Breakin Stuff I k noticed erlyer when you were detailing the changes to the forge gun you missed one thing that I myself think should be returned . When I used to forge gun in chrome when you lined a tanks sweet spot up at the back you got 204% efficiency again shields and 214% efficiency against armour and that has been several decreased to 104% and 114% I think I'm not in game to check at the moment but that old 204% used to serve my breech forge guns well and I do think it should be returned both as a tanker and a forge gunner.

It's certainly something worth consideration. On one hand it does in some way encourage AVers to attack the weaker rear armour on the other 204 and 214% respectively are very high bonuses for a game like Dust.

I can certainly handle 1-2 hit kills but I doubt the rest of the community can.

It's certainly something worth consideration. On one hand it does in some way encourage AVers to attack the weaker rear armour on the other 204 and 214% respectively are very high bonuses for a game like Dust.

I can certainly handle 1-2 hit kills but I doubt the rest of the community can.

The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough.

The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough.

is that for shields or armour ? I genuinely don't notice whether avers are hitting my weak spot or not , that being said I notice it when it's a breech that's whacking me

I'd be cool if they increased the weak spot bonus and reduced the overall DPS of AV. It would certainly reward good gameplay more.

And when one of the HAV crowd has the audacity to say without irony that a solo AV gunner should be unable to take an HAV one on one,

The current multiplier is 167%. That's more than enough.

LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever.

Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar.

Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people.

Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.)

Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k

I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit.

Go ruin a different game.

I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit.

Boy is it gonna get bad when the next tier is released and all these people like the OP will have what they want but they will have to spend the SP's to get it , those who haven't will complain that it's too much , most still wont be satisfied but the vets will be content if they just play it out and see how the situation is , AV will complain and ask for a buff if their not experienced ... calling vehicles OP but not understanding the dynamic that's the response that your gonna get ... to me AV is fine and we will have to see once that moment comes but you wont have a real understanding if people from day one .. are complaining , you can't make everyone happy and all the DS pilots who complain are scrubs ( sorry but true ) I fly around in a militia with no investment and if I get shot down it's understood but it barely almost never happens , crash more then I get shot down and that's because I had over 15 mil before my first respec and I did a vehicle respec as well just to see and I gained a lot from that experience .

I remember when pilots use to shoot at 50% increase and stack pilots on top of that and lead the board in most matches , couldn't swarm them because of the high ROF and just spamming rounds with gunners left them mostly free roam , even from forgers .

That was just where they wanted it and hence the constant complaints from pilots when HAV / LAV users say nothing but they have to deal with far more anti-vehicle efforts then air vehicles .

Infantry most certainly do have a chance to escape.

Standing in the middle of an open patch of ground is ******* stupid no matter who you are. Infantry or Tanker. I idea that an infantryman has no chance to escape is tank is utterly ridiculous.

Currently of the three turret types one is actively designed for the anti infantry role. This being the large blaster which given its mechanic of high dispersion means in all likelihood a fair number of your shots are going to miss their intended target with inaccuracy increasing over time. Can fire up to 48 consecutive rounds before over heat kicks in and your target is gone.

The Railgun is specifically not designed for direct anti infantry work and would require a fair amount of effort in order to acquire the target due to the slow horizontal traversal of the turret and its slow rate of fire and low splash damage requiring a direct hit to kill your enemy. Can fire up to 5 consecutive rounds before overheat kicks in and your target is gone.

The Missile Launcher is an eclectic mix of both mechanics suffering from dispersion though maintaining a fair level of accuracy but spotty hit detection vs infantry targets. Moreover it unlike the others has a slow muzzle velocity for its missiles and slow traversal requiring a fair amount of effort to acquire the target before a publishing slow reload during which time your target can escape.

The issue as I see it is that you seem to be trying to place all of the responsibility for the situation you describe on the pilot. Should not an infantryman of AVer be required to have the situational awareness I do? Should they not be using cover instead of standing in the open? Should not an AVer retreat if their situation becomes less to their advantage?

Now I'm not the greatest supporter of Dusts current turrets. I don't even like them. However you are making an assertion in your post that strikes me as very biased. I'll be the first to admit I have an interest in tanks and most likely a bias, yet I am trying to provide positive and meaningful feed back to those sources presenting ideas for consideration.

And I'm not even a ******* CPM.

You are doing a lot of asserting here and I am not seeing anywhere in your posting any positive suggestions, any concessions, constructive feedback. Regardless of your personal opinions as a CPM you are expected to respond to threads in a mature manner. Not play tit for tat with those you don't agree with.

Wow you really are ******* ********. Infantry can't escape? Ever heard of a roof or a door or a wall, truck, railing? Yeah, tankers can bail from their tank in their dinky little mlt frontline fit. Dropship pilots bail and get smacked by the ship. You're wrong, and you're being an ass on top of it. First time I lost all respect for a CPM. Ever.

Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3

So I have 60+m SP in infantry skills, suits and weapons. My proto suit costs me in excess of 200k isk. Along comes a starter suit with a basic shotgun and I die before I have a chance to react. Kinda sucks, don't it?

That said, I tend to agree that AV is a bit OP at this point.

The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing.

But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone.

Well said!

Are you just completely stupid? all the AV people who have posted on this thread have just been complete asses because they think that AV should be a million times more powerfull than a tank and are trying to keep the game boring. They did not offer a rebuttal they basically were saying im stupid and im a biased tanker and saying i have just wasted my time because im completely wrong. The pilots who have commented here have not flamed up this thread it was the AVers because they are not willing to even contemplate my ideas and just shot everything every thing down and i do not ever saying that YOU did not know what it is like to be a pilot but then again you have lost all credibility with previous posts and i have been a pilot since the early stages of the closed beta so i think i know what i am talking about. And if you think Soraya was being constructive then you do not know the meaning of the word. Do you even have a brain or is there just a hampster on a hampster wheel up there either way you are possibly with the exception Soraya the dumbest person to post here. And soraya was the one who came in here and did not even consider one of my ideas.

Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k

I'm not sure if many of you were paying attention to the Dev blogs pre-beta but this might be an interesting read.

http://dust514.com/news/blog/2012/03/vehicle-dev-b/

LOL you can not even come up with a solid argument to state your point. Vehicles are not overpowered and you can not prove otherwise