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The problem with Vehicles and lack of purpose..... and AV

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Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:53:00 - [31] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... I actually did read the rest. It just got funnier from there though. He wants a DS with a pre-fitted cloak, he wants vehicles to spawn on the ground, and he wants vehicles' defenses buffed, and probably a couple other things designed to ensure he cannot ever die. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 421	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:53:00 - [32] - Quote 1. This is why CPM is generally disliked, biased and useless to boot 2. He is right on cost, AV is far cheaper and does a better job 3. Its far cheaper to skill into AV than to make a viable vehicle fit which can last 4. Vehicles only have 1 turret at best which can kill infantry, every other turret got nerfed 5. Proto AV bs BASIC vehicles
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1476	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:54:00 - [33] - Quote HIGHLY IMPORTANT!!! OP clearly says there needs to be a purpose for vehicles, right now it is to kill other vehicles, which is boring because all vehicle fights end in 30 seconds,where ISK just goes poof. Then its back to "farming" infantry, which is where the QQ comes from. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:54:00 - [34] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range. For one thing three volleys of a swarm could easily kill most ADSs and the swarms would knock the pilots aim off.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1476	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:55:00 - [35] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... I actually did read the rest. It just got funnier from there though. He wants a DS with a pre-fitted cloak, he wants vehicles to spawn on the ground, and he wants vehicles' defenses buffed, and probably a couple other things designed to ensure he cannot ever die. Also kinda disappointing where nobody can mute out the bad and at least acknowledge there is some semblance of a good idea somewhere... But its just easier to shoot everything down isn't it. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 69	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:56:00 - [36] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range. If I see an enemy ADS using a missile launcher, I get in an ADS with a railgun. Same with the HAV. That's a counter that this guy is not requesting to be nerfed. I guess the only problem you have with that is that it's too much effort for you. You want the easy way. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 69	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:57:00 - [37] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Kinda disappointing that nobody read the rest and just blew hot air out of their ass... I actually did read the rest. It just got funnier from there though. He wants a DS with a pre-fitted cloak, he wants vehicles to spawn on the ground, and he wants vehicles' defenses buffed, and probably a couple other things designed to ensure he cannot ever die. Have you never actually tried to kill a vehicle with another vehicle? Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1661	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:59:00 - [38] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: it should not even be conceivable for a sole minmando to take down a ADS. "Can I please be immune to my counter?" There was a time when the ADS could literally hover above and ignore a proto swarmer. It wasn't a good time for anyone other than pilots. If you sit and take 3 volleys then wait around long enough for him to reload and volley more, then you've no grounds for complaint. It is not difficult to get out of a swarmer's range. For one thing three volleys of a swarm could easily kill most ADSs and the swarms would knock the pilots aim off. I must be volleying swarms at the minority of ADSs ... 90% of the time.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2857	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:01:00 - [39] - Quote So I have 60+m SP in infantry skills, suits and weapons. My proto suit costs me in excess of 200k isk. Along comes a starter suit with a basic shotgun and I die before I have a chance to react. Kinda sucks, don't it? That said, I tend to agree that AV is a bit OP at this point.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1760	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:01:00 - [40] - Quote There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons. If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use. I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame. PS: this thread will summon Spkr4theDead sooner or later

Duke Noobiam The Dukes of Death 335	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:03:00 - [41] - Quote Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1478	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:04:00 - [42] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons. If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use. I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame. What? Buff vehicles? But theyre already OP... Apparently. According to the blanket assumption that all vehicles are, not just SHIELDS vs SWARMS(armor based) Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1673	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:06:00 - [43] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Um... we have to limit how many vehicles can be on the field at one time because of how overpowered they are. o_o Wow that is actually all you can come up with? They have limited the number off vehicles that can be deployed because it would be overpowered if the tanks were powerfull enough. Which they are not. Well we have to limit the number of logi's , heavies and DAM sure scouts ... since people complain about their spam like EQ spam or rather links were complained about . Kinda like the entitlement of some who want to shut down the " spice " of this game . I AV and I can deal with dying while swarming by being killed by someone who hops out of their burning wreak and kill me and then in-turn hop back in and drive off , I can deal with getting shot down by forges and swarms while flying in a militia with no investment or a ADS with 20 to 30 mil behind it because I placed myself in that situation , yeah you can talk about invisible swarms and such but that's a problem with the game whereas , you have those who campaign to change the whole mechanics of the game and not addressing the real issues like not being able to check your mini map in certain areas from fear of falling in the " blue lagoon " or insta-killing yourself by suicide and you didn't try to do it , getting caught up on glitch terrain when in a light suit or not being able to jump in a heavy that's no more then 700 HP's or a Cal Sent at less then 5 . It's easy to move around things that are of no importance in a effort to look important while neglecting the REAL problems and issues . It's like the vehicle rework , when all they had to do is fix the numbers . You already had the vehicles and mods . Everyone wanna throw up numbers and spreadsheets like that make them right but in that instance the ball was dropped . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5306	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:06:00 - [44] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 239	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:06:00 - [45] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. I do not think i should be immune to good AV but to average AV yes because im in a tank that would cost 3 times the amount and i would have far more sp invested so yes i should be immune to a a bunch of crap swarms or AV or at least i should be able to withstand it for far longer than i can now because at the moment i have to run to survive from all but the worst AV. First off i have been playing since closed beta, and have done just about every role i could in this game. except scouts just getting into that role. in your original post there were some things that i do agree with and other things that i don't. You mentioned that you were being attacked by a single swarmer how do you know that was so? it take 3 seconds to lock about 1.5 to reestablish lock box and another 3 seconds to relock to fire another swarm volly plus flight time, thats roughly about 7-8 seconds in between vollies, the shield booster takes a second for it to pulse and restart recharging the shields. i do not know how you fly but i have 2 different fittings the python and the myron that i use one for troop transport and battle platform where i depend on my gunners to target ground troops and i just worry about flying. my python is more of a glass cannon which i use to cover my squad mates on the ground, once AV appears my squad moves in and takes them out if possible but at that point im already out of the hot zone. There have been times when I think im out of the hot zone just to be pegged by more AV. You also mentioned that tanks shouldnt have to fear AV then what would the role of AV be? Its anti vehicle, it is supposed to be a threat it is supposed to make vehicles back off, but killing them 100% of the time every time no and thats where player skill comes into play. My AV fit is a proto minmando with 2 proto swarms and a repper. i stick as close a possible to my squad and act a a medic since the only thing can hurt are vehicles but in return my squad tries to keep reds off of me while i rep them and in turn when a DS/ADS or tank shows up i protect them. since that suit is nothing but AV why shouldnt i be able to keep a vehicle back if not destroy it depending on skill of pilot/ AVer? I agree that people who camp roof tops suck ( i admit i do it from time to time but only do it when im bored and with forge gun to practice aiming at moving targets) but how is that any different than corps that run nothing but proto gear? proto scouts? Snipers in red lines? just because you feel that its bull **** it dosent make it so. i Admit im not the best pilot or tanker ( i can keep my DS/ADS alive longer than i can a tank) but i find it that when i get killed it because im not paying attention or just being a derpy derp, every once in a while it will be because of some random bull swarms not rendering or extreme knock around. Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1760	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:07:00 - [46] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: There is only one problem imho, the amount of armor shredding AV weapons. If we had more shield shredding av weapons more people would use it and you could use armor tanked vehicles to counter it but for now they are mostly pointless or extremely hard to use. I would simply add more resistance to armor hardeners till racial parity is ingame. What? Buff vehicles? But theyre already OP... Apparently. According to the blanket assumption that all vehicles are, not just SHIELDS vs SWARMS(armor based) I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1478	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:13:00 - [47] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 288	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:15:00 - [48] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thread is adorable. A coalescent of all of the worst arguments vehicle users use to justify being overpowered. <3 And then there's you who troll on about not wanting vehicles to be what they should be, which is more than one infantryman. Worst concept for game design ever! Please don't design ground combat games. The market is bad enough as is. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:16:00 - [49] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. The first paragraph here is the key point. I used to commonly lose five or six 200k suits trying to kill a single ADS. And failing. But the reality is costs can be tweaked later, so they're irrelevant for balance. The point is making the gameplay engaging and fun. And vehicles not dying isn't actually fun for anyone. Seriously if you used to lose 5 or 6 200k suits trying to take down a ADS then you are a tryhard and also now a ADS has a 0% chance of killing a forge gunner and about a20% chance of killing a minmando in time before he is brought down which is not exactly fare now is it? And you say the game should be fun for everyone what about pilots? Should they be neglected? because that is what you are saying Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 239	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:16:00 - [50] - Quote Vodar 540 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you might have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry, and they don't have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and survive, continuing to deny opponents from actually killing them. Vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. Are you completely incompetent there is no turret left in this game that can hit infantry and infantry can take cover vehicles can not. As for you knowing more than me because you have clearly not tried out tanks whereas i have tried both AV and tanks and in my experience it is much easier to take down a vehicle with AV I haven no problem hitting and killing inf. with turrets except the rail havent figured its secret yet but i can kill a majority of inf. using the missile DS/ADS and blaster LAV, i suck at tanking i admit ( i no like the way they move ) Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1674	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:17:00 - [51] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day It goes to how you set your builds but how many know what mod to place and how to use it ??? When I'm on the ground and I happen to kill a LAV or HAV user and jack their vehicles , it's a wonder how they survive with their set up's but people sure know how to cry wolf though and claim something is overpowering . I rarely get out of my vehicles and that was because I knew that if the right person killed me , they would wreak my team with my set up . I might not be able to but some are resourceful . I had my fitting and core maxed and always kept the best mods on my vehicles . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 288	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:18:00 - [52] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: A CPM should at least try to be somewhat moderately impartial and respectful of others. And not to be too bias. I see you don't care much for that. I am shooting down bias and being moderately impartial. :) The OP is outrageously biased and incredibly far off base. Bullsh*t you are impartial. so long as you get your way right? I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 180	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:18:00 - [53] - Quote The best advice I can give to vehicle users is to just respect out of them. In a game where infantry can go 60-0 everything is fine but a tanker goes 20-0 there's a serious problem. Let me stress that 20-0 for a tank is pretty rare. The enforcer tank does not exist anymore notice this tank has lots of modules to manage tanks today are no where near this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FyD5Nolwo 25-0 with a crew member. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but balance right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REsKIZedfgE 60-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cGNqLomI 40-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 51-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrzz32kdKrg 44-1
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 158	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:21:00 - [54] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. If we talk about freaking tanks like marauders that cost over 2 millions, thr idea should be something hard to break Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 11	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:23:00 - [55] - Quote The most amount of kills I ever got in a tank was 48 since the beginning of the closed beta. But i got at least 3 games where i got over 60 kills with twin millita flaylocks. And i could never get that with the best of tanks Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2725	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:27:00 - [56] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: LOL. You didn't get past the first paragraph before admitting you think you should be immune to an AV. Nice job. You should never EVER be impossible to take down by a single other player. Ever. He never said anything about immunity, he said tanks should be feared like they once were. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Finn Colman Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 107	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:28:00 - [57] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vodar 540 wrote: Cost is irrelevant? what is the point of having a currency in the game then i would recommend you just leave this thread because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are hell bent on keeping this game from getting anywhere. And my tank does cost more than AV I clearly know a lot more than you. For instance, you're crying that you absolutely have to run away to survive. Whereas AV doesn't always have that option. Vehicles outright kill infantry (given proper circumstance), and they don't always have the opportunity to escape. Furthermore, vehicle users can bail from their vehicles and possibly survive or die in awkward ways, continuing to deny opponents from actually getting credit for killing them. Boring, "properly fitted" vehicles are STILL overpowered today, even with some nerfs to bring them back into line a bit. I think I fixed most of that for you, although I can't really insert the part where you actually respond to the question of how cost is irrelevant. You have a very absolutist way of phrasing everything, and you are obviously lacking in observation skills. Personally, I feel the main problem with the Vehicle/AV imbalance is that vehicles really do lack a purpose. This became very obvious to me when I played Planetside 2 for the first time, where it seemed that vehicles have a few different roles, and the least of which was slaughtering infantry. One of the first things I did when I played PS2 was lead an armor column (I don't even consider driving tanks in Dust, because I find them rather dull and I have always liked flight). Our primary role, was to act as mobile and flexible cover for advancing infantry, and to destroy advancing enemy armor. The only time I engaged infantry was when they were wearing a vehicle-grade mech suit. Most AI weapons equipped to vehicles are primarily for defending the vehicle, it's passengers, and little else. If it isn't used as cover, anti-armor, or anti-air it is used as a very effective troop transport. When I played PS2 it was like a war, not just a bunch of isolated battles. You had to use an ATV or at least rely on a decent vehicle operator just to fight in PS2 (because walking halfway across a continent is just absurd). Most of this, I think, is owed to the fact that the battles have a fairly large number of people and the fact that you aren't just fighting over one objective, but a whole continent. Dust is a bit too small, symmetrical, simple, and incomplete, and the EVE link is minimal. If it weren't for the simple economics of Dust I think I would rather just play PS2. PSA: Tell players to terminate in order to access mCRUs.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2725	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:28:00 - [58] - Quote Atiim wrote: This post makes me want to cry. Not because it's probably going to give me cancer, but because I already promised not to troll Pilots until tomorrow. Why couldn't you have posted it then? As if it's difficult to destroy a tank. I have a Minmando alt, and destroyed a Gorgon in just 3 volleys. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 239	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:30:00 - [59] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I can only laugh at that forum "wisdom", my shield tanked vehicles can tank swarms all day sigh Get your big boy pants on and quit being a sarcastic child. It doesn't make anyone look good. You have to admit, shield tanks are very good against swarms (at least while hardened) as it should be. But because of this, swarmers want their av buffed to deal with this, in which case armor based vehicles get *** on even harder. Armor vehicles are not the problem, its mostly shielded vehicles. I have yet to see a BUFF AV thread or a NERF vehcle thread as of lately so how can you say that? all ive seen is AV is OP threads. i know that my swarms are not good against shield vehicles hardened or not but i QQ for a buff to my weapon of choice. i just find a way around it ie. waiting for the hardnerders to go on cool down then attacking Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
Vodar 540 BLACK INCEPTION 17	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:31:00 - [60] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Your tank may cost 3 times more than that AV fit, but AV is likely to die 3 times more than you. The cost argument is only valid if you take average loss into account, not a single loss comparison. Right now, the most a single AV player (even a proto minmando with proto swarms prof 5 and dual complex damage mods) can do against any competent tanker or dropship pilot is force them to retreat. Kills occur when the tanker or dropship pilot stick around too long and don't kill the AV player first. So the best AV fit in the game can make you retreat while you can kill 90% of infantry players with impunity. If anything, other types of AV need a boost, in no way do tanks need a buff. You honestly think AV needs a buff? so you basically want to have 1 shot swarms and forge guns? If a tank reverses and hits a a wall (which is highly likely because it takes forever to turn your turret to look behind) it will get stuck on that wall. I see experienced tank drivers getting killed regularly by adv AV and ADS pilots dont stand a chance. So you should not comment on something you know nothing about. Dust 514 a game being ruined by its own community



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