Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot?

In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot.

If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined.

I notice there is a column in the spreadsheet beside the equipment called "Full". Can somebody explain what that represents?

Overall (as a huge spam logi), I like the proposed changes, and will figure out how to adapt.

With respect Fox being suck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point.

Last I heard drones have a performance cost equal to that of players in game so they are not really a viable option (over all a higher baseline performance and beyond that potentially more players per team would both be higher priorities I believe)

With respect Fox being suck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point.

There has been a lot of talk about a nerf to heavies, hmgs, or both, because of "heavy spam". However it is the current game and map meta not the class balance which feeds this proliferation of heavies. The Sentinel frame has zero equipment slots using depot/spawn swap as is currently possible gets around one of the fundamental drawbacks built into the frame and adds to the excessive proliferation of Sentinels on the field because if you can provide your own deployable support, gain scout level eWar from a friendly scout on the field, and use a LAV or DS for mobility the question effectively becomes why not use a Sentinel?

The context which creates that last question needs addressed both for diversity of game play and for the preservation of the Sentinel role itself.

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DUST used to have small turrets but I'm not sure what happened to them.

Logistics vs other Dropsuits
One of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore.

BW is a new stat relevant to in match play, CPU/PG are out of match stats relevant to the building of fittings and the mechanics of their function will not be altered by the BW system.

This right here is a massive problem. If i want to redploy i can only choose a logi suit, or be penalized for bringing ina logi suit in the first place.

Scenario: Run in with amarr logi. Drop links. Fight some more killed by heavy.

I cannot pick a Scout to out flank it, or a min scout to run around and hack. Can't pick another heavy to defend the spawn area. Can't pick assault or commando to push onward.

My uplinks will be destroyed if I spawn in anything but a logi, thus defeating the initial purpose of bringing uplinks to begin with, so i can respawn with my squad in a good, safe location.

Flexibility will be fine for any other suit, switching an assault to a commando, a scout to heavy, etc. The only suit/players to be penalized for being flexible are amarr and caldari logis to a large extent, to a lessre extent any other logi. The message to them is "you had better not change suits or else your bonus, isk, and SP investment = zero".

Why run a cloak then, just double down on REGǪ
That won't really be a positive thing judging by peoples vitriol for REs

I tend to agree, Scouts have been doing everything well for some time now.

HMG's kill at the appropriate rate inside of their cone of death, Aeon. You run into a heavy, you're supposed to die. Period. You nerf the HMG, and it will either change this situation or it won't. Changing the situation is unacceptable, because then the HMG fails in its role as a "Wrong time wrong place mother f***er" style of weapon.

If a person can run from an HMG, then the heavy has effectively lost the long-term fight. He can now be flanked and has no means of chasing the enemy. It is absolutely imperative the heavy has enough DPS to slaughter anyone who runs into him the first time it happens.


The HMG is the hard counter to impatient planning and stupidity. It is not the hard counter to high ground, cover, long range attacks, or mass driver shelling.

There is therefore no need to nerf it and doing so would destroy the heavy suit.

Guys, Ratatti, let me explain what is happening now.

In serious fights we have the following scenario:

1. At the beginning of battle HALF fighters planted in logi.
2. Equipment spam, die or refit to assaults/scouts/etc
3. No logi in a fight.

Equipment Bandwidth did not save us from the problems, scenario would be:

1. At the beginning of battle ALL fighters planted with equipment fit variant.
2. Equipment spam, die or refit to simular Bandwidth suit (battle fit variant).
3. No logi in a fight.


I understand that the current scenario is simple and effective.
Just want to remind you that we wanna play not a Mario style game.

If you are playing a Heavy (either mando or sent) and swap to another suit you no longer have a heavy weapon or 2x light weapons, if you are playing a scout and swap to another suit you no longer have top flight mobility and eWar, if you are playing an assault and swap to a new frame you lose the bonus to racial weapons and weapons fittings.
Now if you are playing a logi and you swap into another role so you are no longer playing a logi you no longer provide that support to your squad this appropriately will include equipment deployed beyond the BW of the new role you have chosen to play at that time. This is not shoehorning players into anything, this is applying an opportunity cost.

ps...I would like to see how this works with Logi suit / role updates that may be coming up. Bandwidth, equip slots, suit specs, and role/racial bonus all starts to connect in this discussion.

Dear Players

Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature.

* We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate
* We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay
* We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment
* We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so
* We want Equipment diversity

Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent.

Equipment Limit
The main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE.

Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling.

Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£.

Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others.

In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario.

This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field.

Quality over Quantity
We want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time.

Progression
Logistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment.

Logistics vs other Dropsuits
One of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore.

Diversity
We can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either.

Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements.

Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly.

Again, your feedback and input is appreciated.

SOONtm


No, seriously I'm working on this actively right now (first day off in awhile) and hope to have something more meaningful in the near term. Taking into account both the eWar changes and the BW system has given me a bit to adapt too when collating current community feedback on the subject.

And that's -exactly- the point. If a player can out-maneuver the heavy he's -supposed to die- and they have no problem with that because we ditched slower turn speeds (justifiably so) a long time ago. A Heavy can whip around just as fast as anyone else and they have enough defense to be able to react whilst getting shot at but not only that they can apply so much DPS that they can often kill the person shooting them before they go down.

And yes, the HMG is a counter to mass driver shelling -because they receive a splash damage reduction-. Cover doesn't matter within optimal range because they just can hold down the trigger and walk over to you. Long range is about the only one that makes sense in that list but sentinels also have damage resistance bonuses so only a handful of weapons really apply there and it's entirely circumstantial. EVEN STILL, it's just the -one- heavy we're talking about, not a group.

Let me ask you this; what is the ideal weapon a player is supposed to counter an HMG with in the short-to-mid range? Another HMG?

This is why the logistics fits need a tone down in CPU/PG and a large buff in their role reduction to Equipment fittings costs.

Thus no logistics fits with empty slots fit purely for combat and used only to keep their BW value high.
Support logistics could use a meaningful buff, but "slayer logi" can stay dead.

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We can switch to a scout, heavy, log, assault and commando while giving up the strengths and weaknesses of our previous suit for the strengths and weaknesses of a new suit.

Logis are no different, their strength being a lot of equipment, weakness being general combat ability.

I am against the idea of bandwidth. Not only does it limit what suits I can use, but it hurts Cal and Amarr logos harder since they focus on deployables.

Why not just decrease uplink spawn count and increase amount carried? This means you can spam them as long as you are constantly deploying them since they'll run out much faster.

Shame we don't have someone so adamant about Assaults and Commandos x3

Shame we don't have someone so adamant about Assaults and Commandos x3

With respect Fox being suck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point.

There has been a lot of talk about a nerf to heavies, hmgs, or both, because of "heavy spam". However it is the current game and map meta not the class balance which feeds this proliferation of heavies. The Sentinel frame has zero equipment slots using depot/spawn swap as is currently possible gets around one of the fundamental drawbacks built into the frame and adds to the excessive proliferation of Sentinels on the field because if you can provide your own deployable support, gain scout level eWar from a friendly scout on the field, and use a LAV or DS for mobility the question effectively becomes why not use a Sentinel?

The context which creates that last question needs addressed both for diversity of game play and for the preservation of the Sentinel role itself.

0.02 ISK
Cross