There's plenty of logi-buffing discussion in Cross' thread, this is a separate but related issue. This should be seen as a 'fix' to EQ spam, particularly by non-logis, not a specific nerf to scouts or the only or even primary means by which to buff logi's.

(wasn't done editing my post :P)

But that's a fair point too. The fact everyone can drop a ton of equipment is also a huge issue.

So what would you say -- as a logi you think you need a fair chunk of bandwidth. But Assaults, scouts, and commandos should only have enough to drop 1 piece of gear about?

Am I wrong thinking 1 logi should not be able to set up coverage for a 5 point map alone? Or did I misunderstand your post.

Honestly the idea of an assault, scout, or commando being able to have only 1 piece of gear (or 2/3 if they are explosive in nature) doesn't bother me as an assault. Nor would the idea of a logi going up in equipment to compensate that limit bother me much. I'm just not quite sure what would be optimum while not 'overly easy to break with tons of stuff that the enemy can't reasonably clear out thereby reducing tactics.'

To your first point, I don't think that and I wouldn't. As proposed, assaults /commandos can have 4 EQ at proto, scouts 3.

The second: maybe I should be able to as an Amarr logi, maybe not. But if I do, that's pretty much all the EQ I can use so someone else (cal logi) will need to bring the nanohives.

This will probably need tweaking and iteration, for sure, but the overall premise is quite good.

Scouts having a second EQ slot isnt creating equipment spam.

Logi suits fitted for the purpose of spamming equipment are the main source of the spam.

It comes back once you are back on the field, but unfortunately, yes, it's usually not possible for you to take advantage of your own bonus when respawning. No question that's lame, but allegedly a lot of that code got fixed with 1.9 (believe it when we see it, I know).\

The mechanic should be that the bonus disappears (or BW changes) only when you spawn in a new suit, not on death. The assumption, again, for what it's worth, is that this will be the case. Otherwise, yes, chaos and ragequtting will be the order of the day.

Any why does the equipment pop if the scout has to switch fits, unless its to a sentinel? Or anyone else to switch fits for that matter? Everyone else can have some equipment out.

It's not like the uplink pops every time you switch suits no matter what, or even when you switch to a suit that doesn't have it equipped. It only pops if you run out of BW.

Scout drops uplink.... uh oh, I need to use a commando for AV or something... the uplink stays exactly where it is. Unless you want to drop a bunch of triage hives to stand on, in which case you have to think about if you really need all of them at once.

Logi drops all 8 pieces of EQ. Switches to different logi suit with scanner/rep tool/needle. EQ stays right where it is. I don't see where the "zero" flexibility comes from.

I agree. And as of two days ago when I last played my Holy Amarr Templar Logi the bonus did not work when I was waiting in the heavens to spawn anew.
So, It still looks broke to me.

So any chances of Logis not dieing when sneezed at if we are to be forced to stay in the expensive suits?

So I read through the thread and looked at the spreadsheet, and I don't know if I fully understand how this works.

REs are set at 4, with a standard scout at 4.

If I lay out one RE, does that equal 4 and laying out another would negate the first?

Or, because they are both the same piece of EQ, would I be able to lay out the rest?

I am fine for not letting scouts infringe on Logi territory, but if I can't lay out 3 std REs on a Std or Adv scout, that is going to be a problem.

We do not have enough people per match to start locking people into set roles.

only 16 players means you need to be able to switch to the role that is needed. The only reason I support this is because it somewhat nerfs scout logis but it does not address the issue of scout medics who are keeping everyone alive as well as lighting up the entire enemy team.

TL;DR The real issue is at best partially getting fixed so I am done even trying to give input that will never be seen. Fix scout logis before you try to nerf already **** logi suits.


@CCP STOP LISTENING TO THE DAMN FORUMS. You can join any channel and there will be plenty of players there to give you issues and ideas. This would go much further as half the forum trolls dont play more than one match a week anyway. How much AUR does a dev token cost? I would be glad to pay for his 2 hours of time to sit in one of our channels with a few selected players to give an informed opinion of **** in this game.

So I read through the thread and looked at the spreadsheet, and I don't know if I fully understand how this works.

REs are set at 4, with a standard scout at 4.

If I lay out one RE, does that equal 4 and laying out another would negate the first?

Or, because they are both the same piece of EQ, would I be able to lay out the rest?

I am fine for not letting scouts infringe on Logi territory, but if I can't lay out 3 std REs on a Std or Adv scout, that is going to be a problem.

lol, asking to buy a Dev so you can pump him full of trash and a biased POV

So go tell the Barbershop to accept a ******* nerf, an actual ******* nerf, OR to quit fighting other frames getting actual ******* buffs so we can get some damm balance already AND then see wtf is up.

Every RE you place counts as 4 BW. So if you place 2 REs you have 8 spent. Say you have 16 BW. You can spend 8 more. Any spent after that will cause the first RE placed (I think) to go pop.

Although come to think of it, if you could throw REs REALLy fast, you could throw 5 REs, into a crowd causing the first RE you threw to pop before the 4 second timer on REs has expired and blow them early! o.O MUAHAHAHHAHA

All joking aside, why would it be a problem if scouts can only lay 1 or 2 REs?

Every RE you place counts as 4 BW. So if you place 2 REs you have 8 spent. Say you have 16 BW. You can spend 8 more. Any spent after that will cause the first RE placed (I think) to go pop.

Although come to think of it, if you could throw REs REALLy fast, you could throw 5 REs, into a crowd causing the first RE you threw to pop before the 4 second timer on REs has expired and blow them early! o.O MUAHAHAHHAHA

All joking aside, why would it be a problem if scouts can only lay 1 or 2 REs?

We have suggested MANY nerfs.

With particular regard to EQ, I have suggested reducing all carried inventory by 1 and giving Logis the bonus of carrying one more.

We have for a very long time advocated for a shift of dampening and other bonuses towards and increased speed penalties for just scouts on armor plates.

That cloak range nerf (that I have loathed since it was brought up), was from the Barbershop.

I suggest getting your facts straight before making claiming that the Barbershop doesn't ask for balance.

In order to get balance, you have to identify the problem and directly fix the problem, not work your way around it while fixing nothing and reducing the viability of scouts roles that are not overperforming.

Funny, since all I've seen in any other thread on the topic are your reps claiming any infringement into ewar as rendering scouts "useless", red-herring evidence arguements, and protracted claims to entitlement of elements you were endowed with in 1.8 but never entitled to.

Could you take this to GD or War Room or something. Not really staying on topic here.

Yes.

1) Tanks don't explode with 1 RE. Neither does an LAV.

2) We use them for point defense. Often cover multiple objectives with them. The catch being if I detonate upon seeing an objective hacked, I blow ALL the REs. Even if that objective were fluxed first. Its a reasonable trade off.

3) This still doesn't fix the problem of Frisbee REs. Most complaints arise from this tactic.

I don't see how nerfing people who use multiple REs as intended, while not fixing the Frisbee RE thrower complaints, and reducing the AV capacity of scouts effectively nerfs Slayer Scouts.

In the end, that mentality only increases the viability of that play style vs more legitimate scout roles.

No, a playerbase hell-bent on exploiting any possible angle of advantage under the umbrella excuse of "Well, this works so it must be intended so it must be working as intended" is the source of the spam.

-Limits could be placed on logi suit entry, THAT would limit spam without turning DUSTs logistical side into PaperBoy514.
-Access denial for equipment deployment in certain areas, like say surrounding supply depots, THAT would limit spam without turning DUSTs flexible side into a no returns/refunds/exchanges or warranties scenario.
-Equipment deployment caps based on quantities deployed could be used that wouldn't turn DUSTs tactical reinforcement side into a constant shell-game of Robbing Peter to Pay Paul.
-Equipment usage timers could be enacted so if those links/hives that got placed out aren't used within an acceptable time-period their internal battery expires and they "pop", neccessitating resupply or placement without penalizing forward-thinking field strategy or current condition flexibility



Players are always looking to exploit and take advantage. THAT'S why it should be Mission#1 to ensure existing game elements are balanced in and of themselves BEFORE looking to rewrite fundamentals hoping to achieve balance afterwards. To not just adds opportunity for more imbalance, worse overall gameplay and compounds the difficulty in trying to fix the elements which were flawed in the first place.

This has already happened, and the proof is in the rampant imbalances allowed to persist continually with little to no improvement that doesn't simultaneously degrade other game elements.

Dear Players

Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature.

* We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate
* We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay
* We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment
* We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so
* We want Equipment diversity

Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent.

Equipment Limit
The main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE.

Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling.

Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£.

Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others.

In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario.

This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field.

Quality over Quantity
We want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time.

Progression
Logistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment.

Logistics vs other Dropsuits
One of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore.

Diversity
We can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either.

Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements.

Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly.

Again, your feedback and input is appreciated.