DUST Search - Sticky:Aiming and control system in general

Vrain Matari wrote:

CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:

Posting the following info on upcoming changes to aiming and control system on behalf of CCP Wolfman since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well.

Hi

As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates.

In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind.

Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

WHY AIMING GOT BORKED

Or my best guess, at any rate. And really, this is just about the DS3 although parts of it apply to the KB/M agrument also. This whole discussion assumes aim assist is off.

The fundamental critisism of aiming/control mechanics in Chromo was that the controller curve was not a curve but rather three flat lines pasted together(looking something like: \_/ ). The problem with this was that when you pushed right stick over too much aiming became twitchy at the transition from the deadzone to the sloped part of the controller curve. Adjusting deadzone width through the MOVE menu and the slope of the lines through the sensitivity setting in the controller menu helped a lot.

These adjustments made things bearable, and we all got used to it eventually. Problem was, the control mechanics were almost always mentioned in negative reviews of DUST. In Uprising, CCP has taken a serious swing at addressing those complaints. So although many forum warriors are crying out for a reversion to the old aiming/controller mechanics, that would be a bad idea. Uprising's mechanics need to be made to work, and work well. If that can't happen CCP will have to rewrite controller mechanics again.

But let's focus on Uprising's mechanics as they stand.

I believe the only real change CCP made was to add rotation acceleration for mercs. This adds realism but also is supposed to make fine adjustment a lot smoother, and when implemented correctly it does. If CCP got the physics right then the acceleration applies symetrically to speeding up and slowing down. Tbh i have not yet tested whether the deceleration is in effect and implemented properly, will tonight.

But the acceleration/deceleration is not the problem.

The problem is still the controller curve, and the reason most likely is that CCP did not change the curve in any significant way. It still has abrupt transitions, and is probably exactly what we had in Chromo. You can see this transition in your merc quarters or better yet out in the field. Just very slowly push the right thumbstick over and start to rotate - keep going and you'll eventually see the abrupt transision to a higher rotation speed. This is the problem. Because we're pushing the stick over slowly we know that the transition to highr speed rotation is not being caused by acceleration, but rather by the controller curve.

When you compound this abrupt control curve transition with the rotation acceleration, things become very hard to control and predict and presto! - 3 clip gunfights.

Edit: One last thing.

Devs, i love you guys - and i'm not just sayin' that 'cause i'm drunk, either.

And i really hate to say i told you so, but i told you so:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=571299#post571299

Noobs. Twisted

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)

CCP Cmdr Wang C C P C C P Alliance 1923	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:29:00 - [1] - Quote Posting the following info on upcoming changes to aiming and control system on behalf of CCP Wolfman since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well. Hi As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates. In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind. Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible. Cheers CCP Wolfman

ANON Illuminati A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 31	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:59:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: Posting the following info on upcoming changes to aiming and control system on behalf of CCP Wolfman since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well. Hi As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates. In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind. Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible. Cheers CCP Wolfman what about the sony controllers? because to be honest and i mean no disrespect the new movement system and iron sights completly blow. in chromosome they were perfect and im sure many will agree but what are the odds of getting that back to the way it was?
Medic 1879 The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 273	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:19:00 - [3] - Quote What about the fact that I aim my MD at someone fire and the smoke tracer hits them dead on but I infact miss because the explosion lands about 5m further away than where the tracer does?
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 88	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:30:00 - [4] - Quote 1. Turning limit. WHY? this is an FPS, not an RPG, I understand you guys have put in the whole turning limit to mimic the orbit/tracking mechnism in EVE so that heavies will "turn slower"... but you have stepped out of your line. The moment you touch basic things like aiming speed, you have stepped on the toes of the FPS players and into the boundary of "too much". This is an FPS first, don't turn it into an "RPG". Suggestion: (strongly suggested) abandon the whole concept of "turning speed limits". Alternate suggestion: (something you could do if you have the time) have two "cursors", one is without speed limit and will move the camera without delay, but there will be a separate crosshair that controls the gun aim (this will also affect the gun model) will slowly "catch up" within its speed limit to where you are looking at (the first cursor). This way you get to preserve your game design concepts (slow turning for heavies/turrets) but won't make the game feel laggy. TLDR: control->camera without speed limit, but the gun aim will follow with their own limits. (so if you turn very quickly 180 degree, your camera will turn very quickly without any speed limit, but you will see your gun turning slowly to catch up. If you fire within this catch up period, you will effectively see the gun spraying bullets along a trail as it tries to go to the centre of the camera. 2. Mouse control simulating joystick - just don't. Mouse users need raw input. Period. This should be the benchmark you guys should aim to achieve. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckv95eHdzTY My point is that you need the LEAST amount of filters/smoothing/whatever be applied to your input. We want RAW input to camera control, nothing more. This should be a top priority in your game design because this is what allows the FPS skill game to be present in your space MMORPGFPS. You don't mess with the basic FPS mechanics. The control input to output should be perfectly linear (no acceleration, no smoothing) because this is where the skill game is at. 3. Framerate / performance issue. This influences the aiming. Fix this ASAP. First you need a high framerate. Secondly you need a consistent framerate. 4. Hitboxes detection. Nothing I can add to, just fix it. How can it be messed up in the first place?
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 88	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:35:00 - [5] - Quote Also I suggest you publicize the formula you are using to calculate smoothing or turning limits. Also I need to ask, how can this be messed up in the first place. This aiming thing sounds like it should be the very first exercise anyone learning to code an FPS would do. How can this be messed up?
General John Ripper ROGUE SPADES EoN. 148	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:43:00 - [6] - Quote So does this mean that if I want to start enjoying the game, that I have to use a mouse until the Sony Controllers get their fix? Do you have a ETA on the Sony Controller fix? that is the controller most players use anyways.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 92	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:44:00 - [7] - Quote "In this hotix" ? Meaning the one that just rolled out or the one coming next DT ?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 92	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:47:00 - [8] - Quote General John Ripper wrote: So does this mean that if I want to start enjoying the game, that I have to use a mouse until the Sony Controllers get their fix? Do you have a ETA on the Sony Controller fix? that is the controller most players use anyways. Im guessing the DS3 is experiencing problems because of the restrictions they are putting on KB/M values this was the case in Unreal tournament 3...
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 89	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:48:00 - [9] - Quote edit- **** meant to edit
Skywalker83 GamersForChrist 0	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:51:00 - [10] - Quote My problem with the new mechanics is the fact that it is very difficult to stay on target. Even when I adjust the sensitivity it just does not work for me. I play with the ps3 controller and I really liked the feel from the old build. hit detection is off also and when both of the problems are combined it really makes for a bad experience and kinda turns me away from the game. Why not just reset the controls back to the old build for now and then if you feel that changes need to be made start from there instead of working on the controls from the uprising settings. Maybe I am wrong but I think people will like that better than what we have now.

General John Ripper ROGUE SPADES EoN. 148	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:58:00 - [11] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: General John Ripper wrote: So does this mean that if I want to start enjoying the game, that I have to use a mouse until the Sony Controllers get their fix? Do you have a ETA on the Sony Controller fix? that is the controller most players use anyways. Im guessing the DS3 is experiencing problems because of the restrictions they are putting on KB/M values this was the case in Unreal tournament 3... Maybe your right. The servers have just gone live a moment ago so I plan to try out both DS3 and Mouse and see what kind of differences I feel.
DJINN serious issues Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 10	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:08:00 - [12] - Quote Come on guys. Try to play other FPS games on computer or PS3 over the weekend. Wolfman I'll send you a pack of beer if I'm wrong on this. Your accelleration on the Mouse and DS3 is backwards. It's that simple. Snippet from my other post: Take a mouse. Try to make fine movements with sensitivity at 100. Nearly impossible. Now slowly move your mouse from one side of the pad from the other. You'll do a number of 360's. Now try again but much faster this time. You will notice the number of 360's drop. No wonder no one can aim or GTFO. edit This is the source of the perceived "input lag" it's not lag at all, just backwards accelleration. edit Take DS3. Try to make fine turns from say 0-60% range on the analog stick. You notice the turn speed is pretty constant. You have to move your finger only MMs to make fine movement. That is hard to do. Now snap from 0-100%. You can visually see you turn slow for about a second or so before the accelleration kicks in. In reality you want that second or so to ramp up in between 0-60% so you can make that fine aim. Then you want the 60-100% range snap to speed instantly. Now you can GTFO. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74613&p=11 EDIT forgot to add that the hotfix didn't fix the issue. Not even sure it masked it. I give up until the next input hotfix.
Deranged Disaster Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 168	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:08:00 - [13] - Quote The mouse should have raw input. It is pointless to even try and balance the KBM with the DS3, you will only ruin it. Also, deadzones should just go to eliminate the input lag. Input lag is a huge deal to FPS games because it can completely throw off your aim. And when I say completely I mean completely. I have also noticed that the move controller sensitivity effects the KBM sensitivity. Some sensitivity values on the KBM are broken but right now the only one I can remember is 20, it made me feel like I had turned up the sensitivity at 200.
DJINN serious issues Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 10	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:11:00 - [14] - Quote Deranged Disaster wrote: The mouse should have raw input. It is pointless to even try and balance the KBM with the DS3, you will only ruin it. Also, deadzones should just go to eliminate the input lag. Input lag is a huge deal to FPS games because it can completely throw off your aim. And when I say completely I mean completely. I have also noticed that the move controller sensitivity effects the KBM sensitivity. Some sensitivity values on the KBM are broken but right now the only one I can remember is 20, it made me feel like I had turned up the sensitivity at 200. It has nothing to do with raw input. Read my post. Dead zone has nothing to do with the messed up DS3 or Mouse inputs.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 92	Posted - 2013.05.10 12:24:00 - [15] - Quote DJINN serious issues wrote: Come on guys. Try to play other FPS games on computer or PS3 over the weekend. Wolfman I'll send you a pack of beer if I'm wrong on this. Your accelleration on the Mouse and DS3 is backwards. It's that simple. Snippet from my other post: Take a mouse. Try to make fine movements with sensitivity at 100. Nearly impossible. Now slowly move your mouse from one side of the pad from the other. You'll do a number of 360's. Now try again but much faster this time. You will notice the number of 360's drop. No wonder no one can aim or GTFO. edit This is the source of the perceived "input lag" it's not lag at all, just backwards accelleration. edit Take DS3. Try to make fine turns from say 0-60% range on the analog stick. You notice the turn speed is pretty constant. You have to move your finger only MMs to make fine movement. That is hard to do. Now snap from 0-100%. You can visually see you turn slow for about a second or so before the accelleration kicks in. In reality you want that second or so to ramp up in between 0-60% so you can make that fine aim. Then you want the 60-100% range snap to speed instantly. Now you can GTFO. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74613&p=11 EDIT forgot to add that the hotfix didn't fix the issue. Not even sure it masked it. I give up until the next input hotfix. Just played a skirmish and im not sure if "this hotfix" even rolled out on the last DT, it still feels wonky as hell in Close Quarters combat still... Could we at least get a conformation if this went through or is it coming on the next DT ?
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 139	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:03:00 - [16] - Quote I know it doesn't have to do with the mouse, but it does have to do with something similar. Turning acceleration for regular controllers needs an option to be turned off. This is in fact what is causing so many headaches for a majority of players. Some may like turning acceleration, but others want consistency in their movement at all times.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 222	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:07:00 - [17] - Quote Quote: The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). Ive got an idea, maybe like make them identical, then they are fixed ? Just tried it, adjusting from 20 ingame sense to 30 is like x200 Ive reset my mouse back to its chromosone values and i cannot track a moving target body, before Uprising i could track the head of a moving target. Ive tried 1k DPI, 1.5, 2 and from 2.5k upward things get really awkward and i still had to adjust seperate DPI values for each axis or i would be aiming in a oval instead of a circle. I dont get it, what was wrong with chromosone ?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 92	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:15:00 - [18] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). Ive got an idea, maybe like make them identical, then they are fixed ? Just tried it, adjusting from 20 ingame sense to 30 is like x200 Ive reset my mouse back to its chromosone values and i cannot track a moving target body, before Uprising i could track the head of a moving target. Ive tried 1k DPI, 1.5, 2 and from 2.5k upward things get really awkward and i still had to adjust seperate DPI values for each axis or i would be aiming in a oval instead of a circle. I dont get it, what was wrong with chromosone ? Edit: seriously why is Sense 20 more sensetive then 40,50,60,70,80,90,100????????? Exactly this is pretty ridiculous, same ole ****, Ive reduced my sensitivity to 30 from 40 to try to control the inconsistent tracking at close range and im all over the place.....
hydraSlav's Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 102	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:43:00 - [19] - Quote I am little confused, has the hotfix happened already?
Sponglyboy Squaredoo Not Guilty EoN. 24	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:47:00 - [20] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: "In this hotix" ? Meaning the one that just rolled out or the one coming next DT ? Fresh out the oven

Sponglyboy Squaredoo Not Guilty EoN. 24	Posted - 2013.05.10 13:49:00 - [21] - Quote Shouldn't you guys be worring about the PS3 controller first? Since we're are in fact playing on a Playstation which makes it safe to say the majority of Dust players are using PS3 Controllers rather than Keyboard & Mouse. Just a way to satisfy more people, quicker.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 223	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:06:00 - [22] - Quote Quote: As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates. Yeah we noticed .....tried the update, tried every setting my fully adjustable mouse can take and i cannot track, hit or keep on target. Quote: In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind. I have tried every DPI setting from 100 up to 6400, combined with polling rates of 125 (ridiculous btw), 500 and 1000. And i keep getting the above, for some reason when i run around with no targets my aim feels, ok ....the moment i try to track something on foot somone takes over my mouse controls and i seem to either overshoot my targets or track just behind them. Quote: Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible. Different values, same crap aiming. I used to play on Sensitivity of 100, with a DPI of 1400 and a poling rate of 500 and it was perfect (chromosone), albeit slow vs what i am used to on the pc, but it was manageble. If i apply these same settings now, and i move my mouse 1 inch, i have done a 360 degree turn but without actually being able to control it, this coming from someone who normally uses less then 1 inch mousemat for all my movement, its horrible. And if you don't believe i can actually track my targets watch this But now on Dust i cannot track the side of a barn that's standing still. I give up, i am spend trying to find a setting that works for the last 5 friggin days, chromosone was fine, don't fix what isnt broke. A question: What did change vs Chromosone ? i doubt it were just "some" values that got changed around ? Because in another game i can adapts if i change sensitivity settings within a few games played, right now i cant adapt even if you gave me a week....oh wait i already used up that week...trying ...and failing.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 92	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:12:00 - [23] - Quote Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: Shouldn't you guys be worring about the PS3 controller first? Since we're are in fact playing on a Playstation which makes it safe to say the majority of Dust players are using PS3 Controllers rather than Keyboard & Mouse. Just a way to satisfy more people, quicker. Google. Unreal Tournament 3 mouse and keyboard balancing, they had these same issues when they tried to balance out the mouse by adding a turnspeed/deadzone of sorts (not sure what the technical name for it is since im not a dev) it also screws with the DS3 because your precision movements aren't so precise anymore because of the certain acceleration/deceleration that is working to try to adjust the mouse speed... ( I could be totally wrong but from what ive read the PS3 can't determine settings based on inputs) So settings are universal.. I can also 100% verify if the "Aim fix" was implemented today it didn't do anything to improve on the current system... I have tried increasing DPI decreasing DPI changing the mouse speed via the ps3 everything and my precise movements turn into long strides when aiming left and right..... Mark Rein Epic Gmes wrote: YES we are supporting keyboard and mouse in Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3. He is confident we are doing it in a way that will be balanced without feeling "gimped" for either side. They are trying to balance something that not to many people complained about in Chromosone which in place is hurting the majority of folks who didn't complain about it...
Brigitte Newt Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:50:00 - [24] - Quote I don't understand why did you have to change the way controls are working. Aiming, movement, tracking - everything was perfect in Chromosome. Just give us back that and lets get over with.... I don't wanna play a game where I have to constantly fight with my mouse and not the actual opponent.
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 93	Posted - 2013.05.10 14:56:00 - [25] - Quote CCP please explain what happens in the control system what filters do you use and we will decide which ones are bad okay?
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 512	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:23:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: Posting the following info on upcoming changes to aiming and control system on behalf of CCP Wolfman since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well. Hi As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates. In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind. Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible. Cheers CCP Wolfman WHY AIMING GOT BORKED Or my best guess, at any rate. And really, this is just about the DS3 although parts of it apply to the KB/M agrument also. Also, this whole discussion assumes aim assist is off. The fundamental critisism of aiming/control mechanics in Chromo was that the controller curve was not a curve but rather three flat lines pasted together(looking something like: \_/ ). The problem with this was that when you pushed right stick over too much aiming became twitchy at the transition from the deadzone to the sloped part of the controller curve. Adjusting deadzone width through the MOVE menu and the slope of the lines through the sensitivity setting in the controller menu helped a lot. These adjustments made things bearable, and we all got used to it eventually. Problem was, the control mechanics were almost always mentioned in negative reviews of DUST. In Uprising, CCP has taken a serious swing at addressing those complaints. So although many forum warriors are crying out for a reversion to the old aiming/controller mechanics, that would be a bad idea. Uprising's mechanics need to be made to work, and work well. If that can't happen CCP will have to rewrite controller mechanics again. But let's focus on Uprising's mechanics as they stand. I believe the only real change CCP made was to add rotation acceleration for mercs. This adds realism but also is supposed to make fine adjustment a lot smoother, and when implemented correctly it does. If CCP got the physics right then the acceleration applies symetrically to speeding up and slowing down. Tbh i have not yet tested whether the decceleration is in effect and implemented properly, will tonight. But the acceleration/decceleration is not the problem. The problem is still the controller curve, and the reason most likely is that CCP did not change the curve in any significant way. It still has abrupt transitions, and is probably exactly what we had in Chromo. You can see this transition in your merc quarters or better yet out in the field. Just very slowly push the right thumbstick over and start to rotate - keep going and you'll eventually see the abrupt transision to a higher rotation speed. This is the problem. Because we're pushing the stick over slowly we know that the transition to highr speed rotation is not being caused by accelertation, but rather by the controller curve. When you compound this abrupt control curve transition with the rotation acceleration, things become very hard to control and predict and presto! - 3 clip gunfights.
Kousuke Tsuda DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:54:00 - [27] - Quote ANON Illuminati wrote: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: Posting the following info on upcoming changes to aiming and control system on behalf of CCP Wolfman since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well. Hi As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates. In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind. Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible. Cheers CCP Wolfman what about the sony controllers? because to be honest and i mean no disrespect the new movement system and iron sights completly blow. in chromosome they were perfect and im sure many will agree but what are the odds of getting that back to the way it was? What the heck are you talking about? The controller aiming lag in the chromosome build was horrible. Set your X sensitivity to 80 and its perfectly fine. The mouse is what needs work!
Rei Shepard Spectre II 229	Posted - 2013.05.10 15:56:00 - [28] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: Posting the following info on upcoming changes to aiming and control system on behalf of CCP Wolfman since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well. Hi As IGÇÖm sure youGÇÖre aware there have been some issues with the controls. WeGÇÖve been looking in to them and have identified some problems and starting with the mouse we are making some updates. In this hotfix we have made changes to the input settings on the mouse which should improve the smoothness and fine aiming. The new values are very similar to those in Chromosome (though not identical). One thing to note is that the DPI settings on your mouse can make a significant difference to how this feels so please keep that in mind. Your feedback on how this compares to the previous values will be very important so please include your settings with any feedback you give if possible. Cheers CCP Wolfman WHY AIMING GOT BORKED Or my best guess, at any rate. And really, this is just about the DS3 although parts of it apply to the KB/M agrument also. This whole discussion assumes aim assist is off. The fundamental critisism of aiming/control mechanics in Chromo was that the controller curve was not a curve but rather three flat lines pasted together(looking something like: \_/ ). The problem with this was that when you pushed right stick over too much aiming became twitchy at the transition from the deadzone to the sloped part of the controller curve. Adjusting deadzone width through the MOVE menu and the slope of the lines through the sensitivity setting in the controller menu helped a lot. These adjustments made things bearable, and we all got used to it eventually. Problem was, the control mechanics were almost always mentioned in negative reviews of DUST. In Uprising, CCP has taken a serious swing at addressing those complaints. So although many forum warriors are crying out for a reversion to the old aiming/controller mechanics, that would be a bad idea. Uprising's mechanics need to be made to work, and work well. If that can't happen CCP will have to rewrite controller mechanics again. But let's focus on Uprising's mechanics as they stand. I believe the only real change CCP made was to add rotation acceleration for mercs. This adds realism but also is supposed to make fine adjustment a lot smoother, and when implemented correctly it does. If CCP got the physics right then the acceleration applies symetrically to speeding up and slowing down. Tbh i have not yet tested whether the deceleration is in effect and implemented properly, will tonight. But the acceleration/deceleration is not the problem. The problem is still the controller curve, and the reason most likely is that CCP did not change the curve in any significant way. It still has abrupt transitions, and is probably exactly what we had in Chromo. You can see this transition in your merc quarters or better yet out in the field. Just very slowly push the right thumbstick over and start to rotate - keep going and you'll eventually see the abrupt transision to a higher rotation speed. This is the problem. Because we're pushing the stick over slowly we know that the transition to highr speed rotation is not being caused by acceleration, but rather by the controller curve. When you compound this abrupt control curve transition with the rotation acceleration, things become very hard to control and predict and presto! - 3 clip gunfights. Edit: One last thing. Devs, i love you guys - and i'm not just sayin' that 'cause i'm drunk, either. And i really hate to say i told you so, but i told you so: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=571299#post571299 Noobs. I really dont see what Ds3 controlls got to do with KB/M controls other then we are playing the same game but when i swap to DS3 controlls trough an Eagle Eye controller (KB/M Converter into a DS3) i can aim better then when i use the native KB/M setup. I am not going to come in your thread about what you need, because i dont know, dont tell us what we need, k ?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 92	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:04:00 - [29] - Quote @Rei Shepard It seems to be all relative, so why wouldn't DS3 and kb/m users share the same thread.. They want us to be on an even playing field right.. So dont he an ass . . K. ?
Jebus McKing DUST University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:09:00 - [30] - Quote M/KB user here. After today's patch aiming got a lot better. It is on the same level as it was in Chromosome I'd say, and that's good enough for me. I'm using a Razer Diamondback 3G, sensitivity 80, smoothing off, aim assist off. Thanks for this fix, CCP!



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