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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 371	Posted - 2014.11.30 01:04:00 - [481] - Quote With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1351	Posted - 2014.11.30 06:53:00 - [482] - Quote Stile451 wrote: With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post. Well,if the responses consisted of more than BW work around suggestions (BW modules,BW skill,BW on sents),then maybe they would. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4756	Posted - 2014.11.30 13:16:00 - [483] - Quote Meee One wrote: Stile451 wrote: With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post. Well,if the responses consisted of more than BW work around suggestions (BW modules,BW skill,BW on sents),then maybe they would. Or "this sux because I don't understand it and change is scary" (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1334	Posted - 2014.11.30 16:42:00 - [484] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Meee One wrote: Stile451 wrote: With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post. Well,if the responses consisted of more than BW work around suggestions (BW modules,BW skill,BW on sents),then maybe they would. Or "this sux because I don't understand it and change is scary" Or that some of us have legitimate concerns about the implementation of something this radical with little understanding of what other factors may be in play. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5548	Posted - 2014.11.30 16:52:00 - [485] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Meee One wrote: Stile451 wrote: With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post. Well,if the responses consisted of more than BW work around suggestions (BW modules,BW skill,BW on sents),then maybe they would. Or "this sux because I don't understand it and change is scary" Or that some of us have legitimate concerns about the implementation of something this radical with little understanding of what other factors may be in play. And I find your fear not only hilarious, but profitable! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1334	Posted - 2014.11.30 17:20:00 - [486] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Meee One wrote: Stile451 wrote: With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post. Well,if the responses consisted of more than BW work around suggestions (BW modules,BW skill,BW on sents),then maybe they would. Or "this sux because I don't understand it and change is scary" Or that some of us have legitimate concerns about the implementation of something this radical with little understanding of what other factors may be in play. And I find your fear not only hilarious, but profitable! lol..ok, Breakin, let me know how you profit from it! I might start running low in isk in a couple years and need to pad the wallet. Seriously, though...bandwidth maybe a net positive for the game, however they're are (or were really) other steps they could have taken ro address the issue incrementally. Either way it's not going to stop me from playing logi, far from it. To me the bigger issue is that BW needs to be implemented in conjunction with or after the logi suit update that we are past due for. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
dreth longbow Bank of DUST 514 70	Posted - 2014.11.30 17:41:00 - [487] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: that kind of solo play needs to be killed with fire. There's already poor incentive to join corps or squad up. being able to do that just lessens any need to do so atrociously Why? Should not people be allowed to play how they want? or do you think you should control what is fun and they are playing and paying for?
dreth longbow Bank of DUST 514 70	Posted - 2014.11.30 17:51:00 - [488] - Quote Meee One wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Switching to a suit with no equipment slots should not allow you to retain equipment. Sentinel bandwidth should be zero. Squad bandwidth makes no sense. 1. Agreed...but you can keep your deployables if you do have bandwidth right? One or two slots worth depending on suit. The cost of switching to suits is exorbitantly higher for the logi with no upside. Losing one or two ammo hives does not in anyway equate to losing a full rack of proto uplinks, ammo hives and triage hives. 2. Agreed. 3. Never said that it did. I heard some folks kicking that around as an alternative and mentioned it, thats all. Also, there is no getting around that if you want to address equipment spam you have to apply hard nerfs to logi suits....which then further undercut a role already being left behind in the dust. My biggest concern is that BW width will go in and we still won't have a rework for the logi suits in hand. If BW (which i still think is a poor idea) goes in...or rather when it goes in, it MUST be either after the logi suit rework or in conjunction with it. Nerf? What nerf? As a pure logistics player i actually consider this a major buff,and a big FU to omni soldiers. This will in no way negatively effect dedicated logistics players. It will however destroy those that spam equipment just to switch suits. This IMHO will actually add value to those dedicated logistics players,seeing as how everyone can see how much of a death trap the suit is. They wouldn't want to run the suit themselves (because they'll die easier) so they might actually start covering those brave enough to do so. ummm Why do you have to be a dedicated type player like logi or scout? What about situational awareness? I have spent untold hours developing skill in playing and skill books to have a diversified play style of different types. What type I use depends on the game situation: if my team is fighting and has no spawn points then I give them spawn points to keep fighting for the objective. If my team is getting killed by tanks or DS I try and deal with that with a tank or swarm or DS If my team needs is losing clones and holding an objective then I give them nanos and reps. if my team is pushed to redline then I give them spawn points up high only reached by DS or CRU in my DS over objectives. If my team is noobs and can't get it together then I put on a heavy and assualt the point to show them what they need to do. If all points are red then I put on a scout and run around and hack points to disrupt the enemy and allow a break out. Soooo why should you say I only need to play one type of role?
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4756	Posted - 2014.11.30 18:25:00 - [489] - Quote dreth longbow wrote: Meee One wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Switching to a suit with no equipment slots should not allow you to retain equipment. Sentinel bandwidth should be zero. Squad bandwidth makes no sense. 1. Agreed...but you can keep your deployables if you do have bandwidth right? One or two slots worth depending on suit. The cost of switching to suits is exorbitantly higher for the logi with no upside. Losing one or two ammo hives does not in anyway equate to losing a full rack of proto uplinks, ammo hives and triage hives. 2. Agreed. 3. Never said that it did. I heard some folks kicking that around as an alternative and mentioned it, thats all. Also, there is no getting around that if you want to address equipment spam you have to apply hard nerfs to logi suits....which then further undercut a role already being left behind in the dust. My biggest concern is that BW width will go in and we still won't have a rework for the logi suits in hand. If BW (which i still think is a poor idea) goes in...or rather when it goes in, it MUST be either after the logi suit rework or in conjunction with it. Nerf? What nerf? As a pure logistics player i actually consider this a major buff,and a big FU to omni soldiers. This will in no way negatively effect dedicated logistics players. It will however destroy those that spam equipment just to switch suits. This IMHO will actually add value to those dedicated logistics players,seeing as how everyone can see how much of a death trap the suit is. They wouldn't want to run the suit themselves (because they'll die easier) so they might actually start covering those brave enough to do so. ummm Why do you have to be a dedicated type player like logi or scout? What about situational awareness? I have spent untold hours developing skill in playing and skill books to have a diversified play style of different types. What type I use depends on the game situation: if my team is fighting and has no spawn points then I give them spawn points to keep fighting for the objective. If my team is getting killed by tanks or DS I try and deal with that with a tank or swarm or DS If my team needs is losing clones and holding an objective then I give them nanos and reps. if my team is pushed to redline then I give them spawn points up high only reached by DS or CRU in my DS over objectives. If my team is noobs and can't get it together then I put on a heavy and assualt the point to show them what they need to do. If all points are red then I put on a scout and run around and hack points to disrupt the enemy and allow a break out. Soooo why should you say I only need to play one type of role? Play any role you want, but only one at a time. Not that hard to understand. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5548	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:17:00 - [490] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Play any role you want, but only one at a time. Not that hard to understand. Is this really THAT difficult to comprehend? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 22	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:31:00 - [491] - Quote The notion that this will eliminate the omni soldier is flawed. There is nothing preventing a scout to spawn at the beginning of a game drop an uplink or two (actually 3, with invisibility) then switch to a logi suit. The difference with BW is that it would only go one way. All in all its just another buff to scout suits. You think they're common at the beginning of matches now? Just wait. Dust 5/14
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 22	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:34:00 - [492] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Play any role you want, but only one at a time. Not that hard to understand. Is this really THAT difficult to comprehend? With bandwidth other suits can still do logistics things. "one at a time" BS. Dust 5/14
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1336	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:47:00 - [493] - Quote I don't mind the "one role at a time" concept at all...it's understandable. The part I do mind is that the penalty for switching roles is dramatically different for logi players vs. any other role. There's not a lot of ways to cut back on the ability to put out high levels of equipment without directly impacting logi suits. I would honestly like them to roll out the update to the support suits before introducing BW. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5549	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:19:00 - [494] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I don't mind the "one role at a time" concept at all...it's understandable. The part I do mind is that the penalty for switching roles is dramatically different for logi players vs. any other role. There's not a lot of ways to cut back on the ability to put out high levels of equipment without directly impacting logi suits. I would honestly like them to roll out the update to the support suits before introducing BW. Most logi players don't swap roles mid fight. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1336	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:23:00 - [495] - Quote I think that depends on the tactical situation. Switching to once or twice...pretty common; switching to other roles is usually a function of how many other folks you are running with. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4758	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:24:00 - [496] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I don't mind the "one role at a time" concept at all...it's understandable. The part I do mind is that the penalty for switching roles is dramatically different for logi players vs. any other role. There's not a lot of ways to cut back on the ability to put out high levels of equipment without directly impacting logi suits. I would honestly like them to roll out the update to the support suits before introducing BW. I'm OK with them doing both at once, but agree that doing BW without updating the suits would be a bad idea. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 372	Posted - 2014.12.01 03:11:00 - [497] - Quote Meee One wrote: Stile451 wrote: With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post. Well,if the responses consisted of more than BW work around suggestions (BW modules,BW skill,BW on sents),then maybe they would. Dev feedback stopped when people started making suggestions of which many don't address the main issue of performance problems due to spam and instead push personal wants without understanding the main reason behind the need for something like this. Fixing a performance issue is the goal of this change, not forcing a specific group of players into a specific role for the entire match or permanently punishing them if they change roles. There are ways to reach this goal without permanently punishing players.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 12494	Posted - 2014.12.01 09:20:00 - [498] - Quote Dear community We have painstakingly gone through the 25 pages, collected feedback and adjusted the proposal, Cross and the rest of the CPM have also reviewed and given their feedback. Please find the updated numbers here and note that almost every unique comment is addressed on the right hand side: Final Proposal Please give your feedback, clear and concise. Thanks! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 150	Posted - 2014.12.01 10:14:00 - [499] - Quote Thank you for special change for RE, but..... new equipment precision is going to kill RE trap anyway. Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 308	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:00:00 - [500] - Quote So the proxies still remain at 2; they're hardly used anyway, and won't be used at all then. Proud member of Glitched Connection "Only idiots start a fight they can't win" - Sora (No Game No Life)

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5556	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:03:00 - [501] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: So the proxies still remain at 2; they're hardly used anyway, and won't be used at all then. At 32 BW you could lay out 16 proxies at a time. How does this translate to them being discarded? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Greiv Rabbah 13Art of War13 20	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:08:00 - [502] - Quote I like this
james selim brownstein Zion's Elite 34	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:15:00 - [503] - Quote This may be a stupid question but, will the APEX/FACTION BPO's be categorized under PROTO or BASIC ?
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3879	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:16:00 - [504] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear community We have painstakingly gone through the 25 pages, collected feedback and adjusted the proposal, Cross and the rest of the CPM have also reviewed and given their feedback. Please find the updated numbers here and note that almost every unique comment is addressed on the right hand side: Final Proposal Please give your feedback, clear and concise. Thanks! I like the flat bonus for the Amarr and Caldari logi dropsuits for bandwidth. I think leaving REs at 4 bandwidth would have been better though. Putting Sentinels at 0 BW is good and much needed. I'm really looking forward to seeing this implemented and seeing how it changes how the game is played. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 198	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:40:00 - [505] - Quote FYI the proto "Allotek Nanohive (R) - Armour repair and ammo resupply." is given a BW of 4 whereas the advanced "K17/D Nanohive (R) - Armour repair and ammo resupply." has a higher value of 6
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 365	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:54:00 - [506] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear community We have painstakingly gone through the 25 pages, collected feedback and adjusted the proposal, Cross and the rest of the CPM have also reviewed and given their feedback. Please find the updated numbers here and note that almost every unique comment is addressed on the right hand side: Final Proposal Please give your feedback, clear and concise. Thanks! Dear Rattati, as a long time Logi player (not so much since survivability is down the drain), I do not approve these changes. 1. You make it much harder to be effective as a logi without running proto. 2. You make it impossible for a logi to adapt to the situation by changing Roles, this is a major nerf to game fun for strategic gameplay. (Not all logis prefer to run leashing a heavy) 3. You still leave the possibility to spam equipment for the rest of the roles. 4. You do not adress more importatns stuff like the possibility to drop EQ around supply depots, which shouldn't be possible in the first place. 5. You do not adress the isk cost of Equipment, meaning why can anybody resupply EQ at a supply depot without ISK cost? Charging ISK for EQ/Suit change at Depot would solve more problems than this mediocre change to EQ... I will play logi even less, since it would just be a waste of game time and a liability to the team. Commandos and Assaults will do the logying from now! If you introduce this crap without any buff to the survivability to the logi, it won't be worth to run the class anymore. Cheers Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing... Not playing logi that much anymore... which is a shame...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5556	Posted - 2014.12.01 12:32:00 - [507] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear community We have painstakingly gone through the 25 pages, collected feedback and adjusted the proposal, Cross and the rest of the CPM have also reviewed and given their feedback. Please find the updated numbers here and note that almost every unique comment is addressed on the right hand side: Final Proposal Please give your feedback, clear and concise. Thanks! Dear Rattati, as a long time Logi player (not so much since survivability is down the drain), I do not approve these changes. 1. You make it much harder to be effective as a logi without running proto. 2. You make it impossible for a logi to adapt to the situation by changing Roles, this is a major nerf to game fun for strategic gameplay. (Not all logis prefer to run leashing a heavy) 3. You still leave the possibility to spam equipment for the rest of the roles. 4. You do not adress more important stuff like the possibility to drop EQ around supply depots, which shouldn't be possible in the first place. 5. You do not adress the isk cost of Equipment, meaning why can anybody resupply EQ at a supply depot without ISK cost? Charging ISK for EQ/Suit change at Depot would solve more problems than this mediocre change to EQ... I will play logi even less, since it would just be a waste of game time and a liability to the team. Commandos and Assaults will do the logying from now! If you introduce this crap without any buff to the survivability to the logi, it won't be worth to run the class anymore. Cheers And yet there are threads dedicated to addressing the logistics survivability issues in a clear and constructive manner with proposals in play. You really think cross would have bothered wasting the effort if Rattati had said "LOLno logis are fine?" EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4766	Posted - 2014.12.01 12:50:00 - [508] - Quote james selim brownstein wrote: This may be a stupid question but, will the APEX/FACTION BPO's be categorized under PROTO or BASIC ? Actually a good question. I have assumed that they would be counted as pro, would certainly be a good way to keep costs down as a logi. Best to get dev clarification though. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1338	Posted - 2014.12.01 14:01:00 - [509] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear community We have painstakingly gone through the 25 pages, collected feedback and adjusted the proposal, Cross and the rest of the CPM have also reviewed and given their feedback. Please find the updated numbers here and note that almost every unique comment is addressed on the right hand side: Final Proposal Please give your feedback, clear and concise. Thanks! Dear Rattati, as a long time Logi player (not so much since survivability is down the drain), I do not approve these changes. 1. You make it much harder to be effective as a logi without running proto. 2. You make it impossible for a logi to adapt to the situation by changing Roles, this is a major nerf to game fun for strategic gameplay. (Not all logis prefer to run leashing a heavy) 3. You still leave the possibility to spam equipment for the rest of the roles. 4. You do not adress more important stuff like the possibility to drop EQ around supply depots, which shouldn't be possible in the first place. 5. You do not adress the isk cost of Equipment, meaning why can anybody resupply EQ at a supply depot without ISK cost? Charging ISK for EQ/Suit change at Depot would solve more problems than this mediocre change to EQ... I will play logi even less, since it would just be a waste of game time and a liability to the team. Commandos and Assaults will do the logying from now! If you introduce this crap without any buff to the survivability to the logi, it won't be worth to run the class anymore. Cheers And yet there are threads dedicated to addressing the logistics survivability issues in a clear and constructive manner with proposals in play. You really think cross would have bothered wasting the effort if Rattati had said "LOLno logis are fine?" Breakin, Cross and IWS both confirmed that this change was likely to go in without any further upgrades or reworks to the logi suits for a while. They did say the logi update was definetly still on the radar though which is good but very concerning. BLUF: I do not feel that this change is on solid foundation without updates to the class most effected by it. You'll also notice in the spread sheet the number of "yes, later" answers on some of the communities concerns...this feels like how CCP used to do things with the "lets get it out there and see what happens" mentality. When this comes out it needs to be close to spot on...it's too big a potential negative shift if it's not. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 12512	Posted - 2014.12.01 14:10:00 - [510] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear community We have painstakingly gone through the 25 pages, collected feedback and adjusted the proposal, Cross and the rest of the CPM have also reviewed and given their feedback. Please find the updated numbers here and note that almost every unique comment is addressed on the right hand side: Final Proposal Please give your feedback, clear and concise. Thanks! Dear Rattati, as a long time Logi player (not so much since survivability is down the drain), I do not approve these changes. 1. You make it much harder to be effective as a logi without running proto. 2. You make it impossible for a logi to adapt to the situation by changing Roles, this is a major nerf to game fun for strategic gameplay. (Not all logis prefer to run leashing a heavy) 3. You still leave the possibility to spam equipment for the rest of the roles. 4. You do not adress more important stuff like the possibility to drop EQ around supply depots, which shouldn't be possible in the first place. 5. You do not adress the isk cost of Equipment, meaning why can anybody resupply EQ at a supply depot without ISK cost? Charging ISK for EQ/Suit change at Depot would solve more problems than this mediocre change to EQ... I will play logi even less, since it would just be a waste of game time and a liability to the team. Commandos and Assaults will do the logying from now! If you introduce this crap without any buff to the survivability to the logi, it won't be worth to run the class anymore. Cheers And yet there are threads dedicated to addressing the logistics survivability issues in a clear and constructive manner with proposals in play. You really think cross would have bothered wasting the effort if Rattati had said "LOLno logis are fine?" Breakin, Cross and IWS both confirmed that this change was likely to go in without any further upgrades or reworks to the logi suits for a while. They did say the logi update was definetly still on the radar though which is good but very concerning. BLUF: I do not feel that this change is on solid foundation without updates to the class most effected by it. You'll also notice in the spread sheet the number of "yes, later" answers on some of the communities concerns...this feels like how CCP used to do things with the "lets get it out there and see what happens" mentality. When this comes out it needs to be close to spot on...it's too big a potential negative shift if it's not. So if I hadn't gone through 25 pages, picked every noticeable morsel of feedback, considered and commented specially on each one, then that would have been better? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"




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