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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
1056
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Posted - 2014.11.19 04:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sorry if this was already asked, too many pages in, but does that mean:
-I spawn Suit A and lay down 2 uplinks of type X.
-In combat I die.
-To counter what I'm fighting (say, I'm getting killed by a RR from far distance but I only have limited range weapon on Suit A), I spawn in with Suit B which also has uplinks of type X.
Does that mean my uplinks stay? Or do they die with me and I'd have to deploy yet again?
I see this causing a few problems simply for the delay. When testing the bonuses that logi's give to EQ, if I switched from an Amarr Logi to a Min Logi, it took quite a few minutes before the bonus was removed from my uplinks. I assume that checksum on what suit and what I'm holding against what is deployed would have a similar delay.
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
1056
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 17:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Dubya Guy wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
What was not made clear in the original post is that this change is intended to deal with multiple issues:
1)Decrease Equipment Spam
2)Discourage Role Switching. Increase the commitment to the role you spawn into.
3)Nerf Scouts who act as fast Logi.
4)Nerf Sentinels who try to get around their lack of an equipment slot.
5)Buff Caldari/Amarr Logi, provided they stick to their role.
I can see how it might be problematic in that sticking to roles ultimately requires people to be grouped and communicating to be an effective team. The fact that heavies don't have a slot has always suggested to me that they're meant to have logistics backup for full efficacy. That people don't always play as a team and vets can one-man-army using multiple roles is sort of a separate issue. The only real issue to me is that the role exclusion is ultimately a logi-specific thing here. Going from logi to blank - you're punished with equipment lost. Go from heavy to scout, scout to assault, etc. it doesn't matter because the only real role restriction is equipment-based. I agree Zeylon Rho. If you want to buff Logi's, buff Logi's. If you want to discourage role-tourism, there are more straightforward ways that involve applying the "cost" to the player at the supply depot, rather than a "cost" to the team when some blueberry switches and randomly pops that well-placed uplink you thought your squad could use. There is little accountability in the role-switching aspect of this, and it really only encourages Logi's to persist and not other roles. There are numerous threads about problems with the supply depot. I think adding a 30 second delay to suit switching at depots, or possibly even costing a clone, would be role-neutral, player-costing alternatives that don't require a whole new game mechanic. Please, buff Logi's. But don't pretend this equipment-popping, bandwidth idea is a good way to address role-switching. There's plenty of logi-buffing discussion in Cross' thread, this is a separate but related issue. This should be seen as a 'fix' to EQ spam, particularly by non-logis, not a specific nerf to scouts or the only or even primary means by which to buff logi's.
I agree. Keeping this thread on task for reducing EQ spam should be the center point. I've seen every suit/role imaginable spamming EQ and that's what we hope to stop. If I could team kill every bb I saw throwing down 12 nanohives around a supply depot...
Knights of Ender Director
Logi 4 Life | Youtube Vids
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
1057
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 18:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dubya Guy wrote:lee corwood wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
There's plenty of logi-buffing discussion in Cross' thread, this is a separate but related issue. This should be seen as a 'fix' to EQ spam, particularly by non-logis, not a specific nerf to scouts or the only or even primary means by which to buff logi's.
I agree. Keeping this thread on task for reducing EQ spam should be the center point. I've seen every suit/role imaginable spamming EQ and that's what we hope to stop. If I could team kill every bb I saw throwing down 12 nanohives around a supply depot... My apologies. I had no intention of moving off task. I was only responding to Cross's pointer to this thread in the referenced Logi-buff thread, and him indicating they were intricately tied together. Forget I said "Buff Logi's". Forget I suggested this is an unfair solution to "role-switching". Yes, it will limit equipment spam. Yea!! I think it carries a lot of baggage in order to do so. Boo!! I think there are better ways to limit equipment spam, but this thread is about this one idea which seems to be a done deal, so since I can't seem to get on board with it enough to debate the specific numbers, and discussing its overall shortcomings is off-task, I'll leave off.
No worries, Dubya. I also think this needs a good bit of review. As a logi 98% of the time, I don't see this affecting my role as much. But a buff isn't going to help. We take this casual conversations (not you specifically, just the forum in general) of how it would 'devastate' a role and 'at least' give role A a buff to this or that or that role will be 'destroyed'. This kind of meddling before it can be actually implemented is what causes such sway to begin with.
I think its been stated that logi should excel as the EQ of all the roles, so that's already great. My understanding that the BW we have dictates what we can lay down, not tied down to suit or numbers. This is also great. I start every match as a scout laying down 3 uplinks and then switch to logi support with nanohives. I only drop a nanohive when my squad asks for one. Therefore, the impact here isn't keeping me specifically from doing my support role.
-However, I do see that having a great impact on the Scout role (no more fast logis).
-I see this impacting my AV Sentinel suit depending on how limited the BW is
-I definitely see this impacting my Proxie suit given how many I need to deal with a tank
And in general, I disagree with someone's statement on not increasing BW benefits to prototype tiers. I think that would actually encourage more people to run them and boost the economy. We claim its unfair to newer players, and as a long time advocate for newer players, I don't think you should penalized veteran specialization either. Protostomping already exists. EQ Spamming already exists. The proposed changes would actually limit what they do already today. There are many other areas where NPE could be improved.
And if this BW does get implemented, a BW meter should be mandatory. Doing that math midst combat would not be fun. I realize I run a logistics class but we don't have slots for calculators.
Knights of Ender Director
Logi 4 Life | Youtube Vids
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
1059
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 10:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:So I guess once the gal logis have dropped their deployables they'll be swapping out for their quad scanner suit?
scanner plus injector and rep tool with a back up nanohive in a pinch, but likely hoarding and never using.
EDIT: regardless of race, I don't see the rep tool being given up by any logi, unless they aren't actually a logi
Knights of Ender Director
Logi 4 Life | Youtube Vids
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
1059
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 10:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:Llast 326 wrote:Imp Smash wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So I read through the thread and looked at the spreadsheet, and I don't know if I fully understand how this works.
REs are set at 4, with a standard scout at 4.
If I lay out one RE, does that equal 4 and laying out another would negate the first?
Or, because they are both the same piece of EQ, would I be able to lay out the rest?
I am fine for not letting scouts infringe on Logi territory, but if I can't lay out 3 std REs on a Std or Adv scout, that is going to be a problem. Every RE you place counts as 4 BW. So if you place 2 REs you have 8 spent. Say you have 16 BW. You can spend 8 more. Any spent after that will cause the first RE placed (I think) to go pop. Although come to think of it, if you could throw REs REALLy fast, you could throw 5 REs, into a crowd causing the first RE you threw to pop before the 4 second timer on REs has expired and blow them early! o.O MUAHAHAHHAHA All joking aside, why would it be a problem if scouts can only lay 1 or 2 REs? Because it takes Three to take out a HAVGǪ And it is not an easy task to do. If a scout can only lay one or two, then it is only encouraging their use as an anti Infantry weapon. Just work in pairs then... job done. Seriously, how in the world is it reasonable for a freaking SOLO puny scout to take out a freaking super-powered tanks with high tech nanites and shields anyways? Instead having an assault or logi distract the tank with some swarms/plasma while a scout sneaks in to place an RE or two would be the perfect teamwork/gameplay goal IMO. Its not down to the suit, the suit just allows you to be sneaky and fast ever see a logi try to re a tank?
Yep. Seen it and I've done it. I found it has absolutely nothing to do with the suit and everything to do with the tanker. 8 out of 10 tankers I encounter have really poor situational awareness. I usually don't even consider remoting a tank until I've first encountered it on the map and it let me get right next to it.
But that aside, even as a proto swarmer, unless the tank driver panics and gets stuck on terrain, I normally don't solo tanks. I do aid in finishing the job, definitely. Maybe I'm just lucky because I hear all these horror stories about tanks and yet in almost every match I've played, I wasn't the only one who brought out AV to deal with it.
I have had a few matches in the past where I was most definitely alone. He was demolishing our clones and we couldn't bring in a tank without him blowing it up before the RDV let go. I had to lay out mine traps and use my swarms to trick him into running them over. Took me 540K to do it, but worth it. With the proposed changes however, that won't be possible, but again, that specific situation was a LONG time ago.
Knights of Ender Director
Logi 4 Life | Youtube Vids
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
1059
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 10:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Syeven Reed wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:Syeven Reed wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:
OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other?
Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. Exactly, BW is less binary than "let's stop stuff being placed here". wtf does " binary" have to do with it? Except that BW WON'T stop or limit bitches from dropping equipment all over supply depots to initiate lag? Binary - Yes or No, 1 or 0, True or False. Your right it won't stop them, thats the point. However when they move to a different suit the equipment is going to go poof.
ONLY if that different suit has lower BW than the previous, at which point it would 'poof' the EQ that is OVER the new suits BW in the queue order it was laid. There is nothing to stop multiple players from coming together and laying down 1-2 nanohives each to try and initiate this, but that sounds like a lot of effort.
Knights of Ender Director
Logi 4 Life | Youtube Vids
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