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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4654	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:23:00 - [361] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Mister Goo wrote: Equipment spam is the problem that BW is supposed to fix. I think BW is NOT the answer, there are much better ways to do this and the ideas in Cross's Logistics thread are the most solid I have seen. I know that there are no comments by a dev there, but I also know that you have been reading it. OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other? Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. With appropriate dialing of the numbers in Cross' idea, BW and its inherent limitations to gameplay outside of equipment are not neccessary. That is an odd statement considering Cross is in favor of BW... (The godfather of tactical logistics)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 519	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:56:00 - [362] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Mister Goo wrote: Equipment spam is the problem that BW is supposed to fix. I think BW is NOT the answer, there are much better ways to do this and the ideas in Cross's Logistics thread are the most solid I have seen. I know that there are no comments by a dev there, but I also know that you have been reading it. OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other? Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. With appropriate dialing of the numbers in Cross' idea, BW and its inherent limitations to gameplay outside of equipment are not neccessary. That is an odd statement considering Cross is in favor of BW... Having both would be an odd scenario, and having both imposed would be hyper-redundant. Either one seems to fit his idea of an addressing of spam, but that doesn't mean one isn't better than the other when negative side-effects get weighed in. Good to know you're Cross' voice-piece now, he's been having trouble speaking for himself. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4654	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:14:00 - [363] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other? Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. With appropriate dialing of the numbers in Cross' idea, BW and its inherent limitations to gameplay outside of equipment are not neccessary. That is an odd statement considering Cross is in favor of BW... Having both would be an odd scenario, and having both imposed would be hyper-redundant. Either one seems to fit his idea of an addressing of spam, but that doesn't mean one isn't better than the other when negative side-effects get weighed in. Good to know you're Cross' voice-piece now, he's been having trouble speaking for himself. shrugs Just a statement of fact. It can be reasonably inferred from his reposting of my explanation of BW that our opinions are similar. However, I am in no way a spokesman for Cross. It's becoming readily apparent that engaging you in any sort of discussion is not worth the effort.... (The godfather of tactical logistics)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 524	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:42:00 - [364] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: With appropriate dialing of the numbers in Cross' idea, BW and its inherent limitations to gameplay outside of equipment are not neccessary. That is an odd statement considering Cross is in favor of BW... Having both would be an odd scenario, and having both imposed would be hyper-redundant. Either one seems to fit his idea of an addressing of spam, but that doesn't mean one isn't better than the other when negative side-effects get weighed in. Good to know you're Cross' voice-piece now, he's been having trouble speaking for himself. shrugs Just a statement of fact. It can be reasonably inferred from his reposting of my explanation of BW that our opinions are similar. However, I am in no way a spokesman for Cross. It's becoming readily apparent that engaging you in any sort of discussion is not worth the effort.... If all you're into is trying to snipe at my comments or opinions then, yeah, don't bother and save yourself getting LOGIc-bombed. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 898	Posted - 2014.11.21 02:35:00 - [365] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: One Eyed King wrote: So I read through the thread and looked at the spreadsheet, and I don't know if I fully understand how this works. REs are set at 4, with a standard scout at 4. If I lay out one RE, does that equal 4 and laying out another would negate the first? Or, because they are both the same piece of EQ, would I be able to lay out the rest? I am fine for not letting scouts infringe on Logi territory, but if I can't lay out 3 std REs on a Std or Adv scout, that is going to be a problem. Every RE you place counts as 4 BW. So if you place 2 REs you have 8 spent. Say you have 16 BW. You can spend 8 more. Any spent after that will cause the first RE placed (I think) to go pop. Although come to think of it, if you could throw REs REALLy fast, you could throw 5 REs, into a crowd causing the first RE you threw to pop before the 4 second timer on REs has expired and blow them early! o.O MUAHAHAHHAHA All joking aside, why would it be a problem if scouts can only lay 1 or 2 REs? Because it takes Three to take out a HAVGÇª And it is not an easy task to do. If a scout can only lay one or two, then it is only encouraging their use as an anti Infantry weapon. Just work in pairs then... job done. Seriously, how in the world is it reasonable for a freaking SOLO puny scout to take out a freaking super-powered tanks with high tech nanites and shields anyways? Instead having an assault or logi distract the tank with some swarms/plasma while a scout sneaks in to place an RE or two would be the perfect teamwork/gameplay goal IMO. Its not down to the suit, the suit just allows you to be sneaky and fast ever see a logi try to re a tank?
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 137	Posted - 2014.11.21 02:50:00 - [366] - Quote I believe the main point is "solo" scout. While I would contend that it's reasonable to expect a single AV-weapon (IE, swarms, PLC, forge) user to be able to kill a tank on their own, I think it may be unreasonable to expect a scout to solo remote-bomb a tank. Primarily because it involves very little actual sacrifice on the scout's part. As in, it requires very little sacrifice of anti-infantry armament (or mobility, in the case of commando suits). So, that could be just a little bit problematic. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 898	Posted - 2014.11.21 02:52:00 - [367] - Quote So I guess once the gal logis have dropped their deployables they'll be swapping out for their quad scanner suit?
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 898	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:01:00 - [368] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I believe the main point is "solo" scout. While I would contend that it's reasonable to expect a single AV-weapon (IE, swarms, PLC, forge) user to be able to kill a tank on their own, I think it may be unreasonable to expect a scout to solo remote-bomb a tank. Primarily because it involves very little actual sacrifice on the scout's part. As in, it requires very little sacrifice of anti-infantry armament (or mobility, in the case of commando suits). So, that could be just a little bit problematic. I would imagine if it was a 'problem' the forums would be full of tanker QQ.
Iron Toast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:08:00 - [369] - Quote I would prefer that there not be tiers to bandwidth. However, if there need to be tiers it would be better to have better equipment use less bandwidth than to have each level of suit have more bandwidth. This allows a logo to always use their best equipment even if they aren't running a proto suit.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 50	Posted - 2014.11.21 04:24:00 - [370] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Psi wrote: It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit. Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So the roll of a Logi should be to cower in a corner once all their equipment is deployed? Nono, as long as you respawn in a Logi again, they stay up. Rattati...quick point on this. It does limit the tactical flexibility players have when they get painted into a corner (i.e. perhaps too steep a cost for switching roles in the match). The ability to adapt mid-game between suits / fits ect is at least for me a major positive of the game and this may induce too steep a penalty. Consider this...quite a few dedicated Logi players also play Sentinel as well. Imagine dropping a couple uplinks and seeding your nanohives and if it looks like the enemy push is gaining momentum you switch to your heavy hmg and poof...the hardpoint you had set up to support your team is gone. That said, I do generally like the idea of bandwidth and the thought process of deriving it from EVE. I think it's also key to remember that in EVE you don't die (i.e. lose ships) nearly on the same scale as Dust. Also, when you die in EVE the drones still stay in space and don't die with you. I think with perhaps some tweaks this system could work in Dust but I'm not sure quite how to implement it at the moment. How's JBLM? Tampa's chilly. I agree our nests will suffer, but with all the HMG hate maybe turning objectives over at a faster rate will add to our mayhem quota..lol Gonna sound like an NFL owners meeting with talk of more offence and less defence-ever see a 300lb running back with an HMG?

GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 50	Posted - 2014.11.21 04:28:00 - [371] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Psi wrote: It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit. Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So the roll of a Logi should be to cower in a corner once all their equipment is deployed? Nono, as long as you respawn in a Logi again, they stay up. Rattati...quick point on this. It does limit the tactical flexibility players have when they get painted into a corner (i.e. perhaps too steep a cost for switching roles in the match). The ability to adapt mid-game between suits / fits ect is at least for me a major positive of the game and this may induce too steep a penalty. Consider this...quite a few dedicated Logi players also play Sentinel as well. Imagine dropping a couple uplinks and seeding your nanohives and if it looks like the enemy push is gaining momentum you switch to your heavy hmg and poof...the hardpoint you had set up to support your team is gone. Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point. Sentinels should have BW for at least 1 biscuit.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1059	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:07:00 - [372] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: So I guess once the gal logis have dropped their deployables they'll be swapping out for their quad scanner suit? scanner plus injector and rep tool with a back up nanohive in a pinch, but likely hoarding and never using. EDIT: regardless of race, I don't see the rep tool being given up by any logi, unless they aren't actually a logi Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1002	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:18:00 - [373] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Mister Goo wrote: Equipment spam is the problem that BW is supposed to fix. I think BW is NOT the answer, there are much better ways to do this and the ideas in Cross's Logistics thread are the most solid I have seen. I know that there are no comments by a dev there, but I also know that you have been reading it. OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other? Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. Exactly, BW is less binary than "let's stop stuff being placed here". wtf does " binary" have to do with it? Except that BW WON'T stop or limit bitches from dropping equipment all over supply depots to initiate lag? Binary - Yes or No, 1 or 0, True or False. Your right it won't stop them, thats the point. However when they move to a different suit the equipment is going to go poof. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1059	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:20:00 - [374] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: One Eyed King wrote: So I read through the thread and looked at the spreadsheet, and I don't know if I fully understand how this works. REs are set at 4, with a standard scout at 4. If I lay out one RE, does that equal 4 and laying out another would negate the first? Or, because they are both the same piece of EQ, would I be able to lay out the rest? I am fine for not letting scouts infringe on Logi territory, but if I can't lay out 3 std REs on a Std or Adv scout, that is going to be a problem. Every RE you place counts as 4 BW. So if you place 2 REs you have 8 spent. Say you have 16 BW. You can spend 8 more. Any spent after that will cause the first RE placed (I think) to go pop. Although come to think of it, if you could throw REs REALLy fast, you could throw 5 REs, into a crowd causing the first RE you threw to pop before the 4 second timer on REs has expired and blow them early! o.O MUAHAHAHHAHA All joking aside, why would it be a problem if scouts can only lay 1 or 2 REs? Because it takes Three to take out a HAVGÇª And it is not an easy task to do. If a scout can only lay one or two, then it is only encouraging their use as an anti Infantry weapon. Just work in pairs then... job done. Seriously, how in the world is it reasonable for a freaking SOLO puny scout to take out a freaking super-powered tanks with high tech nanites and shields anyways? Instead having an assault or logi distract the tank with some swarms/plasma while a scout sneaks in to place an RE or two would be the perfect teamwork/gameplay goal IMO. Its not down to the suit, the suit just allows you to be sneaky and fast ever see a logi try to re a tank? Yep. Seen it and I've done it. I found it has absolutely nothing to do with the suit and everything to do with the tanker. 8 out of 10 tankers I encounter have really poor situational awareness. I usually don't even consider remoting a tank until I've first encountered it on the map and it let me get right next to it. But that aside, even as a proto swarmer, unless the tank driver panics and gets stuck on terrain, I normally don't solo tanks. I do aid in finishing the job, definitely. Maybe I'm just lucky because I hear all these horror stories about tanks and yet in almost every match I've played, I wasn't the only one who brought out AV to deal with it. I have had a few matches in the past where I was most definitely alone. He was demolishing our clones and we couldn't bring in a tank without him blowing it up before the RDV let go. I had to lay out mine traps and use my swarms to trick him into running them over. Took me 540K to do it, but worth it. With the proposed changes however, that won't be possible, but again, that specific situation was a LONG time ago. Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1059	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:25:00 - [375] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other? Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. Exactly, BW is less binary than "let's stop stuff being placed here". wtf does " binary" have to do with it? Except that BW WON'T stop or limit bitches from dropping equipment all over supply depots to initiate lag? Binary - Yes or No, 1 or 0, True or False. Your right it won't stop them, thats the point. However when they move to a different suit the equipment is going to go poof. ONLY if that different suit has lower BW than the previous, at which point it would 'poof' the EQ that is OVER the new suits BW in the queue order it was laid. There is nothing to stop multiple players from coming together and laying down 1-2 nanohives each to try and initiate this, but that sounds like a lot of effort. Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5218	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:42:00 - [376] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: Sentinels should have BW for at least 1 biscuit. That skill is called "ammo capacity" Donuts and pizza pockets don't carry themselves. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5218	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:47:00 - [377] - Quote lee corwood wrote: ONLY if that different suit has lower BW than the previous, at which point it would 'poof' the EQ that is OVER the new suits BW in the queue order it was laid. There is nothing to stop multiple players from coming together and laying down 1-2 nanohives each to try and initiate this, but that sounds like a lot of effort. Almost no one who drops hives around depots plays dedicated logi. That's a lazy tourist thing that bandwidth is intended to fix. There is nothing broken about forcing people to be smarter about the position and timing of deployables. The fact that you can currently drop eight hives/uplinks in a cluster then swap to an HMG fatty is pretty stupid. If you want to swap to AV and keep equipment? Last I checked, PLC/swarms fit on a logistics suit. Coincidence? I think not. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2259	Posted - 2014.11.21 13:38:00 - [378] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Psi wrote: It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit. Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So the roll of a Logi should be to cower in a corner once all their equipment is deployed? Nono, as long as you respawn in a Logi again, they stay up. Rattati...quick point on this. It does limit the tactical flexibility players have when they get painted into a corner (i.e. perhaps too steep a cost for switching roles in the match). The ability to adapt mid-game between suits / fits ect is at least for me a major positive of the game and this may induce too steep a penalty. Consider this...quite a few dedicated Logi players also play Sentinel as well. Imagine dropping a couple uplinks and seeding your nanohives and if it looks like the enemy push is gaining momentum you switch to your heavy hmg and poof...the hardpoint you had set up to support your team is gone. That said, I do generally like the idea of bandwidth and the thought process of deriving it from EVE. I think it's also key to remember that in EVE you don't die (i.e. lose ships) nearly on the same scale as Dust. Also, when you die in EVE the drones still stay in space and don't die with you. I think with perhaps some tweaks this system could work in Dust but I'm not sure quite how to implement it at the moment. Why not allow dropsuits to overload their bandwidth at the expense of their Shields? Still can't carry more equipment, but you could field more equipment by diverting power from your shields to the transmitter that keeps the equipment "alive" Maybe every BW point overloaded costs you 10 shield HP, 5 regen/sec and adds 1 sec to your delays? Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:07:00 - [379] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. Exactly, BW is less binary than "let's stop stuff being placed here". wtf does " binary" have to do with it? Except that BW WON'T stop or limit bitches from dropping equipment all over supply depots to initiate lag? Binary - Yes or No, 1 or 0, True or False. Your right it won't stop them, thats the point. However when they move to a different suit the equipment is going to go poof. THANK YOU, that is my point. That and that for a completely convoluted "solution", which adds multiple layers of complexity botu for balancing and gameplay AND essentially negates productive Logistical gameplay we DON'T solve the problem, completely or absolutely when it could and should be . As well as adding those balance complexity layers ATOP already persistently imbalanced gameplay/game functionality. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Nirwanda Vaughns 957	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:57:00 - [380] - Quote with the changes, seeing as the amount of prox mines dropped is limited could we perhaps have them magnetized in teh same way as AV nades with say a 5 or 10m seek range? it'd make them so much more usefull and mixed with the lower sig radius of a proto one then at least passive scans wont just light them up all time because as it is prox mines are pointless. every tank ont he map can see em from a mile off Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:18:00 - [381] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: lee corwood wrote: ONLY if that different suit has lower BW than the previous, at which point it would 'poof' the EQ that is OVER the new suits BW in the queue order it was laid. There is nothing to stop multiple players from coming together and laying down 1-2 nanohives each to try and initiate this, but that sounds like a lot of effort. Almost no one who drops hives around depots plays dedicated logi. That's a lazy tourist thing that bandwidth is intended to fix. There is nothing broken about forcing people to be smarter about the position and timing of deployables. The fact that you can currently drop eight hives/uplinks in a cluster then swap to an HMG fatty is pretty stupid. If you want to swap to AV and keep equipment? Last I checked, PLC/swarms fit on a logistics suit. Coincidence? I think not. However, building a minefield thats actually going to be worthwhile AND being able to use support deployables with the squad you're with? That'll be gone. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:19:00 - [382] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: So I guess once the gal logis have dropped their deployables they'll be swapping out for their quad scanner suit? scanner plus injector and rep tool with a back up nanohive in a pinch, but likely hoarding and never using. EDIT: regardless of race, I don't see the rep tool being given up by any logi, unless they aren't actually a logi Combat Logistics is NOT always centered on the leash. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:21:00 - [383] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Psi wrote: It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit. Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So the roll of a Logi should be to cower in a corner once all their equipment is deployed? Nono, as long as you respawn in a Logi again, they stay up. Rattati...quick point on this. It does limit the tactical flexibility players have when they get painted into a corner (i.e. perhaps too steep a cost for switching roles in the match). The ability to adapt mid-game between suits / fits ect is at least for me a major positive of the game and this may induce too steep a penalty. Consider this...quite a few dedicated Logi players also play Sentinel as well. Imagine dropping a couple uplinks and seeding your nanohives and if it looks like the enemy push is gaining momentum you switch to your heavy hmg and poof...the hardpoint you had set up to support your team is gone. That said, I do generally like the idea of bandwidth and the thought process of deriving it from EVE. I think it's also key to remember that in EVE you don't die (i.e. lose ships) nearly on the same scale as Dust. Also, when you die in EVE the drones still stay in space and don't die with you. I think with perhaps some tweaks this system could work in Dust but I'm not sure quite how to implement it at the moment. Why not allow dropsuits to overload their bandwidth at the expense of their Shields? Still can't carry more equipment, but you could field more equipment by diverting power from your shields to the transmitter that keeps the equipment "alive" Maybe every BW point overloaded costs you 10 shield HP, 5 regen/sec and adds 1 sec to your delays? Maybe for the frames that have combat efficient base stats to start with, but for the Logistics class, who don't, that won't help enough. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:25:00 - [384] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: with the changes, seeing as the amount of prox mines dropped is limited could we perhaps have them magnetized in teh same way as AV nades with say a 5 or 10m seek range? it'd make them so much more usefull and mixed with the lower sig radius of a proto one then at least passive scans wont just light them up all time because as it is prox mines are pointless. every tank ont he map can see em from a mile off PEs as a group are LONG overdue for a rewrite, even if it's just a name change from Proximity Explosive to AV Contact Explosive since that's what they actually are, AV explosives that vehicles need to touch to detonate, not be in proximity of. Changing the name to Don't Forget to Pad With REs would be acceptable IMO also. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2263	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:06:00 - [385] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: with the changes, seeing as the amount of prox mines dropped is limited could we perhaps have them magnetized in teh same way as AV nades with say a 5 or 10m seek range? it'd make them so much more usefull and mixed with the lower sig radius of a proto one then at least passive scans wont just light them up all time because as it is prox mines are pointless. every tank ont he map can see em from a mile off Which is why you use them as a trap and then drive them into it via AV nades/Forge/Swarms. You chase them off into your field which is what kills the softened vehicle (if they even need softened). Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5236	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:58:00 - [386] - Quote Bluntly this needs to happen. Equipment substitutions and lemming rushes via uplink replace real tactics and a need for thought in DUST. People claim tthat this limits tactical options but the current meta is you spam or you lose. There is no tactical flexibility. There is room for only one tactic. For every advantage on the field you must make a sacrifice. The current equipment rules require players to sacrifice nothing. Bandwidth will force a meta change. In my opinion that alone is more than compensation for every drawback. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5026	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:35:00 - [387] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Stop this... Stop saying that scouts main role in life is to be anti-vehicle... it takes taht role away from the heavies and the assaults and the logis who are supposed to be doing this stuff. Second no tank should be a solo-able thing!!! Why do you all insist that the lightest dropsuit class in the game should be able to destroy the most heavy vehicle inthe game, BY ITSELF? This makes no logical sense whatsoever. That's like trying to claim that a frigate should have enough guns and firepower to solo kill a dreadnaught in EVE... It's not gonna happen. Third, you don't just have freaking REs as a scout!!! If you truly wanna go tank hunting in a scout, then ONE RE + proto-AV nades + skilled up PLASMA CANNON or SWARM LAUNCHER still gets you a very decen chance to kill a tank!!! Whining about the RE thing is just plain dumb as you have so many other tools to use in the toolbox!!!! First: Scouts are for CQC AV. Assault/Commando only get close enough to toss an AV grenade. Logi don't usually put RE on thanks. They do AV with Proxies & Remote traps on the road. Sentinels are for long range AV. Second: In WWII many people soloed Tanks. They would dig a shallow trench narrower than the tank tread and lay in it holding a magnetic tank mine on their chest. When the tank rolled over them they would reach up and place the mine on the belly of the tank. Then the guy would have to prey the tank kept going as you don't want to be under a tank mine when it blows up. Third: It is not so much that no tank should be solo-able, as no tank should be solo-able with only one weapon. To solo a Tank a Scout has to use Remote Explosives, AV Grenades, and a Swarm Launcher or Plasma Cannon. Without the Remote Explosives there chances of getting a kill without help are very low. Keep in mind that to use Remote Explosives a Scout has to get close enough to the Tank to risk getting run over, or squished against a wall. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 532	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:45:00 - [388] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bluntly this needs to happen. Equipment substitutions and lemming rushes via uplink replace real tactics and a need for thought in DUST. People claim tthat this limits tactical options but the current meta is you spam or you lose. There is no tactical flexibility. There is room for only one tactic. For every advantage on the field you must make a sacrifice. The current equipment rules require players to sacrifice nothing. Bandwidth will force a meta change. In my opinion that alone is more than compensation for every drawback. Well, yeah, but thats largely because you in your regularly stated gameplay style (Heavy, some scout, some AV, maybe a tank iirc) don't actually perform much of an aspect in the role aside from benefitting from the support you receive. For us over here who do the regular daily work of Logistics (and hate the frikin spamming whores as much as anyone else) and do see the downsides to this understand the gameplay it will create. Blobbing. Lots of it. Then, more QQing about Heavy/Logi blobbing. Then followthrough nerfs on Logis, Heavies, blobbing and blobbing gameplay. While scouts run off into the night imbalanced as ever. Blobbing has a place in gameplay here. But it shouldn't be the veritable only option of gameplay for the gimpiest class with the highest amount of investment both in SP and ISK. And it really shouldn't be the predominant gameplay no matter how cursory a nod it is to TEAMWORK. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 532	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:53:00 - [389] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Stop this... Stop saying that scouts main role in life is to be anti-vehicle... it takes taht role away from the heavies and the assaults and the logis who are supposed to be doing this stuff. Second no tank should be a solo-able thing!!! Why do you all insist that the lightest dropsuit class in the game should be able to destroy the most heavy vehicle inthe game, BY ITSELF? This makes no logical sense whatsoever. That's like trying to claim that a frigate should have enough guns and firepower to solo kill a dreadnaught in EVE... It's not gonna happen. Third, you don't just have freaking REs as a scout!!! If you truly wanna go tank hunting in a scout, then ONE RE + proto-AV nades + skilled up PLASMA CANNON or SWARM LAUNCHER still gets you a very decen chance to kill a tank!!! Whining about the RE thing is just plain dumb as you have so many other tools to use in the toolbox!!!! First: Scouts are for CQC AV. Assault/Commando only get close enough to toss an AV grenade. Logi don't usually put RE on thanks. They do AV with Proxies & Remote traps on the road. Sentinels are for long range AV. Second: In WWII many people soloed Tanks. They would dig a shallow trench narrower than the tank tread and lay in it holding a magnetic tank mine on their chest. When the tank rolled over them they would reach up and place the mine on the belly of the tank. Then the guy would have to prey the tank kept going as you don't want to be under a tank mine when it blows up. Third: It is not so much that no tank should be solo-able, as no tank should be solo-able with only one weapon. To solo a Tank a Scout has to use Remote Explosives, AV Grenades, and a Swarm Launcher or Plasma Cannon. Without the Remote Explosives there chances of getting a kill without help are very low. Keep in mind that to use Remote Explosives a Scout has to get close enough to the Tank to risk getting run over, or squished against a wall. Sorry Fox, and I hate to disagree with you on fundamentals since I recognize you as representing one of DUSTs few actual educational institutions but scouts are not "for" CQC AV. They are "for" Recon, Advance Insertion and Flanking manuevers. Scouts, by the grace of the lopsided portfolio of base stats they were granted in 1.8 just happen to be currently the best out of the box base equipped suit to do CQC AV by RE. The imbalance in that is verifiable by their ability to do both CQC AV by RE AND CQC AV by swarm or PLC and AV nade WITH THE SAME SUIT FITTING. Simultaneous. Yes, I can AV from my Logi with a swarm/plc and nade or PE's OR I can speed+damp tank and run in REs. But its TWO seperate suits, two different fits. Because Logi base stats suck, and scout base stats are imbalanced. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5238	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:56:00 - [390] - Quote No dude. Heavies will eat a nerf before they touch logis after this. I think that's the misunderstanding. You can't touch logis much anymore given their fragility and weakness in combat. If anything bandwidth allows CCP wiggle room to boost a lot of logi aspects and it might come to pass that logis join commando suits as the kings of regen if that change happens. There's a lot of assumption going on here. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.



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