DUST Search - Sticky:Aiming and control system in general

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Hi guys,

WeGÇÖve just finished testing a further update to the aiming systems and we will be deploying this to you today. This time the changes are primarily focused on improving the DS3 controls but there are some little tweaks for the mouse in there as well. I have decided not to explain what has actually changed (yet) as I donGÇÖt want to influence your feedback. I will fill you in once youGÇÖve had a chance to play with them and shout praise/abuse.

In other control related news:

* We are looking in to whether or not the DS3 acceleration to max rotation speed is respecting the actual settings (thanks Sete Clifton for noticing there might be an issue here).

* After some investigation we discovered that the sensitivity input curve being used by the mouse was incorrect. Despite new settings being present they were not being used. This issue requires a code update to fix and that is something we are working on as we speak. We will let you know when that is ready (this issue does not effect DS3 users).

* Related to that we found a bug with the mouse sensitivity input curve that is being used which resulted in some weird spikes when changing sensitivity. This occurs at settings of 20 and 100 and will be fixed once the above issue has been.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries 322	Posted - 2013.05.14 18:35:00 - [181] - Quote DS3 user. 40/30 AA On. The new version feels just as bad as the old version to be perfectly honest. I noticed no changes whatsoever when I played today. I think I'm going to redownload the game tonight and see if it helps at all. If that doesn't work though, can't we at least get an option to use Chromosome's aiming system? Because this is teetering on the brink of unplayable and I know a lot of people feel the exact same way.
Khan Hun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 39	Posted - 2013.05.14 19:03:00 - [182] - Quote Noticed no difference in the launch version with a mouse, pleased to see it being worked on though, CQC using any weapon is awful, I've taken to holding the mouse still and strafing until the guy is in the crosshairs which is nuts for a modern shooter.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 144	Posted - 2013.05.14 19:18:00 - [183] - Quote I'm noticing a slight improvement, the lower sensitivities seem to work a little better now. Did you reduce the acceleration/smoothing time? That's what it feels like to me. I do have to say though that I've noticed CQC battles still don't seem right. I'm still running into the same problem where me and the opponent both end up shooting mostly air. Overall, I'd say from the little time I've had so far it feels slightly better (on a DS3), but seems to be mostly the same. I'm interested to hear what has specifically been changed though, hopefully Wolfam can tell us soon, because I think it would help us with giving feedback. And If it's possible, I'd be interested to know more about the specific design of the aiming system itself (please ?). Also, thanks for the shout out Wolfman, I'm just glad I could help.
XiBravo TeamPlayers EoN. 35	Posted - 2013.05.14 19:38:00 - [184] - Quote Mouse aiming is still atrocious. Came in to see new new update, played 1 round, and than turned the playstation off... Maybe I'll read a book... CCP is treading on thin ice with how easy it is to put their game down.
Muchomojo xCosmic Voidx 13	Posted - 2013.05.14 21:09:00 - [185] - Quote Definite improvement, but the CQC is a mess. Mouse setting at sensitivity 20 is still broken.
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 24	Posted - 2013.05.15 00:15:00 - [186] - Quote i keep saying it but people act like thay dont see what i am saying. the speed at witch we move in this game is just to fast it needs to be a bit slower so the aim system can keep up. you can try all you like to make the aim better but if people move at like mach 6 speed in this game what time do you have to train you sight on them. an people wounder why thay cant hit anything .what was the last shooter in the past 5 years where you can run this fast. this is why people move slower in real shooters so you have more time to aim and not this arcade sht where people just run past being shot. you dont see people running at mach 6 in cod farcry3 or any of the batlefield games an ths game is just about the same as bf. see heres the funny thing if it only took 3 to chest an 1 to the head i dont think anyone would have a problem but here when some people can have like 300 shields or more an like 500 armor the time it take to kill just 1 of them can take 30 sec to a min. an it is becuse we have all this armor an shield an the super fast run strafe speed an all this jumping that is makeing cqc feel off. but what do i know i have only been playing shooters for like 17 years or more.
Renirc Ekir Armored Wolves Alpha Wolf Pack 0	Posted - 2013.05.15 00:43:00 - [187] - Quote i am having issues with the move controllers when you go into aim mode the weapon it self does not move just a little dot. when aiming down the sights i would think the entire weapons should move. there is also some lag there.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 135	Posted - 2013.05.15 02:50:00 - [188] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: DS3 user. 40/30 AA On. The new version feels just as bad as the old version to be perfectly honest. I noticed no changes whatsoever when I played today. I think I'm going to redownload the game tonight and see if it helps at all. If that doesn't work though, can't we at least get an option to use Chromosome's aiming system? Because this is teetering on the brink of unplayable and I know a lot of people feel the exact same way. Yep also mouse aiming is still being completely inconsistent at close range and the majority of time at range there is uncontrollable sway when making slight adjustments left and right.. Maybe a fix or roll back before thursday !?
wolfstrike05 Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.15 02:57:00 - [189] - Quote well I would like to know if the aiming asst does really work because I like to be able to lock on sort of than manual move the sight on a target and add to the list it may not fall into same topic but I get stuck on every little thing on the map like being traped then get killed in place.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 351	Posted - 2013.05.15 02:58:00 - [190] - Quote Renirc Ekir wrote: i am having issues with the move controllers when you go into aim mode the weapon it self does not move just a little dot. when aiming down the sights i would think the entire weapons should move. there is also some lag there. Hi What weapon were you using? The weapon should absolutely be moving. Please let me know so we can check it out.


Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 142	Posted - 2013.05.15 04:24:00 - [191] - Quote Khan Hun wrote: Noticed no difference in the launch version with a mouse, pleased to see it being worked on though, CQC using any weapon is awful, I've taken to holding the mouse still and strafing until the guy is in the crosshairs which is nuts for a modern shooter. I was wondering if others picked up on this. I, too, have been using the STRAFING for doing fine aiming. I just can't precise movement with a mouse right now with this input lag and virtual joystick feel, and the acceleration, alongside the huge amount of strafing.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 428	Posted - 2013.05.15 05:55:00 - [192] - Quote KB/M aim still feels terrible. On all settings. Give me raw or give me death. I can't take this much longer.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 269	Posted - 2013.05.15 10:30:00 - [193] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, WeGÇÖve just finished testing a further update to the aiming systems and we will be deploying this to you today. This time the changes are primarily focused on improving the DS3 controls but there are some little tweaks for the mouse in there as well. I have decided not to explain what has actually changed (yet) as I donGÇÖt want to influence your feedback. I will fill you in once youGÇÖve had a chance to play with them and shout praise/abuse. In other control related news: * We are looking in to whether or not the DS3 acceleration to max rotation speed is respecting the actual settings (thanks Sete Clifton for noticing there might be an issue here). * After some investigation we discovered that the sensitivity input curve being used by the mouse was incorrect. Despite new settings being present they were not being used. This issue requires a code update to fix and that is something we are working on as we speak. We will let you know when that is ready (this issue does not effect DS3 users). * Related to that we found a bug with the mouse sensitivity input curve that is being used which resulted in some weird spikes when changing sensitivity. This occurs at settings of 20 and 100 and will be fixed once the above issue has been. Cheers CCP Wolfman I actually documented that spike at 20, though noone reads my posts /sulk I had to put this discussion down a few days ago because it was driving me nutters and just went on to play the game instead, regardless of its aiming issues. Some people ingame mailed me how i am coping with the new changes and i have to say, ive adapted to it, however this does not mean the controlls for KB/M are fine atm. Because they aren't. Long & medium range i can again track targets decently, just not pin point accuratly as i ussualy do. Cqc where i normally excell at with a Sniper Rifle (APB Reloaded) and can 2 shot people with a TTK of 1.5 seconds bolt action sniper while up to 3 people shoot at me with 0.6-0.7s TTK fully automatic weapons and kill all 3 before they deplete my hp. (Yes i use cover properly) Honestly if i have to guess and throw a number at how much precise aim i have in Dust is more like 20%, it feels as if all my skill is sapped at fighting frame smoothing or some other behind the door system that creates a sense of 30+ smooth framerates at the cost of input issues, they seem to just be more apparant to mouse users. I know we Mouse users jerk them around and the PS3 has to follow and ive known my PS3 to stall allot when i dragshot onto a target, making me miss that target, ive never seen a movie where a DS3 user has a stall onscreen, while all people i play Dust with (KB/M) users all have these stall issues and we have all diffrent timeframed PS3's. While the game is playable again and at least fun, its nowhere near the level i can bring out any resemblance of solid aim. PS: This is all done at 576P resolution, it is MUCH worse at 720P.
DJINN serious issues Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 26	Posted - 2013.05.15 12:41:00 - [194] - Quote No mention of input fix on downtime notice... wolfman give up?
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 56	Posted - 2013.05.15 14:34:00 - [195] - Quote Will we be seeing Chromosome aiming mechanic brought back
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 16:20:00 - [196] - Quote I had no issues in Chromosome (except at the very beggining when i was new) none in Uprising or after the mouse hotfix. But yesterday I felt like I couldnt hit anything. CQ was horrible. Mid/long was a bit less of an issue, and may just be me needing to adjust to new settings. But TBH CQ felt like there was zero aim assist. Reminds me of trying to shoot team-mates in HALO. Aim asisst has never been that strong in this game, but it felt even weaker yesterday.
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 24	Posted - 2013.05.15 16:50:00 - [197] - Quote so after doin some more testing with the setting i to have come to find the acceleration is way to much. ccp i hope you there an read this but even at 0-0 on my ds3 setting i can still turn supper fast. an if i set it to 1-1 not only do i turn supper fast but you can see the acceleration kick in at about the last 75% of the turn an then your aim just takes off out of control. so ccp what i want to know is why cant we change the settings in smaller numbers like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 you know like most shooters. as it is now it goes 1 5 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 like what the hell is that all about. see the speed at witch you aim an how fast you turn should come from how high of a number you have set. meaning at 0 i turn supper slow an at 50 i turn at half the max speed. so ccp think you can make 1 more change to the aiming an remove the acceleration an change the settings to go up by 1 not by 5.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 147	Posted - 2013.05.15 21:30:00 - [198] - Quote So I tried M/KB for the first time (in Dust) today, just to see what it's like. Now I can totally understand that for people who play on PC regularly that the aiming feels weird/bad/off/whatever, but it's a hundred times better than the DS3. ADS with a mouse does have its troubles, but I can't believe how much more accurate I could be with the mouse. Not only that, but CQC is considerably easier. Also, TAR + mouse = insane. Now I know why people are so upset about it. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is not an endorsement for M/KB, or as a call to further nerf it. I bring it up because it really shows how much more work the DS3 desperately needs. I knew there were problems with the DS3 aiming before, but I didn't really know how big of a difference it was between the two devices.
Chase Chouhada Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.15 21:54:00 - [199] - Quote Sorry if this has been mentioned - I've not checked all the thread. For me the main issue is latency - the speed at which the movement on screen relates to where the mouse is seems to be quite high. It's really noticeable when using iron sights. The tracking just isn't precise enough. I use the Unreal engine a lot for development so I know this "feeling" - it reminds me of when you have VSync on and low FPS on the PC. Almost exactly the same. I'm wondering if the added load from Uprising has caused this? Have you changed light type by any chance? Deferred / Forward? I've seen some crazy things happen with the input latency when changing lighting types. That to one side - it would be awesome to be able to use the additional mouse buttons. Unreal supports them natively (although I know you've modified the code base a lot ~60% IIRC from Fanfest).
DJINN serious issues Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 27	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:29:00 - [200] - Quote Sete Clifton wrote: So I tried M/KB for the first time (in Dust) today, just to see what it's like. Now I can totally understand that for people who play on PC regularly that the aiming feels weird/bad/off/whatever, but it's a hundred times better than the DS3. ADS with a mouse does have its troubles, but I can't believe how much more accurate I could be with the mouse. Not only that, but CQC is considerably easier. Also, TAR + mouse = insane. Now I know why people are so upset about it. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is not an endorsement for M/KB, or as a call to further nerf it. I bring it up because it really shows how much more work the DS3 desperately needs. I knew there were problems with the DS3 aiming before, but I didn't really know how big of a difference it was between the two devices. You are nuts. The ds3 is way better than the mouse. Far more precise right now. The mouse sensitivity increments are so messed up that the only viable sensitivity is 100%. The y axis is half the speed of the x axis at least. Don't get me started on the ads with the TAC using mouse. Good luck tracking anything that is not in the distance. Plus the mini quarter sized scope is rediculous. The only way to play this game right now is ds3 and just can't go back after tasting chromosome mouse and keyboard.

NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 456	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:59:00 - [201] - Quote Don't know if it's just me, but today felt a lot better than all of last week. DS3.
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 27	Posted - 2013.05.15 23:26:00 - [202] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Don't know if it's just me, but today felt a lot better than all of last week. DS3. dont misunderstand what is goin on your just getting use to the bs aiming not that the aiming is better. i mean it is a bit better but not to the point that its fps good.
Orange Kush Dabin Wax 0	Posted - 2013.05.16 00:23:00 - [203] - Quote Im using the DS3 for controls, and man this game just feels off to me. It feels slow and draggy no matter the sensitivity I am on. Is there some trick, or setting I can change to get this to feel better?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 138	Posted - 2013.05.16 03:58:00 - [204] - Quote Orange Kush wrote: Im using the DS3 for controls, and man this game just feels off to me. It feels slow and draggy no matter the sensitivity I am on. Is there some trick, or setting I can change to get this to feel better? Nope and you aren't the only one Massively.com wrote: Avatar movement is quite mushy in the current build, and aiming with the controller is an exercise in frustration. I did see some improvement toward the end of my six hours, but I can't honestly use the word fun to describe the experience. Cons: Dated presentation/visualsSloppy, imprecise shooter controls, Inadequate keyboard/mouse support, Future potential tied to-áEVE Online
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 861	Posted - 2013.05.16 04:29:00 - [205] - Quote omfg please fix mouse controls so i can activate my freaking modules in my tank before tomorrow. at this rate PC is going to be the biggest joke ever. just a bunch of caldari logis using duvolle tacticals and modded controllers. at least with those they do the aiming for you instead of having to use the dust controls. Has anyone at CCP even tried using a tank with a mouse this build? PLEASE rollback to chromosome mouse support for PC. Please make it so i can use a mouse when i drive tanks instead of a wonky one hand on controller one hand on keyboard setup...
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3018	Posted - 2013.05.16 05:01:00 - [206] - Quote I've had one key complaint about Sixaxis aim that, as of the release of Uprising, was still unsolved. -Lack of aim scaling. Since the official release on the 14th, THIS HAS BEEN FIXED. Unfortunately, they also added another problem to contend with which at least partly negates this solution. -Acceleration. This is great for some people, but not for everyone, and it NEEDS to be something we can TURN OFF.
supersayinb Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 67	Posted - 2013.05.16 05:52:00 - [207] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've had one key complaint about Sixaxis aim that, as of the release of Uprising, was still unsolved. -Lack of aim scaling. Since the official release on the 14th, THIS HAS BEEN FIXED. Unfortunately, they also added another problem to contend with which at least partly negates this solution. -Acceleration. This is great for some people, but not for everyone, and it NEEDS to be something we can TURN OFF. A toggle for the acceleration would be very nice indeed.
DJINN serious issues Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 27	Posted - 2013.05.16 13:51:00 - [208] - Quote supersayinb wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've had one key complaint about Sixaxis aim that, as of the release of Uprising, was still unsolved. -Lack of aim scaling. Since the official release on the 14th, THIS HAS BEEN FIXED. Unfortunately, they also added another problem to contend with which at least partly negates this solution. -Acceleration. This is great for some people, but not for everyone, and it NEEDS to be something we can TURN OFF. A toggle for the acceleration would be very nice indeed. Lets face it. We have been pushed to the Feedback/Request section. No further talk of control fixes from the devs in the past 2 days... This is done. Was nice playing with you guys. Maybe we'll see some enhancements on the next gen consoles to prep it for PC release. Then when PC comes we will hopefully be able to tweak the config files ourselves to get the aiming we desire. Until then I guess it's something else until the pain of having to switch back to DS3 subsides a bit.
supersayinb Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 70	Posted - 2013.05.16 20:40:00 - [209] - Quote DJINN serious issues wrote: supersayinb wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've had one key complaint about Sixaxis aim that, as of the release of Uprising, was still unsolved. -Lack of aim scaling. Since the official release on the 14th, THIS HAS BEEN FIXED. Unfortunately, they also added another problem to contend with which at least partly negates this solution. -Acceleration. This is great for some people, but not for everyone, and it NEEDS to be something we can TURN OFF. A toggle for the acceleration would be very nice indeed. Lets face it. We have been pushed to the Feedback/Request section. No further talk of control fixes from the devs in the past 2 days... This is done. Was nice playing with you guys. Maybe we'll see some enhancements on the next gen consoles to prep it for PC release. Then when PC comes we will hopefully be able to tweak the config files ourselves to get the aiming we desire. Until then I guess it's something else until the pain of having to switch back to DS3 subsides a bit. Wouldn't bother, the DS3 is broken too.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 142	Posted - 2013.05.16 23:59:00 - [210] - Quote With the lack of communication, I'm really wondering if we are going to see a fix soon, or are we supposed to just deal till the next big update...?



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