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Spademan wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Spademan wrote:

noob cavman wrote:

Spademan wrote:

So player trading is restricted to loyalty rank 4 and above.

A huge slap in the face for no reason.

Kinda sucka for newbros
(lr 10ftw)

Sucks for anyone who hasn't paid. I've been here since open beta and I'm only at rank 2. Meaning they're preventing me from trading for no good reason.

That does stink. How the heck are you only Loyalty Rank 2? You've been here forever!

Anyhow, there is a good reason for the restriction. Newbros get a free booster, so a newbro farmer could effectively produce unlimited boosters. Unsavory characters would be able to redeem unlimited newsletter items. An alt farmer could generate a disproportionately large number of experimental weapons. Keys for winning a daily mission could be freely and easily produced. And so on.

Some restriction had to be put into place to prevent exploitation, and this one's as good as any other. But we should try to find a way to make sure that legitimate players like you aren't being left out. I would say, find a way to work the Forums into the equation, but that'd be too easy to exploit. Maybe let everyone's first few million WP somehow influence Loyalty Rank?

Any other ideas?

Several MMO's have items gained through those means tied (linked, take your pick of wording) to each character that receives them. It seems simple enough.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Spademan 6285	Posted - 2015.04.15 22:53:00 - [33511] - Quote Just read the thingy. Makes sense, gives the losing team a want to fight more while also shearing off an exploit. What're you looking at me like that for? I'll shank you I will.
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 2743	Posted - 2015.04.15 23:31:00 - [33512] - Quote Just got 1M ISK from a pub, no joke. It was a 9v12 Skirm, and it came down to the very last ticks. I went 32/9, with 3003 WP. I was first place, and the guy in second place had about 1700 WP. Our team won. It was such an enjoyable game that I decided to stop playing, since I knew no match would meet it in enjoyability. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 I'm a monster
Spademan 6288	Posted - 2015.04.15 23:36:00 - [33513] - Quote In light of Dreis' post. Pub payouts seem so random. I can get great matches and be rewarded with like 200k isk and get a really meh one and wind up with 400k. And I've never had any above 500k What're you looking at me like that for? I'll shank you I will.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9428	Posted - 2015.04.15 23:58:00 - [33514] - Quote Have been running lots of FW with Cross and Kaeru. Have gotten it to quite a number of games quickly. Have lost about 4 mil ISK, so I hope this LP I am accruing is worth it. Also, Knifed ReGnYum (sp?) after having died to his flea jumping Cal Ass MD. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8769	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:00:00 - [33515] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Also, Knifed ReGnYum \o/ Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Forced Death Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 511	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:06:00 - [33516] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Forced Death wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Forced Death wrote: http://imgur.com/bOGySxX http://imgur.com/hgDqfqE An overview of my layout of skills right now. Min scout 3 CR 5 AR 4 Dampening 5 Uh You're doing pretty dang well for a 10M SP player! (... could've sworn I sniped you in an Assault M/1 today.) Oh you did. But that is not a significant skill that I should list! That's simply just FoTM chasing XD That reminds me! In my frustration today, I came up with something new to do. It isn't particularly productive, but it does pass the time. I call it "the raccoon" :-) * Pack four myofibs on a CalScout * Grab a sniper rifle; queue Ambush * Climb things you aren't supposed to be on * Then try to steal kills from blue dots You were doing just that STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 2745	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:06:00 - [33517] - Quote Spademan wrote: In light of Dreis' post. Pub payouts seem so random. I can get great matches and be rewarded with like 200k isk and get a really meh one and wind up with 400k. And I've never had any above 500k All the gear lost in a pub has it's ISK value put in a collective pool. At the end of the match, 60% of the pool goes to the winning team, and 40% goes to the losing team. The ISK is then divided up amongst teammates based on their WP. In order to achieve very high payouts, several conditions must be met. You need to have significantly more WP than anyone else on your team, there has to have been a lot of Proto or vehicles destroyed, and your team should win. Also, the less people on your team, the greater the share of the team's pool each teammate will get. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 I'm a monster
Dreis Shadowweaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 2745	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:14:00 - [33518] - Quote This genuinely p!ssed me off. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 I'm a monster
Spademan 6291	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:26:00 - [33519] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Spademan wrote: In light of Dreis' post. Pub payouts seem so random. I can get great matches and be rewarded with like 200k isk and get a really meh one and wind up with 400k. And I've never had any above 500k All the gear lost in a pub has it's ISK value put in a collective pool. At the end of the match, 60% of the pool goes to the winning team, and 40% goes to the losing team. The ISK is then divided up amongst teammates based on their WP. In order to achieve very high payouts, several conditions must be met. You need to have significantly more WP than anyone else on your team, there has to have been a lot of Proto or vehicles destroyed, and your team should win. Also, the less people on your team, the greater the share of the team's pool each teammate will get. So what I'm getting from this is I need to get into a 1v10 domination, keep the point hacked and forge gun all their tanks. What're you looking at me like that for? I'll shank you I will.
Spademan 6291	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:26:00 - [33520] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: This genuinely p!ssed me off. This is really weird, I'm 404 with that link too. What're you looking at me like that for? I'll shank you I will.

Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 2746	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:28:00 - [33521] - Quote Spademan wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Spademan wrote: In light of Dreis' post. Pub payouts seem so random. I can get great matches and be rewarded with like 200k isk and get a really meh one and wind up with 400k. And I've never had any above 500k All the gear lost in a pub has it's ISK value put in a collective pool. At the end of the match, 60% of the pool goes to the winning team, and 40% goes to the losing team. The ISK is then divided up amongst teammates based on their WP. In order to achieve very high payouts, several conditions must be met. You need to have significantly more WP than anyone else on your team, there has to have been a lot of Proto or vehicles destroyed, and your team should win. Also, the less people on your team, the greater the share of the team's pool each teammate will get. So what I'm getting from this is I need to get into a 1v10 domination, keep the point hacked and forge gun all their tanks. Pretty much, yeah. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 I'm a monster
Forced Death Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 515	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:54:00 - [33522] - Quote I really can't believe CCP will allow players to be scammed in this. It's a loss of property. They paid real money, and when you trade essentially 20$, and get nothing in return, that's stealing! How does CCP expect to not get rekt by someone who says that CCP aided a theft by allowing scams to go on within something that allows people to rob others of real life currency value because New Eden! STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8771	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:10:00 - [33523] - Quote Spademan wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: This genuinely p!ssed me off. This is really weird, I'm 404 with that link too. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199258 Manually copy/paste the above string. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8771	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:12:00 - [33524] - Quote Forced Death wrote: I really can't believe CCP will allow players to be scammed in this. It's a loss of property. They paid real money, and when you trade essentially 20$, and get nothing in return, that's stealing! How does CCP expect to not get rekt by someone who says that CCP aided a theft by allowing scams to go on within something that allows people to rob others of real life currency value because New Eden! What are you talking about? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Forced Death Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 516	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:46:00 - [33525] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Forced Death wrote: I really can't believe CCP will allow players to be scammed in this. It's a loss of property. They paid real money, and when you trade essentially 20$, and get nothing in return, that's stealing! How does CCP expect to not get rekt by someone who says that CCP aided a theft by allowing scams to go on within something that allows people to rob others of real life currency value because New Eden! Are you talking about player trading? Scams are a big part of what makes New Eden unique (or so I've been told). Plus, it'd be impossible for the Devs to police player interactions or play referee each and every time there's a dispute. But the things traded like BPO and boosters are real life assets because bought with real money. Can't there be an option of, if I give you this and I choose this from you assets, can you authorize this transaction between us? Not just I give you this and hopefully you give me something in return STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
Vyuru Algintal Core Gallente Federation 114	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:16:00 - [33526] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: [quote=Vyuru] I once killed a ProMinAssault Jumper with militia nova knives on a militia minmatar heavy frame. People in my corp challenged me to get a kill with this fit, so I did it. That 1 mil extra isk tastes good. I'm betting that was you, good job! :D Quote: But the things traded like BPO and boosters are real life assets because bought with real money. Can't there be an option of, if I give you this and I choose this from you assets, can you authorize this transaction between us? Not just I give you this and hopefully you give me something in return Much as I would like to see that happen, unfortunately I don't think it will. Either middlemen will reign supreme, or you will have to be VERY careful of who you deal with. I played EVE for awhile, loved it. But that is definitely a game where people will grief you just to grief you. If you have not played it, you can almost not imagine all the ways they can mess with you. I got extremely lucky and bumped into an awesome corp back when I was a newbie, go Armilies!!! I miss ya'll!! But what would really be nice would be a trading system like in Eve, or ye olde FFXI, where you can have a trading screen up and each can confirm that what each person is trading is legit.
Henrietta Unknown Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1168	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:26:00 - [33527] - Quote Forced Death wrote: I really can't believe CCP will allow players to be scammed in this. It's a loss of property. They paid real money, and when you trade essentially 20$, and get nothing in return, that's stealing! How does CCP expect to not get rekt by someone who says that CCP aided a theft by allowing scams to go on within something that allows people to rob others of real life currency value because New Eden! For the time being, most people accept paying ISK first. ISK isn't exactly bought with currency, and the margin of potential grief there is diminished. Sellers are fewer than buyers, and can be identified and investigated more easily. Direct trading of items is another story. Selling Items Store - Code Bazaar
First Prophet Nos Nothi 2833	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:47:00 - [33528] - Quote I'm like Rank 7 and I never play the game. People find this this review helpful!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8774	Posted - 2015.04.16 04:14:00 - [33529] - Quote Take back half of the nasty things I said about FW. Actually had alot of fun tonight with Cross, OEK, Admonishment and Kaeru + R2P crew. That last match was awesome!!! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9434	Posted - 2015.04.16 04:24:00 - [33530] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Take back half of the nasty things I've said about FW. Had alot of fun tonight with Cross, OEK, Admonishment and Kaeru + R2P crew. Our last match was awesome!!! Our ragtag 5 man squad was up against an 8-man corporate q-sync; cloned 'em at the last second, w/ 2 ticks of armor left on our MCC! I would like to imagine that is what PC is like. Mostly because it was close fought, and I did well. In other news, the MinAss is OP. If I can take my Level 3 racial butt into a hard fought game and go 12/8 in a Assault M-1, something is wrong. Especially when my Scout Mk.0 wasn't getting it done. I wasn't planning on spending so long playing tonight, but ran into Cross and Kaeru, and was having a blast, so I just stayed in. That, and because MinFW was queuing in under a minute most times. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2578	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:03:00 - [33531] - Quote Aww sounds like fun, wish I'd been there. You guys plan on playing tomorrow? Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23226	Posted - 2015.04.16 08:30:00 - [33532] - Quote Spademan wrote: noob cavman wrote: Spademan wrote: So player trading is restricted to loyalty rank 4 and above. A huge slap in the face for no reason. Kinda sucka for newbros (lr 10ftw) Sucks for anyone who hasn't paid. I've been here since open beta and I'm only at rank 2. Meaning they're preventing me from trading for no good reason. Buy more AUR! Gallente Guide one day i may leave the basement but that day is not today
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23226	Posted - 2015.04.16 08:32:00 - [33533] - Quote BTW folks, the Gallente trading emporium I am running with a few others will function as a recorded middleman service. We have capture cards, so we can prove transactions went through. Gallente Guide one day i may leave the basement but that day is not today
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8781	Posted - 2015.04.16 12:45:00 - [33534] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Aww sounds like fun, wish I'd been there. You guys plan on playing tomorrow? Think the FW Event is wrapping up: http://dust514.com/events/accelerated-lp-week-3/ Either way, I'll be online and LFS later today. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2133	Posted - 2015.04.16 12:45:00 - [33535] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Forced Death wrote: I really can't believe CCP will allow players to be scammed in this. It's a loss of property. They paid real money, and when you trade essentially 20$, and get nothing in return, that's stealing! How does CCP expect to not get rekt by someone who says that CCP aided a theft by allowing scams to go on within something that allows people to rob others of real life currency value because New Eden! Are you talking about player trading? Scams are a big part of what makes New Eden unique (or so I've been told). Plus, it'd be impossible for the Devs to police player interactions or play referee each and every time there's a dispute. Put it this way. This is simple player trading. It's what they can bring to the table soonest. You get to choose if you want to do it or not. Would you rather have simple player trading, or no trading at all for as long as it takes to put a more formal system in that makes it harder to scam. Regardless of your answer, this is why it is like this. Some people will want it, others won't. The trading part of "simple player trading" is based on trust, nothing more, so don't expect to receive what you ask for if you don't trust them. In terms of theft - it is virtual theft in a game. It isn't real life supported (or not depending on your pov) by real life laws. As for scams that's slightly different; you still have to fall for it. You are in control until you give something without having received what you ask for in return. In EVE scams are usually broadcasts in chat as opposed to a direct conversation with someone to arrange trade. Scammers usually come to you, not vice-versa. I'm sure you could find some examples of the chat that goes on in Jita local in EVE Online. Once you see that, and then understand that it's not breaking any rules, you will likely have a better idea. It's entirely within the meta of what CCP allow. Want more? Look up the history of the Burn Jita event - these shenanigans are the sort of thing that makes Eve unique imo. Hulkageddon? Hilarious (unless you were in one, and even then...). There are so many stories of espionage, sabotage, wallet stealing...it is absolutely unique. All within the "rules"...CCP are eating popcorn when this is going on guaranteed.
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2133	Posted - 2015.04.16 12:49:00 - [33536] - Quote Vyuru wrote: I know it's out there somewheres, but I can't find the post that details what actions affect Loyalty Ranks. Reason I ask is I have an alt who is still rank 0 who has items I'd want to trade with my main. Given how steep the requirements are however, that may not be happening. And this is exactly what they want to prevent...or at least constrain because where there's a will there's a way. Frankly if you spend half your play time on another account, then who cares if you transfer items to another account. It's the easy "I Win" buttons that they are trying to remove.
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 2133	Posted - 2015.04.16 12:56:00 - [33537] - Quote Spademan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Spademan wrote: noob cavman wrote: Spademan wrote: So player trading is restricted to loyalty rank 4 and above. A huge slap in the face for no reason. Kinda sucka for newbros (lr 10ftw) Sucks for anyone who hasn't paid. I've been here since open beta and I'm only at rank 2. Meaning they're preventing me from trading for no good reason. That does stink. How the heck are you only Loyalty Rank 2? You've been here forever! Anyhow, there is a good reason for the restriction. Newbros get a free booster, so a newbro farmer could effectively produce unlimited boosters. Unsavory characters would be able to redeem unlimited newsletter items. An alt farmer could generate a disproportionately large number of experimental weapons. Keys for winning a daily mission could be freely and easily produced. And so on. Some restriction had to be put into place to prevent exploitation, and this one's as good as any other. But we should try to find a way to make sure that legitimate players like you aren't being left out. I would say, find a way to work the Forums into the equation, but that'd be too easy to exploit. Maybe let everyone's first few million WP somehow influence Loyalty Rank? Any other ideas? Several MMO's have items gained through those means tied (linked, take your pick of wording) to each character that receives them. It seems simple enough. I think "account bound" is the sort of terminology you're looking for (Blizzard call it this). This would go some way to addressing the problem, but does not solve the possibility of farming. - newsletter items Supposedly these are only available for the newsletters published after your merc's d-o-b. Not really exploitable without big effort. - Other ideas Don't base it on loyalty rank and then attempt to tweak the loyalty rank calculations. Just base it on WP. If you wanted to get complicated about it (so maybe not possible right now), you could limit trading in some way to a maximum per week / month whatever. Based on WP that week / month. The fix is to force a merc to spend time on the alt accounts to solve the farming issue.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 950	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:20:00 - [33538] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Spademan wrote: When issuing it'd be nice if there was a public/private setting. In public anyone meeting the criteria (be that MU or whatever) could join, and if set to private you could enter the name of corp/corps to receive. Exactly what I was thinking !! +1 EDIT: I would also add that this is a perfect example of what Rattati was looking for when he asked us: How do we make Dust feel like New Eden without making it EveOnline??? I would say that CONTRACTS are the bread, butter, heart, soul, flesh and blood of New Eden. Both in the NPC and Player issued variety. Yes, we could also add special requirements for each contract because I'm sure that the top PC corps don't want fresh blueberries out of the academy. Corps could be able to set it so only players 10 mil SP or above or 20 mil SP or above. Or perhaps they could do it by the Skills you have, for instance if a Corp is looking for tankers in its PC it could set a contract so that people with the HAV skill unlocked to lvl 5 could join. Sorry just spitballing here. The Eve CERTIFICATE system comes to mind. Do you guys know about that?? It would be absolutely PERFECT for this. I am unfamiliar. If you wouldn't mind an explanation, that would be cool. Basically when you have a certain combination of skills at specific levels you are granted a certificate. You can also browser certificates and then view what skills you need to earn that particular certificate. It's a way for veteran players to be able to share, at a glance, what they can do, and also a means for new players to PLAN what skills they need. Some certificates need other certificates together to unlock, making it an interesting meta-progression system. They don't do anything on their own, they only serve for communication and planning, but they could be used to label mercs by their talents and proficiencies. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 950	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:32:00 - [33539] - Quote Shoutouts to Admonishment, One Eyed King and Shotty. o7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7nv_2LZZs our last FW of the night, from my POV. This is what happens when I squad lead, I sit there, die a lot, and talk too much ! XD Know what cannot be known.
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 2756	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:45:00 - [33540] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: In other news, the MinAss is OP. If I can take my Level 3 racial butt into a hard fought game and go 12/8 in a Assault M-1, something is wrong. Especially when my Scout Mk.0 wasn't getting it done. Would I be using the Amarr Assault if it wasn't more OP than the Min Assault? Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 I'm a monster



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