The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical).

As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates.

In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind.

Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible.

WHY AIMING GOT BORKED

Or my best guess, at any rate. And really, this is just about the DS3 although parts of it apply to the KB/M agrument also. This whole discussion assumes aim assist is off.

The fundamental critisism of aiming/control mechanics in Chromo was that the controller curve was not a curve but rather three flat lines pasted together(looking something like: \_/ ). The problem with this was that when you pushed right stick over too much aiming became twitchy at the transition from the deadzone to the sloped part of the controller curve. Adjusting deadzone width through the MOVE menu and the slope of the lines through the sensitivity setting in the controller menu helped a lot.

These adjustments made things bearable, and we all got used to it eventually. Problem was, the control mechanics were almost always mentioned in negative reviews of DUST. In Uprising, CCP has taken a serious swing at addressing those complaints. So although many forum warriors are crying out for a reversion to the old aiming/controller mechanics, that would be a bad idea. Uprising's mechanics need to be made to work, and work well. If that can't happen CCP will have to rewrite controller mechanics again.

But let's focus on Uprising's mechanics as they stand.

I believe the only real change CCP made was to add rotation acceleration for mercs. This adds realism but also is supposed to make fine adjustment a lot smoother, and when implemented correctly it does. If CCP got the physics right then the acceleration applies symetrically to speeding up and slowing down. Tbh i have not yet tested whether the deceleration is in effect and implemented properly, will tonight.

But the acceleration/deceleration is not the problem.

The problem is still the controller curve, and the reason most likely is that CCP did not change the curve in any significant way. It still has abrupt transitions, and is probably exactly what we had in Chromo. You can see this transition in your merc quarters or better yet out in the field. Just very slowly push the right thumbstick over and start to rotate - keep going and you'll eventually see the abrupt transision to a higher rotation speed. This is the problem. Because we're pushing the stick over slowly we know that the transition to highr speed rotation is not being caused by acceleration, but rather by the controller curve.

When you compound this abrupt control curve transition with the rotation acceleration, things become very hard to control and predict and presto! - 3 clip gunfights.

Edit: One last thing.

Devs, i love you guys - and i'm not just sayin' that 'cause i'm drunk, either.

And i really hate to say i told you so, but i told you so:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=571299#post571299

Noobs.

@Rei Shepard

It seems to be all relative, so why wouldn't DS3 and kb/m users share the same thread.. They want us to be on an even playing field right.. So try to be less of an ass . . K. ?

M/KB user here. After today's patch aiming got a lot better. It is on the same level as it was in Chromosome I'd say, and that's good enough for me.

I'm using a Razer Diamondback 3G, sensitivity 80, smoothing off, aim assist off.

Thanks for this fix, CCP!

Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer.

Maybe. But lots of players LOVE console shooters. Trying to allow both is a huge mistake, and is likely why they have so much trouble getting the aim down. Its almost impossible to balance correctly. If you just made good controls for both, mouse users would dominate with pinpoint accuracy.

Back when I first heard about DUST I knew the biggest issue would be controls, and trying to get aiming fair with both controllers and mouse. And its obvious they are struggling with that big time, leaving both controls schemes below standard. Force people to use one or the other.

If its a mouse, youll lose a ton more players than if its a DS3 though, thats for sure.

Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer.

That's it, I quit.

Dust is dead, good bye.


1. Different suits gives you different speed limit - this is NOT what an fps should behave. This has became a first person MMORPG. With this "mechanism" in place, the game will never be skill based, and the control will NEVER be fixed because of how speed limits works. With speed limits on, you cannot even twitch shoot enemies even within a small angle. Your reaction time is not a useful skill anymore.

Dust is now confirmed to be an RPG and not a shooter. The "first person shooter" experience I am looking for is DEAD.


2. So you basically confirmed the CCP logic "mouse is too good for FPS (duh) so we nerfed it! :D ".

Since I am a mouse user, I can not put up with non-sense like this.

Seriously can nobody see how stupid it sounds?


Good bye Dust, it was good while it lasted.

Speed cap is a necessity for the control schemes to be at least moderately balanced.

Dont tell me what to do, and i will not say where you must go. I have same rights to show my opinion here.If CCP can balance it - i will happy. If they wont balance - ds3 users wont play. Thats all.

p.s. and try to read posts fully next time, i told about balance too, but best way is disabling kbm, coz 10-15% is kbm users. And they are crying here for keep their advantage.

Aim is better now after the hotfix... but still not good. The aim problem is really evident when shooting small static targets. Destroying enemy nanohives best illustrates the problem. I'm guessing it's the acceleration? Creates a swaying effect similar to a scoped sniper. At least that's the best way I can think to describe it.

Mouse sensitivity at 40. Setting it at twenty is still broken.

p.s. I mean not noobs with kbm, i mean best players, they always better coz easy type of controls.

Hi guys,

WeGÇÖve just finished testing a further update to the aiming systems and we will be deploying this to you today. This time the changes are primarily focused on improving the DS3 controls but there are some little tweaks for the mouse in there as well. I have decided not to explain what has actually changed (yet) as I donGÇÖt want to influence your feedback. I will fill you in once youGÇÖve had a chance to play with them and shout praise/abuse.

In other control related news:

* We are looking in to whether or not the DS3 acceleration to max rotation speed is respecting the actual settings (thanks Sete Clifton for noticing there might be an issue here).

* After some investigation we discovered that the sensitivity input curve being used by the mouse was incorrect. Despite new settings being present they were not being used. This issue requires a code update to fix and that is something we are working on as we speak. We will let you know when that is ready (this issue does not effect DS3 users).

* Related to that we found a bug with the mouse sensitivity input curve that is being used which resulted in some weird spikes when changing sensitivity. This occurs at settings of 20 and 100 and will be fixed once the above issue has been.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

This is PS3,
FORGET ABOUT THE MOUSE AND KEYBOARD.
FORGET ABOUT THE AUTO AIM FOR EVERYONE,THIS IS MULTIPLAYER NOT SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN!

thank you =)

Started playing bf3 on PC while I wait on the fix. Forgot how good kbm settings feel like. Oh man dust is so far away. Still anxiously awaiting the control patch.

Doom ran well on a 486. You got ripped off.

Hey guys! Ok I wanna start by saying I'm not looking for a "pitty party". But I will say that I play dust with a bit of a handicap and there maybe others who share some frustration, idk. I was born without fingers on my right hand. Now don't get me wrong, I been playing fps for a long time and I can throw down with the rest of them. But I would like to see some customizable control options. Not the preset ones, I'm talking like default controls but maybe customizing our shoulder buttons to better accommodate some users. Anyway, just a thought, Ccp keep up the good work, great game!

an issue also is when you zoom with assault rifles it magnifys your sensitivity per zoom instead of fine tuning your aim

So many complaints about the aiming. I have no issues with the aiming system now or before uprising, as said above, don't like it too bad.

Ds3 user here

I dont know if anythings been changed since downtime today, but if it wasnt ccp, then i think i fixed mine, at least so far so good.

I deleted my old game data (obv not save data) and then used that ps3 recovery menu to rebuild the file system and then re-do the database after

then re-installed dust

And again, so far so good, its completely different to anything i've experianced this past two weeks, cant belive i had been playing it with how bad it was, the framerate has improved loads and along with it the aiming, seems much more fluid and consistant now

If mine stays like this im content

ETA on mouse aiming fix !?

Seems to be the DS3 users have all adjust or gave in... just leaves the minority mouse users... Don't be racist CCP its not a good look...

Yeah i think we need an update about how its all comming along, or if you think "its" fine .....

Run a /fps in the top right corner or something on your build and lemme know where it caps out at, anything below 30 fps is not fine...

ccp can we get an update as to whats goin on. every other post gets a dev saying something an half of them are are people an devs just bsing around. so can we get a dev here to talk with an bs around please theres cake.

I noticed a significant difference in aiming last night (6/5). Has something changed with kb/m acceleration? Also it appears the radial selection menu is functioning better for squad commands and equipment. All good things!

So I got fed up with a guy nailing me with 100% accuracy using a Railgun today.. Watched the way the gun moved, knew it was a KBM..

I have to say, it was not what I was expecting. Precise aiming is there, but it's so.. Unresponsive.. Quick spins of the mouse take have a delay before they take traction(and they don't even get far), but the tiniest twitch of my hand caused my aim to shift around. And don't even get me started on the key bindings.. What a headache.. I actually found myself reaching for the DS3 when I needed to do fittings, because I the bindings weren't clear, and the radial menu to outfit a suit was poor at beast.

Another one thats just had enough, 3 weeks and no improvements is beyond a joke, and this is coming from someone that plays haven and hearth lol

Im not even logging in to afk, player count is clearly dropping, and rightly so, maybe a lack of players will spark some interest from ccp quicker than our questioning and complaints

Still waiting on the fix, or news of it, because this isn't getting better on its own.

Seeing that almost noone posts in this thread anymore most of the KBM users have either given up on a fix or quit, i havent played a single match in the last 2 weeks and to think i was sick of chromosone and couldnt wait for Uprising to hit the updater.

Wish i knew back then what i know now.

Rei Shepard - your friends PS3, same version firmware? Same mouse? I suspect it has something to do with the USB ports

PC to PS3 input, adjustable like Eagle Eye, according to some users (from their forums) it is smoother than Eagle Eye, and perhaps allow better adjustments. Also it polls at 250hz which is higher than PS3 controller (100hz) and also perhaps mice connected directly (100hz?).

This post is meant for CCP devs. Please forward to relevant parties.

I was digging around the internets about mouse lags in Unreal Engine 3, and it seems that Dust 514 doesn't suffer from this problem alone.

Here is a summary of contributing factors to lag, and their fixes:



1. Jumpy framerate - irregular framerates, sudden framerate drops, they all make it harder to aim (because your vision of motions is disrupted).
Solution: A better and more responsive adaptive degradation to compensate framerate drops. Also see 3.

2. Data streaming - it means the game loads data while playing. Evident from the textures and polygons popping up. This loading contributes to performance issues and influences the framerate.
Solution: Turn this off, or limit how much system resources it uses.

3. V-sync - PC FPS players will know this. V-syncs add buffer frames to the output so you are always lagging behind by several frames, usually this must be turned off for competitve gameplay because it is a high contributing factor towards mouse lag.
Solution: Turn v-sync off.

4. Post-processing - Dust 514 definitely utilizes post-processing... look at the edges of polygons, the game definitely has some sort of sharpening filter going on, or maybe something else. Like v-syncs, post-processing adds buffer frames that will contribute to lag.
Solution: Turn it off.

5. Framerate smoothing - turn it off. Wait a minute, didn't you just say you want a smooth framerate? Yes, but the "framerate smoothing" feature adds lag to the game. CCP you will need to achieve a more consistent framerate with other means.
Solution: Turn it off.

6. In Unreal Engine, "[...] mouse is done through the UI (scaleform) and not using a hardware cursor like most games. this makes it FPS-dependant so if the game runs slow the mouse runs slow too." (Source) "Since the crappy unreal engine 3 (yes I went there) doesn't have hardware mouse support, you'll see the response time of the mouse cursor going down with frame rate." (Source) This is disappointing. This means we will never see the day of having raw input. Dust is crippled by the Unreal Engine.
Solution: Maintain a good framerate and eliminate any framerate drops or fluctuations. Personally I think 24 fps is a good compromise - it is not hard to maintain an all-time 24fps (Dust is not far from that level of performance despite the fps drops) and 24fps looks somewhat acceptable to the human eye, although a bit slow and definitely cannot be compared with 60fps gaming.

7. Mouse smoothing - it adds buffers to your input (aka lag) so turn it off.
Solution: Turn it off.

8. Mouse acceleration - it destroys linearity and make movements inconsistent. Turn it off.
Solution: Turn it off.

9. Speed limits - "Jump suits limiting turning speeds" completely destroys smaller twitch movements (usually small adjustments while aiming). Only someone who has never played competitive shooters would suggest such a stupid idea. TURN IT OFF.
Solution: Turn it off. Review your design philosophy, CCP, do you want this little RPG gimmick ruin the FPS gameplay? It is definitely not worth it.

10. "Enter OneFrameThreadLag.... what is this, you say? I'm not sure, but it has something to do with the mouse lag in Unreal 3 games. Go into the BaseEngine.ini file in the config files, find the variable OneFrameThreadLag, and set it to "False"." (Source) This seems highly relevant. Perhaps CCP forgot to turn it off when they release the game.
Solution: Turn it off. (Set it to false.)



TLDR: CCP you have too many things that lag the controls. These are all proven to contribute to lag in other games, and they are all well known to PC gamers who have access to those tweaks. Now that you know what is causing the lags, CCP you will need to simply eliminate them.

Remember, a game is about gameplay before pretty graphics. You game is sheet if it looks pretty but have laggy and jerky controls. Also, don't forget to fix your hitboxes and hit detection.

No response in this thread is sad, but what is even more disappointing is no aiming fix coming with 1.2 and a maybe on 1.3.....


Obviously aiming in an FPS isn't priority to CCP so why even have this thread as a sticky...

Weird aim assist behavior / acceleration / strange nonlinearity is still here.
I tried to aim ahead of enemy but the cursor seems to gravitate away from target.
Also I tried to orbit a teammate standing still, can't even keep my aim on him.
It actually feels like when the aim assist is turned off, it actually applies negative number to prevent you aiming.
(No it's not my aiming skill or my mouse or whatever I can promise you. It's the game.)
Using 1800dpi Razer Salmosa Korean version, PS3 cursor speed setting slow, aim assist off, in-game mouse sensitivity zero.
Non-linearity is the biggest enemy of muscle memory.
But I have probably said it too many times already.
Even DOOM 1 has better aiming.

I love that they are so concerned with keyboard and mouse when this is a console game.
Lets get the controller working well first guys they kb mouse players all have a controller they can pick up but the reverse is not always true.

Get rid of KBM. If you can't use a controller, stay in PC world or learn. Dust514 is a Playstation game after all is it not?