Meaning in a public match where no one is placing Drop Uplinks I canGÇÖt in good contentious play a Sentinel.

Are you going to take away my ability to hack objectives next?

Dear Players

Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature.

* We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate
* We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay
* We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment
* We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so
* We want Equipment diversity

Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent.

Equipment Limit
The main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE.

Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling.

Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£.

Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others.

In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario.

This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field.

Quality over Quantity
We want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time.

Progression
Logistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment.

Logistics vs other Dropsuits
One of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore.

Diversity
We can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either.

Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements.

Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly.

Again, your feedback and input is appreciated.

aweful idea.. as a logi i already micro manage alot.. and sometimes i even have to flip to an AV role cause other scrubs are too slow and stupid to do so and i should not be penalized for doing this!

how about this Rattatti.. dont even touch equipment yet.. but give the "new orbitals" a chance to see if they balance the problem out or not, got it?!

Excellent news
+1

A few Points:

UI:
I agree with Cat Merc and everybody else in this thread that we need to have a clear and functional way of tracking current BW usage. Both in game and switching suites.

Switching Suites:
I would also like to have a short (30-60sec) timespan before the equipment is destroyed when spawning in / switching suites. This will enable players to spawn on their own uplinks (once), even if they spawn in a lower BW suite. It would also allow you to quickly correct a mistake when switching to the incorrect suite at a supply depot. The UI should reflect this "overloading" and warn of impending destruction.

Skills:
I would also link available BW to the logistics skill instead of STD, ADV and PRO suites. The suites themselves should have a standard value based on frame, regardless if they are Standard or Proto. Apart from the Dropsuite logistic skill, a new skill can be created under "Engineering" (which is feeling very lonely compared to Electronics), called "Bandwidth Modulation" (or something), which can increase the available BW for all suites and frames, including of course Logistics.

This will have several benefits:
- Level 2 and 4 of Logistic class will progress your Logistic role further, even if you can't fit Proto yet.
- Since no other suite apart from Logistics increases Equipment slots per tier, there is no logic in increasing BW per tier for those suites.
- More skills to dump SP in.
- It will allow a support minded players (with "Bandwidth Modulation" 5) to not kill of all their equipment even if they choose to spawn in a BPO, Basic suite or even a Sentinel.

I am not advocating that a Scout can take a Logistic role full time since the base value for Light frames should be low (as you suggest). Even at max skill, other suites should not match a level 1 Logistic player without any points in "Bandwidth Modulation".

And that's -exactly- the point. If a player can out-maneuver the heavy he's -supposed to die- and they have no problem with that because we ditched slower turn speeds (justifiably so) a long time ago. A Heavy can whip around just as fast as anyone else and they have enough defense to be able to react whilst getting shot at but not only that they can apply so much DPS that they can often kill the person shooting them before they go down.

And yes, the HMG is a counter to mass driver shelling -because they receive a splash damage reduction-. Cover doesn't matter within optimal range because they just can hold down the trigger and walk over to you. Long range is about the only one that makes sense in that list but sentinels also have damage resistance bonuses so only a handful of weapons really apply there and it's entirely circumstantial. EVEN STILL, it's just the -one- heavy we're talking about, not a group.

Let me ask you this; what is the ideal weapon a player is supposed to counter an HMG with in the short-to-mid range? Another HMG?

No.

Stick to your job and quit trying to solve every problem at once. If your team is ass, then that's the end of it.

I'm liking what I see thus far. These numbers will have little effect on how I play my roles, I will just need to be more careful when switching to my AV fit to avoid losing a key uplink or remote from my Logi fit. As far as how I play my Logi, the only suit that will be effected is my Sever Uplink Spam fit. The only folks I see QQing so far seem to be equipment spammers. I need to run some more numbers, but so far so good.


If this is the case, what is to stop a player from switching between all four Logi suits to spam gear? Is this limit suit based, or player based? If it is suit based, then I could still spam all the live long day if I wanted to.


Question for Rattati, do we have evidence that limiting the spam will actually increase frame rate and overall game performance?

Dear Players

Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature.

* We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate
* We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay
* We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment
* We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so
* We want Equipment diversity

Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent.

Equipment Limit
The main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE.

Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling.

Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£.

Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others.

In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario.

This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field.

Quality over Quantity
We want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time.

Progression
Logistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment.

Logistics vs other Dropsuits
One of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore.

Diversity
We can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either.

Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements.

Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly.

Again, your feedback and input is appreciated.

equipment bandwidth is a bad idea.. i as a logi will not be able to use a supply depo to switch to an AV role combat a target then switch back if all my equipment down to a certain level goes BOOM. it will be the final nail in the coffin for logi

I understand that this is the,entire point, i'm just explaining why i believe its a bad point to make.

To me, its akin to either deleting every fit in my inventory to run unplinks and hives, or deleteing all my uplinks and hives suits to run the other fits in my inventory.

Cross your a Logi, i invite you and everyone else who are so inclined to play test it in Faction Warefare. Bring out your equipment, and every time you want to change suit types, put down equipment , or respawn in different type go back and shoot each and every uplink and hive you put down. Great tactical value i'm sure.

I can imagine the coms now

"why don't we have uplinks at the point? Did you spawn in a heavy"

"sorry dude they were rushing the point so i ju-"

"Never mind! Jesus, okay regroup at the redline. Next time just stay in you amarr logi suit. One more thing"

"what?"

"dont drop nano hives again. Just come back in with a rep tool and an injector, don't bother with anything else;"



Sounds like fun....at least i can always fall back on being pilot....oh wait.

With that said, I think that the current Logistics bonuses need some rework, or other modifications to not hamper Amaar and Caldari too much.

Aeon, a lighter suit can use its mobility and radar superiority to achieve the correct geographical or position based advantage required to beat a heavy.

The reality is that most people in lighter suits do not. They want to run and gun, oblivious to their surroundings and twitch shoot their way to the top of the killboard like a 13 year old on redbull. Heavies stop them from doing that, and there are a lot of people with the mentality that it should be both allowed, and promoted.

It rewards physical reflexes more than the use of human intelligence. I do not find that to be good gameplay. You clearly do.

What more can be said?

At first i thought this would be bad, read it and its genius. Assaults can carry 1 nano hive and resupply themselves and logis can drop a bunch. But does this stop people from having 6 nano hives on 3 suits and placing 18 down?

It is a suit based maximum limit, so if you swap from one 24 BW proto logi to another 24 BW proto logi you will still only have a max BW total of 24, if you spawn anything less than a proto logi your max BW will drop and your deployed equipment will be removed accordingly.

I guess I'm still unclear as to how this works.

If you are saying it is Dropsuit based, then it's bandwidth per dropsuit? As in, Spawn Amarr logi, spam uplinks, then spawn Cal Logi and spam hives because I have another 24 BW? This is how it all works now.

Or is it bandwidth per person, no matter what race or dropsuit you spawn? As in I spawn Amarr Logi, spam uplinks, then spawn in Cal Logi and spam hives, but all my Amarr Logi uplinks pop. I'm thinking this is how it will work, which is awesome.