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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1760
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 18:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons.
If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use.
I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame.
PS: this thread will summon Spkr4theDead sooner or later |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1760
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 18:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Jack McReady wrote:There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons.
If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use.
I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame. What? Buff vehicles? But theyre already OP... Apparently. According to the blanket assumption that all vehicles are, not just SHIELDS vs SWARMS(armor based) I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1765
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 20:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:First off i have been playing since closed beta,
If you were ever a pilot, you'd know it's not easy.
and have done just about every role i could in this game.
See above about piloting.
You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so?
A single swarm dishes out thousands worth of damage in 3 volleys. The only way you're able to tell it's multiple people is when you blow up within 2 seconds.
it take 3 seconds to lock
One of the biggest lies I've ever seen here about the "difficulty" of using AV. MLT swarm lock-on is 1.4 seconds. At level 5, it's just slightly longer than one second. The math has been done.
bout 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time,
See above, stop lying.
thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies,
See above, stop lying.
the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields.
The recharge stops if the vehicle takes damage.
i do not know how you fly
That's because you're not a pilot.
but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron
Clearly not.
that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying.
Swarms still annihilate shield ships.
my python is more of a glass cannon
It's far more glass than cannon.
which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible
Assaults have a sidearm, heavies have a sidearm, scouts have a sidearm and cloak, commandos have 2 light weapons, logis are screwed except for the Amarr.
but at that point im already out of the hot zone.
No you're not, because swarms have a max range of 400m.
There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV.
See above
You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be?
AV should be a deterrent. There's a big difference between accessing PRO AV with a little over 1mil SP, and accessing complex vehicle mods with 12mil SP. Also a huge ISK difference.
Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off,
Swarms have a max range of 400m, as well as ignoring hills and obstacles.
but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play.
My experience matters little in the face of PRO AV.
My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper.
And you still can't destroy vehicles? Looks like the problem isn't OP vehicles or weak AV.
i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer?
You rep blue dots in a commando suit? Again, your problem isn't OP vehicles or UP AV.
I agree that people who camp roof tops suck
[Getting the high ground isn't fair? lol[/i]
( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets)
It's essential to locking down objectives, and denying ground and air vehicles.
but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear?
Infantry can hack objectives, and their suits cost less than a well-fit vehicle.
proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so.
A cloaked scout that can fire 2 shotgun rounds before the cloak drops is little risk, all reward. A redline sniper that's really far in the redline is little risk, all reward.
i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker
Seems you're not a pilot at all.
( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank)
See above-mentioned 400m swarms.
but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp,
Doesn't matter if you are or aren't paying attention, a pair of Minmandos is kicking out far more than enough damage to destroy a vehicle in 4 seconds.
until you can actually answer the question in this thread anything you say is null, you have yet to give a single example of how to improve vehicles all you have said is that AV is OP and it appears that's all you can do. Yeah you should soooooooooo be a lawyer, you'd be so awesome at that. Cuz you know you're so good at 'backing people into corners' and repeating the same BS questions over and over again and trying to make it seem like you know what you're talking about. well that happens when you summon Spkr4theDead ... now you are all doomed
beside that he is right and the majority answering with their "forum wisdom" have no clue what is going on in the game right now in regards of vehicles. they just think that because that single tank they maybe encountered which landed a lucky hit and killed them while they were scrubbing around in their mlt suit now all vehicles must be OP.
I tell you something, I havent been killed by a vehicle for ages...I have been killed by a heavy jumping out of a HAVs and dropships plenty of times though, that should tell you something. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1783
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 10:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Mex-0 wrote:
Remember Tank514?
What "Tank 514" are you talking about? 1. 1.7 where they were 'OP' for about a month before the nerfs rolled in 2. That was pilots adapting to what CCP had given them but it was nothing like what the pilots had asked for 3. In comparision to AV the OP factor has for the majority of the time been in AV hands, Uprising 1.0 to 1.7 spanned the best part of a year if not more and that was when vehicles had more options and everything actually we had tank 514 multiple times in dust history, first time it was in closed beta where those super fast sagaris tanks were driving around with 20k hitpoint, super accurate weapons which instaderped any suit on the field but we didnt had adequate AV to deal with it and the fun part is, AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1783
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 11:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
xavier zor wrote:KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. Correct. if you want one player to kill and ADS solo, then make an ADS cost as much as a dropsuit. that way a 150k minmando can kill my150k fitting incubus, or make It so a viper is 610 ISK, a Myron is 3k and a python is 56k Either this or make it so at least 2 people have to work together to take out a basic tank, 3/4 for a PRO tank when they are released lets not forget that the enemy doesn't have to run infantry to try and take out a tank, they can call in their OWN tanks and then if they kill the tanker, get their assholes opened by OP AV this is what only CoD scrubs want (or people with similar mindset)
if it requires more than a single person to fack up a tank (or use tank by yourself) you create artificial number imbalance. the team that can afford to waste more tanks on the field would simply have bigger advantage.
this is not rocket science. this is simple math, -1 guy devoted to taking objectives in a tank wrecking the field, -2 guys on the other taking care of him, oh look suddenly enemy team with tank has +1 advantage unless you pick up tank yourself. result AV = useless, go tank or go home. imbalance again and binary game mechanics, none of that belong to games in this century.
we already had that, we do not want that. if you want it, go play world of tanks and enjoy your arcade style tank gameplay. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1783
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 11:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear except the tank can mess up any attempt of your team to hack unless the point is specifically not accessible by the tank.
and to be honest, while many people whine about the large blaster not being good, after testing I found it wrecks infantry at close range as good as before.
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1784
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 12:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear if a tank is only for AV what is the point of a tank if it cannot be used as force multiplier? just to cruise around, destroy some installations and do nothing the rest of the game? Deny enemy mobility through destroying LAVs and Dropships Add small turrets for AI, and the infantry AV battle becomes 2 v 2
does not really work out with limited turret elevation, even worse, the dropship will hover over you and destroy your tank with small rails and with your approach AV wont be able to deal with the dropship because AV will be pointless.
and LAV is simply to fast to keep up with turret turn speed.
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1784
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 13:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Mex-0 wrote:
Remember Tank514?
What "Tank 514" are you talking about? 1. 1.7 where they were 'OP' for about a month before the nerfs rolled in 2. That was pilots adapting to what CCP had given them but it was nothing like what the pilots had asked for 3. In comparision to AV the OP factor has for the majority of the time been in AV hands, Uprising 1.0 to 1.7 spanned the best part of a year if not more and that was when vehicles had more options and everything actually we had tank 514 multiple times in dust history, first time it was in closed beta where those super fast sagaris tanks were driving around with 20k hitpoint, super accurate weapons which instaderped any suit on the field but we didnt had adequate AV to deal with it and the fun part is, AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry 1. AV was adequate but no one wanted to skill in to it and that was always the case, no one wanted to go AV so vehicles were left to do what they wanted shooting for 30 seconds at a standing still sagaris was in no way adequate.
beside that it would not stands till and was as fast as current LAVs
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1784
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 13:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:but if tanks are AV and you can't hack a point in a tank then they can't bring the numerical advantage to bear if a tank is only for AV what is the point of a tank if it cannot be used as force multiplier? just to cruise around, destroy some installations and do nothing the rest of the game? Deny enemy mobility through destroying LAVs and Dropships Add small turrets for AI, and the infantry AV battle becomes 2 v 2 does not really work out with limited turret elevation, even worse, the dropship will hover over you and destroy your tank with small rails and with your approach AV wont be able to deal with the dropship because AV will be pointless. and LAV is simply to fast to keep up with turret turn speed. That's the ADS working as intended Use blasters against LAVs you havent used vehicles, didnt you ? |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1788
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 15:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote: Well you're wrong. If it takes more then 2 guys to take down a tank that's balance. Again the tank can't hide behind cover and is a much bigger and easier to hit.
"hey it is balance because I say so, without any arguments, because I dont need them"
Toobar Zoobar wrote: And your logic here is that the team that can afford to call in the most tanks has the advantage. Yeah I agree. Definatly. Although the same also applies to how much a player is spending on his/her suit. The team that can afford to waste the most on proto suits also has an advantage.
it is not about isk spend, what about "binary gameplay" & "AV is left in dust" is hard to understand? having everyone required to be skilled into tanks to counter tanks is not balanced. deal with it.
Nothing Certain wrote:So your answer is that you think a 20:1 KDR for tankers is balanced. his answer actually is, that he thinks that it is okay for a tank to take 30 seconds of continous fire and drive away while netting him 20:1 KDR. prime example of CoD mentality. |
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1789
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 15:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote: Well again if cost is intended to be irrelevant why do people choose to spend tons of isk on proto suits instead of just using starter fits?
you are funneled into cost too much, I couldnt care less about isk. I have enough isk to run proto suits for my lifetime and even if I didnt, there are certain playstyles that allow me to stay alive all game without dying, again allowing me to run full proto forever.
what I do however care is what I skill into. SP is the most precious ressource in this game, it allows me to determine my own playstyles and run whatever I decide to skill into IF I WANT TO. I do not want to be forced to skill into something just to be able to enjoy the game because otherwise herp derp tank ruins my day and I have no other way to deal with it efficiently except for using a tank myself (or the other solution would be to run an AV squad and lose the game because we didnt had enough bodies on the field that can fight back). maybe I do not enjoy tanks at all? why should I be forced to use them? just because some CoD kids want to run 20/0 every game with them? no thanks. in no way having 2+ persons to deal with tanks as requirement is balanced or good for the game.
and to answer your question: people use proto stuff because it gives them sense of progression, improvement and achievements, otherwise you could just aswell play Bf, counter strike or unreal tournament. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1789
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 16:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote: You do make a good point. Isk tends to be a resource most of us don't have to worry about these days. I myself have about 73 mil. It's been that way for a while now. I tend to gain as much isk as Iose. There isn't much else to spend it on.
And on a side note... tanks ruin your day boo ******* hoo. Why the hell should I care about that. That has nothing to do with balancing just you sucking. I can't remember the last time I was killed by a tank as an infantry. If you can't deal with tanks go play ambush at least you have that option.
first, I never said they ruin my day but they will ruin everyones day if 2+ or tank is the requirement of taking down one.
second, people with alot of isk are a minority of this game. most of them are people from closed beta or from lag conquest or some no lifers that farmed it all day (in which case they deserve it imho). the average player I met ingame usually farms isk in pubs, then use some proto stuff in FW for a single match, they can in no way sustain going full proto forever.
Spkr4theDead wrote:Jack McReady wrote: AV was too weak because it was nerfed due to crying it was too effective against infantry So it wasn't fair that infantry was complaining that what was supposed to be an AV weapon was being used as a far-too overpowered AI weapon? Don't let your brain explode from trying to wrap your brain around that. well that was 2012 in closed beta and it was fixed shortly after by a bandaid vehicle nerf. it was basically the start of the evil nerf buff circle as we currently have. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1790
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 16:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Jack McReady wrote: it was fair to complain and fix it but it wasnt fair that the AV capabities were cut down too.
What AV capabilities were cut down? you werent in closed beta 2012? |
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