We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks.

How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta?

Go!

1) No. This does not help balance the other Scouts. it only hurts Gallente Scouts
2) This is a terrible idea. What the hell happened to the "Don't force scouts to use the cloak" idea that we were desperate and asked the CPM to show the absolute level of need for?

The problem is that 1.8 really balanced each scout with each other, I mean the numbers were flawlessly reflected off of each other, but it was built like a house of cards, you pull one and it comes falling down.

Currently in supremacy is

1) Gal
2) Cal
3) Min/Ama

What this post is asking here is what scout do we want to be the op scout, the gal scout or the caldari scout? If you nerf the gallente, then its cal scout or go home. If you don't touch anything right now, its gal scout or go home.

This is EZ-mode pub match stuff. It is not PC meta.

The Gallente scout changes should honestly be held off until after hotfix alpha drops, the benefit of a Gallente scout is stealth but that really is its only benefit. Reducing it's ability to stealth opens up the doors for the meta to shift from the Gallente to the Caldari.

If the Gallente cannot passively hide from an equally stacked Caldari scout then the Gallente has now become obsolete. At the same time a Gallente scout shouldnt be able to pick up a Caldari scout with equal dampeners than he has precision enhancers. It should work out as in a situation were a Caldari scout has 3 precision enhancers and 2 damps a Gallente has 3 profile dampener and 2 enhancers, none will be able to passively scan each other. Leaving just the two to go unaware of each others presence or let their eyeballs do some work.

As for the Minmatar and Amarr scout the issue is that they cannot hide very well either, I think a good change for them could be removing one of their bonuses and swapping it with either a profile dampening bonus and a scanning bonus.

4 months? It was a nearly a year last time. How soon we forget.

FoTM "slayers" prefer the GalScout today, but they will not tomorrow if required to Dampen. In other words, Rattati appears to have solved the brick-tanked Scout problem. Though in doing so, he has (1) tipped the eWar scale in favor of Caldari Scout and (2) further marginalized the Minmatar Scout.

So, if I get only one change, I'd ask it to be:

Let the Minmatar Scout keep the cloak's dampening bonus.
Let him be the knife-wielding assassin in the shadows.

And if by chance I were permitted a second change:

Give the Amarr Scout a meaningful bonus.
Something to set him apart from the others.

The Amarr Assault is down a slot
The Caldari and Gallente Assaults have bonuses that are ill-fitting and limiting to just racial weapons
The Minmatar Assault still has the odd layout and is still CPU/PG starved.

And there is too much overlap between the role of an Assault and the role of Commando.

The Base HP between Light and Medium is not that great after multiple HP modules are added to both suits simultaneously in equal numbers.

The Gallente Scout is overly attractive because it has the highest base repair rate, much like the Logi was the most desirable frame before because it has a repair rate of 5hp/s. 1hp/s gives it flavor. 3hp/sec gives it utility.

Why, oh why, would people flock to scouts when Assault suits look so desirable.

You pointed out that Cirius Li-Moody was vocal about the changes. And for some reason you think an inconsequential 2 and 5% bonus on cloaks is a compromise.

Now you come around and say, "Gallente looks OP. They should be nerfed as well"

24CPU, 14PG, 1 EQ slot
vs
215CPU, 19 PG, 1 EQ slot and 4 Low slots.

yep. Gallente Logistics are SPECIALIZE, with capitalization even.

1 low cost active modules can only be avoided by 4 low slots costing 33 CPU each and an active equipment slot that takes 87 CPU and 18 PG. Totally comparable.

[quote=CCP Rattati]
Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants.

Ok, scouts, please come back to me on this problem, exactly as I word it.

Here is the premise

1) I want to encourage stealth players to go to proto cloak
2) GA scout will be the only scout that is completely unscannable
3) Not let GA scouts be the only stealth scouts and use cloaks

So, I have been told, I can verify when I am back at work, that if we change the cloak to be at 10% dampening instead of 5% at PRO, at least 3 stealth scouts are viable with cloak, GA, CA and MM. I think that's fine, I don't think everyone should be equally good at everthing. Amarr will get a look soon.

Max scan precision from CA scout is 17 (if my math is correct), terribly close to 16.

Since I want the only thing to beat the 100% dedicated scout scanner to be a 100% dedicated stealth scout.

A triple complex dampened, GA scout with a cloak at the new 10% level is at 13.5 or 14 dB.

That means we can reduce the GA Scout bonus to 15% from 25% and still stay under the CA scout at 15.3 or 16dB.

Thereby forcing the dedicate GA scout to sacrifice a low in most cases, so that he can't spend it on armor.

For the coup de grace, we can reduce the range of the CA passive scan a little bit because it's unnecessarily good.


Please respond to this in a civil manner, we are actively trying to listen and adapt our proposals based on your feedback.

ok, I should have worded the first premise "at least one scout is unscannable", not "just one"

To recap and please don't derail this

Cloak Dampening 0-5-10 STD-ADV-PRO

MM, AM, GA are unscannable if PRO cloaked with additional dampeners.

what does the GA scout dampening bonus of 25% need to be reduced by so GA scouts still have an advantage as the best stealth suit, without being OP? Take into account that the 3 hp/s is also making it very OP and that may be reduced and/or eliminated as well.


Please only answer that question for the time being.

Thanks

What the hell. Really.

I stay off the forums for a few days, and apparently I've lost my chance to state my opinion about a four-way nerf to the suit I use 98% of the time. Well, I'm gonna state it anyway. So there.

I'm fine with the cloak nerf. I'm fine with the armor regen nerf in addition to the cloak nerf. It's starting to hurt when you add the dampening nerf, but I can see reasonable arguments being made for equipping another dampener.

When you add the scan range nerf on top of that, though, it gets a bit silly. 1 stinking percent per level? At level 5, that makes for a whopping 1 meter increase over the base scan range. Throw a complex range extender on, and the total range increase you get from that suit bonus is 1,45 meters. Woohoo.

You might as well just remove the whole bonus. It's useless anyway. If it's removed, at least I get to complain like the Amarr scouts have been doing over their single specialization bonus.

Seriously, it's like giving a waiter a 10 cent tip. It's an insult - it would be far better not tipping at all.

if hacking mods were in high slots, the matari would hack circles around the gallante, while still being dual/triple dampened (matari)

only problem is the cal scout with 4 codebreakers :p

put kin kats, and codebreakers in high slots, rest in low? :\

i dunno :p i just spam options.

(puts bowl down)

What happened to 'one step at a time'?

Start with the cloak-to-firing nerf, couple with a reduction to 25/45/90

Dampening can be dropped, i agree with this. However it completely negates the use of Min Scout, who used to require 2 damps + cloak to be invisible, now it needs 3.

This nerf leaves minscout no capability to speed tank, instead requiring 3 damps.

I propose, for starters, we drop DB reduction to 15/20/25% between tiers.

This makes basic a usable entry tier, while Prototype is specialized(not to mention the fact that non-Gal scouts need to sacrifice very little)

The case for having STD-ADV-PRO cloak fields at 0-7.5-15.

Reason for STD 0 - No dampening bonus from cloak means you have to give up low slots to gain max benefit.

Reason for ADV 7.5 - A slight dampening bonus means that a higher cpu/pg investment is slightly rewarded.

Reason for PRO 15 - It will allow Amarr & Minmatar Scouts that give up half of their module slots and uses the most cpu/pg intensive cloak to remain hidden. It allows Gallente the choice between using either half their module slots or 2/6 modules & the most cpu/pg expensive cloak field to remain hidden.

The scanners still win by:
A) Detecting the scanee
B) Forcing the scanee to make huge sacrifices in order to remain hidden.

On B): This is probably still severe enough for Scouts to warrant dropping their fits/suits (because they are not competitive) and either going light assault or switching suits.

To recap and please don't derail this

Cloak Dampening 0-5-10 STD-ADV-PRO

MM, AM, GA are unscannable if PRO cloaked with additional dampeners.

what does the GA scout dampening bonus of 25% need to be reduced by so GA scouts still have an advantage as the best stealth suit, without being OP? Take into account that the 3 hp/s is also making it very OP and that may be reduced and/or eliminated as well.


Please only answer that question for the time being.

Thanks