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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1551	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:30:00 - [6271] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: In my opinion, the shotgun is not a "skill" based weapon (like the sniper rifle or flaylock, which require headshots or body shots to deal the intended damage), and thus, it should not be balanced around it's ability to OHK targets purely on headshots. And it isnt.... UNLESS you're up against a heavy. (Or a brick-tanked logi. grr). The heavy situation seems entirely appropriate to me, and a few others I've seen post here as well. ie: you should not be able to OHK a heavy with a bodyshot. Quote: And to end this post: Please don't assume that I am personally attacking you. This post of yours was reasonably written, with no inflammatory language that I noticed. So, i didnt feel personally attacked at all. Props on reverting to civilized discussion Thank you. So, now that we are though all of that, lets just review what has happened and see where we stand. I want my shotgun to OHK a vast majority of Med Frames at the same tier as the shotgun. Heavies should take more shots, but their damage shouldn't be balanced around headshots. 2-3 shots to the body should be enough to take down a standard heavy. 4-5 if they tank like crazy. Thoughts? Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Larry The L0BSTER Living Like Larry Schwag 0	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:31:00 - [6272] - Quote When you do get around to posting please place my alt on the list Dr. Knifey Cutter-son "They called me crazy when I made a scout.....Who laughing now! oh...Wait they are stll?!"
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1138	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:34:00 - [6273] - Quote mollerz wrote: Llast 326 wrote: mr musturd wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: mollerz wrote: So wow on the Logi changes. Man, that is a wicked nerf to anyone who depends on a logi slayer fit. But I am happy to see Logis becoming more like, well, Logis. I hope we see some scout stuff soon. If there is any I don't want to lose my knife bonus I don't think that will happen, seems double bonus is the order of the day May lose the melee bonus in favour of hacking bonus which would make me happy btw that face looks constipated and should always be followed by this one I'd like to see the skills reflect the description at least. Much lower Db, much higher melee base damage, and I'd liek to keep the skills as they are. I can feel the logis on a respec tho, I might want on when the caldari scout comes to be- I am sure I'd rather go that route than ginja. Well since the Heavies seem to be going in the direction of their description this may happen. I would not mind if the Minja Bonus was useful in both aspectsGÇª NK and Melee. Really a lower db is in order for the Min suits anyway most descriptions have them as stripped downGÇª which makes me think less electronics should = lower signature (db) KRRROOOOOOM
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 668	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:34:00 - [6274] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: mollerz wrote: I can feel the logis on a respec tho, I might want on when the caldari scout comes to be- I am sure I'd rather go that route than ginja. just start saving your sp pennies. you only need, what, like 2M sp? ... for 2.0, seems like
mollerz Minja Scouts 1625	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:35:00 - [6275] - Quote You guys realize that if they don't release any scouting changes we'll be the same but now inadvertently even more screwed as everyone switches over to heavy suits to check them out. Heavies as far as the eye can see. Stay away from the beaches, guys. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1551	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:36:00 - [6276] - Quote Larry The L0BSTER wrote: When you do get around to posting please place my alt on the list Dr. Knifey Cutter-son Oh hey. It's you Comment ca va? Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 669	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:40:00 - [6277] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: So, now that we are though all of that, lets just review what has happened and see where we stand. I want my shotgun to OHK a vast majority of Med Frames at the same tier as the shotgun. ... Thoughts? (skipping the heavy bit, to focus on the "easier" bit)... you already should be able to OHK many medium frames... unless they're layering on the armor/shields. At which point, the DUST type thing to do, is require you to add modules to counter. Which you can do. 2xcomplex damage mods? Using slightly fuzzy math, shouldnt that give you around 600 damage? Which should mostly do the job? Thats the limit for adv scouts... if you want more damage out of it, you need to go to assault with 3 high slots, for 3 damage mods. Wouldnt that do the job, and also mesh with your "same tier" feelings? It's also suit-appropriate. scouts arent supposed to be the high-damage suit; assaults are supposed to be that. (edit, for more fuzziness: I'm guessing damage mods will ensure the "take out heavies within 3 body shots" concern as well) and a cross post at mollerz' heavy-spam-related post: Well, start practicin' up your headshots
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 524	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:42:00 - [6278] - Quote mollerz wrote: You guys realize that if they don't release any scouting changes we'll be the same but now inadvertently even more screwed as everyone switches over to heavy suits to check them out. Heavies as far as the eye can see. Stay away from the beaches, guys. The main problem will be that scanner bonus. Heavies I can deal with a flux and flaylock to the face. A full team knowing my location for the entire match, maybe not so much. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7623	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:44:00 - [6279] - Quote This talk of skill changes and revamps makes me want a respec. I want my minnie proto scout with ishnoks sometime this year. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 669	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:45:00 - [6280] - Quote Spademan wrote: mollerz wrote: You guys realize that if they don't release any scouting changes we'll be the same but now inadvertently even more screwed as everyone switches over to heavy suits to check them out. Heavies as far as the eye can see. Stay away from the beaches, guys. The main problem will be that scanner bonus. Heavies I can deal with a flux and flaylock to the face. A full team knowing my location for the entire match, maybe not so much. Maybe this is CCP's idea of "scout love". The only way to avoid scanners now, will be with complex damps, PLUS the scout suit bonuses. Finaly, we get a true scout-only role!! ... ... erm. .. yay? .. not so much.

Llast 326 An Arkhos 1138	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:46:00 - [6281] - Quote Spademan wrote: mollerz wrote: You guys realize that if they don't release any scouting changes we'll be the same but now inadvertently even more screwed as everyone switches over to heavy suits to check them out. Heavies as far as the eye can see. Stay away from the beaches, guys. The main problem will be that scanner bonus. Heavies I can deal with a flux and flaylock to the face. A full team knowing my location for the entire match, maybe not so much. 5%/level resistance to explosive damageGÇª incoming for SentinelsGÇª (might not be 5% can't remember and subject to change and all that) KRRROOOOOOM
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1551	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:49:00 - [6282] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: So, now that we are though all of that, lets just review what has happened and see where we stand. I want my shotgun to OHK a vast majority of Med Frames at the same tier as the shotgun. ... Thoughts? (skipping the heavy bit, to focus on the "easier" bit)... you already should be able to OHK many medium frames... unless they're layering on the armor/shields. At which point, the DUST type thing to do, is require you to add modules to counter. Which you can do. 2xcomplex damage mods? Using slightly fuzzy math, shouldnt that give you around 600 damage? Which should mostly do the job? Thats the limit for adv scouts... if you want more damage out of it, you need to go to assault with 3 high slots, for 3 damage mods. Wouldnt that do the job, and also mesh with your "same tier" feelings? It's also suit-appropriate. scouts arent supposed to be the high-damage suit; assaults are supposed to be that. and a cross post at mollerz' heavy-spam-related post: Well, start practicin' up your headshots Refer back to appia's post. Right now, the ADV shotgun is good enough to OHK a vast majority of ADV suits. I have no problem taking on advanced suits. Most drop in 1 shot. Some require 2. However, the PRO version is far from the truth. It requires 2 shots to take out other Med Frames of the same tier. This is why I want the damage buff. Besides, I think it's an even worse idea to balance weapons based on the ability to use damage mods. You would be forcing people to give up slots just to use a weapon the way it was meant to be. If it were up to me, Damage mods would go away completely, proficiency as well. How can you balance weapons when some people will always do more damage than others? As for the scout's being a high damage suit. The Min Scout is supposed to be a glass cannon, fitting with it's "assassin" role. Glass cannons should have among the highest DPS in the game, as their goal is to kill a target before it can react or deal significant damage back. An inability to do so destroys the purpose of losing HP and staying power. However, CCP has no freaking clue what they want scouts to do, so that argument can wait until CCP makes up it's dang mind. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 669	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:02:00 - [6283] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: ... I have no problem taking on advanced suits. Most drop in 1 shot. Some require 2. However, the PRO version is far from the truth. It requires 2 shots to take out other Med Frames of the same tier. This is why I want the damage buff. Besides, I think it's an even worse idea to balance weapons based on the ability to use damage mods. You would be forcing people to give up slots just to use a weapon the way it was meant to be. ... on "forcing people"... To do otherwise, would be unfair to the other side. To have them invest in shield+armor modules, and have you still take them out with the same as before, weapon, would be unfair to them. The fair thing is "measure, countermeasure". They add defensive modules modules, which in turn require you to add specific modules of your own to counter them if you want the same level of weapon performance. That's balance.
J0LLY R0G3R Tickle My Null-Sac 318	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:03:00 - [6284] - Quote There is no way I'm trying to line up 3 headshots on any suit. 3 body shots sure 4 if they are super brick tanked to hel... I'm willing to say I don't have the skill to grab 3 headshot or no one has the lack of skill required to let me grab 3 lol. I go for center mass, only time I'm grabbing head shots is when I jump down on someone. XD Indeed, chase me friend XD
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1552	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:07:00 - [6285] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: ... I have no problem taking on advanced suits. Most drop in 1 shot. Some require 2. However, the PRO version is far from the truth. It requires 2 shots to take out other Med Frames of the same tier. This is why I want the damage buff. Besides, I think it's an even worse idea to balance weapons based on the ability to use damage mods. You would be forcing people to give up slots just to use a weapon the way it was meant to be. ... on "forcing people"... To do otherwise, would be unfair to the other side. To have them invest in shield+armor modules, and have you still take them out with the same as before, weapon, would be unfair to them. The fair thing is "measure, countermeasure". They add defensive modules modules, which in turn require you to add specific modules of your own to counter them if you want the same level of weapon performance. That's balance. Reserved. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 524	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:09:00 - [6286] - Quote So, with all this rejigging and inclusion of heavy and medium suits, has there been any mention of lights? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Oswald Rehnquist 997	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:23:00 - [6287] - Quote I actually consider scouts coming last a good thing, only because the majority of the short term peeps chasing FOTM will jump on the other suits and burn their sp before the scout comes out, not only that but being last means you get to see the whole equation before making your decision, so for those who have saved their sp, and especially for scouts, this will be nice. Until then we suffer, but it should pay off with the knowledge and the lessened FOTM chasing burden. Below 28 dB
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1138	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:28:00 - [6288] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: ... I have no problem taking on advanced suits. Most drop in 1 shot. Some require 2. However, the PRO version is far from the truth. It requires 2 shots to take out other Med Frames of the same tier. This is why I want the damage buff. Besides, I think it's an even worse idea to balance weapons based on the ability to use damage mods. You would be forcing people to give up slots just to use a weapon the way it was meant to be. ... on "forcing people"... To do otherwise, would be unfair to the other side. To have them invest in shield+armor modules, and have you still take them out with the same as before, weapon, would be unfair to them. The fair thing is "measure, countermeasure". They add defensive modules modules, which in turn require you to add specific modules of your own to counter them if you want the same level of weapon performance. That's balance. That's only bidirectional balance, what needs to be considered is multidimensional balance. Part of the reason the damage vs eHP balance strategy does not work is the failure to account for the other aspects that effect the situation. Maneuverability, tactical awareness, range,dps, effective dps, and probably many other things that are not springing to mind right now, come into play in balancing multi-dimensionally. Most analysis I have seen overlook these things in favour of linear balance strategies that work from just two aspects. KRRROOOOOOM
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1139	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:29:00 - [6289] - Quote Spademan wrote: So, with all this rejigging and inclusion of heavy and medium suits, has there been any mention of lights? lights are not on CCP's Tacnet at this time KRRROOOOOOM
pseudosnipre 477	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:31:00 - [6290] - Quote mollerz wrote: You guys realize that if they don't release any scouting changes we'll be the same but now inadvertently even more screwed as everyone switches over to heavy suits to check them out. Heavies as far as the eye can see. Stay away from the beaches, guys. PLC. REs. That is all. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.

Oswald Rehnquist 998	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:33:00 - [6291] - Quote If I had to take a guess of what CCP will do for scouts it would be this (not exactly what I agree with but what I predict), also seeing the two tiered bonuses for heavies it might happen to scouts. Scout: % reduction to cloaks Gal: Profile Signature Reduction / less cloak shimmer (the gal logi got the active scanner) Cal: Precision reduction / Radius increase Min: Hacking knifing bonus Am: Stamina bonus? (its in line with CCP's disregard for anything Amarr, Amarr Assault-> ) Below 28 dB
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 525	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:41:00 - [6292] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Spademan wrote: So, with all this rejigging and inclusion of heavy and medium suits, has there been any mention of lights? lights are not on CCP's Tacnet at this time Maybe we should make ourselves more visible. Who loaded this thread with dampeners anyway? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1139	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:42:00 - [6293] - Quote Spademan wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Spademan wrote: So, with all this rejigging and inclusion of heavy and medium suits, has there been any mention of lights? lights are not on CCP's Tacnet at this time Maybe we should make ourselves more visible. Who loaded this thread with dampeners anyway? >has been known to layer tinfoil on the thread KRRROOOOOOM
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1554	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:48:00 - [6294] - Quote Spademan wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Spademan wrote: So, with all this rejigging and inclusion of heavy and medium suits, has there been any mention of lights? lights are not on CCP's Tacnet at this time Maybe we should make ourselves more visible. Who loaded this thread with dampeners anyway? Well, our Dampen Generator MK. 2 runs on the tears of med frames, and is behind the bar counter. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'll talk to Shotty to see if we can turn it off. I'm sure the manual is around here somewhere..... Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1139	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:53:00 - [6295] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Spademan wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Spademan wrote: So, with all this rejigging and inclusion of heavy and medium suits, has there been any mention of lights? lights are not on CCP's Tacnet at this time Maybe we should make ourselves more visible. Who loaded this thread with dampeners anyway? Well, our Dampen Generator MK. 2 runs on the tears of med frames, and is behind the bar counter. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'll talk to Shotty to see if we can turn it off. I'm sure the manual is around here somewhere..... ManualGÇª drops RE There is your manual KRRROOOOOOM
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1555	Posted - 2014.01.07 23:57:00 - [6296] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Spademan wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Spademan wrote: So, with all this rejigging and inclusion of heavy and medium suits, has there been any mention of lights? lights are not on CCP's Tacnet at this time Maybe we should make ourselves more visible. Who loaded this thread with dampeners anyway? Well, our Dampen Generator MK. 2 runs on the tears of med frames, and is behind the bar counter. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'll talk to Shotty to see if we can turn it off. I'm sure the manual is around here somewhere..... ManualGÇª drops RE There is your manual Picks up RE and makes our signature drink with it, the Med Frame Surprise Promptly serves it to Patrick, who was just passing through the bar Snickers inwardly Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 526	Posted - 2014.01.08 00:01:00 - [6297] - Quote So, where are ya'll dastardly rogues from? I hail from Ireland myself. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 3754	Posted - 2014.01.08 00:04:00 - [6298] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Picks up RE and makes our signature drink with it, the Med Frame Surprise Promptly serves it to Patrick, who was just passing through the bar Snickers inwardly wut Logi ak.0 Best Logi :D
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1557	Posted - 2014.01.08 00:06:00 - [6299] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Picks up RE and makes our signature drink with it, the Med Frame Surprise Promptly serves it to Patrick, who was just passing through the bar Snickers inwardly wut Drink it, it has some EXPLOSIVE flavor to it. I MADE THIS FOR YOU!!!! Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1140	Posted - 2014.01.08 00:07:00 - [6300] - Quote Spademan wrote: So, where are ya'll dastardly rogues from? I hail from Ireland myself. I live north of crazy and south of sanity Canada *Irish/Sioux ancestry KRRROOOOOOM



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