That means that assaults will be the best option in the largest number of circumstances, and therefore will perform the best on average and attract the largest number of players. This means scouts are free to be good at what they do, their "particular set of skills", whilst still being less common on the battlefield.

I agree with this. So long as stealth was necessary to achieve the kills, there is no reason a scout can't get a high kill count.

They will not generally get as high as assaults though by design. That is because stealth kills are less efficient. It is much quicker to point a gun at someone 60m away and blast them, or to run directly at the enemy with a cooked grenade, than it is to stealth through a flanking manoeuvre and perform hit and run. This is particularly true when farming noobs like in Moody's 60 kills video.

The trade-off for that efficiency is a scout's greater mobility and stealth, which brings it's own varied strategic value. Though we must not forget that assaults also bring a lot to the table that scouts don't, without involving killing. The ability to absorb the enemy's attention, tank damage, create a numbers advantage by grouping up, mutual cover and support. These are all things that assaults bring to the table to balance a scout's disruption and ganking ability.

When I decide between assault or scout in a given situation, it is not the question of whether I want to kill the enemy that informs that decision. It is about whether I want to fight with solidarity, or misdirection.

The system will really be working correctly if the combined kills of a scout and an assault are greater than that of two scouts or two assaults.

I like to think of scouts as a specialised suits, whereas assaults are more generalist. That means that assaults will be the best option in the largest number of circumstances, and therefore will perform the best on average and attract the largest number of players. This means scouts are free to be good at what they do, their "particular set of skills", whilst still being less common on the battlefield.

So are we considering the triple damped Gal scout?

It's not a worthless suit, I've got one made up in my armoury. BUT, it is hardmode, there's no two ways about it.

I'm quite a fan of scouts being difficult to use, to a point. As a player who has been using scouts since beta, plays near the top levels of competitive Dust, and is specifically asked to run scout often because of my abilities, despite being skilled into and practiced with, a number of other roles, I can say that it is very difficult to use a triple damped Gal scout, even if it can still perform some critical roles well, the game always comes to combat, and combat with the suit is very difficult.

The PC meta has changed a lot over time. It is more balanced than ever, but the city sockets are ruled by speed tanked shotgun assaults, and the outside points are ruled by coordinated groups of rifle assaults. Some maps are ruled by high ground commandos and forge guns. Logis are always useful for their equipment, but the rep+sentinel is suffering a serious squeeze from the biotic shotgun assaults.

This is not pre-1.8, where scouts were as rare as people's understanding of how to fight them. People know how to fight scouts, and are prepared.

On outside points, this means that angles are covered, flanks and rears are watched, cloak shimmers are spotted, players cover each other.

In built up areas the assaults are fast. I can no stress this enough. The speed and regen advantages of scouts are minute compared to what they were, or non-existent. These assaults can not be caught, or escaped from. They will hunt you down. The age old adage that you shouldn't chase a scout no longer really applies. A spotted scout must run and hide and hope the enemy gives up looking.

Myos give suits, particularly mediums, excellent defence from alpha weapons. This is a major factor.
In the city my logi will scan any scout around a corner, including the 3x damp Gallente. It will also tank a shotgun round and one-shot the scout with it's shotgun. It is also negligibly slower than the scout and is equipped with a myo providing excellent defence from alpha strikes. And that's just a logi.
On outside points my assault can jump onto creates with 360deg view of the surrounding area, outside of knife reach, difficult to hit with a shotgun.

A single damped Gal scout is difficult. A triple damped Gal scout is very situational.

I've never said that you shouldn't be dropping 20+ kills, just that its not needed to do your job. I drop 20+ myself from time to time, and I don't feel that the scout is under performing at all. In some scenarios, scouts can be far more efficient at slaying than assaults. Typically in environments with lots of cover and objectives that are fairly close to each other. Cities are scout havens for a reason.

Scouts are definitely not more efficient than assaults at slaying in a city. This was the case for a long time, but not anymore.

Strategic city control and assistance with killing? Yes, good and complimentary to the main force.

Slaying efficiency in a city socket? No, get an assault.

Scouts can slay in the city, but they are definitely not as good at it as assaults. Not that i'm complaining about this. As we have been discussing, slaying efficiency doesn't equal usefulness. And scouts certainly can kill in a city.

Scouts are definitely not more efficient than assaults at slaying in a city. This was the case for a long time, but not anymore.

Strategic city control and assistance with killing? Yes, good and complimentary to the main force.

Slaying efficiency in a city socket? No, get an assault.

Scouts can slay in the city, but they are definitely not as good at it as assaults. Not that i'm complaining about this. As we have been discussing, slaying efficiency doesn't equal usefulness. And scouts certainly can kill in a city.

As I mentioned earlier, 1x damp and 2x damp are all you need for 90% of scenarios.

But that last 10%, the 3x damp gal scout makes Gal Logi's RAGE.

They get so frustrated when their 4x Focused Scanner suit is useless on you. They keep thinking that they just haven't hit you yet. While they spam scans, you shotgun them in the back

Oh, and you can't scan 3x damped gal Scouts.

With skills on a Gal Logi, the Proto Focused active scan only gets 15 dB. 3x Damps gets you 14 dB.

It really depends on how much scan they bring. If they're smart, they will make you run 2x damps which really hampers your defensive and offensive capabilities.

If they don't make you damp, you can really abuse your speed and regen.

But yes, against MOST teams, Assaults are the way for slaying.

Against guys in pubs who don't scan? I'd take the scout any day. That 1x Damp Gal Scout fit I linked is nasty in those scenarios.

It really depends on how much scan they bring. If they're smart, they will make you run 2x damps which really hampers your defensive and offensive capabilities.

If they don't make you damp, you can really abuse your speed and regen.

But yes, against MOST teams, Assaults are the way for slaying.

Against guys in pubs who don't scan? I'd take the scout any day. That 1x Damp Gal Scout fit I linked is nasty in those scenarios.

What Pubs have you played in where they don't scan?
If they don't start out scanning they sure as hell pull them out after you Knife a few of em.

Will be back in a couple hours to read all this, but I'm glad something interesting's finally going on in here again!

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

I don't know what made me think of this, but I had an idea.

We had more than a few talks about how scout uplinks should be harder to scan down right? I've been playing EVE and been playing with Covert Ops ships now for a while.

Uplinks are basically Cynos. They're easy to detect and lets people jump from one place to another (Spawn to ground).

So shouldn't scouts have access to covert ops uplinks? Covert op cynos in EVE are like uplinks, except they don't show up on the overview, but only certain ships can warp to them. Since limiting who can spawn on them in Dust is stupid, I came up with this idea.

They would be a new item with different stats. Huge CPU/PG to fit. Scale CPU/PG and skill so that Scout I lets you easily fit Basic Covert Ops uplinks, III lets you fit adv easily and V lets you fit proto easily (And by Easy, I mean comparable to normal uplinks).

They would be very hard to scan. I'm talking sub 20 range for the basic, with proto being as low as 13 (Math needed, I want passive scout scans to pick it up at close range). They also don't have the stupid sound or beam of light. Just a hunk of metal on the ground.

It would have high spawn times and low spawn counts. To counter, the scout carries quite a few of them. They're made so that a scout can wander a city undetected, and drop spawns that won't broadcast where he's at or going. Since Gal Logi's won't be able to sweep the links with their scans, strong scanning scouts would be needed to counter their links. A Cal Scout would be well suited to sweeping these links (And probably be able to find the scout as well).

What do you think?

Can we even make new assets in this game?

I mean, its already over.

Not much left to say.

I like it, sounds like a fun addition.

I've often wondered how the game would be if uplinks were drastically changed. Imagine if there were two types of uplink.

One was carried and allowed players to spawn on you. If you die the link would be lost.

The other type was deployable, but only allowed you to spawn on your own link, and only once. Perhaps this could be your covert ops version - scout only.

You would not be allowed to carry both.

The game would be very different. No more uplink spam to control areas. Vehicle transport would be more important. As would movement across ground, taking the focus away from CQC environments.

edit: I think your idea is probably better.

Not every time.

Sometimes its 25m, 20m, 10m, 5m, .... 5m, 10m, 25m.

There's always legion, I guess...

That's even worse lol

Why are you scrubs even talking about Dust? Game's dead.

DUST is still here, as it seems, even if I am inactive in gameplay.

Ghost, sit down, we need to have a talk.

You probably have not heard but...

I always feel bad when it's 25m, 15m, 10m, 1mGǪ 1mGǪ 1mGǪ needle disappears and blue name in the killfeed
I know you tried little random LogiGǪ I know you tried

The prophet has spoken.

**** off.


DUST is still here, as it seems, even if I am inactive in gameplay.

*gets off hammock*


*sets up a beanbag under hammock*

*be the best chilled penguin on a beanbag underneath monks hammock*

Wenk. *wags flippers*

Well.

What happened to VAHZZ? Banned again?