DUST Search - Sticky:Aiming and control system in general

bolsh lee wrote:

Bones McGavins wrote:

Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer.

This logic is ******** im hella good with mouse and keyboard and I know not everyone who has given me a challlange on the field (pre uprising) is using a Kb/M and I respect the **** out of the good DS3 users.. If they out gun my kb/m skills do i call the DS3 Op and Dust should be a Kb/m game only ..? Hell no, those people who are good if not quicker accuracy with DS3 its because they have gotten to that point with practice and dedication just like the majority of the competitive kb/m players have grown up on shooters using the keyboard and mouse..

This debate is as old as consoles and it really boils down to if your good your good, if a Kb/m user owns you there is a good chance he/she is better then you, be it thinking ahead of the situation or gun game, same logic goes for DS3 users.. For those that cry about one or the other they should probably look at themselves and go play something that takes a lil less hand eye cordnation..


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:20:00 - [1] - Quote Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:32:00 - [2] - Quote Maybe. But lots of players LOVE console shooters. Trying to allow both is a huge mistake, and is likely why they have so much trouble getting the aim down. Its almost impossible to balance correctly. If you just made good controls for both, mouse users would dominate with pinpoint accuracy. Back when I first heard about DUST I knew the biggest issue would be controls, and trying to get aiming fair with both controllers and mouse. And its obvious they are struggling with that big time, leaving both controls schemes below standard. Force people to use one or the other. If its a mouse, youll lose a ton more players than if its a DS3 though, thats for sure.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:49:00 - [3] - Quote No, thats my point. Right now mouse doesnt have an advantage, but mouse control and aiming is horrible. DS3 control and aiming isnt that solid either (not as bad as other folks make it out to be). The reason for this is the attempt to balance it. My point is IF they fixed aiming on both input, mouse would have a big advantage. So I am not rooting for good mouse controls. Id prefer if they picked a lane and worked on making those controls as good as possible instead of trying to tackle this nearly impossible task of making fun, good, balanced controls for both. Also, I can play plenty competitive from much couch, not just in DUST, but in all sorts of console shooters. Competitive vs casual has nothing to do with controller input. But yes, if you allowed both, and made both function well, then competitive players would have zero choice but to pick up a kb/m and that would be terrible.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:54:00 - [4] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer. This logic is ****** im hella good with mouse and keyboard and I know not everyone who has given me a challlange on the field (pre uprising) is using a Kb/M and I respect the ** out of the good DS3 users.. If they out gun my kb/m skills do i call the DS3 Op and Dust should be a Kb/m game only ..? Hell no, those people who are good if not quicker accuracy with DS3 its because they have gotten to that point with practice and dedication just like the majority of the competitive kb/m players have grown up on shooters using the keyboard and mouse.. This debate is as old as consoles and it really boils down to if your good your good, if a Kb/m user owns you there is a good chance he/she is better then you, be it thinking ahead of the situation or gun game, same logic goes for DS3 users.. For those that cry about one or the other they should probably look at themselves and go play something that takes a lil less hand eye cordnation.. This is just factually wrong. There is a reason console UIs are WAY different then PC UI. Even in non twitch senstive gaming. The reason is, mouse can do percise input a LOT better than a joy stick. That ability translates to being able to put and keep a cursor on a target a lot easier. Thats just facts. In DUST, right now, mouse users DONT have that advantage cause their controls suck. If they fix those controls, then that advantage would be there. Go ahead, claim Im bad, whatever. I know my skill. I also know facts, and the simple fact that everyone who isnt blind by love of KB/M knows is that KB/M provides more percise, easier aim. Thats why games like COD and BF3 and Halo all have strong sticky aim where PC shooters dont.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 17:40:00 - [5] - Quote Keyboard and mouse aiming has always been bad in DUST. You're ignoring the part where I say "IF THEY FIX IT." But no, keep insisting that its not easier to precisely place a mouse over something compared to joystick controls. There is no "auto aim" but the entire world knows mouse offers more percise control than a joystick. Like I said, look at every UI ever built for console versus PC. Trying to make the argument that mouse DOESNT offer precise control versus joystick would be like arguing that a car cant go faster than a bike. Its just silly. You look ignorant or stubborn if you stick that that line of thought.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:36:00 - [6] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: @Bones Im not denying that and im not trying to argue im saying that its not as simple as the mouse "is" more accurate because I can point you to multiple people that will tell you the DS3 "is" more precise. . Its simple because the user makes it that precise.. You put two people same skill lvl one from each input there isnt much diference.. Eg; Chromosome infact I think the DS3 users excelled over the kb/m users on the leader boards.. Even though you cant compare bike vs a car cause a car is "Automatic" if that person driving a car doesn't know how to drive, the bike would indeed go faster... ;) We will have to agree to disagree. I think mouse controls have always been gimped in DUST and thats why mouse users havent had an advantage. But in most FPS games, you clone a good player, give one clone a DS3 and another a mouse, the mouse user will tear the face off the DS3 user. This is why most games seperate the player bases. CCP has tried to tackle the challange of making a game balanced for both. That's why we see such weird controls in play that seem contrary to most FPS games. They are struggliIing to try to break new ground to balance these control schemes, and its making the controls below par for both schemes. I feel like as long as they try to make it work for both, we are going to get poopy controls. So the options, IMO are, pick one and go with it, or just use typical schemes for both. The latter, however, will lead to any real competitive player being forced into using a mouse, IMO.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 171	Posted - 2013.05.15 16:20:00 - [7] - Quote I had no issues in Chromosome (except at the very beggining when i was new) none in Uprising or after the mouse hotfix. But yesterday I felt like I couldnt hit anything. CQ was horrible. Mid/long was a bit less of an issue, and may just be me needing to adjust to new settings. But TBH CQ felt like there was zero aim assist. Reminds me of trying to shoot team-mates in HALO. Aim asisst has never been that strong in this game, but it felt even weaker yesterday.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 195	Posted - 2013.05.20 14:28:00 - [8] - Quote No, that does not keep both ends happy. Because it forces competitive console gamers to try to learn or re-arrange their living room to use KB/M. You'd **** off a majority of the skilled players that way. Without limits, players would have to use kb/m to be the best they can be.