DUST Search - Sticky:Aiming and control system in general

Bones McGavins wrote:

bolsh lee wrote:

Bones McGavins wrote:

Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer.

This logic is ******** im hella good with mouse and keyboard and I know not everyone who has given me a challlange on the field (pre uprising) is using a Kb/M and I respect the **** out of the good DS3 users.. If they out gun my kb/m skills do i call the DS3 Op and Dust should be a Kb/m game only ..? Hell no, those people who are good if not quicker accuracy with DS3 its because they have gotten to that point with practice and dedication just like the majority of the competitive kb/m players have grown up on shooters using the keyboard and mouse..

This debate is as old as consoles and it really boils down to if your good your good, if a Kb/m user owns you there is a good chance he/she is better then you, be it thinking ahead of the situation or gun game, same logic goes for DS3 users.. For those that cry about one or the other they should probably look at themselves and go play something that takes a lil less hand eye cordnation..

This is just factually wrong. There is a reason console UIs are WAY different then PC UI. Even in non twitch senstive gaming. The reason is, mouse can do percise input a LOT better than a joy stick. That ability translates to being able to put and keep a cursor on a target a lot easier. Thats just facts.

In DUST, right now, mouse users DONT have that advantage cause their controls suck. If they fix those controls, then that advantage would be there. Go ahead, claim Im bad, whatever. I know my skill. I also know facts, and the simple fact that everyone who isnt blind by love of KB/M knows is that KB/M provides more percise, easier aim. Thats why games like COD and BF3 and Halo all have strong sticky aim where PC shooters dont.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Rei Shepard Spectre II 229	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:15:00 - [31] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: @Rei Shepard It seems to be all relative, so why wouldn't DS3 and kb/m users share the same thread.. They want us to be on an even playing field right.. So try to be less of an ass . . K. ? Sorry, 5 days wasted of my vacation trying to come up with something that works left me a bit bitter. Quote: M/KB user here. After today's patch aiming got a lot better. It is on the same level as it was in Chromosome I'd say, and that's good enough for me. I'm using a Razer Diamondback 3G, sensitivity 80, smoothing off, aim assist off. Thanks for this fix, CCP! It didnt fix anything for me, but awesome tha it works for you.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries 144	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:20:00 - [32] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Sponglyboy Squaredoo wrote: Shouldn't you guys be worring about the PS3 controller first? Since we're are in fact playing on a Playstation which makes it safe to say the majority of Dust players are using PS3 Controllers rather than Keyboard & Mouse. Just a way to satisfy more people, quicker. Google. Unreal Tournament 3 mouse and keyboard balancing, they had these same issues when they tried to balance out the mouse by adding a turnspeed/deadzone of sorts (not sure what the technical name for it is since im not a dev) it also screws with the DS3 because your precision movements aren't so precise anymore because of the certain acceleration/deceleration that is working to try to adjust the mouse speed... ( I could be totally wrong but from what ive read the PS3 can't determine settings based on inputs) So settings are universal.. I can also 100% verify if the "Aim fix" was implemented today it didn't do anything to improve on the current system... I have tried increasing DPI decreasing DPI changing the mouse speed via the ps3 everything and my precise movements turn into long strides when aiming left and right..... Mark Rein Epic Gmes wrote: YES we are supporting keyboard and mouse in Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3. He is confident we are doing it in a way that will be balanced without feeling "gimped" for either side. They are trying to balance something that not to many people complained about in Chromosone which in place is hurting the majority of folks who didn't complain about it... if that is the case then having KBM and DS3 support was and is a mistake. It should be DS3 only. Otherwise they are just trying to make things less bad. to be fair to CCP there were lots of posts about aiming not being great - stiffness/ jerkiness/ not smooth, etc. I was of this crowd....sorry
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:20:00 - [33] - Quote Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 229	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:26:00 - [34] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer. It should really just be up to the person how, where and when he plays his games, with or without a beer, because i don't even like beers. Opinion, opinion and more opinions. If i can voice my opinion then, maybe they shouldn't make FPS games for a console then, because shooters are meant to be played on PC with KB/M controls ?
fell and died Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:31:00 - [35] - Quote I'm playing DUST514 with the PS Move controller that came bundled with my PS3 and I'm getting stomped by DS3 users. Plz nerf DS3.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:32:00 - [36] - Quote Maybe. But lots of players LOVE console shooters. Trying to allow both is a huge mistake, and is likely why they have so much trouble getting the aim down. Its almost impossible to balance correctly. If you just made good controls for both, mouse users would dominate with pinpoint accuracy. Back when I first heard about DUST I knew the biggest issue would be controls, and trying to get aiming fair with both controllers and mouse. And its obvious they are struggling with that big time, leaving both controls schemes below standard. Force people to use one or the other. If its a mouse, youll lose a ton more players than if its a DS3 though, thats for sure.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 230	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:38:00 - [37] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Maybe. But lots of players LOVE console shooters. Trying to allow both is a huge mistake, and is likely why they have so much trouble getting the aim down. Its almost impossible to balance correctly. If you just made good controls for both, mouse users would dominate with pinpoint accuracy. Back when I first heard about DUST I knew the biggest issue would be controls, and trying to get aiming fair with both controllers and mouse. And its obvious they are struggling with that big time, leaving both controls schemes below standard. Force people to use one or the other. If its a mouse, youll lose a ton more players than if its a DS3 though, thats for sure. Don't forget that for each Mouse User, there might be multiple Eve accounts to be sold to, i know i run 3 Eve accounts on my PC and PC users pay a monthly Eve fee where as F2P people usually stick to F2P without even buying boosters. If i had tried this game with this control scheme vs Chromosone, i would most likely not have returned to Eve and not bought 5 merc packs for my boosters. I also convinced a couple of other people to do the same, in the end they will lose around 10 Paying Eve accounts & 3 payed Dust accounts by loosing the 3 Dust accounts due to Controll issues. And i doubt we aren't the only ones. Quote: Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer. Also touching this subject again, if you want to play like a couch potato and not be in any way competitive with other players that have fun, only when playing they competitive, its is entirely your choice but we should not be bubble wrapped, taped down to the floor, blindfolded, gagged and shoved up some spikes from the rear up, just so you can keep playing on your couch and compete with us. This game was advertised to come with KB/M support and well since uprising it doesnt.
fell and died Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:42:00 - [38] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Maybe. But lots of players LOVE console shooters. Trying to allow both is a huge mistake, and is likely why they have so much trouble getting the aim down. Its almost impossible to balance correctly. If you just made good controls for both, mouse users would dominate with pinpoint accuracy. Back when I first heard about DUST I knew the biggest issue would be controls, and trying to get aiming fair with both controllers and mouse. And its obvious they are struggling with that big time, leaving both controls schemes below standard. Force people to use one or the other. If its a mouse, youll lose a ton more players than if its a DS3 though, thats for sure. Did you even try using a mouse in this game? It is FAR from being as good as it would be on a PC. It takes a lot of skill to aim properly with a mouse in this game. More so if you are not used to using a mouse. People treat this as if a mouse is the ultimate "I WIN" button for everyone. It is not! Experience, skill, teamplay, gear is much more important in this game than the input device you use.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 93	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:47:00 - [39] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer. This logic is ****** im hella good with mouse and keyboard and I know not everyone who has given me a challlange on the field (pre uprising) is using a Kb/M and I respect the ** out of the good DS3 users.. If they out gun my kb/m skills do i call the DS3 Op and Dust should be a Kb/m game only ..? Hell no, those people who are good if not quicker accuracy with DS3 its because they have gotten to that point with practice and dedication just like the majority of the cocompetitive kb/m players have grown up on shooters using the keyboard and mouse.. This debate is as old as consoles and it really boils down to if your good your good, if a Kb/m user owns you there is a good chance he/she is better then you, be it thinking ahead of the situation or gun game, same logic goes for DS3 users.. For those that cry about one or the other they should probably look at themselves and go play something that takes a lil less hand eye cordnation..
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:49:00 - [40] - Quote No, thats my point. Right now mouse doesnt have an advantage, but mouse control and aiming is horrible. DS3 control and aiming isnt that solid either (not as bad as other folks make it out to be). The reason for this is the attempt to balance it. My point is IF they fixed aiming on both input, mouse would have a big advantage. So I am not rooting for good mouse controls. Id prefer if they picked a lane and worked on making those controls as good as possible instead of trying to tackle this nearly impossible task of making fun, good, balanced controls for both. Also, I can play plenty competitive from much couch, not just in DUST, but in all sorts of console shooters. Competitive vs casual has nothing to do with controller input. But yes, if you allowed both, and made both function well, then competitive players would have zero choice but to pick up a kb/m and that would be terrible.

Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 16:54:00 - [41] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer. This logic is ****** im hella good with mouse and keyboard and I know not everyone who has given me a challlange on the field (pre uprising) is using a Kb/M and I respect the ** out of the good DS3 users.. If they out gun my kb/m skills do i call the DS3 Op and Dust should be a Kb/m game only ..? Hell no, those people who are good if not quicker accuracy with DS3 its because they have gotten to that point with practice and dedication just like the majority of the competitive kb/m players have grown up on shooters using the keyboard and mouse.. This debate is as old as consoles and it really boils down to if your good your good, if a Kb/m user owns you there is a good chance he/she is better then you, be it thinking ahead of the situation or gun game, same logic goes for DS3 users.. For those that cry about one or the other they should probably look at themselves and go play something that takes a lil less hand eye cordnation.. This is just factually wrong. There is a reason console UIs are WAY different then PC UI. Even in non twitch senstive gaming. The reason is, mouse can do percise input a LOT better than a joy stick. That ability translates to being able to put and keep a cursor on a target a lot easier. Thats just facts. In DUST, right now, mouse users DONT have that advantage cause their controls suck. If they fix those controls, then that advantage would be there. Go ahead, claim Im bad, whatever. I know my skill. I also know facts, and the simple fact that everyone who isnt blind by love of KB/M knows is that KB/M provides more percise, easier aim. Thats why games like COD and BF3 and Halo all have strong sticky aim where PC shooters dont.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 93	Posted - 2013.05.10 17:11:00 - [42] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Maybe mouse users shouldnt be playing a game on the PS3 anyway... I have no sympathy for mouse users. If you guys got good controls, the game would be broken and unfair for DS3 users. Console games should be played from the comfort of a couch, with a controller and a beer. This logic is ****** im hella good with mouse and keyboard and I know not everyone who has given me a challlange on the field (pre uprising) is using a Kb/M and I respect the ** out of the good DS3 users.. If they out gun my kb/m skills do i call the DS3 Op and Dust should be a Kb/m game only ..? Hell no, those people who are good if not quicker accuracy with DS3 its because they have gotten to that point with practice and dedication just like the majority of the competitive kb/m players have grown up on shooters using the keyboard and mouse.. This debate is as old as consoles and it really boils down to if your good your good, if a Kb/m user owns you there is a good chance he/she is better then you, be it thinking ahead of the situation or gun game, same logic goes for DS3 users.. For those that cry about one or the other they should probably look at themselves and go play something that takes a lil less hand eye cordnation.. This is just factually wrong. There is a reason console UIs are WAY different then PC UI. Even in non twitch senstive gaming. The reason is, mouse can do percise input a LOT better than a joy stick. That ability translates to being able to put and keep a cursor on a target a lot easier. Thats just facts. In DUST, right now, mouse users DONT have that advantage cause their controls suck. If they fix those controls, then that advantage would be there. Go ahead, claim Im bad, whatever. I know my skill. I also know facts, and the simple fact that everyone who isnt blind by love of KB/M knows is that KB/M provides more percise, easier aim. Thats why games like COD and BF3 and Halo all have strong sticky aim where PC shooters dont. Your facts are wrong, refer to last build AKA Chromosome.. or were all top competitive players using a mouse ? The answer is no so again your logic/facts are flawed I can name names if you'd like.. ?
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 17:40:00 - [43] - Quote Keyboard and mouse aiming has always been bad in DUST. You're ignoring the part where I say "IF THEY FIX IT." But no, keep insisting that its not easier to precisely place a mouse over something compared to joystick controls. There is no "auto aim" but the entire world knows mouse offers more percise control than a joystick. Like I said, look at every UI ever built for console versus PC. Trying to make the argument that mouse DOESNT offer precise control versus joystick would be like arguing that a car cant go faster than a bike. Its just silly. You look ignorant or stubborn if you stick that that line of thought.
NaglfarBP Not Guilty EoN. 26	Posted - 2013.05.10 17:45:00 - [44] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: What about the fact that I aim my MD at someone fire and the smoke tracer hits them dead on but I infact miss because the explosion lands about 5m further away than where the tracer does? This. Please look at this, it drives me insane,
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries 305	Posted - 2013.05.10 17:52:00 - [45] - Quote What about the DS3....
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 94	Posted - 2013.05.10 18:21:00 - [46] - Quote @Bones Im not denying that and im not tryimg to argue im saying that its not as simple as the mouse "is" more accurate because I can point you to multiple people that will tell you the DS3 "is" more precise. . Its simple because the user makes it that precise.. You put two people same skill lvl one from each input there isnt much diference.. Eg; Chromosome infact I think the DS3 users excelled over the kb/m users on the leader boards.. Even though you cant compare bike vs a car cause a car is "Automatic" if that person driving a car doesn't know how to drive, the bike would indeed go faster... ;)
jeanmiaou What The French CRONOS. 2	Posted - 2013.05.10 18:54:00 - [47] - Quote change the ******* mir and the blue flash for laser!! give me a viewfinder *4 or red point !!
jeanmiaou What The French CRONOS. 2	Posted - 2013.05.10 18:54:00 - [48] - Quote jeanmiaou wrote: change the ******* mir and the blue flash for laser!! give me a viewfinder *4 or red point !!
XiBravo TeamPlayers EoN. 12	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:07:00 - [49] - Quote The input lag, bad ads to hip sensitivity relation, inability to effectively use the equipment wheel with mouse, and inability to bind actions to preferred keys, make the game much less enjoyable to play.
PT SD Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 396	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:36:00 - [50] - Quote Last build aiming was fine with a mouse, now it's just plain bad even after the patch. Why did you mess something up that baked in already in unreal 3? I don't understand this at all, it's native. It's seems like your trying to emulate a joystick with the mouse now, because the movements on screen don't correlate to my movements.

Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 157	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:36:00 - [51] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: @Bones Im not denying that and im not trying to argue im saying that its not as simple as the mouse "is" more accurate because I can point you to multiple people that will tell you the DS3 "is" more precise. . Its simple because the user makes it that precise.. You put two people same skill lvl one from each input there isnt much diference.. Eg; Chromosome infact I think the DS3 users excelled over the kb/m users on the leader boards.. Even though you cant compare bike vs a car cause a car is "Automatic" if that person driving a car doesn't know how to drive, the bike would indeed go faster... ;) We will have to agree to disagree. I think mouse controls have always been gimped in DUST and thats why mouse users havent had an advantage. But in most FPS games, you clone a good player, give one clone a DS3 and another a mouse, the mouse user will tear the face off the DS3 user. This is why most games seperate the player bases. CCP has tried to tackle the challange of making a game balanced for both. That's why we see such weird controls in play that seem contrary to most FPS games. They are struggliIing to try to break new ground to balance these control schemes, and its making the controls below par for both schemes. I feel like as long as they try to make it work for both, we are going to get poopy controls. So the options, IMO are, pick one and go with it, or just use typical schemes for both. The latter, however, will lead to any real competitive player being forced into using a mouse, IMO.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 96	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:54:00 - [52] - Quote PT SD wrote: Last build aiming was fine with a mouse, now it's just plain bad even after the patch. Why did you mess something up that's baked in already in unreal 3? I don't understand this at all, it's native. It's seems like your trying to emulate a joystick with the mouse now, because the movements on screen don't correlate to my movements. They definitely are, try and hold the middle wheel and Q to try to issue a squad command you can't get it on the designated option they need to roll it back to how it was in chromosome !
Protected Void One-Armed Bandits 6	Posted - 2013.05.10 20:01:00 - [53] - Quote I just played 4 games. The aiming seems fine now, so something's been changed in addition to what was posted in today's downtime announcement. Less than 24 hours ago aiming was crap for me. I'm on the bog standard PS3 controller, no aim assist, X sens. 50, Y sens. 40.
Rhapsodyy Darkforce SyNergy Gaming EoN. 15	Posted - 2013.05.10 20:22:00 - [54] - Quote I really dont know why or what you've done to aiming ccp, i dont think anybody had any issues in last build with the aim did they? Just put it back to how it was imo. Cos right now i cant track for squat, and ive tried all sorts of damn settings.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 427	Posted - 2013.05.10 21:20:00 - [55] - Quote Great, now mouse players can go back to having an infinite advantage over controller players. Ridiculous. Played some well known kb/m players the other night, and it seemed like they did just fine being invincible with the "broken" mouse... IMO it should have been nerfed and broken some more, not made better. Fix the controller aiming first, as this is a console game after all.
XiBravo TeamPlayers EoN. 18	Posted - 2013.05.10 21:52:00 - [56] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: The native mouse support is the reason some players even picked up the game. There are countless games that do not offer it, why dont the controller inferiority complex players pick one of them up? Better yet Why don't you plug a mouse in and see how "Awesome" is is. (Hint: it's not) every household with a ps3 most likely has a mouse. No one is stoping you. As it is now aiming is laughable with a mouse.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink CRONOS. 66	Posted - 2013.05.10 22:39:00 - [57] - Quote come on aiming has sucked since they introduced kb/mouse last year ive probly played more pc fps and console fps's than most geez i have consoles dating back to the atari and pc style machines back to the BBC and amstrad kb/m IS PC gaming and controller is console those are the FACTS i play games both u CANNOT use a controller on a PC with success so WHY should u be able to play on a console with kb/m with success the 2 are just are not ment to run on the same platform if dust playeres want kb/m then they should have to wait for a PC client when i wanna chill out after work i dont always want to sit at my pc so i play fps on the console and i want it to atleast work properly as iv seen mentioned same thing happened on UT3 (unreal tournament 3) adding kb/m screwed the controller guys as both wernt or couldnt be balanced yet if i feel like sitting at the pc and using kb/m and playing a game i will ive tried KB/M on ps3 RESULT its not as good as playing on the pc ive used controller on PC RESULT not as good as playing on a console my view is its one or the other cant have both
supersayinb Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 56	Posted - 2013.05.10 22:52:00 - [58] - Quote It's nice to see the kb/m players getting some love (or at least attempting to get some love). Any word on when the DS3 controls get tweaked?
SGT Garrisson On The Brink CRONOS. 66	Posted - 2013.05.10 22:55:00 - [59] - Quote supersayinb wrote: It's nice to see the kb/m players getting some love (or at least attempting to get some love). Any word on when the DS3 controls get tweaked? i bet when they tweek DS3 the KB/M users will complain there controls suck or dont work
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 96	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:05:00 - [60] - Quote SGT Garrisson wrote: supersayinb wrote: It's nice to see the kb/m players getting some love (or at least attempting to get some love). Any word on when the DS3 controls get tweaked? i bet when they tweek DS3 the KB/M users will complain there controls suck or dont work From what I understand the settings are relative.... Hence why the DS3 users are bitching because they are trying to add certain values to the kb/m so technically as the kb/m controls improve the ds3 controls will improve as well...



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