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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
404
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Posted - 2014.11.19 07:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like the idea a lot -- just lookin at the numbers:
Say you have a BW of 32 (for some Pro logis).
That means about 8 pieces of equipment (extremely simplified). Is that what ya'll envision in terms of quantity? Seems just a tad high to me -- but I'm not a logi so I really don't know. |
Imp Smash
molon labe.
General Tso's Alliance
405
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 23:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Imp Smash wrote:I like the idea a lot -- just lookin at the numbers:
Say you have a BW of 32 (for some Pro logis).
That means about 8 pieces of equipment (extremely simplified). Is that what ya'll envision in terms of quantity? Seems just a tad high to me -- but I'm not a logi so I really don't know. In an average match, if you include uplinks (usually 4, up to 6, esp. if no-one else is placing them), nanohives (2-4, pretty disposable, I'd likely pop those all the time) and RE's (3) it's not in any way unusual for me to have that much out. To keep the objectives in managable striking distance on a 5 point map you need a minimum of 3 uplinks, and that's if they are very well and centrally positioned, with none as fallback points. Under the premise that as an Amarr logi it's my job to keep the map under control like this, 8 is pretty reasonable, though I'm not that fond of having to run proto all the time to do it. It's expensive enough as it is being a logi....
Well that's the thing -- you do this currently. And currently we have equipment spam which will require an entire new mechanic introduced to combat. Ergo -- doing this is bad.
You probably shouldn't have 4 to 6 uplinks. You probably shouldn't have 2-4 nanohives. Probably shouldn't have 3 REs.
Assaults have an equipment slot. Commandos have an equipment slot. Scouts have TWO!
So have them share the load with nanohives and uplinks. Squad up with people in an organized manner. Defend your uplinks. Stop RE frisbee'ing. Don't throw out all your deployables RIGHT away. Drop a nanohive. When it pops drop another. You don't HAVE to carpet bomb them so that ammo is pretty much a non issue.
Supply depots moving up in value to be similar to a CRU would be cool.
Like I said -- 8 seems like a lot o.O
It would seem to me this equipment limiting will only be a good thing as we will see less heavy spam, more tactical engagement/organization, and less resource eating spam. |
Imp Smash
molon labe.
General Tso's Alliance
405
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 23:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:
8 is not a lot only because I am an Amarr logi and that's my role. I've been doing this since beta. I didn't suddenly become the source of massive carpet-bombing spam.
Spam occurs because currently it's everyones role.
(wasn't done editing my post :P)
But that's a fair point too. The fact everyone can drop a ton of equipment is also a huge issue.
So what would you say -- as a logi you think you need a fair chunk of bandwidth. But Assaults, scouts, and commandos should only have enough to drop 1 piece of gear about?
Am I wrong thinking 1 logi should not be able to set up coverage for a 5 point map alone? Or did I misunderstand your post.
Honestly the idea of an assault, scout, or commando being able to have only 1 piece of gear (or 2/3 if they are explosive in nature) doesn't bother me as an assault. Nor would the idea of a logi going up in equipment to compensate that limit bother me much. I'm just not quite sure what would be optimum while not 'overly easy to break with tons of stuff that the enemy can't reasonably clear out thereby reducing tactics.' |
Imp Smash
molon labe.
General Tso's Alliance
406
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 00:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Imp Smash wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
8 is not a lot only because I am an Amarr logi and that's my role. I've been doing this since beta. I didn't suddenly become the source of massive carpet-bombing spam.
Spam occurs because currently it's everyones role.
(wasn't done editing my post :P) But that's a fair point too. The fact everyone can drop a ton of equipment is also a huge issue. So what would you say -- as a logi you think you need a fair chunk of bandwidth. But Assaults, scouts, and commandos should only have enough to drop 1 piece of gear about? Am I wrong thinking 1 logi should not be able to set up coverage for a 5 point map alone? Or did I misunderstand your post. Honestly the idea of an assault, scout, or commando being able to have only 1 piece of gear (or 2/3 if they are explosive in nature) doesn't bother me as an assault. Nor would the idea of a logi going up in equipment to compensate that limit bother me much. I'm just not quite sure what would be optimum while not 'overly easy to break with tons of stuff that the enemy can't reasonably clear out thereby reducing tactics.' To your first point, I don't think that and I wouldn't. As proposed, assaults /commandos can have 4 EQ at proto, scouts 3. The second: maybe I should be able to as an Amarr logi, maybe not. But if I do, that's pretty much all the EQ I can use so someone else (cal logi) will need to bring the nanohives. This will probably need tweaking and iteration, for sure, but the overall premise is quite good.
To the first: well, I am fine (as an assault) having 4 pieces of EQ. I'm just also saying I could live off of 1 or 2. It might even be a good idea for me just to be able to deploy 2.
To the second: Ah, i understand. You are saying 1 logi could cover uplinks on a 5 point map, but uplinks ONLY. That's a bit more reasonable that i had it pictured. Or 1 logi could cover the uplinks and hives for 1 or 2 points on a map.
TBH though -- it stil sounds like a lot of deployables max. Maybe Commandos/assaults SHOULD only get enough bandwidth for 2 pieces of EQ and scouts 1 while Logis have 8 (or a tad more)
Basically anything that forces tactical play and thinking and limits zerging/spamming.
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Imp Smash
molon labe.
General Tso's Alliance
409
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Posted - 2014.11.20 01:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So I read through the thread and looked at the spreadsheet, and I don't know if I fully understand how this works.
REs are set at 4, with a standard scout at 4.
If I lay out one RE, does that equal 4 and laying out another would negate the first?
Or, because they are both the same piece of EQ, would I be able to lay out the rest?
I am fine for not letting scouts infringe on Logi territory, but if I can't lay out 3 std REs on a Std or Adv scout, that is going to be a problem.
Every RE you place counts as 4 BW. So if you place 2 REs you have 8 spent. Say you have 16 BW. You can spend 8 more. Any spent after that will cause the first RE placed (I think) to go pop.
Although come to think of it, if you could throw REs REALLy fast, you could throw 5 REs, into a crowd causing the first RE you threw to pop before the 4 second timer on REs has expired and blow them early! o.O MUAHAHAHHAHA
All joking aside, why would it be a problem if scouts can only lay 1 or 2 REs? |
Imp Smash
molon labe.
General Tso's Alliance
410
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 01:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Imp Smash wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So I read through the thread and looked at the spreadsheet, and I don't know if I fully understand how this works.
REs are set at 4, with a standard scout at 4.
If I lay out one RE, does that equal 4 and laying out another would negate the first?
Or, because they are both the same piece of EQ, would I be able to lay out the rest?
I am fine for not letting scouts infringe on Logi territory, but if I can't lay out 3 std REs on a Std or Adv scout, that is going to be a problem. Every RE you place counts as 4 BW. So if you place 2 REs you have 8 spent. Say you have 16 BW. You can spend 8 more. Any spent after that will cause the first RE placed (I think) to go pop. Although come to think of it, if you could throw REs REALLy fast, you could throw 5 REs, into a crowd causing the first RE you threw to pop before the 4 second timer on REs has expired and blow them early! o.O MUAHAHAHHAHA All joking aside, why would it be a problem if scouts can only lay 1 or 2 REs? Yes. 1) Tanks don't explode with 1 RE. Neither does an LAV. 2) We use them for point defense. Often cover multiple objectives with them. The catch being if I detonate upon seeing an objective hacked, I blow ALL the REs. Even if that objective were fluxed first. Its a reasonable trade off. 3) This still doesn't fix the problem of Frisbee REs. Most complaints arise from this tactic. I don't see how nerfing people who use multiple REs as intended, while not fixing the Frisbee RE thrower complaints, and reducing the AV capacity of scouts effectively nerfs Slayer Scouts. In the end, that mentality only increases the viability of that play style vs more legitimate scout roles.
Ah. Fair enough. |
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