The Godfathers agree that there is no mafia problem

I'm kidding, but you know

Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation.

No-one has seen those opinions, why is there not a collective proposal from that distinguished group of major minds? Except for this little gold nugget:

"Region locking is stupid"

There is a massive conflict of interest, and lots of vested interest as well in that group.

I have yet to see an idea from the current PC lobby, other than Pokeys. There was another group of vested interest players that tried something like this, i.e. refuse to admit there is a problem, refuse to be honest and offer ideas that addressed the problem, but much rather criticize all changes/ideas that were proposed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

i have to repeat any kind of timers and districts control from corp will only result in stale PC and vets playing FW or pubs because their primary activity is locked for the time being

timers and locks are a bad core mechanic that needs to disappear

those people that want to be entitled to have a district and are anti social thus not in multi time zone alliance should not be able to defend the district or play 24/7



if you want to control a district and earn it while defending it with your alliance get a multi time zone alliance fro district security

There's already a game for that. It's called Planetside 2.

There has to be someway to manage it to make the landholding worthwhile. Having a window timer that's up-gradable to get a window of say 2 hours would be sufficient to create the gameplay you'd like to see.

An elite corp would probably find it worthwhile to upgrade their districts for the smallest windows possible, but a large corp full of low to medium skill players would probably just leave it at 4-8 hours for example.

During those windows battles would spin up nearly instantly.

I don't think this is as critical if you have a raid mechanic that I described above.

Would that not encourage you to recruit players to cover for you? With each District you add, you should be adding coverage /garrisons to your corporation.

As Jaysyn said it would encourage that because it's necessary. But as I pointed out before, if you allow attackers to attack whenever they want, you're looking at any point in a 24 hour window. Sure people can wake up early to do a PC match, but if the other side is doing it in a comfortable afternoon and you're defending at 4AM, that's not sustainable. So you really have to go under the assumption of what is possible in the long rune.

So if we say the average person can devote 8 hours to playing the game in a sustainable fashion, that means you need 16 guys for every 8 hours. You can recruit others to cover the empty time, so 2 more teams of 16 for a grand total of 48 players to defend a single district. 48 players needed for a single district seems excessive to me. Hell I think 8 hours might be a little much to expect, if people get off at 6PM and play till mightnight, that's only 6 hours for each group which would push the total needed players to 64).

There is also the issue of imbalance between regions in that there are far more NA players than Oceania and I imagine Europe lands somewhere in the middle. So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot.

As an aside, I'll admit that I'm not Uber Hardcore like some of the guys here. And while I'm willing to make some changes every once in a while, you have to remember that at the end of the day this is still a video game. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if I have to literally change my lifestyle, sleep, or work schedule so I can play the game....the fun starts to quickly evaporate and it turns into a chore.

As Jaysyn said it would encourage that because it's necessary. But as I pointed out before, if you allow attackers to attack whenever they want, you're looking at any point in a 24 hour window. Sure people can wake up early to do a PC match, but if the other side is doing it in a comfortable afternoon and you're defending at 4AM, that's not sustainable. So you really have to go under the assumption of what is possible in the long rune.

So if we say the average person can devote 8 hours to playing the game in a sustainable fashion, that means you need 16 guys for every 8 hours. You can recruit others to cover the empty time, so 2 more teams of 16 for a grand total of 48 players to defend a single district. 48 players needed for a single district seems excessive to me. Hell I think 8 hours might be a little much to expect, if people get off at 6PM and play till mightnight, that's only 6 hours for each group which would push the total needed players to 64).

There is also the issue of imbalance between regions in that there are far more NA players than Oceania and I imagine Europe lands somewhere in the middle. So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot.

As an aside, I'll admit that I'm not Uber Hardcore like some of the guys here. And while I'm willing to make some changes every once in a while, you have to remember that at the end of the day this is still a video game. Video games are supposed to be fun, and if I have to literally change my lifestyle, sleep, or work schedule so I can play the game....the fun starts to quickly evaporate and it turns into a chore.

just make multi time zone alliance you don't have to defend 24/7 alliance security is for that
people like you always think it seems my district only i have to defend it that is bad and only will hinder the game for others that want a shot at PC

you got friends outside of corp or alliances they are called mercs for a reason need two more because you're short hire them

if the attack is on the asia time zone let asia time zone corp from your alliance to handle it simple as that

if some one will take most oceania players so what man? it is politics and new eden life is harsh one time you lose one time you winn the community will balance it self w/o any artificial boundaries that are keeping others from playing their primarly game mode when they are online

seriously we need to stop with this elite approach and let the community dictate the power struggle alliances and corps not some timers and lock, we have one universe for that

no one demands for you to change your life style but still you're trying to be special not everything suppose to rely on only your or your corp shoulders, get into multi time zone alliance and problem solved

i have to repeat
more timers or any iteration of them will only result in stale game play and vets ruining noobs life in the game that will not grow because newbies will not have will to continue and grow to vets

PC should be dynamic and active like corp battles were and vets have to play it 24/7 w/o locks or the status quo will stay as it is
and that is small community because people needs time to grow in this game and they will not grow because vets have noting to do(locked districts) and will farm newbs in pub matches or q sync for them or play FW while wanting to play PC only

If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well **** that.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2.

What you propose won't cause people to enter alliances. It would cause all the serious players to quit and the vacuum would be filled by people who can't spell grabbing people out of local chat.

If you can attack instantly anytime the districts just won't matter. I can only assume that you'd need some start up ISK to even enter the fray. If your district was lost the same day you took it while you were asleep I think people would lose interest pretty quick. It would be no different than the frustration corps felt when they thought they were fighting Team X and find 15 Team Players when they enter the warbarge, except they'd log in and see they had nothing. I can picture the CEO saying, well **** that.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that PC corps now aren't going to recruit 500 players to maintain their holdings. They'll just turn on their PS4 and play PS2.

Zene Ren, you didn't fully read everything I said since I already addressed your counterpoints in the original post.



My point exactly. Even with a full day's notice, being attacked any time of the day is going to quickly cause issues. If we had an even distribution of players around the world it would be less of an issue, but which certain regions have small player bases that tend to clump into singular groups, whoever grabs those groups first is going to dominate. What you'll end up with is a handful of alliances dominating PC because they hold all of the players from a certain region, allowing them to freely take any district because the defenders will simply be unable to find anyone to recruit in those time zones.

I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle.

i can tell you guys one thing for sure we had timers mechanic till now did it worked?
did a variations of it worked?

instead of game mode for all vets we have elite club that most people within even tell it does not work and every variation will not
i am only saying

most vets do stomp newbs because they are locked off from the game mode they want to play only

do not worry about holding the districts for now open the flood gates let everybody who wants to play it as a focused mode play it and then just do minor tweaks with penalties or benefits after that when we will have data what needs to be done

"I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle."

we got that because of those locks and abusing mechanics constantly needing tweaks instead of adding new things

still if there is not that many of those then why are you even mentioning the threat of being attacked constantly at 4 am or some other not good for you hours? ( on a side note your arguments are starting to contradict each other)

pokey, "So if an Alliance snatches up most of the Oceanic players (Which would be easier given the lower player count), they're going to have a distinct advantage that is nearly impossible to counter since no one will be left to defend against them in that time slot."

so what you will have at least what to do battling PC to reclaim them in your preferred time zone and the"wheel will be constantly turning"

PC guys will have constant PC, newbs will have peace in public contracts w/o proto stompers and advanced SP people will have FW where is harm in that?

i can't believe that only the honor of those PC vet elite group will be damaged a bit because they would have to reclaim lost districts but guess what PC will be open and the game mode everybody vet wants to be in will be used

in time as i said community will balance itself out with how many districts you can control and hold for longer as in every open sandbox environment

To point out where he's coming from here Zene.

No new to PC corps would be able to take anything from the sure to pop up super alliance during the North American prime times. Their only hope would be to hit them during Euro, Asian, or Australian prime times. But they'd quickly find out that the super alliance had locked up all the talent in that timezone as well.

If CCP completely removed timers one of two things would happen: 1) ALL of the current PC community would band together to prevent the "wake up and everything is gone" scenario OR 2) CCP's most dedicated, highest spending clientele would exit the building and give up the last of the hope they had left.

If it's a constant gain and loss of districts you'd never be able to recoup your ISK investment.

man seriously you behave like a fortune teller
how do you know that all would leave or that new players will not be able to, seriously talking about self entitlement nvm mind though...

community newbs and vets would control that after some time the community playing the game would balance itself also as in every sandbox game the community always balance it self w/o any issue

those artificial boundaries (timers in this case) are what makes imbalance

i took that under consideration Thor but still PC will be open for others to try and play that mode only, we can not say that everybody will consolidate to "rule them all" but the game mode will be there and underdogs will have a constant shot at playing PC
where's harm in that for a start, later we can tweak that but w/o those forsaken timers and locking ready to be abused mechanic

You think the best players in the game that have spent nearly 2 years fighting in PC feel entitled? I guess I'd have to agree.

I'm sure all of null sec in Eve would feel pretty entitled and would act negatively to say the least if they made mining ships, ratting ships, and mobile siphon units invincible. That's basically the same thing right? Giving the casual players the ability to completely **** all over the sandbox they've worked to build.

I'd rather CCP not go from one extreme to another.

i can tell you guys one thing for sure we had timers mechanic till now did it worked?
did a variations of it worked?

instead of game mode for all vets we have elite club that most people within even tell it does not work and every variation will not
i am only saying

most vets do stomp newbs because they are locked off from the game mode they want to play only

do not worry about holding the districts for now open the flood gates let everybody who wants to play it as a focused mode play it and then just do minor tweaks with penalties or benefits after that when we will have data what needs to be done

"I mean honestly, can someone list out the remaining active PC-capable corps from Australian/Japan? How many can there be? 5? 10? Whichever alliances recruit those corps first will be holding all of the cards and we'll just have another blue waffle."

we got that because of those locks and abusing mechanics constantly needing tweaks instead of adding new things

still if there is not that many of those then why are you even mentioning the threat of being attacked constantly at 4 am or some other not good for you hours? ( on a side note your arguments are starting to contradict each other)

We never had a real variant on timers, only how end of battle results would proc to help mitigate the district locking. No major or substantial change was made to the way timers worked. You're running under the assumption that any sort of timer whatsoever will have the same results but that thought process is misguided.

I'm not advocating for some elite club, I'm advocating that a corporation shouldn't just automatically win because it's in a time zone the other side can't defend against.

And I'm not contradicting myself. If a single Japanese corp can casually launch PC matches during the afternoon against a NA corporation at some god awful hour in the morning, they can keep those attacks up forever and do so without breaking a sweat, whereas the NA corp will burn out quickly because of ****** times. Ok so the NA corp has to recruit a Japanese corp to fight the Japanese....but what do they do if all of the Japanese Corps are already taken?

Additionally you'll come back with "Well the Americans can just attack back at a time that works for them and the Japanese will be in the same boat!" but heres the deal. Due to the LARGE spready in player count, a Japanese corp will NEVER have a hard time finding a NA alliance to defend for them becuase there are a lot of NA groups. However a NA Alliance will struggle to find a Japanese corp for their alliance.

Even if we assume there are 2 NA alliances for every Oceanic corporation, that means that half the alliances will be unable to defend the Oceanic time slot. Does that seem right to you? So what choice do they have? THey'll be forced to just merge with another alliance, ok so now we have just a small handful of Super Alliances, and their numbers will basically be entirely dictated by the number of separate group available in odd time regions.

And you're not really correct, there were indeed more Oceanic groups before PC went to ****, but there was never even close an even distribution of players globally, so this problem would have persisted anyways. Hell the Oceanic server was shut down BECAUSE there were so few players on it. No amount of increased activity will avoid this issue unless the global player population is brought up to be nearly even.

LOL @ the people who can't manage to make a dent or foothold in PC as it currently stands. You really think your interests are best served by complete timer removal?? That a "Suprise Raiding" mechanic will grant you an ability to "be in PC"? Better think that one through- Who, exactly, do you think will comprise the most prolific raiding groups? Small groups that couldn't gather a competitive 16 team or existing Molden Heath Mafia Hitsquad corps, who already are able to field multiple top-tier teams as needed?

OH my, the tears will be fantastic in here when the QQnoobs realize they've just advocated to never exist in PC since they will never have a moments rest since they'll be attackable by pro's 24/7.

US Civil War history has an example of what timer removal will do to Molden Heath/PC. Its called "Sherman's March".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27s_March_to_the_Sea

they will struggle to get other time zone corps but it will not be impossible like it is now with any form of timers and locks

yes you 're contradicting yourself a bit because you over estimate other regions fighting force and then try to put fear into people that stay behind open mechanic by crating artificial scenarios although they are better then constantly abusing timers mechanic to rule them all by it

it still be always open to play for underdogs that want to do only PC and the wheels will turn all the time

yes but then they did not have any alliance tools to respond for an attack on any of their corp districts beside mailing and pub channels and that is not enough

where is the sense in playing PC if it is always closed for participants creating other issues for other game modes?