Right now orbitals are free and can easily destroy everything but high level armor tanks. This is due to the combination of their high damage, huge radius, long duration, and short warning.

Something needs to give, and I think a longer delay between use and landing would help. Because right now it's pointless to use anything above a sica, and that's counter-intuitive with the SP investment I have made.

Personally I think it should be:

Call-in

5 sec

Warning

5 sec

Hits

That way they would take a lot more skill or teamwork to be used effectively, instead of free kills.

They are meant to do everything you just ccomplained about...

They should be feared and scary things that come in and end the kitten out of anything in their sphere of effect.

The warbarge precision strikes are weak when you compare them to actual eve obs.

So no nerf to the OB in my opinion space death working as intended.

They're really the only thing that can destroy a fully fitted tank other than a fitting designed to deal with them, which I nor many other people do not own.

I like the idea of the warning, maybe a visual warning, so that tank drivers and anyone in the blast radius would have to pay attention to their surrroundings.

They are a little ridicilous, I was killed indoors with one, yet if I stand under a small little overhang on a certain map (Not sure which one) I'm completely protected!

If there is nowhere to run because you have them surrounded then you will still get the kill. Right now they are the hand of God reaching anywhere on the map for a free "I WIN".

Right now orbitals are free and can easily destroy everything but high level armor tanks. This is due to the combination of their high damage, huge radius, long duration, and short warning.

Something needs to give, and I think a longer delay between use and landing would help. Because right now it's pointless to use anything above a sica, and that's counter-intuitive with the SP investment I have made.

Personally I think it should be:

Call-in

5 sec

Warning

5 sec

Hits

That way they would take a lot more skill or teamwork to be used effectively, instead of free kills.

Edit: it's in general because I want to get some preliminary opinions before posting a full suggestion in the feedback subforum.

what kind of warning we talking about? A vortex and lightning storm occurring in the sky above, or that annoying woman saying in her bionic voice "Warning, Orbital Strike detected"....I prefer the first.

I can earn an orbital by myself in about 60% of the skirmishes I play.....no they are not hard to get really. You would see them alot more if the squad leader would actually pay attention to them. I think a 5 second delay from the warning would be a good idea. I mean heck you call in a strike it takes just a bit for the button to be pressed and the strike to hit the ground. I think 5 seconds is plenty of time if you are aware of your surroundings you have a chance (slight) to get to cover.

There already is a delay or at least supposed to be giving even more warning makes them useless.

Because people especially scout suits would just start running leaving only heavies and logis to die in them. Ive seen tanks escape them. Who knew to immediately hit the boost when the noise plays ( that big bwwwwoooonnnnngggg) that happens before the strike hits. Hell I've even outrun one or two.

Actually I know a few corps that have survived a single warbarge OBS against them.

That dude Mavado has survived OBS. I have seen that dude with numbers on his name survive an OBS. Some other dude also survived OBS. Many more where that came from.

I agree with noc on the OB system being to strong. I made a thread about this last build too.

What has the OB system done It has forced most tankers out of skirmish because it is not fun anymore. All it takes is a random group of people to hit the total and you gain insta death to everything on the map. It is not just hard hitting on tanks I have gotten 14 kills off them before almost a full team because they have ridiculous range.

For shield tanks your ability to survive one does not happen until you are in a Sagaris and even then it is a 50/50 chance. Armor tanks are more likely to make it through because they have alot more EHP.

They either need to have a decent warning system otherwise they need to drop the damage down by alot.

I actually think space orbitals are more balanced then what we have now.

People are lying to themselves if they think OBs are hard to earn. They are very easy and simple thing 90% of the time when I am squad lead with randoms on my alt I make it to OB status. And gain basically it gives me another free 10kills or easy tank kill.

Right now orbitals are free and can easily destroy everything but high level armor tanks. This is due to the combination of their high damage, huge radius, long duration, and short warning.

Something needs to give, and I think a longer delay between use and landing would help. Because right now it's pointless to use anything above a sica, and that's counter-intuitive with the SP investment I have made.

Personally I think it should be:

Call-in

5 sec

Warning

5 sec

Hits

That way they would take a lot more skill or teamwork to be used effectively, instead of free kills.

Edit: it's in general because I want to get some preliminary opinions before posting a full suggestion in the feedback subforum.

Sorry but just because you don't want to lose your tank doesn't mean the system is broken. I'm not saying that the system couldn't use some fine tuning, but what I am saying is that it is a great counter for HAV's that doesn't need fixing because you just don't like it.

You sir have no concept of counterplay. There is no skill involved yet they are instant hard counters. Fail game design.

You sir have no concept of counterplay. There is no skill involved yet they are instant hard counters. Fail game design.

You sir, have no sense of risk/reward.

You want to call in that expensive tank to run a train on the enemy, they just might make you eat the bill.

Either go on foot, or stop whining.

Imperfect tears, so salty.

You sir, have no sense of risk/reward.

You want to call in that expensive tank to run a train on the enemy, they just might make you eat the bill.

Either go on foot, or stop whining.

Imperfect tears, so salty.

Risk - 1M+ ISK can be eliminated by any squad with a well placed OB
Reward - 200k to 300k ISK for going 30-0 and no one brings serious AV or OB's

See the imbalance yet?

No.

Do the orbital strikes team kill? i hope they do. that way there more of a risk for using them.

Then there is no reasoning with you. Risking 1M ISK that is incredibly vulnerable to something that is awarded for free every match for at most an extra 100k isk over just running around in militia gear or even AFKing is not a proper risk/reward tradeoff.

Then there is no reasoning with you. Risking 1M ISK that is incredibly vulnerable to something that is awarded for free every match for at most an extra 100k isk over just running around in militia gear or even AFKing is not a proper risk/reward tradeoff.

So stop calling in 1M ISK gear in pub matches?

1M is advanced level gear. Maybe I don't want to be forced to run militia just to not go broke? Especially since I have a higher survival rate than the average.

This big horn from the sky before an orbital strike? Why? Where does it come from? What purpose does it serve but to warn?

I don't think there shoudl be a warning at all for Orbitals... Targeting shouldn't make a sound. The first and last sound you should here is the sky tearing apart as death descends from the sky to obliterate you.

This big horn from the sky before an orbital strike? Why? Where does it come from? What purpose does it serve but to warn? EVE-side Orbitals can already be delayed due to a not-so quick finger on the Shoot Button, or even an afk pilot (yes we've had this when attempting out-of-corp support.) And when he fired, the timing was so wrong and he hit nothing, didn't help us achieve anything by doing so.

So I will vote the opposite, and say we should have NO warning before Orbital Strikes. Just the sound of the ammunition splitting the atmosphere the moment before it strikes.

sounds like a personal problem.

Seriously, why would you call in a 1M asset into a match that can only gain you 200k-300k ISK?

I honestly don't understand your reasoning here. It's almost like you think you're playing a completed game, and that instant battles will be the heart of the gameplay for people with 1M tanks that they can burn through.

Furthermore, your false dichotomy of "1M asset tank or Militia gear" is at best intellectually dishonest, and at worst just plain old trolling.

To get a functional tank under the 200k ISK mark requires a militia hull and BPO fittings.

Contrary to some peoples' beliefs, this is a game, and games are meant to be enjoyable for both parties involved. Instantly dying with no preventative measures because the other team reached an arbitrary point value is a poorly designed mechanic.

A 5 second delay (after the warning) would make OB completely useless

I'm not saying dont have the delay, but have no warning. As to the 'arbitrary' Point value.. is that any different from COD whereby getting a kill streak of a certain number entitles you to an airstrike? or to call in a hellcopter that will continue to get kilsl for you for a time?

Preventative measures? Like a bunker? A Shield? An insta-dome of impentrable force? Or just getting under cover (does work on most maps.)

I'm not saying dont have the delay, but have no warning. As to the 'arbitrary' Point value.. is that any different from COD whereby getting a kill streak of a certain number entitles you to an airstrike? or to call in a hellcopter that will continue to get kilsl for you for a time?

How many 'support' items in any FPS are not controlled by such a point system?

We at least get a no-point system for vehicles.

As a Heavy, anytime i hear the "sound", i know im dead. Im just too fat and slow. Atleast scouts,assault, LAVs and HAVs have a chance to escape, if theyre near the perimeter of the blast.
HOWEVER, i dont agree with giving a long warning. It would defeat the purpose of the strike, since most enemies would have enough time to escape.
Besides, currently HAVs can still escape. You just cant let yourself sit still. Ive seen plenty of HAVs that stay on the move and escape strikes that are directed at them.

Orbitals should respect friendly fire- problem solved.

A few days ago, by coordinating with bobthe843cakeman, I achieved superoverkill by calling a precision strike on a single sniper.
It was necessary.

Prepare to have your mind blown, but CoD kill streaks aren't instant effects.

The stealth bomber, the closest thing to an OB, has a significant delay and you can see it coming if you are paying attention.

Right now orbitals are free and can easily destroy everything but high level armor tanks. This is due to the combination of their high damage, huge radius, long duration, and short warning.

Something needs to give, and I think a longer delay between use and landing would help. Because right now it's pointless to use anything above a sica, and that's counter-intuitive with the SP investment I have made.

Personally I think it should be:

Call-in

5 sec

Warning

5 sec

Hits

That way they would take a lot more skill or teamwork to be used effectively, instead of free kills.

Edit: it's in general because I want to get some preliminary opinions before posting a full suggestion in the feedback subforum.

what kind of warning we talking about? A vortex and lightning storm occurring in the sky above, or that annoying woman saying in her bionic voice "Warning, Orbital Strike detected"....I prefer the first.

How long would this purposed warning be?

And I don't know.....this seems to me that it would make Orbitals very easy to avoid, thus making them ineffective.

Right now orbitals are free and can easily destroy everything but high level armor tanks. This is due to the combination of their high damage, huge radius, long duration, and short warning.

Something needs to give, and I think a longer delay between use and landing would help. Because right now it's pointless to use anything above a sica, and that's counter-intuitive with the SP investment I have made.

Personally I think it should be:

Call-in

5 sec

Warning

5 sec

Hits

That way they would take a lot more skill or teamwork to be used effectively, instead of free kills.

Edit: it's in general because I want to get some preliminary opinions before posting a full suggestion in the feedback subforum.

Yeah, it's also VERY audible. All the airstrikes and stuff show up on the radar before they ever fly over, and the choppers and AC130s and stuff have to fly into the zone before they're within shooting range. There's significantly more of a warning time for CoD kill streaks than there is for the Dust OB.

Orbitals shouldn't respect friendly fire- problem solved.

A few days ago, by coordinating with bobthe843cakeman, I achieved superoverkill by calling a precision strike on a single sniper.
It was necessary.

sounds like a personal problem.

Seriously, why would you call in a 1M asset into a match that can only gain you 200k-300k ISK?

I honestly don't understand your reasoning here. It's almost like you think you're playing a completed game, and that instant battles will be the heart of the gameplay for people with 1M tanks that they can burn through.

Furthermore, your false dichotomy of "1M asset tank or Militia gear" is at best intellectually dishonest, and at worst just plain old trolling.

You guys do realise there is a non-audible warning? The Large targetting lasers appear ~5 seconds before the strike so 'paying attention' can save you from an Orbital Strike.

You guys do realise there is a non-audible warning? The Large targetting lasers appear ~5 seconds before the strike so 'paying attention' can save you from an Orbital Strike.

Stealth Bombers, airstrikes yes, they aren't instant hit, but they aren't firing from space at super velocity. They are 'flying in' engine sounds. etc. You also 'see them' incoming on your radar because they are there to detect using said radar. DUST OBs don't come across space. I'm sure when they introduce Air-Strikes or something similar from EVE-side (if they do) they will show up on radar before the strike and make noise.

It's not 5 secs, it's more like 2, and that's the problem. It's a negligible amount of time.

I think OB's (from the Wabarge) should only be called in when you get enough WP's and have a warning. The lady saying "Enemy Orbital Bombardment imminent" then 3 - 5 seconds later boom. Maybe even a red circle on your HUD / Minimap where it will strike. The warning is generated when the enemy warbarge starts targeting / preparing to fire.

I think OS's (from EVE Players) should be available at any time. To allow for targeting you use an item (equipment, gun, I dunno) to laze the target (Like the Ghost in Starcraft). Lazing the target takes 15 - 20 seconds and allows the orbital to be fired. If a target is not lazed when the strike happens then the orbital is random all over the map (like sporadic artillery) and kills friend and foe alike.

Giving people more time to avoid said strike would make it useless...

And I will again refute with facts: People still managed to kill infantry and vehicles when we had a longer warning for OBs. They weren't useless then, it won't make them useless now.

People are equating "requires more skill to get kills" as useless.

Lol ur to kind i got all those points from blowing up 2 tanks tht could not shoot a heavy jumping in front of their faces charging a forge gun and even having to reload it. and then u got the rest from repping me from those god aweful snipers. he deserved it killing me like 2 times.

Again, I get where it is frustrating for a tanker but there are a butt load of irritants for infantry including your tank. I do think the tanks were nerf'd a bit much without proper corp battle testing but a 10 second warning for a precision? Really?

That was just a stupid day for tanks everywhere.
Was I still in a squad with you when the other team called in, and lost, at least 5 HAVs? Whoever the squad's forge gunner was ended up swimming in WP by the end of the battle.

It's not a 10 sec warning. What he proposed is a 5 sec stealth delay that enemies don't see, followed by a 5 sec visible warning they are aware of.

No. Especially not on Eve Player Strikes .. You complain about million dollar tanks . Eve Players are risking at least 10 mill fitted destroyers to make those strikes. Making their job even less rewarding than it already currently is a bad deal.

[quote=Gelan Corbaine] Also 2500 wps is not hard to get esspecially with a full squad of cooperation..

I can get around half that solo and I'm barely an alright player.

Except they aren't free especially against you imperfects.

2500 wp to get one is hard against a really good team unless you are also really good. I am average my corpmates much better than me.

Instant I win ehhh not so much i have survived them in mlt tanks with a decent fit.

They are giant strikes from a ship firing multiple blasts designed to kill giant spaceships. Your in a tiny tank...

And right now they are only small turrets firing them... wait till they can be fired from a dread or a titan.

The damage is meant to be huge... andnonly going to get big andnonce the maps get bigger? Their damage will seem even less consequential. But if someone drops one on only your tank... they wasted an objectiv clearing weapon on you andnonly you. Feelhonored.

I have no problems with OB being the hand of god. After all, it is the bombardment of the area with weapons far larger than any we see in DUST.

Its fine as it is. Hardly surprising that tank users are objecting to a "weapon" made specifically for heavy armor. Besides, a moving tank can usually survive an OB, if you stop, well that's on you.

Honestly, are you guys for real? 10 seconds before you call it down is pure bullsh*t. No offense, but the idea of an OB is to clear out an area quick, not alert enemies for 5 seconds that it's on its way. By that logic, a person can be up to 50 m away by the time the OB arrives, depending on speed mods. Unless they buff the OB to the Tactical Hybrid levels, I disagree completely.

Honestly, are you guys for real? 10 seconds before you call it down is pure bullsh*t. No offense, but the idea of an OB is to clear out an area quick, not alert enemies for 5 seconds that it's on its way. By that logic, a person can be up to 50 m away by the time the OB arrives, depending on speed mods. Unless they buff the OB to the Tactical Hybrid levels, I disagree completely.

So via corp battles atm when you call in an OB and have an eve player do it,

is it instant?

Just curious haven't tried it myself.

So via corp battles atm when you call in an OB and have an eve player do it,

is it instant?

Just curious haven't tried it myself.

EDIT

Also, is this the plan to keep OB's as are at anytime for the entire future or

eventually have it so you MUST have an eve player to call it in?

if the later it would make more sense, since the eve player is therefore risking isk as well.

no it's not eve player has to choose the strike and such. but it doesn't warn the enemy til it fires like the warbages do.

now what about my edit I made?

because if there had to be an eve ship in orbit for the OB, then the opposing team would know this and either kill the enemy ship or atleast let us know they have one.

I just hope warbarge isn't around to stay.

now what about my edit I made?

because if there had to be an eve ship in orbit for the OB, then the opposing team would know this and either kill the enemy ship or atleast let us know they have one.

I just hope warbarge isn't around to stay.

Its fine as it is. Hardly surprising that tank users are objecting to a "weapon" made specifically for heavy armor. Besides, a moving tank can usually survive an OB, if you stop, well that's on you.

I can agree with making the OB requirements harder to get. Increase the total amount of WPs needed to acquire an OB especially if we get larger squad numbers but everything else is fine.

I don't see the reason to give your enemies any type of warning and the amount of time it takes to call one, I don't see a problem with. Why shouldn't it be near instant? And once we get EVE players more involved, I'm all for the human error of calling in strikes.

They should also be FF in any game mode, to call it in on your friends should have some type of negative fallback.

It doesn't have to be a nerf, that was merely one option of many. Another is a capturable structure that prevents orbitals from landing within their radius (think AAA from MAG). A special hardner for tanks that significantly reduces damage from orbitals perhaps? Increasing the delay requires no new code though can can be done now.

Why not try it, it is beta after all?

A number of us have opposed the practically instant OB ever since it was changed to this. It's ridiculous to have such unstoppable killing power for such little effort. OBs aren't some "special event" that I think CCP has described them as, they're a simple participation reward that people gain access to just from playing in a squad.

Their being problematic is just evident when in the face of HAVs; HAVs being the ultimate price tag risk that are very easily, if not unavoidably, nullified by an OB that is hard to not get by people playing as a squad. For the OB to be such a hard counter vs everything with no counter of its own is pretty absurd.

The argument that "you shouldn't have stopped moving, so it's your own fault it killed you" is absolutely ludicrous. When I have an OB ready and there's a tank on the field, I just sit on the map ready to call it in, following the tank around until it stops. It doesn't require that the tank sit there idle for minutes at a time, just any pause and the OB goes down. Success rate in killing tanks this way so far: 100%. Driving a tank at 100% speed 100% of the time is unreasonable to ask of players in order to keep their assets.

The imps are good and as such have no right imho to whine about dieing

This is single-handedly one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum.

Really? Thank you!

But in all reality you dont get to go 30-1 and whine because someone hit you with the most powerful weapon in the game in stead of using it to take an objective.

If there is nowhere to run because you have them surrounded then you will still get the kill. Right now they are the hand of God reaching anywhere on the map for a free "I WIN".

Feel free to continue to be biased about feedback purely because of who said it, though.

Right now orbitals are free and can easily destroy everything but high level armor tanks. This is due to the combination of their high damage, huge radius, long duration, and short warning.

Something needs to give, and I think a longer delay between use and landing would help. Because right now it's pointless to use anything above a sica, and that's counter-intuitive with the SP investment I have made.

Personally I think it should be:

Call-in

5 sec

Warning

5 sec

Hits

That way they would take a lot more skill or teamwork to be used effectively, instead of free kills.

Edit: it's in general because I want to get some preliminary opinions before posting a full suggestion in the feedback subforum.

" Boo who I hide in the games most OP armored vehicles all day in pubs and cry when one gets blown up"

Stop crying everyone has the ability to use them so if you dont get one thats you or your squads own fault. Honestly you shouldnt be losing that much isk in a pub match anyway.

Maybe you should get gud and dodge the strike.... Ive seen good tankers do it

How does the ability for everyone to use them act as a counter to one being called in on you?

How does the ability for everyone to use them act as a counter to one being called in on you?

If you lost a tank to one. Then guess what? it's your fault you decided to sit still, and let it hit you. You should have been moving, they aren't hard to dodge with a tank. You were caught with your pants down, and were given A swift kick in the balls from behind. You deserves the death. Now Get off these forums, and go complain to your corp mates that all share your girly little feelings.

'isk balance' ?

Fine, let me call one it at any time for 100k

With a proper cooldown this is still better than the current system.

It doesn't need a counter...
It is part of war you die sometimes and there isn't much u can do about it
That is why you don't use it if u cant afford to lose it

With a proper cooldown this is still better than the current system.

That ont matter when everyone is filthy rich.

"100k? pfft, that wont matter when I have 2.5 billion in my wallet."

Tanks are priced to require surviving at least 3 matches to break even. How is a killstreak that you will encounter at least 4 times over those three matches which has a 90% kill rate (I've never failed to kill with them, but apparently you can get lucky) balanced with that cost? The issue is not that OBs are strong. The issue is the cheap kill that smacks of CoD. But even Call of Duty does it better, since you can use perks, equipment, and/or cover to counter, hide, or avoid the killstreaks. Not so in DUST.

Ok then everyone with a few million isk should be able to call in a tank and have that instant win for 3 matches?

The OB consideration is just the thing you can do nothing about. You still have to deal with AV grenades, forges, installations, swarms, collision damage, flux grenades and other vehicles. Keeping a tank alive through 3 skirmishes in a row is a challenge of luck due to OBs. We aren't even touching on the skill of V vs AV.

here's an idea DONT USE UR EXPENSIVE TANK IN A PUB MATCH u could reserve it for Corp battles and use something else
like I said before don't use it it u cant afford to lose it

So we should be okay with effectively deleting even more content from the game?

So we should be okay with effectively deleting even more content from the game?

You are trolls of the highest order, there is a difference between being able to afford something and debating if the cost was justified.

If it effects you isk wise to the point where you make a forum post wanting to nerf giant bombs that are supposed to pwn everything then you obviously can not offord it therefore you should not run said item in a pub match where it willow most likely get destroyed. Such items should be saved for fights that matter like Corp battles or if you feel lucky. Not on a match to match basis

Maybe someday the brinkmanship will end and we can actually discuss the mechanic in question instead of petty mudslinging.

You can not have a free "I win" button with zero counters when assets are permalost. It is poor gameplay design. A nerf is not the only way to correct the imbalance of risk vs reward, but to deny it exists is petty, nieve, or both.

Is this really about cost? Or is it because OB's can kill you while all you can do is watch helplessly? I feel the exact same way when I spawn right in front of a bunch of reds y'know.

It's the same effect, different mechanic and consequences. It still boils down to semi-random destruction of assets in a way no player could prevent.

Right now orbitals are free and can easily destroy everything but high level armor tanks. This is due to the combination of their high damage, huge radius, long duration, and short warning.

Something needs to give, and I think a longer delay between use and landing would help. Because right now it's pointless to use anything above a sica, and that's counter-intuitive with the SP investment I have made.

Personally I think it should be:

Call-in

5 sec

Warning

5 sec

Hits

That way they would take a lot more skill or teamwork to be used effectively, instead of free kills.

Edit: it's in general because I want to get some preliminary opinions before posting a full suggestion in the feedback subforum.

I'd like to point out where this comes from for those of you that don't understand what Noc is talking about.

Last week, Noc and I were on opposing teams. I think I was in a group of three and we were playing on Manus Peak and Noc is hill sniping with his tank. We tried to swarm him, forge him, you name it, all he did was back up, rebuild his shields and kept tank sniping.
The rest of his group ate through the blue dots on our team and we were having a pretty rough go of it, got cloned.

But in the last 30 seconds of the match, we got an oribtal and dropped it right on his head. He went 15-1, my orbital being his only death.

That's what Noc is actually whining about. The fact that he can't sit on a hill and camp without fear of retribution. This has nothing to do with balance, or other players. It's his own selfish agenda.

Instead of doing what good tankers do e.g.; look at team scores to judge if an orbital is coming, keep moving, or spec to survive the pub match orbital (which I've seen happen), he'd rather nerf the orbital strike.

So there you have, the true motivation of this thread. Which should end any further discussion save the whining and crying that is bound to come from the OP and his supporters.

Good day.

I agree with noc on the OB system being to strong. I made a thread about this last build too.

What has the OB system done It has forced most tankers out of skirmish because it is not fun anymore. All it takes is a random group of people to hit the total and you gain insta death to everything on the map. It is not just hard hitting on tanks I have gotten 14 kills off them before almost a full team because they have ridiculous range.

For shield tanks your ability to survive one does not happen until you are in a Sagaris and even then it is a 50/50 chance. Armor tanks are more likely to make it through because they have alot more EHP.

They either need to have a decent warning system otherwise they need to drop the damage down by alot.

I actually think space orbitals are more balanced then what we have now.

People are lying to themselves if they think OBs are hard to earn. They are very easy and simple thing 90% of the time when I am squad lead with randoms on my alt I make it to OB status. And gain basically it gives me another free 10kills or easy tank kill.

I'd like to point out where this comes from for those of you that don't understand what Noc is talking about.

Last week, Noc and I were on opposing teams. I think I was in a group of three and we were playing on Manus Peak and Noc is hill sniping with his tank. We tried to swarm him, forge him, you name it, all he did was back up, rebuild his shields and kept tank sniping.
The rest of his group ate through the blue dots on our team and we were having a pretty rough go of it, got cloned.

But in the last 30 seconds of the match, we got an oribtal and dropped it right on his head. He went 15-1, my orbital being his only death.

That's what Noc is actually whining about. The fact that he can't sit on a hill and camp without fear of retribution. This has nothing to do with balance, or other players. It's his own selfish agenda.

Instead of doing what good tankers do e.g.; look at team scores to judge if an orbital is coming, keep moving, or spec to survive the pub match orbital (which I've seen happen), he'd rather nerf the orbital strike.

So there you have, the true motivation of this thread. Which should end any further discussion save the whining and crying that is bound to come from the OP and his supporters.

Good day.

as i told noc on irc
disagree
seen a gunnlogi tank it not once but a 2nd time

Also confirming i tank OBs like a boss

making the delay longer makes it pointless

most of the tanks being called in pubs are **** fit tanks

I'd like to point out where this comes from for those of you that don't understand what Noc is talking about.

Last week, Noc and I were on opposing teams. I think I was in a group of three and we were playing on Manus Peak and Noc is hill sniping with his tank. We tried to swarm him, forge him, you name it, all he did was back up, rebuild his shields and kept tank sniping.
The rest of his group ate through the blue dots on our team and we were having a pretty rough go of it, got cloned.

But in the last 30 seconds of the match, we got an oribtal and dropped it right on his head. He went 15-1, my orbital being his only death.

That's what Noc is actually whining about. The fact that he can't sit on a hill and camp without fear of retribution. This has nothing to do with balance, or other players. It's his own selfish agenda.

Instead of doing what good tankers do e.g.; look at team scores to judge if an orbital is coming, keep moving, or spec to survive the pub match orbital (which I've seen happen), he'd rather nerf the orbital strike.

So there you have, the true motivation of this thread. Which should end any further discussion save the whining and crying that is bound to come from the OP and his supporters.

Good day.

Let's just ignore talking about the veracity of your anecdote and discuss the scenario as YOU claimed.

A tank is on the field

You fail to kill it using AV

You are awarded an OB

???

Tank dies

What, pray tell, is the proper missing step to change the outcome?

You are an idiot
They changed tactics and killed you stop crying

You make rocks look smart.
No one is crying, I'm just ripping apart the people who refuse to discuss an issue just because they perceive it doesn't affect them personally, negatively.

Especially since you have have a teammate rush an objective during the orbital and take it while the enemies are dying to the orbital that does not affect your allies.

OBS definitely need some work. I disagree with Cael that it would take the length of time he stated. I think that the timeframe of selecting the location and then the warning beacon .......5 seconds later first strike hits. This is the way MAG did it and these strikes would still get you an easy 8-10 kills and even more if you place it correctly. What this would do is cause the leader to have to think before placing the orbital right now its OH A BUNCH OF RED DOTS...click button....profit. It would be OH a bunch of red dots do I put it right on them....right behind them....or right in front of them? Each has its own benefit. RIght behind them means you push them fowards and possibly into an ambush of your teammates. Right on top of them means if they arent paying attention you kill them all. Right in front of them you are hoping they arent paying attention and run right into it.....or you are trying to cut them off for a short time from going into that area. All of these are valid tactics but right now its not needed. Only tactic needed with OBS is to click in the middle of the group of red dots and watch them all die. Its easy peasy......and you get 2-3 of those per game if your even halfway decent.

Semper you might want to look at my posts. I said spoken warning then 5 seconds later the ob hits. So it is the same time frame as yours except you gain a visual warning. Noc mentioned a 5 second delay then warning then a 5 second delay to impact. I just want a 5 second warning so people can tactically positon themself or prepare so orbitals are not easy objective win buttons or the only forum of AV a team needs.

sorry I must have confused you two. Nevertheless i believe that the OP initial thoughts of a total 10 second delay (with only a 5 second warning for the reds) is just too much. A 5 second visible warning before the strike begins is enough and will still make the strike useful. As stated MAG proved this without a doubt you can have a delay and strike are just as effective just not the I PWN ALL button.

nothing wrong with OB's. HTFU.

if you for from an OB in a HAV then it's your own fault for being stationary.

This game doesn't have enough tactical assets. CCP needs to add more tactical assets rather than adding in stupid trees for people to hide behind.

I never knew Imperfects were such hardcore whiners. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

You've effectively just painted a big red target that says "CALL IN YOUR ORBITAL ON ME PLZ" on every tanker in your corp. I'm sure getting attention was 80% of the intent of posting the thread, judging by every other thread you people make, so congrats on that bit.

I took out a Gunloggi with a Soma with a militia blaster and three twinchargers the other day. Speedy tanks are OP, nerf speed mods.

Me and a corp mate took out a Gunloggi with 3 standard flux grenades and a single shot from an assault forge gun last night. Teamwork is OP, nerf teamwork.

In fact, why should anyone not in a tank get any sort of weapons at all? Infantry should spawn in an open field, unable to move, with no weapons, single-file in front of tank turrets. It's not fair that a tank costs so much isk and has to actually drive around or rotate the turret to get kills, right Impotents... I mean Imperfects? Right?

nothing wrong with OB's. HTFU.

if you for from an OB in a HAV then it's your own fault for being stationary.

SMH, really its hard tallking to people with the sense of a rock. Nothing wrong with the OB, nothing wrong with this, i do well in this game so its okay it must be okay why.

The whole if it aint broke don't fix it mentality works with clocks not video games.

Im not saying OB's are broken but in game and a forum in which EVERYONE and their MOTHER has stated there is a HARD COUNTER FOR EVERYTHING.

Where is the hard counter for OB's. Let me put it another way, if these were EVE sized OB's would you still say its fine?

You honestly thinking obtaining 2500 WP is a difficult task. What game are you playing. In what world is earning an avg of 625 WP per squad member difficult. Really tell me the difficulty in earning it. Oh i know its my fault i should be pulling up the score screen when i have a suspicion and use a menu to determine if im likely to be facing a strike(meh i generally know when they are coming already that gut instinct is there if you are halfway decent at paying attention).



Point is OB's have no hard counter. There is no ability to block OB's from striking like in MAG. There is no detection alert or warning system, heck there is little more than a sound that penetrate the atmosphere. What the OB doesn't need to warm up its just ready to go?


Look it really is quite simple the warning right now is audio and 1-2seconds later the first strike occurs. Now that may make sense with the regards to atomospheric penetration of an energy based weapon nearing the speed of light but it does little for game play balance and fun.

Im a fan of 3-5 seconds because it is still quick strike but require a bit more preplanning with the strike rather than a set and forget type of call in which means that the SL needs to get to a safe spot to call it in or the squad needs to protect him(you know tactics and the like). Add to this it would be nice to see the sky darken or brighten before an incoming attack after all its a huge massive field of damage dropping down on us how in the world isn't it affecting the atmospheric conditions of the planet?

All of these visual and audio cues take time to code in, a delay and increased notification time from the audio alert can be patched. They did it already CCP added a bit more delay in chromosome but hardly enough to consider it substantial. But the delay and warning on the top right HUD is there now, simply just not long enough to allow for any meaningful reaction even when at the edge of a strike(though rumor has it the best thing is to be in the center and stand completely still).

Anyway point is i dont mean to be condescending but really people need to get over the tags and understand the reason these topics are started by us in not cause of QQ but we play a crapton and test a crapton. We know what we're talking about and aren't going to keep the blinders on and say the game is just fine and it is us who need to adapt. We adapt plenty and accept the things that are the result of our mistakes you're just not around in game to hear us admit it.

So rather than biasing yourself the second you see its an IMP post why dont we all put on our big boy pants and actually discuss the topic rather than just blindly say OB's are fine or at least give me/us a valid counter argument.

Let me try my best to encourage everyone to separate this from Imperfects VS community.

If I skilled into tanks, the OB presents a specific problem for me. The almost instant heavy damage on a single place I view as broken. As has been mentioned, though not specifically enough, the OB is too simple to achieve. Now you tell me that I can only practice with my miltia or cheap versions of what I skill in to. I say this in the most humble way possible... it may be the reason the IMPs have great success in Corp matches is because we use Corp gear often. I run prototype gear in Pubs with the end game to understand my equipment and improve on it and my game play accordingly. Not to go 30 and 0. Those are meaningless numbers. Some people stroke themselves but not all of us. Then in a Corp match against great teams like the bunnies I know where I have to be to make my insanely specific rolled laser work like the light saber everyone thinks it is. Some bunnies will attest to this. Humbly... we should be able to practice with high end gear. We can afford to lose it and do, but if there is a broke mechanic let us fix it.
...

Community, can you honestly say after my squad attempts many AV attacks on a great tanker a reasonable option is too use WP earned to call a strike to do the job for me? I honestly gain 3 to 4 OB's on accident in a skirmish game when running with a squad of IMPS. If you honest answer is yes then I can not say much more.

Some thoughts on a fix? If you think it needs it.
A controlled letter acts as a shield against OBs...safe zone feature that Noc mentioned like AAA in MAG is genius.
A warning that we all deem reasonable.
A module specific to OB hardening.
A higher WP number top earn.
Weaker and stronger versions of OB according to WP earned...5000 gives type A,7500 gives type B.

Remember tanks can cost upwards of millions. You bring in your super tank and rock my squad...I run and call multiple OB's and kill it? Seems off to me. Remember WP to OB is currently very easy.
...

I'll keep this as succinct as possible.
I like the thought of either:
1. a feature like mortar battery/AAA like in MAG. (requiring you to capture/destroy an asset before you can drop strikes)
OR
2. adjusting the WP requirement. Perhaps keeping the current WP (2500, if I'm not mistaken) for a "weaker" strike. Still fatal to infantry, but only capable of heavily damaging an HAV and then a "stronger" OB than can kill EVERYTHING. (perhaps requiring 5000WP)

That said, I still think that the tankers are complaining because they don't want to get their HAVs blown up, more so than the guise of "game balance" Look, we all can lose expensive fits in battle. They may seem like "cheap" deaths, or unfair, but they happen to all of us. A good tanker, can go 10 matches without losing a tank (especially in pubs). They may have gone a dozen matches, but they get a "cheap" death by orbital. **** happens.

Expensive infantry fits, cost much less, but happen more often. A really good infantry player, may be accostumed to going 30-2, or 40-3, etc etc. They may have a match where they go 20-6. This would be a "bad" match for them. More costly, because enemy team had 3 HAVs on the map, perhaps the player died because they go for objectives and were RE'd a couple times. Perhaps the were orbitaled. Point is, they will occasionally lose more in a match than they expect.

Same result... **** happens.

I really don't think the OB is much of a "problem" as it is.

So if you guys are this bent out of shape over the dinky little precision strikes we have now, what are you going to say when Dread's start bombarding entire districts?

I'm done arguing with you. But It is pretty obvious that you are just another imperfect crying that they got killed. OBS are not that easy to get. The most I have gotten is 3 with a 4 man squad of my corps best players. They do not have a huge AOE and if you fit your tank correctly you will be able to survive one. We both know if you were an assault drop suit user you would be QQing that tanks were OP or heavies or whatever killed you. Just because you are an imperfect does not mean you shouldnt die.
Im out bye bye all

What sort of warning do the infantry get for your tank sitting on a hill sniping them?

You're a nobody who appears to see nothing beyond a tag out of spite and envy. You can't be done with something you never started. You ranted sure, but nowhere beyond "I don't care since it doesn't hurt me" did you present anything approaching an argument.

The problem is there has not been one good argument made against the arguments made regarding the OBS. All arguments against the topic has been essentially HTFU or "I dont care cause it doesnt cost me much if I die from it". What arguments do you guys have showing that the OBS should stay exactly as they are? Currently they are a free, extremely powerful, easy to obtain, no warning, or indication of incoming (1 second between the light/sound and the first strike is hardly more then a look your screwed light) strike that will basically eliminate virtually everything in its AOE.

Our proposal is that this does not seem right and there should be a time delay between the warning light and the first strike of greater duration then a second. Currently 5 seconds seems like it would be enough time to at least try to get out of the area but still fast enough that if you arent on the ball your dead (even then you might die anyway). If CCP comes back and says actually strikes are working exactly as we wanted them to as we want them to eliminate everything in the area and not be hard to obtain in a match. Well then the argument is over CCP is designing the game they want to see and if that is what they want we cant argue with it other than to as they say HTFU or leave. However until CCP actually says that this is up for debate. Personally I would like someone to put forth a better argument then the red herrings or HTFU arguments that abound on this thread. I am actually very open to others opinions and if you have valid points I could possibly change my mind.........so convince me.

The problem is there has not been one good argument made against the arguments made regarding the OBS. All arguments against the topic has been essentially HTFU or "I dont care cause it doesnt cost me much if I die from it". What arguments do you guys have showing that the OBS should stay exactly as they are? Currently they are a free, extremely powerful, easy to obtain, no warning, or indication of incoming (1 second between the light/sound and the first strike is hardly more then a look your screwed light) strike that will basically eliminate virtually everything in its AOE.

Our proposal is that this does not seem right and there should be a time delay between the warning light and the first strike of greater duration then a second. Currently 5 seconds seems like it would be enough time to at least try to get out of the area but still fast enough that if you arent on the ball your dead (even then you might die anyway). If CCP comes back and says actually strikes are working exactly as we wanted them to as we want them to eliminate everything in the area and not be hard to obtain in a match. Well then the argument is over CCP is designing the game they want to see and if that is what they want we cant argue with it other than to as they say HTFU or leave. However until CCP actually says that this is up for debate. Personally I would like someone to put forth a better argument then the red herrings or HTFU arguments that abound on this thread. I am actually very open to others opinions and if you have valid points I could possibly change my mind.........so convince me.

The problem is there has not been one good argument made against the arguments made regarding the OBS. All arguments against the topic has been essentially HTFU or "I dont care cause it doesnt cost me much if I die from it". What arguments do you guys have showing that the OBS should stay exactly as they are? Currently they are a free, extremely powerful, easy to obtain, no warning, or indication of incoming (1 second between the light/sound and the first strike is hardly more then a look your screwed light) strike that will basically eliminate virtually everything in its AOE.

Our proposal is that this does not seem right and there should be a time delay between the warning light and the first strike of greater duration then a second. Currently 5 seconds seems like it would be enough time to at least try to get out of the area but still fast enough that if you arent on the ball your dead (even then you might die anyway). If CCP comes back and says actually strikes are working exactly as we wanted them to as we want them to eliminate everything in the area and not be hard to obtain in a match. Well then the argument is over CCP is designing the game they want to see and if that is what they want we cant argue with it other than to as they say HTFU or leave. However until CCP actually says that this is up for debate. Personally I would like someone to put forth a better argument then the red herrings or HTFU arguments that abound on this thread. I am actually very open to others opinions and if you have valid points I could possibly change my mind.........so convince me.

And that gets back to my point:

What mission does CCP see for the OB?

It's a great DUST/EVE connection, and it fulfills that part very well.

But beyond that, what is it supposed to be for? Is it supposed to be "fair" or not? If so, just what constitutes fair?

Is it supposed to be "fair" or not? If so, just what constitutes fair?

In a game, an element that you have no skill-based way to protect yourself from, is clearly broken.

god you drew me back...
I in no way envy you ROFL the thought is hilarious
and I repeatedly told you a way to counter the OB (fit tank properly) which you completely ignored for your ignorant comments about how Its soooo op.
Believe me obs do hurt me
i have died plenty of times to them.
but guess what?
i can use them too
So cool your **** and think before you speak IMP

I recall discussion many weeks back about tanks and OB's where CCP suggested that there would be ways to pin tanks down for destruction by OB's. That suggests CCP considers the warning to be good enough for tanks to get out from under them if they are paying attention. That would put them in the "fair warning" to run away or get under cover category.

We can debate whether or not that is true, and it probably depends upon just where you parked. I've personally seen a tank escape from Sniper's Peak by driving off the edge and falling down the mountain side, repping all the way down. It then drove around the back and up to continue its reign of terror.