Prove me wrong

- reduce RE bw isn't equal increase scout bw. Scout still has the lowest ability to deploy equipment.
- AV is for every suit. AV RE is suit scout because it require low profile and ability to run fast.
- I dare you run assault to stack 3 RE on a proper tank without him notice and run away.

1.Medium frame suits don't run fast enough to get in close to Tanks without being slaughtered. They can do it sometimes, but not as reliably as Scouts can. Placing REs on Tanks is really not an Assault or Logi role.



2.By saying this you are simply dismissing every concern about Bandwidth as just Spammer QQ. If we assume out of hand that there are no problems at all with the Bandwidth proposal, and it requires no critical examination or discussion, then what was the point of Rattati posting it on the Forums in the first place?

Well........It takes out the flexibility u have been offered in this game.Now this makes heavies rely almost 90% on team members as they cant place an uplink on a desired place . So if u have a team of noobs then the match is dead.

Now all u can do is either play a slayer logi(difficult to) or dont use logi suits at all....bcoz if u use once in a game then to make advantage of it u shud wear it throught the game irrespective of circumstances..

I still think that low HP scouts should be able to speed tank effectively, as if they make a mistake they die instantly. That is why I like having a Strafe penalty attached to Armor Plate modules rather than the Scout suit.

Dear Players

Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature.

* We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate
* We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay
* We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment
* We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so
* We want Equipment diversity

Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent.

Equipment Limit
The main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE.

Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling.

Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£.

Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others.

In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario.

This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field.

Quality over Quantity
We want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time.

Progression
Logistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment.

Logistics vs other Dropsuits
One of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore.

Diversity
We can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either.

Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements.

Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly.

Again, your feedback and input is appreciated.

If we keep theorycrafting based on mushy, half finished systems we might as well start philosophizing on religion or economics.

---

Solution to BW restrictions:

- Run speed scout and drop some drop uplinks + RE's.
- Switch to either logi slayer, logi AV, logi logi or logi sniper.
- Shelf all other suits until next tree shake-up.

Solution to BW restrictions:

- Run speed scout and drop some drop uplinks + RE's.
- Switch to either logi slayer, logi AV, logi logi or logi sniper.
- Shelf all other suits until next tree shake-up.

Rattati i hope you are paying attention to the underlying reason(s) players are against this.
Players are willing to lose 7 uplinks to run 1 with a sent.
Players want BW reduced on REs and proxies for scouts.

Can you guess why players are so willing to run less equipment?
Survival.

Read through several posts and multiple imply being 'trapped' in a logistics suit AKA a death trap.
If logistics had some advantage in terms of survival (like speed) then fewer players would be against this.

They even say 'switch to support other suits'.
Consider that for a second,switching from the master support suit (logistics) because it can't support as well as another can.

There are many underlying problems with the suit itself.
#1 being survivability

Btw,240 eHP and slower than an assault with 400eHP base is stupidly broken.(for example)
Or 240 eHP on a medium frame. (example #2)

Players can see logistics is a walking coffin,gimped beyond belief 'because it has to be'.
Imagine if scouts were slowed to sent speed,this is how logistics appears to anyone with a brain.

That is why players don't like the BW idea,and will (attempt to) fight it tooth and nail.
And TBH i don't blame them.

Another option is to substitute the first step (speed scout making drops) to logi spamming equipment....then switching to slayer logi suits.

This game is about adjustment to the battlefield, making logis not able to adapt is a bad move, because all other roles can switch without consequences.

Uhh... are you guys on crack? Have fun running a good old fashioned "slayer logi" with the current state of logi suits compared to the rest.

No, I'm not on crack. I am High On Frustration with this proposal however, and if my lack of running full proto in pubs OR running slayerlogi TGS builds has taught me anything in the last 2 years its that IF I do, I can be reeeaal good at it. This **** nerfs us even more dude.

the best thing for the group is for the Logi to flip frames into something actually combat-appropriate (since Logis now and by all available proposals are absolutely not and won't be)

First good on you guys for finally coming up with a solution that actually fixes a problem correctly!!! Yay!

But my main point is: Ok so you finally admit it! You f'ed up when you left scouts OP with the currently layout!!!!

Honesltly scouts are able to do TOO MUCH. I can understand versatility, but the more versatility should come at a COST! As they are now, a scout can fit to be a decent logi, a decent assault, a more than decent scout, etc. They have too many role-specific slots!!! Hell you removed the sidearm from some logi's to represent the COST of being a logi! But for scouts you ADDED a slot instead? How dumb is that?

So the point I'm making is that Scouts should either have one less equipment slot or have no sidearm slot.. You can still fit a sidearm in a light weapon slot, but now you only get one weapon instead of two.

Or better yet! Let the players decide which they prefer! On two of the races, (let's say Minmatar and Caldari) you get to have two equipment slots and no sidearm slot. But on the other two races (Amarr and Galente) you get to have the sidearm slot as well as the light weapon slot, but only one equipment slot. The specific races don't matter, but the point is that there is one too many slots on the scout suits as they are now. Please fix it!

Once upon a time, I told CCP Rattati to remove scout's sidearm slot.
He reply me with only one word " NO ".

???

Because that's not a good solution.

Rather than take away the 2nd EQ slot entirely, this sorta "forces" it to be used for a cloak, as was intended. You won't be able to deploy 2 full slots worth of ADV or PRO EQ so it's not as useful for deployables.

Well CCP Rattati I'm calling you out!!! Please explain yourself! Why is it fair for a logistics dropsuit to have no sidearm slot and it's somehow fair for a scout to have the second most equipment slots AND still have the sidearm slot?!? How is this fair by any stretch of game theory and mechanics? I demand you explain you and your teams' logic on this one or forever be shamed and owe me a drink at next year's EVE Vegas event. 8)

In an average match, if you include uplinks (usually 4, up to 6, esp. if no-one else is placing them), nanohives (2-4, pretty disposable, I'd likely pop those all the time) and RE's (3) it's not in any way unusual for me to have that much out.

To keep the objectives in managable striking distance on a 5 point map you need a minimum of 3 uplinks, and that's if they are very well and centrally positioned, with none as fallback points.

Under the premise that as an Amarr logi it's my job to keep the map under control like this, 8 is pretty reasonable, though I'm not that fond of having to run proto all the time to do it. It's expensive enough as it is being a logi....

So the whole thing in this thread about people swapping roles after deploying equipment got me to thinking... If they make it so that the bandwidth of the currently equipped dropsuit is used for the max deployables possible, how will they actually get that code to work?

I mean currently they can't even get the Amarr Logistics Dropsuit bonus to work right so how is CCP gonna get this change to even reliably work?!?!?!?!?!

What am I talking about? Right now an Amarr Logi suit is supposed to decrease deployment time on uplinks that they deploy. However if they swap suits, then that bonus goes away. Ok that part works well and good... But if you die and come back in the same suit, your bonuses are STILL GONE!!!!!

So what do I foresee happening? I foresee a world with deployable bandwidth where a logi suit deploys its maximum bandwidth of equipment, dies and then comes back into game with the same suit and all of its extra bandwidth of previously deployed goodies ALL GONE!!! Because before CCP can even do anything like this they need to fix the code that is already broken for this aspect of play!!!!!

Well that's the thing -- you do this currently. And currently we have equipment spam which will require an entire new mechanic introduced to combat. Ergo -- doing this is bad.

You probably shouldn't have 4 to 6 uplinks. You probably shouldn't have 2-4 nanohives. Probably shouldn't have 3 REs.

Assaults have an equipment slot. Commandos have an equipment slot. Scouts have TWO!

So have them share the load with nanohives and uplinks. Squad up with people in an organized manner. Defend your uplinks. Stop RE frisbee'ing. Don't throw out all your deployables RIGHT away. Drop a nanohive. When it pops drop another. You don't HAVE to carpet bomb them so that ammo is pretty much a non issue.

Supply depots moving up in value to be similar to a CRU would be cool.

Like I said -- 8 seems like a lot o.O

It would seem to me this equipment limiting will only be a good thing as we will see less heavy spam, more tactical engagement/organization, and less resource eating spam.

8 is not a lot only because I am an Amarr logi and that's my role. I've been doing this since beta. I didn't suddenly become the source of massive carpet-bombing spam.

Spam occurs because currently it's everyones role.