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Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 0	Posted - 2015.01.12 16:54:00 - [1] - Quote I am one of many vehicle pilots in this game who has kept their silence on this topic for a very long time now. I have finally decided to speak up because I have just gotten sick of the situation where I am in a incubus/Python and am suddenly hit by a volley of swarms and when I try to use my shield booster another volley hits and cancels my shield boosters effect and from that point on I am as good as dead. This is a complete joke. How should a fully specked ADS pilot with close to 9 million sp into vehicles and using a ADS that costs close to 300k isk should even have to worry by being taken down by a sole dancing minmando that would have maybe 2mill sp at max put into AV (including suit) and that fit would cost at most 170k isk, maybe more, i am not sure. So my point, in this instance, is that it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. And now for tanks vs AV. Now tanks are not in anywhere near the same state as drop ships are but are none the less severely under powered and, as is the way for all vehicles, incredibly boring as far as modules and capabilities are concerned. I was looking at what was planned for vehicles in March 2014 and i was blown away by what they were planning for the Force recon drop ship and Marauder tanks. They were planning to have a much more EVE like modules and ideas that were amazing and would add huge variety of possible fittings. Returning to the topic at hand whilst tanks have relatively good survivability they will have to run from AV which should not be the case, it should be vice versa but, it is not. I can go an entire day and not lose my XT Gunnlogi but if, I was in a Madrugar I could easily be brought down by pretty mundane AV. Tanks in this game do not bring the fear factor that they should. For instance if i were to see a tank in Battlefield or Planetside i would think "oh crap i need to run and take cover" but in dust the mentality for seeing a Ion cannon Madrugar is "okay where is the closest supply depot so i can break out the the swarms and take this guy down completely on my own". For starters, the Madrugar needs a huge buff because they are just a farce and secondly this should not be the reaction people should have. People who use AV should be the ones scared of a tank not the other way around. Not only this but Vehicles serve no purpose on the battlefield anymore and the original form of skirmish should be brought back where there is a attacking and defending and only one MCC trying to get across the battlefield without dying and the attacking team has to shut down the null cannons to allow the MCC to survive. But this was not only a better game mode but also gave vehicles a purpose in the game where a group of tanks could bombard a Null cannon and eventually destroy it . Recommendations What i would recommend is to not necessarily nerf AV but to buff vehicles so that they could have more of a presence on the Battlefield and add a couple of tank orientated maps. Because on a lot of maps vehicles can not get anywhere the action.[list] - Increase the ability for tanks to withstand constant bombardment from average AV (siege modules etc.) - Remodel the game modes to make vehicles viable - Reintroduce weapon variations for both small and large turrets - Reintroduce Marauder HAVs, Logi DS and LAV - Add the Force recon DS with a pre-fitted cloak - Reintroduce the variety off modules that used to be in the game and add some new ones. - New vehicle orientated maps with wide open expanses and no buildings where vehicle transport is needed to achieve victory - Remove the RDV and replace it with a type of vehicle up link at the back of bases to safely deploy vehicles and remove the chance of an DS tapping a RDV and killing it. - Replace the supply depots so that there is in every game a reachable supply depot for tanks. I hope that this has not been a complete waste of time and that the devs actually may realize that the vast majority of people on these forums are seeking to make this a more main stream mediocre game that when new players play this game they see a game that is trying to be like Battlefield except much slower and more boring. And this is happening because these people want to keep the game the same and keep their bullshit tactics that make the game boring. I was in a game yesterday where the enemy team just sat on top of a building with AV and just stayed there for the entire game and never even tried to take the objective. This is the main reason why a lot of new players are turning away from the game because they have more polished games like Battlefield and other more popular well known games on the market. This game would attract certain types of players who would like the EVE style of game style if the vehicle fittings, it would bring a whole new group of players and a lot of old ones. This would also bring a unique game to the market and would attract and KEEP new players because this game has a lot of new players that would hear of the game and try it out and then would be disappointed when they see that there is more vehicle customization in Battlefield and Planetside. As far as I am aware the EVE online community has greatly expanded over the past few few years because of it is a unique game that has not been seen before that offers a wide variety of ways to play the game. But in Dust there could be three tankers that would be using the same Gunnlogi fitting with maybe a different turret at most. This game has more potential then all other FPS games on the market and if the connection with EVE is utilized properly it could be un-matched in the gaming world. It just needs more content and a wider variety of ways for vehicles in particular to be used. All the devs need to do is not always listen to the community and should try to get the rest of the community involved in these discussions.To get the full picture.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5301	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:11:00 - [2] - Quote LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15011	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:16:00 - [3] - Quote This post makes me want to cry. Not because it's probably going to give me cancer, but because I already promised not to troll Pilots until tomorrow. Why couldn't you have posted it then? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 1	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:17:00 - [4] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. I do not think i should be immune to good AV but to average AV yes because im in a tank that would cost 3 times the amount and i would have far more sp invested so yes i should be immune to a a bunch of crap swarms or AV or at least i should be able to withstand it for far longer than i can now because at the moment i have to run to survive from all but the worst AV.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 5	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:20:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: This post makes me want to cry. Not because it's probably going to give me cancer, but because I already promised not to troll Pilots until tomorrow. Why couldn't you have posted it then? So you are one of these biased AV people who have no understanding of what it is like to be a pilot then well then i say to you that people like you are the reason why this game is failing to bring in new players
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5301	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:21:00 - [6] - Quote Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 5	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:26:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 860	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:27:00 - [8] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Alright let's bump the swarm launcher cost up to 200k since they should be able to solo a Python. (Remember Pythons are STD so STD Swarms will be 200k. While we're at it we should also make Pythons invisible. See how fast the 1=1 argument deteriorates? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 860	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:28:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Such a gracious and just CPM. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 288	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:31:00 - [10] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Wrong, wrong and dead wrong. Stop with the vehicles should be the same as infantry arguement. One AVer is easy mode and thus spammed to death when buffed. VEHICLEPHOBIA! I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5305	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:32:00 - [11] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1672	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:34:00 - [12] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Boy is it gonna get bad when they next tier is released and all these people like the OP will have what they want but they will have to spend the SP's to get it , those who haven't will complain that it's too much , most still wont be satisfied but they vets will be content if they just play it out and see how the situation is , AV will complain and ask for a buff if their not experienced ... calling vehicles OP but not understanding the dynamic , you can't make everyone happy and all the DS pilots who complain are scrubs ( sorry but true ) I fly around in a militia with no investment and if I get shot down it's understood but it barely almost never happens , crash more then I get shot down and that's because I had over 15 mil before my first respec and I did a vehicle respec as well just to see and I gained a lot from that experience . I remember when pilots use to shoot at 50% increase and stack pilots on top of that and lead the board in most matches , couldn't swarm them because of the high ROF and just spamming rounds with gunners left them mostly free roam , even from forgers . That was just where they wanted it and hence the constant complaints from pilots when HAV / LAV users say nothing but they have to deal with far more anti-vehicle efforts then air vehicles . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 861	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:37:00 - [13] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Wow you really are ***** ******. Infantry can't escape? Ever heard of a roof or a door or a wall, truck, railing? Yeah, tankers can bail from their tank in their dinky little mlt frontline fit. Dropship pilots bail and get smacked by the ship. You're wrong, and you're being an ass on top of it. First time I lost all respect for a CPM. Ever. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 64	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:38:00 - [14] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Cost. Is. Revelevent. Size. Is Relevant. Indeed what is the point in a currency if cost is irrelevant? Have a go at thinking about that for a second will you. And balance my friend is what makes games boring. Should I expect to be able to kill a titan in a frigate in EVE? No. No matter how much I shoot at it. I wouldn't even take on a battleship. The titan not only costs a few million times what a frigate costs, but is also several million times the mass. If someone who thinks a top end HAV shouldn't be able to tank a militia swarm launcher, started playing EVE, they would probably start whining that they can't kill all the battleships in their rookie ship. That's the analogy here. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 5	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:38:00 - [15] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Are you completely incompetent there is no turret left in this game that can hit infantry and infantry can take cover vehicles can not. As for you knowing more than me because you have clearly not tried out tanks whereas i have tried both AV and tanks and in my experience it is much easier to take down a vehicle with AV
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:42:00 - [16] - Quote Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 863	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:44:00 - [17] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 And a completely ignorant cpm who think's they know everything, but in reality knows next to nothing because they spend all day on the forums instead of playing. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 10	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:46:00 - [18] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 LOL you can not even come up with a solid argument to state your point. Vehicles are not overpowered and you can not prove otherwise
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:47:00 - [19] - Quote Um... we have to limit how many vehicles can be on the field at one time because of how overpowered they are. o_o CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 67	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:47:00 - [20] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 A CPM should at least try to be somewhat moderately impartial and respectful of others. And not to be too bias. I see you don't care much for that. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1673	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:48:00 - [21] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. They can hop out and kill you and hop back in and drive off but vehicles are in no means overpowering like you said and those mechanics IMO shouldn't be changed and should be looked at as hap hazard and part of the duty of the AVer in looking out for themselves . This game is becoming so vanilla and simple and plain , people complain about EQ spam and now players like myself who play solo can't help their team against stacked and q-sync teams who just have to sync pubs just because it's THAT serious . - Hey , let's go and wreck a pub against a bunch of random players and I hope that their fresh out the academy .... that will show them , make sure that you guys go PRO or go home ... better yet , give them a break and run APEX .. that way we can break their wallet as well as their sprit . Let's not get into the habit of policing everything so as to take all skill / instinct out of the game . Most of the people that complain do noting about anything and just wanna sit back on a couch and use their " I-win " and act like that's skill . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6338	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:48:00 - [22] - Quote This is the most moronic proposal and justification for vehicle balance I have ever seen. Congratulations. No, you do not get to be a God upon the battlefield striking dead all who displease you whilst being immune to retaliation. THIS thread exemplifies a question asked earlier of why there is so much hatred for vehicle users, and why my response was that hatred for vehicles has nothing to do with battlefield performance and everything to do with these forums. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 865	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:49:00 - [23] - Quote We have to limit how many vehicles are on the field so people don't make LAV roadbloacks. If the opposing team is all vehicles and you're playing dom and skirm, you win. It's like you don't even play or something. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1476	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:49:00 - [24] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 Alright, this got out of hand fast (surprised it was encited by a CPM O.o) So let me just say this: People need to look at their conduct before posting ANYTHING, especially in a stance where people look up to you. Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:50:00 - [25] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: A CPM should at least try to be somewhat moderately impartial and respectful of others. And not to be too bias. I see you don't care much for that. I am shooting down bias and being moderately impartial. :) The OP is outrageously biased and incredibly far off base. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:51:00 - [26] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Um... we have to limit how many vehicles can be on the field at one time because of how overpowered they are. o_o Wow that is actually all you can come up with? They have limited the number off vehicles that can be deployed because it would be overpowered if the tanks were powerfull enough. Which they are not.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 865	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:51:00 - [27] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: A CPM should at least try to be somewhat moderately impartial and respectful of others. And not to be too bias. I see you don't care much for that. I am shooting down bias and being moderately impartial. :) The OP is outrageously biased and incredibly far off base. Pot calling the kettle black. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3670	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:51:00 - [28] - Quote I just want to say, first create (or reintroduce) enjoybale vehicles, then balance AV on those vehicles. AV must come after vehicles, because without vehicles, AV would be useless. Situational awareness also known as passive scan. Minmatar omni-merc
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1660	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:51:00 - [29] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 69	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:52:00 - [30] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 Alright, this got out of hand fast (surprised it was encited by a CPM O.o) So let me just say this: People need to look at their conduct before posting ANYTHING, especially in a stance where people look up to you. Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... Agreed Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:53:00 - [31] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... I actually did read the rest. It just got funnier from there though. He wants a DS with a pre-fitted cloak, he wants vehicles to spawn on the ground, and he wants vehicles' defenses buffed, and probably a couple other things designed to ensure he cannot ever die. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 421	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:53:00 - [32] - Quote 1. This is why CPM is generally disliked, biased and useless to boot 2. He is right on cost, AV is far cheaper and does a better job 3. Its far cheaper to skill into AV than to make a viable vehicle fit which can last 4. Vehicles only have 1 turret at best which can kill infantry, every other turret got nerfed 5. Proto AV bs BASIC vehicles
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1476	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:54:00 - [33] - Quote HIGHLY IMPORTANT!!! OP clearly says there needs to be a purpose for vehicles, right now it is to kill other vehicles, which is boring because all vehicle fights end in 30 seconds,where ISK just goes poof. Then its back to "farming" infantry, which is where the QQ comes from. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:54:00 - [34] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range. For one thing three volleys of a swarm could easily kill most ADSs and the swarms would knock the pilots aim off.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1476	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:55:00 - [35] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... I actually did read the rest. It just got funnier from there though. He wants a DS with a pre-fitted cloak, he wants vehicles to spawn on the ground, and he wants vehicles' defenses buffed, and probably a couple other things designed to ensure he cannot ever die. Also kinda disappointing where nobody can mute out the bad and at least acknowledge there is some semblance of a good idea somewhere... But its just easier to shoot everything down isn't it. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 69	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:56:00 - [36] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range. If I see an enemy ADS using a missile launcher, I get in an ADS with a railgun. Same with the HAV. That's a counter that this guy is not requesting to be nerfed. I guess the only problem you have with that is that it's too much effort for you. You want the easy way. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 69	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:57:00 - [37] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... I actually did read the rest. It just got funnier from there though. He wants a DS with a pre-fitted cloak, he wants vehicles to spawn on the ground, and he wants vehicles' defenses buffed, and probably a couple other things designed to ensure he cannot ever die. Have you never actually tried to kill a vehicle with another vehicle? Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1661	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:59:00 - [38] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range. For one thing three volleys of a swarm could easily kill most ADSs and the swarms would knock the pilots aim off. I must be volleying swarms at the minority of ADSs ... 90% of the time.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2857	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:01:00 - [39] - Quote So I have 60+m SP in infantry skills, suits and weapons. My proto suit costs me in excess of 200k isk. Along comes a starter suit with a basic shotgun and I die before I have a chance to react. Kinda sucks, don't it? That said, I tend to agree that AV is a bit OP at this point.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1760	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:01:00 - [40] - Quote There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons. If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use. I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame. PS: this thread will summon Spkr4theDead sooner or later

Duke Noobiam The Dukes of Death 335	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:03:00 - [41] - Quote Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1478	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:04:00 - [42] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons. If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use. I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame. What? Buff vehicles? But theyre already OP... Apparently. According to the blanket assumption that all vehicles are, not just SHIELDS vs SWARMS(armor based) Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1673	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:06:00 - [43] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Um... we have to limit how many vehicles can be on the field at one time because of how overpowered they are. o_o Wow that is actually all you can come up with? They have limited the number off vehicles that can be deployed because it would be overpowered if the tanks were powerfull enough. Which they are not. Well we have to limit the number of logi's , heavies and DAM sure scouts ... since people complain about their spam like EQ spam or rather links were complained about . Kinda like the entitlement of some who want to shut down the " spice " of this game . I AV and I can deal with dying while swarming by being killed by someone who hops out of their burning wreak and kill me and then in-turn hop back in and drive off , I can deal with getting shot down by forges and swarms while flying in a militia with no investment or a ADS with 20 to 30 mil behind it because I placed myself in that situation , yeah you can talk about invisible swarms and such but that's a problem with the game whereas , you have those who campaign to change the whole mechanics of the game and not addressing the real issues like not being able to check your mini map in certain areas from fear of falling in the " blue lagoon " or insta-killing yourself by suicide and you didn't try to do it , getting caught up on glitch terrain when in a light suit or not being able to jump in a heavy that's no more then 700 HP's or a Cal Sent at less then 5 . It's easy to move around things that are of no importance in a effort to look important while neglecting the REAL problems and issues . It's like the vehicle rework , when all they had to do is fix the numbers . You already had the vehicles and mods . Everyone wanna throw up numbers and spreadsheets like that make them right but in that instance the ball was dropped . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:06:00 - [44] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 239	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:06:00 - [45] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. I do not think i should be immune to good AV but to average AV yes because im in a tank that would cost 3 times the amount and i would have far more sp invested so yes i should be immune to a a bunch of crap swarms or AV or at least i should be able to withstand it for far longer than i can now because at the moment i have to run to survive from all but the worst AV. First off i have been playing since closed beta, and have done just about every role i could in this game. except scouts just getting into that role. in your original post there were some things that i do agree with and other things that i don't. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? it take 3 seconds to lock about 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. i do not know how you fly but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. my python is more of a glass cannon which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible but at that point im already out of the hot zone. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? I agree that people who camp roof tops suck ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, every once in a while it will be because of some random bull swarms not rendering or extreme knock around. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1760	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:07:00 - [46] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons. If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use. I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame. What? Buff vehicles? But theyre already OP... Apparently. According to the blanket assumption that all vehicles are, not just SHIELDS vs SWARMS(armor based) I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1478	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:13:00 - [47] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 288	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:15:00 - [48] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 And then there's you who troll on about not wanting vehicles to be what they should be, which is more than one infantryman. Worst concept for game design ever! Please don't design ground combat games. The market is bad enough as is. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:16:00 - [49] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. Seriously if you used to lose 5 or 6 200k suits trying to take down a ADS then you are a tryhard and also now a ADS has a 0% chance of killing a forge gunner and about a20% chance of killing a minmando in time before he is brought down which is not exactly fare now is it? And you say the game should be fun for everyone what about pilots? Should they be neglected? because that is what you are saying Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 239	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:16:00 - [50] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Are you completely incompetent there is no turret left in this game that can hit infantry and infantry can take cover vehicles can not. As for you knowing more than me because you have clearly not tried out tanks whereas i have tried both AV and tanks and in my experience it is much easier to take down a vehicle with AV I haven no problem hitting and killing inf. with turrets except the rail havent figured its secret yet but i can kill a majority of inf. using the missile DS/ADS and blaster LAV, i suck at tanking i admit ( i no like the way they move ) Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1674	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:17:00 - [51] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day It goes to how you set your builds but how many know what mod to place and how to use it ??? When I'm on the ground and I happen to kill a LAV or HAV user and jack their vehicles , it's a wonder how they survive with their set up's but people sure know how to cry wolf though and claim something is overpowering . I rarely get out of my vehicles and that was because I knew that if the right person killed me , they would wreak my team with my set up . I might not be able to but some are resourceful . I had my fitting and core maxed and always kept the best mods on my vehicles . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 288	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:18:00 - [52] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: A CPM should at least try to be somewhat moderately impartial and respectful of others. And not to be too bias. I see you don't care much for that. I am shooting down bias and being moderately impartial. :) The OP is outrageously biased and incredibly far off base. Bullsh*t you are impartial. so long as you get your way right? I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 180	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:18:00 - [53] - Quote The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 158	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:21:00 - [54] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. If we talk about freaking tanks like marauders that cost over 2 millions, thr idea should be something hard to break Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:23:00 - [55] - Quote The most amount of kills I ever got in a tank was 48 since the beginning of the closed beta. But i got at least 3 games where i got over 60 kills with twin millita flaylocks. And i could never get that with the best of tanks Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2725	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:27:00 - [56] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. He never said anything about immunity, he said tanks should be feared like they once were. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Finn Colman Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 107	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:28:00 - [57] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you absolutely have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't always have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry (given proper circumstance), and they don't always have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and possibly survive or die in awkward ways, continuing to deny opponents from actually getting credit for killing them. Boring, "properly fitted" vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. I think I fixed most of that for you, although I can't really insert the part where you actually respond to the question of how cost is irrelevant. You have a very absolutist way of phrasing everything, and you are obviously lacking in observation skills. Personally, I feel the main problem with the Vehicle/AV imbalance is that vehicles really do lack a purpose. This became very obvious to me when I played Planetside 2 for the first time, where it seemed that vehicles have a few different roles, and the least of which was slaughtering infantry. One of the first things I did when I played PS2 was lead an armor column (I don't even consider driving tanks in Dust, because I find them rather dull and I have always liked flight). Our primary role, was to act as mobile and flexible cover for advancing infantry, and to destroy advancing enemy armor. The only time I engaged infantry was when they were wearing a vehicle-grade mech suit. Most AI weapons equipped to vehicles are primarily for defending the vehicle, it's passengers, and little else. If it isn't used as cover, anti-armor, or anti-air it is used as a very effective troop transport. When I played PS2 it was like a war, not just a bunch of isolated battles. You had to use an ATV or at least rely on a decent vehicle operator just to fight in PS2 (because walking halfway across a continent is just absurd). Most of this, I think, is owed to the fact that the battles have a fairly large number of people and the fact that you aren't just fighting over one objective, but a whole continent. Dust is a bit too small, symmetrical, simple, and incomplete, and the EVE link is minimal. If it weren't for the simple economics of Dust I think I would rather just play PS2. PSA: Tell players to terminate in order to access mCRUs.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2725	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:28:00 - [58] - Quote Atiim wrote: This post makes me want to cry. Not because it's probably going to give me cancer, but because I already promised not to troll Pilots until tomorrow. Why couldn't you have posted it then? As if it's difficult to destroy a tank. I have a Minmando alt, and destroyed a Gorgon in just 3 volleys. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 239	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:30:00 - [59] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. I have yet to see a BUFF AV thread or a NERF vehcle thread as of lately so how can you say that? all ive seen is AV is OP threads. i know that my swarms are not good against shield vehicles hardened or not but i QQ for a buff to my weapon of choice. i just find a way around it ie. waiting for the hardnerders to go on cool down then attacking Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 17	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:31:00 - [60] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. You honestly think AV needs a buff? so you basically want to have 1 shot swarms and forge guns? If a tank reverses and hits a a wall (which is highly likely because it takes forever to turn your turret to look behind) it will get stuck on that wall. I see experienced tank drivers getting killed regularly by adv AV and ADS pilots dont stand a chance. So you should not comment on something you know nothing about. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2726	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:33:00 - [61] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) It's a little over 1mil to access PRO swarms. It's about 10mil SP to get a good tank fit together. AV also costs next to nothing, compared to what it used to cost during Chrome. An Ishukone forge used to cost 117k ISK. Now it's around 60k. A good tank fit is 300k ISK up. Why should such a cheap AV be able to easily solo an expensive tank? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1676	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:38:00 - [62] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 This REALLY fracked my head up , watching the beauty that was and how you had to fit your vehicles and actually have to activate mods and think about your fits before you went into battle . None of the vanilla crap that's the here and now . I just got mad watching this because of how everything was so interactive . These people sure know how to screw up a good thing . Thanks jerks . Oh these players in this forum now who wasn't there would $h!t their pants if they had to deal with that now . Funny part about it , the way people have AV ... unlike then , it wouldn't be hard but just wait until the next tier come . These people will have a pissy fit . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 72	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:38:00 - [63] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. I don't see how it matters if the tanker dies or not. The AVer gets pretty wood WP for simply damaging the vehicle. How do you think that it is reasonable to demand that you are given the means to kill a proto HAV with any degree of ease. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
LHughes Dead Man's Game RUST415 251	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:40:00 - [64] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) So 16 Militia fits should be the same as16 Proto fits.... Why do we have Isk if cost is irrelevant?.... How are you a CPM? That moment when you walk in on Rattati in the shower but he hasn't undressed yet He's such a tease xx
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 19	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:41:00 - [65] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. I have yet to see a BUFF AV thread or a NERF vehcle thread as of lately so how can you say that? all ive seen is AV is OP threads. i know that my swarms are not good against shield vehicles hardened or not but i QQ for a buff to my weapon of choice. i just find a way around it ie. waiting for the hardnerders to go on cool down then attacking All the calls to buff AV happen in the buff vehicle threads. And yes hardened shield tanks are hard to to take down with maxed out skills a shield hardener will last 45 seconds and a cool down of 60 seconds. so it is too often that you have to retreat and for the majority of the game you cant do anything. so while shield is good while hardened against swarms the active tanking style is very inconvenient. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2726	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:44:00 - [66] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I clearly know a lot more than you. Clearly not For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. What are supposed to do when swarms have a longer max range than a railgun, and are idiot proof? Whereas AV doesn't have that option. lolwut you mean to tell me infantry can't go around a corner, or duck below a hill, or run inside a building? lol Vehicles outright kill infantry, If it's a body shot with a railgun, yeah, it's outright killing infantry. The large blaster is down to luck and pilot experience, and even with my experience, it still takes far too long to kill infantry with an ion cannon, nevermind a STD blaster. and they don't have the opportunity to escape. See above. Scouts can also cloak and run away so they don't die. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, You mean to tell me we can anticipate 5000 damage coming from 3 different sources of AV? lol continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. See above - yet it's unfair for vehicles to seek cover when we're getting pounded by what's essentially asteroids. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, lol no they're not. even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Infantry continued to complain, even though pilots adapted to increasingly bad situations with continuously nerfed vehicles. It was basically nerfing intelligence and ingenuity. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2726	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:45:00 - [67] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: First time I lost all respect for a CPM. Ever. You're forgetting Judge being AWOL. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:46:00 - [68] - Quote I can't believe this bad thread is still going. Kill it with fire, guys. LHughes wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) So 16 Militia fits should be the same as16 Proto fits.... Why do we have Isk if cost is irrelevant?.... How are you a CPM? A militia suit can kill a proto suit. But this guy says an AV shouldn't be able to kill a HAV. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2726	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:46:00 - [69] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 lolk I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2726	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:48:00 - [70] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Um... we have to limit how many vehicles can be on the field at one time because of how overpowered they are. o_o Vehicles are limited, the number is at 7. If you play game, and if you use vehicles, you'd know that. Oh, and the Bolas counts towards the 7. So no, we can't have 7 vehicles coming in at the same time. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 183	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:48:00 - [71] - Quote My last post in this thread 81-3 81-3 81 and ******* 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2P9lBIBh9s
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2727	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:49:00 - [72] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This is the most moronic proposal and justification for vehicle balance I have ever seen. Congratulations. No, you do not get to be a God upon the battlefield striking dead all who displease you whilst being immune to retaliation. THIS thread exemplifies a question asked earlier of why there is so much hatred for vehicle users, and why my response was that hatred for vehicles has nothing to do with battlefield performance and everything to do with these forums. If you were a pilot, you'd agree. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 424	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:50:00 - [73] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I can't believe this bad thread is still going. Kill it with fire, guys. . 1. I cant believe this bad CPM is still a CPM. Kill it with fire guys
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2727	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:51:00 - [74] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: A CPM should at least try to be somewhat moderately impartial and respectful of others. And not to be too bias. I see you don't care much for that. I am shooting down bias and being moderately impartial. :) The OP is outrageously biased and incredibly far off base. He's not biased, he just wants his ISK and SP investments to be worth it. The only thing that makes it worth it is experience, and you clearly have none in vehicles. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2727	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:52:00 - [75] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. You obviously don't have any experience in an ADS. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:52:00 - [76] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. I have yet to see a BUFF AV thread or a NERF vehcle thread as of lately so how can you say that? all ive seen is AV is OP threads. i know that my swarms are not good against shield vehicles hardened or not but i QQ for a buff to my weapon of choice. i just find a way around it ie. waiting for the hardnerders to go on cool down then attacking All the calls to buff AV happen in the buff vehicle threads. And yes hardened shield tanks are hard to to take down with maxed out skills a shield hardener will last 45 seconds and a cool down of 60 seconds. so it is too often that you have to retreat and for the majority of the game you cant do anything. so while shield is good while hardened against swarms the active tanking style is very inconvenient. i haven't seen any one in this thread say AV needs a buff or have i missed it? and yet if some even said to buff AV it would be a response to the tank QQ about AV, what im talking about is a thread specifically started to get AV buffed like all the tank threads about being underpowered or complaining that AV is overpowered. dont get me wrong there might be some one saying AV needs x,y,z. but as for seeing it in GD i havent seen one or every tanker and pilot would be down that persons throat. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:53:00 - [77] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. You obviously don't have any experience in an ADS. hey buddy still going to pretend that you know what you're talking about? Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:54:00 - [78] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Um... we have to limit how many vehicles can be on the field at one time because of how overpowered they are. o_o Vehicles are limited, the number is at 7. If you play game, and if you use vehicles, you'd know that. Oh, and the Bolas counts towards the 7. So no, we can't have 7 vehicles coming in at the same time. wrong i have seen 4 tanks and 3 ADS in a match do you even pilot? Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2727	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:55:00 - [79] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: My proto suit costs me in excess of 200k isk. Along comes a starter suit with a basic shotgun and I die before I have a chance to react. Kinda sucks, don't it? 1. Don't use PRO all the time. 2. Skill into eWar. 3. Pay attention to your surroundings. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 20	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:55:00 - [80] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: . If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. I think this disproves you pocket rocket girl Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community

Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 77	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:56:00 - [81] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. You obviously don't have any experience in an ADS. hey buddy still going to pretend that you know what you're talking about? I don't know why... you don't just play CoD. Seems more your type of game. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:01:00 - [82] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. You obviously don't have any experience in an ADS. hey buddy still going to pretend that you know what you're talking about? I don't know why... you don't just play CoD. Seems more your type of game. why dont you just be a better tanker? if i can survive with a myron why can you with a tank? and no i actually refuse to play that crappy game, never have never will. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16509	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:01:00 - [83] - Quote QQ MOAR! *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1664	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:01:00 - [84] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is the most moronic proposal and justification for vehicle balance I have ever seen. Congratulations. No, you do not get to be a God upon the battlefield striking dead all who displease you whilst being immune to retaliation. THIS thread exemplifies a question asked earlier of why there is so much hatred for vehicle users, and why my response was that hatred for vehicles has nothing to do with battlefield performance and everything to do with these forums. If you were a pilot, you'd agree. I believe you're mistaken. I imagine that Breakin Stuff realizes that a win button has no place in a multiplayer game. If handed one, I imagine he'd propose ideas on how to fix it, rather than cling to it or attempt to make excuses for it. Much like he's done with the HMG.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2729	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:02:00 - [85] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. There's cloaking AV scouts, there's buildings, there's walls, there's roofs. You mean to tell me that AV should be able to stand dead still and not have to worry about being killed and losing their suit? lol The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Almost 500k for one of my tanks vs 150k. Infantry has to die 3 times to equal the cost of my one death and loss of one tank. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. I was in a PC a few weeks ago where a Minmando nearly soloed my tank. It wasn't a situational awareness problem. It's a weak tank problem. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. No, it's when swarms have a longer max range than a railgun, traverse terrain like the 160th SOAR, and ignore obstacles in their path. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. See above If anything, other types of AV need a boost, A PRO breach forge gun round to the rear end of a tank (167%) can one-shot a base HP tank. You really mean to tell me that needs a buff? I 4-shot bobthecakeman with a PRO assault forge when he was on a bridge, that needs to be buffed? Swarms have a max range of 400m, they ignore terrain and obstacles, that needs a buff? in no way do tanks need a buff. [i]Yes they do, you're not a pilot, and you likely have 0 experience in a vehicle. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6340	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:03:00 - [86] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is the most moronic proposal and justification for vehicle balance I have ever seen. Congratulations. No, you do not get to be a God upon the battlefield striking dead all who displease you whilst being immune to retaliation. THIS thread exemplifies a question asked earlier of why there is so much hatred for vehicle users, and why my response was that hatred for vehicles has nothing to do with battlefield performance and everything to do with these forums. If you were a pilot, you'd agree. The hell I would. I'm a maddy pilot and even from THAT perspective, WTF is this nerd talking about? What he's rattling on goes far beyond marauder power in chrome. And I LIKED marauders in Chrome. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 77	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:03:00 - [87] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. I think I've figured you out... YES! YES I THINK I HAVE!!! OMG I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE MY OWN GENIUS!!! You have an unhealthy obsession with your K/D ratio. Yeah, sorry to break the news to you, I know it must be hard news to stomach. I knew a few guys who had that problem, they had to get therapy and everything. Don't worry buddy you'll pull through. Just stay strong! Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2729	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:04:00 - [88] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. That's not the pilot's fault, and it's not the AV's fault. It's your fault, and the problem is, you just can't use AV well. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 77	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:06:00 - [89] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. You obviously don't have any experience in an ADS. hey buddy still going to pretend that you know what you're talking about? I don't know why... you don't just play CoD. Seems more your type of game. why dont you just be a better tanker? if i can survive with a myron why can you with a tank? and no i actually refuse to play that crappy game, never have never will. Don't worry man I'm pretty good at surviving. That's actually the easy part. Now the hard part is being of any real use on the battle field. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2861	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:08:00 - [90] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: My proto suit costs me in excess of 200k isk. Along comes a starter suit with a basic shotgun and I die before I have a chance to react. Kinda sucks, don't it? 1. Don't use PRO all the time. 2. Skill into eWar. 3. Pay attention to your surroundings. 4. Retune your sarcasm meter.

Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:10:00 - [91] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: . If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. I think this disproves you pocket rocket girl i never said i was right i ask if i missed it, and besides like i sad i was talking about threads in GD like "the problem with vehicles and lack of purpose....and av " or Daily swarm QQ" or Here's the deal people (making tanks relevent again) or Vehicles situation. or Is it me or Swarm Launchers are ridiculous? havent seen one with something like "AV buff needed tankers are too OP " Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:14:00 - [92] - Quote True Adamance wrote: QQ MOAR! well it is feeding time spkr is here Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 77	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:14:00 - [93] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: . If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. I think this disproves you pocket rocket girl i never said i was right i ask if i missed it, and besides like i sad i was talking about threads in GD like "the problem with vehicles and lack of purpose....and av " or Daily swarm QQ" or Here's the deal people (making tanks relevent again) or Vehicles situation. or Is it me or Swarm Launchers are ridiculous? havent seen one with something like "AV buff needed tankers are too OP " Go back 6 months and the forums were infested with those threads. Then all the cry babies got what they wanted and stopped crying. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:18:00 - [94] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Don't worry man I'm pretty good at surviving. That's actually the easy part. Now the hard part is being of any real use on the battle field. that's nice then why the QQ? i dont QQ when i cant kill a tank or a DS/ADS or when a hvy in his tank drives up to me and blaps me and hops back in? wait does this count as QQ ?, i understand not having a use on the battle field it sucks but complain about AV isnt going to give you a use on the field. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6340	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:20:00 - [95] - Quote This type of thread is one of my guilty pleasures. Entitled OP, ample time to sift through the real tears and trolls, spkr ranting about the fact that NO MATTER HOW OP VEHICLES ARE... they aren't OP enough. This is just badwrongfun, and I feel no guilt whatsoever. Meanwhile, I'll be in the HAV bring back initiative thread now that we have collectively pulled our heads out of our asses and are providing actual feedback. Please leave this crap in generally disgusting or the locker room where it belongs, and with a little luck, we might actually get decent Vehicles back. So I will end my participation in this thread by furiously licking the tears directly off the OP's face and laughing at the very concept that I would EVER agree that any win butan in my possession would be a good thing for this game. Because I'd make everyone else using it look like restrained and cautious children interested in fair play and fun. Just to make you scream. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2730	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:24:00 - [96] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: First off i have been playing since closed beta, If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy. and have done just about every role i could in this game. See above about piloting. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds. it take 3 seconds to lock One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done. bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, See above, stop lying. thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, See above, stop lying. the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage. i do not know how you fly That's because you're not a pilot. but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron Clearly not. that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. Swarms still annihilate shield ships. my python is more of a glass cannon It's far more glass than cannon. which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr. but at that point im already out of the hot zone. No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. See above You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference. Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles. but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV. I agree that people who camp roof tops suck [Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i] ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles. but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle. proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker Seems you're not a pilot at all. ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) See above-mentioned 400m swarms. but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 717	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:24:00 - [97] - Quote So I take out the tank/Ads but the driver jumps out in full slayer proto gear against my AV fit, LEGIT? Hapens to me al to often. Worst are tankers in heavy fittes that insta jumps out then kill any av that get close then insta pop in and dive of into the sunset Oh and every now and then I find my self in combat against a tank/ads that is almost impossible to kill solo Lone wolf / Pegasus prime/white lion/George45 ( or what Nr he has ) to mention a few. Even a hole team will have problems with em down. RESPECT to them War never changes
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2730	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:25:00 - [98] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. Armor is the problem - armor vehicles need to be improved to the level shield vehicles are at, not shield vehicles being nerfed to where armor vehicles are at. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1866	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:29:00 - [99] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. And here we're back to the antagonistic ways of soraya "I got your dropship nerfed" xel. There are some serious issues with av weapons either being ineffective or absolutely overperforming, while the op might not quite be correct, you are just as wrong simply on the opposite end of the spectrum. But hey thanks for homing in on that one sentence in a large list. FYI min commandos need to lose the bonus to swarms, it was never intended and it causes them to out damage plc or forges while being significantly easier and faster to use. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:29:00 - [100] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: . If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. I think this disproves you pocket rocket girl i never said i was right i ask if i missed it, and besides like i sad i was talking about threads in GD like "the problem with vehicles and lack of purpose....and av " or Daily swarm QQ" or Here's the deal people (making tanks relevent again) or Vehicles situation. or Is it me or Swarm Launchers are ridiculous? havent seen one with something like "AV buff needed tankers are too OP " Go back 6 months and the forums were infested with those threads. Then all the cry babies got what they wanted and stopped crying. I tried went back like 60 pages got about 5 pages though but then realized 6 months about it was all scout nerf QQ and hvy nerf QQ. still going to look though i could be wrong also GD isnt kept by date. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver

Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 23	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:32:00 - [101] - Quote Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. I have looked through some similar threads and its all the same where AV comes in and uses it as a platform to argue against making vehicles usefull and making them boring they are just happy as long as they still have points on wheels that have no chance of killing them. The devs just ignore these types of threads because they all end up with the some AV guy having a go at the author of the the thread and not even looking at the ideas. I really do not know why i bothered with this because the AV people of these forums are just hellbent on keeping this game boring and not successful. What has actually changed due to these forums? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because there are always the same group of people just bickering and what seriously dissapoints me is that a a member of the CPM would be so biased to not even consider and attempt to insult the author and his ideas. Really these forums are a farce and waste of time. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 81	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:33:00 - [102] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Don't worry man I'm pretty good at surviving. That's actually the easy part. Now the hard part is being of any real use on the battle field. that's nice then why the QQ? i dont QQ when i cant kill a tank or a DS/ADS or when a hvy in his tank drives up to me and blaps me and hops back in? wait does this count as QQ ?, i understand not having a use on the battle field it sucks but complain about AV isnt going to give you a use on the field. Infantry take the hack points. Infantry kill most clones. Infantry ultimately win the battle. What do vehicles do? Or better question what do you think vehicles should be doing? The LAV is spawned at the start as a mobility aid for heavies then forgotten about. The DS is spawned at the start of match, flies onto a tower then is also forgotten about. The ADS flies around a bit maybe farms some installations, shoots maybe 5 or 6 infantry then gets shot at by swarms then has to fly away possibly for the rest of the match. The HAV cowers in its redline and waits to see if an enemy calls in a HAV of their own so that they actually have something to shoot at. I could try killing some infantry with a large blaster but that thing is so ineffective at killing stuff now what's the point. And so as you can see all the serious vehicles are irrelevant. They can't even hold their own ground. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:33:00 - [103] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: But this guy says an AV shouldn't be able to kill a HAV. He said nothing of the sort. He said AV shouldn't be able to solo a vehicle easily. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:35:00 - [104] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. You obviously don't have any experience in an ADS. hey buddy still going to pretend that you know what you're talking about? I've been a pilot for nearly 2 years; I've suffered through many vehicle nerfs and AV buffs. Of course I know what I'm talking about. Then again you have different plumbing than I do, so you'll never accept my answer no matter what I say. Trying to argue with you is like talking to a brick wall. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:36:00 - [105] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: wrong i have seen 4 tanks and 3 ADS in a match do you even pilot? And I thought I was bad at math. 4 + 3 = 7 I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15014	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:38:00 - [106] - Quote It's not trolling if I tell the truth, right? @Vodar If you must know, I've been Piloting vehicles for over a year now and I'm well aware of how it's like to operate vehicles. Though of all the things causing new players to quit, I don't believe AVers are one of them. And to your OP: It costs more than 2mil SP to acquire a competent MinCom w/Swarms AV Rig, as you need to invest into a heavy amount of Core Skills to make your AV rig decent. That aside, using your logic you should never be able to stand up to my AV as I have around 15-20mil invested into my rig while you only have 9mil into yours. Also, there are still plenty of turrets capable of hitting Infantry (20GJ Railgun and Small Missile Launchers come to mind). Before I dive further into your argument, have you ever heard the phrase: "Teamwork for me, but no teamwork for thee"? @Stupid Blueberry Your analogies between the STD Swarm Launcher and the Python is silly, as the Python is a customizable frame making it comparable to a Dropsuit while the STD Swarm Launcher is a weapon making it compatible to a Turret. Comparing them in the reverse sense (as you just did) is akin to comparing the Caldari Logistics to a 20GJ Blaster. That aside, your analogy does have some other holes in it. The first problem, is that the STD Swarm Launcher is unable to kill anything besides parked LAVs and.. err... Stupid Blueberries. If we're to make the STD SL like the Python, wouldn't it be safe to say that the Python would need a nerf remove it's ability to kill anything beyond the former? Then there's the fact that not every STD Swarm Launcher is actually invisible, and that it's a glitch. That means that allowing players to utilize invisible Pythons would be an exploit, meaning that players who do use the Invisible Pythons would be banned from DUST 514. You don't want to completely remove the Pilot subset, do you? Soraya might be a bit abrasive at times, but at least he's showing up. @Operative The term phobia refers to "the fear of". That in mind, it'd be improper to accuse anyone of having "Vehiclephobia" as to be quite honest nobody outside of Academy Graduates fears vehicles as most Pilots aren't good enough to validate fearing. @Toolbar Zoobar The point of currency in this game is to prevent players from using the best gear in the game 24/7 (which failed miserably), and to offer a sense of progression (ie, as you become better your ISK total begins to increase). But I agree, balance does make this game boring. That's why we should increase the SL's lock range to 650m and volley speed to 50km/s, and increase the FG's damage per hit to around 8k. Make the Plasma Cannon's 15k as well. As you said, why strive for balanced gameplay when we could all be entertained by overpowered gear and broken gameplay? Where in the White Paper does it say that the CPM should always be impartial? Given how everyone takes the side of a debate or topic that wouldn't even be possible. Will update when I read further into the thread. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:38:00 - [107] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: why dont you just be a better tanker? if i can survive with a myron why can you with a tank? There's a point where you can't learn anymore, because you already have enough experience to attempt to take down any other tank, or engage infantry with a blaster, or just run away because there's 4 AV infantry demolishing you down to hell. And if you're surviving AV in a Myron, odds are you're going up against just one person with ADV swarms. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:40:00 - [108] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: I believe you're mistaken. I make mistakes with numbers, not what Ive experienced. I imagine that Breakin Stuff realizes that a win button has no place in a multiplayer game. None of us have ever said that we wanted vehicles to be an I-win button. We have been saying for a very long time that we want our SP and ISK investments to be worth the astronomical cost when compared against infantry's cost. If handed one, I imagine he'd propose ideas on how to fix it, By fixing it, you're alluding to nerfing vehicles through the ground. rather than cling to it or attempt to make excuses for it. "It killed me, nerf it. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:41:00 - [109] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is the most moronic proposal and justification for vehicle balance I have ever seen. Congratulations. No, you do not get to be a God upon the battlefield striking dead all who displease you whilst being immune to retaliation. THIS thread exemplifies a question asked earlier of why there is so much hatred for vehicle users, and why my response was that hatred for vehicles has nothing to do with battlefield performance and everything to do with these forums. If you were a pilot, you'd agree. The hell I would. I'm a maddy pilot and even from THAT perspective, WTF is this nerd talking about? What he's rattling on goes far beyond marauder power in chrome. And I LIKED marauders in Chrome. You're speaking from the perspective of a non-pilot. I argue from the perspective that I only want to be a pilot. It's natural for me to defend my position as forcefully as I possibly can. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 84	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:42:00 - [110] - Quote Atiim wrote: Nvm, thread is dead. yawn you don't understand what I meant I see. Lacking a few brain cells are you? I thought the EVE online analogy would have made it clear what I meant, oh well. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:42:00 - [111] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: My proto suit costs me in excess of 200k isk. Along comes a starter suit with a basic shotgun and I die before I have a chance to react. Kinda sucks, don't it? 1. Don't use PRO all the time. 2. Skill into eWar. 3. Pay attention to your surroundings. Thanks for the tips, I wasn't quite sure. lol Since we're sharing, please allow me to respond in-kind: 4. Retune your sarcasm meter. I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15014	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:46:00 - [112] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. Actually, what happened is that an AVer offered a rebuttal to your premise, than you offered a counter-argument while also claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). Then vehicle Pilots (mainly Stupid Blueberry, Toolbar Zoobar, and Spkr) decided to begin flaming your thread. The only AVers I see here is me (who only made one slightly off-topic statement), Breakin Stuff (who made only one speculation), and Soraya Xel (who was abrasive, yet still constructive). It's okay to not like AVers, but don't blame your problems on them when they're not the source. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:47:00 - [113] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This type of thread is one of my guilty pleasures. Entitled OP, ample time to sift through the real tears and trolls, spkr ranting about the fact that NO MATTER HOW OP VEHICLES ARE... Vehicles aren't OP. they aren't OP enough. Like I said, it sounds like you're arguing from the perspective of a non-pilot. This is just badwrongfun, and I feel no guilt whatsoever. Of course you don't. and with a little luck, we might actually get decent Vehicles back. Not when people are agreeing on making them trash before they're even brought back. So I will end my participation in this thread by furiously licking the tears directly off the OP's face Sounds.. ***** and laughing at the very concept that I would EVER agree that any win butan in my possession would be a good thing for this game. 400m max range swarms = I-win button. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:51:00 - [114] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: So I take out the tank/Ads but the driver jumps out in full slayer proto gear against my AV fit, LEGIT? What good will jumping out trying to kill you do when swarms have a max range of 400m? Hapens to me al to often. Engage on your terms, rather than running out into the open. Worst are tankers in heavy fittes that insta jumps out then kill any av that get close then insta pop in and dive of into the sunset We had to deal with swarms that were invisible 90% of the time, for a long time. Oh and every now and then I find my self in combat against a tank/ads that is almost impossible to kill solo So go find cover. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 87	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:54:00 - [115] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. Actually, what happened is that an AVer offered a rebuttal to your premise, than you offered a counter-argument while also claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). Then vehicle Pilots (mainly Stupid Blueberry, Toolbar Zoobar, and Spkr) decided to begin flaming your thread. The only AVers I see here is me (who only made one slightly off-topic statement), Breakin Stuff (who made only one speculation), and Soraya Xel (who was abrasive, yet still constructive). It's okay to not like AVers, but don't blame your problems on them when they're not the source. I've been piloting vehicles for over 2 years. I remember the chrome days and I have also played EVE. And it is with that experience that I realized vehicles in this game could have been something truly unique and it is this that frustrates me. And I personally don't blame the AVers all that much (although that 3rd swarm volley wtf). I mostly blame the game modes. Again if perhaps you played EVE, which i'm assuming you haven't, then maybe you'll see the light. Know what I mean? Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:54:00 - [116] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: First off i have been playing since closed beta, If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy. and have done just about every role i could in this game. See above about piloting. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds. it take 3 seconds to lock One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done. bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, See above, stop lying. thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, See above, stop lying. the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage. i do not know how you fly That's because you're not a pilot. but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron Clearly not. that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. Swarms still annihilate shield ships. my python is more of a glass cannon It's far more glass than cannon. which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr. but at that point im already out of the hot zone. No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. See above You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference. Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles. but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV. I agree that people who camp roof tops suck [Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i] ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles. but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle. proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker Seems you're not a pilot at all. ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) See above-mentioned 400m swarms. but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds. until you can actually answer the question in this thread anything you say is null, you have yet to give a single example of how to improve vehicles all you have said is that AV is OP and it appears that's all you can do. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:58:00 - [117] - Quote Atiim wrote: claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). You are biased, and clearly aren't a pilot, because if you actually were, you'd know how difficult it is. As I've said to you multiple times, merely having access to vehicle hulls and modules and turrets doesn't make you a pilot. It's the experience to make them effective that makes you a pilot. Then vehicle Pilots (mainly Stupid Blueberry, Toolbar Zoobar, and Spkr) decided to begin flaming your thread. We reply to people that obviously don't know what they're talking. Soraya Xel (who was abrasive, yet still constructive). He wasn't being constructive at all. He's a member of the CPM; supposed to be unbiased. They're representatives for the community to forward ideas directly to CCP. Him trolling the OP as bad as he did is not being constructive, or a good person, or unbiased, and certainly doesn't reflect well on him as a "community representative." It's okay to not like AVers, but don't blame your problems on them when they're not the source. AV has been buffed over the last 2 years, while vehicles have been nerfed over the same time period. Going by that alone, yes, crying infantry is the problem. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:59:00 - [118] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: First off i have been playing since closed beta, If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy. and have done just about every role i could in this game. See above about piloting. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds. it take 3 seconds to lock One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done. bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, See above, stop lying. thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, See above, stop lying. the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage. i do not know how you fly That's because you're not a pilot. but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron Clearly not. that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. Swarms still annihilate shield ships. my python is more of a glass cannon It's far more glass than cannon. which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr. but at that point im already out of the hot zone. No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. See above You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference. Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles. but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV. I agree that people who camp roof tops suck [Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i] ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles. but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle. proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker Seems you're not a pilot at all. ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) See above-mentioned 400m swarms. but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds. until you can actually answer the question in this thread anything you say is null, you have yet to give a single example of how to improve vehicles all you have said is that AV is OP and it appears that's all you can do. Yet again, not accepting my answer because you have different plumbing. Just stop bringing it up already, because if I replied with a damn PhD level thesis, you still wouldn't accept it as a valid response. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 88	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:00:00 - [119] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: First off i have been playing since closed beta, If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy. and have done just about every role i could in this game. See above about piloting. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds. it take 3 seconds to lock One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done. bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, See above, stop lying. thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, See above, stop lying. the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage. i do not know how you fly That's because you're not a pilot. but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron Clearly not. that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. Swarms still annihilate shield ships. my python is more of a glass cannon It's far more glass than cannon. which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr. but at that point im already out of the hot zone. No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. See above You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference. Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles. but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV. I agree that people who camp roof tops suck [Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i] ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles. but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle. proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker Seems you're not a pilot at all. ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) See above-mentioned 400m swarms. but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds. until you can actually answer the question in this thread anything you say is null, you have yet to give a single example of how to improve vehicles all you have said is that AV is OP and it appears that's all you can do. Yeah you should soooooooooo be a lawyer, you'd be so awesome at that. Cuz you know you're so good at 'backing people into corners' and repeating the same BS questions over and over again and trying to make it seem like you know what you're talking about. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16511	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:00:00 - [120] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. Actually, what happened is that an AVer offered a rebuttal to your premise, than you offered a counter-argument while also claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). . You aren't evil? Much disappoint...... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.

Her Nibs G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 178	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:04:00 - [121] - Quote Black, I feel your pain, but check how many times swarms have been nerfed. I am fully proto Swams and much more. I don't use the Minmando, I use an Amarr Logi so I can carry my own hives, and proxies, and complex mods, kinkats etc. I hunt things that are red and fly or drive. Minmandos don't run so fast so if a volley of swarms comes after you.....run and avoid the area, unless of course it;s me....then maybe recall. Learn your colors...red means just run and avoid, yellow means recall. Just saying. 54m SP and I still love my swarms the best. OOPS, I'm sorry. Did I just blow up your Python
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 27	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:04:00 - [122] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. Actually, what happened is that an AVer offered a rebuttal to your premise, than you offered a counter-argument while also claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). Then vehicle Pilots (mainly Stupid Blueberry, Toolbar Zoobar, and Spkr) decided to begin flaming your thread. The only AVers I see here is me (who only made one slightly off-topic statement), Breakin Stuff (who made only one speculation), and Soraya Xel (who was abrasive, yet still constructive). It's okay to not like AVers, but don't blame your problems on them when they're not the source. Are you just completely stupid? all the AV people who have posted on this thread have just been complete asses because they think that AV should be a million times more powerfull than a tank and are trying to keep the game boring. They did not offer a rebuttal they basically were saying im stupid and im a biased tanker and saying i have just wasted my time because im completely wrong. The pilots who have commented here have not flamed up this thread it was the AVers because they are not willing to even contemplate my ideas and just shot everything every thing down and i do not ever saying that YOU did not know what it is like to be a pilot but then again you have lost all credibility with previous posts and i have been a pilot since the early stages of the closed beta so i think i know what i am talking about. And if you think Soraya was being constructive then you do not know the meaning of the word. Do you even have a brain or is there just a hampster on a hampster wheel up there either way you are possibly with the exception Soraya the dumbest person to post here. And soraya was the one who came in here and did not even consider one of my ideas. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16511	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:04:00 - [123] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Yeah you should soooooooooo be a lawyer, you'd be so awesome at that. Cuz you know you're so good at 'backing people into corners' and repeating the same BS questions over and over again and trying to make it seem like you know what you're talking about. Nah I'd actually like to see most tankers back their points up with numbers and stats. This anecdotal crap means jack all without proper forms of evidence to back up the assertions mades. E.G- See 400m Swarms in not an argument? What about 400m Swarms? Their lock on range, their travel distance, their DPS, their alpha, their reload, their lock on? Spkr if you want to talk TTK of the vehicle prove to these people that that 4 second TTK is currently in effect with calculations not assertions. Moreover if you don't like the 4 second TTK of Swarm Launchers how could you possibly in your good conscience advocate the 2-3 second TTK of Missile Launchers vs Armour Tanks? *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 27	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:06:00 - [124] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: Black, I feel your pain, but check how many times swarms have been nerfed. I am fully proto Swams and much more. I don't use the Minmando, I use an Amarr Logi so I can carry my own hives, and proxies, and complex mods, kinkats etc. I hunt things that are red and fly or drive. Minmandos don't run so fast so if a volley of swarms comes after you.....run and avoid the area, unless of course it;s me....then maybe recall. Learn your colors...red means just run and avoid, yellow means recall. Just saying. 54m SP and I still love my swarms the best. Seriously you think that all vehicles should have to run from swarms? YOU ARE A DUMBASS. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:07:00 - [125] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: Black, I feel your pain, but check how many times swarms have been nerfed. When have swarms ever been nerfed? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 240	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:08:00 - [126] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Don't worry man I'm pretty good at surviving. That's actually the easy part. Now the hard part is being of any real use on the battle field. that's nice then why the QQ? i dont QQ when i cant kill a tank or a DS/ADS or when a hvy in his tank drives up to me and blaps me and hops back in? wait does this count as QQ ?, i understand not having a use on the battle field it sucks but complain about AV isnt going to give you a use on the field. Infantry take the hack points. Infantry kill most clones. Infantry ultimately win the battle. What do vehicles do? Or better question what do you think vehicles should be doing? The LAV is spawned at the start as a mobility aid for heavies then forgotten about. The DS is spawned at the start of match, flies onto a tower then is also forgotten about. The ADS flies around a bit maybe farms some installations, shoots maybe 5 or 6 infantry then gets shot at by swarms then has to fly away possibly for the rest of the match. The HAV cowers in its redline and waits to see if an enemy calls in a HAV of their own so that they actually have something to shoot at. I could try killing some infantry with a large blaster but that thing is so ineffective at killing stuff now what's the point. And so as you can see all the serious vehicles are irrelevant. They can't even hold their own ground. if thats the issue you have finding a role to perform then what does that have to do with AV being "OP" yes i agree there need to be more for vehicles to do but blaming that AV is "OP" isnt going to solve it. Ok lets say AV isnt a issue what then? what would be a acceptable amount of time? people? before you get destroyed? should you be allowed to even be destroyed? its a tricky thing to do finding something for every role to do, some roles are easier than others. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2732	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:09:00 - [127] - Quote True Adamance wrote: E.G- See 400m Swarms in not an argument? What about 400m Swarms? Their lock on range, their travel distance, their DPS, their alpha, their reload, their lock on? Here you go I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 241	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:10:00 - [128] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Her Nibs wrote: Black, I feel your pain, but check how many times swarms have been nerfed. When have swarms ever been nerfed? clip reduced from 4 to 3, 6 missiles to 4 ( which is stupid since you cant tell what level of swarm it is), damage reduction( altough not much still), lock on range 400m- 175m ( which i agree is a good thing). Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 241	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:17:00 - [129] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: wrong i have seen 4 tanks and 3 ADS in a match do you even pilot? And I thought I was bad at math. 4 + 3 = 7 ? wernt you the one that said the max vehicle was ummm 7 and that the RDV counted towards the max? umm from what you said page 4 post #70 "Vehicles are limited, the number is at 7. If you play game, and if you use vehicles, you'd know that. Oh, and the Bolas counts towards the 7. So no, we can't have 7 vehicles coming in at the same time." to me that mean you cannot have more than 7 vehicles out and that the RDV counts as one, OR did you mean 7 people cannot call their vehicles in at the same time? Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 241	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:19:00 - [130] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. Actually, what happened is that an AVer offered a rebuttal to your premise, than you offered a counter-argument while also claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). Then vehicle Pilots (mainly Stupid Blueberry, Toolbar Zoobar, and Spkr) decided to begin flaming your thread. The only AVers I see here is me (who only made one slightly off-topic statement), Breakin Stuff (who made only one speculation), and Soraya Xel (who was abrasive, yet still constructive). It's okay to not like AVers, but don't blame your problems on them when they're not the source. im not included in team AV? Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver

Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 88	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:20:00 - [131] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Don't worry man I'm pretty good at surviving. That's actually the easy part. Now the hard part is being of any real use on the battle field. that's nice then why the QQ? i dont QQ when i cant kill a tank or a DS/ADS or when a hvy in his tank drives up to me and blaps me and hops back in? wait does this count as QQ ?, i understand not having a use on the battle field it sucks but complain about AV isnt going to give you a use on the field. Infantry take the hack points. Infantry kill most clones. Infantry ultimately win the battle. What do vehicles do? Or better question what do you think vehicles should be doing? The LAV is spawned at the start as a mobility aid for heavies then forgotten about. The DS is spawned at the start of match, flies onto a tower then is also forgotten about. The ADS flies around a bit maybe farms some installations, shoots maybe 5 or 6 infantry then gets shot at by swarms then has to fly away possibly for the rest of the match. The HAV cowers in its redline and waits to see if an enemy calls in a HAV of their own so that they actually have something to shoot at. I could try killing some infantry with a large blaster but that thing is so ineffective at killing stuff now what's the point. And so as you can see all the serious vehicles are irrelevant. They can't even hold their own ground. if thats the issue you have finding a role to perform then what does that have to do with AV being "OP" yes i agree there need to be more for vehicles to do but blaming that AV is "OP" isnt going to solve it. Ok lets say AV isnt a issue what then? what would be a acceptable amount of time? people? before you get destroyed? should you be allowed to even be destroyed? its a tricky thing to do finding something for every role to do, some roles are easier than others. My gunnlogi doesn't mind AV. Im fine with that. Actually heres a list: Buff armor peppers by 15% Reduce active vehicle module (hardeners) recharge by 20% Reduce after-burner and fuel injector recharge by 50% Some lock on warnings for swarms. My incubus should have the capacity to brawl with at the very least one swarm launcher user. (so the 3rd volley. Either that goes or I get an ECM module) The tier 2 HAVs better be real tough. skirmish 1.0 Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16511	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:22:00 - [132] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: E.G- See 400m Swarms in not an argument? What about 400m Swarms? Their lock on range, their travel distance, their DPS, their alpha, their reload, their lock on? Here you go That's all you need to say. Yes in early Uprising Swarms could from a very large number of position on each map deny any and all vehicles a place on the field. However I don't think such is the case any longer. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 241	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:25:00 - [133] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: First off i have been playing since closed beta, If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy. and have done just about every role i could in this game. See above about piloting. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds. it take 3 seconds to lock One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done. bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, See above, stop lying. thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, See above, stop lying. the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage. i do not know how you fly That's because you're not a pilot. but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron Clearly not. that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. Swarms still annihilate shield ships. my python is more of a glass cannon It's far more glass than cannon. which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr. but at that point im already out of the hot zone. No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. See above You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference. Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles. but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV. I agree that people who camp roof tops suck [Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i] ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles. but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle. proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker Seems you're not a pilot at all. ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) See above-mentioned 400m swarms. but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds. until you can actually answer the question in this thread anything you say is null, you have yet to give a single example of how to improve vehicles all you have said is that AV is OP and it appears that's all you can do. Yeah you should soooooooooo be a lawyer, you'd be so awesome at that. Cuz you know you're so good at 'backing people into corners' and repeating the same BS questions over and over again and trying to make it seem like you know what you're talking about. well if he actually answered the question which he never did i can ask you the same thats in the thread. i would like to know maybe something can finally be done instead of QQ AV or QQ tanks/ADS Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 88	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:30:00 - [134] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: First off i have been playing since closed beta, If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy. and have done just about every role i could in this game. See above about piloting. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds. it take 3 seconds to lock One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done. bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, See above, stop lying. thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, See above, stop lying. the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage. i do not know how you fly That's because you're not a pilot. but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron Clearly not. that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. Swarms still annihilate shield ships. my python is more of a glass cannon It's far more glass than cannon. which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr. but at that point im already out of the hot zone. No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. See above You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference. Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles. but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV. I agree that people who camp roof tops suck [Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i] ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles. but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle. proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker Seems you're not a pilot at all. ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) See above-mentioned 400m swarms. but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds. until you can actually answer the question in this thread anything you say is null, you have yet to give a single example of how to improve vehicles all you have said is that AV is OP and it appears that's all you can do. Yeah you should soooooooooo be a lawyer, you'd be so awesome at that. Cuz you know you're so good at 'backing people into corners' and repeating the same BS questions over and over again and trying to make it seem like you know what you're talking about. well if he actually answered the question which he never did i can ask you the same thats in the thread. i would like to know maybe something can finally be done instead of QQ AV or QQ tanks/ADS Give me a capacitor which powers both guns and modules. Let my modules be active indefinitely thus giving me the ability to manage them with more depth. Then it becomes a mini game of balancing offence v. defence. That's what I really want. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16512	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:36:00 - [135] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: well if he actually answered the question which he never did i can ask you the same thats in the thread. i would like to know maybe something can finally be done instead of QQ AV or QQ tanks/ADS Give me a capacitor which powers both guns and modules. Let my modules be active indefinitely thus giving me the ability to manage them with more depth. Then it becomes a mini game of balancing offence v. defence. That's what I really want.[/quote] You have to be very aware that you can't easily make a cap stable fit in EVE with Active Modules. Especially not the more powerful ones and the more useful ones that we currently take for granted. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1765	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:42:00 - [136] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: First off i have been playing since closed beta, If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy. and have done just about every role i could in this game. See above about piloting. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds. it take 3 seconds to lock One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done. bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, See above, stop lying. thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, See above, stop lying. the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage. i do not know how you fly That's because you're not a pilot. but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron Clearly not. that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. Swarms still annihilate shield ships. my python is more of a glass cannon It's far more glass than cannon. which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr. but at that point im already out of the hot zone. No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. See above You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference. Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles. but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV. I agree that people who camp roof tops suck [Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i] ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles. but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle. proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker Seems you're not a pilot at all. ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) See above-mentioned 400m swarms. but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds. until you can actually answer the question in this thread anything you say is null, you have yet to give a single example of how to improve vehicles all you have said is that AV is OP and it appears that's all you can do. Yeah you should soooooooooo be a lawyer, you'd be so awesome at that. Cuz you know you're so good at 'backing people into corners' and repeating the same BS questions over and over again and trying to make it seem like you know what you're talking about. well that happens when you summon Spkr4theDead ... now you are all doomed beside that he is right and the majority answering with their "forum wisdom" have no clue what is going on in the game right now in regards of vehicles. they just think that because that single tank they maybe encountered which landed a lucky hit and killed them while they were scrubbing around in their mlt suit now all vehicles must be OP. I tell you something, I havent been killed by a vehicle for ages...I have been killed by a heavy jumping out of a HAVs and dropships plenty of times though, that should tell you something.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 89	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:44:00 - [137] - Quote True Adamance wrote: [quote=Toobar Zoobar] You have to be very aware that you can't easily make a cap stable fit in EVE with Active Modules. Especially not the more powerful ones and the more useful ones that we currently take for granted. For starters I didn't say anything about being cap stable. So what if it isn't cap stable, as long as I get more time with my hardeners on. More time with my afterburners on. I would like to be rewarded for being efficient with my guns and modules for once. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6344	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:44:00 - [138] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Are you just completely stupid? all the AV people who have posted on this thread have just been complete asses because they think that AV should be a million times more powerfull than a... I lost interest here. Quit assuming you can read my mind. You can't and you're wrong, and historically HAV drivers can't read because they see someone who's picked up an AV weapon once and immediately conclude that YOU'RE TRYING TO RUIN MY PLAYSTYLE! The sheer idiocy and tinfoil I see running RAMPANT in this thread is pure magic, to the point where I'm beginning to think that someone who actually despises HAVs and wants them run out of existence looked at the HAV thread, noted that progress is being made and had a goddamn panic attack thinking "If they make progress and come to a consensus I'll have to deal with HAVs pissing me off again! How can I make all vehicle drivers look like complete douches so they never get anything good again?" Just when we're looking at what, three potentially viable proposals intended to make Vehicles not a colossal turd in the works, and then THIS crap comes up. It's this kind of crap that distracts from fixing the actual problem, and gets people rabid, like idiots, and then causes them to run straight into places where things are being done to crap them from existence. Quit acting like a child. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 242	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:47:00 - [139] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Don't worry man I'm pretty good at surviving. That's actually the easy part. Now the hard part is being of any real use on the battle field. that's nice then why the QQ? i dont QQ when i cant kill a tank or a DS/ADS or when a hvy in his tank drives up to me and blaps me and hops back in? wait does this count as QQ ?, i understand not having a use on the battle field it sucks but complain about AV isnt going to give you a use on the field. Infantry take the hack points. Infantry kill most clones. Infantry ultimately win the battle. What do vehicles do? Or better question what do you think vehicles should be doing? The LAV is spawned at the start as a mobility aid for heavies then forgotten about. The DS is spawned at the start of match, flies onto a tower then is also forgotten about. The ADS flies around a bit maybe farms some installations, shoots maybe 5 or 6 infantry then gets shot at by swarms then has to fly away possibly for the rest of the match. The HAV cowers in its redline and waits to see if an enemy calls in a HAV of their own so that they actually have something to shoot at. I could try killing some infantry with a large blaster but that thing is so ineffective at killing stuff now what's the point. And so as you can see all the serious vehicles are irrelevant. They can't even hold their own ground. if thats the issue you have finding a role to perform then what does that have to do with AV being "OP" yes i agree there need to be more for vehicles to do but blaming that AV is "OP" isnt going to solve it. Ok lets say AV isnt a issue what then? what would be a acceptable amount of time? people? before you get destroyed? should you be allowed to even be destroyed? its a tricky thing to do finding something for every role to do, some roles are easier than others. My gunnlogi doesn't mind AV. Im fine with that. Actually heres a list: Buff armor peppers by 15% Reduce active vehicle module (hardeners) recharge by 20% Reduce after-burner and fuel injector recharge by 50% Some lock on warnings for swarms. My incubus should have the capacity to brawl with at the very least one swarm launcher user. (so the 3rd volley. Either that goes or I get an ECM module) The tier 2 HAVs better be real tough. skirmish 1.0 this i can respond to YOU actually gave a answer something that i can respond to and discuss with i can agree that armor reppers do need a slight buff 10-15% to start out with and then go from there i cannot really say anything on hardners because i dont use them but ill take your advice on that the after burner i feel is fine the basic recharges quick enough for me and i feel that any quicker would promote abuse and dependency on it i would like to see some sort of lock on warning some sort of hud indicator like little triangles on the edge of the screen showing what direction they are coming from and that change colors from green (far) fades to yellow (closer ) fades to red ( about 60m close) the issue i have with having the incubus a brawler is that its a armored going against a AV thats primarily made to deal with armor as opposed to having a shielded vehicle go against a primary armor damaging weapon. i think we should wait for the new mods and tanks to come out but yes they should be better than the STD we have now skirm 1.0 was fun, more so what about skirm 1.0? Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 89	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:48:00 - [140] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Are you just completely stupid? all the AV people who have posted on this thread have just been complete asses because they think that AV should be a million times more powerfull than a... I lost interest here. Quit assuming you can read my mind. You can't and you're wrong, and historically HAV drivers can't read because they see someone who's picked up an AV weapon once and immediately conclude that YOU'RE TRYING TO RUIN MY PLAYSTYLE! The sheer idiocy and tinfoil I see running RAMPANT in this thread is pure magic, to the point where I'm beginning to think that someone who actually despises HAVs and wants them run out of existence looked at the HAV thread, noted that progress is being made and had a goddamn panic attack thinking "If they make progress and come to a consensus I'll have to deal with HAVs pissing me off again! How can I make all vehicle drivers look like complete douches so they never get anything good again?" Just when we're looking at what, three potentially viable proposals intended to make Vehicles not a colossal turd in the works, and then THIS crap comes up. It's this kind of crap that distracts from fixing the actual problem, and gets people rabid, like idiots, and then causes them to run straight into places where things are being done to crap them from existence. Quit acting like a child. I think he's just irritated that some people on the other side weren't all that willing to be constructive. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.

Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 242	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:52:00 - [141] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Give me a capacitor which powers both guns and modules. Let my modules be active indefinitely thus giving me the ability to manage them with more depth. Then it becomes a mini game of balancing offence v. defence. That's what I really want.[/quote] that would be interesting, it would be like the olde days when you tactfully had to manage the reppers, hardners, and damage control modules as well as drive and gun, that would be one aspect i would enjoy to see come back Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6345	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:54:00 - [142] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: and laughing at the very concept that I would EVER agree that any win butan in my possession would be a good thing for this game. 400m max range swarms = I-win button. I never use swarms. Your argument is irrelevant in that context. I looked at the numbers. Current swarms are actually appropriate DPS numbers-wise to tackle Chromosome HAVs. that's why I use the current stats in my theorycrafting tab for recommended changes. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16513	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:55:00 - [143] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: and laughing at the very concept that I would EVER agree that any win butan in my possession would be a good thing for this game. 400m max range swarms = I-win button. I never use swarms. Your argument is irrelevant in that context. I looked at the numbers. Current swarms are actually appropriate DPS numbers-wise to tackle Chromosome HAVs. that's why I use the current stats in my theorycrafting tab for recommended changes. I like them but I'm wondering how you came by the numbers for the hulls. Again specifically where you derived the numbers from. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6345	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:00:00 - [144] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: AV has been buffed over the last 2 years, while vehicles have been nerfed over the same time period. Going by that alone, yes, crying infantry is the problem. Forge Guns over the last two years: Charge time increased by 20%, nerf to Forge gun RoF by 20% Slight damage reduction to forge guns from chromosome, example: IAFG damage reduced from 1512 to 1500. Impact: negligible. Heavy Damage mods reduced from 10% to 5% resulting in an average loss of 15% damage from chromosome. Forge gun Proficiency Damage bonus moved to armor only Range reduced from 400 to 320 Stacking penalties introduced, taking the three 5% damage mods and making them approximately 12% increase to damage. AV has been buffed constantly over the last two years: LOLwut? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6345	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:03:00 - [145] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: and laughing at the very concept that I would EVER agree that any win butan in my possession would be a good thing for this game. 400m max range swarms = I-win button. I never use swarms. Your argument is irrelevant in that context. I looked at the numbers. Current swarms are actually appropriate DPS numbers-wise to tackle Chromosome HAVs. that's why I use the current stats in my theorycrafting tab for recommended changes. I like them but I'm wondering how you came by the numbers for the hulls. Again specifically where you derived the numbers from. I found a thread where someone had helpfully collected all of the vehicle statistics during the chromosome build in closed beta. I've been resurrecting them By the way, I need dropship pilot input DESPERATELY. Chrome AV was death on a cracker to dropships. My proposed changes in the theorycrafting tab for AV would be viable versus chrome vehicles, but I'm iffy vs. current ADS. the chrome dropship took three shots (assuming I missed a shot) and I'm looking for suggestions on where to propose numbers buffs for them to make them less squishy. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16513	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:09:00 - [146] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: and laughing at the very concept that I would EVER agree that any win butan in my possession would be a good thing for this game. 400m max range swarms = I-win button. I never use swarms. Your argument is irrelevant in that context. I looked at the numbers. Current swarms are actually appropriate DPS numbers-wise to tackle Chromosome HAVs. that's why I use the current stats in my theorycrafting tab for recommended changes. I like them but I'm wondering how you came by the numbers for the hulls. Again specifically where you derived the numbers from. I found a thread where someone had helpfully collected all of the vehicle statistics during the chromosome build in closed beta. I've been resurrecting them By the way, I need dropship pilot input DESPERATELY. Chrome AV was death on a cracker to dropships. My proposed changes in the theorycrafting tab for AV would be viable versus chrome vehicles, but I'm iffy vs. current ADS. the chrome dropship took three shots (assuming I missed a shot) and I'm looking for suggestions on where to propose numbers buffs for them to make them less squishy. Are you sure those were the values? I mean they must have changed in the Uprising build somehow. I know for a fact I had the most powerful plates and full skills and my tanks standard Armour HP values were 6375 (aka the standard combat Madrugar) EDIT- Proceeds to stick foot in mouth when he realises 2900 1.25 = 3625......... which is the armour value I am thinking of. Then proceeds to realise I'd inverted the 3 and 7 in the only maddy armour values....... "He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6346	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:12:00 - [147] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I mean they must have changed in the Uprising build somehow. this. Chrome tanks had actual SKILL BONUSES! They behaved in relation to skills similarly to dropsuits even if they didn't behave similarly on the battlefield. My numbers are predicated on the vehicle skill tree being FULLY re-implemented. Otherwise all vehicles will be is suicide sled paper tigers that will get farmed. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16513	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:17:00 - [148] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: I mean they must have changed in the Uprising build somehow. this. Chrome tanks had actual SKILL BONUSES! They behaved in relation to skills similarly to dropsuits even if they didn't behave similarly on the battlefield. My numbers are predicated on the vehicle skill tree being FULLY re-implemented. Otherwise all vehicles will be is suicide sled paper tigers that will get farmed. Early Uprising had them as well. Just me being a dunce. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 79	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:26:00 - [149] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Her Nibs wrote: Black, I feel your pain, but check how many times swarms have been nerfed. I am fully proto Swams and much more. I don't use the Minmando, I use an Amarr Logi so I can carry my own hives, and proxies, and complex mods, kinkats etc. I hunt things that are red and fly or drive. Minmandos don't run so fast so if a volley of swarms comes after you.....run and avoid the area, unless of course it;s me....then maybe recall. Learn your colors...red means just run and avoid, yellow means recall. Just saying. 54m SP and I still love my swarms the best. Seriously you think that all vehicles should have to run from swarms? YOU ARE A DUMBASS. Continuing to call people "idiot" and "dumbass" is never going to get ANYONE to listen to your ideas. Vehicles could probably get a buff for survivability especially the ADS since its rof was nerfed A cloak for an ADS was suggested a while back as well as a warning system when swarms were launched. Both good ideas if there is also a Dumbfire option for swarms. See? So there is balance. But you open up with Av'ers should run for the hills when vehicles show up Whether you realize it or not you are suggesting that the game is over the moment your super killjoy godmode tank has arrived. If you can't be killed by AV then what is the point of continuing the match? If matches were to continue in this manner there would be no fun factor or reason to play. As you point out, I do have to run to the supply depot to get my av fit to fight you. So I retreat, put on a suit dedicated to kill but most likely drive you away and the whole time I am vulnerable to you and your whole team that I can't attack because you know - swarms - But instead by your logic I should just forget all that and let you kill me, right?
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 717	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:33:00 - [150] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: So I take out the tank/Ads but the driver jumps out in full slayer proto gear against my AV fit, LEGIT? What good will jumping out trying to kill you do when swarms have a max range of 400m? Hapens to me al to often. Engage on your terms, rather than running out into the open. Worst are tankers in heavy fittes that insta jumps out then kill any av that get close then insta pop in and dive of into the sunset We had to deal with swarms that were invisible 90% of the time, for a long time. Oh and every now and then I find my self in combat against a tank/ads that is almost impossible to kill solo So go find cover. Again you show that you are a big troll. You always leave out stuff and edit when you don't find a statement you don't like. pointless to have a argument with some one like that. Again I leave the last word to you troll War never changes

Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1458	Posted - 2015.01.12 22:00:00 - [151] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Atiim wrote: This post makes me want to cry. Not because it's probably going to give me cancer, but because I already promised not to troll Pilots until tomorrow. Why couldn't you have posted it then? So you are one of these biased AV people who have no understanding of what it is like to be a pilot then well then i say to you that people like you are the reason why this game is failing to bring in new players Yeah, 1.7 was a great time for new players, I remember all the posts and in game comments about how they loved this game because of the tanks and ADS. Because, that's why.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1681	Posted - 2015.01.12 22:21:00 - [152] - Quote Don't forget the scouts , they were a big hit as well as the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 32	Posted - 2015.01.12 22:25:00 - [153] - Quote I'm posting this first before i actually reply. In all bad, there is good. In all good, there is bad. Basically i am saying, regardless of how foolish an idea is or sound, a few things in the idea is not a bad thing. Please, professional at most; respectful at least. The conflict between AV vs Vehicles is becoming stupid and losing its true purpose: balance. Can we scrap our egos' for the better of the Dust community? I'm tired of watching people acting like they are absolute, perfect, and most intelligent. Thank you.
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 544	Posted - 2015.01.12 22:48:00 - [154] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 those must be your favorited videos i like how you only put one vehicle vid up too you might be new here, as you think 60-4 for infantry is not rare, but some of us have been here to see vehicles do the same sht. just a few months ago actually, esp, the ADS.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6354	Posted - 2015.01.12 22:55:00 - [155] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Can we scrap our egos' for the better of the Dust community? I'm tired of watching people acting like they are absolute, perfect, and most intelligent. Thank you. fortunately I don't care if I'm the most intelligent or correct. I just call it as I see it. and if anyone calls me perfect it's time to up the meds. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1523	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:04:00 - [156] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. If that is the case you must be the most brain dead AV'er in the history of this game. It costs me 70k isk worth of suit to have a crazy vehicle killing suit. Min Commando ADV- -Proto Swarms -Rs-32 -Dmg mods -Kin Cats/armor repairs/armor plates -Nanohive. You do not have to use a Proto fitted everything to kill a Vehicle. You are essentially adding in the cost of Proto Equipment. That like fully kitting out a Amarr Logi suit and putting a swarm on it and say my "AV" fit cost me 200k. You surely can't be using all the equipment to benefit in an AV role. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:06:00 - [157] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Can we scrap our egos' for the better of the Dust community? I'm tired of watching people acting like they are absolute, perfect, and most intelligent. Thank you. fortunately I don't care if I'm the most intelligent or correct. I just call it as I see it. and if anyone calls me perfect it's time to up the meds. I don't name names but, you are quite reasonable. I only want more reason for more people... And less anarchy. (Still analyzing the forum)
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 91	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:17:00 - [158] - Quote .......................this game should be more like EVE. Do you agree with that? In EVE there is no lobby shooter mechanic. You aren't throw into a group of random players in what feels like a closed confined area. It's not like you are thrown into a confined battle arena. Where noobs in rookie ships have to fight vets in battleships. That's actually this games big flaw. There simply isn't enough room for different players with different play styles to have the freedom to enjoy what they like doing. Pubs don't allow for enough choice. We can't even choose the map. Personally I just want my vehicles to have real purpose. They don't atm. I wouldn't care if i'm not killing infantry. And that's the problem the only current way a vehicle can influence a team winning or losing a match is if they kill infantry. And some infantry don't enjoy having to deal with vehicles. Thus we can all this tension in the community. If this game were more like EVE... Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1482	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:21:00 - [159] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: I'm posting this first before i actually reply. In all bad, there is good. In all good, there is bad. Basically i am saying, regardless of how foolish an idea is or sound, a few things in the idea is not a bad thing. Please, professional at most; respectful at least. The conflict between AV vs Vehicles is becoming stupid and losing its true purpose: balance. Can we scrap our egos' for the better of the Dust community? I'm tired of watching people acting like they are absolute, perfect, and most intelligent. Thank you. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 34	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:35:00 - [160] - Quote I realize that calling people idiots and dumbasses is possibly a over reaction but when people come into this thread looking for a fight and not being open minded and do not even bother to comment on the rest of the ideas and recommendations and just insult and shot down any ideas and for some people (i wont name them) use these threads as just a way to argue with the exact same people and that is why the developers will not even bother looking at these threads because all they can expect is bickering and nothing constructive at all and i just get frustrated at people who have just come in looking to stir up a storm and not contribute any thing of worth to the topic. Not to mention i was not biased in the initial post and was not calling for a nerf to AV but a buff to vehicles so that they are of some worth a team and can contribute to attaining victory. So all of the people who just came onto this thread and maybe read the first paragraph then just started pointlessly arguing the same case that they have argued a thousand times before. Do you all not realize that this is pointless? that all you could achieve is winning a pointless argument! My proposals were just to make this game fun everyone and add a bit of depth to it. I really do not know why half the people who post here just want a completely one sided fight. There are actually so few people playing the game know i would struggle to get a pub match within 5 minutes. And my point here a huge amount of players have stopped playing the game because vehicles are just not fun. So all of you who post regularly on these forums who are not really arguing a point anymore at this point it feels like you are just doing it for the sake of. Because you have posted your opinions on many different threads in the past you have nothing left to argue so just stop so that these forums might actually be of some use to the developers. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16529	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:38:00 - [161] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: .......................this game should be more like EVE. Do you agree with that? In EVE there is no lobby shooter mechanic. You aren't throw into a group of random players in what feels like a closed confined area. It's not like you are thrown into a confined battle arena. Where noobs in rookie ships have to fight vets in battleships. That's actually this games big flaw. There simply isn't enough room for different players with different play styles to have the freedom to enjoy what they like doing. Pubs don't allow for enough choice. We can't even choose the map. Personally I just want my vehicles to have real purpose. They don't atm. I wouldn't care if i'm not killing infantry. And that's the problem the only current way a vehicle can influence a team winning or losing a match is if they kill infantry. And some infantry don't enjoy having to deal with vehicles. Thus we can all this tension in the community. If this game were more like EVE... Players would cry too much. "Boo hoo they have 20+ Tanks and Logi Support" "Boo hoo they attacked outside of my Timer" "Boo hoo they ganked me in High Sec. Is nowhere safe?" *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6356	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:39:00 - [162] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: I realize that calling people idiots and dumbasses is possibly a over reaction but when people come into this thread looking for a fight and not being open minded and do not even bother to comment on the rest of the ideas and recommendations and just insult and shot down any ideas and for some people (i wont name them) use these threads as just a way to argue with the exact same people and that is why the developers will not even bother looking at these threads because all they can expect is bickering and nothing constructive at all and i just get frustrated at people who have just come in looking to stir up a storm and not contribute any thing of worth to the topic. Not to mention i was not biased in the initial post and was not calling for a nerf to AV but a buff to vehicles so that they are of some worth a team and can contribute to attaining victory. So all of the people who just came onto this thread and maybe read the first paragraph then just started pointlessly arguing the same case that they have argued a thousand times before. Do you all not realize that this is pointless? that all you could achieve is winning a pointless argument! My proposals were just to make this game fun everyone and add a bit of depth to it. I really do not know why half the people who post here just want a completely one sided fight. There are actually so few people playing the game know i would struggle to get a pub match within 5 minutes. And my point here a huge amount of players have stopped playing the game because vehicles are just not fun. So all of you who post regularly on these forums who are not really arguing a point anymore at this point it feels like you are just doing it for the sake of. Because you have posted your opinions on many different threads in the past you have nothing left to argue so just stop so that these forums might actually be of some use to the developers. My problem is the premise of your thread ignores the need for a balance point between "I am an unholy killing machine" and "these guys are actually rigged to rip my balls off, I should be cautious and smart." EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 34	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:46:00 - [163] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: I realize that calling people idiots and dumbasses is possibly a over reaction but when people come into this thread looking for a fight and not being open minded and do not even bother to comment on the rest of the ideas and recommendations and just insult and shot down any ideas and for some people (i wont name them) use these threads as just a way to argue with the exact same people and that is why the developers will not even bother looking at these threads because all they can expect is bickering and nothing constructive at all and i just get frustrated at people who have just come in looking to stir up a storm and not contribute any thing of worth to the topic. Not to mention i was not biased in the initial post and was not calling for a nerf to AV but a buff to vehicles so that they are of some worth a team and can contribute to attaining victory. So all of the people who just came onto this thread and maybe read the first paragraph then just started pointlessly arguing the same case that they have argued a thousand times before. Do you all not realize that this is pointless? that all you could achieve is winning a pointless argument! My proposals were just to make this game fun everyone and add a bit of depth to it. I really do not know why half the people who post here just want a completely one sided fight. There are actually so few people playing the game know i would struggle to get a pub match within 5 minutes. And my point here a huge amount of players have stopped playing the game because vehicles are just not fun. So all of you who post regularly on these forums who are not really arguing a point anymore at this point it feels like you are just doing it for the sake of. Because you have posted your opinions on many different threads in the past you have nothing left to argue so just stop so that these forums might actually be of some use to the developers. My problem is the premise of your thread ignores the need for a balance point between "I am an unholy killing machine" and "these guys are actually rigged to rip my balls off, I should be cautious and smart." The fact is that i do not necessarily want killing machines but i also should not have to run away at the first sight of AV the whole point of a tank is to support infantry and suppress the enemy but HAVs are at the moment useless i am more likely to get a kill with a 20gj ion cannon than a 80gj ion cannon and more likely to tank av in a saga 2 because of the special active module it has i want a balance between AV and vehicles but there just is not. PS i am not going to bother to post on this thread again because it served no purpose as soon as the first comment was posted. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 91	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:53:00 - [164] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: .......................this game should be more like EVE. Do you agree with that? In EVE there is no lobby shooter mechanic. You aren't throw into a group of random players in what feels like a closed confined area. It's not like you are thrown into a confined battle arena. Where noobs in rookie ships have to fight vets in battleships. That's actually this games big flaw. There simply isn't enough room for different players with different play styles to have the freedom to enjoy what they like doing. Pubs don't allow for enough choice. We can't even choose the map. Personally I just want my vehicles to have real purpose. They don't atm. I wouldn't care if i'm not killing infantry. And that's the problem the only current way a vehicle can influence a team winning or losing a match is if they kill infantry. And some infantry don't enjoy having to deal with vehicles. Thus we can all this tension in the community. If this game were more like EVE... Players would cry too much. "Boo hoo they have 20+ Tanks and Logi Support" "Boo hoo they attacked outside of my Timer" "Boo hoo they ganked me in High Sec. Is nowhere safe?" Eeeeeehh... no. I did not say I want eve on the ground as it seems that is how you are interpreting it. I'm not suggesting a sandbox. Although that's what legion is going to be anyway and it really is what I actually want deep down so I guess let them whine all the like it ain't gonna make much of a difference. I want an alternative to matchmaking. I guess I want better planetary interaction that's more easily accessible and perhaps where vehicles could be far more useful. Now i'm not saying PC necessary. I'm just talking exploration mainly. Possibly some raiding. Some PvE questing. You can have your domination and ambush free of vehicles I don't care. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
H0riz0n Unlimit Dead Man's Game 314	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:57:00 - [165] - Quote At the end of all, when you are quite relaxed after you killed a militia swarm he eill sppear behind you screaming allah akbar if you are in a tank or simply ramming your Ads with a militia gorgon...thats amazing The KTM DuKe lives here, send a message after the "beep".One of the few vehiculist remained in dust 514
Duke Noobiam The Dukes of Death 338	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:28:00 - [166] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 The problem is not that a tanker goes 30-0. No one is saying Duna has a 50-1 kdr therefore nerf tanks. The problem is that almost all tankers can go 30-0. As a group vehicle users have the highest kdr by far aside from snipers. This is why when tankers come here and cry they get no sympathy.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16530	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:34:00 - [167] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Ld Collins wrote: The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 The problem is not that a tanker goes 30-0. No one is saying Duna has a 50-1 kdr therefore nerf tanks. The problem is that almost all tankers can go 30-0. As a group vehicle users have the highest kdr by far aside from snipers. This is why when tankers come here and cry they get no sympathy. But tankers do not got 30/0 at the moment. Haven't seen someone/anyone do that since 1.7 when Triple Rep Maddies were the bane of this game. Even before that I can't remember ever seeing anyone besides myself barring maybe Lorhak or Jason Pearson who ever scored more than 25 kills a match in a tank. Chromosome was a different story though. Most of the community did not even have the SP for AV. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 34	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:10:00 - [168] - Quote I am replying in BOLD print. There are good ideas and points made in the OP. I only fly a dropship (my only vehicle) so i am not 100% reliable; however, i somewhat understand the point that's being portrayed. Vodar 540 wrote: I am one of many vehicle pilots in this game who has kept their silence on this topic for a very long time now. Fully understandable, i am still silent but i'm preparing for a topic post in about a week or so. I have finally decided to speak up... my point is that it should not even be conceivable for a SOLE minmando to take down a ADS (with relative ease). I agree here since a flyby will result in the first volley surely striking. After the increased damage resulting from the +2% damage per level, the possibility of earning damage points is now greater. And now for tanks vs AV ...incredibly boring as far as modules and capabilities are concerned... no vehicle diversity, one is capable of knowing the enemy's build just by the hp's (Python 2555 is the most used python build i've seen). ACTIVE modules break this rule nevertheless They were planning to have a much more EVE like modules and ideas that were amazing and would add huge variety of possible fittings... they will have to run from AV which should not be the case. we all agree being able to challenge a tank face to face is absurd. Abusing the environment should be the "right step forward" Tanks in this game do not bring the fear factor that they should... in dust the mentality for seeing a Ion cannon Madrugar is "okay where is the closest supply depot so i can break out the the swarms and take this guy down completely on my own" psychology is the main factor. Being able to challenge a vehicle face to face doesn't seem correct however it gives the challenger a sense of power, so it will continue and/or get worse (id est: Chases you all match in a jeep till one dies, his allies get dragged into the fray and then the feeling of "OP" or "Unfair" is the result.) . the Madrugar needs a () buff because they are just a farce and secondly this should not be the reaction people should have... i agree. Rather than nerfing the shield vehicles (As nerfing the shield vehicles will offset the plasma cannon or flux, resulting in a chain nerf of AV potential) give armor vehicles a slight buff in ahp, ahp/s, or shield recharge delay. the form of skirmish should be brought back where there is a attacking and defending and only one MCC trying to get across the battlefield without dying and the attacking team has to shut down the null cannons to allow the MCC to survive. new game mode idea... Go into details please? But this was not only a better game mode but also gave vehicles a purpose in the game where a group of tanks could bombard a Null cannon and eventually destroy it . destroy, rebuild, change damage types.... These kind of sound good for interactive gameplay Recommendations add a couple of (vehicle) orientated maps. DEFINITELY needed. A hybrid map would be the epitome of map design. - Increase the ability for tanks to withstand constant bombardment from average AV. face to face fearless = average i believe. - Remodel the game modes to make vehicles viable large maps/multi level maps - Reintroduce weapon variations for both small and large turrets - Reintroduce Marauder HAVs, Logi DS and LAV - Reintroduce the variety off modules that used to be in the game and add some new ones. - New vehicle orientated maps with wide open expanses and no buildings where vehicle transport is needed to achieve (easier) victory - ... safely deploy vehicles and remove the chance of an DS tapping a RDV and killing it. - Replace the supply depots so that there is in every game a reachable supply depot for tanks. ...in a game yesterday where the enemy team just sat on top of a building with AV and just stayed there for the entire game and never even tried to take the objective... Trust me, i know... I made a purpose built dropship to keep them distracted so my team/squad has an easier capture and defend time. This game has more potential then all other FPS games on the market and if the connection with EVE is utilized properly it could be un-matched in the gaming world. yes. Definitely. Hope is what keeps me dust'in "in all bad, there is good. In all good, there is bad" Let us work together, for both AV and Vehicles.
xavier zor Rogue Instincts 394	Posted - 2015.01.13 01:48:00 - [169] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. you should. A tank is a tank. A mercenary is a mercenary. Your view is so one-minded and skewed, just express your hate for tanks some other way. A single-repped madrugar should be able to withstand a constant swarmer well...i have nothing to say
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game RUST415 1631	Posted - 2015.01.13 02:11:00 - [170] - Quote Oh boy this thread. At least its getting constructive-ish towards this point. The utter crap bickering at the start made this quite the read. I may post my thoughts later on, as there is one factor a lot of the ranters (especially) are missing out. "Why build ontop of foundations that aren't solid?" HRI -> TUL -> FC -> ML -> TLoD -> RE -> DMG Pilot & Assault.

Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 1503	Posted - 2015.01.13 02:36:00 - [171] - Quote Try a few unorthodox fits if it's boring. I got a meaty little soma that poops blueberries and can take a 2x hardened gunn login out in a hurry. The AV>V is cyclic. It seems they want people skilled into AV and V. Crush them
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 880	Posted - 2015.01.13 02:42:00 - [172] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 And a completely ignorant cpm who thinks they know everything, but in reality knows next to nothing because they spend all day on the forums instead of playing. Backing my point up here, I just looked and Soraya has 0 kills or wp for the month of January.... Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 95	Posted - 2015.01.13 02:52:00 - [173] - Quote I'm not sure if many of you were paying attention to the Dev blogs pre-beta but this might be an interesting read. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2012/03/vehicle-dev-b/ Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16540	Posted - 2015.01.13 02:58:00 - [174] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 And a completely ignorant cpm who thinks they know everything, but in reality knows next to nothing because they spend all day on the forums instead of playing. Backing my point up here, I just looked and Soraya has 0 kills or wp for the month of January.... It's doesn't much matter if he has played or not recently. I'm waiting for his statistics to prove the legitimacy of his stand point. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
JONAHBENHUR WarRavens Capital Punishment. 70	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:11:00 - [175] - Quote awwwwwww q _q my 400 k tanks only killed 16 people before 2 guys with swarms teamed up and killed me if you want sympathy say how rails kinda suck except for tank killing #bring back spash damage (only on large though) "To be a man you must have honor, "HONOR AND A PENIS !!" -shinoske noharu
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3516	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:57:00 - [176] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Alright let's bump the swarm launcher cost up to 200k since they should be able to solo a Python. (Remember Pythons are STD so STD Swarms will be 200k. While we're at it we should also make Pythons invisible. See how fast the 1=1 argument deteriorates? If that happened, I want swarms to 2 shot pythons, because pythons 2 shot my AV suit, and fire faster to boot. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3516	Posted - 2015.01.13 03:59:00 - [177] - Quote One Aver should be able to take out one vehicle. Simple as that. It should be a fair match. By being in a vehicle alone, you force people to bring AV, and thus become INCREDIBLY vulnerable to infantry with other weapons, and thus you are helping your team right there. (Similar to the function of an Amarr scout or Gal Logi). "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3516	Posted - 2015.01.13 04:00:00 - [178] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Cost. Is. Revelevent. Size. Is Relevant. Indeed what is the point in a currency if cost is irrelevant? Have a go at thinking about that for a second will you. And balance my friend is what makes games boring. Should I expect to be able to kill a titan in a frigate in EVE? No. No matter how much I shoot at it. I wouldn't even take on a battleship. The titan not only costs a few million times what a frigate costs, but is also several million times the mass. If someone who thinks a top end HAV shouldn't be able to tank a militia swarm launcher, started playing EVE, they would probably start whining that they can't kill all the battleships in their rookie ship. That's the analogy here. i.e. you Is EVE 16v16? "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3516	Posted - 2015.01.13 04:03:00 - [179] - Quote If these changes go through, I want a machine gun laser OB launcher, as that will be the only thing that will be able to kill vehicles. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5329	Posted - 2015.01.13 04:45:00 - [180] - Quote It's embarrassing a thread with this much stupid still exists. Forums, I am disappoint. Stupid Blueberry wrote: Backing my point up here, I just looked and Soraya has 0 kills or wp for the month of January.... I've been moving. If you've ever had to buy a condo, move out, and then sell a condo in a short time, you'd be stunned to discover I'm managing to do it while maintaining a full time paid job, and a full time unpaid job (being CPM), and doing both jobs moderately well. Also, the desk where I want my PS3 has a miswired electrical outlet, and my electrician didn't call me back for two weeks in a row... Go figure. (The PS3 is plugged into the TV, but I can't play FPSes at a TV. Like, at all.) Also handling family matters since my parents are incapable of raising children (still amazed I survived their household long enough to be on my own), and I just signed up to be a mentor at my brother's high school, which hour-wise is like another part time job too. Half the things listed above are about twice as complicated as I feel like detailing on a public forum. And still, I manage enough time to put bad trolls like yourself in their place. Seriously, man, don't judge people you don't know anything about. I'm not going to feel shame for taking a few weeks off to get my life in order. Don't be afraid to come up out of mom's basement every so often. ;) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5329	Posted - 2015.01.13 04:49:00 - [181] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Cost. Is. Revelevent. Size. Is Relevant. Indeed what is the point in a currency if cost is irrelevant? Have a go at thinking about that for a second will you. And balance my friend is what makes games boring. Should I expect to be able to kill a titan in a frigate in EVE? No. No matter how much I shoot at it. I wouldn't even take on a battleship. The titan not only costs a few million times what a frigate costs, but is also several million times the mass. If someone who thinks a top end HAV shouldn't be able to tank a militia swarm launcher, started playing EVE, they would probably start whining that they can't kill all the battleships in their rookie ship. That's the analogy here. i.e. you Is EVE 16v16? Nailed it. In EVE it's common for massive numbers of smaller ships to engage a larger ship or a small group of larger ships. In a 16v16 game, this asymmetrical balance methodology does not work. Either vehicles need to require multiple people to use (equivalent to their power), or they need to be equal in power to infantry. If vehicle users cannot except either of those options, vehicles should honestly just be removed. Because a 16v16 game cannot be balanced if one player is able to be as powerful as two or three other players combined. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1460	Posted - 2015.01.13 05:06:00 - [182] - Quote hold that wrote: [quote=Ld Collins]The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I watched an infantry player kill 60 other infantry players, this is a kdr for all infantry of 1:1. This is the very definition of balance, although if we break it down each component if a fit may be imbalanced. The problem is not tankers going 30-0, the problem is when the tanker kills 30 infantry, there is no corresponding 30 tanker deaths, this is the very definition of imbalanced. Unfortunately, a 1:1 kdr between tankers and infantry is completely unacceptable to tankers, they believe that they are entitled to a much higher ratio. What do you think a fair KDR average for ALL tankers should be? We really can't go much farther in reaching an agreement about balance until we have a common understanding of what that means. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1460	Posted - 2015.01.13 05:10:00 - [183] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: Ld Collins wrote: The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 The problem is not that a tanker goes 30-0. No one is saying Duna has a 50-1 kdr therefore nerf tanks. The problem is that almost all tankers can go 30-0. As a group vehicle users have the highest kdr by far aside from snipers. This is why when tankers come here and cry they get no sympathy. But tankers do not got 30/0 at the moment. Haven't seen someone/anyone do that since 1.7 when Triple Rep Maddies were the bane of this game. Even before that I can't remember ever seeing anyone besides myself barring maybe Lorhak or Jason Pearson who ever scored more than 25 kills a match in a tank. Chromosome was a different story though. Most of the community did not even have the SP for AV. What is your KDR as a tanker? What is your WP/death as a tanker? Because, that's why.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2735	Posted - 2015.01.13 05:14:00 - [184] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: What is your KDR as a tanker? What is your WP/death as a tanker? There's no separation between points as infantry and points in a vehicle. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1460	Posted - 2015.01.13 05:19:00 - [185] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 And a completely ignorant cpm who thinks they know everything, but in reality knows next to nothing because they spend all day on the forums instead of playing. Backing my point up here, I just looked and Soraya has 0 kills or wp for the month of January.... It's doesn't much matter if he has played or not recently. I'm waiting for his statistics to prove the legitimacy of his stand point. Me too. I'd like to know some statistics rather than just guessing from what I observe. Before that though, what metrics should we use to determine balance and what are acceptable numbers for those metrics? Should a vehicle user be equal to an infantry player since they are both only one player? Does ISK matter and if so, how much? I fear the disagreement for most runs deeper than faulty perception but lies rather in different expectations. When I read that "a single rep Madrugar should be able to rep right through constant swarms", well, I don't think we are going to agree. Because, that's why.
Stupid Blueberry Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 884	Posted - 2015.01.13 05:21:00 - [186] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It's embarrassing a thread with this much stupid still exists. Forums, I am disappoint. Stupid Blueberry wrote: Backing my point up here, I just looked and Soraya has 0 kills or wp for the month of January.... I've been moving. If you've ever had to buy a condo, move out, and then sell a condo in a short time, you'd be stunned to discover I'm managing to do it while maintaining a full time paid job, and a full time unpaid job (being CPM), and doing both jobs moderately well. Also, the desk where I want my PS3 has a miswired electrical outlet, and my electrician didn't call me back for two weeks in a row... Go figure. (The PS3 is plugged into the TV, but I can't play FPSes at a TV. Like, at all.) Also handling family matters since my parents are incapable of raising children (still amazed I survived their household long enough to be on my own), and I just signed up to be a mentor at my brother's high school, which hour-wise is like another part time job too. Half the things listed above are about twice as complicated as I feel like detailing on a public forum. And still, I manage enough time to put bad trolls like yourself in their place. Seriously, man, don't judge people you don't know anything about. I'm not going to feel shame for taking a few weeks off to get my life in order. Don't be afraid to come up out of mom's basement every so often. ;) Again, hypocrite. You say don't judge people you don't know anything about, yet in the same paragraph you accuse me of being a basement dweller. Again, you have no business being a CPM if all you can do is insult others and run your mouth about things you clearly have no knowledge in. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2735	Posted - 2015.01.13 05:56:00 - [187] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: True Adamance wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 And a completely ignorant cpm who thinks they know everything, but in reality knows next to nothing because they spend all day on the forums instead of playing. Backing my point up here, I just looked and Soraya has 0 kills or wp for the month of January.... It's doesn't much matter if he has played or not recently. I'm waiting for his statistics to prove the legitimacy of his stand point. Me too. I'd like to know some statistics rather than just guessing from what I observe. Before that though, what metrics should we use to determine balance and what are acceptable numbers for those metrics? Should a vehicle user be equal to an infantry player since they are both only one player? Does ISK matter and if so, how much? I fear the disagreement for most runs deeper than faulty perception but lies rather in different expectations. When I read that "a single rep Madrugar should be able to rep right through constant swarms", well, I don't think we are going to agree. 5mil infantry > 20mil pilot I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 247	Posted - 2015.01.13 06:07:00 - [188] - Quote xavier zor wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. you should. A tank is a tank. A mercenary is a mercenary. Your view is so one-minded and skewed, just express your hate for tanks some other way. A single-repped madrugar should be able to withstand a constant swarmer Soraya Xel wrote: The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. If you lose 5-6 suits, you are doing it wrong.... and besides, how fun is it to an ADS pilot who can get maybe 1-2 kills before a swarmer notices him, and he has to retreat? Don't forget the bloody redline railguns/railtanks that one-shot my python, 2 shot my incubus (as in, i get shot once, knocked around then by the time i stabilize and start thrusting upwards he has launched his second shot and i'm dead) just saying that a AVer loosing 5-6 suit they must be doing it wrong is like some one sayinf loosing 2-4 tanks your doing it wrong, you dont know what he came up on, when i loose a suit its because i ran into inf. trying to catch up on to my squad or if im alone. for tanks it could be that they got jumped by AV or out tanked second the last line you wrote instead of trying to stabilize roll with the hit if it knocks you to the left go with that direction you will get momentum and gain speed from it, instead of fighting against the force. its what i do and it works for me Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 185	Posted - 2015.01.13 08:34:00 - [189] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: hold that wrote: [quote=Ld Collins]The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I watched an infantry player kill 60 other infantry players, this is a kdr for all infantry of 1:1. This is the very definition of balance, although if we break it down each component if a fit may be imbalanced. The problem is not tankers going 30-0, the problem is when the tanker kills 30 infantry, there is no corresponding 30 tanker deaths, this is the very definition of imbalanced. Unfortunately, a 1:1 kdr between tankers and infantry is completely unacceptable to tankers, they believe that they are entitled to a much higher ratio. What do you think a fair KDR average for ALL tankers should be? We really can't go much farther in reaching an agreement about balance until we have a common understanding of what that means. It's pretty obvious to me that you have a problem understanding what you read. At a time where tankers were racking up 20 plus kills people came on the forum and begged ccp to nerf tanks. Even though if a tanker were to go 20+ or 30+ in killsthe tanker would not have made enough isk to cover 1 tank and if he died it would be a loss. Tanks were extremely expensive in there golden days now they are just coffins on wheels. If your team lets a tank get over 10 kills in a match its your teams fault its not that tanks are op. For tanks to make money they have to kill high vallue targets other tanks dropships because killing infantry does not pay the bills. You're flat out wrong to say that there is no balance there. 1-1 more like 20-1 if you blow up 4 tanks in a match with your tank you can make a profit tack on some installations and a few infantry then you've got a decient profit.
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 185	Posted - 2015.01.13 08:44:00 - [190] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Cost. Is. Revelevent. Size. Is Relevant. Indeed what is the point in a currency if cost is irrelevant? Have a go at thinking about that for a second will you. And balance my friend is what makes games boring. Should I expect to be able to kill a titan in a frigate in EVE? No. No matter how much I shoot at it. I wouldn't even take on a battleship. The titan not only costs a few million times what a frigate costs, but is also several million times the mass. If someone who thinks a top end HAV shouldn't be able to tank a militia swarm launcher, started playing EVE, they would probably start whining that they can't kill all the battleships in their rookie ship. That's the analogy here. i.e. you Is EVE 16v16? Nailed it. In EVE it's common for massive numbers of smaller ships to engage a larger ship or a small group of larger ships. In a 16v16 game, this asymmetrical balance methodology does not work. Either vehicles need to require multiple people to use (equivalent to their power), or they need to be equal in power to infantry. If vehicle users cannot except either of those options, vehicles should honestly just be removed. Because a 16v16 game cannot be balanced if one player is able to be as powerful as two or three other players combined. How about you remove all advanced and prototype av from the game since there are no advanced or prototype vehicles.

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6360	Posted - 2015.01.13 08:54:00 - [191] - Quote The distinguishing difference in your rather extreme examples is the 60/1 infantry is an extreme rarity. My two absolute best matches were 53/2 and 43/13. That's twice in two years. No other match comes remotely close. The tank drivers at one point were running 20-25/0 for match after match after match until they bumped into someone like me and exploded. Then they came on the forums to scream that AV needed to be nerfed because :reasons: Most of the infantry hate comes from the latter portion where a tank driver wpuld explode in a marauder once every 4-8 matches and absolutely sh*t themselves. That offensive ember has never died in the minds of AV players. Now. On the other side of the coin, the elite infantry slayers were whiny little brats who openly stated that they should not have to change their fits to tackle and win against a tank. They also cried hardest when I shot them with a forge gun. The blame lies equally both ways, but whenever pilots start raging that their precious toys need to be able to be immune to dying to infantry AV it usually inspires AV hate and you see a sharp uptick of players who will run AV just to kill vehicles. When the mad happens because of these forum rants infantry stop caring about winning and focus on annihilating your walkets one HAV at a time to punish your audacity. You want balance and parity? You want to stop being the battlefield victims? Stop making entitled and poorly considered rants like this. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
xavier zor Rogue Instincts 396	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:01:00 - [192] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: xavier zor wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. you should. A tank is a tank. A mercenary is a mercenary. Your view is so one-minded and skewed, just express your hate for tanks some other way. A single-repped madrugar should be able to withstand a constant swarmer Soraya Xel wrote: The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. If you lose 5-6 suits, you are doing it wrong.... and besides, how fun is it to an ADS pilot who can get maybe 1-2 kills before a swarmer notices him, and he has to retreat? Don't forget the bloody redline railguns/railtanks that one-shot my python, 2 shot my incubus (as in, i get shot once, knocked around then by the time i stabilize and start thrusting upwards he has launched his second shot and i'm dead) just saying that a AVer loosing 5-6 suit they must be doing it wrong is like some one sayinf loosing 2-4 tanks your doing it wrong, you dont know what he came up on, when i loose a suit its because i ran into inf. trying to catch up on to my squad or if im alone. for tanks it could be that they got jumped by AV or out tanked second the last line you wrote instead of trying to stabilize roll with the hit if it knocks you to the left go with that direction you will get momentum and gain speed from it, instead of fighting against the force. its what i do and it works for me Thanks for the tip, i will try it out :) i am assuming that the vehicle is battling with the infantry, and no other infantry is around. Of course if other infantry were around, especially minjas..... whole different story well...i have nothing to say
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 249	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:13:00 - [193] - Quote xavier zor wrote: Thanks for the tip, i will try it out :) i am assuming that the vehicle is battling with the infantry, and no other infantry is around. Of course if other infantry were around, especially minjas..... whole different story but then it's 2 v 1, so of course you lose
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16549	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:57:00 - [194] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Me too. I'd like to know some statistics rather than just guessing from what I observe. Before that though, what metrics should we use to determine balance and what are acceptable numbers for those metrics? Should a vehicle user be equal to an infantry player since they are both only one player? Does ISK matter and if so, how much? I fear the disagreement for most runs deeper than faulty perception but lies rather in different expectations. When I read that "a single rep Madrugar should be able to rep right through constant swarms", well, I don't think we are going to agree. It's a really tricky thing to balance. On one hand you might want an HAV to represent a Tank ( a heavily armoured grounding fighting vehicle with a large calibre gun) but on the other hand you cannot make and HAV impervious to enemy fire and still able to very efficiently engage and destroy infantrymen. ISK I would say is a metric and factor despite what other might suggest as in previous builds the maintenance costs of redeploying vehicles was enormous. This was a good thing as I see it. eHP is a metric or perhaps I should suggest resistance values on tanks bother their natural vs certain damage types and in terms of hardeners as those directly determine the total eHP of the vehicle. SP perhaps is one as well. Previous builds saw tiered progression from the class unlike the current build which has standardised many type of modules. If there are any other suggest them. They are all worth talking about. One of the more radical Ideas I have about tanks is that I fundamentally believe that all HAV turrets should fire a small number 1-2 high explosive shells. Ideally good shots in Tanks will still have a means of defeating infantry and applying damage through splash but wont be able to use multiple consecutive shots without re-chambering a round. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16549	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:02:00 - [195] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The distinguishing difference in your rather extreme examples is the 60/1 infantry is an extreme rarity. My two absolute best matches were 53/2 and 43/13. That's twice in two years. No other match comes remotely close. The tank drivers at one point were running 20-25/0 for match after match after match until they bumped into someone like me and exploded. Then they came on the forums to scream that AV needed to be nerfed because :reasons: Most of the infantry hate comes from the latter portion where a tank driver wpuld explode in a marauder once every 4-8 matches and absolutely sht themselves. That offensive ember has never died in the minds of AV players. Now. On the other side of the coin, the elite infantry slayers were whiny little brats who openly stated that they should not have to change their fits to tackle and win against a tank. They also cried hardest when I shot them with a forge gun. The blame lies equally both ways, but whenever pilots start raging that their precious toys need to be able to be immune to dying to infantry AV it usually inspires AV hate and you see a sharp uptick of players who will run AV just to kill vehicles. When the mad happens because of these forum rants infantry stop caring about winning and focus on annihilating your walkets one HAV at a time to punish your audacity. You want balance and parity? You want to stop being the battlefield victims? Stop making entitled and poorly considered rants like this. Honestly Breaking I can't really remember a time that was the case as a result of me being over powered though I will admit that at one point I was certainly aware of how powerful the double rep/ triple rep Madrugar was. Since 1.7's release I've personally (and this is purely my own anecdotal evidence not to misconstrued as me preaching "Fact") seen a decrease in my efficiency as a tanker. Nearing the end of 1.6 when tanks were still relatively interesting to use I was doing as you said. Scoring 44/0, 52/1, 66/0, etc though even then those were very much so oddities for me as a player. As for QQ well we have to admit that every group in Dust has complained about another play style incessantly. AV has done it before, tanks did it before, assaults did it, scout did it, heavies did it, etc. No point in throwing blame around as everyone is equally guilty. "He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 492	Posted - 2015.01.13 11:02:00 - [196] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) if cost were irelvant then why is a proto suit so much more effective than adv/std/mlt grade suits?...... because it costs more and has literally better everything. hence you pay more for better suit and get a clear distinct advantage over another suit. my PLC assault suit costs me 207k isk. and can not only take down vehicles but thanks to the sidearm can pose a threat to unprepared infantry. now my ion cannon madruagrs can xt-201/particle cannon gunnlogis all cost at least double to triple my PLC/swarm suit fittings. and yet the av suits are more effective at bringing down an enbemys tank/dropsship/lav than my own fckn hulking death machines. comeing from an AV point of view.....its simply still too powerful compared to the state of vehicles. just to give you an idea. my allotek plasma cannon with prof 5 and 3 complex lights and laidai pckeds can kill a gunnlogi quicker than my complex modded ion cannon madrugar can........and this is a suit costing half/third the price. there is a problem when 1 measly assault suit can solo even the best fitted hulking death machines and bring it down. assult dropships how ever................are utter fckn bulshit to deal with. I have seen plently shrug off my swarms and PLC only to either afterburn away/or shield boost/rep. then if you get the real annoying pilots are capable of sitting over your tank and annoying the ** out of you with a apperntly never-ending or never having to reload their missile launcher. as it stands the assault drop ship is worth its isk for its bang. LAVS...............fckn wheel charis for heavies tanks. are currently laughable and when an assault dropship can last longer than a tank can theres an issue. I've seen some decent lavs recently being able to take some av but are still killable. still. the more isk you pay for suit means you can kill quicker or take more damage or what ever you fit for. tanks however......still need redoing. a 500k isk tank shouldn't be blown up by a 200k isk av suit. HOWEVER 2 of these 200k isk suits should be able to bring down the tank. now befor you call bullshit.......think of it this way. when theres a 200k isk suit it generally means hes also got a decent sidearm to deal with infantry and after the sidearm pass their all quite powerful especially the ion pistols/ smg's and bolt pistol's. just because 2 people are dealing with vehicles dosnt mean your team has lost 2 infantry. their fitted for a different role and are more susceptible to opposing infantry but still pose a threat. as for the tank. lets say this one is a cheap crappy milita tank with no sp/isk invested. this should be looked as a literaly no threat and can be cake walked by mlt or std av. ADV av would decamatie it. proto would over kill it. now lets make it a 500k isk fully skilled/ proto turret/complex mod fitted tank., this is what your team should fear and run away from. not simply ignore it and mill it for points. when a tank costing this much is deployed it should A: assist the team in away that the blue berrys want to keep it alive and maintain vehicle/firepower superiorty. and B:should be the primary goal of removal for the opposing team in order to keep the fight balanced and prevent the enemy from haveing an advantage. conclusion: if the more isk you pay for a dropsuit means its more effecent/.effective then the same should apply to vehicles. how ever with the current implemntaion of AV and vehicles. the scales currently wieigh in towards AV favour. although tanks have had their prices reduced from what they were, they are still noit worth their isk. especially when you have coordinated squad's of proto stomping assholes that not only wipe out infantry upon spwan in. but any vehicle on an rdv being deployed. back in chromosome when even millita tanks were costing around a good 200-600k isk they were capable of scareing/killing proto suits....why.......BECUSE THEY WERE FREAKING MORE EXPENSIVE and hence had more bang for their back. and even if destroyed were still a pain to replace and restock. now lets not get started on chromosome STD fitted tanks being between 400k-1mill and the fearsome marduer tanks and their costs of anywhere bettwen 1.3 - 2.6mill isk prices. so again: more isk/sp investment should mean what ever you use or your team uses should be harder to remove and is more efficient at its task. Elite Gallenten Soldier**
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3592	Posted - 2015.01.13 11:30:00 - [197] - Quote I'm obviously a little late to the party here so forgive me, if younhave heard all this before. 1) A single AVer should absolutely be capable of destroying your Incubus/Python much like the HAV an ADS is a vehicles mainly for solo pilots. This maintains the one to one ratio. Your ADS specalises in clearing rooftops and hunting HAVs which is where the vehicle becomes worth it's weight in gold. 2) The whole problem stems from 2 main factors, vehicles do not have designated roles on the battlefield, a vehicle user can still have their infantry suit available aftee death. If we had more defined roles for vehicles we could more accurately determine their force strength and buff/nerf them appropriately (this would be easiest by creating a full vehicle roster) Because vehicle Pilots can still have their regular suit in addition to the vehicle, they effectively have 2 suits that they can change between at a moments notice, imagine having a scout suit that could transform into a heavy suit by pressing the circle button, that's effectively what a vehicle does. 3) Everyone, Pilots, AVers and most infantry (excluding those who don't want vehicles at all) are happy to give pilots so much more variation, the only stipulation most of us have is that pilot suits are also implememted. 4) Finally in relation to your 2mill SP for an AV fit statememt, this assumes you do not account for any of the transferrable or passive skills in the infantry, which would mean you only account for the large turret and the hull type you use. In addition, while it the entire swarm launcher tree costs less than 10mill and the Commando tree also, slapping a PRO Launcher on a PRO Minmando will just get you killed a lot. Your average AV suit (including your perphierals such as, sidearm, ehp mods, biotic mods, damage mods, electronic and engineeeing passive bonuses, weapon handling) comes to about 34million SP the last time I totted it up (memory serving) and approximately 500-750k ISK While Your average Vehicle came to approximately 32.6million SP and about 1.3million ISK, though with the price reductions most of my ADS fits come in at around 450k ISK. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3592	Posted - 2015.01.13 11:41:00 - [198] - Quote Sorex Yel wrote: Nailed it. In EVE it's common for massive numbers of smaller ships to engage a larger ship or a small group of larger ships. In a 16v16 game, this asymmetrical balance methodology does not work. Either vehicles need to require multiple people to use (equivalent to their power), or they need to be equal in power to infantry. If vehicle users cannot except either of those options, vehicles should honestly just be removed. Because a 16v16 game cannot be balanced if one player is able to be as powerful as two or three other players combined. I may not like your attitude towards other people as a CPM, but for once with that statement you are preaching to the choir. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 185	Posted - 2015.01.13 13:57:00 - [199] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The distinguishing difference in your rather extreme examples is the 60/1 infantry is an extreme rarity. My two absolute best matches were 53/2 and 43/13. That's twice in two years. No other match comes remotely close. The tank drivers at one point were running 20-25/0 for match after match after match until they bumped into someone like me and exploded. Then they came on the forums to scream that AV needed to be nerfed because :reasons: Most of the infantry hate comes from the latter portion where a tank driver wpuld explode in a marauder once every 4-8 matches and absolutely sh*t themselves. That offensive ember has never died in the minds of AV players. Now. On the other side of the coin, the elite infantry slayers were whiny little brats who openly stated that they should not have to change their fits to tackle and win against a tank. They also cried hardest when I shot them with a forge gun. The blame lies equally both ways, but whenever pilots start raging that their precious toys need to be able to be immune to dying to infantry AV it usually inspires AV hate and you see a sharp uptick of players who will run AV just to kill vehicles. When the mad happens because of these forum rants infantry stop caring about winning and focus on annihilating your walkets one HAV at a time to punish your audacity. You want balance and parity? You want to stop being the battlefield victims? Stop making entitled and poorly considered rants like this. Tanks aren't going 60-0 50 40 30 20 or even 10 solo period point blank tanks barely manage 10 kills without being blown up. People are clinging to the past regurgitation the same cries about tanks every time an AV verses infantry thread comes up. They dont want things to change im sorry that you cannot see this happening. The only viable vehicles are gunnlogis pythons and the incubus im seriously disturbed by the people on this forum. Do you all even play this game? Also what a waste of time this thread is not a single blue tag. Please continue rambling on aimlessly on this forum for likes.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6370	Posted - 2015.01.13 14:30:00 - [200] - Quote Because what I describe is what you seem to be demanding. And when one of the HAV crowd has the audacity to say without irony that a solo AV gunner should be unable to take an HAV one on one, then in the same post claim someone losing 5-6 dropsuits tackling a vehicle is "doing it wrong" I tend to utterly lose respect for the argument. Nothing the HAV community has presented here could be considered useful or balanced, entirely based on "I want infantry AV ineffective" and as childish as the early complaining that you couldn't slaughter an HAV with a rifle. This thread exemplifies the tgreadcrapping of the past, hence the examples from as far back as chromosome beta are valid. Because you are using cookie cutter whining that is identical to every whine thread I have encountered since January of 2013 when I entered the closed beta. Two years hasn't been enough to foster maturity and an understanding that there is no immunity, no guarantee and no niche protection for anyone in DUST. You are as bad as the AV crowd you claim wants to ruin your playstyle. You are no better than Soraya's trolling because the core of your message to the majority of the playerbase is that "you should not matter." This is a selfish, pathetic sentiment, and one commonly ascribed to sociopathic individuals and politicians. Grow up. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2735	Posted - 2015.01.13 18:22:00 - [201] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: slobbering Go ruin a different game. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1957	Posted - 2015.01.13 18:26:00 - [202] - Quote Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:10:00 - [203] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Cost. Is. Revelevent. Size. Is Relevant. Indeed what is the point in a currency if cost is irrelevant? Have a go at thinking about that for a second will you. And balance my friend is what makes games boring. Should I expect to be able to kill a titan in a frigate in EVE? No. No matter how much I shoot at it. I wouldn't even take on a battleship. The titan not only costs a few million times what a frigate costs, but is also several million times the mass. If someone who thinks a top end HAV shouldn't be able to tank a militia swarm launcher, started playing EVE, they would probably start whining that they can't kill all the battleships in their rookie ship. That's the analogy here. i.e. you Is EVE 16v16? Nailed it. In EVE it's common for massive numbers of smaller ships to engage a larger ship or a small group of larger ships. In a 16v16 game, this asymmetrical balance methodology does not work. Either vehicles need to require multiple people to use (equivalent to their power), or they need to be equal in power to infantry. If vehicle users cannot except either of those options, vehicles should honestly just be removed. Because a 16v16 game cannot be balanced if one player is able to be as powerful as two or three other players combined. There are some major factors that you are overlooking when you saying that it should only ever take one player to counter one player. And I mean MASSIVE! Think about this will you. Which has the advantage in confined close quarter spaces, assuming both are isolated from their teams, a sentinel with a hmg or two logis with ARs? Obviously the sentinel. Indeed you could argue that in close quarters a sentinel is worth more in terms of worth to the team than most other roles/suits. It will take several players to take down a sential, certainly a proto. In a way the player using the sentinel is worth several assault classes (players) when defending a point/objective. The sentinel has its weaknesses of course. It's slower thus easier targeted by snipers and is not as suitable for skirmish maps where there are several objectives set far apart from each other. But ultimately there are certain classes that are better suited to different roles. There could be a team of proto stompers against a team of blueberries. Still 16 v 16 but massivly unfair and unbalanced. The factors are how much the suit costs, how good your skills are and what your opponent's skills are that determine how much you are worth to the team. ( I would say an mk.0 assault is worth about 5 blueberries ) And so the HAV and the ADS. How many players are they worth now and how many players were they worth in the past? ( much of this would depend on how good the pilot is and what amount of isk was spent on the tank. In the hands of a blueberry a soma isn't worth 1 good player using a suit of equal isk cost on the opponent's side). Again it all depends on the environment in question. What use am I to my team using a blaster tank in a multi storey complex where most of the enemy team is far behind cover. Answer is I'm not worth much and I really shouldn't be in there in the first place as it is very easy to ambush me with PLCs and REs ( you know the AV that is actually balanced ). It should be easy for 1 player to counter me in this situation. But it is only these urban environments where it should be easy for one infantry to effectively counter me. I'm in a tank with a very fat ass I can't duck behind cover. Same with the ADS it takes only one militia swarm launcher to force me into a wall and possibly kill me. Out in the open however, this is where vehicles should be necessary and where they should be boss. The only 1 man counter to a HAV out here should be another HAV or perhaps an ADS. Just like in close quarters if there is an adv heavy logi duo walking around stomping my team the best counter for that is another heavy logi duo and this time maybe it's worth risking a couple of proto suits. This is what dust is about. It's not an even playing field all the time. Sometimes more isk will be risked for greater reward. Whether it be in the form of more expensive gear or indeed a vehicle. Taking that depth away is only dumbing the game down. Specialization: Making typo's.
Bone Doc Commando Perkone Caldari State 11	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:17:00 - [204] - Quote This sound like another thread I was in another part of the forum so I'm just going to repost... Bone Doc wrote: The only vehicles that dont have a role are tanks while LAV and dropships are pure transportation with minor firepower, the only time I'v ever seen a good role for tanks was back in closed beta when the massive installations had to be destroyed or captured in order for the game to proceed to the next phase,everything that's changed since then has only boxed them into the role of death machines with no role outside of that. Maybe the game modes need to change in order to give the vehicles more purpose instead of changing the vehicle themselfs,idk just thinking to myself.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:20:00 - [205] - Quote Bone Doc wrote: This sound like another thread I was in another part of the forum so I'm just going to repost... Bone Doc wrote: The only vehicles that dont have a role are tanks while LAV and dropships are pure transportation with minor firepower, the only time I'v ever seen a good role for tanks was back in closed beta when the massive installations had to be destroyed or captured in order for the game to proceed to the next phase,everything that's changed since then has only boxed them into the role of death machines with no role outside of that. Maybe the game modes need to change in order to give the vehicles more purpose instead of changing the vehicle themselfs,idk just thinking to myself. They need only bring back skirmish 1.0 for that. Specialization: Making typo's.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:21:00 - [206] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. ...ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! NO. Specialization: Making typo's.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6390	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:26:00 - [207] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. weakspots were never removed ANY weapon that hits a tank in the aft quarter just so will annihilate it by the numbers. Now just imagine. For a year in chrome I successfully hunted marauders ignorant of the existence of the weakspot. Sheet's updated with proposed numbers for the scrambler lance and heavy autocannon that Rattati was thinking about at one point. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6390	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:27:00 - [208] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. ...ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! NO. weakspots still exist. current values for the weakspot don't need a buff. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1957	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:37:00 - [209] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. ...ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! NO. weakspots still exist. current values for the weakspot don't need a buff. Never said they were removed but severely nerfed as forges gave 204% and 214% as i stated but have little over 100% now that a big nerf . It's a dynamic I do believe need to be fixed as when im rolling my Gunnlogi (which is about 80% of the time these days) I am very aware of forge gunners getting shots on my weak spot this is a habit I form tanking in chrome now it dosent really do that muchbmore dammage whrn hit in the soft spot . If a forge gunner was abke to get to a good position behind ta tank they deserve the dammage bonus . Also inthought you might want to consifer this when tour giving input into the hav thread in the ideas forum. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16551	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:48:00 - [210] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. ...ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! NO. weakspots still exist. current values for the weakspot don't need a buff. Never said they were removed but severely nerfed as forges gave 204% and 214% as i stated but have little over 100% now that a big nerf . It's a dynamic I do believe need to be fixed as when im rolling my Gunnlogi (which is about 80% of the time these days) I am very aware of forge gunners getting shots on my weak spot this is a habit I form tanking in chrome now it dosent really do that muchbmore dammage whrn hit in the soft spot . If a forge gunner was abke to get to a good position behind ta tank they deserve the dammage bonus . Also inthought you might want to consifer this when tour giving input into the hav thread in the ideas forum. It's certainly something worth consideration. On one hand it does in some way encourage AVers to attack the weaker rear armour on the other 204 and 214% respectively are very high bonuses for a game like Dust. I can certainly handle 1-2 hit kills but I doubt the rest of the community can. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2735	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:56:00 - [211] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:56:00 - [212] - Quote True Adamance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. ...ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! NO. weakspots still exist. current values for the weakspot don't need a buff. Never said they were removed but severely nerfed as forges gave 204% and 214% as i stated but have little over 100% now that a big nerf . It's a dynamic I do believe need to be fixed as when im rolling my Gunnlogi (which is about 80% of the time these days) I am very aware of forge gunners getting shots on my weak spot this is a habit I form tanking in chrome now it dosent really do that muchbmore dammage whrn hit in the soft spot . If a forge gunner was abke to get to a good position behind ta tank they deserve the dammage bonus . Also inthought you might want to consifer this when tour giving input into the hav thread in the ideas forum. It's certainly something worth consideration. On one hand it does in some way encourage AVers to attack the weaker rear armour on the other 204 and 214% respectively are very high bonuses for a game like Dust. I can certainly handle 1-2 hit kills but I doubt the rest of the community can. I'd be cool if they increased the weak spot bonus and reduced the overall DPS of AV. It would certainly reward good gameplay more. Specialization: Making typo's.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1957	Posted - 2015.01.13 20:01:00 - [213] - Quote True Adamance wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. ...ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! NO. weakspots still exist. current values for the weakspot don't need a buff. Never said they were removed but severely nerfed as forges gave 204% and 214% as i stated but have little over 100% now that a big nerf . It's a dynamic I do believe need to be fixed as when im rolling my Gunnlogi (which is about 80% of the time these days) I am very aware of forge gunners getting shots on my weak spot this is a habit I form tanking in chrome now it dosent really do that muchbmore dammage whrn hit in the soft spot . If a forge gunner was abke to get to a good position behind ta tank they deserve the dammage bonus . Also inthought you might want to consifer this when tour giving input into the hav thread in the ideas forum. It's certainly something worth consideration. On one hand it does in some way encourage AVers to attack the weaker rear armour on the other 204 and 214% respectively are very high bonuses for a game like Dust. I can certainly handle 1-2 hit kills but I doubt the rest of the community can. The only forge that could get that 2 hit hill was the dcma breech forge gun . They removed the wiki in chrome . Although I stripped 6000 shields of off some poor dude sagi with my breech one game Jason person had just popped my Gunnlogi with his particle cannon so I went on the hunt and found some poor sagi pilot camping on the old manus peak it was hilariousI could feel his panic. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1957	Posted - 2015.01.13 20:03:00 - [214] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough. is that for shields or armour ? I genuinely don't notice whether avers are hitting my weak spot or not , that being said I notice it when it's a breech that's whacking me Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15531	Posted - 2015.01.13 20:14:00 - [215] - Quote Im fairly confident that the existence of the CPM does nothing but harm this game. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6391	Posted - 2015.01.13 20:18:00 - [216] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough. for once I agree. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6391	Posted - 2015.01.13 20:19:00 - [217] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough. is that for shields or armour ? I genuinely don't notice whether avers are hitting my weak spot or not , that being said I notice it when it's a breech that's whacking me shields. armor gets whacked by a forge for about 245% in the bunghole EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 83	Posted - 2015.01.13 20:33:00 - [218] - Quote swarm speed is too fast and follows you for too long. there's hardly any falloff on the projectiles so they end up 2-shotting a 345K ADS. installation AI is too OP. does the same thing but unmanned. all i gotta say about AV. truth. I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR. Twittter: SkylineExplicit
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16552	Posted - 2015.01.13 21:04:00 - [219] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: I'd be cool if they increased the weak spot bonus and reduced the overall DPS of AV. It would certainly reward good gameplay more. I'm not necessarily in agreement with that solely because I feel like it would force AV players into more difficult situations where they "MUST" fire at rear armour to get kills and honestly now that I know more about tanks and the fundamentals of their armour design and various other kinds of penetration values and what not..... I know that rounds "CAN and WILL" penetrate armour from most angles". *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 249	Posted - 2015.01.13 21:27:00 - [220] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And when one of the HAV crowd has the audacity to say without irony that a solo AV gunner should be unable to take an HAV one on one, I don't think most pilots would say they want to be invulnerable 1 v 1, just that in a head on confrontation the tank should win In the same way that a head on confrontation against a heavy should go to the heavy, it requires an ambush to take out solo

Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 250	Posted - 2015.01.13 21:30:00 - [221] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner. The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough. I would not be surprised if Rattati was unaware of vehicle weakspots
KILL3R H3LLH0UND Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 164	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:28:00 - [222] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again. I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:31:00 - [223] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Says the non pilot.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16553	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:39:00 - [224] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k I'm going to stop you there and suggest the immunity to small arms fire as well as the ability to fly coupled with Small Turret fire power...... is worth the costs of a PRO dropsuit and then some. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:54:00 - [225] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Hmmm awfully a pompous attitude isn't that?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3595	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:10:00 - [226] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: slobbering Go ruin a different game. Aah I almost missed this, almost. Such arguements Much logic They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:11:00 - [227] - Quote Hopefully if additional vehicles are added back to the game that the addition of module slots, PG/CPU, armor/shields, and passive skills can make all vehicles a bit more likely to not die immediately. Bear in mind many people who run AV run proto stuff with a maxed out tree for the AV choice. The same people tend to take advantage of bonuses given by suits such as the Minmando. Those AV fittings should rightfully deal damage and be a force on the battlefield which they currently are. AV seems to be in a good place. From reading the forms Rattatti seemed to indicate the the devs want constructive input on vehicles such as numbers and spreadsheets. They may be more prone to listen to your thoughts if you submit bonuses, skills and numbers to go with your thoughts.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16556	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:19:00 - [228] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Infantry most certainly do have a chance to escape. Standing in the middle of an open patch of ground is ***** stupid no matter who you are. Infantry or Tanker. I idea that an infantryman has no chance to escape is tank is utterly ridiculous. Currently of the three turret types one is actively designed for the anti infantry role. This being the large blaster which given its mechanic of high dispersion means in all likelihood a fair number of your shots are going to miss their intended target with inaccuracy increasing over time. Can fire up to 48 consecutive rounds before over heat kicks in and your target is gone. The Railgun is specifically not designed for direct anti infantry work and would require a fair amount of effort in order to acquire the target due to the slow horizontal traversal of the turret and its slow rate of fire and low splash damage requiring a direct hit to kill your enemy. Can fire up to 5 consecutive rounds before overheat kicks in and your target is gone. The Missile Launcher is an eclectic mix of both mechanics suffering from dispersion though maintaining a fair level of accuracy but spotty hit detection vs infantry targets. Moreover it unlike the others has a slow muzzle velocity for its missiles and slow traversal requiring a fair amount of effort to acquire the target before a publishing slow reload during which time your target can escape. The issue as I see it is that you seem to be trying to place all of the responsibility for the situation you describe on the pilot. Should not an infantryman of AVer be required to have the situational awareness I do? Should they not be using cover instead of standing in the open? Should not an AVer retreat if their situation becomes less to their advantage? Now I'm not the greatest supporter of Dusts current turrets. I don't even like them. However you are making an assertion in your post that strikes me as very biased. I'll be the first to admit I have an interest in tanks and most likely a bias, yet I am trying to provide positive and meaningful feed back to those sources presenting ideas for consideration. And I'm not even a ***** CPM. You are doing a lot of asserting here and I am not seeing anywhere in your posting any positive suggestions, any concessions, constructive feedback. Regardless of your personal opinions as a CPM you are expected to respond to threads in a mature manner. Not play tit for tat with those you don't agree with. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:20:00 - [229] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Boy is it gonna get bad when the next tier is released and all these people like the OP will have what they want but they will have to spend the SP's to get it , those who haven't will complain that it's too much , most still wont be satisfied but the vets will be content if they just play it out and see how the situation is , AV will complain and ask for a buff if their not experienced ... calling vehicles OP but not understanding the dynamic that's the response that your gonna get ... to me AV is fine and we will have to see once that moment comes but you wont have a real understanding if people from day one .. are complaining , you can't make everyone happy and all the DS pilots who complain are scrubs ( sorry but true ) I fly around in a militia with no investment and if I get shot down it's understood but it barely almost never happens , crash more then I get shot down and that's because I had over 15 mil before my first respec and I did a vehicle respec as well just to see and I gained a lot from that experience . I remember when pilots use to shoot at 50% increase and stack pilots on top of that and lead the board in most matches , couldn't swarm them because of the high ROF and just spamming rounds with gunners left them mostly free roam , even from forgers . That was just where they wanted it and hence the constant complaints from pilots when HAV / LAV users say nothing but they have to deal with far more anti-vehicle efforts then air vehicles . What if additional skills were made for vehicles such as STABILITY? For every level in it the vehicle such as a dropship may not sway or shgakje so much from a hit? Maybe make it a 5% boost fie each level.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:22:00 - [230] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Infantry most certainly do have a chance to escape. Standing in the middle of an open patch of ground is ***** stupid no matter who you are. Infantry or Tanker. I idea that an infantryman has no chance to escape is tank is utterly ridiculous. Currently of the three turret types one is actively designed for the anti infantry role. This being the large blaster which given its mechanic of high dispersion means in all likelihood a fair number of your shots are going to miss their intended target with inaccuracy increasing over time. Can fire up to 48 consecutive rounds before over heat kicks in and your target is gone. The Railgun is specifically not designed for direct anti infantry work and would require a fair amount of effort in order to acquire the target due to the slow horizontal traversal of the turret and its slow rate of fire and low splash damage requiring a direct hit to kill your enemy. Can fire up to 5 consecutive rounds before overheat kicks in and your target is gone. The Missile Launcher is an eclectic mix of both mechanics suffering from dispersion though maintaining a fair level of accuracy but spotty hit detection vs infantry targets. Moreover it unlike the others has a slow muzzle velocity for its missiles and slow traversal requiring a fair amount of effort to acquire the target before a publishing slow reload during which time your target can escape. The issue as I see it is that you seem to be trying to place all of the responsibility for the situation you describe on the pilot. Should not an infantryman of AVer be required to have the situational awareness I do? Should they not be using cover instead of standing in the open? Should not an AVer retreat if their situation becomes less to their advantage? Now I'm not the greatest supporter of Dusts current turrets. I don't even like them. However you are making an assertion in your post that strikes me as very biased. I'll be the first to admit I have an interest in tanks and most likely a bias, yet I am trying to provide positive and meaningful feed back to those sources presenting ideas for consideration. And I'm not even a ***** CPM. You are doing a lot of asserting here and I am not seeing anywhere in your posting any positive suggestions, any concessions, constructive feedback. Regardless of your personal opinions as a CPM you are expected to respond to threads in a mature manner. Not play tit for tat with those you don't agree with. Well said!

Zindorak Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance 1632	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:23:00 - [231] - Quote I don't mind a Vehicle buff Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:25:00 - [232] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Wow you really are ***** ******. Infantry can't escape? Ever heard of a roof or a door or a wall, truck, railing? Yeah, tankers can bail from their tank in their dinky little mlt frontline fit. Dropship pilots bail and get smacked by the ship. You're wrong, and you're being an ass on top of it. First time I lost all respect for a CPM. Ever. The moment you bail from your vehicle it's lost. I never leave my vehicle because it will blow up. My assets are more important to me than preventing some AV setup from killing my clone.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:27:00 - [233] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 Um how about some constructive criticism? People may care and listen to what you have to say.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 111	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:38:00 - [234] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: So I have 60+m SP in infantry skills, suits and weapons. My proto suit costs me in excess of 200k isk. Along comes a starter suit with a basic shotgun and I die before I have a chance to react. Kinda sucks, don't it? That said, I tend to agree that AV is a bit OP at this point. I don't necessarily agree. I either Tank or run Min Logi and I feel that AV is quite effective. I'm speccing into the Forge gun or Plasma cannon myself for a reason. What vehicles need now is the next tier with more module slots and passive skills so that they can survive a 3rd volley if swarms. AV doesn't need a buff or a Nerf. Vehicle skills and variety needs growth.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 111	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:43:00 - [235] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. I don't know the thrill of killing a skilled pilot feels pretty good to me. Whether I'm running AV or in a vehicle.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16556	Posted - 2015.01.13 23:48:00 - [236] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Infantry most certainly do have a chance to escape. Standing in the middle of an open patch of ground is ***** stupid no matter who you are. Infantry or Tanker. I idea that an infantryman has no chance to escape is tank is utterly ridiculous. Currently of the three turret types one is actively designed for the anti infantry role. This being the large blaster which given its mechanic of high dispersion means in all likelihood a fair number of your shots are going to miss their intended target with inaccuracy increasing over time. Can fire up to 48 consecutive rounds before over heat kicks in and your target is gone. The Railgun is specifically not designed for direct anti infantry work and would require a fair amount of effort in order to acquire the target due to the slow horizontal traversal of the turret and its slow rate of fire and low splash damage requiring a direct hit to kill your enemy. Can fire up to 5 consecutive rounds before overheat kicks in and your target is gone. The Missile Launcher is an eclectic mix of both mechanics suffering from dispersion though maintaining a fair level of accuracy but spotty hit detection vs infantry targets. Moreover it unlike the others has a slow muzzle velocity for its missiles and slow traversal requiring a fair amount of effort to acquire the target before a publishing slow reload during which time your target can escape. The issue as I see it is that you seem to be trying to place all of the responsibility for the situation you describe on the pilot. Should not an infantryman of AVer be required to have the situational awareness I do? Should they not be using cover instead of standing in the open? Should not an AVer retreat if their situation becomes less to their advantage? Now I'm not the greatest supporter of Dusts current turrets. I don't even like them. However you are making an assertion in your post that strikes me as very biased. I'll be the first to admit I have an interest in tanks and most likely a bias, yet I am trying to provide positive and meaningful feed back to those sources presenting ideas for consideration. And I'm not even a ***** CPM. You are doing a lot of asserting here and I am not seeing anywhere in your posting any positive suggestions, any concessions, constructive feedback. Regardless of your personal opinions as a CPM you are expected to respond to threads in a mature manner. Not play tit for tat with those you don't agree with. Well said! Honestly I would suggest to posters in this thread to no engage in "forum warfare" with Soraya (take it form a vet) he's not worth your time. Instead perhaps look to guys like Pokey Dravon, Thaddeus Reynolds, and Breaking Stuff, Atiim (despite what people say he does make fair points from time to time ) and discuss your ideas with them and see how they rationalise it to you. Rattati seems to have a relatively open line in his vehicle suggestions thread or take your suggestions to a more active CPM like IWS. If it is a good idea I am sure he will consider it for discussion. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 116	Posted - 2015.01.14 00:41:00 - [237] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Atiim wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. Actually, what happened is that an AVer offered a rebuttal to your premise, than you offered a counter-argument while also claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). Then vehicle Pilots (mainly Stupid Blueberry, Toolbar Zoobar, and Spkr) decided to begin flaming your thread. The only AVers I see here is me (who only made one slightly off-topic statement), Breakin Stuff (who made only one speculation), and Soraya Xel (who was abrasive, yet still constructive). It's okay to not like AVers, but don't blame your problems on them when they're not the source. Are you just completely stupid? all the AV people who have posted on this thread have just been complete asses because they think that AV should be a million times more powerfull than a tank and are trying to keep the game boring. They did not offer a rebuttal they basically were saying im stupid and im a biased tanker and saying i have just wasted my time because im completely wrong. The pilots who have commented here have not flamed up this thread it was the AVers because they are not willing to even contemplate my ideas and just shot everything every thing down and i do not ever saying that YOU did not know what it is like to be a pilot but then again you have lost all credibility with previous posts and i have been a pilot since the early stages of the closed beta so i think i know what i am talking about. And if you think Soraya was being constructive then you do not know the meaning of the word. Do you even have a brain or is there just a hampster on a hampster wheel up there either way you are possibly with the exception Soraya the dumbest person to post here. And soraya was the one who came in here and did not even consider one of my ideas. Then let us ignore people like Soraya and continue with ideas. Would a passive skill that reduces damage from a vehicles opposing AV type by 3% for each level and a 5X so increase be a start? Thoughts?
xavier zor Rogue Instincts 402	Posted - 2015.01.14 00:48:00 - [238] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k Either this or make it so at least 2 people have to work together to take out a basic tank, 3/4 for a PRO tank when they are released lets not forget that the enemy doesn't have to run infantry to try and take out a tank, they can call in their OWN tanks and then if they kill the tanker, get their assholes opened by OP AV Official Ishokune supporter Knifed duna2002's tank, then the mercenary himself
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 116	Posted - 2015.01.14 01:16:00 - [239] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: I'm not sure if many of you were paying attention to the Dev blogs pre-beta but this might be an interesting read. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2012/03/vehicle-dev-b/ Now that's a blog posting I like!
Mex-0 292	Posted - 2015.01.14 01:21:00 - [240] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 LOL you can not even come up with a solid argument to state your point. Vehicles are not overpowered and you can not prove otherwise Remember Tank514? Every scrub like me feels the pain... Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ How do ya like my knives on my minassault? Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16571	Posted - 2015.01.14 01:29:00 - [241] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Remember Tank514? Every scrub like me feels the pain... I do. That was ******* awful for me as well as a tanker. All those skills I'd put together learning how to avoid AV, manage my module to survive, get the top tier tank content, etc was worthless. But that's not an argument for keeping vehicles in the abysmally boring state they are in. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2736	Posted - 2015.01.14 04:30:00 - [242] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Remember Tank514? What "Tank 514" are you talking about? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7038	Posted - 2015.01.14 04:54:00 - [243] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Damn Soraya, where you been all my life, bae? Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 10:45:00 - [244] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Mex-0 wrote: Remember Tank514? What "Tank 514" are you talking about? 1. 1.7 where they were 'OP' for about a month before the nerfs rolled in 2. That was pilots adapting to what CCP had given them but it was nothing like what the pilots had asked for 3. In comparision to AV the OP factor has for the majority of the time been in AV hands, Uprising 1.0 to 1.7 spanned the best part of a year if not more and that was when vehicles had more options and everything
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1783	Posted - 2015.01.14 10:48:00 - [245] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mex-0 wrote: Remember Tank514? What "Tank 514" are you talking about? 1. 1.7 where they were 'OP' for about a month before the nerfs rolled in 2. That was pilots adapting to what CCP had given them but it was nothing like what the pilots had asked for 3. In comparision to AV the OP factor has for the majority of the time been in AV hands, Uprising 1.0 to 1.7 spanned the best part of a year if not more and that was when vehicles had more options and everything actually we had tank 514 multiple times in dust history, first time it was in closed beta where those super fast sagaris tanks were driving around with 20k hitpoint, super accurate weapons which instaderped any suit on the field but we didnt had adequate AV to deal with it and the fun part is, AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6399	Posted - 2015.01.14 10:56:00 - [246] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 Um how about some constructive criticism? People may care and listen to what you have to say. That would require a premise that was worth the time it took to read it. I want my minute back. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1783	Posted - 2015.01.14 11:15:00 - [247] - Quote xavier zor wrote: KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k Either this or make it so at least 2 people have to work together to take out a basic tank, 3/4 for a PRO tank when they are released lets not forget that the enemy doesn't have to run infantry to try and take out a tank, they can call in their OWN tanks and then if they kill the tanker, get their assholes opened by OP AV this is what only CoD scrubs want (or people with similar mindset) if it requires more than a single person to fack up a tank (or use tank by yourself) you create artificial number imbalance. the team that can afford to waste more tanks on the field would simply have bigger advantage. this is not rocket science. this is simple math, -1 guy devoted to taking objectives in a tank wrecking the field, -2 guys on the other taking care of him, oh look suddenly enemy team with tank has +1 advantage unless you pick up tank yourself. result AV = useless, go tank or go home. imbalance again and binary game mechanics, none of that belong to games in this century. we already had that, we do not want that. if you want it, go play world of tanks and enjoy your arcade style tank gameplay.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 251	Posted - 2015.01.14 11:53:00 - [248] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: this is what only CoD scrubs want (or people with similar mindset) if it requires more than a single person to fack up a tank (or use tank by yourself) you create artificial number imbalance. the team that can afford to waste more tanks on the field would simply have bigger advantage. this is not rocket science. this is simple math, -1 guy devoted to taking objectives in a tank wrecking the field, -2 guys on the other taking care of him, oh look suddenly enemy team with tank has +1 advantage unless you pick up tank yourself. result AV = useless, go tank or go home. imbalance again and binary game mechanics, none of that belong to games in this century. we already had that, we do not want that. if you want it, go play world of tanks and enjoy your arcade style tank gameplay. but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1783	Posted - 2015.01.14 11:57:00 - [249] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear except the tank can mess up any attempt of your team to hack unless the point is specifically not accessible by the tank. and to be honest, while many people whine about the large blaster not being good, after testing I found it wrecks infantry at close range as good as before.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 251	Posted - 2015.01.14 12:46:00 - [250] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear if a tank is only for AV what is the point of a tank if it cannot be used as force multiplier? just to cruise around, destroy some installations and do nothing the rest of the game? Deny enemy mobility through destroying LAVs and Dropships Add small turrets for AI, and the infantry AV battle becomes 2 v 2

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1784	Posted - 2015.01.14 12:56:00 - [251] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear if a tank is only for AV what is the point of a tank if it cannot be used as force multiplier? just to cruise around, destroy some installations and do nothing the rest of the game? Deny enemy mobility through destroying LAVs and Dropships Add small turrets for AI, and the infantry AV battle becomes 2 v 2 does not really work out with limited turret elevation, even worse, the dropship will hover over you and destroy your tank with small rails and with your approach AV wont be able to deal with the dropship because AV will be pointless. and LAV is simply to fast to keep up with turret turn speed.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 12:59:00 - [252] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mex-0 wrote: Remember Tank514? What "Tank 514" are you talking about? 1. 1.7 where they were 'OP' for about a month before the nerfs rolled in 2. That was pilots adapting to what CCP had given them but it was nothing like what the pilots had asked for 3. In comparision to AV the OP factor has for the majority of the time been in AV hands, Uprising 1.0 to 1.7 spanned the best part of a year if not more and that was when vehicles had more options and everything actually we had tank 514 multiple times in dust history, first time it was in closed beta where those super fast sagaris tanks were driving around with 20k hitpoint, super accurate weapons which instaderped any suit on the field but we didnt had adequate AV to deal with it and the fun part is, AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry 1. AV was adequate but no one wanted to skill in to it and that was always the case, no one wanted to go AV so vehicles were left to do what they wanted
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1784	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:04:00 - [253] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mex-0 wrote: Remember Tank514? What "Tank 514" are you talking about? 1. 1.7 where they were 'OP' for about a month before the nerfs rolled in 2. That was pilots adapting to what CCP had given them but it was nothing like what the pilots had asked for 3. In comparision to AV the OP factor has for the majority of the time been in AV hands, Uprising 1.0 to 1.7 spanned the best part of a year if not more and that was when vehicles had more options and everything actually we had tank 514 multiple times in dust history, first time it was in closed beta where those super fast sagaris tanks were driving around with 20k hitpoint, super accurate weapons which instaderped any suit on the field but we didnt had adequate AV to deal with it and the fun part is, AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry 1. AV was adequate but no one wanted to skill in to it and that was always the case, no one wanted to go AV so vehicles were left to do what they wanted shooting for 30 seconds at a standing still sagaris was in no way adequate. beside that it would not stands till and was as fast as current LAVs
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 251	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:08:00 - [254] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear if a tank is only for AV what is the point of a tank if it cannot be used as force multiplier? just to cruise around, destroy some installations and do nothing the rest of the game? Deny enemy mobility through destroying LAVs and Dropships Add small turrets for AI, and the infantry AV battle becomes 2 v 2 does not really work out with limited turret elevation, even worse, the dropship will hover over you and destroy your tank with small rails and with your approach AV wont be able to deal with the dropship because AV will be pointless. and LAV is simply to fast to keep up with turret turn speed. That's the ADS working as intended Use blasters against LAVs
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1784	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:12:00 - [255] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear if a tank is only for AV what is the point of a tank if it cannot be used as force multiplier? just to cruise around, destroy some installations and do nothing the rest of the game? Deny enemy mobility through destroying LAVs and Dropships Add small turrets for AI, and the infantry AV battle becomes 2 v 2 does not really work out with limited turret elevation, even worse, the dropship will hover over you and destroy your tank with small rails and with your approach AV wont be able to deal with the dropship because AV will be pointless. and LAV is simply to fast to keep up with turret turn speed. That's the ADS working as intended Use blasters against LAVs you havent used vehicles, didnt you ?
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:31:00 - [256] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: shooting for 30 seconds at a standing still sagaris was in no way adequate. beside that it would not stands till and was as fast as current LAVs 1. Yea militia AV does that 2. You want vehicle pilots to stay still now? 3. I remember the days where GAC would nearly alpha me with 3 specced AV, they never gave up 4. Fast as a LAV? not anymore unless you have a nitro on and since they are slower now you get more time to shoot at them aswell as broken SL still going around 3 corners
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 106	Posted - 2015.01.14 15:32:00 - [257] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: xavier zor wrote: KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k Either this or make it so at least 2 people have to work together to take out a basic tank, 3/4 for a PRO tank when they are released lets not forget that the enemy doesn't have to run infantry to try and take out a tank, they can call in their OWN tanks and then if they kill the tanker, get their assholes opened by OP AV this is what only CoD scrubs want (or people with similar mindset) if it requires more than a single person to fack up a tank (or use tank by yourself) you create artificial number imbalance. the team that can afford to waste more tanks on the field would simply have bigger advantage. this is not rocket science. this is simple math, -1 guy devoted to taking objectives in a tank wrecking the field, -2 guys on the other taking care of him, oh look suddenly enemy team with tank has +1 advantage unless you pick up tank yourself. result AV = useless, go tank or go home. imbalance again and binary game mechanics, none of that belong to games in this century. we already had that, we do not want that. if you want it, go play world of tanks and enjoy your arcade style tank gameplay. Well you're wrong. If it takes more then 2 guys to take down a tank that's balance. Again the tank can't hide behind cover and is a much bigger and easier to hit. And your logic here is that the team that can afford to call in the most tanks has the advantage. Yeah I agree. Definatly. Although the same also applies to how much a player is spending on his/her suit. The team that can afford to waste the most on proto suits also has an advantage. Ultimately a team will always have an "unfair" advantage over their opponents if said team can afford to spend more isk than the other team. That's the nature if this game weather you like it or not. Specialization: Making typo's.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1467	Posted - 2015.01.14 15:39:00 - [258] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: hold that wrote: [quote=Ld Collins]The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. Players who did not know how to counter tanks swore up and down that tanks are op and the wave of nerfs just kept coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1 I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I watched an infantry player kill 60 other infantry players, this is a kdr for all infantry of 1:1. This is the very definition of balance, although if we break it down each component if a fit may be imbalanced. The problem is not tankers going 30-0, the problem is when the tanker kills 30 infantry, there is no corresponding 30 tanker deaths, this is the very definition of imbalanced. Unfortunately, a 1:1 kdr between tankers and infantry is completely unacceptable to tankers, they believe that they are entitled to a much higher ratio. What do you think a fair KDR average for ALL tankers should be? We really can't go much farther in reaching an agreement about balance until we have a common understanding of what that means. It's pretty obvious to me that you have a problem understanding what you read. At a time where tankers were racking up 20 plus kills people came on the forum and begged ccp to nerf tanks. Even though if a tanker were to go 20+ or 30+ in killsthe tanker would not have made enough isk to cover 1 tank and if he died it would be a loss. Tanks were extremely expensive in there golden days now they are just coffins on wheels. If your team lets a tank get over 10 kills in a match its your teams fault its not that tanks are op. For tanks to make money they have to kill high vallue targets other tanks dropships because killing infantry does not pay the bills. You're flat out wrong to say that there is no balance there. 1-1 more like 20-1 if you blow up 4 tanks in a match with your tank you can make a profit tack on some installations and a few infantry then you've got a decient profit. So your answer is that you think a 20:1 KDR for tankers is balanced. Because, that's why.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1788	Posted - 2015.01.14 15:39:00 - [259] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Well you're wrong. If it takes more then 2 guys to take down a tank that's balance. Again the tank can't hide behind cover and is a much bigger and easier to hit. "hey it is balance because I say so, without any arguments, because I dont need them" Toobar Zoobar wrote: And your logic here is that the team that can afford to call in the most tanks has the advantage. Yeah I agree. Definatly. Although the same also applies to how much a player is spending on his/her suit. The team that can afford to waste the most on proto suits also has an advantage. it is not about isk spend, what about "binary gameplay" & "AV is left in dust" is hard to understand? having everyone required to be skilled into tanks to counter tanks is not balanced. deal with it. Nothing Certain wrote: So your answer is that you think a 20:1 KDR for tankers is balanced. his answer actually is, that he thinks that it is okay for a tank to take 30 seconds of continous fire and drive away while netting him 20:1 KDR. prime example of CoD mentality.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 106	Posted - 2015.01.14 15:43:00 - [260] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Well you're wrong. If it takes more then 2 guys to take down a tank that's balance. Again the tank can't hide behind cover and is a much bigger and easier to hit. "hey it is balance because I say so, without any arguments, because I dont need them" Toobar Zoobar wrote: And your logic here is that the team that can afford to call in the most tanks has the advantage. Yeah I agree. Definatly. Although the same also applies to how much a player is spending on his/her suit. The team that can afford to waste the most on proto suits also has an advantage. it is not about isk spend, what about "binary gameplay" & "AV is left in dust" is hard to understand? having everyone required to be skilled into tanks to counter tanks is not balanced. deal with it. Well again if cost is intended to be irrelevant why do people choose to spend tons of isk on proto suits instead of just using starter fits? Specialization: Making typo's.

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1789	Posted - 2015.01.14 15:49:00 - [261] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Well again if cost is intended to be irrelevant why do people choose to spend tons of isk on proto suits instead of just using starter fits? you are funneled into cost too much, I couldnt care less about isk. I have enough isk to run proto suits for my lifetime and even if I didnt, there are certain playstyles that allow me to stay alive all game without dying, again allowing me to run full proto forever. what I do however care is what I skill into. SP is the most precious ressource in this game, it allows me to determine my own playstyles and run whatever I decide to skill into IF I WANT TO. I do not want to be forced to skill into something just to be able to enjoy the game because otherwise herp derp tank ruins my day and I have no other way to deal with it efficiently except for using a tank myself (or the other solution would be to run an AV squad and lose the game because we didnt had enough bodies on the field that can fight back). maybe I do not enjoy tanks at all? why should I be forced to use them? just because some CoD kids want to run 20/0 every game with them? no thanks. in no way having 2+ persons to deal with tanks as requirement is balanced or good for the game. and to answer your question: people use proto stuff because it gives them sense of progression, improvement and achievements, otherwise you could just aswell play Bf, counter strike or unreal tournament.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 106	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:37:00 - [262] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Well again if cost is intended to be irrelevant why do people choose to spend tons of isk on proto suits instead of just using starter fits? you are funneled into cost too much, I couldnt care less about isk. I have enough isk to run proto suits for my lifetime and even if I didnt, there are certain playstyles that allow me to stay alive all game without dying, again allowing me to run full proto forever. what I do however care is what I skill into. SP is the most precious ressource in this game, it allows me to determine my own playstyles and run whatever I decide to skill into IF I WANT TO. I do not want to be forced to skill into something just to be able to enjoy the game because otherwise herp derp tank ruins my day and I have no other way to deal with it efficiently except for using a tank myself (or the other solution would be to run an AV squad and lose the game because we didnt had enough bodies on the field that can fight back). maybe I do not enjoy tanks at all? why should I be forced to use them? just because some CoD kids want to run 20/0 every game with them? no thanks. in no way having 2+ persons to deal with tanks as requirement is balanced or good for the game. and to answer your question: people use proto stuff because it gives them sense of progression, improvement and achievements, otherwise you could just aswell play Bf, counter strike or unreal tournament. You do make a good point. Isk tends to be a resource most of us don't have to worry about these days. I myself have about 73 mil. It's been that way for a while now. I tend to gain as much isk as Iose. There isn't much else to spend it on. It is worth bearing in mind however that this is not by design. ISK in this game should have functioned and been as relevant as ISK in EVE. ISK as it stands is only functioning as a minor incentive to die less. ISK as it should be would allow for a deep risk vs. reward dynamic to the game. If my team is being beaten back by a group of players that are using better gear than mine and there does not seem to be a way for my team to turn that game around, well then there should always be that extra gear available. I should have the option of a using a very costly asset in the form of a proto tier 2 HAV to try and compensate for my teams lack of either skills or lack of willing to take bigger risks with their wallet. That's what could make this game very deep, very interesting and very unpredictable on a match to match bases. Taking that dynamic away will be dumbing the game down and making all the matches very samey. Which is what has pretty much already happened. And on a side note... tanks ruin your day boo ******* hoo. Why the hell should I care about that. That has nothing to do with balancing just you sucking. I can't remember the last time I was killed by a tank as an infantry. If you can't deal with tanks go play ambush at least you have that option. Specialization: Making typo's.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2740	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:44:00 - [263] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry So it wasn't fair that infantry was complaining that what was supposed to be an AV weapon was being used as a far-too overpowered AI weapon? Don't let your brain explode from trying to wrap your brain around that. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1789	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:45:00 - [264] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: You do make a good point. Isk tends to be a resource most of us don't have to worry about these days. I myself have about 73 mil. It's been that way for a while now. I tend to gain as much isk as Iose. There isn't much else to spend it on. And on a side note... tanks ruin your day boo ***** hoo. Why the hell should I care about that. That has nothing to do with balancing just you sucking. I can't remember the last time I was killed by a tank as an infantry. If you can't deal with tanks go play ambush at least you have that option. first, I never said they ruin my day but they will ruin everyones day if 2+ or tank is the requirement of taking down one. second, people with alot of isk are a minority of this game. most of them are people from closed beta or from lag conquest or some no lifers that farmed it all day (in which case they deserve it imho). the average player I met ingame usually farms isk in pubs, then use some proto stuff in FW for a single match, they can in no way sustain going full proto forever. Spkr4theDead wrote: Jack McReady wrote:** AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry So it wasn't fair that infantry was complaining that what was supposed to be an AV weapon was being used as a far-too overpowered AI weapon? Don't let your brain explode from trying to wrap your brain around that. well that was 2012 in closed beta and it was fixed shortly after by a bandaid vehicle nerf. it was basically the start of the evil nerf buff circle as we currently have.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2740	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:53:00 - [265] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: it was fair to complain and fix it but it wasnt fair that the AV capabities were cut down too. What AV capabilities were cut down? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1790	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:53:00 - [266] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Jack McReady wrote: it was fair to complain and fix it but it wasnt fair that the AV capabities were cut down too. What AV capabilities were cut down? you werent in closed beta 2012?
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 106	Posted - 2015.01.14 17:17:00 - [267] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: You do make a good point. Isk tends to be a resource most of us don't have to worry about these days. I myself have about 73 mil. It's been that way for a while now. I tend to gain as much isk as Iose. There isn't much else to spend it on. And on a side note... tanks ruin your day boo ***** hoo. Why the hell should I care about that. That has nothing to do with balancing just you sucking. I can't remember the last time I was killed by a tank as an infantry. If you can't deal with tanks go play ambush at least you have that option. first, I never said they ruin my day but they will ruin everyones day if 2+ or tank is the requirement of taking down one. second, people with alot of isk are a minority of this game. most of them are people from closed beta or from lag conquest or some no lifers that farmed it all day (in which case they deserve it imho). the average player I met ingame usually farms isk in pubs, then use some proto stuff in FW for a single match, they can in no way sustain going full proto forever. Spkr4theDead wrote:** So it wasn't fair that infantry was complaining that what was supposed to be an AV weapon was being used as a far-too overpowered AI weapon? Don't let your brain explode from trying to wrap your brain around that. it was fair to complain and fix it but it wasnt fair that the AV capabities were cut down too. Well you've failed to stage a rebuttal to the bulk of what I said. Specialization: Making typo's.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 252	Posted - 2015.01.14 18:10:00 - [268] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: you havent used vehicles, did you ? Lol, you're right, I'm just a tyre kicker
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 300	Posted - 2015.01.14 18:37:00 - [269] - Quote xavier zor wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. you should. A tank is a tank. A mercenary is a mercenary. Your view is so one-minded and skewed, just express your hate for tanks some other way. A single-repped madrugar should be able to withstand a constant swarmer Soraya Xel wrote: The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. If you lose 5-6 suits, you are doing it wrong.... and besides, how fun is it to an ADS pilot who can get maybe 1-2 kills before a swarmer notices him, and he has to retreat? Don't forget the bloody redline railguns/railtanks that one-shot my python, 2 shot my incubus (as in, i get shot once, knocked around then by the time i stabilize and start thrusting upwards he has launched his second shot and i'm dead) So.... a single rep madruger should be able to withstand a swarmer? Madrugers can fit 3 reppers, so you are basically telling me it should take 4 players with AV to kill a madruger? Do you actually believe this? As to your "how fun is it to an ADS pilot yadda yadda": How much fun do you think that swarmer is having to scramble around trying not to have his ass handed to him by all the other infantry? Hes already had his not-fun, now he sees a vehicle and its time for HIM to have fun, and time for the ADS to have not-fun. I dont know where this myth comes from that AV fits are some kind of ninja ghost assassin fit who can easily avoid all threats and kill vehicles by looking at them. The reality is that they spend the entire game dodging or fending off or dying to infantry all the while hoping some vehicle will stop by that he can shoot at. And he probably wont be able to kill it unless that vehicle makes alot of mistakes. Even if AVers have the freedom to actively pursue a vehicle across the map, the most likely event is that the vehicle will not die and will still make some kills, it will just be slightly limited in effectiveness by the threat the AV guy represents. When I play my vehicle alt, I am nearly never killed by anything but a tank, its just too easy to stay alive against anything else because mobility and killing power is so incredibly skewed toward the vehicle. If you are dying alot to AV and you are good it means there is a ton of AV, and if you are dying alot to single AV players, then you just ******* suck.
MetalWolf-Cell ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 24	Posted - 2015.01.14 18:57:00 - [270] - Quote Okay, This thread is coming sickening. All of this talk about tankers trying to become OP without any thought of actually reading in between the lines. Yes they may sound radical and sort of delusional at most but here is the thing: They don't want to be OP...they want to be, here it comes...USEFUL! not paper mache coffins that are nothing but food for AV war points. It will be disheartening to see a tank survive only for 10 seconds because there happens to be one guy sitting 100m away bunny hopping like a mad man. I'm pretty sure that would be frustrating. Every time a vehicle happens lay out a suggestion or a though and put it on the forums. there has to be one guy or multiple that cries out wolf and say "he just wants to be invincible." ummm...no. what he doesn't want is to feel that his role is to be a pinata. and the whole unbalanced thing about 2 man against one tank...how? it's two people killing a tank, it equals out because it kills the vehicle QUICKER. I've seen squads of AV take out tanks left and right. The same squad. There is no hidden multiplier that just because there is 3 tanks on the field, magically there has to be 9 AV to take them out. If you let a tank just mow people down....It's your fault. You allow that pilot to go rampant on your team without doing any counter. you don't even have to kill him, you can just deny him by shooting him. he will have to constantly be in cover. Yes, Chromosome tanks were OP back in the days. But we don't have them do we? we now have vanilla tanks that have monotonous fits that are clearly boring. Again, there is no secret multiplier, the same 3 man squad can take out multiple tanks, if they are coordinated enough. If this is a team based game, there should at least be SOME teamwork involved. Why is it a problem for a tanker to GOD FORBID do great? is he suppose to go 3/9? or 2/14? is that all he can do as a tanker? he can't preform well than his infantry counterpart, who can easily go 45-3? It's getting ridiculous to see this wicked notion that apparently vehicle users just want invincibility or just want AV to be bad. they want to be useful. They want to at least know they can do what they like to do without being 2 shot. It's almost a sin to be a pilot now. /rant Anyways, Vehicles need a role, as said in multiple threads. There needs to be something to do that like as suggested shooting a null cannon for a shut down, or some sort of vehicle only objective. and AV needs to at least have a tweak to still maintain it's punch while still being fair for pilots. DUST 514/LEGION

Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 107	Posted - 2015.01.14 19:29:00 - [271] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: xavier zor wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. you should. A tank is a tank. A mercenary is a mercenary. Your view is so one-minded and skewed, just express your hate for tanks some other way. A single-repped madrugar should be able to withstand a constant swarmer Soraya Xel wrote: The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. If you lose 5-6 suits, you are doing it wrong.... and besides, how fun is it to an ADS pilot who can get maybe 1-2 kills before a swarmer notices him, and he has to retreat? Don't forget the bloody redline railguns/railtanks that one-shot my python, 2 shot my incubus (as in, i get shot once, knocked around then by the time i stabilize and start thrusting upwards he has launched his second shot and i'm dead) So.... a single rep madruger should be able to withstand a swarmer? Madrugers can fit 3 reppers, so you are basically telling me it should take 4 players with AV to kill a madruger? Do you actually believe this? As to your "how fun is it to an ADS pilot yadda yadda": How much fun do you think that swarmer is having while hes scrambling around trying not to have his ass handed to him by all the other infantry? Hes already had his not-fun, now he sees a vehicle and its time for HIM to have fun, and time for the ADS to have not-fun. I dont know where this myth comes from that AV fits are some kind of ninja ghost assassin fit who can easily avoid all threats and kill vehicles by looking at them. The reality is that they spend the entire game dodging or fending off or dying to infantry all the while hoping some vehicle will stop by that he can shoot at. And he probably wont be able to kill it unless that vehicle makes alot of mistakes. Even if AVers have the freedom to actively pursue a vehicle across the map, the most likely event is that the vehicle will not die and will still make some kills, it will just be slightly limited in effectiveness by the threat the AV guy represents. When I play my vehicle alt, I am nearly never killed by anything but a tank, its just too easy to stay alive against anything else because mobility and killing power is so incredibly skewed toward the vehicle. If you are dying alot to AV and you are good it means there is a ton of AV, and if you are dying alot to single AV players, then you just ******* suck. "When an AVer sees an ADS it's time for him to have fun and the pilot to have not fun". This is why I have so little respect for so many of you AV fanatics. You keep throwing BS like this at the argument. No fight? No options for the ADS pilot? He just has to take some damage, give AV ass some easy points, then fly away? Ridiculous. And this is a point I have made before. It should NEVER be about the kill. How can you demand that you should be able to kill the 500,000isk 9000 HP HAV with ease? What the hell is the point of a tank if it can't be a tank?! It's just BS after BS after BS. You complain that they kill infantry to well. You complain that they can rep too fast. And now you complain that they have the ability to retreat and that prevents you from getting the oh so over rated kill. **** K/D. Specialization: Making typo's.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16578	Posted - 2015.01.14 19:53:00 - [272] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: "When an AVer sees an ADS it's time for him to have fun and the pilot to have not fun". This is why I have so little respect for so many of you AV fanatics. You keep throwing BS like this at the argument. No fight? No options for the ADS pilot? He just has to take some damage, give AV ass some easy points, then fly away? Ridiculous. And this is a point I have made before. It should NEVER be about the kill. How can you demand that you should be able to kill the 500,000isk 9000 HP HAV with ease? What the hell is the point of a tank if it can't be a tank?! It's just BS after BS after BS. You complain that they kill infantry to well. You complain that they can rep too fast. And now you complain that they have the ability to retreat and that prevents you from getting the oh so over rated kill. **** K/D. But mate you cannot expect another player to be responsible for your own enjoyment of the game. It's not their responsibility. They are using established in game mechanics to achieve their desired goal which is ideally the destruction of the vehicle they are targeting. Just like an infantryman should never expect you to be responsible for their enjoyment of the game. It is likely that no matter what multiplayer game you play or how you are ruining someone's experience. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 300	Posted - 2015.01.14 20:18:00 - [273] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: xavier zor wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. you should. A tank is a tank. A mercenary is a mercenary. Your view is so one-minded and skewed, just express your hate for tanks some other way. A single-repped madrugar should be able to withstand a constant swarmer Soraya Xel wrote: The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. If you lose 5-6 suits, you are doing it wrong.... and besides, how fun is it to an ADS pilot who can get maybe 1-2 kills before a swarmer notices him, and he has to retreat? Don't forget the bloody redline railguns/railtanks that one-shot my python, 2 shot my incubus (as in, i get shot once, knocked around then by the time i stabilize and start thrusting upwards he has launched his second shot and i'm dead) So.... a single rep madruger should be able to withstand a swarmer? Madrugers can fit 3 reppers, so you are basically telling me it should take 4 players with AV to kill a madruger? Do you actually believe this? As to your "how fun is it to an ADS pilot yadda yadda": How much fun do you think that swarmer is having while hes scrambling around trying not to have his ass handed to him by all the other infantry? Hes already had his not-fun, now he sees a vehicle and its time for HIM to have fun, and time for the ADS to have not-fun. I dont know where this myth comes from that AV fits are some kind of ninja ghost assassin fit who can easily avoid all threats and kill vehicles by looking at them. The reality is that they spend the entire game dodging or fending off or dying to infantry all the while hoping some vehicle will stop by that he can shoot at. And he probably wont be able to kill it unless that vehicle makes alot of mistakes. Even if AVers have the freedom to actively pursue a vehicle across the map, the most likely event is that the vehicle will not die and will still make some kills, it will just be slightly limited in effectiveness by the threat the AV guy represents. When I play my vehicle alt, I am nearly never killed by anything but a tank, its just too easy to stay alive against anything else because mobility and killing power is so incredibly skewed toward the vehicle. If you are dying alot to AV and you are good it means there is a ton of AV, and if you are dying alot to single AV players, then you just ******* suck. "When an AVer sees an ADS it's time for him to have fun and the pilot to have not fun". This is why I have so little respect for so many of you AV fanatics. You keep throwing BS like this at the argument. No fight? No options for the ADS pilot? He just has to take some damage, give AV ass some easy points, then fly away? Ridiculous. And this is a point I have made before. It should NEVER be about the kill. How can you demand that you should be able to kill the 500,000isk 9000 HP HAV with ease? What the hell is the point of a tank if it can't be a tank?! It's just BS after BS after BS. You complain that they kill infantry to well. You complain that they can rep too fast. And now you complain that they have the ability to retreat and that prevents you from getting the oh so over rated kill. ** K/D. I don't care about K/D. I'm not an AV fanatic. I hate using AV because its and ineffective. I hate using vehicles because they are boring. I also dont care much about WP, so talking about how vehicles are win point pinatas doesnt really get alot of sympathy with me, and implying that firing swarm launchers at an ADS is somehow "easy points" when the ADS could kick the out of the swarmer if the pilot had any skill at all and ignoring the rest of the AV players experience where they constantly get on by other infantry also isnt going to get you any sympathy. As for no options for the ADS pilot, I'd love to see flare modules and ** like that, but Im not a developer, so when I talk about balance in this game I talk about how things are NOW, not how things are in some mythical magical fairy land where everything is fun and balanced already. The fact is that vehicles are way too hard to kill with an AV fit, and vehicles are way too expensive to engage in risky play. I'd love to see vehicles being more disposable. Lower ISK prices so they are comparable to dropsuits, rebalance so that AV is more effective, remove swarm launcher lock on crap and give me some AV that requires aim, and you have more fun for both sides. Now tanks and drop ships can be killed, but arent so expensive that you cant afford to lose them, now you have AV that works, and is actually able to kill the thing its designed to kill. More fun for everyone. P.S. "What the hell is the point of a tank if it can't be a tank?!" Quick aside to address this misconception: tanks are not invincible. In reality the main battle tank is a pretty fragile piece of equipment, it is largely immune to small arms fire, however weapons designed to destroy tanks exist and are incredibly effective unless there is a huge disparity in technology level (e.g. cold war era RPG vs. modern abrams tank). I'm not sure where this expectation of being stupidly resistant to damage, even damage coming from weapons that exist solely to kill vehicles comes from, but I dont think its a good expectation and its a horrible one from a balancing standpoint.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16578	Posted - 2015.01.14 21:15:00 - [274] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: I don't care about K/D. I'm not an AV fanatic. I hate using AV because its ** and ineffective. I hate using vehicles because they are boring. I also dont care much about WP, so talking about how vehicles are win point pinatas doesnt really get alot of sympathy with me, and implying that firing swarm launchers at an ADS is somehow "easy points" when the ADS could kick the out of the swarmer if the pilot had any skill at all and ignoring the rest of the AV players experience where they constantly get on by other infantry also isnt going to get you any sympathy. As for no options for the ADS pilot, I'd love to see flare modules and ** like that, but Im not a developer, so when I talk about balance in this game I talk about how things are NOW, not how things are in some mythical magical fairy land where everything is fun and balanced already. The fact is that vehicles are way too hard to kill with an AV fit, and vehicles are way too expensive to engage in risky play. I'd love to see vehicles being more disposable. Lower ISK prices so they are comparable to dropsuits, rebalance so that AV is more effective, remove swarm launcher lock on crap and give me some AV that requires aim, and you have more fun for both sides. Now tanks and drop ships can be killed, but arent so expensive that you cant afford to lose them, now you have AV that works, and is actually able to kill the thing its designed to kill. More fun for everyone. P.S. "What the hell is the point of a tank if it can't be a tank?!" Quick aside to address this misconception: tanks are not invincible. In reality the main battle tank is a pretty fragile piece of equipment, it is largely immune to small arms fire, however weapons designed to destroy tanks exist and are incredibly effective unless there is a huge disparity in technology level (e.g. cold war era RPG vs. modern abrams tank). I'm not sure where this expectation of being stupidly resistant to damage, even damage coming from weapons that exist solely to kill vehicles comes from, but I dont think its a good expectation and its a horrible one from a balancing standpoint. "In reality the main battle tank is a pretty fragile piece of equipment, it is largely immune to small arms fire, however weapons designed to destroy tanks exist and are incredibly effective unless there is a huge disparity in technology level" Now I'm not disputing this isn't true. Tanks CAN be very fragile depending on which sections they are hit in, from what angle, with what kind of explosive charge, and from what range since there are a huge number of variables that adjust armour penetration values. However I don't then think I'd be far wrong in suggesting that everything on a battlefield can and will kill and infantryman. I don't say this to play tit for tat since its pointless to do so but you do need to keep it in context. HAV in Dust are not tanks. They do not function in the same role and are not equipped with the same types of weapons. The High Explosive RPG Tandem HEAT warhead can penetrate up to 750mm of rolled homogenous armour with the SMAW HEAA rocket is thought to have roughly 600mm of penetrative power under the same circumstances. Even the TOW small variants of the TOW warhead are thought to have penetrative values of 430,630, and 900mm on their successive BGD-71 B-D designs. The Effective armour values on an Abrams varies depending on the round fired at it. HEAT rounds are less effective as compared to Discarding Sabot rounds and also vary on where the tank is hit. The turret in this case typically is less armoured than the hull and against HEAT rounds if I am not mistaken the Turret has an effective 600-650mm of Plating and the hull has an effective 800-900mm of plating. During testing of armour penetration values of APFSDS rounds an Abrams could resist shots to the forward hull and turret as well as the side of the turret, though suffered armour penetrations against the side and rear armour of their tanks. Comparatively the Armour Piercing Capabilities of a Discarding Sabot Round and an HEAT are vast. Again this does not suggest that infantry based anti tank guns cannot destroy tanks only that it's likely not as simple as you put it and is based on a much large number of factors than are accounted for in Dust 514 including the arbitrarily limited ranges of our turrets, the lack on actually main battle cannons with high explosive single shot rounds, coaxial turrets, etc. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 302	Posted - 2015.01.14 21:37:00 - [275] - Quote True Adamance wrote: However I don't then think I'd be far wrong in suggesting that everything on a battlefield can and will kill and infantryman. Everything except the swarm launcher can kill an infantryman on the dust battlefield, and the swarm cant only because of lock on requirement to fire, I have no problem with this fact and I dont think many people do, so Im not sure how this sentence informs dust balance or this discussion. True Adamance wrote: I don't say this to play tit for tat since its pointless to do so but you do need to keep it in context. HAV in Dust are not tanks. They do not function in the same role and are not equipped with the same types of weapons. In dust they seem to function either as mobile artillery, close infantry support (more similar to an APC without much carrying capacity with a cannon than an MBT), or as an actual tank (penetration of enemy lines and exploitation thereof). As mobile artillery they are extremely effective, as close infantry support they are very effective if used properly (if the pilot doesnt feed himself to AV they can sit there and support infantry all day), and as a MBT it isnt super effective because using it in this manner exposes you to a ton of risk (actively pushing into enemy AV and other tanks) and there are no supply lines/soft targets you can hit in the rear to really affect the battle and the front lines are rarely "lines" in any sense in the first place. True Adamance wrote: blah blah blah scooby doo where are youdly scoodly doo I deleted the rest and Ill just reply to it all saying it would be really cool having an accurate damage model of armor vs. incoming penetrators to play with in this game. If I could expect to take a plasma cannon and stuff it up a HAVs ass and kill it in one shot, I would be fine with the front end of those tanks being largely invincible. However with the mechanics in play today, the HAVs are way too hard to kill from any angle and it just makes AV feel absolutely worthless unless the HAV pilot is or is acting like a moron. And again I have experienced this from both sides, I use vehicles and AV, Im not trying to **** on one party or the other, Im trying to make a discussion/environment where both can have some actual fun. Right now vehicles are boring and AV is crap.
drop the ship Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.01.14 21:39:00 - [276] - Quote i thenk dat taynks r nt vary gud rite naow becuz thay kin di if taynks don di thay wud b gud
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16578	Posted - 2015.01.14 22:07:00 - [277] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: However I don't then think I'd be far wrong in suggesting that everything on a battlefield can and will kill and infantryman. Everything except the swarm launcher can kill an infantryman on the dust battlefield, and the swarm cant only because of lock on requirement to fire, I have no problem with this fact and I dont think many people do, so Im not sure how this sentence informs dust balance or this discussion. True Adamance wrote: I don't say this to play tit for tat since its pointless to do so but you do need to keep it in context. HAV in Dust are not tanks. They do not function in the same role and are not equipped with the same types of weapons. In dust they seem to function either as mobile artillery, close infantry support (more similar to an APC without much carrying capacity with a cannon than an MBT), or as an actual tank (penetration of enemy lines and exploitation thereof). As mobile artillery they are extremely effective, as close infantry support they are very effective if used properly (if the pilot doesnt feed himself to AV they can sit there and support infantry all day), and as a MBT it isnt super effective because using it in this manner exposes you to a ton of risk (actively pushing into enemy AV and other tanks) and there are no supply lines/soft targets you can hit in the rear to really affect the battle and the front lines are rarely "lines" in any sense in the first place. True Adamance wrote: blah blah blah scooby doo where are youdly scoodly doo I deleted the rest and Ill just reply to it all saying it would be really cool having an accurate damage model of armor vs. incoming penetrators to play with in this game. If I could expect to take a plasma cannon and stuff it up a HAVs ass and kill it in one shot, I would be fine with the front end of those tanks being largely invincible. However with the mechanics in play today, the HAVs are way too hard to kill from any angle and it just makes AV feel absolutely worthless unless the HAV pilot is or is acting like a moron. And again I have experienced this from both sides, I use vehicles and AV, Im not trying to ** on one party or the other, Im trying to make a discussion/environment where both can have some actual fun. Right now vehicles are boring and AV is crap. Edited to add: RE: mobile artillery usage, it would be really cool if there was an indirect fire turret available, to lob some kind of explosive round into an area. Might be hell to balance though. Mobile Artillery? Tank Guns don't have noticeable splash damage so I'm not sure how can they bombard anything without considerable luck or ***** great aim. Certainly one of the things I like about BF4 (and I never thought I'd say this) is that they allow me to chose an Ammo type. That can be HEAT, AP, and Sabot which have varying muzzle velocities and explosive/AV profiles. I personally like Sabots for their high muzzle velocity and the HMG for any pesky infantry that gets too close. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Mex-0 304	Posted - 2015.01.14 22:35:00 - [278] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: However I don't then think I'd be far wrong in suggesting that everything on a battlefield can and will kill and infantryman. Everything except the swarm launcher can kill an infantryman on the dust battlefield, and the swarm cant only because of lock on requirement to fire, I have no problem with this fact and I dont think many people do, so Im not sure how this sentence informs dust balance or this discussion. True Adamance wrote: I don't say this to play tit for tat since its pointless to do so but you do need to keep it in context. HAV in Dust are not tanks. They do not function in the same role and are not equipped with the same types of weapons. In dust they seem to function either as mobile artillery, close infantry support (more similar to an APC without much carrying capacity with a cannon than an MBT), or as an actual tank (penetration of enemy lines and exploitation thereof). As mobile artillery they are extremely effective, as close infantry support they are very effective if used properly (if the pilot doesnt feed himself to AV they can sit there and support infantry all day), and as a MBT it isnt super effective because using it in this manner exposes you to a ton of risk (actively pushing into enemy AV and other tanks) and there are no supply lines/soft targets you can hit in the rear to really affect the battle and the front lines are rarely "lines" in any sense in the first place. True Adamance wrote: blah blah blah scooby doo where are youdly scoodly doo I deleted the rest and Ill just reply to it all saying it would be really cool having an accurate damage model of armor vs. incoming penetrators to play with in this game. If I could expect to take a plasma cannon and stuff it up a HAVs ass and kill it in one shot, I would be fine with the front end of those tanks being largely invincible. However with the mechanics in play today, the HAVs are way too hard to kill from any angle and it just makes AV feel absolutely worthless unless the HAV pilot is or is acting like a moron. And again I have experienced this from both sides, I use vehicles and AV, Im not trying to ** on one party or the other, Im trying to make a discussion/environment where both can have some actual fun. Right now vehicles are boring and AV is crap. Edited to add: RE: mobile artillery usage, it would be really cool if there was an indirect fire turret available, to lob some kind of explosive round into an area. Might be hell to balance though. Mobile Artillery? Tank Guns don't have noticeable splash damage so I'm not sure how can they bombard anything without considerable luck or ***** great aim. Certainly one of the things I like about BF4 (and I never thought I'd say this) is that they allow me to chose an Ammo type. That can be HEAT, AP, and Sabot which have varying muzzle velocities and explosive/AV profiles. I personally like Sabots for their high muzzle velocity and the HMG for any pesky infantry that gets too close. Apparently the Rail turrets used to have or currently have some splash damage, which didn't really make sense since rail weapons are precision weapons... Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ How do ya like my knives on my minassault? Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2740	Posted - 2015.01.15 01:12:00 - [279] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Apparently the Rail turrets used to have or currently have some splash damage, which didn't really make sense since rail weapons are precision weapons... You mean to tell me that something traveling at hypersonic speed hitting the ground shouldn't cause splash damage? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16585	Posted - 2015.01.15 01:49:00 - [280] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Apparently the Rail turrets used to have or currently have some splash damage, which didn't really make sense since rail weapons are precision weapons... They did. Though I cannot recall the exact values for the splash though I do remember CCP Blam did want 4m splash zones which was vehemently opposed. Though I believe that the Railgun rounds used in New Eden fire shells with specific functions in a very similar manner as modern rounds might fire. The Javelin Hybrid Railgun Charge an example potentially of a Dust 514 Tank round that might have a reduced range or muzzle velocity with a larger AoE splash damage zone to represent those Iridium Felechets detonating upon round impact. "The Javelin charge consists of a cluster of Iridium Fletchets with a Graviton Pulse Detonator. This allows for much higher damage than can be achieved by a standard rail system. However, the inherent entropy of graviton pulses means that it is very hard to maintain accuracy at long range." The Spike Hybrid Railgun Chrage is an example using modern anti materiel concepts which could in Dust 514 fire the equivalent of a APFSDS round which would likely have greater muzzle velocity and a much greater penetrative potential. "The spike munition package is designed to deliver huge damage to targets at extreme distances. It consists of a superdense plutonium sabot mounted on a small graviton booster unit that provides a substantial boost to the sabots impact velocity. However, the charge is next to useless at close range. Assuming the other varied kinds of Hybrid charges which consist of various kinds of atoms suspended in a plasma state such as Anti Matter, Iridium, Uranium which are released on impact I cannot see why Railguns don't have a more pronounced splash damage upon detonation of the round. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 302	Posted - 2015.01.15 16:08:00 - [281] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: However I don't then think I'd be far wrong in suggesting that everything on a battlefield can and will kill and infantryman. Everything except the swarm launcher can kill an infantryman on the dust battlefield, and the swarm cant only because of lock on requirement to fire, I have no problem with this fact and I dont think many people do, so Im not sure how this sentence informs dust balance or this discussion. True Adamance wrote: I don't say this to play tit for tat since its pointless to do so but you do need to keep it in context. HAV in Dust are not tanks. They do not function in the same role and are not equipped with the same types of weapons. In dust they seem to function either as mobile artillery, close infantry support (more similar to an APC without much carrying capacity with a cannon than an MBT), or as an actual tank (penetration of enemy lines and exploitation thereof). As mobile artillery they are extremely effective, as close infantry support they are very effective if used properly (if the pilot doesnt feed himself to AV they can sit there and support infantry all day), and as a MBT it isnt super effective because using it in this manner exposes you to a ton of risk (actively pushing into enemy AV and other tanks) and there are no supply lines/soft targets you can hit in the rear to really affect the battle and the front lines are rarely "lines" in any sense in the first place. True Adamance wrote: blah blah blah scooby doo where are youdly scoodly doo I deleted the rest and Ill just reply to it all saying it would be really cool having an accurate damage model of armor vs. incoming penetrators to play with in this game. If I could expect to take a plasma cannon and stuff it up a HAVs ass and kill it in one shot, I would be fine with the front end of those tanks being largely invincible. However with the mechanics in play today, the HAVs are way too hard to kill from any angle and it just makes AV feel absolutely worthless unless the HAV pilot is or is acting like a moron. And again I have experienced this from both sides, I use vehicles and AV, Im not trying to ** on one party or the other, Im trying to make a discussion/environment where both can have some actual fun. Right now vehicles are boring and AV is crap. Edited to add: RE: mobile artillery usage, it would be really cool if there was an indirect fire turret available, to lob some kind of explosive round into an area. Might be hell to balance though. Mobile Artillery? Tank Guns don't have noticeable splash damage so I'm not sure how can they bombard anything without considerable luck or ***** great aim. Certainly one of the things I like about BF4 (and I never thought I'd say this) is that they allow me to chose an Ammo type. That can be HEAT, AP, and Sabot which have varying muzzle velocities and explosive/AV profiles. I personally like Sabots for their high muzzle velocity and the HMG for any pesky infantry that gets too close. You dont need splash damage to kill stuff, I don't know why people think its so hard to kill infantry with the large rail turret, unless someone is actively strafing to avoid you it doesnt take much skill to get them, and if you hit them at all you get a kill unless you have a crap turret and the target is a heavily tanked sentinel.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 109	Posted - 2015.01.15 16:46:00 - [282] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: You dont need splash damage to kill stuff, I don't know why people think its so hard to kill infantry with the large rail turret, unless someone is actively strafing to avoid you it doesnt take much skill to get them, and if you hit them at all you get a kill unless you have a crap turret and the target is a heavily tanked sentinel. 1 meter splash radius. 15% of direct hit damage. That's only reasonable. The railgun just doesn't feel right at the moment. Specialization: Making typo's.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2742	Posted - 2015.01.15 17:31:00 - [283] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: You dont need splash damage to kill stuff, I don't know why people think its so hard to kill infantry with the large rail turret, unless someone is actively strafing to avoid you it doesnt take much skill to get them, and if you hit them at all you get a kill unless you have a crap turret and the target is a heavily tanked sentinel. 1 meter splash radius. 15% of direct hit damage. That's only reasonable. The railgun just doesn't feel right at the moment. That's because a single terrible ADS pilot had railguns nerfed by himself. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16598	Posted - 2015.01.15 19:40:00 - [284] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: You dont need splash damage to kill stuff, I don't know why people think its so hard to kill infantry with the large rail turret, unless someone is actively strafing to avoid you it doesnt take much skill to get them, and if you hit them at all you get a kill unless you have a crap turret and the target is a heavily tanked sentinel. The only reason I want splash damage is for the purposes of the turrets functionality and the immersion of the role. Tank's fire high calibre shells. Simple enough. Those shells usually have a high explosive charge to them so as to damage armour. I like the idea of driving vehicles that let you visually see the forces at work. The recoil on the main gun. The dust kicked up by your hull rocking from the force. The explosion as your round lands on target. The idea of splash isn't necessarily to get kills its to apply damage to the target. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Jack Galen Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 6	Posted - 2015.01.15 20:21:00 - [285] - Quote I may be late to the party, but I do have two things to add: The argument is made that vehicles should at least have to move away when AV shoots at them, such that if they linger, they burn. I have no problem with this whatsoever. However, with the state of AV (swarms particularly) at present, we don't even get the chance to run. I also wish that the community (CPMs incl.) would stop comparing the vehicles to infantry. It cannot be done. If I thought in that manner, I'd run a fully decked out assault suit for about 5-8mil SP less than I fly my python for, and in fact I'd be much more dangerous. It is a vehicle for crying out loud, not a suit! They don't need to be OP (there is no fun in that), but they really need to be thought of as VEHICLES - cost 5x more and have some perks as a result. You don't see cyclists getting mad that a motorcycle goes faster than them, but it does; yet, the motorcycle rider has to pay for insurance, fuel etc, so it balances. Food for thought. Having been away for a while, I can now see that it is this the over-nerfing culture that ruins this game. Shame really, as the game had such promise.


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