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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
112
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Posted - 2013.05.10 23:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
Get rid of the acceleration. PLEASE. |
Orion Vahid
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 23:49:00 -
[62] - Quote
COME ON. Revert the movement, aiming and all that to the last build. Just do it. You guys broke something that was perfectly fine and remove this "virtual joystick" crap. Mouse and keyboard have to be raw input. |
Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 23:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
Reverting the controls is not a good idea. They were serviceable in Chromosome, but nothing more than that. They need to move forward and just fix the system now once and for all. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4036
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 23:53:00 -
[64] - Quote
For the DS3 the aiming is feeling much better. Still adjusting though but I no longer feel like I am fighting the controller to get my kills anymore.
I would like to hear other people's thoughts on the DS. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
388
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 00:03:00 -
[65] - Quote
DS3 controls feel even more clunky then it did in the past builds. The aim acceleration / smoothing was way overdone and broken (inconsistent, changes when ADSing). |
Blind Nojoy
G I A N T EoN.
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 00:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
Non aim down sight feels a little better. ADS is still crap. Doesn't feel like any tweaking was done there at all. Feels like my gun barrel has a 50 pound wight hanging from the end when I try to aim. Played one match today. See you tomorrow. Will continue to check each day. If its still sh*tty after the 14th I can play other free games like Wolfenstein 3D or Corridor 7. Sh*t, Doom for iPhone has more precise controls than Dust at this point. |
Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 00:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
I hate to post this again, but since this seems to be the official thread I'm just wondering if anyone at CCP or the CPM can tell me whether these findings of mine for the DS3 are anywhere close to being right?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqMshc-A6HVHdHRKbjM1NG5NQ081Ml9sMDR2RVl4N0E#gid=0 |
SlR KNlGHT
TeamPlayers EoN.
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 01:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
Given how skill rewarding the aiming for the laser was, as opposed to what you've done to it now, it is a comedy of errors. I use lasers all last build but i can use them at all now. I know it was op but i felt it rewarded skillful aim the way it was and the heat build up damage needed mad tweaking or scraping. I am heavily spec'ed into lasers now, have no sp, lvl 1 assault rifle, and no desire to play this game to even get to the tacs or the burst to try them.
Before it was a tool of precision whereas it is now a guess work en devour--I cannot fathom why such changes would be enacted beyond a deliberate attack on player skill. This effectively makes the in-game battle not primarily against the enemy, but against the newly implement aiming interface. A blue light and irons? Are your in house testers afraid to voice themselves because this is simply outrageous. Why make a long range weapon with pinpoint accuracy (a psuedo-sniper rifle of sorts) and make it so you cant really see you target while firing easily?
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KrazyEyeKilla
Greek Death Squad
2
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:30:00 -
[69] - Quote
DS3 settings need to be looked at again. Needs to be reverted to previous build. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P C C P Alliance
343
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:10:00 -
[70] - Quote
Hi
We made changes to the mouse first because that appeared to have the more significant issue. The updated mouse sensitivity scale is now virtually the same as Chromosome. The only differences are a spike that existed at the end of the scale has been smoothed out and ADS speed is higher. We wanted to get these changes to you quickly so we could gauge the impact they would have before making further updates.
The rotation speed limitations that are applied to the different dropsuit classes do present issues for tuning control with the mouse and ensuring DS3 players donGÇÖt find themselves at a very significant disadvantage. The maximum settings for pitch and yaw are one of the areas we are currently looking at making further changes to. We are continuing to work with and test different settings for both DS3 and mouse and we will make further updates once we have tested them.
The feedback we have received has been very useful but also very varied, in some cases conflicting and in others confusing. We have been unable to replicate some of the issues (such as Move settings having an impact on the mouse which just shouldnGÇÖt be possible). Because of this we are also investigating the possibility that changes/problems outside of the control system itself are effecting the experience. More on that if we find anything.
One last thing, whether youGÇÖre providing constructive feedback or screaming in pure hatred please mention what control method youGÇÖre using. We really need to know that
CCP Wolfman |
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Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS.
18
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Posted - 2013.05.11 03:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
RAW input. |
bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Razer Naga at 50, smoothing off... ADS seems a lot better but CQC hip fire has a mind of its own ill move slightly right or left and it goes off in said direction but not at the same speed every time its like im trying to fight the inconsistent acceleration to get back to the target .. Not sure this makes sense but it actually strains the **** out of the wrist because im constantly fighting the acceleration/movement.. |
Citpaan Hacos
BetaMax. CRONOS.
42
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Posted - 2013.05.11 04:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:RAW input.
WITH YOUR MIND! |
DJINN serious issues
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
15
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Posted - 2013.05.11 06:29:00 -
[74] - Quote
You are a superstar.
CCP Wolfman wrote:Hi
The rotation speed limitations that are applied to the different dropsuit classes do present issues for tuning control with the mouse and ensuring DS3 players donGÇÖt find themselves at a very significant disadvantage. The maximum settings for pitch and yaw are one of the areas we are currently looking at making further changes to. We are continuing to work with and test different settings for both DS3 and mouse and we will make further updates once we have tested them.
So you really do change the speed based on drop suit?
CCP Wolfman wrote:
The feedback we have received has been very useful but also very varied, in some cases conflicting and in others confusing. We have been unable to replicate some of the issues (such as Move settings having an impact on the mouse which just shouldnGÇÖt be possible). Because of this we are also investigating the possibility that changes/problems outside of the control system itself are effecting the experience. More on that if we find anything.
I have yet to notice move settings make a difference for myself as well.
BUT... I think I know what is up. While my accelleration backwards idea isn't far off from the truth, I think I was looking too much from the mouse point of view. The turn speed cap made me think to try some different settings.... Now that I'm coming back to report, I looked at Sete Clifton's spreadsheet and he is bang on what I noticed. I think it is all in the turn speed cap and how high everyone likes their sensitivity to begin with.
With the controller I was using the 40% setting on X and Y. When I drop to say 10% the accelleration curve is much more noticable from little input to max input. As you increase the sensitivity, the initial turn rate increases but the final turnspeed never changes. So by tuning the sensitivity to get into the curve i was actually able to catch some kills on the DS3. The max turn speed on any suit is just too slow.
With the mouse I noticed a similar thing. I think from my earlier reports since I was running sensitivity at 100%, I got the reports of deceleration. I set my speed to where I feel comfortable but the aiming gets me screwed up cause the deceleration kicks in too fast. So a similar pattern emerges with the mouse sentivity as DS3. As I drop the sensitivity more and more, the deceleration becomes less pronounced and then eventually turns into acceleration. Only problem is that by the time you hit that point you need like 10 feet of mouse pad to aim within your FOV.
So ditch/ramp up the max turn speed considerably and you will probably get some favourable results? |
Weapon Kaiser
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 06:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Citpaan Hacos wrote:Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:RAW input. WITH YOUR MIND!
Just let me plug something into my arm for "RAW" brain signal input |
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
97
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 07:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
That's it, I quit.
Dust is dead, good bye.
1. Different suits gives you different speed limit - this is NOT what an fps should behave. This has became a first person MMORPG. With this "mechanism" in place, the game will never be skill based, and the control will NEVER be fixed because of how speed limits works. With speed limits on, you cannot even twitch shoot enemies even within a small angle. Your reaction time is not a useful skill anymore.
Dust is now confirmed to be an RPG and not a shooter. The "first person shooter" experience I am looking for is DEAD.
2. So you basically confirmed the CCP logic "mouse is too good for FPS (duh) so we nerfed it! :D ".
Since I am a mouse user, I can not put up with non-sense like this.
Seriously can nobody see how stupid it sounds?
Good bye Dust, it was good while it lasted. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
392
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 08:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
Sete Clifton wrote:Reverting the controls is not a good idea. They were serviceable in Chromosome, but nothing more than that. They need to move forward and just fix the system now once and for all.
Well they aren't gonna move anything forward with this virtual joystick garbage.
Give us raw input. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
243
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 08:11:00 -
[78] - Quote
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q wrote:That's it, I quit.
Dust is dead, good bye.
1. Different suits gives you different speed limit - this is NOT what an fps should behave. This has became a first person MMORPG. With this "mechanism" in place, the game will never be skill based, and the control will NEVER be fixed because of how speed limits works. With speed limits on, you cannot even twitch shoot enemies even within a small angle. Your reaction time is not a useful skill anymore.
Dust is now confirmed to be an RPG and not a shooter. The "first person shooter" experience I am looking for is DEAD.
2. So you basically confirmed the CCP logic "mouse is too good for FPS (duh) so we nerfed it! :D ".
Since I am a mouse user, I can not put up with non-sense like this.
Seriously can nobody see how stupid it sounds?
Good bye Dust, it was good while it lasted.
If suits have diffrent limits and i hope it isnt based of extra armor plates or kinetic mods, if it is and i would put mods into my suit that slow me down or speed me up, would mean i need to relearn how to shoot again with a mouse each time i adjust my suit.
My Muscle memory will have a fieldday with that stuff...
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gabriel login
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
15
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Posted - 2013.05.11 08:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
well seeing as your fixing the controls ccp think you can please make the ads faster or at least let us set a speed as hip firing from like 35m is not what you want right ccp. |
Toyboi
BetaMax. CRONOS.
33
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Posted - 2013.05.11 08:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
G500 Sensetivity: 100. Smothing: off. autoaim: (i dont know if it effects kb/m) is off.
So i did get some playtime last night and i while you did improve on the aiming a little bit i noticed something i know some has already reported this but my aim does not follow the mousemovement speed basicly when i aim the croshair takes time to get into position.
I get you want different turnspeeds for the suits but the scout shouldent be the best aimer dosent make any sense what so ever. i could respecc scout but thats not what i wonna play like..
You are gonna lose players old and newcommers if you dont find some kind of fix to this.
Maybe you could remove the turn speed penelty for aiming within 90 degrees of the croshair with some kind of cooldowntimer untill the next 90 degrees can be turned like that. i really hope i make sense
BUT i would absolutly prefere raw input.
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Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
117
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Posted - 2013.05.11 08:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP.
GET US THE OPTION TO GET RID OF MOUSE ACCELERATION, OR REMOVE IT ENTIRELY.
This virtual joystick crap is not working for us. Readjusting was decent enough, even if it was a placation... but the acceleration is ******.
If you don't want us using mice, just get rid of it so those of us who use them can move on instead of waiting for you to get your heads out of your asses about this. |
Khan Hun
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2013.05.11 09:07:00 -
[82] - Quote
Control system: Mouse logitech G3
For Dust to be a long-haul game that grows and people continue to play the core gameplay must be fun, unlocking XYZ wont keep people very long if the actual game itself isn't enjoyable.
Right now, due almost entirely to changing something that worked fine before, it simply isn't fun. I'm playing it, because I want my skill points and to learn the new skills/gear so when you fix it I wont have lost out, but if it doesn't get fixed I and I'm sure a lot of others will drift away.
I cant really tell you whats wrong. but I can give you these observations I've made
-The hot fix helped a bit, it went from throwing the PS3 out a window frustrating to what it is now- gritted teeth until the SP cap is reached annoying.
-before uprising it felt like I was connected to the game, it was fun. Now it feels like I'm connected to a lever, that connects to a chicken, who has his own joystick, which is connected to a PS3. I have no idea what the little fella is doing, but I know I want to throttle him.
-The sensitivity normally is very high and jerky, the sensitivity when I aim down sights is slow and sluggish. Aiming down sights I go from a 16 year old after 15 cans of redbull and speed to a 65 year old guy with a prosthetic arm.
I cannot stress enough how important the basic act of shooting someone is, if it feels good and fun (like it did) dust will be fine. If it stays how it is now.. anything else you do, no matter how good, will only give people a reason to grit their teeth and try and ignore the control system for another week to try it out, then they'll leave.
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SatBee
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
1
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Posted - 2013.05.11 09:41:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:RAW input. Just this to eliminate that never ending input lag. It always was bad, it was "ok" at most in chromosome but not good in any way. And add rotation speed limit on top of that if that's how it should be. To balance fat/fast suits and stuff. For me rotation speeds wasn't an issue ever.
P.S. i'm using mouse on 50 50 sensitivity and 576p to squeeze the most i can... and it's just sad... |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2926
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 10:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
Copy-paste for anyone still complaining about turn speed cap:
The nature of the sixaxis controller is such that it's impossible to exceed certain reasonable speed restrictions without significant loss of precision.
The nature of the way a mouse works allows for near-instant turning as well as pinpoint precision.
A skilled mouse user with no turn speed limit will be able to negate the advantage of another player sneaking up on them. No matter how skilled a player with a sixaxis controller is, they can never achieve the same thing.
Speed cap is a necessity for the control schemes to be at least moderately balanced. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
243
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 10:13:00 -
[85] - Quote
By the time CCP realizes apples cant be adjusted to taste like oranges with a few tweaked injections, the apples will already have died off.
You really cant put a handicap on one control and think that its fine vs the other control scheme.
What about the Move ? shouldnt the DS3 and Mouse be adjusted down to its level ? or is it fine that those guys play handicapped, but for some reason the other 2 schemes r fine ?
On the pc at least whatever input devive you used, no matter what or how advanced it was, if it gave you an edge ...hey good for you man, its like those No scope guys sticking crosshairs on their screen to have a scope anyways.
If you want to balance the mouse, do it inside the mouse scope of things, don't box it into the DS3 as it is now and pretend we are all moving virtual sticks with it.
Chromosone already felt like i was playing with 1 hand, but i adapted to it, right now its like look guys i am playing Dust with NO HANDS!!! And i really cant seem to adapt.
Ive come across guys i know are good with the DS3, before i could put up a fight with em and it could go both ways, now if i see them i am dead before i get my crosshair onto them.
Oh and i still get better results in gameplay when i use an Eagle Eye Converter vs using my KB/M directly plugged into the PS3...
Quote:Speed cap is a necessity for the control schemes to be at least moderately balanced.
Then they failed to deliver that part as i can still do a 360 in an instant, i just dont have any control over my aiming. |
Indy Strizer
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
84
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Posted - 2013.05.11 10:20:00 -
[86] - Quote
I use the DS3.
I prefer chromosome's aiming. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
245
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Posted - 2013.05.11 10:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
Right now the only scheme i can remotely get kills with is one where i use my Eagle Eye converter to convert my KB/M into a DS3 and run such slow speeds that i need to lift up my mouse 4 times to do a 360 degree turn around.
thats 4x 25cm of mousemat used and enormous swings from one part of the pad to the other when i ADS. |
Khan Hun
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2013.05.11 10:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
I don't see a problem in putting some limit to mouse control to even the playing field, for new players and very casual players it makes sense. For people who are playing seriously though why some one with a PS3 cant stump up a few quid for a mouse I cant fathom, but thats besides the point.
The issue is if that control limit turns using a mouse in dust into what it is currently, an experience that seems almost perfectly made to aggravate and annoy anyone who plays it, the game will suffer.
If there is genuinely no way to put a control limit on without turning the control with a mouse to ****, just remove mouse and go DS3 only. The game will loose some players (me included) and it wont be possible to ever put out a PC version. The danger with that option is I'd wager the people who will leave will be the serious players who would be involved with the eve/dust link, and the ones who will be happy will be the very casual players who just want to shoot things in the face for a bit for free.
Not a quick fix, but some kind of motion blur effect would be a much better solution. Past the max turn speed of the DS3 stick, introduce a motion blur effect that lasts for the amount of time it'd take a DS3 to catch up, that way spinning 180 in a split second is no use, but you maintain the feel of the mouse.
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Rei Shepard
Spectre II
246
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 10:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
Snippet from a post i made somewhere else..
how about they do it like this
they can like they did it in chromosone, i could do a 360 with about 10-12cm mousemat used vs 1cm on PC and they had a 3000 DPI input limit set, maybe thats a hardware constraint on the ps3 but they should be able to block user set DPI settings that say go over 2000 DPI.
That way, their Sensetivity Slider + max DPI of 2000 = our max turn limit.
Edit: witch is a whole lot better then what we now have witch is "Mouse Sense Slider + Virtual Analog Seperate X & Y axis setting + Virtual Mouse Deadzone settings + Max DPI of 3000
Edit: for instance just loosing me as a Dust Player will mean, they loose 13 payed accounts, spread over 4 people playing eve and Dust altogether, i doubt i am the only one multi-boxing eve because of Dust. |
bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
99
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 10:40:00 -
[90] - Quote
Khan Hun wrote:
Control system: Mouse logitech G3
For Dust to be a long-haul game that grows and people continue to play the core gameplay must be fun, unlocking XYZ wont keep people very long if the actual game itself isn't enjoyable.
Right now, due almost entirely to changing something that worked fine before, it simply isn't fun. I'm playing it, because I want my skill points and to learn the new skills/gear so when you fix it I wont have lost out, but if it doesn't get fixed I and I'm sure a lot of others will drift away.
I cant really tell you whats wrong. but I can give you these observations I've made
-The hot fix helped a bit, it went from throwing the PS3 out a window frustrating to what it is now- gritted teeth until the SP cap is reached annoying.
-before uprising it felt like I was connected to the game, it was fun. Now it feels like I'm connected to a lever, that connects to a chicken, who has his own joystick, which is connected to a PS3. I have no idea what the little fella is doing, but I know I want to throttle him.
-The sensitivity normally is very high and jerky, the sensitivity when I aim down sights is slow and sluggish. Aiming down sights I go from a 16 year old after 15 cans of redbull and speed to a 65 year old guy with a prosthetic arm.
I cannot stress enough how important the basic act of shooting someone is, if it feels good and fun (like it did) dust will be fine. If it stays how it is now.. anything else you do, no matter how good, will only give people a reason to grit their teeth and try and ignore the control system for another week to try it out, then they'll leave.
I second this the only reason im playing right now is to not fall behind in SP...
The AIM is so frustrating to fight with its not enjoyable to play anymore, I seriously get pissed off when im in CQC and my aim has a mind of its own and im fighting to keep it on target .
Ive supported this game over the years with countless merc packs I know im only one person but I will not continue to support an un-enjoyable shooter that was at one time completely fine...
Please fix this horrible mechanic. . |
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