DUST Search - The problem with Vehicles and lack of purpose..... and AV

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Vodar 540 wrote:

I realize that calling people idiots and dumbasses is possibly a over reaction but when people come into this thread looking for a fight and not being open minded and do not even bother to comment on the rest of the ideas and recommendations and just insult and shot down any ideas and for some people (i wont name them) use these threads as just a way to argue with the exact same people and that is why the developers will not even bother looking at these threads because all they can expect is bickering and nothing constructive at all and i just get frustrated at people who have just come in looking to stir up a storm and not contribute any thing of worth to the topic. Not to mention i was not biased in the initial post and was not calling for a nerf to AV but a buff to vehicles so that they are of some worth a team and can contribute to attaining victory. So all of the people who just came onto this thread and maybe read the first paragraph then just started pointlessly arguing the same case that they have argued a thousand times before. Do you all not realize that this is pointless? that all you could achieve is winning a pointless argument! My proposals were just to make this game fun everyone and add a bit of depth to it. I really do not know why half the people who post here just want a completely one sided fight. There are actually so few people playing the game know i would struggle to get a pub match within 5 minutes. And my point here a huge amount of players have stopped playing the game because vehicles are just not fun. So all of you who post regularly on these forums who are not really arguing a point anymore at this point it feels like you are just doing it for the sake of. Because you have posted your opinions on many different threads in the past you have nothing left to argue so just stop so that these forums might actually be of some use to the developers.

My problem is the premise of your thread ignores the need for a balance point between "I am an unholy killing machine" and "these guys are actually rigged to rip my balls off, I should be cautious and smart."


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Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 0	Posted - 2015.01.12 16:54:00 - [1] - Quote I am one of many vehicle pilots in this game who has kept their silence on this topic for a very long time now. I have finally decided to speak up because I have just gotten sick of the situation where I am in a incubus/Python and am suddenly hit by a volley of swarms and when I try to use my shield booster another volley hits and cancels my shield boosters effect and from that point on I am as good as dead. This is a complete joke. How should a fully specked ADS pilot with close to 9 million sp into vehicles and using a ADS that costs close to 300k isk should even have to worry by being taken down by a sole dancing minmando that would have maybe 2mill sp at max put into AV (including suit) and that fit would cost at most 170k isk, maybe more, i am not sure. So my point, in this instance, is that it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. And now for tanks vs AV. Now tanks are not in anywhere near the same state as drop ships are but are none the less severely under powered and, as is the way for all vehicles, incredibly boring as far as modules and capabilities are concerned. I was looking at what was planned for vehicles in March 2014 and i was blown away by what they were planning for the Force recon drop ship and Marauder tanks. They were planning to have a much more EVE like modules and ideas that were amazing and would add huge variety of possible fittings. Returning to the topic at hand whilst tanks have relatively good survivability they will have to run from AV which should not be the case, it should be vice versa but, it is not. I can go an entire day and not lose my XT Gunnlogi but if, I was in a Madrugar I could easily be brought down by pretty mundane AV. Tanks in this game do not bring the fear factor that they should. For instance if i were to see a tank in Battlefield or Planetside i would think "oh crap i need to run and take cover" but in dust the mentality for seeing a Ion cannon Madrugar is "okay where is the closest supply depot so i can break out the the swarms and take this guy down completely on my own". For starters, the Madrugar needs a huge buff because they are just a farce and secondly this should not be the reaction people should have. People who use AV should be the ones scared of a tank not the other way around. Not only this but Vehicles serve no purpose on the battlefield anymore and the original form of skirmish should be brought back where there is a attacking and defending and only one MCC trying to get across the battlefield without dying and the attacking team has to shut down the null cannons to allow the MCC to survive. But this was not only a better game mode but also gave vehicles a purpose in the game where a group of tanks could bombard a Null cannon and eventually destroy it . Recommendations What i would recommend is to not necessarily nerf AV but to buff vehicles so that they could have more of a presence on the Battlefield and add a couple of tank orientated maps. Because on a lot of maps vehicles can not get anywhere the action.[list] - Increase the ability for tanks to withstand constant bombardment from average AV (siege modules etc.) - Remodel the game modes to make vehicles viable - Reintroduce weapon variations for both small and large turrets - Reintroduce Marauder HAVs, Logi DS and LAV - Add the Force recon DS with a pre-fitted cloak - Reintroduce the variety off modules that used to be in the game and add some new ones. - New vehicle orientated maps with wide open expanses and no buildings where vehicle transport is needed to achieve victory - Remove the RDV and replace it with a type of vehicle up link at the back of bases to safely deploy vehicles and remove the chance of an DS tapping a RDV and killing it. - Replace the supply depots so that there is in every game a reachable supply depot for tanks. I hope that this has not been a complete waste of time and that the devs actually may realize that the vast majority of people on these forums are seeking to make this a more main stream mediocre game that when new players play this game they see a game that is trying to be like Battlefield except much slower and more boring. And this is happening because these people want to keep the game the same and keep their bullshit tactics that make the game boring. I was in a game yesterday where the enemy team just sat on top of a building with AV and just stayed there for the entire game and never even tried to take the objective. This is the main reason why a lot of new players are turning away from the game because they have more polished games like Battlefield and other more popular well known games on the market. This game would attract certain types of players who would like the EVE style of game style if the vehicle fittings, it would bring a whole new group of players and a lot of old ones. This would also bring a unique game to the market and would attract and KEEP new players because this game has a lot of new players that would hear of the game and try it out and then would be disappointed when they see that there is more vehicle customization in Battlefield and Planetside. As far as I am aware the EVE online community has greatly expanded over the past few few years because of it is a unique game that has not been seen before that offers a wide variety of ways to play the game. But in Dust there could be three tankers that would be using the same Gunnlogi fitting with maybe a different turret at most. This game has more potential then all other FPS games on the market and if the connection with EVE is utilized properly it could be un-matched in the gaming world. It just needs more content and a wider variety of ways for vehicles in particular to be used. All the devs need to do is not always listen to the community and should try to get the rest of the community involved in these discussions.To get the full picture.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 1	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:17:00 - [2] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. I do not think i should be immune to good AV but to average AV yes because im in a tank that would cost 3 times the amount and i would have far more sp invested so yes i should be immune to a a bunch of crap swarms or AV or at least i should be able to withstand it for far longer than i can now because at the moment i have to run to survive from all but the worst AV.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 5	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:20:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: This post makes me want to cry. Not because it's probably going to give me cancer, but because I already promised not to troll Pilots until tomorrow. Why couldn't you have posted it then? So you are one of these biased AV people who have no understanding of what it is like to be a pilot then well then i say to you that people like you are the reason why this game is failing to bring in new players
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 5	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:26:00 - [4] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Cost is irrelevant to balance, Vodar. Game is 16v16. That means the game is balanced if 16 people equal 16 people. Why do you think you're worth more than the AV player? (Hint: You're not, and you're wrong.) Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 5	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:38:00 - [5] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Are you completely incompetent there is no turret left in this game that can hit infantry and infantry can take cover vehicles can not. As for you knowing more than me because you have clearly not tried out tanks whereas i have tried both AV and tanks and in my experience it is much easier to take down a vehicle with AV
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 10	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:46:00 - [6] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 LOL you can not even come up with a solid argument to state your point. Vehicles are not overpowered and you can not prove otherwise
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:51:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Um... we have to limit how many vehicles can be on the field at one time because of how overpowered they are. o_o Wow that is actually all you can come up with? They have limited the number off vehicles that can be deployed because it would be overpowered if the tanks were powerfull enough. Which they are not.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:54:00 - [8] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range. For one thing three volleys of a swarm could easily kill most ADSs and the swarms would knock the pilots aim off.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:16:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. Seriously if you used to lose 5 or 6 200k suits trying to take down a ADS then you are a tryhard and also now a ADS has a 0% chance of killing a forge gunner and about a20% chance of killing a minmando in time before he is brought down which is not exactly fare now is it? And you say the game should be fun for everyone what about pilots? Should they be neglected? because that is what you are saying Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:23:00 - [10] - Quote The most amount of kills I ever got in a tank was 48 since the beginning of the closed beta. But i got at least 3 games where i got over 60 kills with twin millita flaylocks. And i could never get that with the best of tanks Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community

Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 17	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:31:00 - [11] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. You honestly think AV needs a buff? so you basically want to have 1 shot swarms and forge guns? If a tank reverses and hits a a wall (which is highly likely because it takes forever to turn your turret to look behind) it will get stuck on that wall. I see experienced tank drivers getting killed regularly by adv AV and ADS pilots dont stand a chance. So you should not comment on something you know nothing about. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 19	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:41:00 - [12] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. I have yet to see a BUFF AV thread or a NERF vehcle thread as of lately so how can you say that? all ive seen is AV is OP threads. i know that my swarms are not good against shield vehicles hardened or not but i QQ for a buff to my weapon of choice. i just find a way around it ie. waiting for the hardnerders to go on cool down then attacking All the calls to buff AV happen in the buff vehicle threads. And yes hardened shield tanks are hard to to take down with maxed out skills a shield hardener will last 45 seconds and a cool down of 60 seconds. so it is too often that you have to retreat and for the majority of the game you cant do anything. so while shield is good while hardened against swarms the active tanking style is very inconvenient. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 20	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:55:00 - [13] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: . If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. I think this disproves you pocket rocket girl Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 23	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:32:00 - [14] - Quote Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. I have looked through some similar threads and its all the same where AV comes in and uses it as a platform to argue against making vehicles usefull and making them boring they are just happy as long as they still have points on wheels that have no chance of killing them. The devs just ignore these types of threads because they all end up with the some AV guy having a go at the author of the the thread and not even looking at the ideas. I really do not know why i bothered with this because the AV people of these forums are just hellbent on keeping this game boring and not successful. What has actually changed due to these forums? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because there are always the same group of people just bickering and what seriously dissapoints me is that a a member of the CPM would be so biased to not even consider and attempt to insult the author and his ideas. Really these forums are a farce and waste of time. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 27	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:04:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Quite frankly I am severely disapointed with this thread it was meant to be a discussion on how to improve the game, but yet again all the AV people came in here to start whining and fight against change. Actually, what happened is that an AVer offered a rebuttal to your premise, than you offered a counter-argument while also claiming that I'm a biased [evil] AVer who doesn't know what it's like to be a Pilot (which is false, as I've been piloting vehicles for over a year now). Then vehicle Pilots (mainly Stupid Blueberry, Toolbar Zoobar, and Spkr) decided to begin flaming your thread. The only AVers I see here is me (who only made one slightly off-topic statement), Breakin Stuff (who made only one speculation), and Soraya Xel (who was abrasive, yet still constructive). It's okay to not like AVers, but don't blame your problems on them when they're not the source. Are you just completely stupid? all the AV people who have posted on this thread have just been complete asses because they think that AV should be a million times more powerfull than a tank and are trying to keep the game boring. They did not offer a rebuttal they basically were saying im stupid and im a biased tanker and saying i have just wasted my time because im completely wrong. The pilots who have commented here have not flamed up this thread it was the AVers because they are not willing to even contemplate my ideas and just shot everything every thing down and i do not ever saying that YOU did not know what it is like to be a pilot but then again you have lost all credibility with previous posts and i have been a pilot since the early stages of the closed beta so i think i know what i am talking about. And if you think Soraya was being constructive then you do not know the meaning of the word. Do you even have a brain or is there just a hampster on a hampster wheel up there either way you are possibly with the exception Soraya the dumbest person to post here. And soraya was the one who came in here and did not even consider one of my ideas. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 27	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:06:00 - [16] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: Black, I feel your pain, but check how many times swarms have been nerfed. I am fully proto Swams and much more. I don't use the Minmando, I use an Amarr Logi so I can carry my own hives, and proxies, and complex mods, kinkats etc. I hunt things that are red and fly or drive. Minmandos don't run so fast so if a volley of swarms comes after you.....run and avoid the area, unless of course it;s me....then maybe recall. Learn your colors...red means just run and avoid, yellow means recall. Just saying. 54m SP and I still love my swarms the best. Seriously you think that all vehicles should have to run from swarms? YOU ARE A DUMBASS. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 34	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:35:00 - [17] - Quote I realize that calling people idiots and dumbasses is possibly a over reaction but when people come into this thread looking for a fight and not being open minded and do not even bother to comment on the rest of the ideas and recommendations and just insult and shot down any ideas and for some people (i wont name them) use these threads as just a way to argue with the exact same people and that is why the developers will not even bother looking at these threads because all they can expect is bickering and nothing constructive at all and i just get frustrated at people who have just come in looking to stir up a storm and not contribute any thing of worth to the topic. Not to mention i was not biased in the initial post and was not calling for a nerf to AV but a buff to vehicles so that they are of some worth a team and can contribute to attaining victory. So all of the people who just came onto this thread and maybe read the first paragraph then just started pointlessly arguing the same case that they have argued a thousand times before. Do you all not realize that this is pointless? that all you could achieve is winning a pointless argument! My proposals were just to make this game fun everyone and add a bit of depth to it. I really do not know why half the people who post here just want a completely one sided fight. There are actually so few people playing the game know i would struggle to get a pub match within 5 minutes. And my point here a huge amount of players have stopped playing the game because vehicles are just not fun. So all of you who post regularly on these forums who are not really arguing a point anymore at this point it feels like you are just doing it for the sake of. Because you have posted your opinions on many different threads in the past you have nothing left to argue so just stop so that these forums might actually be of some use to the developers. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 34	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:46:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: I realize that calling people idiots and dumbasses is possibly a over reaction but when people come into this thread looking for a fight and not being open minded and do not even bother to comment on the rest of the ideas and recommendations and just insult and shot down any ideas and for some people (i wont name them) use these threads as just a way to argue with the exact same people and that is why the developers will not even bother looking at these threads because all they can expect is bickering and nothing constructive at all and i just get frustrated at people who have just come in looking to stir up a storm and not contribute any thing of worth to the topic. Not to mention i was not biased in the initial post and was not calling for a nerf to AV but a buff to vehicles so that they are of some worth a team and can contribute to attaining victory. So all of the people who just came onto this thread and maybe read the first paragraph then just started pointlessly arguing the same case that they have argued a thousand times before. Do you all not realize that this is pointless? that all you could achieve is winning a pointless argument! My proposals were just to make this game fun everyone and add a bit of depth to it. I really do not know why half the people who post here just want a completely one sided fight. There are actually so few people playing the game know i would struggle to get a pub match within 5 minutes. And my point here a huge amount of players have stopped playing the game because vehicles are just not fun. So all of you who post regularly on these forums who are not really arguing a point anymore at this point it feels like you are just doing it for the sake of. Because you have posted your opinions on many different threads in the past you have nothing left to argue so just stop so that these forums might actually be of some use to the developers. My problem is the premise of your thread ignores the need for a balance point between "I am an unholy killing machine" and "these guys are actually rigged to rip my balls off, I should be cautious and smart." The fact is that i do not necessarily want killing machines but i also should not have to run away at the first sight of AV the whole point of a tank is to support infantry and suppress the enemy but HAVs are at the moment useless i am more likely to get a kill with a 20gj ion cannon than a 80gj ion cannon and more likely to tank av in a saga 2 because of the special active module it has i want a balance between AV and vehicles but there just is not. PS i am not going to bother to post on this thread again because it served no purpose as soon as the first comment was posted. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community