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Kaeru Nayiri wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

[...]
On the Shotgun. Shotgun Operation has always tightened spread; theoretically, as operation level increases, the likelihood of landing more pellets on target per blast also increases. In Chromosome and in early Uprising, shotgun proficiency increased RoF by 3% per level; we were never told why this was changed. As for Range, all weapons had a sharpshooter skill in Chromosome which increased a weapon's effective range (optimal also?). As I recal, shotguns could deal significant damage out to 20m or so ... it was a 'bit much, and it'd be pretty OP these days.

To answer your question, I think it'd be neat to have a traditional shotgun with a very wide spread. Wouldn't mind if the Breach were overhauled to serve this purpose.

Thanks for the clarification ! I really do appreciate it.

You use the shotgun quite a bit and I value your opinion on the matter tremendously. Do you think that the current shotgun skill really helps you land more shots in the current state of the game ? (hit detection issues and all)

Is it possible that actually leveling up the skill hinders more than it helps by eliminating too much spread?

Please correct me. I'm also just a middle man in this, as I am trying my best to convey my friend's thoughts as he is not an active forum poster.

I like the idea of retooling the breach, but perhaps even the breach has it's place? Is a new variant too much?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:36:00 - [36721] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: FW Pay Update Queued solo. We gave 'em hell and lost by two ticks. Game seems to have frozen on Defeat screen (?). Hoping to find ~500k Isk in my wallet ............ game finally returned me to MQ. Unable to access Last Battle (?), but I'd checked the boards close to the end, and I was in 2nd place with 1,400 - 1,500WP. Payment: 167,784 Isk (?). I tried to test to and got 78k. Same issue with being frozen on end of battle screen and no last battle results. It seemed i got slightly more than the 20% but might have been due to a BPO LAV. Overlord of Broman
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:37:00 - [36722] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Spademan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: FW Pay Update Queued solo. We gave 'em hell and lost by two ticks. Game seems to have frozen on Defeat screen (?). Hoping to find ~500k Isk in my wallet ............ game finally returned me to MQ. Unable to access Last Battle (?), but I'd checked the boards close to the end, and I was in 2nd place with 1,400 - 1,500WP. Payment: 167,784 Isk (?). Payment is 20% of what you used if you lose. Would it be fair to say you lost 838'920 isk in assets? ( I'm like 72.38% sure I got the maths right ) Probably lost 700k that match? But I think gear destruction on each side is pooled. So our side got 20% of their side's losses and their side got 40% of our side's losses. Didn't do the math in advance, so I wasn't sure what to expect; the other guys fielded an HAV or two and a few were running proto. Expected their losses to be pretty high. J0LLY R0G3R wrote: Almost no way ur getting 500k for a lose. Yep. Silly me. Expectations adjusted. I was wondering the same thing. I think it might not be pooled. Will test tonight. Overlord of Broman
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:39:00 - [36723] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Did you test the supposed BPO exploit? Nope! Please describe. FYI: Keeriam pointed out that the MinScout base melee was reduced. Supposedly if you ran all BPO's, given that they are counted as standard ISK varients for the new accounting purposes, you could theoretically just demolish yourself repeatedly in BPOs and make isk and LP. Think of it as a more profitable version of AFK. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203721&find=unread Seems like my understanding is off. Are mercs being reimbursed for their own, individual losses? Individual losses was my understanding, but either way, if you could go into FW, and use BPOs and not lose anything, you would make lots of ISK. It would be even worse if it was based off of collective losses because then you would get a disproportionate amount of ISK back (greater than standard level BPO based ISK), while not contributing anything meaningful. I just had a funny idea. If you're winning a FW you should have a suit with all the **** you want to get rid of and then go die in it. You'll get 40% which is much better then the value if you sold it! Overlord of Broman
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:43:00 - [36724] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Did you test the supposed BPO exploit? Nope! Please describe. FYI: Keeriam pointed out that the MinScout base melee was reduced. Supposedly if you ran all BPO's, given that they are counted as standard ISK varients for the new accounting purposes, you could theoretically just demolish yourself repeatedly in BPOs and make isk and LP. Think of it as a more profitable version of AFK. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203721&find=unread Seems like my understanding is off. Are mercs being reimbursed for their own, individual losses? Yes, making you personally, possibly, want to throw some extra effort into winning. Maybe i'll test just to verify :) I'm also curious on the cost of my BPO LAV. Overlord of Broman
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:44:00 - [36725] - Quote Yay, QPLAK Overlord of Broman
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:26:00 - [36726] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: I was wondering the same thing. I think it might not be pooled. Will test tonight. Will test further as well. If losses are being pooled, they are possibly being pooled in error. Sounds as though losses are supposed to be tallied on an individual basis: CCP Rattati wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Are mercs being reimbursed for their own, individual losses? Yes, making you personally, possibly, want to throw some extra effort into winning. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 3	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:33:00 - [36727] - Quote annnnnd Bam got Banned X( The ButtPirates Now Accepting Applications. XD TheYoutube
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:40:00 - [36728] - Quote J0LLY R0G3R wrote: annnnnd Bam got Banned X( lol, he set you up! Overlord of Broman
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:45:00 - [36729] - Quote J0LLY R0G3R wrote: annnnnd Bam got Bammed X( edit: hows the matches in FW been? back and forth or one sided like in the past? Last night it was not fun to be Min. Lots of people qsyncing on the other side. Overlord of Broman
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:46:00 - [36730] - Quote J0LLY R0G3R wrote: annnnnd Bam got Bammed X( edit: hows the matches in FW been? back and forth or one sided like in the past? Last night it was not fun being in MFW. Lots of qsyncs on the other side. Edit: Double post... stupid forums not showing my first response. Overlord of Broman

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:49:00 - [36731] - Quote I had a further thought on the new FW ISK payout. I have a number (200) of proto gal scout suits (AUR/LP variant, not sure which) that I got from various events i think. I think it's time to suit them up and I'm assuming they will be converted to corresponding ISK value of a proto suit so that I should maybe break even depending on my fit. Overlord of Broman
james rains OUTCAST MERCS General Tso's Alliance 33	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:54:00 - [36732] - Quote J0LLY R0G3R wrote: annnnnd Bam got Bammed X( edit: hows the matches in FW been? back and forth or one sided like in the past? Lol how did he get bammed? 21+ million SP. Only good assault ck.0 out there.
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 3	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:24:00 - [36733] - Quote james rains wrote: J0LLY R0G3R wrote: annnnnd Bam got Bammed X( edit: hows the matches in FW been? back and forth or one sided like in the past? Lol how did he get bammed? One can not talk about bammings I don't think. The ButtPirates Now Accepting Applications. XD TheYoutube
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:30:00 - [36734] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: What do you guys think about this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2793365#post2793365 _______________________ And also, after talking with my friend Clone, who has just begun using the gal scout and the shotgun, it became apparent to me that if you wanted the shotgun for it's "spread" then you were sol. Not only does it fire with pinpoint accuracy a la bolt pistol, it has no aim assist AND the skill actually TIGHTENS the spread. It seems really counterproductive and he's kind of disappointed with it. What would you guys think about a new variation of the shotgun that had more spread ? (other side of the coin to the breach) I know most shotgunners appreciate the shotgun skill for the extra lethal range it can offer, but do any of you ever wish it simply added optimal range instead?? Thanks in advance for the replys/discussion and looking at this seriously ! Know what cannot be known.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:34:00 - [36735] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: What do you guys think about this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2793365#post2793365 _______________________ And also, after talking with my friend Clone, who has just begun using the gal scout and the shotgun, it became apparent to me that if you wanted the shotgun for it's "spread" then you were sol. Not only does it fire with pinpoint accuracy a la bolt pistol, it has no aim assist AND the skill actually TIGHTENS the spread. It seems really counterproductive and he's kind of disappointed with it. What would you guys think about a new variation of the shotgun that had more spread ? (other side of the coin to the breach) I know most shotgunners appreciate the shotgun skill for the extra lethal range it can offer, but do any of you ever wish it simply added optimal range instead?? Thanks in advance for the replys/discussion and looking at this seriously ! The post you linked to describes "slowdown on hit" as it relates to the HMG ... a phenomena we used to call "stunlock". Turns out, stunlock wasn't a phenomena at all. Rattati found a database field which controlled this effect; it was reportedly zeroed out across all weapons, including the HMG. On the Shotgun. Shotgun Operation has always tightened spread; theoretically, as operation level increases, the likelihood of landing more pellets on target per blast also increases. In Chromosome and in early Uprising, shotgun proficiency increased RoF by 3% per level; we were never told why this was changed. As for Range, all weapons had a sharpshooter skill in Chromosome which increased a weapon's effective range (optimal also?). As I recal, shotguns could deal significant damage out to 20m or so ... it was a 'bit much, and it'd be pretty OP these days. To answer your question, I think it'd be neat to have a traditional shotgun with a very wide spread. Wouldn't mind if the Breach were overhauled to serve this purpose. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Spademan 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:39:00 - [36736] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: What do you guys think about this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2793365#post2793365 _______________________ And also, after talking with my friend Clone, who has just begun using the gal scout and the shotgun, it became apparent to me that if you wanted the shotgun for it's "spread" then you were sol. Not only does it fire with pinpoint accuracy a la bolt pistol, it has no aim assist AND the skill actually TIGHTENS the spread. It seems really counterproductive and he's kind of disappointed with it. What would you guys think about a new variation of the shotgun that had more spread ? (other side of the coin to the breach) I know most shotgunners appreciate the shotgun skill for the extra lethal range it can offer, but do any of you ever wish it simply added optimal range instead?? Thanks in advance for the replys/discussion and looking at this seriously ! The post you linked to describes "slowdown on hit" as it relates to the HMG ... a phenomena we used to call "stunlock". Turns out, stunlock wasn't a phenomena at all. Rattati found a database field which controlled this effect; it was reportedly zeroed out across all weapons, including the HMG. I think you misunderstand. The post is referring to the reduction in speed the user receives when firing and suggests other weapons receive similar effects. What're you looking at me like that for? I'll shank you I will.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:46:00 - [36737] - Quote Spademan is correct, What if firing a weapon reduced your speed slightly, as firing the HMG does. You could potentially still breakdance, but not while firing your gun. Clone's philosiphy here is "Fight or Flight" as opposed to "Fight while Flying" which we have now. I like the idea, but I don't even use "real" weapons so I'm probably the last person to endorse such a thing. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:50:00 - [36738] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: [...] On the Shotgun. Shotgun Operation has always tightened spread; theoretically, as operation level increases, the likelihood of landing more pellets on target per blast also increases. In Chromosome and in early Uprising, shotgun proficiency increased RoF by 3% per level; we were never told why this was changed. As for Range, all weapons had a sharpshooter skill in Chromosome which increased a weapon's effective range (optimal also?). As I recal, shotguns could deal significant damage out to 20m or so ... it was a 'bit much, and it'd be pretty OP these days. To answer your question, I think it'd be neat to have a traditional shotgun with a very wide spread. Wouldn't mind if the Breach were overhauled to serve this purpose. Thanks for the clarification ! I really do appreciate it. You use the shotgun quite a bit and I value your opinion on the matter tremendously. Do you think that the current shotgun skill really helps you land more shots in the current state of the game ? (hit detection issues and all) Is it possible that actually leveling up the skill hinders more than it helps by eliminating too much spread? Please correct me. I'm also just a middle man in this, as I am trying my best to convey my friend's thoughts as he is not an active forum poster. I like the idea of retooling the breach, but perhaps even the breach has it's place? Is a new variant too much? Know what cannot be known.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 21:08:00 - [36739] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: [...] On the Shotgun. Shotgun Operation has always tightened spread; theoretically, as operation level increases, the likelihood of landing more pellets on target per blast also increases. In Chromosome and in early Uprising, shotgun proficiency increased RoF by 3% per level; we were never told why this was changed. As for Range, all weapons had a sharpshooter skill in Chromosome which increased a weapon's effective range (optimal also?). As I recal, shotguns could deal significant damage out to 20m or so ... it was a 'bit much, and it'd be pretty OP these days. To answer your question, I think it'd be neat to have a traditional shotgun with a very wide spread. Wouldn't mind if the Breach were overhauled to serve this purpose. Thanks for the clarification ! I really do appreciate it. You use the shotgun quite a bit and I value your opinion on the matter tremendously. Do you think that the current shotgun skill really helps you land more shots in the current state of the game ? (hit detection issues and all) Is it possible that actually leveling up the skill hinders more than it helps by eliminating too much spread? Please correct me. I'm also just a middle man in this, as I am trying my best to convey my friend's thoughts as he is not an active forum poster. I like the idea of retooling the breach, but perhaps even the breach has it's place? Is a new variant too much? Assuming stable framerate, I find vanilla shotgun spread to be in a pretty good place, and the breach shotgun spread to be somewhat too tight to land shots reliably. Though for PC, I personally think it'd be nice to have a wider spread shotgun as CQC framerates tend to get clunky. Alternatively, we could fix PC lag :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Spademan 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 21:10:00 - [36740] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Assuming stable framerate, I find vanilla shotgun spread to be in a pretty good place, and the breach shotgun spread to be somewhat too tight to land shots reliably. Though for PC, I personally think it'd be nice to have a wider spread shotgun as CQC framerates tend to get clunky. Alternatively, we could fix PC lag :-) Random thought: Breach Shotgun gets duckbill spread. What're you looking at me like that for? I'll shank you I will.

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 21:13:00 - [36741] - Quote Let's say the vanilla shotgun has a nice spread as-is, and you have level 1 Shotgun Operation. Is it fair to modify a potentially beneficial aspect (spread) of the weapon by leveling up the skill for it? The reason why I suggested optimal range increase (let's say 3% more optimal per level, for argument's sake) is because I know some scouts like the Shotgun Operation. It allows them to have a longer lethal reach. At a certain distance, the spread gets too wide to kill and I know having level 5 can help with that. I'm proposing an increase in optimal per level as an alternative so as to not take away anything while also not modifying the spread of the weapon. Spademan wrote: Random thought: Breach Shotgun gets duckbill spread. That sounds really cool ! EDIT: A horizontal spread like that would be wicked in CQC against multiple targets, landing more pellets at headshot level.. /drool Know what cannot be known.
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven 4	Posted - 2015.05.27 21:36:00 - [36742] - Quote Logged onto DUST today feeling about a 9/10. I have an overwhelming urge to stab some fools! Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
Haerr The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 21:41:00 - [36743] - Quote I made a thing to look at various dropsuit stats and compare them to each other and between races. Google docs LINK I think it is safe to say that part of the Minmatars overwhelming mobility comes from their far superior Stamina Regen. Speaking of which and about the Logis and Commandos, perhaps it is time to take a look at: Stamina Stamina Regen Shield Recharge Rate Shield Recharge Delay Shield Depleted Recharge Delay As well as the racial perks and sacrifices of various stats, what do you guys think?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 21:48:00 - [36744] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Let's say the vanilla shotgun has a nice spread as-is, and you have level 1 Shotgun Operation. Is it fair to modify a potentially beneficial aspect (spread) of the weapon by leveling up the skill for it? The reason why I suggested optimal range increase (let's say 3% more optimal per level, for argument's sake) is because I know some scouts like the Shotgun Operation. It allows them to have a longer lethal reach. At a certain distance, the spread gets too wide to kill and I know having level 5 can help with that. I'm proposing an increase in optimal per level as an alternative so as to not take away anything while also not modifying the spread of the weapon. Spademan wrote: Random thought: Breach Shotgun gets duckbill spread. That sounds really cool ! EDIT: A horizontal spread like that would be wicked in CQC against multiple targets, landing more pellets at headshot level.. /drool Shotgun Operation increases alpha potential. It does not increase reach...directly. A skill which widened spread would decrease alpha potential. Also, increasing shotgun range could potentially pose balance issues ... high damage is presently justified by risk/reward. An increase on range would likely necessitate a decrease in damage. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Nachos Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 202	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:00:00 - [36745] - Quote finally uploaded another video.... Using an assault rifle on an an amarr assault. Chose a single song rather than multiple 'hectic' songs xavier zor's alt xavier zor
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 3	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:01:00 - [36746] - Quote and I made it a year XD 1year 2 days in the pirates XD awwwyeah And the ButtPirates 2014-05-25 07:46 - Now (1y 2d) Villore Sec Ops 2014-05-25 07:41 - 2014-05-25 07:46 (0y 0d) Legion Alpha Tester 2014-05-02 23:50 - 2014-05-25 07:41 (0y 23d) Sinq Laison Gendarmes 2014-05-02 23:26 - 2014-05-02 23:50 (0y 0d) Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2014-03-25 02:37 - 2014-05-02 23:26 (0y 38d) Imperfects 2014-03-18 04:00 - 2014-03-25 02:37 (0y 7d) Mannar Focused Warfare 2014-03-18 02:42 - 2014-03-18 04:00 (0y 0d) 0uter.Heaven 2014-02-04 04:02 - 2014-03-18 02:42 (0y 42d) Edimmu Warfighters 2014-02-04 03:50 - 2014-02-04 04:02 (0y 0d) Tickle My Null-Sac 2013-12-12 20:38 - 2014-02-04 03:50 (0y 54d) Kang Lo Directorate 2013-12-11 22:36 - 2013-12-12 20:38 (0y 1d) PIRATE'S LIFE 2013-12-11 21:04 - 2013-12-11 22:36 (0y 0d) Sinq Laison Gendarmes 2013-12-10 23:40 - 2013-12-11 21:04 (0y 1d) Unkn0wn Killers 2013-09-26 20:18 - 2013-12-10 23:40 (0y 75d) A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2013-07-19 01:34 - 2013-09-26 20:18 (0y 69d) Algintal Core 2013-07-13 00:11 - 2013-07-19 01:34 (0y 6d) Shadow Company HQ 2013-01-11 00:36 - 2013-07-13 00:11 (0y 183d) Villore Sec Ops 2013-01-10 07:56 - 2013-01-11 00:36 (0y 1d) The ButtPirates Now Accepting Applications. XD TheYoutube
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:07:00 - [36747] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Shotgun Operation increases alpha potential. It does not increase reach...directly. A skill which widened spread would decrease alpha potential. Also, increasing shotgun range could potentially pose balance and risk/reward issues ... high damage is presently justified by extremely limited range (5m optimal). An increase on range would likely necessitate a decrease in damage. In my head, at least :-) Absolutely agree that an increase in range should go with decrease in power, and that is absolutely not what we want. That aside, do you find that the operation skill truly increases alpha? From what I can tell (with me -extreme- lack of experience), it's either all pellets hit or they all miss, regardless of level. With the potential of more missing as the skill levels up. If there are instances where only some pellets find their mark, having the skill maxed out would only result in none hitting at all. Am I thinking about this the wrong way?? Know what cannot be known.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:15:00 - [36748] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: What do you guys think about this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2793365#post2793365 Way too drastic a change, especially this late in development. The whole game is balanced around not having this mechanic and if it's implemented then you have to go back and rebalance everything all over again. Since it essentially serves no purpose (other than to combat wiggle, which can be dealt with through simpler means) I think it's out of the question Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:17:00 - [36749] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: This is very exciting! We should start thinking in terms of contingency, just in case. Ideally, Assault usage rates will remain higher than all else. If these changes were to result in a slayer migration, how might we head it off? Please share your ideas. o7 Oh geez, maybe I'm biased but I can't think of much that we can still nerf. Profile can't be changed, speed can't be changed, cloak sucks. I really can't imagine a migration coming to scouts again. If anything it'll be slayer logis again like some people in the announcement thread predicted. If I had to come up with something, it would probably be strafe penalties on armor plates or something along those lines. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:31:00 - [36750] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: What do you guys think about this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2793365#post2793365 Way too drastic a change, especially this late in development. The whole game is balanced around not having this mechanic and if it's implemented then you have to go back and rebalance everything all over again. Since it essentially serves no purpose (other than to combat wiggle, which can be dealt with through simpler means) I think it's out of the question It had to be said, thanks for vocalizing it ! I understand what you are saying well enough to realize this is a drastic measure. Going off on a tangent: what would everyone's ideal fix for the breakdance be ?? (barring simply "fix hit detection") Know what cannot be known.



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