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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 178 post(s) |
DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles
993
   |
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:25:00 -
[1261] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Per Prophet's Request:
Here's an overview of our Active Scanner immunities. In summary a Level 5 Scout with zero SP invested in Profile Dampening will be immune to all Standard and Advanced Tier Scanners.
To render yourself immune to Proto Scanners, you'll need to run a Complex Dampener. Our only weakness is going to be the Meta 9 "Focused" Scanner ... short of putting together a non-com Sneak Suit this one will be capable of sniffing us out.
Active Scanner, Precision Tiers
Meta 1-2 (standard) - 46 dB
Meta 4-5 (advanced) - 36 dB
Meta 7-8 (proto) - 28 dB
Meta 9 (proto) - 15 dB
Light/Scout Suit, Profile Tiers
Lvl(1) Light-Frame - 45 dB - Immune to standard scanners.
Lvl(5) Scout - 33.75 dB - Immune to standard and advanced scanners.
Lvl(5) Scout + Lvl(5) Profile Dampening - 30.38 dB - No change to immunity by maxing out PD skill.
Lvl(5) Scout + 1 CmpDmp - 22.78 dB - Immune to all but a single Meta 9 Scanner.
Is this with the skill dampening as well? |
DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:34:00 -
[1262] - Quote
Yes, with max skills you can only get to 30.38. And only the Gallentte scout can get below the Meta 9 scanner.
Edit: *Sigh* Just did the math, and any medium suit with at least 4 lows can get below the Meta 9 scanner as well... |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:38:00 -
[1263] - Quote
DISGRUNTLEDev wrote:Yes, with max skills you can only get to 30.38. And only the Gallentte scout can get below the Meta 9 scanner.
Edit: *Sigh* Just did the math, and any medium suit with at least 4 lows can get below the Meta 9 scanner as well...
Provided they stack 3 complex dampeners. Talk about a waste of low slots!
|
DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:42:00 -
[1264] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:
Provided they stack 3 complex dampeners. Talk about a waste of low slots!
The fact that a Cal-logi can do even this better than we can is just frickin' wrong. A Gall-Scout would have to fit 3 dampeners, but that would cause serious fitting issues, and only the proto can do that. |
First Prophet
Valor Company Incorporated
884
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:44:00 -
[1265] - Quote
Hm. Useful information. I currently have LVL 3 Dampening and LVL 3 Scout, and I was planning on going LVL 5 Dampening and staying at 3 Scout to save on SP, since scout suits have a much higher multiplier but based off this it looks like I'll have to do the reverse. At least I know I'm good for dampening now and I won't waste any SP on that. Thanks, Shotty. |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:45:00 -
[1266] - Quote
Also of potential interest to Gallente Scouts:
Passive Scan Range
Lvl(1) Light-Frame = 10 meters
Lvl(1) GalScout = 11 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout = 15 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(1) Long Range Scanning = 16.5 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(2) Long Range Scanning = 18.15 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(3) Long Range Scanning = 19.97 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(4) Long Range Scanning = 21.96 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(5) Long Range Scanning = 24.26 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +1 Cmp Amplifier - 35.02 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +2 Cmp Amplifier ~ 50.00 meters
|
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1067
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:52:00 -
[1267] - Quote
DISGRUNTLEDev wrote:Yes, with max skills you can only get to 30.38. And only the Gallentte scout can get below the Meta 9 scanner.
Edit: *Sigh* Just did the math, and any medium suit with at least 4 lows can get below the Meta 9 scanner as well...
Oh fantastic so no matter what minja's are screwed? |
DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:54:00 -
[1268] - Quote
Only for the Meta 9 scanner. You still have one low slot too, as it only takes one Complex Dampener for scouts to get below everything else. |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:55:00 -
[1269] - Quote
To conclude today's Maths ...
On Passive Scanning:
You don't see other Scouts (or Light-Frames for that matter) because our base Scan Precision is a crappy 45 dB. That's only slightly better in quality to that of a Standard-Tier Scanner, which we're all immune to as earlier discussed.
If you have SP to spare and an extra low-slot for a Complex Enhancer, your passive scanning would perform slightly better than an Advanced-Tier Scanner. Here's the progression:
Precision Enhancement Lvl(1) = 44.10 dB
Precision Enhancement Lvl(2) = 43.21 dB
Precision Enhancement Lvl(3) = 42.35 dB
Precision Enhancement Lvl(4) = 41.51 dB
Precision Enhancement Lvl(5) = 40.68 dB
+1 Complex Precision Enhancer = 32.54 dB
- Shotty |
First Prophet
Valor Company Incorporated
884
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 05:56:00 -
[1270] - Quote
One lowslot. Which means I still have to drop either a Stamina mod or a sprint mod. |
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DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 06:00:00 -
[1271] - Quote
Yeah, 'cause you're going to want to hide from the Meta 8 Quantum scanner that highlights you for 25 full seconds. The magic number, boys and girls, is 28dB.
The Meta 9 scanner is only useful for a 5 second highlight. Although, it does reach out to 200m I think... |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
714
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 06:05:00 -
[1272] - Quote
DISGRUNTLEDev wrote:Yeah, 'cause you're going to want to hide from the Meta 8 Quantum scanner that highlights you for 25 full seconds. The magic number, boys and girls, is 28dB.
The Meta 9 scanner is only useful for a 5 second highlight. Although, it does reach out to 200m I think...
Scan angle is 60 degrees. Range is 100m.
*** Scan Duration is a whopping 5 seconds. ***
If the user fails to paint you for the full 5 seconds, you'll blip in-out on TacNet/Hud ... likely safe.
If he manages to paint you for the full 5 seconds, you'll only be visible for another 5 seconds.
Not worth our worry, IMHO. Steering clear of the lesser Protos is of greater priority. |
DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 06:06:00 -
[1273] - Quote
Quantum it is then! |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
714
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 06:56:00 -
[1274] - Quote
Ran another scenario for Stealth Optimization, this time minimizing SP investment and gear requirements.
Keep in mind the number to beat is 28 dB, so we can be immune to all but one (very crappy) Meta 9 Active Scanner.
The following config just barely hits the mark:
45.00 dB - Light-Frame
42.75 dB - Scout Level 1 (-5%)
38.58 dB - Scout Level 2 (-5%)
36.65 dB - Scout Level 3 (-5%)
34.82 dB - Scout Level 4 (-5%)
33.08 dB - Scout Level 5 (-5%)
33.75 dB - Alternative Approach (45 dB * 0.75 = 33.75 dB) <---- I use this higher number to be safe.
33.08 dB - Profile Dampening Level 1 (-2%)
32.41 dB - Profile Dampening Level 2 (-2%)
27.55 dB - Equip One Basic Dampener (-15%)
I'm not certain how CCP handles rounding and ties, so I personally plan to put another point into profile dampening just to be safe. Theoretically, however, we can probably get away with Lvl(2) Dampening and a single Basic Dampening module. Not a whole lot of SP needed. Shame we'll need to use up a valuable low-slot, but Active Scanners are going to be all the rage in a few days.
Hope this Helps,
- Shotty
TLDR: Level 5 Scouts can beat Meta 8 Scanners with 2 levels in Profile Dampening and one Basic Dampening Module. |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
718
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 07:20:00 -
[1275] - Quote
Attn Level 3 Scouts:
Here's your Stealth Optimization. The number to beat is 28 dB.
45.00 dB - Light-Frame
42.75 dB - Scout Level 1 (-5%)
40.61 dB - Scout Level 2 (-5%)
38.58 dB - Scout Level 3 (-5%) < --- I use this higher number to be safe.
38.25 dB - Alternative Approach (45 dB * .85 = 38.25)
37.80 dB - Profile Dampening Level 1 (-2%)
37.05 dB - Profile Dampening Level 2 (-2%)
36.31 dB - Profile Dampening Level 3 (-2%)
35.58 dB - Profile Dampening Level 4 (-2%)
34.86 dB - Profile Dampening Level 5 (-2%)
27.89 dB - Equip One Enhanced Profile Dampener (-20%)
* It may make more sense to put another point into Scout Suits for the passive bonus. I'm not sure which path is more SP intensive. In my opinion, leveling the Suit will benefit you more than leveling Dampening to 5.
- Shotty
TLDR: Level 3 Scouts can beat Meta 8 Scanners with 5 levels in Profile Dampening and one Enhanced Dampening Module. |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
387
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 07:22:00 -
[1276] - Quote
Solid posts, Shotty! Excellent info on the dampening, range and scan precision.
I have a bit of bad news on the scan precision though: unfortunately the precision enhancer module is a high slot item.
For the STD and PRO Gallente suits to run one of these you need to forgo your shield buffer or damage mods. The ADV Gal suit is a reasonable suit to use for passive scanning since you can equip one complex precision enhancer in the high, one shield extender and two complex range amplifiers in the low to get your 50m passive scan range (assuming L5 on scout skills and L5 on passive range skills.)
As for me, my OCD demanded that I take scan profile, precision and range all to L5. I'm a wild man, just throwing SP around all willy-nilly!
(EDIT: if I had to do it all again, I'd go full Minja with active scanner instead of messing around w/ the slower Gallente trying for some passive scan range that is so damn hard to make useful!) |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
718
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 07:26:00 -
[1277] - Quote
Attn Light-Frame Brothers:
The number to beat is 28 dB, and we can get there by stacking two Enhanced Dampeners.
45.00 dB - Light-Frame
44.10 dB - Profile Dampening Level 1 (-2%)
43.22 dB - Profile Dampening Level 2 (-2%)
42.35 dB - Profile Dampening Level 3 (-2%)
33.88 dB - Equip One Enhanced Dampener (-20%)
27.78 dB - Equip Another Enhanced Dampener (-18%)
I understand that this will take up two of your low-slots -- which is far from optimal -- but this is the quickest means to render yourself immune to the nastiest of the Active Scanners.
Hope this Helps,
- Shotty
TLDR: Light-Frames can beat Meta 8 Scanners with 3 levels in Profile Dampening and two Enhanced Dampening Modules. |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
718
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 07:42:00 -
[1278] - Quote
Matticus Monk wrote:Solid posts, Shotty! Excellent info on the dampening, range and scan precision.
I have a bit of bad news on the scan precision though: unfortunately the precision enhancer module is a high slot item.
For the STD and PRO Gallente suits to run one of these you need to forgo your shield buffer or damage mods. The ADV Gal suit is a reasonable suit to use for passive scanning since you can equip one complex precision enhancer in the high, one shield extender and two complex range amplifiers in the low to get your 50m passive scan range (assuming L5 on scout skills and L5 on passive range skills.)
As for me, my OCD demanded that I take scan profile, precision and range all to L5. I'm a wild man, just throwing SP around all willy-nilly!
(EDIT: if I had to do it all again, I'd go full Minja with active scanner instead of messing around w/ the slower Gallente trying for some passive scan range that is so damn hard to make useful!)
Thanks, Monk! I personally see little point to precision enhancement as scanners do the job so much better. I put a couple points into precision to spot Light Frames. I hope it'll suffice when mediums start running Dampeners next build. Long range scanning -- on the other hand -- is a decent investment. The Devs will likely buff our base scan radius as part of the 1.6 rebalance; the reduction to 10m was a senseless nerf geared only toward encouraging active scanner proliferation. |
Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
37
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:35:00 -
[1279] - Quote
I don't know if people don't use Adv or higher active scanners in matches but I've only been successfuly scan once in my pro gal scout with lvl 3 Damp the funny thing was I was surprised and scared at the same time when it happen I was WTF I got scaned |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
718
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:40:00 -
[1280] - Quote
Nyra Volki wrote:I don't know if people don't use Adv or higher active scanners in matches but I've only been successfuly scan once in my pro gal scout with lvl 3 Damp the funny thing was I was surprised and scared at the same time when it happen I was WTF I got scaned
Exactly. You got hit with a Proto Scanner. Doesn't happen very often now, but they'll be all the rage next week. |
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Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
37
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:49:00 -
[1281] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:I don't know if people don't use Adv or higher active scanners in matches but I've only been successfuly scan once in my pro gal scout with lvl 3 Damp the funny thing was I was surprised and scared at the same time when it happen I was WTF I got scaned Exactly. You got hit with a Proto Scanner. Doesn't happen very often now, but they'll be all the rage next week.
But with your calculations I shouldn't be seen by all but one scanner(that sucks) if I but one Enhance Damp in my suit witch I can do |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
718
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:52:00 -
[1282] - Quote
Nyra Volki wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:I don't know if people don't use Adv or higher active scanners in matches but I've only been successfuly scan once in my pro gal scout with lvl 3 Damp the funny thing was I was surprised and scared at the same time when it happen I was WTF I got scaned Exactly. You got hit with a Proto Scanner. Doesn't happen very often now, but they'll be all the rage next week. But with your calculations I shouldn't be seen by all but one scanner(that sucks) if I but one Enhance Damp in my suit witch I can do
Yep. At Level(3) Dampening and Level(5) Scout, you should be OK with even a Basic Dampener. |
Lucifalic
Baked n Loaded
70
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 11:28:00 -
[1283] - Quote
thanks for all the math Shotty. I am working on getting lvl 5 Gal suit right now, Got enough for the lvl 4 but not investing til i have enough for lvl 5.. Anyone know off hand what the sp is for scout V?
And if you got scanned by the way it was probably me doing it ;) I love my scanner. Good for sneaking up on people gangsta in a hybrid car style (for you weeds fans out there).
How many people have invested in Electronics and Engineering? I know we are pretty short on cpu and pg so i was just wondering what peoples take is on these HUGE sp drains. I have lvl 3 electronics (cpu one i believe) and lvl 2 engineering (pg). I might have them backwards but you get the picture. I was going to do them to 5 before my proto gal but im not sure which to go for first. What do you guys think? |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
388
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 11:58:00 -
[1284] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:
Thanks, Monk!
Fixed my error on the precision enhancer; another reason not to use 'em. I personally see little point to this module. Scanners do the job so much better. I put a couple points into passive precision to spot Light Frames, but I didn't see any need to max it out. Am I missing something here? Did you notice any difference at level 5?
In terms of having L5 precision enhancement v.s. L2 or L3: I haven't noticed much of a difference at all, if any. I seem to spot just as many suits inside my scan range now w/ L5 as when i had lower levels of this skill.
I think the only benefit to skilling this all the way up to L5 is to combine the complex precision enhancer module with L5 skills to give yourself the greatest chance to have a bit of warning when highly skilled/modded scouts are sneaking up on you while you are sniping/hacking/etc..... personally, I'd rather catch 'most' frames and have 160 shields than catch 'almost all' and be rolling around with only 87 shields. By the time I see them on TAC net (if I am even looking at it), most scouts are so fast that I'm dead anyway before I can react...
For hunting, mobile hit and run tactics etc... I agree the active scanner / line of sight is the way to go.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1358
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 12:07:00 -
[1285] - Quote
I've been wondering about how passive scanning shows up in game - does it only show the red dots on the radar or do you see a chevron on the screen too if they're behind a hill or wall or something?
Been reading through all the scanning stuff shotty's posted up lately too and looks like I'm going to have to do some work to make my sniper hunting fits more effective - haven't even started on the precision skill and don't want to use a scanner because then I won't be able to sneak up on those camping buggers. That said, I guess I'll only have trouble picking up scout snipers... |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
388
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 12:10:00 -
[1286] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:
How many people have invested in Electronics and Engineering? I know we are pretty short on cpu and pg so i was just wondering what peoples take is on these HUGE sp drains. I have lvl 3 electronics (cpu one i believe) and lvl 2 engineering (pg). I might have them backwards but you get the picture. I was going to do them to 5 before my proto gal but im not sure which to go for first. What do you guys think?
I have Electronics/Engineering both at L5. They definitely help. On my STD dragonfly deploy suit I can run a standard drop uplink, Exile AR, Toxin SMG, M1 locus grenade, basic shield extender and Enhanced Kin/Cat AND Enhanced stamina mod. (I also have the light and sidearm weapon skills to L3 I think, which reduce CPU requirements)
When I was just starting I had to skip the sidearm and go with basic biotics and basic grenade.... it helps. . This suit only costs like 5k I think so it's not bad for an initial deploy/suicide suit.
As for taking scout from L4 to L5, it requires 1.24 million SP (just for that last level!). The total SP invested at L5 for a scout suit is about 2.5 million.
Personally I'd go with the core electronic/engineering skills first... running proto suits is pretty expensive. I still run standard 95% of the time. The other 4.9% I run ADV and I almost never used my proto suits.... (side benefit is I have a dump-truck full of ISK....) |
Keeriam Miray
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 12:36:00 -
[1287] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Also of potential interest to Gallente Scouts:
Passive Scan Range
Lvl(1) Light-Frame = 10 meters
Lvl(1) GalScout = 11 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout = 15 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(1) Long Range Scanning = 16.5 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(2) Long Range Scanning = 18.15 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(3) Long Range Scanning = 19.97 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(4) Long Range Scanning = 21.96 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(5) Long Range Scanning = 24.26 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +1 Cmp Amplifier = 35.02 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +2 Cmp Amplifier = 50.00 meters
From my observations & tests Long Range Scanning & Scout Skill works with base scan radius of frame, every level of those skills adds exactly 1m. with maxed skills it's 20m for Gallente scout. Then Range Amplifiers works with "'base + skills" - with maxed skills each Cmp Range Amplifier adds 9m (no penalties).
When i run my shotty gk.0 scout with 3 Cmp Amplifiers i'm picking up ppl before second ring of radar (50m), with 4 mods after second ring.
So walues will be:
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(1) Long Range Scanning = 16 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(2) Long Range Scanning = 17 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(3) Long Range Scanning = 18 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(4) Long Range Scanning = 19 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(5) Long Range Scanning = 20 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +1 Cmp Amplifier = 29 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +2 Cmp Amplifier = 38 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +3 Cmp Amplifier = 47 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +4 Cmp Amplifier = 56 meters
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1358
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 12:47:00 -
[1288] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:Also of potential interest to Gallente Scouts:
Passive Scan Range
Lvl(1) Light-Frame = 10 meters
Lvl(1) GalScout = 11 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout = 15 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(1) Long Range Scanning = 16.5 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(2) Long Range Scanning = 18.15 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(3) Long Range Scanning = 19.97 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(4) Long Range Scanning = 21.96 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(5) Long Range Scanning = 24.26 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +1 Cmp Amplifier = 35.02 meters
Lvl(5) GalScout +2 Cmp Amplifier = 50.00 meters From my observations & tests Long Range Scanning & Scout Skill works with base scan radius of frame, every level of those skills adds exactly 1m. with maxed skills it's 20m for Gallente scout. Then Range Amplifiers works with "'base + skills" - with maxed skills each Cmp Range Amplifier adds 9m (no penalties). When i run my shotty gk.0 scout with 3 Cmp Amplifiers i'm picking up ppl before second ring of radar (50m), with 4 mods after second ring. So walues will be: Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(1) Long Range Scanning = 16 meters Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(2) Long Range Scanning = 17 meters Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(3) Long Range Scanning = 18 meters Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(4) Long Range Scanning = 19 meters Lvl(5) GalScout + Lvl(5) Long Range Scanning = 20 meters Lvl(5) GalScout +1 Cmp Amplifier = 29 meters Lvl(5) GalScout +2 Cmp Amplifier = 38 meters Lvl(5) GalScout +3 Cmp Amplifier = 47 meters Lvl(5) GalScout +4 Cmp Amplifier = 56 meters
Void would disagree with you - he mentioned he runs passive scanning range skills/mods and gets around 50m with only 2 range amps. |
Keeriam Miray
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 12:55:00 -
[1289] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:I don't know if people don't use Adv or higher active scanners in matches but I've only been successfuly scan once in my pro gal scout with lvl 3 Damp the funny thing was I was surprised and scared at the same time when it happen I was WTF I got scaned Exactly. You got hit with a Proto Scanner. Doesn't happen very often now, but they'll be all the rage next week.
I wasn't scanned at all :D didn't saw any readings ever from enemy scanners. Guess i'm lucky, but i know for sure there was ppl searching for me with a.scanners. |
Keeriam Miray
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 13:01:00 -
[1290] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Void would disagree with you - he mentioned he runs passive scanning range skills/mods and gets around 50m with only 2 range amps.
I'm running gallente passive scanner scout from CBT, i'm sure i know better than anyone about scouts, scanning range & precision ... i think i'm the only crazy person than runs shotty proto scout with only scan mods - no biotics, no HP mods, etc :)
EDIT: Best result was 22\1, last 12\0. |
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