Every time you argue against something, be it heavies, tanks or whatever over-powered thing it is you use at the time, you always bring up the same thing: "People just don't want to do it".

Really waters down anything you have to say.

According to my understanding of the system, the statement above is false. In actuality, ifI start the match as a Logi with 24Bw (For the sake of argument) and use up all of my bandwidth to put down equipment in the order -

1. Flux Uplink
2. Gauged Uplink
3. Triage Nanohive
4. Remote explosive

- then when I switch suits, my equipment will be destroyed in reverse order until I reach my new suit's bandwidth. That is to say that I would still have an active Flux and Gauged uplink on the field, but no nanohive or remote explosive. Thus, no one is being "shoe-horned" into a role. If you plan on making dynamic changes to your loadout, then plan your equipment deployment carefully.

For the sake of opening more options, I could agree with a module that increases a suits Bw (up to a maximum suit value of 24) so that players who wish to sacrifice something to keep their equipment alive in a different suit would also have recourse to do so

Yes it does, the BW limitation is defined by the suit as a maximum value there for swapping suits will NOT increase your available BW unless you are moving from a suit with a low max value to a suit with a high max value, but even in that case the two values will not stack. For example someone like myself who has all four racial logis at max will not be able to get any more than 24 BW worth of equipment deployed in any context, the same amount as a player with a single proto logi, and both of us will lose some/all of that deployed equipment if we transition into a non-logi suit.

Firstly, +1 on this proposal, looks well thought out and it is a relief to see equipment spam finally addressed.

Secondly, ARRRGHHHH!!!!

Rattati you have too many balls in the air. I want to give this topic the long thinking, but......

Scout role is still unresolved.
We have yet to see the effects of personal orbitals on equipment spam.
We have yet to experience the reality of the proposed ewar system/equipment sig profile.
Logi racial/role skills still need another pass.
Logi native repair still unresolved.
Logi ewar stats still unresolved.
There are hints of module efficacy-based bonuses coming up in your ewar proposals - heavily pertinent to logis, no?
Basic frames still need looking at - an equipment advantage has been proposed for the basics so pertinent itt also.

Anything any of us propose in this thread without having numbers/experience with the above factors is boolshitting. I love to bs as much as the next merc, but we're trying to get good gamplay out of this so wingin' it prolly ain't the answer.

Also we can see a lot of reasoning itt predicated on 'the scout is too good'....or 'heavy spam'. Absolutely the wrong way to design a system but all those unfinished systems and unresolved issues are increasingly affecting every conversation we have.

If we keep theorycrafting based on mushy, half finished systems we might as well start philosophizing on religion or economics.

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Speaking in terms of very general gameplay, a few things stand out:

Player Engagement
Avoid hard limits on role restriction, allow peeps to play the game the way they want. Allow mercs to contribute to their teams as they see fit based on their assessment of strategic and tactical needs.

Would accomplish this in two ways: Give heavies a minimum bandwidth(say 4 or 8) and allow modest bandwidth increases through a module.

If a player judges that the correct decision for the team is to swap out their uplink scout for a heavy to defend the initial point they can do so without depriving the team of the one or two uplinks they laid down on the way in. This allows the player to feel more engaged and connected to the welfare of the team.

What does the gameplay gain by hard-restricting the contributions of anybody who swaps to heavy? I say it loses.

Player Decisions and Consequences
The BW limit is interesting gameplay. The complaints itt that logis won't be able to keep all their equipment deployed all the time if they swap to other frames is off the mark. It would result in trivial, meaningless decision-making. BW limits result in interesting decision making.

A logi who deploys lots of high BW equipment and then who is forced by the flow of battle to switch to another suit won't loose all of their equipment, and the rule of thumb will be: deploy the important stuff(i.e. uplinks) first and don't deploy any more than you need too. Plan ahead in your deployment pattern so that if you need to swap out of logi, you still have a viable equipment slot/BW capacity on you scout or assault.

Fitting Screen and UI
Must be intuitive and interactive. This **** is getting complicated, even for seasoned old mercs. Must be paralyzing for new peeps. I'd say pure visual infographics, masterfully done, were a bare minimum requirement for accessibility and player engagement.

Realistically, for the people worried about scouts and proxies/RE's, can't we just make it so they are less BW? As in, one RE is nowhere near as useful as 1 uplink, so it should have less bandwidth. I see no reason why every single individual deployed item should have the same exact bandwidth. Same with compact nanohives, why not make them 1/2 the BW of a X-2, for example?

Finally, as for those confused about the mechanic, I'll give an example. I'll make the math easy and not representative of what's in the spreadsheet.


Scenario 1: Start battle in an Amarr Logi suit which has enough BW to drop 6 uplinks or hives. I drop 4 uplinks and 2 hives. I switch to a different logi suit for whatever reason. It has the same amount of BW, 6 pieces. I already have 6 out so if I drop another, the "oldest" one I have from before "pops". I don't make new BW out of thin air because I switched suits.

The amount of equipment you can have out at any time is based on the suit you are in at that moment.

Scenario 2: I'm a spam monkey. I start the match in a min logi suit, which has the BW for 6 uplinks. I drop them all and then hit the supply depot to move on to my l33t cloaked shotty scout. It has enough BW for 3 uplinks. oops! The first 3 uplinks I deployed 'pop'.
My delicious slayer scout tears flow onto the forums where actual logis feed on them.

I still have five more pages of this thread to get through, but I wanted to reiterate a point that I noticed was getting looked over multiple times. Many people have incorrectly assumed that this proposal will shoe-horn people who like to use equipment into Logistic roles under the following premise:

"If I die and switch to a different suit, all of my equipment is destroyed. The only way I can use equipment is to deploy it as a Logi and hide from the battle. Thus, I am forced to either pick one suit class for a whole battle. Why CCP?!"

According to my understanding of the system, the statement above is false. In actuality, ifI start the match as a Logi with 24Bw (For the sake of argument) and use up all of my bandwidth to put down equipment in the order -

1. Flux Uplink
2. Gauged Uplink
3. Triage Nanohive
4. Remote explosive

- then when I switch suits, my equipment will be destroyed in reverse order until I reach my new suit's bandwidth. That is to say that I would still have an active Flux and Gauged uplink on the field, but no nanohive or remote explosive. Thus, no one is being "shoe-horned" into a role. If you plan on making dynamic changes to your loadout, then plan your equipment deployment carefully.

For the sake of opening more options, I could agree with a module that increases a suits Bw (up to a maximum suit value of 24) so that players who wish to sacrifice something to keep their equipment alive in a different suit would also have recourse to do so

Dear Players

Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature.

RE and Prox BW are too high.

- Low down the RE BW to 2
- Low down Prox BW to 1

Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz).

Shouldn't units of bandwidth capacity be in bits per second (Kbps, Mbps, Gbps, etc) instead of cycles per second? My first thought when I see "MHz" is to think "which frequency" or "which channel", instead of "amount of data transfer capacity".

I agree with proxis to 1, but reducing REs is a bad idea. The point to BW is to reduce equipment spam and RE's is a persistent isue vs infantry players and is part of the spam issue. I still say (like I have since REs were introduced ) that the RE and proxy damage profiles need to be flipped. Proxis are anti-vehicle so need to hit harder than the triggered counter parts that target infantry more often than not.

Well, a few things about that, first the direct method described is stacked rather than objective.
In the game under a BW mechanic you would not need to take the time to destroy those deployed items nor would you be facing a team free of the same mechanical constraints you are operating under.

Leaving that aside what you describe is frankly non-problematic, those players in as logi stay as logi and actually play the role as opposed to the current method of spawn once, deploy everything ditch the logi suit and play only heavy on that point defense throughout the match from then on, because really once you have already self logi'ed rep hives and uplinks why wouldn't you just play heavy on that point? And if the best way to run logi is often to not even be in logi suit for the majority of the match then what is the value/point of the suit/role?

Shouldn't units of bandwidth capacity be in bits per second (Kbps, Mbps, Gbps, etc) instead of cycles per second? My first thought when I see "MHz" is to think "which frequency" or "which channel", instead of "amount of data transfer capacity".

Bandwidth in Eve is measured in Mbit/sec (an encrypted control channel between the ship and each drone)

Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot?

In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot.

If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined.

I agree with proxis to 1, but reducing REs is a bad idea. The point to BW is to reduce equipment spam and RE's is a persistent isue vs infantry players and is part of the spam issue. I still say (like I have since REs were introduced ) that the RE and proxy damage profiles need to be flipped. Proxis are anti-vehicle so need to hit harder than the triggered counter parts that target infantry more often than not.