Like Juno Tristan said " RE frisbee technique is throw then detonate, rinse and repeat. ", also the current RE already need 4 second to detonate, so I don't think RE spam is a big issue.

But the 4bw for each RE will limit the AV potential, and forget about jihad. Even with 2bw, no one has enough bw to stack 7 RE except logi.

Quick idea just to toss out, but if the goal is to stop logis deploying passive support items and then swapping suits why not make the equipment pop if they spawn in in a suit that doesn't have a copy of the equipment? Then maybe find a way to limit the amount deployable per suit, maybe according to the highest "level" (not meta level, but standard/militia get one copy, adv gets 2 proto gets 3)
So for example a suit decides to equip an advanced uplink and a militia uplink would still be limited to two deployable at a time due to adv being his highest level, make the same rules with the hives, maybe allow double the number for Rex's...

Heck maybe you could switch the caldari and amarr bonus to possibly add a flat 1 activatable bonus at levels 1, 3, and 5 as well as the existing bonuses to further inscentivise their use...
Sorry if any of this is a retread...

Could the bandwidth be expressed in Mb instead of MHz. An amount of data makes a bit more sense than the frequency it would be transmitted on when discussing limits.

I like the idea a lot -- just lookin at the numbers:

Say you have a BW of 32 (for some Pro logis).

That means about 8 pieces of equipment (extremely simplified). Is that what ya'll envision in terms of quantity? Seems just a tad high to me -- but I'm not a logi so I really don't know.

With respect Fox being stuck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point.

What was not made clear in the original post is that this change is intended to deal with multiple issues:
1)Decrease Equipment Spam
2)Discourage Role Switching. Increase the commitment to the role you spawn into.
3)Nerf Scouts who act as fast Logi.
4)Nerf Sentinels who try to get around their lack of an equipment slot.
5)Buff Caldari/Amarr Logi, provided they stick to their role.

With respect Cross, when I made my earlier posts I was working off the assumption that the sole purpose of this change was to reduce Equipment Spam by not allowing Logi to drop more than one suitGÇÖs worth of equipment, and to prevent Logi from switching to other classes while maintaining a full Logi load out of deployed equipment.

What was not made clear in the original post is that this change is intended to deal with multiple issues:
1)Decrease Equipment Spam
2)Discourage Role Switching. Increase the commitment to the role you spawn into.
3)Nerf Scouts who act as fast Logi.
4)Nerf Sentinels who try to get around their lack of an equipment slot.
5)Buff Caldari/Amarr Logi, provided they stick to their role.

It was not clear initially in RattatiGÇÖs post that discouraging Role Switching was an intended consequence of the introduction of Bandwidth. In a way this will help new players who only have the skill points to specialize in one role, as it will be easier for them to compete against Vets who have mastered multiple roles if the game discourages role switching during matches. It will be an adjustment, but I can accept the Sentinel not having any Bandwidth.


What I still have a concern with:

I am concerned about the Bandwidth nerf to Scouts. First, I think that Scouts are out of Balance because they can be made to be too robust without major drawbacks, and because the Assault suit, which is supposed to act as the Counter to Scouts, does not have the tools to counter Scouts. Second, I fell these Bandwidth changes are trying to nerf some of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Role, which is operating and insertion behind enemy lines, and CQC AV work. Placing Drop Uplinks behind enemy lines is part of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Role! Placing Remote Explosives on tanks is one of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Roles. (Before sticky Remotes, the Remotes were placed on the road and the Scout hid and activated the Remotes when the tank rolled past, to begin their ambush.)

Scouts also have to operate independently. While an Assault suit can rely on equipment provided by other members of their squad, a Scout operates independently much of the time. Having two slots gives a Scout more resources to work with, having the Bandwidth of a suit with only one equipment slot would give a Scout the equipment abilities of one half of two Assault suits. (2/1=1) I think that is reasonable.

Having the Band width of a suit with only one equipment slot would also define the difference between the Scout and the Logi. A logi can deploy all their equipment at the same time, while a Scout would have to choose between one type at full deployment capacity, or two different types of equipment at half deployment capacity.

Nerfing the Scout to have less than a single equipment slot suit is unwarranted. It is not an appropriate way to nerf Scouts. The difference between Scouts and Logi, besides Logi being able to deploy more equipment, is that Scouts are supposed to be more fragile than Logi and not appropriate for use on the front line in head to head combat situations. The fact is that Scouts are not as Fragile as they are supposed to be. Or more accurately, Armour Plate stacking Scouts have more survivability than Logi, and have therefore supplanted Logi in the Logi role on the front lines. Having Armour Plate reduce strafe speed is the type of nerf we need to balance Scouts, not limiting their Bandwidth!

And to be clear, I donGÇÖt play Scout. (I would like to, but I suck at it for many reasons.) So I am looking at this from a wider game perspective.

Aeon, a lighter suit can use its mobility and radar superiority to achieve the correct geographical or position based advantage required to beat a heavy.

The reality is that most people in lighter suits do not. They want to run and gun, oblivious to their surroundings and twitch shoot their way to the top of the killboard like a 13 year old on redbull. Heavies stop them from doing that, and there are a lot of people with the mentality that it should be both allowed, and promoted.

First off scouts "ScoutGÇÖs Core Role" is not nor ever intended to be AV. This was just a mere side effect of them getting the extra equipment slot. They got this slot so they could fit a cloak, place an uplink, or whip out the scanner to light up the area for the squad. Then they also got all the ewar as well and their passive scans made the active scanner pointless for a scout to carry. *edit* with the recent/soon cloak fixes will see less desirability of the cloak.

I do agree with everything else you posted and really agree with plates reducing strafe speed is needed as a small step to unf*****g the battlefield balance. Strafing across the field needs serious work period. Scout speed tanking should be viable but this matrix bullet dodging and hopping above a grenade/MD rounds needs to be brought down some.

Honestly that's a false corollary, hacking is not a role just as the ability to kill at all is not a role.
One cannot balance a team game around always providing for solo player utility within a totally disorganized team.
A meaningful role cannot be based on something everyone in every fit can do.
If every fit had 4 equip slots, an heavy weapon, 2x LW, a racial LW buff and eWar to the gills there would be no diversity, no choice, no specialization. These changes do not in any way take away your ability to do more than one thing in a match, they just reduce your ability to do more than one thing at the same time.
So a proper corollary would be taking away your ability to hack while shooting red dots at the same time and if that were in question - rather than the current baseline - yes I would support that as a change also.

There are many metrics showing a trend towards over proliferation of heavy use and thus cries for a nerf are steadily increasing, I for one would much rather see heavies not be able to 'self logi' than see their role as point defense crippled.
And I say this as someone who as proto in all four Sentinel suits. This will meaningfully effect how I play the game at present, especially those days when I'm running solo, but that challenge for me does not mean it's a bad change for the health of the game.

0.02 ISK
Cross

2:[/u] The second would be that equipment wouldn't self destruct but would rather deactivate if you don't have the bandwidth on your current suit(disabling visuals - no uplink light, no hive bubble). If the newest deployed equipment is destroyed or depleted the next newest would become active after a short waiting period(lets say 10 seconds). This should still help with performance issues(I believe it's caused by the concurrent VFX), and equipment spammers will think twice about spamming useless equipment. This should also allow a logistics player to switch out to another role for a short time as needed without being harshly penalized.

I have used Scouts for AV long before they had a second equipment slot.

Low profile = less chance you get scanned by the HAV = higher probability of a kill

At first i thought this would be bad, read it and its genius. Assaults can carry 1 nano hive and resupply themselves and logis can drop a bunch. But does this stop people from having 6 nano hives on 3 suits and placing 18 down?

+1 for this adjustment!

Please do not pop deployed equipment when we change suits. Just deactivate it.

My proposal to simplify the whole thing would be 10 deployables hard cap for all suits.

10 Active for Logi

3 Active for Assault and Commando

2 Active for Scouts

1 Active for Sentinels

If you deploy more then 10, the first gets destroyed.

If you change suits, stuff gets deactivated, if you change back, it get's reactivated.

RE's + Proxies count as 1/3rd equipment. Max 6 each.

Also Max 6 uplinks (8 for Amarr logi) and max 6 Hives (8 for Caldari Logi). This would help much more with spam than anything else. It's usually just one or two players who spam the hell out of everything in a match.


We would need a deployed equipment counter, to keep track of destroyed equipment. (Since we don't see the deactivated stuff on the map anymore)...
On the spawn screen, we should be able to see stuff popping up and away, when we change suits in the selector. This would allow to go for a Logi, if we need to reactivate a certain uplink, that would not be available with another suit.

With these adjustments, we would still be able to plant strategic uplinks. Without loosing most of them with a suit change. If the active ones get destroyed, the ones deployed before them get reactivated.
Also deactivated equipment would have a scan profile as remotes and proxies, making them harder to find.

I love this game because of the customization of the fits, If I have to play logi all the time just to keep my stuff in the game, I would probably play logi even less, than after the last nerfs to the class. This game is about adjustment to the battlefield, making logis not able to adapt is a bad move, because all other roles can switch without consequences.

Cheers

Well, a few things about that, first the direct method described is stacked rather than objective.
In the game under a BW mechanic you would not need to take the time to destroy those deployed items nor would you be facing a team free of the same mechanical constraints you are operating under.

Leaving that aside what you describe is frankly non-problematic, those players in as logi stay as logi and actually play the role as opposed to the current method of spawn once, deploy everything ditch the logi suit and play only heavy on that point defense throughout the match from then on, because really once you have already self logi'ed rep hives and uplinks why wouldn't you just play heavy on that point? And if the best way to run logi is often to not even be in logi suit for the majority of the match then what is the value/point of the suit/role?

I guess I'm still unclear as to how this works.

If you are saying it is Dropsuit based, then it's bandwidth per dropsuit? As in, Spawn Amarr logi, spam uplinks, then spawn Cal Logi and spam hives because I have another 24 BW? This is how it all works now.

Or is it bandwidth per person, no matter what race or dropsuit you spawn? As in I spawn Amarr Logi, spam uplinks, then spawn in Cal Logi and spam hives, but all my Amarr Logi uplinks pop. I'm thinking this is how it will work, which is awesome.

Can we also make equipment hackable in the same update?



Please ??


:3

Although I love this idea, the bw pop is necessary. The reason it pops is as much for frame rate as well as game immersion. Ever suit picked, every equipment placed need to be well thought out and serve a purpose. Spam, switch, and forget is not a purpose, but rather abuse. Your fix would be ideal if not for the frame rate issue would still be present.

Although I love this idea, the bw pop is necessary. The reason it pops is as much for frame rate as well as game immersion. Ever suit picked, every equipment placed need to be well thought out and serve a purpose. Spam, switch, and forget is not a purpose, but rather abuse. Your fix would be ideal if not for the frame rate issue would still be present.

I still have five more pages of this thread to get through, but I wanted to reiterate a point that I noticed was getting looked over multiple times. Many people have incorrectly assumed that this proposal will shoe-horn people who like to use equipment into Logistic roles under the following premise:

"If I die and switch to a different suit, all of my equipment is destroyed. The only way I can use equipment is to deploy it as a Logi and hide from the battle. Thus, I am forced to either pick one suit class for a whole battle. Why CCP?!"

According to my understanding of the system, the statement above is false. In actuality, ifI start the match as a Logi with 24Bw (For the sake of argument) and use up all of my bandwidth to put down equipment in the order -

1. Flux Uplink
2. Gauged Uplink
3. Triage Nanohive
4. Remote explosive

- then when I switch suits, my equipment will be destroyed in reverse order until I reach my new suit's bandwidth. That is to say that I would still have an active Flux and Gauged uplink on the field, but no nanohive or remote explosive. Thus, no one is being "shoe-horned" into a role. If you plan on making dynamic changes to your loadout, then plan your equipment deployment carefully.

For the sake of opening more options, I could agree with a module that increases a suits Bw (up to a maximum suit value of 24) so that players who wish to sacrifice something to keep their equipment alive in a different suit would also have recourse to do so

Scouts have a lot of advantages at the moment so I would advocate a lower bandwidth than all other suits on the condition a new scoutly uplink is created that has a low bandwidth/spawn count/scan profile/timer to establish forward positions that logis and heavies can then strengthen

Bandwidth is not the way to nerf Scouts!

EWar Scouts are not the problem. Plate Stacking Scouts are the ones that are impinging on the Assault and Logi roles. Having Plate reduce the Strafe speed of Light Frame suits is a better approach to balancing Scouts.

Nerfing Scout Bandwidth is a direct attack on the core infiltration and insertion role of the Scout.

If your team is Redlined, you don't use a Logi suit to try to get an Uplink into the middle of the map! That is the Scout's job!