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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1965
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:36:00 -
[61] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:John Psi wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:[quote=John Psi]Your suggested solution of having equipment die when the person who places them dies will mean that every member of the team will have to quip Uplinks all the time, just to insure there are always uplinks up. No one would play logi, because the only effective way to keep your Uplinks up after you placed them would be to withdraw from the fight. No team wants to be down a man, so Logi would be useless in PC. Absolutley correct. Logi has no place in combat, since losing the efficiency over for asault/scout/etc. Nobody wants to lose better fighter in pursuit of efficiency, it makes logi stupid suit for battlefield preparation. You can remove his rifle - he does not need. Once equpment drop - play Mario. Yeah no, I disagree...but if you go spawn in as a heavy..yeah all dat logi equipment say bye bye.
this dosnt matter.. its just stupid... if equipment were to expire when a logi died (which is goddamned often due to being slow/low ehp/yellow will just make EVERYONE persecute logi even more meaning NO ONE even die hard logi like myself would want to play logi anymore.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13274
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
We would need clear UI to tell us bandwidth information.
It needs to not clutter our screen, so only make it active when we have equipment out, and it should tell us these things:
Total bandwidth on the suit
Bandwidth currently used
List of equipment deployed, the bottom equipment being destroyed in the case of bandwidth overload
Currently held equipment
How much the currently held equipment will take from said bar
I have made an illustration of what I mean (Excuse my very basic knowledge of photoshop):
http://i.imgur.com/l4n5ef9.jpg - Enough bandwidth to drop equipment
http://i.imgur.com/XmeNLg5.jpg - Not enough bandwidth to drop equipment
In the equipment list, green is the item not yet deployed, blue are the deployed items, and red is the item that will be destroyed upon deployment of green.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Minime Al
Alteredgenetic
29
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Bethhy wrote:First off, Put the proper time and effort into Fixing Needles.
You have effectively killed it and removed an entire part of the game that could of been great.
I Have spent two years posting about Needles. I Have posts with thousands of likes regarding -1 death from needle use.
Logis are fine with a WP cap over time for reviving, everyone is fine with it.
Removing an entire part of the game instead of building and adding to it... IS going backwards.
I Hate "I Told you So's" But there are hundreds of times now that I have given CCP plenty of forward warning about purposed changes that will hurt the game and they went ahead and screwed themselves anyway.
IS there a point to feedback if a Developers mind is already closed? Fixing needles? what's wrong with them? 
In team they ok. Solo - they useless. |
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4673
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 16:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:
Yeah no, I disagree...but if you go spawn in as a heavy..yeah all dat logi equipment say bye bye.
this dosnt matter.. its just stupid... if equipment were to expire when a logi died (which is goddamned often due to being slow/low ehp/yellow will just make EVERYONE persecute logi even more meaning NO ONE even die hard logi like myself would want to play logi anymore.[/quote]
If you spawn back in a logi suit...your equipment should persist from the previous life.
if you spawn in an assault...equipment from your previous logi life should pop until you get down to your current suits allotted bandwidth.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
401
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point.
For a scout yes, its which peice of quipment do i carry while i'm slaying. A scouts bonus isn't tied to equippment save a cloak.
For any player running a logi, you have to sacrifice every other suit your specced into just to keep uplinks/nanohives up. The changes drastically restrict anybody running a logi to one suit.
Any player not running deployables can switch between a scout, heavy, logi, assault, commando.
Any amarr logi can only run amarr logi, and lose everything if he spawns anything other but an amarr logi.
What has been taken into consideration to negate this?
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4673
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
Minime Al wrote:
In team they ok. Solo - they useless.
Why?
People don't wait for them?
People don't use them?
I mean...there's plenty of things that are going to get used less in pubs vs a team environment.
(you know how often i notice a person with hack modules on?)
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13274
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:48:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point.
For a scout yes, its which peice of quipment do i carry while i'm slaying. A scouts bonus isn't tied to equippment save a cloak. For any player running a logi, you have to sacrifice every other suit your specced into just to keep uplinks/nanohives up. The changes drastically restrict anybody running a logi to one suit. Any player not running deployables can switch between a scout, heavy, logi, assault, commando. Any amarr logi can only run amarr logi, and lose everything if he spawns anything other but an amarr logi. What has been taken into consideration to negate this?
We can switch to a scout, heavy, log, assault and commando while giving up the strengths and weaknesses of our previous suit for the strengths and weaknesses of a new suit.
Logis are no different, their strength being a lot of equipment, weakness being general combat ability.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4883
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:50:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:We would need clear UI to tell us bandwidth information. It needs to not clutter our screen, so only make it active when we have equipment out, and it should tell us these things: Total bandwidth on the suit
Bandwidth currently used
List of equipment deployed, the bottom equipment being destroyed in the case of bandwidth overload
Currently held equipment
How much the currently held equipment will take from said bar
I have made an illustration of what I mean (Excuse my very basic knowledge of photoshop): http://i.imgur.com/l4n5ef9.jpg - Enough bandwidth to drop equipment http://i.imgur.com/XmeNLg5.jpg - Not enough bandwidth to drop equipment In the equipment list, green is the item not yet deployed, blue are the deployed items, and red is the item that will be destroyed upon deployment of green.
Nice mock-up. That would be very helpful.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4673
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Posted - 2014.11.18 16:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:A couple points about some of this.
Scouts with two slots aka the scout logi: This is rarely used to deploy equipment at logistic levels. They will still use a rep tool and needles just as well as any non minmatar logi, or the same with uplinks with any non amarr logi. I don't see any change here. The only deployable they spam are R.Es, which has its own major issues.
Quality: Then there must be a decrease in high tier equipment prices. Proto equiment, especially nano hives are tremendously expensive both in terms of PG/CPU and isk.
In PC it's much more conducive to run a scout with 2 links than a logi because scanning immunity means you can operate unimpeded and you're much quicker about it. Scouts are the logi's of the competitive scene.
The barbershop often says a scanned scout is a dead scout
In PC...a scanned anything is a dead anything unless you're a blob or a heavy
I seriously believe ether logi's should just get another 25% buff to fitting equipment. Equipment fitting costs should be one of the incentives to running a logi suit.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Raffael-Puma Austria
Storm.Fighters
E.B.O.L.A.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Don't change anything! CCP what is wrong with you ??? Never touch a running system!!!!!
The havys need 25.000-50.000HP and the logi 15.000 or 40.000HP, i know it looks very crazy and stupid but CCP you have the same stupid ideas like me!
The logistic suites should have 12-15slots and not 8! And more equipment slots, because the scout have 2 and the logi ony 4, logis should have 8 equipment slots on pro or better in a officer suite for 250-500.000 isk per suite!
I hate Update 1.9 and RailRifle fix! Only selfrepair is cool, but havy need more HP/s
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4883
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point.
For a scout yes, its which peice of quipment do i carry while i'm slaying. A scouts bonus isn't tied to equippment save a cloak. For any player running a logi, you have to sacrifice every other suit your specced into just to keep uplinks/nanohives up. The changes drastically restrict anybody running a logi to one suit. Any player not running deployables can switch between a scout, heavy, logi, assault, commando. Any amarr logi can only run amarr logi, and lose everything if he spawns anything other but an amarr logi. What has been taken into consideration to negate this?
It would be a question of whether keeping the first two (or 3) pieces of equipment you dropped is more important than changing roles to react to a new situation. Maybe it would be better to change from a Rifle Logi fit to a Mass Driver Logi fit, rather than switching to a Sentinel? Maybe it is worth sacrificing some equipment to bring an HMG Sentinel in for point defence. Remember, the last couple of equipment you deployed will still be active (provided they give the Sentinel some Bandwidth).
I see your point and partially agree with you, but I also think that Logi bonuses should only be available to Logi suits. I am all for switching fits to match the situation, but there has to be a limit to how many roles you can play at one time. It is not like ALL the Logi equipment will pop, just the some of it.
In the current game, if I am running an Assault suit and placing Remote Explosives to guard objectives, and then I decide I need to place an Uplink, I have to sacrifice the ability to detonate the Remote Explosives to do so. It is a tactical decision over what is more useful to the team at that time. Sacrifices must sometimes be made.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4883
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:08:00 -
[72] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point.
For a scout yes, its which peice of quipment do i carry while i'm slaying. A scouts bonus isn't tied to equippment save a cloak. For any player running a logi, you have to sacrifice every other suit your specced into just to keep uplinks/nanohives up. The changes drastically restrict anybody running a logi to one suit. Any player not running deployables can switch between a scout, heavy, logi, assault, commando. Any amarr logi can only run amarr logi, and lose everything if he spawns anything other but an amarr logi. What has been taken into consideration to negate this? We can switch to a scout, heavy, log, assault and commando while giving up the strengths and weaknesses of our previous suit for the strengths and weaknesses of a new suit. Logis are no different, their strength being a lot of equipment, weakness being general combat ability.
Sometimes you are more eloquent and concise than I am.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
5457
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
WouldnGÇÖt giving them the SAME Bandwidth as a suit with only 1 equipment slot already do that?
Why make Bandwidth complicated for non-logi?
Not really, we have more bandwidth than we actually need for one equipment. Giving scouts the same amount would make them slightly too free with equipment, at least in my opinion. Then have Bandwidth apply to all equipment, not just deployables. Have the Scout CPU/PG reduction bonus to fitting the Cloak also apply to Cloaking Device Bandwidth.
Why run a cloak then, just double down on REGǪ
That won't really be a positive thing judging by peoples vitriol for REs
MOAR Ladders
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2588
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
Could we also get some sort of indication or HUD icon that displays how much bandwidth is left? Would also be good to see when links or hives have been destroyed.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1903
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:16:00 -
[75] - Quote
+1 very good
General thoughts:
We need actual numbers instead of placeholders to identify the problems. The mechanics behind your thinking are great, but we really need the BW data to determine if its fair to all roles. Some of the equipment BW cost is too similar, they need to vary by function and use, as usual uplinks should cost the most BW. Note: cost of the compact is too high.
BW allotment should not scale quite so high IMO. I think all the prototype allotments are TOO high. There needs to be a decision making process on which equipment should go out. Currently at prototype tier there is still the ability to spam all your equipment. Commando and Assault should not have same allotment, progression is stated below in "other frames"
@Scout
A scout with 4 bandwidth doesn't seem all too bad IMO. I'm looking forward to the change in tactics (spawn in as speed tank scout with two uplinks, then switch to combat fit at depot) You mention that one slot is designated for cloak, but scouts can hardly fit cloak until they hit racial 5. This is something that needs to be addressed; please make the cloak fitting a role bonus.
@Other frames
I think your basic premise is solid. Support players should remain support if they want to leave their "support" oriented deployable on the field, awesome. The progression I see for BW amount is Sentinel->Scout->Commando->Assault->>Logi. I think 8 deployed items is still a ton of EQ on the field. That is too much and still elicits spam, we need them to make a choice. Should I toss down this repping nanohive, because it will cost me an uplink etc.
There are multiple items in each stack of EQ, so losing an uplink to an important nanohive shouldn't be a problem.
Needs
We absolutely need a UI system to notify the players of their allotment. This allotment should also be shown on the fitting screen so we can judge how many of each equipped deployable we can place out.
TL:DR
Great start, needs further refinement, too much allotment, more variety of BW cost, needs UI.
My Youtube
Biomassed Podcast
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3896
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Second thought: can we have drones pleaseeeeeee, legit question is it possible to implement personal drones?
Overall I like this idea, +1
Last I heard drones have a performance cost equal to that of players in game so they are not really a viable option (over all a higher baseline performance and beyond that potentially more players per team would both be higher priorities I believe)
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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shaman oga
The Dunwich Horror
3224
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
This change seem good, you choose one role for the match, you keep that role or you sacrify your deployable.
I would like to point some things:
1) VERY IMPORTANT - remeber to show all the stats in game
2) If you will pass over your bandwith with the next equipment, can you show it in a different color in the radial menu?
e.g. You have Proxy mines (2) and links (4), your limit is 16, you have deployed 3 hives (12) and 1 proxy (2), total is 14, can you show the next hive in yellow?
3) Will RE finally be treated like other equipments and not like ammo? If so, will we have the same number of active and carried equipment?
Will not ask anything about logi slot progression. |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
401
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
Quote:Zatara Rought wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:
Yeah no, I disagree...but if you go spawn in as a heavy..yeah all dat logi equipment say bye bye.
this dosnt matter.. its just stupid... if equipment were to expire when a logi died (which is goddamned often due to being slow/low ehp/yellow will just make EVERYONE persecute logi even more meaning NO ONE even die hard logi like myself would want to play logi anymore. If you spawn back in a logi suit...your equipment should persist from the previous life. if you spawn in an assault...equipment from your previous logi life should pop until you get down to your current suits allotted bandwidth.
What this proposal is designed to make pretty much the same as losing equipment when you die, except the small caveat that if you stick with a logi suit no matter what they stay alive.
It give Logistic players a false choice between remaining in the same suit no matter what is happening or adapting to the battle and throw everything they brought with them in garbage.
Scouts, assaults, commandos and heavies aren't being presented with this dilemma, so all they see it as is an over all reduction in equipment that they don't deploy or bring with them for individual use
I see it as inflicting a severe penalty on logis or anyone who doesn't have just one suit, and finally rendering the amarrand caldari logi in thier current state as obsolete. Kill all the amarr/caldari logis when they finally change into a slayer fit to deal with heavies scouts assaults and commandos, all the equipment on the map dies with them.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
5457
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
I really think Proxies are going to need a serious looking at after this changeGǪ Pretty rare to see them used right now. When they are in competition with Uplinks and HivesGǪ they will become rare indeed.
MOAR Ladders
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dwater
General Tso's Alliance
79
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:42:00 -
[80] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:
What this proposal is designed to make pretty much the same as losing equipment when you die, except the small caveat that if you stick with a logi suit no matter what they stay alive.
It give Logistic players a false choice between remaining in the same suit no matter what is happening or adapting to the battle and throw everything they brought with them in garbage.
Scouts, assaults, commandos and heavies aren't being presented with this dilemma, so all they see it as is an over all reduction in equipment that they don't deploy or bring with them for individual use
I see it as inflicting a severe penalty on logis or anyone who doesn't have just one suit, and finally rendering the amarrand caldari logi in thier current state as obsolete. Kill all the amarr/caldari logis when they finally change into a slayer fit to deal with heavies scouts assaults and commandos, all the equipment on the map dies with them.
I have cal logi and i don't see this problem the way you see it. If anything, in order to keep my equipment up I'd just swap to a slayer fit callogi and slay if the battle conditions as you call them change to try and deal with heavies and other stuff
Sadly the reality is that NOTHING can deal with heavies and scouts except MORE heavies and scouts
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
8508
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:46:00 -
[81] - Quote
This is some really great stuff.
One question that's slightly off topic.
DUST 514 does not have drones, obviously that would take too much work but what about deployable small sentry turrets?
Have it be equipment and all the module does is allow you to place a defensive (or suppressive) equipment turret (small blaster, small missile, small rail) in an area of your choice and it guards the area within x meters.
DUST used to have small turrets but I'm not sure what happened to them.
This could be great and it seems more plausible than self thinking non static drones.
Diversity = Healthy
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3896
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:49:00 -
[82] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:+1 very good
General thoughts:
We need actual numbers instead of placeholders to identify the problems. The mechanics behind your thinking are great, but we really need the BW data to determine if its fair to all roles. Some of the equipment BW cost is too similar, they need to vary by function and use, as usual uplinks should cost the most BW. Note: cost of the compact is too high.
BW allotment should not scale quite so high IMO. I think all the prototype allotments are TOO high. There needs to be a decision making process on which equipment should go out. Currently at prototype tier there is still the ability to spam all your equipment. Commando and Assault should not have same allotment, progression is stated below in "other frames"
{Snip}
@Other frames
I think your basic premise is solid. Support players should remain support if they want to leave their "support" oriented deployable on the field, awesome. The progression I see for BW allotment is Sentinel->Scout->Commando->Assault->>Logi. I think 8 deployed items is still a ton of EQ on the field. That is too much and still elicits spam, we need them to make a choice. Should I toss down this repping nanohive, because it will cost me an uplink etc.
There are multiple items in each stack of EQ, so losing an uplink to an important nanohive shouldn't be a problem.
I have to vigorously disagree with this notion. The Logistics class is defined by it's ability to use equipment, both its suit stats and it's skill bonuses (racial and role) are devoted to this throttling the use of equipment for support players such that they are unable to employ all of their slots and skill buffs - if they have already made the sacrifices in fittings to have all of those present - is a further nerf to support play which is, bluntly, already in a sub-optimal state (especially the Cal and Amarr Logistics who would be hurt most severely by the alteration you propose).
I also have to further disagree with your assessment of the compact hive, it is a 'one stop shop' for personal support and as such should not be an inexpensive bandwidth option, 3 for such a hive seems entirely reasonable within the context of the placeholder numbers I have seen.
IgniteableAura wrote:
Needs
We absolutely need a UI system to notify the players of their allotment. This allotment should also be shown on the fitting screen (as well as in battle) so we can judge how many of each equipped deployable we can place out.
This I unreservedly agree with, a UI for providing feedback to the players about their bandwidth status would be ideal.
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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ContraBanJoe
GOAT FLOCK YOURSELF
FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
405
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:50:00 -
[83] - Quote
I notice there is a column in the spreadsheet beside the equipment called "Full". Can somebody explain what that represents?
Overall (as a huge spam logi), I like the proposed changes, and will figure out how to adapt.
FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
PXRXO / FWARM / TTOTS / MXOXD / GFYOU
DOUBLE FIST
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3896
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:This is awesome. Keep the stuff coming Rattati!
Will this mean that equipment wont use CPU/PG anymore, or is BW another parameter on top of CPU/PG?
BW is a new stat relevant to in match play, CPU/PG are out of match stats relevant to the building of fittings and the mechanics of their function will not be altered by the BW system.
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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Minime Al
Alteredgenetic
29
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Minime Al wrote:
In team they ok. Solo - they useless.
Why? People don't wait for them? People don't use them? I mean...there's plenty of things that are going to get used less in pubs vs a team environment. (you know how often i notice a person with hack modules on?)
My exemple. After changes I play some matches and no one ask for help.
My action. ? Why I must spend equipment slot for nothing. I change it on RE, nano hives etc.
In team - players discuss situation (revive or not) and do it right.
Not everyone want win. Many just want WP. More WP.
Other want be revived by profi, not by noob.... And ------- They just die.
Many want good K/D. Maybe this is a problem. This must be reworked.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4285
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Flexibility will be fine for any other suit, switching an assault to a commando, a scout to heavy, etc. The only suit/players to be penalized for being flexible are amarr and caldari logis to a large extent, to a lessre extent any other logi. The message to them is "you had better not change suits or else your bonus, isk, and SP investment = zero".
This only really effects Amarr and Caldari logis if we're looking at it strictly from current racial bonuses. Gallente and Minmatar aren't tied to deployables. The mater becomes how do we address this possible sense of inflexibility of Amarr and Caldari logi player being locked into their suits to remain viable to the team.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4974
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot?
In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot.
If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined.
Exactly. The idea that if you want uplinks or ammo around "not only you must be a amarr or caldari Logi, you must only be these logis and anytime you are not one of these logis all of your stuff will die" Why would i want to restrict myself to just these suits every match? The example given only works out in the Gal facility, otherwise i do want my friend who threw down some uplinks to change suits to fight at the point because we need him there. I do want to be flexible enough to say "right, we formed a good battle line with hives and links but the red are pushing, i'll repawn as a heavy to hold tight, or an assualt/commando to hit em from range, or a scout to flank" without having to choose between perma running one suit to have any sort of equipment available to the team.
Because do your job.
It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
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matsumoto yuichi san
The Elite Few Inc.
The Methodical Alliance
84
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:John Psi wrote:It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit.
Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So the roll of a Logi should be to cower in a corner once all their equipment is deployed? Nono, as long as you respawn in a Logi again, they stay up. Rattati...quick point on this. It does limit the tactical flexibility players have when they get painted into a corner (i.e. perhaps too steep a cost for switching roles in the match). The ability to adapt mid-game between suits / fits ect is at least for me a major positive of the game and this may induce too steep a penalty. Consider this...quite a few dedicated Logi players also play Sentinel as well. Imagine dropping a couple uplinks and seeding your nanohives and if it looks like the enemy push is gaining momentum you switch to your heavy hmg and poof...the hardpoint you had set up to support your team is gone. Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point.
you tell em ratatti, support via hmg sent OR via logi, can't get both, if you need a different logi fit, fine too, so long as BW on that fit is the same. |
Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3897
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 18:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Quality: Then there must be a decrease in high tier equipment prices. Proto equiment, especially nano hives are tremendously expensive both in terms of PG/CPU and isk.
Agreed that ISK prices on equipment should come down across the boards, strongly disagree that CPU/PG should be decreased.
Tesfa Alem wrote:Logis vs other suits/ bandwidth: Be carefull of shoehorning players specced into logis into one single role. If i say deploy with my amarr logi and put down links, get killed, and my buddy's crying for backup. If i choose anything other than an amarr logi, I lose all of the equipment i spent a good deal of time and isk to deploy and put down, and now we look at at redeploying from the redline. Heaven forbid you switch out to a heavy, all the equipment brought dissapears.
Equipment spam isn't cheap equippment being thrown down, its about lots of high tier equipment and suits being switched out at a supply depot.
If you are playing a Heavy (either mando or sent) and swap to another suit you no longer have a heavy weapon or 2x light weapons, if you are playing a scout and swap to another suit you no longer have top flight mobility and eWar, if you are playing an assault and swap to a new frame you lose the bonus to racial weapons and weapons fittings.
Now if you are playing a logi and you swap into another role so you are no longer playing a logi you no longer provide that support to your squad this appropriately will include equipment deployed beyond the BW of the new role you have chosen to play at that time. This is not shoehorning players into anything, this is applying an opportunity cost.
Tesfa Alem wrote:MUST List bandwidth in fittings screen No point in fitting something i cannot deploy.
Completely agree that BW should be listed prominently, however it should be on the equipment itself. The fittings screen cannot accurately display BW as the BW mechanic itself hinges on deployed equipment which is a variable effect, we need an in match UI for that purpose.
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3897
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 18:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I think it is very important to somehow show the bandwidth of current deployed equiment in the "spawn in" screen UI, and also to show "current selected dropsuit bandwidth" in order to be able to compare these two and make the right decision on the battlefield.
Agreed. +1
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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