our asses are just being passed around for clonefarming like a hackeysack at a Dave Matthews show!!! big inhale WAAAAAA!!!!!" man seriously are you some kind of Pokeys parrot attorney? you know you don't have to be, pls keep it civil and i can respond w/o any issue the artificial scenario is: people want to play only PC because they are online they have enough SP and they have the team and with timers it is not possible simple as that Not at all, Pokey and I actually butt heads pretty often (kinda often? Sometimes. We disagree sometimes. ) My point is you're making a case to increase the exacerbation of noobs in PC, as you think you are making a case to improve your own odds of success. End results: 1) you no more "active" in PC than you are now, 2) existing PC corps being little to no less dominant in PC than they are now, 3) and all those other PCnoobs that used to at least be able to buttress their PC holdings in a minimal manner so they could defend them actively will be vulnerable to the predatory mindsets of the existing PC murdercorps all day, every day. I really think your naivete of PC and what being competitive in PC means is becoming clear here. HINT: Anything you do to make it easier for yourself to succeed will make it easier for the guys that are already able to succeed. So, ask yourself, in that scenario, who winds up ultimately more successful? And who winds up QQing (cough again cough) that the rules/conditions are too hard? Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:52:00 - [10] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again. #QQKain Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 18:58:00 - [11] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously i've read most of your comments about the matter, you do not need to double post this kind of stuff rather advocate for leaving the timers behind us that is what you can do inventing a more complex "walls" as this this Pokey's forum user will only make things worse with every iteration this needs to be an easy and straight forward mechanic, no timers at all, if you can't be online your alliance needs to have the tools to be aware that a district is in danger of attack and respond to that, nothing more nothing less making more complex solutions will always destroy the dynamic , make this mode stale, leave most SP wise people out of it thus staying in status quo of the elite club Your vision is that all organizations need to be global, have massive numbers, and be available 24/7. How is that balance towards the wide variety of groups that attempt to play this game and want to participate in planetary conquest? How does having land being taken while the owner sleeps give the system a sense of permanence? No, they just shouldn't hold more land than they can defend and/or manage. Reduce your holdings, it is not your god-given right to have what you used to have. Couldn't agree more. Personally I never wanted to be a landowner. Just a merc with a barge raiding the countryside like a Viking War Party. The system thus far has only really been open to those that want to be empire builders. Been there, controlled 99%, don't need or want to do it again. #QQKain Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 757	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:01:00 - [12] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that: people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids" as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment? new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only nothing more nothing less PC IS accessible. Especially to smaller groups. EVERYTHING you've advocated for is currently available, EXCEPT the ability to stage district attacks and have them opened on a whim. Be careful what you ask for though, if the existing PC powerhouses have the ability to stage attacks on-the-fly it will be those same smaller groups that will bear the majority of the burden. Theirs will be the districts most profitable to hit. Put it this way- We're all BankRobbers. What banks are most likely to be robbed most often, the occasional large one, with layers of security, located in the center of a metropolitan area OR the tiny podunk countrybanks dotting the countryside? Which banks will more appealing for a robbery by the strongest crews? You want to "open" PC. And I maintain it already is. Is it as easy as forming a squad and searching a PC battle in your battlefinder? No. But why should it be? Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:13:00 - [13] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Zene Ren wrote: raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district My view on raids differs from yours, here's how Raids are a "Zero Warning" activity. What this means is that there is absolutely no warning that the raid is about to happen or is progress unless you have someone actively monitoring your District(s) on the Star Map (or some other new UI related to revamped PC). Raiders can bring a single squad, if other Raiders are encountered on the same District they are treated as though they are red. Defenders can bring up to 16 mercs to defend their District. Defenders are obviously red to all Raiders. Raids would be a simple single Skirmish match, Raiders controlling Letters generates Asset Wealth for the Raiders that they receive in the EoM screen. Defenders need to hold onto the Letters to prevent themselves from hemorrhaging said Asset. If the Defenders don't defend then it will be a quick match ripe with easy loot. Perhaps eventually, there could be other benefits to Raiding that would be directly related to the SI that the Defenders had on the District. this is really nice but it will require a ton of coding when my proposal for start will just set up PC open for all at minimal cost and after that we could try some more elaborate techniques ;) No, your proposal stages a pubmatch on a PC district. It minimizes your risk potential while maximizing your reward potential. I, for one, look forward to this type of system being integrated so I and my mangy vampire dog horde friends can utilize it for our own profitability AND read through the tearthreads after about a week. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:51:00 - [14] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. Any "Ownership" system will be paintable as a "Tournament Ladder". Any " Evolution" that could be even remotely considered an "evolution" needs a change NOT in PC timers but in the PC GAMEMODE. Are you tired of seeing the same 16 ringers? Maybe, just maybe, coordinate an attack (like a raid must have a defense coordinated, just spur of the moment) so that any of those terrible ringers are committed there and not available elsewhere. "Status Quo" currently has PC fully active for those not so busy crying about how PC sucks they actually play PC. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 20:56:00 - [15] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Zene Ren wrote: raids should have minimal notice but still it should be whole alliance of the attacked that gets the message 10 to 30 minutes before raid you should be able to flip districts always also although it should require more costs, as to set up you infrastructure, with a longer notice about 1 hour to 3 or even set up your attack for 24 h prior still with the alliance noticed when getting ready to do so. raid would be 1 to 2 matches while flip should require 3 to 4 matches still debatable, still available all the time, we could later add still skirmish 1.0 for flipping districts for first and second match while raids are a two stage pub matches with PC reality something for proto stompers their mode of choice w/o obligations to defend because no district will flip thus constant PC game mode will be open for vets and the income will be high like after PC match now, just w/o district My view on raids differs from yours, here's how Raids are a "Zero Warning" activity. What this means is that there is absolutely no warning that the raid is about to happen or is progress unless you have someone actively monitoring your District(s) on the Star Map (or some other new UI related to revamped PC). Raiders can bring a single squad, if other Raiders are encountered on the same District they are treated as though they are red. Defenders can bring up to 16 mercs to defend their District. Defenders are obviously red to all Raiders. Raids would be a simple single Skirmish match, Raiders controlling Letters generates Asset Wealth for the Raiders that they receive in the EoM screen. Defenders need to hold onto the Letters to prevent themselves from hemorrhaging said Asset. If the Defenders don't defend then it will be a quick match ripe with easy loot. Perhaps eventually, there could be other benefits to Raiding that would be directly related to the SI that the Defenders had on the District. this is really nice but it will require a ton of coding when my proposal for start will just set up PC open for all at minimal cost and after that we could try some more elaborate techniques ;) No, your proposal stages a pubmatch on a PC district. It minimizes your risk potential while maximizing your reward potential. I, for one, look forward to this type of system being integrated so I and my mangy vampire dog horde friends can utilize it for our own profitability AND read through the tearthreads after about a week. Funny thing is, the tears will be coming from those who choose to hold Districts, not those raiding them. Yeah, you think. Until, of course, noone holds districts since they're susceptible to constant petty crime and then since no one holds them they don't generate anything of value and become subsequently worthless for raiding. #QQAdvocatingAgainstYourOwnInterests Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 21:26:00 - [16] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: hmmm pub match with PC rule set and penalty for defenders if they lose nothing wrong with that competition will be hard, reward will be big enough to run proto in it and it will be always open game mode for vets what do you want more? LOL I'm curious what you're talking about with, "PC rule set"? And a penalty for defenders if they lose? But no penalty for attackers when they lose? Exemplify my statement about what I said about this being all about minimizing risk while maximizing reward more. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:15:00 - [17] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: man seriously hide that ego of yours as i do not mean me in my concept i mean that: people above some level of SP and ISK and with friends online ATM are simply bored to pub stomp naps in pub contracts and want to have the big boys game approachable at all times because this is the mode they want to play only ATM with timers or any similar mechanic it is impossible if noobs want to try ti too why stop then let them try they may have their ass handled to them or they may suprise defenders we do not know but the wheels of PC game mode will be always turning not leaving any interested behind artificial boundaries of timers and locks that are and in any form will be abused by "cool kids" as in eve politics win, it should be in dust bigger will dictate but the smaller will not be prevented to try to give it a whirl and test the bigger boys it is the sandbox nature, community sets the rules and bounds not a timer or locked stade like in null sec in eve only people with force set the rules what is wrong with that beside that everyone that think of himself of being able, will have open entry into PC at any given moment? new eden is harsh place if they hit those "elite skilled" self proclaimed protos it will be a lesson for them but it will be still an open mode if someone wants to play it only nothing more nothing less PC IS accessible. Especially to smaller groups. EVERYTHING you've advocated for is currently available, EXCEPT the ability to stage district attacks and have them opened on a whim. Be careful what you ask for though, if the existing PC powerhouses have the ability to stage attacks on-the-fly it will be those same smaller groups that will bear the majority of the burden. Theirs will be the districts most profitable to hit. Put it this way- We're all BankRobbers. What banks are most likely to be robbed most often, the occasional large one, with layers of security, located in the center of a metropolitan area OR the tiny podunk countrybanks dotting the countryside? Which banks will more appealing for a robbery by the strongest crews? You want to "open" PC. And I maintain it already is. Is it as easy as forming a squad and searching a PC battle in your battlefinder? No. But why should it be? Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. PC isn't accessible. The mechanics are on the extreme spectrum as they stand currently. Not only are the mechanics such that only the best of the best can succeed, but there is currently no way to prepare for it other than by participating in PC itself. PC is the most accessible it's ever been currently because there are no rewards for ownership. If the stakes were what they were before passive ISK was removed most of the people holding districts currently would not be on the map. Most of the corps currently in PC are nowhere near ready for battles against veteran PC corps. I think the pendulum has to swing in the favor of quantity over quality for some time while more people are introduced and versed in team play. The only thing that I see that allows for this is the ability for lesser corps to surprise and zerg more powerful corps. If that's through raids or a more favorable timer mechanic then great. If new to PC corps are not allowed some level of success then it's going to fall on it's face. We can either have hardcore mode with dozens of players or we can swing it back to intermediate mode and capture a large portion of our community. As players adapt to a more serious style of gameplay the pendulum could be swung more in the other direction. While I can agree there needs to be conditions to create an uptick of quantity to dilute the quality in exchange is a major error. From my perspective, the only reason people aren't better versed in teamplay isn't anything to do with timers or "elites" and everything to do with an unwillingness to use what we already have readily available to achieve the goals created. Pubs, as they are, are the free-for-all people want PC to be. Instant battle, no thinking, launch and go. Pubs, as they should be, would be the place that an individual goes to train their aim (bush) their area control (Dom) and finally organized map control ( skirm). None of this neccessitates any changes to Pubs whatsoever except for the mentality of the people going in. Instead of, oh yeah I need isk so Ima gonna protostomp me some bush, hurrdurr! it'd be Well, we want to attack a known competitive force in PC so we better train like crazy in skirms and when we're ready to dress rehearse we launch in FW and after we're confident enough in our ability to have a plan and execute it we'll launch in PC. Winner take all. Yes, districts are free. This is NOT synonymous with value-less. Districts still generate clones, which is the "currency" of attacks. A corp can buy a clonepack and send attacks, or have a couple districts generating the clones that they attack with. Does a district generate free isk? Nope, and they haven't for a while. But they save isk when attacking, and as the old adage goes, isk saved is isk earned. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 22:50:00 - [18] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zene Ren wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: hmmm pub match with PC rule set and penalty for defenders if they lose nothing wrong with that competition will be hard, reward will be big enough to run proto in it and it will be always open game mode for vets what do you want more? LOL I'm curious what you're talking about with, "PC rule set"? And a penalty for defenders if they lose? But no penalty for attackers when they lose? Exemplify my statement about what I said about this being all about minimizing risk while maximizing reward more. lol man seriously no comment... penalty for attackers that fail: 0 pay, nada, non only costs for lost suits penalty for defenders when they fail smaller dwindled or halted isk or any other district generated resource PC rule set, you do not understand even that? FF on and only vets on the other side what do you want more? So attackers get paid for losses when their attacks fail? Is another example of "Failure=IskReward" available somewhere in New Eden? I'm curious and would like to compare the two. No, "PC rule set" without an explanation I do not understand, that's why I asked. Funny thing about what you describe: FF on <- identical to Faction Warfare, so no, not unique as a "PC rule" Only vets <- Not created by your idea. Since attacks will happen at will, defenders will be composed of members available, not all of whom will neccessarily be "vets". " Only Vets" is a condition created by corps having the ability to take the time to ensure they have PC capable teammembers available. You realize you're just asking for PC to be a pub match, but without the competition, yet? Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:00:00 - [19] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: A lot (not all, by any means, but the majority I have heard from) of the people who do actually do play PC don't think region locking districts is a good solution. Zaria, here's my problem with this: Nobody can tell me why it's not a good solution, other than it's different from what we have now, and people are resistant to change. Arguments like "taking away choice" or "violating the sandbox" are generally invalid, because games are built on limits, and if a function is not assisting gameplay, it needs to die. I've heard ONE good argument against locking down timer changes, and that's the potential for it to interfere with the "location matters" goal, but that's likely not to be an immediate issue anyways. And if we turn changing timers off, we can still turn it back on later, when the mode is developed further. So even if this did become a problem, I'd be inclined to lock it down for now, and iterate on it, and reopen the capability later. Loss aversion is a huge psychological thing. People are very resistant to losing things or options, even if the alternative is actually better. It's a human nature thing. Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:14:00 - [20] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Probably because region locking automatically blues up an area based not on in-game affilitations (corps and alliances) but on out-of-game affiliations ( global player region). This, in turn, then could create WORSE bluelocks once a group has enough players spread across global regions, since the total available is restricted by region and easier to control. If I have 16 NA players who can fight on the ASIA primetime we should be able to keep whatever we are able to take, districts included. I think it was Kane who invented this term "region locking". I am not suggesting any sort of "region lock". I am suggesting the timers do not change from where they're originally seeded at, which should be scattered around the map to create a fairly varied play map. If you have 16 players who can fight on the Asian prime time you should be able to keep whatever you take, assuming you can also defend it in the Asian prime time. So, timers. Just not adjustable. Whose times are spread out to certain times for certain regions. Thats region locking, regardless of who coined the phrase. Taking it in Asian prime to then leave it in Asian prime isn't taking it. Its borrowing it. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.21 23:19:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Zene Ren wrote: You don't seem to understand. We don't have the playerbase in the entire game to support what you're asking for. Fixing PC is not going to make people magically flock to play Dust, and certainly not in the required numbers to support your idea. Additionally you still have not told me how your idea gets past the imbalance in regional playerbase as well as excessive talent pooling we see in other areas such as Japan. Because why bother even trying to get a district if you know some guy in a different time zone will steal it out from under you? You're basically going balls deep with "Oh just send the entire system into total chaos and hopefully the playerbase will magically triple to make it all work!" Here's the deal. PC is unique because people always bring the best of the best to the fight. You want EVERYONE to be involved, everyone in the game. All the time. Which means what you get is a mix of everyone, newbies, vets, and everyone in between. You know what other game mode is like that? Public Contracts. If you make PC so chaotic, so manpower intensive that alliances are scraping together anyone they can get just to fill the damn time slots....what do you end up with? A public match. And since ownership wont matter because it'll just get flipped the second your patrols have an opening, how is that any different from a pub match? FKN-A Dude, That!!^^^^^^^^Right there^^^^^^ Pub PC without the competition that makes PC what it is. Want team deploy for your pubstar buds? Start a thread for it and call it what it is- Team Deployed Pub Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:13:00 - [22] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Craziest thing, this "Raiding " proposal ( which I'm not against) doesn't even scratch the surface of what PC is currently, organized matches between organized combatants. All you're proposing is the ability to have a Skirmish match, but be paid for it by the district holder. You want a departure from pubs but all you've proposed just equals another pub. The gamemode doesn't change. Only the number of people available to fight. Lame. This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? Yeah, I am not seeing where he is coming from because from what I've read el Operator seems to be the Lazer Fo Cused of PC. Just el OPERATOR, thanks. Like the sig reads, main and original. Someday I'll remember to add "Only". Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 758	Posted - 2015.01.22 00:48:00 - [23] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: This is exactly the problem, you don't want PC to change from the status quo. You don't want it to evolve into something more than a glorified, overly complex tournament ladder. Where is the Open World Sandbox gameplay if everything 100% revolves around sitting in a lobby waiting to fight the same 16 guys that you fight every time you attack a District because everyone just hires them as ringers? We've seen where the status quo gets us, now is the time for change. I don't think you are seeing where he is coming from. PC currently takes a lot of organization and planning. This is no different in huge nullsec groups. The problem we have here is that we are limited to 16 v 16. You can't have an open sandbox with 16 v 16. Why does it have to be hardmode or easy mode? Why can't it be somewhere in the middle? Yeah, I am not seeing where he is coming from because from what I've read el Operator seems to be the Lazer Fo Cused of PC. Just el OPERATOR, thanks. Like the sig reads, main and original. Someday I'll remember to add "Only". Again, Reading Comprehension. Another way to say what I did is that you are to PC what Lazer Fo Cused is to Vehicle balance. Never did I say that you had an alt named Lazer Fo Cused (because frankly I already know that is Takahiro Kashuken)[/quote] And that is relevant how to the discussion at hand?? Except for the analogy of PC now being like Vehicles then, in which case you may have a winner since while (look it up) the forums were full of trash players QQing about vehicle imbalance I was playing matches and utterly eviscerating ezmode vehicle pilots with my PLC/AV nade combo. While posting that, while imbalanced for sure, vehicles were FAR from invincible OR unkillable. So if I'm LazorFocused, I guess you'd have to beee.... random forum playertrash that doesn't even participate in the gamemode you are trying to dictate settings for. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 767	Posted - 2015.01.22 20:29:00 - [24] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And that is relevant how to the discussion at hand?? Except for the analogy of PC now being like Vehicles then, in which case you may have a winner since while (look it up) the forums were full of trash players QQing about vehicle imbalance I was playing matches and utterly eviscerating ezmode vehicle pilots with my PLC/AV nade combo. While posting that, while imbalanced for sure, vehicles were FAR from invincible OR unkillable. So if I'm LazorFocused, I guess you'd have to beee.... random forum playertrash that doesn't even participate in the gamemode you are trying to dictate settings for. Wow, you really are intellectually challenged aren't you? The analogy had nothing to do with PC v Vehicles and everything to do with you being for PC what Lazer Fo Cused is for Vehicles. Which is to say, inflammatory, needlessly obtuse and excessively narcissistic. I am sorry that you could understand that from the first time I posted it and then felt the need to insult me because I'm not a monosyllabic mouthbreather like you are. Sure, kid. You're the intellectual litmus for all of DUST514, anyone that doesn't think so is an intellectually challenged mouth breather and PC is bad or wrong somehow. I'm not sorry that I, in my mouthbreathing, intellectual inferiority, have been able to learn DUST, work at it and earn a place in PC. Didn't happen overnight, didn't happen by crying about it not being fair, didn't happen by talking down the other people who worked to get it done. Fact is, for all your intellectual superiority and my inflammatory inferiority, YOU were the individual to start with the negative associations, while I AM one of the few individuals in this conversation who've been able to find solutions to problems instead of just crying about the existence of problems. idgaf who LazorFocused is, how he expressed himself somewhere else at some other time, igaf that some scrub bullshitter like you, who has already said he never wanted **** to do with PC NOW wants to turn around and dictate ANY evolutionary element to it. All so that when it (again) isn't exactly how you want it to be you can be a dismissive whiner and cry on the forums about it while I go relearn the skills to be successful and move forward Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 768	Posted - 2015.01.22 21:41:00 - [25] - Quote Since no thread was opened by Rattati or CPM looking for PC improvement feedback that I can recall, aside from the current "This is what we're doing, discuss" stickies, I'll leave some input here. PC improvements: 1)open the starmap up. I suggested this earlier, later saw a response but didn't find it when looking to respond to it just now. Open The StarMap Up. Molden Heath is already proven as a very small space for the sort or dynamic interactions ANY ground-based element of EVE online should have. There are hundreds of systems, a couple thousand planets and the existing lore easily accomodates the idea of fledgling corps existing in districts on planetary surfaces immune to disruption (HiSec) where they are protected and can learn and grow while more advanced and experienced groups exist elsewhere (Low or NullSec), risking more by being there but earning more also. 2) Districts having value beyond simple isk or clones. Passive isk, while the easiest, is a proven bad idea, ruining not just internal corp dynamics ( people demanding paychecks since the corp has districts) but a large part of the NPE in public modes (protostompers). Clones being generated I don't think has been bad, the districtnmakes clones that are sent to attack other districts and fighting the battle gets everyone involved paid, relative to their ability to be individually profitable in general. Again, not bad IMO, but still lacking a certain relevence insofar as the greater ideas of wealth or wealth generation are concerned. Personally I don't care really "what" the particular widget is that makes a district valuable, be it fuel, nanites, clones, raw somethinganium that Capsuleers use, PSN codes, w/e. Just ensure districts are worth fighting over. 3) Timers have proven worthwhile but tricky. True, full scale PC battles should NOT occur at the drop of a hat. Anybody claiming a timer-less "raiding" system will produce this is either completely inexperienced in current PC, lying to themselves and others or both. Current PC mechanics allow for the gathering of PC teams, YES. Sometimes, this means for an attacker that they face the same people sometimes, YES. And they people they face are skilled, competent TEAM members, YES. SO, the battles are tough. They are competitive. They are NOT going to be the rabblegroup from a pub or FW. AND they shouldn't be. The time delay between attack sent and barge opening ensures those best competition groups can be formed. The trick, as I see, is for Timers to enable attacks to occur within windows created by DEFENDERS not attackers. Maybe instead of 1 timer, with 1 open hour window and + or - this or that its 1 timer with 4 thirty minute windows, allowing the owner to open a district for 2 hours concurrent OR some mix in half-hour blocks around the clock. Either way, the district is open for more time and for smaller groups whose memberbase is spread globally they can dial more finely their times to ensure they have their coverages. 3) The actual PC gamemode itself could use a change away from just being a skirmish match. Someone, somewhere, some other time proposed an idea that would make a PC battle basically all 3 current gamemodes combined, an Ambush to beachhead, a Dom to reinforce and a Skirm to invade. I like this idea a lot, especially if the maps themselves canj be run across end to end, the bush area borders the dom area and you RUN your ass from one to the other. 4) I'm down for district hit-n-run raids being available 24/7 with a couple caveats: - Raiding is performed by 1 squad, 6 people or the 8 that was proposed as an increase for PC/FW elsewhere. The group that deploys on the raid is the only group allowed, no switching or being joined by another party. -Raid Defending is performed by up to 16. Whoever is available can defend, up to PC team limit max. -Raiders, win or lose, keep whatever salvage they generate based off of what they destroy. -Defenders, win or lose, get paid isk automatically from their corps' wallet commiserate to standard pub dom scale. -Raiders, in killing clones, are potentially able to reduce the physical clone count on a district while... -Defenders, in killing Raiders, are able to destroy individual Raiders' WarBarges . Individual Raider falls below a certain clonecount, his barge is what gets destroyed. No barge, no raiding or any other activity in MH until the barge is replaced. (buy a new one from Concord or whoever makes the things in the first place) -The mode itself is basically a Dom, with the attack triggering a barge entrance for the Raiders and an open contract alert/deployment for the Defenders where the Defenders spawn into an already all blue point and map near the console and the Raiders spawn at the traditional Dom spawnpoints. 6) The WarBarge/Flotilla element is a cool idea, I've been watching that thread some though not saying a lot since it's still "in the rough". Incorporating it and the easy to grasp physical location element that, properly created and deployed, the idea brings will work wonders at surpassing some of existing issues people seem to have with PC while bypassing potential problems/imbalances other idea Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 768	Posted - 2015.01.22 21:45:00 - [26] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Sure, kid. You're the intellectual litmus for all of DUST514, anyone that doesn't think so is an intellectually challenged mouth breather and PC is bad or wrong somehow. I'm not sorry that I, in my mouthbreathing, intellectual inferiority, have been able to learn DUST, work at it and earn a place in PC. Didn't happen overnight, didn't happen by crying about it not being fair, didn't happen by talking down the other people who worked to get it done. Fact is, for all your intellectual superiority and my inflammatory inferiority, YOU were the individual to start with the negative associations, while I AM one of the few individuals in this conversation who've been able to find solutions to problems instead of just crying about the existence of problems. idgaf who LazorFocused is, how he expressed himself somewhere else at some other time, igaf that some scrub bullshitter like you, who has already said he never wanted **** to do with PC NOW wants to turn around and dictate ANY evolutionary element to it. All so that when it (again) isn't exactly how you want it to be you can be a dismissive whiner and cry on the forums about it while I go relearn the skills to be successful and move forward Aww, is the open beta newb mad now? Want to know why I never had a desire to participate in PC? Because I knew from the DevBlog before it was released that it was going to be a rushed POS popularity contest. Want to know why I am adding my two cents now? Because I hope that PC2.0 is something that surpasses the garbage that PC1.0 is/was and IMHO some of the ideas I've had will help that to occur. Even if it isn't the ideal scenario I picture it to be in mind, I will participate in PC2.0. LOl, sure, scrub. Obligatory, " If We Lower the Bar Enough You'll GOML" comment. And I've no doubt you'll be in PC 2.0, you'll need the credibility when you return to the forums with your QQ and renewed promise to never participate. Not that it matters to me, you fail now, you'll fail then. GG Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 769	Posted - 2015.01.22 23:26:00 - [27] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Self-Important Tripe Timers should exist as fuel with little to no timer for the initial assault though the main attack shouldn't occur until after the fuel runs out (if the attackers win the initial assault) Seriously though, when German National Socialists invaded Poland in 1939 did they send a telegraph first saying: Hello, We're going to come visit you next week for genocide and annexation. Prepare thy anus. --Sincerely, Adolph H. No, they didn't, warning is only something you should get if you can turn one of the attackers so they inform you or by planting a spy of your own in their organization. As I said earlier in the thread, I understand the need for some "delay the final battle" mechanic, though to have that delay occur before aggressions have is just asinine. Even if it is requiring people to attack within an 8 hour window, that in effect is still warning since the aggressors will be attacking when the defenders choose to allow them the opportunity. Giving little to no warning will keep corps vigilant. Requiring Fuel to delay the seizure attempt is a reasonable timer in that it gives the defenders an amount of time that they can control in which to gather their troops (whether they be corporate members or independent contractors). This allows attackers to still retain the element of surprise while also giving the defenders a way to actively delay the attack on their District. 1. Early warning systems not present in 1939 should be present in 20Million AD. Even if those systems are just some piece of communication intercept software that "sees" the aggressor troop movements and "warns" the intended target. Same with some form of sub-orbital defense network that keeps an enemy MCC/Flotilla from coming too close. 2. Attackers HAVE the element of suprise NOW, if you actually tried the game you'd be well aware that front corps occassionally are used to stage attacks, with the actual attack force being "ferried" in and the defending group has no idea who is actually going to meet them on the field until they load onto the barge OR INTO the battle itself. Only missing "surprise" element is the "when" which, if you're actually interested in having a fight with a PC Team and not an empty/noob battle, you wouldn't want it like that anyway. 3. IF you're unable to field a worthwhile group OR take part in one, there isn't a timer modification in the world that is going to help you. You can keep trying to turn territory "possession" into a constant flipflop back and forth between players on different sides of the planet, but the final outcome will be no-one owns anything, so no district generates anything, so no district is worth being fought over. Besides being able to brag, "Yeah we beat them all right. Went right over when no-one was there and beat them." Totally useless in any way in facillitating DUST being more than a simple lobby shooter. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

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