DUST Search - Sticky:Aiming and control system in general

Rei Shepard wrote:

Parson Atreides wrote:

Still waiting on the fix, or news of it, because this isn't getting better on its own.

Seeing that almost noone posts in this thread anymore most of the KBM users have either given up on a fix or quit, i havent played a single match in the last 2 weeks and to think i was sick of chromosone and couldnt wait for Uprising to hit the updater.

Wish i knew back then what i know now.

I played Dust yesterday from a friends console that is actually 6 months older then my PS3, its also a phat version but with a smaller drive, he bought it when it hit the stores, so its most likely a Gen1.

He always said that he does not have the aiming issues i keep having and yesterday tried playing on his console and he is right, theres no input lag on his machine or any framerate issues my ps3 keeps having.

I am not saying the aiming is perfect and smooth like a PC shooter, it isnt but the millisecond overaim and wait period before the cursor moves isnt there, it feels allot less rubbery.

Might wanna look into that CCP that certain machine versions run the game diffrently.

ps: ive formatted my ps3 multiple times and rebuild its database more then enough to know thats not the issue, it seems to be some ps3's are faster.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Rei Shepard Spectre II 341	Posted - 2013.06.07 13:34:00 - [331] - Quote Quote: So I got fed up with a guy nailing me with 100% accuracy using a Railgun today.. Watched the way the gun moved, knew it was a KBM.. You know why its so precise ? It takes your entire desk to turn 1 inch in those :p Reason i never try one, so unless someone is standing very very still, you cannot keep up tracking him picking up sliding and then picking up the mouse again just to try and aim at something. Quote: I have to say, it was not what I was expecting. Precise aiming is there, but it's so.. Unresponsive.. Quick spins of the mouse take have a delay before they take traction(and they don't even get far), but the tiniest twitch of my hand caused my aim to shift around. And don't even get me started on the key bindings.. What a headache.. I actually found myself reaching for the DS3 when I needed to do fittings, because I the bindings weren't clear, and the radial menu to outfit a suit was poor at beast. Theres just no response at all aaaand then it flies, then it stops, you re-adjust aim and no go, brain goes MOAR power to the mouse! and it flies again. They should have left it like chromosone, it worked half decent, now its meh ....
gbh08 74656d70 2	Posted - 2013.06.07 14:54:00 - [332] - Quote Another one thats just had enough, 3 weeks and no improvements is beyond a joke, and this is coming from someone that plays haven and hearth lol Im not even logging in to afk, player count is clearly dropping, and rightly so, maybe a lack of players will spark some interest from ccp quicker than our questioning and complaints
Rei Shepard Spectre II 342	Posted - 2013.06.09 19:38:00 - [333] - Quote gbh08 wrote: Another one thats just had enough, 3 weeks and no improvements is beyond a joke, and this is coming from someone that plays haven and hearth lol Im not even logging in to afk, player count is clearly dropping, and rightly so, maybe a lack of players will spark some interest from ccp quicker than our questioning and complaints Ive been back in APB R this weekend and after my first hour in i already had 3 Hackusations going from my overly accurate sniper shots in close quarter combat, but damn am i rusty...but God ive missed those Tears... After a weekend of playtime, ive refilled my 4 month old Dust filled Tear-Tank....just Delicious pure none violated 100 fps and raw aiming feel, nothing beats that, though my opponents prolly not feel the same :)
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 390	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:19:00 - [334] - Quote Still waiting on the fix, or news of it, because this isn't getting better on its own.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 342	Posted - 2013.06.13 11:09:00 - [335] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Still waiting on the fix, or news of it, because this isn't getting better on its own. Seeing that almost noone posts in this thread anymore most of the KBM users have either given up on a fix or quit, i havent played a single match in the last 2 weeks and to think i was sick of chromosone and couldnt wait for Uprising to hit the updater. Wish i knew back then what i know now.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 225	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:19:00 - [336] - Quote At the E3 presentation they mentioned they are still working on things like aiming, movement, and controls. I'm not sure if any of these improvements are coming with Uprising 1.2, but I wouldn't expect anything regarding aiming before early July when 1.2 hits.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 192	Posted - 2013.06.14 19:34:00 - [337] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Still waiting on the fix, or news of it, because this isn't getting better on its own. Seeing that almost noone posts in this thread anymore most of the KBM users have either given up on a fix or quit, i havent played a single match in the last 2 weeks and to think i was sick of chromosone and couldnt wait for Uprising to hit the updater. Wish i knew back then what i know now. CCP Wolfman can you confirm or deny a fix will be bundled with 1.2 ?
Beeeees KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2013.06.15 23:49:00 - [338] - Quote EDIT: Nevermind Waiting
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 197	Posted - 2013.06.16 07:52:00 - [339] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: So I got fed up with a guy nailing me with 100% accuracy using a Railgun today.. Watched the way the gun moved, knew it was a KBM.. I'm a DS3 user, but as I said I was fed up. So, I grabbed my KB/M and plugged it in to give it a go.. I have to say, it was not what I was expecting. Precise aiming is there, but it's so.. Unresponsive.. Quick spins of the mouse take have a delay before they take traction(and they don't even get far), but the tiniest twitch of my hand caused my aim to shift around. And don't even get me started on the key bindings.. What a headache.. I actually found myself reaching for the DS3 when I needed to do fittings, because I the bindings weren't clear, and the radial menu to outfit a suit was poor at beast. Conclusion: Both of Dust's control systems need dire help. What a shame :( Take off mouse smoothing and set your mouse pointer speed in the dashboard to high, along with in game sensitivity to max. That should help.
PlanetSide2 F2PonPS4 Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.17 16:33:00 - [340] - Quote My in depth report

Rei Shepard Spectre II 344	Posted - 2013.06.18 06:13:00 - [341] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Still waiting on the fix, or news of it, because this isn't getting better on its own. Seeing that almost noone posts in this thread anymore most of the KBM users have either given up on a fix or quit, i havent played a single match in the last 2 weeks and to think i was sick of chromosone and couldnt wait for Uprising to hit the updater. Wish i knew back then what i know now. I played Dust yesterday from a friends console that is actually 6 months older then my PS3, its also a phat version but with a smaller drive, he bought it when it hit the stores, so its most likely a Gen1. He always said that he does not have the aiming issues i keep having and yesterday tried playing on his console and he is right, theres no input lag on his machine or any framerate issues my ps3 keeps having. I am not saying the aiming is perfect and smooth like a PC shooter, it isnt but the millisecond overaim and wait period before the cursor moves isnt there, it feels allot less rubbery. Might wanna look into that CCP that certain machine versions run the game diffrently. ps: ive formatted my ps3 multiple times and rebuild its database more then enough to know thats not the issue, it seems to be some ps3's are faster.
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q Intara Direct Action Caldari State 143	Posted - 2013.06.18 10:49:00 - [342] - Quote Came back to see if aiming is fixed CCP did just what I expected: Nothing CCP shouldn't really get into first person shooters if they can't even code the aiming right (After closed beta, open beta, and more than a month into release). Rei Shepard - your friends PS3, same version firmware? Same mouse? I suspect it has something to do with the USB ports
Rei Shepard Spectre II 344	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:02:00 - [343] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: Rei Shepard - your friends PS3, same version firmware? Same mouse? I suspect it has something to do with the USB ports He uses a Cheap Mouse, came with his laptop, isnt the firmware auto updated, so always the same at all times ? Unless you hack your console (wich it isnt). If i knew that buying a new console fixed the rubbery effect i get, idd buy one in a heartbeat.
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q Intara Direct Action Caldari State 144	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:36:00 - [344] - Quote I don't think the PS3 firmware is auto-updated, is it? But I think that might be irrelevant. Here is something more interesting: you said your friend were using a cheap mouse which were fine. This is not something new (cheap mouses performs better in Dust than expensive mouses). I think the mouse lag must be partially caused by a complex USB problem: polling rate. The PS3 supports 1000hz polling but the sixaxis controller operates at 100hz. (sauce) Now imagine different mouses with different rates are converted into a virtual sixaxis 100hz in order for the game to react accordingly. A cheap mouse with slow poll rate (perhaps 125hz?) might actually synchronize better with the 100hz virtual joystick (that the game reads) better than a 500hz or 1000hz mouse. I don't know the technical details but I wonder if the game would "drop packets" in the translation of mouse to virtual joystick. Imagine if some of the reports are dropped by the game if you are using an expensive 1000hz mouse, the result could be choppy movements and inconsistent speeds etc. Sounds familiar? Now I must admit I know little about the actual technicalities of USBs or how Dust utilizes the USB ports, so these are all speculations. Some interesting stuff I just came across: (semi-relevant) http://blog.gimx.fr/ http://www.gamepadproxy.com/ http://shoryuken.com/2012/01/18/godlike-controls-responds-to-cthulhu-lag-issues-vs-eightarc-fusion/ http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/176867/usb-lag-does-it-exist-with-the-xbox-360-and-or-the-ps3 ... In other news, aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2. LOL CCP learn to FPS please
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q Intara Direct Action Caldari State 152	Posted - 2013.06.18 17:28:00 - [345] - Quote I'm so gonna try this
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q Intara Direct Action Caldari State 154	Posted - 2013.06.18 19:40:00 - [346] - Quote Also, isn't funny that CCP has abandoned this thread already. Weeks without any update, it's like they have given up.
Nerian Quasar D.E.D.SPACE D.E.D.COMMAND 5	Posted - 2013.06.19 05:03:00 - [347] - Quote Dear CCP. Please email me when you have done something about this, cause I'm sick and tired of checking this thread frequently in the hopes that a DEV has mentioned something worth knowing [or anything at all]... Seriously this is not like you guys, not for Eve anyway. I understand that your priority is always Eve and how you cherish that Game, I do aswell, but when you decide to release a 2nd Game, the Members of it's community and the Game itself should get equal love. Other option is, completely stop ALL development for Dust on the PS3, me and alot of others would most likely be happy for a re-release of the Game on the PS4 which would hopefully solve some issues having a system you can be more flexible that you can work with. Your faithfully, a disappointed Mercenary...
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q Intara Direct Action Caldari State 169	Posted - 2013.06.19 07:18:00 - [348] - Quote CCP hasn't got much time left
Rei Shepard Spectre II 344	Posted - 2013.06.20 09:25:00 - [349] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: I'm so gonna try this What does that actually do ?
gbh08 74656d70 30	Posted - 2013.06.20 12:26:00 - [350] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: I'm so gonna try this What does that actually do ? Sends the data from your pc peripherals to ps3 over usb or bluetooth, basicly you can control your ps3 and play all games via k\b & mouse Main Page More Info Interesting, nice find 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q!

gbh08 74656d70 30	Posted - 2013.06.20 12:30:00 - [351] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Still waiting on the fix, or news of it, because this isn't getting better on its own. Seeing that almost noone posts in this thread anymore most of the KBM users have either given up on a fix or quit, i havent played a single match in the last 2 weeks and to think i was sick of chromosone and couldnt wait for Uprising to hit the updater. Wish i knew back then what i know now. I played Dust yesterday from a friends console that is actually 6 months older then my PS3, its also a phat version but with a smaller drive, he bought it when it hit the stores, so its most likely a Gen1. He always said that he does not have the aiming issues i keep having and yesterday tried playing on his console and he is right, theres no input lag on his machine or any framerate issues my ps3 keeps having. I am not saying the aiming is perfect and smooth like a PC shooter, it isnt but the millisecond overaim and wait period before the cursor moves isnt there, it feels allot less rubbery. Might wanna look into that CCP that certain machine versions run the game diffrently. ps: ive formatted my ps3 multiple times and rebuild its database more then enough to know thats not the issue, it seems to be some ps3's are faster. i've got a old phat 40gb ps3 from 2008, dead blu-ray drive, but im going to set it up and try it
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak3 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.06.20 12:59:00 - [352] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: I'm so gonna try this What does that actually do ? PC to PS3 input, adjustable like Eagle Eye, according to some users (from their forums) it is smoother than Eagle Eye, and perhaps allow better adjustments. Also it polls at 250hz which is higher than PS3 controller (100hz) and also perhaps mice connected directly (100hz?).
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak3 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.06.20 13:04:00 - [353] - Quote gbh08 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: I'm so gonna try this What does that actually do ? Sends the data from your pc peripherals to ps3 over usb or bluetooth, basicly you can control your ps3 and play all games via k\b & mouse Main Page More Info Interesting, nice find 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q! Thanks. I've ordered the parts, going to test it once I've got it and will post results. Works out cheaper than an Eagle Eye! Bare essential components (USB to serial board and USB development board) costed me about 12.50GBP. That is given if the thing works, or if I hadn't ordered the wrong parts.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 346	Posted - 2013.06.20 13:08:00 - [354] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak3 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4q wrote: I'm so gonna try this What does that actually do ? PC to PS3 input, adjustable like Eagle Eye, according to some users (from their forums) it is smoother than Eagle Eye, and perhaps allow better adjustments. Also it polls at 250hz which is higher than PS3 controller (100hz) and also perhaps mice connected directly (100hz?). I got one of those eagle eyes works better then native KBM, but lemme know how this works when you put one together.
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak3 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 30	Posted - 2013.06.20 22:01:00 - [355] - Quote This post is meant for CCP devs. Please forward to relevant parties. I was digging around the internets about mouse lags in Unreal Engine 3, and it seems that Dust 514 doesn't suffer from this problem alone. Here is a summary of contributing factors to lag, and their fixes: 1. Jumpy framerate - irregular framerates, sudden framerate drops, they all make it harder to aim (because your vision of motions is disrupted). Solution: A better and more responsive adaptive degradation to compensate framerate drops. Also see 3. 2. Data streaming - it means the game loads data while playing. Evident from the textures and polygons popping up. This loading contributes to performance issues and influences the framerate. Solution: Turn this off, or limit how much system resources it uses. 3. V-sync - PC FPS players will know this. V-syncs add buffer frames to the output so you are always lagging behind by several frames, usually this must be turned off for competitve gameplay because it is a high contributing factor towards mouse lag. Solution: Turn v-sync off. 4. Post-processing - Dust 514 definitely utilizes post-processing... look at the edges of polygons, the game definitely has some sort of sharpening filter going on, or maybe something else. Like v-syncs, post-processing adds buffer frames that will contribute to lag. Solution: Turn it off. 5. Framerate smoothing - turn it off. Wait a minute, didn't you just say you want a smooth framerate? Yes, but the "framerate smoothing" feature adds lag to the game. CCP you will need to achieve a more consistent framerate with other means. Solution: Turn it off. 6. In Unreal Engine, "[...] mouse is done through the UI (scaleform) and not using a hardware cursor like most games. this makes it FPS-dependant so if the game runs slow the mouse runs slow too." (Source) "Since the crappy unreal engine 3 (yes I went there) doesn't have hardware mouse support, you'll see the response time of the mouse cursor going down with frame rate." (Source) This is disappointing. This means we will never see the day of having raw input. Dust is crippled by the Unreal Engine. Solution: Maintain a good framerate and eliminate any framerate drops or fluctuations. Personally I think 24 fps is a good compromise - it is not hard to maintain an all-time 24fps (Dust is not far from that level of performance despite the fps drops) and 24fps looks somewhat acceptable to the human eye, although a bit slow and definitely cannot be compared with 60fps gaming. 7. Mouse smoothing - it adds buffers to your input (aka lag) so turn it off. Solution: Turn it off. 8. Mouse acceleration - it destroys linearity and make movements inconsistent. Turn it off. Solution: Turn it off. 9. Speed limits - "Jump suits limiting turning speeds" completely destroys smaller twitch movements (usually small adjustments while aiming). Only someone who has never played competitive shooters would suggest such a stupid idea. TURN IT OFF. Solution: Turn it off. Review your design philosophy, CCP, do you want this little RPG gimmick ruin the FPS gameplay? It is definitely not worth it. 10. "Enter OneFrameThreadLag.... what is this, you say? I'm not sure, but it has something to do with the mouse lag in Unreal 3 games. Go into the BaseEngine.ini file in the config files, find the variable OneFrameThreadLag, and set it to "False"." (Source) This seems highly relevant. Perhaps CCP forgot to turn it off when they release the game. Solution: Turn it off. (Set it to false.) TLDR: CCP you have too many things that lag the controls. These are all proven to contribute to lag in other games, and they are all well known to PC gamers who have access to those tweaks. Now that you know what is causing the lags, CCP you will need to simply eliminate them. Remember, a game is about gameplay before pretty graphics. You game is sheet if it looks pretty but have laggy and jerky controls. Also, don't forget to fix your hitboxes and hit detection.
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak3 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 35	Posted - 2013.06.20 22:25:00 - [356] - Quote Some more tweaks that you can do on your PS3: Quote: -Mouse accessory settings are set to the lowest speed possible (this is done in the Playstation 3 settings menu under accessories) -The MX 518 is set to 400dpi, the lowest range possible without drivers -The graphical post processing in UT3 is set to the lowest possible -Gore is set to the lowest setting possible -Mouse speed in UT3 is set to the fastest setting possible (Source)
Fredrikson Revel Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:28:00 - [357] - Quote Im runni g 480p and getting 30+ fps. Looks like a ps2 game though.
Nerian Quasar D.E.D.SPACE D.E.D.COMMAND 6	Posted - 2013.06.22 02:29:00 - [358] - Quote Fredrikson Revel wrote: Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets Not defending Dust on this matter, but I've played PS2, and I have to say, it was a extreme letdown from everything I read about it. In my Timezone, even when taking me straight to the action you see very little activity. PS2 has a really good concept just like Dust, but in my opinion they both need to be worked on.
Yani Sing Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.06.22 19:37:00 - [359] - Quote Nerian Quasar wrote: Fredrikson Revel wrote: Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets Not defending Dust on this matter, but I've played PS2, and I have to say, it was a extreme letdown from everything I read about it. In my Timezone, even when taking me straight to the action you see very little activity. PS2 has a really good concept just like Dust, but in my opinion they both need to be worked on. Pc is dead player base playstation nation is far more shootie than pc geeks, no issues come ps4 im sure.
LEOn Mendez Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.06.22 23:46:00 - [360] - Quote Seems to be getting worse every update. Someone help.



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