DUST Search - Sticky:Aiming and control system in general

Eggress wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Hi guys,

Since the last update weGÇÖve been happy to hear that many of you feel the DS3 has improved. We are still actively working on the controls and here is the latest news:

*We are currently tuning the input curve giving you a greater degree of control over fine aiming with the DS3. We will be testing this internally and if we feel it is successful we will roll it out to you as soon as we can. More news on that when we have it.

*We know that some of you donGÇÖt like full input acceleration on the DS3, then again some players do. ItGÇÖs tricky to make everyone happy! We will look in to adding the option to disable it in a future update but that isnGÇÖt something we can add right now. Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, full input acceleration is not something weGÇÖve added this release, it was also present in the last build.

*We found the DS3 full input acceleration was being effected by the sensitivity settings meaning higher sensitivities would reach max rotation speed faster. This should not be the case now, it was fixed in the last update.

*We have a fix for a bug that prevented updated MKB sensitivity settings being read by the game. This means (once fixed) that the sensitivity spikes you have been experiencing on certain settings will be gone. It also means you will be playing with the correct settings which you have not been up until this point due to the bug. We hope to get this update to you in around a week. We will continue to make further improvements after that point and we will be looking forward to getting more feedback (and acting on it) once the update is out. In the meantime we will continue internal testing and let you know when you can expect us to roll out any new updates.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

In fact, it is EXTREMELY easy to make everyone happy.
You give them a full suite of settings for things like lookaccel, sensitivity, and deadzones in and out of "aiming" mode.

You know.
Like the sliders we had available in earlier builds which were inexplicably removed.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Qubot Sendai Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.05.17 01:21:00 - [211] - Quote aiming has improved. ADS feels more dynamic [or fluid] than before. the work on the iron sights is appreciated too, i literally avoided ADS before Uprising. the feedback from hitting the target was much more to my liking too. my first impression was 'hm, i can live with this' so, i think we are moving ahead needless to say, i'm pleasantly surprised by Uprising (in general). keep up the good work ps.: DS3 user
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 31	Posted - 2013.05.17 01:47:00 - [212] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: With the lack of communication, I'm really wondering if we are going to see a fix soon, or are we supposed to just deal till the next big update...? i hope we get a fix an it would be nice if ccp would come be our friends for a sec an tell us something.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 380	Posted - 2013.05.17 03:41:00 - [213] - Quote Hi guys, Since the last update weGÇÖve been happy to hear that many of you feel the DS3 has improved. We are still actively working on the controls and here is the latest news: We are currently tuning the input curve giving you a greater degree of control over fine aiming with the DS3. We will be testing this internally and if we feel it is successful we will roll it out to you as soon as we can. More news on that when we have it. We know that some of you donGÇÖt like full input acceleration on the DS3, then again some players do. ItGÇÖs tricky to make everyone happy! We will look in to adding the option to disable it in a future update but that isnGÇÖt something we can add right now. Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, full input acceleration is not something weGÇÖve added this release, it was also present in the last build. We found the DS3 full input acceleration was being effected by the sensitivity settings meaning higher sensitivities would reach max rotation speed faster. This should not be the case now, it was fixed in the last update. We have a fix for a bug that prevented updated MKB sensitivity settings being read by the game. This means (once fixed) that the sensitivity spikes you have been experiencing on certain settings will be gone. It also means you will be playing with the correct settings which you have not been up until this point due to the bug. We hope to get this update to you in around a week. We will continue to make further improvements after that point and we will be looking forward to getting more feedback (and acting on it) once the update is out. In the meantime we will continue internal testing and let you know when you can expect us to roll out any new updates. Cheers CCP Wolfman

Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries 337	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:19:00 - [214] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, Since the last update weGÇÖve been happy to hear that many of you feel the DS3 has improved. We are still actively working on the controls and here is the latest news: We are currently tuning the input curve giving you a greater degree of control over fine aiming with the DS3. We will be testing this internally and if we feel it is successful we will roll it out to you as soon as we can. More news on that when we have it. We know that some of you donGÇÖt like full input acceleration on the DS3, then again some players do. ItGÇÖs tricky to make everyone happy! We will look in to adding the option to disable it in a future update but that isnGÇÖt something we can add right now. Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, full input acceleration is not something weGÇÖve added this release, it was also present in the last build. We found the DS3 full input acceleration was being effected by the sensitivity settings meaning higher sensitivities would reach max rotation speed faster. This should not be the case now, it was fixed in the last update. We have a fix for a bug that prevented updated MKB sensitivity settings being read by the game. This means (once fixed) that the sensitivity spikes you have been experiencing on certain settings will be gone. It also means you will be playing with the correct settings which you have not been up until this point due to the bug. We hope to get this update to you in around a week. We will continue to make further improvements after that point and we will be looking forward to getting more feedback (and acting on it) once the update is out. In the meantime we will continue internal testing and let you know when you can expect us to roll out any new updates. Cheers CCP Wolfman DS3 user here. Is it so hard to give the option of either Chromosome's aiming or Uprising's aiming? I want people who like Uprising's system to be able to keep that because it isn't really fair to roll the changes back when many people like them. But at the same time, a lot of good shooters last build feel like it's completely broken this build. I felt deadly last build and this build I'm a complete spray and pray noob. CQC is really the problem for me--none of the settings I've tried work well at all. Reviewers are noticing this too.
Eggress Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:34:00 - [215] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, Since the last update weGÇÖve been happy to hear that many of you feel the DS3 has improved. We are still actively working on the controls and here is the latest news: We are currently tuning the input curve giving you a greater degree of control over fine aiming with the DS3. We will be testing this internally and if we feel it is successful we will roll it out to you as soon as we can. More news on that when we have it. We know that some of you donGÇÖt like full input acceleration on the DS3, then again some players do. ItGÇÖs tricky to make everyone happy! We will look in to adding the option to disable it in a future update but that isnGÇÖt something we can add right now. Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, full input acceleration is not something weGÇÖve added this release, it was also present in the last build. We found the DS3 full input acceleration was being effected by the sensitivity settings meaning higher sensitivities would reach max rotation speed faster. This should not be the case now, it was fixed in the last update. We have a fix for a bug that prevented updated MKB sensitivity settings being read by the game. This means (once fixed) that the sensitivity spikes you have been experiencing on certain settings will be gone. It also means you will be playing with the correct settings which you have not been up until this point due to the bug. We hope to get this update to you in around a week. We will continue to make further improvements after that point and we will be looking forward to getting more feedback (and acting on it) once the update is out. In the meantime we will continue internal testing and let you know when you can expect us to roll out any new updates. Cheers CCP Wolfman In fact, it is EXTREMELY easy to make everyone happy. You give them a full suite of settings for things lookaccel, sensitivy, and deadzones in and out of "aiming" mode. You know. Like the sliders we had available in earlier builds which were inexplicably removed.
XiBravo TeamPlayers EoN. 39	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:43:00 - [216] - Quote Mouse users and probably ds3 users would benefit from separate hip and ADS sensitivity adjustments as well
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 34	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:45:00 - [217] - Quote Eggress wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, Since the last update weGÇÖve been happy to hear that many of you feel the DS3 has improved. We are still actively working on the controls and here is the latest news: We are currently tuning the input curve giving you a greater degree of control over fine aiming with the DS3. We will be testing this internally and if we feel it is successful we will roll it out to you as soon as we can. More news on that when we have it. We know that some of you donGÇÖt like full input acceleration on the DS3, then again some players do. ItGÇÖs tricky to make everyone happy! We will look in to adding the option to disable it in a future update but that isnGÇÖt something we can add right now. Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, full input acceleration is not something weGÇÖve added this release, it was also present in the last build. We found the DS3 full input acceleration was being effected by the sensitivity settings meaning higher sensitivities would reach max rotation speed faster. This should not be the case now, it was fixed in the last update. We have a fix for a bug that prevented updated MKB sensitivity settings being read by the game. This means (once fixed) that the sensitivity spikes you have been experiencing on certain settings will be gone. It also means you will be playing with the correct settings which you have not been up until this point due to the bug. We hope to get this update to you in around a week. We will continue to make further improvements after that point and we will be looking forward to getting more feedback (and acting on it) once the update is out. In the meantime we will continue internal testing and let you know when you can expect us to roll out any new updates. Cheers CCP Wolfman In fact, it is EXTREMELY easy to make everyone happy. You give them a full suite of settings for things lookaccel, sensitivy, and deadzones in and out of "aiming" mode. You know. Like the sliders we had available in earlier builds which were inexplicably removed. yes if we had options like what the move has then you work would be done. ccp wolfman is this something that can be done.
KA24DERT Not Guilty EoN. 47	Posted - 2013.05.17 05:05:00 - [218] - Quote Eggress wrote: In fact, it is EXTREMELY easy to make everyone happy. You give them a full suite of settings for things like lookaccel, sensitivity, and deadzones in and out of "aiming" mode. You know. Like the sliders we had available in earlier builds which were inexplicably removed. This is the only thing to be done with the controller settings once the triage activity to unscrew them is finished. Put the players in control of their controls.
David Spd Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.05.17 05:22:00 - [219] - Quote So in 2-3 months when CCP can be bothered to update the client for the next "release" we MIGHT get actual customzation for controls. Maybe. Probably not. Also can I just bring up again that CCP released a first-person shooter with terrible controls and broken aim-assist ON CONSOLE?! Reviewers are right to bash that fact. Who tbe hell thinks a first person shooter is ready for relase when aiming is a chore in a game that is primarily about aiming at things?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 142	Posted - 2013.05.17 05:57:00 - [220] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: *We have a fix for a bug that prevented updated MKB sensitivity settings being read by the game. This means (once fixed) that the sensitivity spikes you have been experiencing on certain settings will be gone. It also means you will be playing with the correct settings which you have not been up until this point due to the bug. We hope to get this update to you in around a week. We will continue to make further improvements after that point and we will be looking forward to getting more feedback (and acting on it) once the update is out. In the meantime we will continue internal testing and let you know when you can expect us to roll out any new updates. Cheers CCP Wolfman First off thanks for the reply and update, second this sounds pretty disheartening.. Will the tweaks for fine aiming that are being applied to the DS3 also effect the Mouse ? Because that is one of the problems us mouse users have after Uprising, is we don't have control of fine adjustments while aiming.. It swings left and right when trying to make fine movements... From what it sounds like in your above post, the fix being rolled out actually for the mouse is only to correct the 20,90 sensitivity markers.. ? This won't actually improve the fine aiming mechanics for mouse users ?

gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 34	Posted - 2013.05.17 06:35:00 - [221] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, *We found the DS3 full input acceleration was being effected by the sensitivity settings meaning higher sensitivities would reach max rotation speed faster. This should not be the case now, it was fixed in the last update. CCP Wolfman well i think it still there even with aim speed set to 20/20 i turn way to fast. it starts out slow then get super fast an i cant aim. think you could do a quick patch to make it stay slow at low numbers an get faster the higher you set the numbers. ccp this is my side of it the controls feal great an the aimer mover where i move the stick. the problem is hip fire aim for me is to fast even at low numbers like 20. an ads aim gets better the higher the number but then i cant hip fire at all. please make ads move at the same speed as hip fire.
IWhitiEI Ahrendee Mercenaries 0	Posted - 2013.05.17 06:41:00 - [222] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: DS3 user. 40/30 AA On. The new version feels just as bad as the old version to be perfectly honest. I noticed no changes whatsoever when I played today. I think I'm going to redownload the game tonight and see if it helps at all. If that doesn't work though, can't we at least get an option to use Chromosome's aiming system? Because this is teetering on the brink of unplayable and I know a lot of people feel the exact same way. Yep also mouse aiming is still being completely inconsistent at close range and the majority of time at range there is uncontrollable sway when making slight adjustments left and right.. Maybe a fix or roll back before thursday !? Yup
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 148	Posted - 2013.05.17 06:56:00 - [223] - Quote Thanks for the update, Wolfman. Based on a little more testing I did, I'm assuming the acceleration time was normalized to sensitivity 50 (pre-hotfix/patch), which I think is around 0.65 seconds?
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1175	Posted - 2013.05.17 07:50:00 - [224] - Quote Eggress wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, Since the last update weGÇÖve been happy to hear that many of you feel the DS3 has improved. We are still actively working on the controls and here is the latest news: We are currently tuning the input curve giving you a greater degree of control over fine aiming with the DS3. We will be testing this internally and if we feel it is successful we will roll it out to you as soon as we can. More news on that when we have it. We know that some of you donGÇÖt like full input acceleration on the DS3, then again some players do. ItGÇÖs tricky to make everyone happy! We will look in to adding the option to disable it in a future update but that isnGÇÖt something we can add right now. Also, to clear up any misunderstanding, full input acceleration is not something weGÇÖve added this release, it was also present in the last build. We found the DS3 full input acceleration was being effected by the sensitivity settings meaning higher sensitivities would reach max rotation speed faster. This should not be the case now, it was fixed in the last update. We have a fix for a bug that prevented updated MKB sensitivity settings being read by the game. This means (once fixed) that the sensitivity spikes you have been experiencing on certain settings will be gone. It also means you will be playing with the correct settings which you have not been up until this point due to the bug. We hope to get this update to you in around a week. We will continue to make further improvements after that point and we will be looking forward to getting more feedback (and acting on it) once the update is out. In the meantime we will continue internal testing and let you know when you can expect us to roll out any new updates. Cheers CCP Wolfman In fact, it is EXTREMELY easy to make everyone happy. You give them a full suite of settings for things like lookaccel, sensitivity, and deadzones in and out of "aiming" mode. You know. Like the sliders we had available in earlier builds which were inexplicably removed. OH **** I remember those now, aiming was brilliant in skirmish 1.0......
DJINN serious issues Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 27	Posted - 2013.05.17 13:44:00 - [225] - Quote XiBravo wrote: Mouse users and probably ds3 users would benefit from separate hip and ADS sensitivity adjustments as well This would be huge! With working controls I'd really want this option.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 1257	Posted - 2013.05.17 17:59:00 - [226] - Quote CCP ..you can't listen to the people who likes the new aiming system when they say that your update solves the problem. Hip fire is totally shot and this is as I am talking. Last build, hip fire was on point. Now, cqc battles are silly as two people are just missjng each other sometimes. I am not up to date ith my technical kjowledge, so I really can't tell you what the problem is. All I do know is that it is no good
Codename Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:03:00 - [227] - Quote This game desperately needs a better control system. People who are just joining because the game just went out of beta are going to be completely turned off of playing the game. I have my settings turned up to max and it's equivalent to the lowest setting in the CoD games, but it's worse than that. It feels like I'm turning on ice. It takes me forever to get on target, but then it's hard as hell to stay on target, it's a bad combination.
Skywalker83 GamersForChrist 15	Posted - 2013.05.18 09:51:00 - [228] - Quote Ds3 user here I would just like to see the hip fire slowed down or ads spead up per setting. The differance beetween the two are to great. Let's say my settings are 50/50. Okay my ads aim is okay but hip fire and cq are way to fast. So if I lower the settings to 20/20 now cq and hip fire are okay but ads is now way to slow. Scale them close to the same maybe slowing ads down just a little bit and allow the player to adjust there settings to reach a speed they like. as for kb/m players give them the old build back. I never thought I was at a disadvantage against a kb/m player before. There are to many other dynamics happening for them to be god like in this game.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 448	Posted - 2013.05.19 00:19:00 - [229] - Quote Damn, Wolfman must really want to go down with the ship that is this current aim system. I don't understand why its so difficult to just revert the aim to chromosome style. Does he enjoy the constant abuse? Maybe we're not abusing him enough.
TheBlob95 B GamersForChrist 12	Posted - 2013.05.19 06:08:00 - [230] - Quote Drop your screen resolution to 480p and enjoy; seems to be input lag causing the aim issues.

Bling Blaine FrontLine-Coalition 99	Posted - 2013.05.19 06:30:00 - [231] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Damn, Wolfman must really want to go down with the ship that is this current aim system. I don't understand why its so difficult to just revert the aim to chromosome style. Does he enjoy the constant abuse? Maybe we're not abusing him enough. "go down with the ship" spaceship that is and yes if it isn't fixed rather soonGäó-¬-« he should be on the hot seat.
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 34	Posted - 2013.05.19 07:28:00 - [232] - Quote Bling Blaine wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Damn, Wolfman must really want to go down with the ship that is this current aim system. I don't understand why its so difficult to just revert the aim to chromosome style. Does he enjoy the constant abuse? Maybe we're not abusing him enough. "go down with the ship" spaceship that is and yes if it isn't fixed rather soonGäó-¬-« he should be on the hot seat. let the man work on geting us the new aiming. an if you think being an ass on ccp fourms talking about lets abuse him somemore just remember this is there game an its around this time that people start acting like this that devs just say f it. so take a seat we just got some news give them tell at least tuesday. i want better aiming just as bad as you just give them some time ccp knows this is the biggest problem in this game.
WSixsmith Dust Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 2	Posted - 2013.05.19 08:28:00 - [233] - Quote Aiming should be as fluid as an instinct not something you have to fight with to get a bead on Your target
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 158	Posted - 2013.05.19 08:55:00 - [234] - Quote The overall aiming in Dust actually isn't that bad right now. One of the biggest issues though it that very small movements feel really inconsistent, and it keeps the aiming from feeling "fluid" like it should. By this I mean that sometimes I can barely move the stick and my aim will barely move, which is good because this means it's building up speed accurately. But most of the time it doesn't feel like it's accelerating from zero. It feels like it jumps from zero to some random amount of speed. I'm not sure what's causing this, as I think it could be a lot of things. It could be the aiming curve itself, it could be framerate issues, it could even be issues with the controller itself (DS3 sticks are pretty bad for shooters).
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 455	Posted - 2013.05.19 14:21:00 - [235] - Quote gabriel login wrote: Bling Blaine wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Damn, Wolfman must really want to go down with the ship that is this current aim system. I don't understand why its so difficult to just revert the aim to chromosome style. Does he enjoy the constant abuse? Maybe we're not abusing him enough. "go down with the ship" spaceship that is and yes if it isn't fixed rather soonGäó-¬-« he should be on the hot seat. let the man work on geting us the new aiming. an if you think being an ass on ccp fourms talking about lets abuse him somemore just remember this is there game an its around this time that people start acting like this that devs just say f it. so take a seat we just got some news give them tell at least tuesday. i want better aiming just as bad as you just give them some time ccp knows this is the biggest problem in this game. I don't think they do. If that kind of self-analysis was possible on CCP's end, we would never have had the Incarna debacle. Actually Incarna was a better situation. It was disgusting what they were doing, but it did not render the core game unplayable.
gabriel login Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 34	Posted - 2013.05.19 20:36:00 - [236] - Quote what is the Incarna debacle.
supersayinb Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 70	Posted - 2013.05.19 21:38:00 - [237] - Quote TheBlob95 B wrote: Drop your screen resolution to 480p and enjoy; seems to be input lag causing the aim issues. This^
Muchomojo xCosmic Voidx 15	Posted - 2013.05.19 22:20:00 - [238] - Quote TheBlob95 B wrote: Drop your screen resolution to 480p and enjoy; seems to be input lag causing the aim issues. Whilst probably a viable work around, it is ignoring the problem.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 161	Posted - 2013.05.20 00:14:00 - [239] - Quote Since the thread I made about it doesn't seem to be very popular, I'm going to post my idea here so a DEV might see it. Add acceleration to character/player movement in all directions (as there is currently none), and slightly increase strafe speeds. This will keep the game moving at the same overall speed, but it'll stop people from being able to quickly change directions, which is a big reason why aiming (especially CQC) feels so bad and is impossible to keep your reticle on anyone. If you want a more lengthy post about it, go here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79347&find=unread
WSixsmith Dust Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 2	Posted - 2013.05.20 02:24:00 - [240] - Quote Here's an idea. If the main reason we're borking tracking speed is to balance play so that keyboard / mouse players don't enjoy the advantage of being able to follow targets with the precision that their DS3 counterparts can't deliver. Perhaps we attack this beast from the opposite end and give auto-aim the ability to track the target you are aiming down sights at so you're sights stick to the target. In eve there are actual skills that you can train in gunnery that improve these very things. ie Motion prediction, trajectory analysis, Surgical Strike, and Rapid firing. Let's be honest, the reaction times and instincts of a genetically engineered super soldier enhanced by cybernetic brain implants and a fusion powered exoskeleton would be far superior to anything we can even comprehend. Weapon systems made today can track moving targets at a rate of 720 degrees per second. Why would powersuits 20,000 years in the future be any less? So why don't we set it up so that when we aim down sights the soldier puts the weapon on target and follows the target as you would do in such a situation. It would drastically reduce danceoffs, and squad based tactics would become even more important because everyone would be able to drop you if you went at them head on. Flanking would become important. Cover would be necessary and weapon effective ranges would seriously matter. What's more important is it would make the input choice of either kb/m or ds3 almost completely irrelevant. The only time tracking should be compromised is when you are hit by eWar such as tracking disruptors, and stasis webs. The suits themselves should have been engineered to respond promptly given the weapons they are using. A heavy suit would be engineered to have the strength and precision to spin an HMG like a baton. Maybe eWar would affect suits with a larger sig radius more drastically than smaller suits and that would be the balancing factor.



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