Almost all the gameplayI do is logi. And I think this change will impact me negatively. Please hear me out:

I understand that there are concerns about "equipment spam". By this, im sure they mean when people put down 50 nanohives around a supply depot. But thats not where I get any WP from because I dont do that.

Here is what I do when im playing Dust:

I spawn in, I have to get out and get my uplinks out fast. If its Line Harvest, I got to go and place uplinks on the roofs so that if my team suffers a bunch of setbacks, we have a place outside of the redline that is safe to regroup and relaunch from. It allows a outmatched team to keep trying instead of being redlined and waiting out the clock. If its Fracture Road then I prefer to have one on the pipes, as well as at locations I-7 and C-7. This creates a "flexible front line" and allows a team to reground and encircle an enemy who has the objective in Domination.

I need more that just 1 uplink, and I always place a Remote Mine on my uplink after I plant it as a trap to any shotgun eager scouts. Heck, sometimes when I know my team is about to be driven from an area, ill plant some nanohives with Remote Mines on top as we retreat, knowing that victorious squads get careless sometimes. Ive taken out entire squads with this kind of trickery. Im a player who plays 99% solo, i been playing for almost a year........this is going to curtail my creativity. So far ive been doing well because Ive had the flexibility to. Even LAVs, every time I use one, place some REs on the seat beside me, so if it gets captured I can get revenge on whoever killed me and stole it. Which brings me to my next point:


Proximity mines: Yeah, I use them. I should mention i have mines Lv5. I can slow down, scare, or destroy heavy or light vehicles. This is part of my job. I supply the frontline. In order for me to do that, its preferable if I can prevent an enemy vehicle assault on my teams rear or flank. I cant have the same suit with 3 sets of mines that I have for my 2 sets of uplinks and 1 set of RE. I need two different suits.

Its not "throwing down cheap equipment either". My proto proxymine fit costs something like 70,000SIK. And I dont always get to get away with it either. Sometimes an enemy tank or a scout with an early start catches me.


Plus after all the equipment is down, then what do I do? I no longer have a role. Right now I can take a dropship, land in a hotzone, throw down some triage nanohvives, and then blast off. For player who play in squads, its more feasible to follow someone with a repair tool or revive team mates. I cant always do that. Im always a solo player. When my job is to supply, I need to be able to deliver all these resources on time without compromising the rest of my supply chain. There have been times when im the only logi on a 16 man team. Imagine how much worse it would be with limits. If you want to say that "if you deploy stuff in a logi suit you cant use anything else except a "logistics" suit," then I would accept.



How about before everything gets changed, try a few small hotfixes:

-Prevent equipment from being deployed within a certain radius of a supply depot. A large enough one because the supply depot provides nanites so there is no need for equipment near it.
-Increase the range and radius of flux grenades so that they can be thrown into high places
-Increase the hitbox vertically to 0.3M on equipment so it can be targeted easier (exception: proxy mines)
-Introduce a mass driver that fires flux rounds (ok maybe thats not a hotfix)


Thankyou for considering my concerns.

Just want to add, from the perspective of someone who uses re's on a scout to take out vehicles, I generally find most HAV's need 4 re's to make certain they pop.

I think there should also be a blueberry "here's how you drop uplinks" educational video added to the EULA agreement screen

Because it takes Three to take out a HAVGǪ And it is not an easy task to do.
If a scout can only lay one or two, then it is only encouraging their use as an anti Infantry weapon.

Yes.

1) Tanks don't explode with 1 RE. Neither does an LAV.

2) We use them for point defense. Often cover multiple objectives with them. The catch being if I detonate upon seeing an objective hacked, I blow ALL the REs. Even if that objective were fluxed first. Its a reasonable trade off.

3) This still doesn't fix the problem of Frisbee REs. Most complaints arise from this tactic.

I don't see how nerfing people who use multiple REs as intended, while not fixing the Frisbee RE thrower complaints, and reducing the AV capacity of scouts effectively nerfs Slayer Scouts.

In the end, that mentality only increases the viability of that play style vs more legitimate scout roles.

I love what you do Rattati!

I like this with one addendum based on !!!the complaint about tank fighting further below!!!; if you do this where RE's are that difficult to deploy by scouts:
Options:
1a) Set RE's at a BW of 2. It'll interrupt uplinks, but allow the allotment of RE's to be available.
1b) Make RE's tap shields and armor at the same time.
2) Make anti-tank RE's, so that one or two are devastation, but poor against infantry.
3) Provide some version of alpha damage against tanks. (Point blank anti-tank that isn't suicide-knifing with nova's)

I understand that changes have a lot of other considerations, like proxies, Uplinks, and making equipment more scalable on radar...

---

One complaint as a scout: RE's costing 4 per a unit And STD scouts being 4 BW. I thought these changes with BW were to stop equipment spam? Well, Uplinks are the spam, not RE's.

I'm a hateful Anti-vehicle scout with RE's. Please don't make it this difficult for STD to take out a tank like this. Few but a cloaked scout can get close enough to tanks to RE them.

It takes at least 2 Basic RE's and a flux grenade to significantly wound(read: almost destroy) a milita/basic fit tank. That entails sneaking up inside of a constantly shifting target window, throwing the RE's, fluxing the shields off and detonating. One RE is going to tickle and then they drive off(Or backup and kill you.)

Taking out careless tanks with RE's will be very hard unless you are running a protoscout, which sets the curve very high against STD scouts in turn because Proto-scouts have fitting room for proto-RE's anyway of which their 12 BW can deploy them all too. They would just gun it forward or back up and gun you down if you're caught.

Those types of radii would be great, but from what Rattati has told me, not something they are able to do... although that was pre-1.9, so maybe the new code allows it. If it did, yes, that would be great, too.

The complaints about RE's and proxies make a lot of sense, so I would propose the folllowing change Rattati:

1) Proxy BW = 1, RE BW =2

or

2) Give scouts a 50% reduction to RE/prox BW so they get the above values (For those who hate the frisbee scout RE's, this doesn't affect it either way, that only takes 1. )

Diversity
We can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either.

After reading this thread I have determined 2 things.

1. Scouts think they should have the capability to do everything with the same suit SOLO. They are not OP and should not be forced to change how they play, everybody else should have to.

2. The players who truly play a logi are going to suffer from this, because the tourists who insist on vomiting equipment just for WP.

Equipment spam is the problem that BW is supposed to fix. I think BW is NOT the answer, there are much better ways to do this and the ideas in Cross's Logistics thread are the most solid I have seen. I know that there are no comments by a dev there, but I also know that you have been reading it.

It is very seldom when running with a squad that I need more than what my suit can put out at one time. But a player should not be punished for using multiple suits to change with the situation. The problem is not that one player uses multiple types of equipment it is that currently they are allowed to put large amounts of the same type of equipment in one place, mostly around supply depots. The fix to this is to put a non deployable radius around equipment of the same types. Granted one problem is repair hives with nano hives needing to be close for repair and resupply not a bad thing.

Uplinks are the exceptions if you want good fall back points you need to put out some well placed uplinks. Not 5 in a line out in the open on the way to the objectives. WP whores know what I am talking about.

There should not be any need to put hives anywhere near a supply depot. For that matter no equipment should be allowed within a determined radius of said depot. Drop links included, your better off putting them in a better location so your team can spawn in and retake the depot.

My last is RE Spam:

RE's are equipment, they are not grenades, as such they should not be resupplied by nano hives. It is a broken mechanic that you need to fix. RE's are a valuable resource that are overly abused, and the proposed BW is not going to fix them. RE frisbee throwers, yes I am pointing directly at you mister scout, only use one at a time. Throw, detonate, resupply, rinse and repeat until hive is extinguished. If you can not breach the area with 3 RE's then it is time to try another tactic, or use both your EQ slots for RE's and have six, but no cloak or hive.

^ This. All of this. Spot-on Goo. But too late. Bandwidth is going to happen. Devs don't put something out like this unless their going to do it. Am afraid all they will listen to is how to tweak the numbers on Bandwidth.

After reading this thread I have determined 2 things.

1. Scouts think they should have the capability to do everything with the same suit SOLO. They are not OP and should not be forced to change how they play, everybody else should have to.

2. The players who truly play a logi are going to suffer from this, because the tourists who insist on vomiting equipment just for WP.

Equipment spam is the problem that BW is supposed to fix. I think BW is NOT the answer, there are much better ways to do this and the ideas in Cross's Logistics thread are the most solid I have seen. I know that there are no comments by a dev there, but I also know that you have been reading it.

It is very seldom when running with a squad that I need more than what my suit can put out at one time. But a player should not be punished for using multiple suits to change with the situation. The problem is not that one player uses multiple types of equipment it is that currently they are allowed to put large amounts of the same type of equipment in one place, mostly around supply depots. The fix to this is to put a non deployable radius around equipment of the same types. Granted one problem is repair hives with nano hives needing to be close for repair and resupply not a bad thing.

Uplinks are the exceptions if you want good fall back points you need to put out some well placed uplinks. Not 5 in a line out in the open on the way to the objectives. WP whores know what I am talking about.

There should not be any need to put hives anywhere near a supply depot. For that matter no equipment should be allowed within a determined radius of said depot. Drop links included, your better off putting them in a better location so your team can spawn in and retake the depot.
.

Equipment spam is the problem that BW is supposed to fix. I think BW is NOT the answer, there are much better ways to do this and the ideas in Cross's Logistics thread are the most solid I have seen. I know that there are no comments by a dev there, but I also know that you have been reading it.

The "inactive radius" thing has already been suggested (by me at least 15 times, by others at least as many). Per Rattati it is not something they can do with the game's code. Great idea, but not technically feasible, unfortunately.

I like most of your thoughts, particularly #3. Unfortunately, John Demonsbane says that the Devs told him that it was not easy to do.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2438711#post2438711

I know, it seems like it could be combined with code from flux grenades, but...

Anyway this thread is not about alternatives to Equipment Bandwidth as a means to solve problems. It is about the specifics of Equipment Bandwidth. Equipment Bandwidth is going to happen. It has been determined to be an ingenious idea. We should stay on task and only talk about how much bandwidth different suits will get.

BS.
If they can code in the inability to deploy a vehicle into an open area of a city socket, they can code in the inability to deploy equipment around a supply depot. Period.

I did not know that bandwidth was guaranteed to happen since I rarely look here, I just saw a post about it and was interested in what it was.

Just for the record bandwidth as explained in OP seems like a bad and ineloquent "fix" for a small problem when their are so many other issues that would make the game so much better. CCP should prioritize issues based on severity not whims and OP should play more to be able to rate them better!

I do not know why this has gotten traction but think about all the other things that ccp should be fixing instead that are easy.

OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other?

The time it takes to implement the current solution is more time than it would take to implement a simpler more reasonable solution not fix.

Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat.

Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat.

Exactly, BW is less binary than "let's stop stuff being placed here".

Dear Players

Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature.


Quality over Quantity
We want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers.